This German rocket company is building rocket engines with car parts!
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- čas přidán 8. 05. 2024
- This is Dr Stefan Brieschenk from RFA explaining how their unique approach to building rockets using off the shelf automotive components will help make them competitive.
Watch the full video and tour, it's fascinating! - • New European rockets! ...
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Can you also call AAA for being stuck in orbit ?
Aaa: Where is your location?
You: LEO, over.
"LEO what? over"
"over you, yes. over"
AAA: which law enforcement officer would that be?
Copy that, what’s your orbit height? We can start scheduling you a orbital rendezvous here shortly.
no need to worry about that, AAA is the biggest scam in cars, good luck getting them to even pick you up on the road outside one of their own towing companies. I tried to use them 4 different times and every single time I called for a tow they had some excuse why they couldnt do it
Time to activate the rat signal and call the Fuel Rats. Embarassing, but it's life.
I want to hang out with this guy after work in the pub.
He'll probalb undercut you.
You want a date with him? 😂
As soon as he picked up that ECU connector I really started getting what he was saying. Me, a regular dude on the street recognized that part out of my Toyota.
that doesnt mean this is a good idea lmao. Vertically integrated companies like rocket lab and spacex will just make the real rocket graded stuff for dirt cheap anyways. These space startups are all a joke. Nothing new other than "cheap".
This connector selection is precisely why they’re doomed. The actual qualities of automotive components don’t come close to basic industrial design specifications like marine or mining, let alone aviation. Aerospace requirements didn’t just come out of the cartoons, they were written in blood. Automotive connectors often rely on plated contact surfaces measured in microns designed for a small number of insertion cycles spring forces that depend on the metallurgical deformation properties of Hawaiian linguine.
I am not arguing against the concept, only the execution.
@@donlindell1994Wow…. this has really upset you.
@@donlindell1994 well they arent launching humans lol
@@biopsiesbeanieboos55pathetic way to adress objective criticism.
Just dont call it a V3.
Good one 😂 or v2
Dammit you beat me to the punch
Their creation looks like a hot mess! smh
Nailed it 😂
BTW, if you wonder why... let me explain you the joke:
It's not just about an "V3 piston engine", but about the first modern rocket/missile... the nazi "V2".
That's the real joke.
Building rocket engines without the need for proprietary manufacturing and custom parts is actually genius, they’re engine probably costs less than half of what other aerospace startups are able to make.
It's good for low volume prototypes, but at mass scale it starts to become inefficient and riskier.
Until they have to scale the size of the rocket to remain competitive
Also how efficient is that on fuel? I'd imagine not very good
@@miguellopez3392 totally agree
He says 10x less but that might be a figure of speech
SpaceX actually started out using car wash valves to control their fuel lines.
What kind of car wash has mass flows of hundreds of kgs per second?
@@jakobfriedrich5117lots of them
Well... Like the engineers I work with always say... You can theorize as much as you want, the test will decide if you are right or wrong...
The concept is very good.
I would probably use it for disposable rockets.
For reusable rocket, the requirements will be a bit higher...
That's called a Delphi connector. Very cool.
Has a German company ever undercut anyone on price for anything?
I just hope the cars he is talking about aren't Audi's. :eek:
Long time ago when Germans where runing them
The Michael Scott Rocket Company.
Well, Porsche Taycan costs the same as Tesla Model S in Europe.
That perspective of German cars being expensive is bit overblown due to import costs to US, and also the reason US cars are seen as overpriced POS over here, as they cost the same but have subpar quality and performance for the price.
@@NameName-ll2yx Australian luxury car tax is the worst..
There is a reason feed system and engines are space qualified. That said, you could still use careful COTS parts for some prototyping. Depends on mission.
This is exactly the type of outfit Europe needs to be cloning several of to invigorate Europe’s space business- which is currently almost missing in action- instead of subsidizing Arianespace and its Usual Suspects by billions. - Dave Huntsman
He sounds European tho?
But how will the EU launder money and pay off their cronies without Arianespace and partners?
The only reason that aerospace quality components require such high quality, precision and thus cost, is because that is what is required to ensure high enough chances that the mission is a success. No one wants a mission to fail and people to die or infrastructure to have a rocket land on it because the builders cheaped out on a connector or an actuator or didn't listen to the engineers screaming about how the o-rings are too cold.
Most of the time you'll probably be fine. But when it comes to life, limb or property, all those aerospace grade components become comparatively cheap.
I'm guessing they never plan to launch humans, only satellites of some sort. You can get quality and affordability; the high price comes from accountability. SpaceX is proof of that. They make everything in-house, and since they are accountable to themselves, they are making quality parts fast and "cheap" since they don't need to keep a record of who is accountable should something fail they only owe themselves. You can test parts for uniformity and quality pretty easily nowadays. But the problem with not using custom parts is when you are trying to milk every last drop of cost, performance, and weight out of something, you're just not going to do it with off-the-shelf components.
Yes! More rockets! It is such an _amazing_ time to be alive with all these new up and coming rocket companies. I hope they all make it and become wildly successful. What a great design plan too. Just use relatively inexpensive parts that are mass produced that have survived rigorous testing already and send it. Rock on guys, I hope you make millions.
I agree! Imagine being a kid in the late 60s saying the same thing about the Apollo program. Then suddenly it's the 70s and Congress cuts NASA budget and all dreams of space travel / moonbase dies with the stroke of a pen
Punching holes in the atmosphere is not a good thing.
@@craigb8228 Yeah, but neither is completely destroying the atmosphere either. Every single launch by every rocket company in the world does less damage to the atmosphere in a full year than China does to it in one day. Maybe you should go bitch about the problem to the people who are the biggest contributors instead of the people who are actively trying to make the world a better place and potentially colonize another planet in hopes of possibly saving the human race one day. At least you're doing your part because you don't even own a car so thanks, I guess? 😂
@@craigb8228 stay on earth and have some flat earthers also not a good thing.
@@darkmode_memes You can't assume that we can live outside this environment when we can't even fix what's inside our atmosphere. The first step would be to stop breaking it.
I wish them the best. We need more players in the space race.
There's a reason why companies are aerospace certified. Hopefully those manufacturers have that certification
I love this sort of approach. Most people have no clue how unnecessarily expensive certain parts can be when they're proprietary. And I mean _unnecessarily_ expensive. These contractors are used to being paid any insane cost they put on the bill. It's almost a pyramid scheme and I'm not exaggerating.
Using off-the-shelf parts to bypass these broken industries is an awesome idea. You can source pre-existing parts, then just be creative with solving your goal based on that.
Can't wait to see where this goes!
Jungs, ihr habt genau den richtigen Ansatz. 😊
THAT FIRST TEN SECONDS WAS LIKE A TECH SPOOF VIDEO!! 😂😂😂 And then dude smashes it out of the park with a run down of what his team have built.
dude fr. i was gonna say why does this feel like a skit?
Thinking outside the box is what this is called. Good for you. 😊
Nice to see multiple approaches to getting a rocket in to orbit! Sometimes the craziest Ideas work out for the best. Out of the box thinking. ❤
The Michael Scott Rocket Company.
Undercutting the competitors.
As long as it is not the Madman Muntz Rocket Company.
"we make rockets just like cars"
You mean unreliable?
Yeah, the famous unreliability of german cars. You are on something here. Keep on digging.
That fake blazer at the beginning of the video sold it for me.
USA: we invented V12
Germany : we invented V2
Sir, I just want to say that your mechanical sculpture is the best art I've seen in a long time. Please stay an artist, no mather how angry you might get one day...
2 issues here;
A big reliance on many suppliers and additional weight that needs to be carried up.
Yeah try dealing with suppliers dropling out. Also, guaranteed reliabity?
Someone who knows what he is talking about
You rely on different suppliers, but for very common parts, instead of specialized ones. If one supplier drops, you choose another one, test the new part, and you are ready to go, 2 days later.
About weight, that has to be confirmed, but super high specs stuff is not so lightweight. To rely on one big supplier for custom parts can be risky and has a cost.
Nearly every rocket company has to rely on suppliers in a lot of ways. But weight. Yeah, that would be an interesting info, how the weight is affected by that approach.
meet the requirement and get the cost down - nice accelerate
I work in the aerospace industry and I'm not kidding when I tell you that the same part built in the same factory will cost 10x more because of an aerospace certification
So, their strategy is to remove all the aerospace level quality requirements?
It´s the other way around.
Car quality requirements have (almost) coughed up with aerospace quality requirements.
not exactly, they remove the custom manufactoring at any level.
@@iwh7 Going to the moon with all custom parts is scary. It is better to have a known tried and true part like he talked about in detail.
Awesome that you visit RFA!! I really appreciate it, that you really look outside america for rocket engineering:)!!
There is something extra in the water in Germany. High quality H2O bro.
Looks convincing if its for a small rocket.
Historically, off the shelf stock parts build mechanisms for application specific devices usually (always?) fail to meet expectations.
The companies that make the parts he's pointing out could probably cheaply make project specific ones just for the rocket however.
I dunno, it depends on the size of the rocket and how it's going to be used.
I'm just saying, off the shelf projects like this rarely work. There's potential savings in up front engineering and design costs that get eaten up with losses in efficiency because the tolerances don't match the exact performance profile, there's unexpected troubleshooting that gets costly if you have to start asking companies to evaluate failures for parts they make which are not being used as intended, then get your insurer on board.
You can have it cheap or you can have it good, cheap and good not so much.
Completely agree, rocket tolerances are incredibly tight but on your point about these companies being able to cheaply make a special run at the required tolerances, I wouldn't count on it
"*We would love to go back to the moon in a nano-secind..but we lost that technology and it's a very painful process to build it back.*"
the old way was unsustainable anyways so it kind of had to happen that we started over.
This is very cool Tim!
Looking forward to watching this video.
Oceangate was trying to undercut the competition too, that ended well!
"undercut everyone on price" ... "straight out of a race car"
Usually rocket companies would design that part from scratch. Astronomically more expensive than luxury car part already in production.
I'm talking about the "race car" component he mentioned. Usually race car components are similarly designed from scratch, I guess they save in the NRE.
I guess the first conpany they talked about was probably Purem or Eberspächer
And it's very common for airbag systems to operate in space you know, in case of a space car crash
Yeah, a race to the bottom is always gonna turn out great. What could possibly go wrong when the VC dries up and they start asking you when you'll turn a profit?
Just like Star Wars, ships make from car parts.
Lil von Braun back at it again
that is what i named mine too
Ah, so they are essentially going the SpaceX route. Kudos to them, they need some good competition.
Stockton Rush Jnr
Are these the guys who just used parafin wax as fuel?
I remember a certain submarine that kinda sounded the same way..
Sounds exactly like the ocean gate ceo talking about the studf he got from jome depot
This is giving off star trek first encounter vibes.
I don't see a turbo encabulator on there...how did you reduce side fumbling and sinusoidal deplaneration?
Air bag signals aren't super reliable. They are the same amount of reliable as the turn indicators. Now the redundant brake system, that's super reliable.
You’re not going to undercut anyone the way you are 😂 you’ll just become a supplier
Kleenex Rocket: We make them cheap so we can toss them after One use. Space X: We make them cheap and we reuse them over and over. Guess who is gonna under cut who.
MacGyver would be proud. Rich Rebuilds might try this too! 🤓
I understand the importance of considering factors like temperature, vibration resistance, and weight when it comes to rocket components. This is similar to why I wouldn't interchange parts between my plane and a car.
And yet there are planes flying with car motors...
@@3gunslingers Had the same though.
Well, China just became the Worlds #1 Rocket Manufacturer
How much? I’d like two for my scooter.
You had me until ‘airbags are super reliable’
TAKATA airbags
This is they way we build the future, not with custom parts but using stuff off the shelf across many application.
i disagree
This is sustainable only as long as the thousands of store bought parts are readily available. Its a very smart idea and i wish them luck.
As they are produced for cars. I cant think of parts with a better availability then car parts.
He's probably going to have to eat that "undercut anyone on price" statement.
How much will the Certification Documents add to the cost ?
Oh great. Germans are building rockets again.
It's time to go back to the moon
yep, a german SS officer was the director of nasa for a long time
Best of luck, the reason those aerospace parts are so expensive is not the cost of materials or production, it is the QA/QC testing and assurance of extremely low failure rate.
Same part, same design same materials with a one in a million chance of failure vs a one in a billion chance of failure is many times the price.
Cool, how many have launched?
They re aiming for first start this year - in case, your question wasnt meant in a toxic way.
There is something called Quality Assurance.
Rocket made from car parts are OK until something goes wrong and issue can’t be traced back. Look at Boeing.
Pre-existing disciplines and lateral manufacturing moves is how Russia started its space program in the fifties and sixties. It’s engineers came from aviation and mechanical engineering backgrounds because there is a lot of interdisciplinary overlap that can translate into rockets.
One wonder which disciplines would be needed to design, test, and engineer electro-gravitic technologies for use in space.
How significant is the cost of parts to the cost of an orbital class rocket?
They control airbag signals so must be super reliable you say?
When was the last time you tested an airbag under the pressure and heat of atmospheric re-entry?
I'm sure they are reliable in a car crash, but there's more to going to space than taking a trip to Tesco's!
There’s a reason why we use rocket parts for rockets and car parts for cars
Like this design wow
They can have bigger payloads because the engine is so much cheaper, there is no need for controlled landings.
Those reusable engines probably cost as much to refurbish as these engines using recycled wreaks.
How reliable is that hair gel tho?
thats not gel.....its grease much cheaper
Building rocket engines out of parts not even close to rated for the application seems like a bad idea.
Its got to cut costs ......maybe just a fraction of what American ericket engine's!
Very cool
So...all these parts are designed to handle high sustained g loads? Temperature extremes?
Das ist wunderbar
Rocket parts are built they way they are to be strong enough to survive while being as light as possible... most other manufacturing doesn't have those requirements.
Cars have this requirement 😊
I feel that the rocket industry has higher standards thac car industry. Anyway, the important part in rocket industry now is to reuse the rocket. Whoever is not able will not survive in the long term.@@berndgrabitz
Completely agree
@@berndgrabitz No they do not haha
@@berndgrabitzcars don’t have to flow cryogenic liquids or experience a steep temperature gradient
They should try a moon rover next…. Guessing someone can build one for under a Billion that will work just fine.
I like this, seems to be a unique take rather than the 15 or so companies 3D printing components with carbon composite
Wow,this is interesting 🤯 They are making rocket engines with Normal components of cars
So, no vertical integration?
RFA ftw!
Think i'll apply
the connector is probably not the one item I'd cut corners on. Not sure if the plastic latch is going to be sufficient with the vibe loads, the profile is different between car and rocket engine
But you are assuming people are on the rockets. If it is just cargo, the rate of failure can be way higher. Also the plan is to make many small engines so if one fails, no big deal, it still makes it to orbit.
@@superchuck3259 No, I didn't state anything that assumes people are on the rockets. It's as simple as first principles, the vibration profile and the temperatures are not comparable between near a rocket engines thrust chamber and a car ECU. If this was used on the rocket avionics near the near nose, it'd be another story, but this is for the engine controller located on the engine itself. Not a smart design choice, think about the thickness of plating on the pins, whether the latch stays intact, the contact resistance over temp/vibe, emi shielding (lack thereof), and others. The ECU connector at scale is probably around 5-10 bucks, a latching circular aerospace connector for this application is a couple hundred. If you are risking a million+ payload over 4-5K savings, then it brings you to a class of risk that turns off certain customers (non-defense or gov agency) who aren't going to provide you the economics to sustain launch business. A better trade is to just reduce the need for the number of contacts so that you have fewer expensive connectors.
I get a lot of Astra vibes here. Doesn't matter if it's cargo only, if you fail launches, no one wants to load cargo on your rocket. The only play here is RFA is europe's only domestic new space launch provider.
You look at parts as spec parameters
So…… Oceangate but in space? Spacegate? Rocketgate?
This guy can rocket
The problem with this approach is that you are beholden to your suppliers. If say one car part making company goes under, you can't fly your rocket. This places a LOT of trust in the companies they hire to actually make products that they need on time, on budget, and to actually deliver. I am pessimistic that they will be able to make it as a company. They might make it to orbit, but vertical integration is the future of rocket companies.
How are they not worrying about outgasing, and degradation due to pressure changes and radiation. This seems like a system which could have a lot of failure points and costs that can easily balloon well passed conventional systems
It's a rocket. 90% of the rocket (including the 7 engines of the first stage) will spend less than 60 minutes into space
It's a rocket. 90% of its mass (including the 7 engines of the first stage) will spend less than 60 minutes into space.
Watch the full video, he explain, the parts are the same but material are their own specs. No nylon for example.
Super Video
I thought this was parody at first till I saw who posted it
So when ford as a recall do these engines also?
Materials matter in space. Thermally, degredation, radiation etc. I get that we need to make stuff cheaper! I pray these gents prove them all wrong!
Elon Musk = Grindlewald
This Guy = Dumbledore
Maybe. Some things. But -200 to +400F with a 10g vibration holding a 1/10,000 hour fail rate is a different world than driving for a gallon of milk
He's wearing the Pedo-van 3000 safety glasses 😂😂
Brilliant
how about weight optimization?
Means nothing till it flys
Terrorists: yes yes write this down