THE OTHER GUYS AMERI-BARRA (4200 ATLAS) DYNO PREP
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- IS THE LOW-BUCK, JUNKYARD 4200 SIX CYLINDER ALIVE? WILL IT RUN? CHECK OUT THIS VIDEO ON WHAT IT TAKES TO PREP A CRUSTY JUNKYARD MOTOR FOR DYNO TESTING AND THE PROCEDURE FOR FINDING OUT IF THE MOTOR IS A RUNNER! WITH PLENTY OF HEAD FLOW AND AMPLE DISPLACEMENT, IS THE 4200 ATLAS A SERIOUS COMPETITOR FOR THE 2JZ TOYOTA OR THE FORD BARRA? ONLY 1 WAY TO FIND OUT.
Head bolt torque specs: Tighten until fastener snaps, turn backwards 10 degrees.
You dont want them to snap. They're torque to yield bolts, so torque it until you feel it yield and stop 🤣 next guys problem
@@moneyshot2239 I don't think you grasp the fine art of sarcasm
Strip it and back off half a turn!
@@ryanm3749 I do. Mine was too haha
@@ryanm3749 either way cross threaded is better than not threaded
Ive never seen Richard so enthusiastic about breaking every single head bolt !!!
BuzzLOLOL, actually using an impact can pull the threads out of the Aluminum block with the bolts. I have personally witnessed it happen on more than one occasion. I was not the one using the impact and did not recommend using it, but was the person who had to bear the bad news to the boss.
Breaking the bolts loose first with a breaker takes the bulk of the tension off the threads so they don't get torn up as bad.
One of the engines was an LS3 from a ProCharged 'Vette.
I think maybe try to tighten it Then go to pull them out after the first two broke
@@BuzzLOLOL these heads use Torque to yield bolts and are notorious for Breaking when you break them lose. From discussions I have had the best way to ensure good head bolt /stud retention in a built engine is to helicoil the block and use head studs so you don't pull out the threads
What a design. Snaps off all the bolts as normal routine.
Breaking a head-bolt is kinda like sleeping with a pregnant woman. Once it's screwed, you're not gonna make it any more screwed. You're still gonna end up in the same place anyway.
"Bolt-breaker" Wednesday, with Dr. Holder!
I swear I flinched on most of those, lol
I got a good laugh at the "yes winning" 🤣
So did I 😄 this is , pretty funny 😄
Loving the channel Richard, I apologize in advance if this comes off as arrogant but as a guy who does most of the engine work at a wrecking yard in Canada, who has done hundreds of compression tests on various engines that have been sitting around for a few years, and who has torn apart a few of these 4200’s, it’s very common for an engine that’s been sitting to have low compression on the first try in some cylinders, and in my experience a leak down will usually reveal the rings to be the culprit.
I’ve had engines with some cylinders that won’t even move the needle on the compression gauge turn out to be fine after leaving some penetrating fluid in the cylinder for a few hours and a few further attempts at a compression test to remove the effect of the oil itself.
Unless those cylinders being low is a function of the valves leaking which with the intake and exhaust manifolds removed should be obvious as it is both audible and visible, knowing what it’s like to pull the head off one of these I would’ve at least done a leak down on those cylinders, and if it is the rings repeated compression tests after that, it works for me most of the time.
Also if you read this comment before pulling the timing cover, the oil pump and pickup tube are integral to it, and the oil pan needs to be removed before the timing cover will come off. Keep up the great work.
thats one great BREAKER bar, worked every time 👌
I will enjoy seeing if you can get close to an Aussie Barra.
They are the best 6cyl in line gas engines.
It's inspiring to see that he can stay positive through all those head bolts. I don't think I would have kept my composure.
Now this is the kind of magical experience I’m used to having working on my old f 150.
What I learned in this video the head bolts suck but Richard is a Winner for sure !!!
Wow! a perfect score on head bolt removal!
That’s why if (I swap this engine) I think head studs are worth it.
ARP, not junk
@@shadowopsairman1583 Ford Barra, not junk
Did somebody say it was a sick cylinder engine, and Rich heard him wrong?
It was both cringe-worthy and hilarious to watch him loosening the the head bolts. I laughed even more at every SNAP!
This is way better than network TV.
As long as you have the head off, you might as well go the rest of the way and put ring gap in it. We all know you want to.
" we'll add fresh oil and a filter" flashes back to making 600hp on the K24 with unknown milage oil that shipped in the motor from Japan haha
Nice! I'm happy to see more and more people are becoming interested in this engine. Perhaps it can rise to challenge the 2JZ, RB, Barra, and N54.
No
Interesting about the TTY bolts, but not the engine.
Doesn't fit in anything except trucks. And maybe some fishing boats.
@@2lotusman851I have one in a g35
I tore apart a blown up one about a year ago to see the damage (thrown rod) went 3 for 3 breaking head bolts and gave up taking the head off. Determined cause of failure to be lack of maintenance. Dirtiest engine I’ve ever seen. Sold my 04 envoy with 327k miles original engine running strong this spring. Didn’t burn a drop of oil, had a cold knock but went away when warm. Long live the 4200!
My God! Never have I seen all headbolts break off when loosening. Way too weak, even by torque-to-yield standards.
Those experts did you wrong. When the bolts start to loosen up, you go back and torque them. You do that a couple of times. Then you may loosen them up without breaking the bolts. That's the technique that should be used to loosen those terrible Ford two-piece spark plugs from the 3-valve V8s.
Glad to see the Atlas back. Can't wait to see what you will do with it.
I still love the intro with the rave music.
Start and run it. That will clean out the rust and free sticky rings.
Most of those exhaust valves have burrowed up the ports.
Those head bolts have all broken off, now you have to get them out!! That will not happen!
It seems torque to yeild bolts cause grief. I have seen it several times. 1500 Mazda engine, Half the bolts broke and the head would not come off. Engine went to scrap, Ford OHC 6 was similar. About 4 hours to get the head off and then remove the rusted in bolts. Luckily they broke off above the deck. Left overnight with CRC and a few lumps with a knockometer and they screwed out.
Never with old Holden, Chev 6s and 8s. Even with 1/4 of bolt rusted off the bottom. And I have done 100s of those.
I was beginning to wonder if those head bolts were left hand threads. Never seen so many break in one engine before.
They're not. There is a procedure to removing them that doesn't include just cranking them out.
@@DaneSaysStuff Didn't the old mopar guy in Canada say he works all the bolts back n forth and never breaks any?
@@DaneSaysStuff Whats the speshul majik Shabbylet way of removing fuckin BOLTS!!!!?!?!???!?!??!?!??!????
I’ve never not used an impact for this but I’m sure there is a good reason here.....
@@slowstang88 Either A. perform the removal at operating temp, or B. Heat the bolts up.
I went for a re- ring and gap on mine, but NPR stronger pistons and rings are not too expensive. Can’t wait for your custom cam grind and valvetrain specs for the 4200.
I'm a machinist and have done a few valve jobs/resurface on these heads and always thought they looked like they could make some good power. Really cool to see these tests!
Bruh, your information is bodacious! Thank you for providing it! Thank you for the entertainment value as well !
Glad you enjoyed it!
See your issue with the head bolts was that you were using a breaker bar, if you used a turning bar you'd have removed them properly
Cant wait to see more of the 4200 content love it
Hope you love extracting broken head bolts
I remember the first time I took a set of those head bolts off I sounded like a gun going off LOL... But the funny thing was I could use a reverse drill bit and as soon as you start drilling into them they would just pop right out like there was no loctite on the threads or anything... It was like the problem wasn't the threads but the actual bolt or something I never figured out why they broke
They are torque to yield bolts and are designed to yeild before you pull out the block threads head and main caps both use tty bolts. A lot of times after you break them they willl come out with a easy out or wear possible a set of locking pliers
At least you have imperial size sockets and not rounding off those silly bolt heads with 14mm
Maaaaaaaan…. If there was ever an application for studs rather than torque to yield bolts, this all aluminum gem is it. 😂
Finally thank you Richard doing gods work , cant waitvto see that torque curve under boost
I'm amazed how well you can handle all the broken bolts. I would'a been 20-30 Fbombs by the time the head came off.
Yep. When I took apart a 4200 about 12 years ago, I didn't know a thing about its head bolt removal problem, so I just went straight ahead. I broke 4 bolts, and cussed up a blue streak on every one. Now I don't feel so bad. Richard broke every one.
Agreed I would have lost it that breaker bar would have been all up in that aluminum block 😂
I have the Trailblazer SS now but I had that 4.2 in my old LS with a shift kit a custom intake and a tune. That beast of a straight six with chirp the rear tires as well as screech the front belt and shift so hard from first to second it almost seemed like it was faster than my SS. Well just in first after that first shift it was a slouch. Kind of like the SS it just does a little bit better on the highway. That motor can handle some abuse though that's one thing about it.
I remember when these things came out and we were replacing them left and right because the cylinder liners slid down in the bore and allowed the rings to expand and then it threw rings all the way out of the throttle body.
Haha I’ve always shock loaded by putting tension on the bolt then tapping the bar with a hammer.
Perfect score lol
My wife had a TrailBlazer with the 4200 and it was okay. Just not enough for the heavy vehicle. I always thought it would be better in a small sedan
Oh man!! Broke every bolt!!! I'm on the edge of my couch with suspense!!!!!
I bet those breaking bolts were loud. I had a 'Strength Of Materials' course decades ago and it involved stretching samples of steel until they snap. Samples were maybe 1/4" by 1/4", when they let go it makes you jump!
First there was the stove bolt six, now we have the snap bolt six.
never seen a motor before that breaks EVERY head bolt.
Sounds like it's a good case for ARP studs going back together
I had really good luck with an old Ford Ranger 3.0l motor. Didn't snap a single head bolt when I changed the head gaskets.
Although that might have been a reason why I had to change the gaskets in the first place.
I’m glad he’s doing this but dang I’d be questioning my decisions about right now
I have worked on many 4.2, 3.7,3.5 engines and they are not any fun to deal with when in the vehicle when you have to replace the head . Sometimes all the bolts break or just half if your lucky.
Heck of a project now. I would have started it even with the low compression. Often the hydro lifters have just collapsed and/or there is smutz on the valve stems and seats that will kind of heal itself. At the very least it would have wormed the block to reduce the chance of breaking all the bolts. In any case, can't wait to see it run and thanks for all the great content
bad valves and seats
"Yes". You win!!! You're my new hero!!!
There is a air hammer attachment that accepts a socket for shocking fasteners. I think Meyhew makes them and all the tool trucks rebrand and it.
I would sometimes put oil down the spark plug hole and see if the compression improves. If it does, it's it's rings. If it doesn't, its the head.
Be careful though, that cylinder will spray oil when you move to the next plug and turn the motor over.
I know it sounds crazy but I've been a mechanic forever and used to have to do multiple of those head gasket jobs and the way to do it is hit it with a hammer and then hit it with a big powerful impact gun!!! not kidding that's the only way they come out without breaking
@Isaac it's the only hope you have put a good 1/2 inch socket on the bolt hit it with about a 2 lb sledge Hammer decently hard and then just hit it with the big heavy duty impact gun. Plus don't be so scared even when they break they stick out of the block 3in and you can easily remove them when the head comes off and you have to replace them anyways
I really enjoy watching this episode thank you, can’t wait for the out come
Richard, could you do a little breakdown on the block and heads themselves? Things like weight, dimensions, bracing on the block/design. Open or closed deck, etc. These engines are rarely talked about but I've always been interested. Personally I think a destroyed 3.8L with good cams, rods, etc and a proper turbocharger would be a torquey screamer! Say a garret gt30-1000 or similar and 9500 rpm! That'll do!
Watching you snap those bolts… my sarcastic side was saying “JB weld does not make an effective thread Locker.”
felt like they were welded
I have a 2005 4.2 TrailBlazer, I had the engine lowered and 12 cylinder head bolts broke.
There is a technique to remove the screws from the cylinder head.
Richard needs an ARP sponsorship. "Winning!" 😂
they are always there for me
You I’ve been a tech a long time. I was laughing my ass off how enthusiastic he was about it. I’d be throwing the breaker bar after the 2nd one 🤣.
God I love it when the head bolts break off in the block. The joy of removing the bolt shanks.🤯
It was at this moment ol mate was thinking damn I wish I put another ls v8 on this dyno.... 😅😂
Next time, try running the engine through two or three heating and cooing cycles before pulling the head. It might have given the valves a chance to seat and the rings to break free. It might at least have helped free up the head bolts. An impact driver might help too.
If you have ever rebuilt an atlas you would know that getting these skinny head bolts out without breaking at least half of the head bolts is impossible! Great motor though.
I remember the Hot Rod Garage video where Lucky and Tony were messing with those. They had the same head bolt problem, but I don't think they succeeded in breaking every single one! Lol! Anyway, they haven't followed up on that episode and I'm excited to see what those engines will do. I've actually been curious about the Jeep 4.0 and it's power potential.
Horsepower monster did a vid on one built by Newcomer Racing. It’s insane set the 4.0 record. Worth a watch.
Really nice and modern combustion chamber shape and efficient valve position (minimal shrouding).
Can't believe how tight those bolts were... :(
You have made a strong case for compression testing junkyard motors in their native setting if nothing else. Your enthusiasm for this motor is amusing.
EARS Richard! I cringed every time knowing just how loud that is. Like others have said, I wonder if a few seconds with an air hammer would do a better job at loosening them up? Also, try an electric impact instead of a breaker. I love my M18 Fuel impact. Expensive but worth it. BTW, the good thing is that now that the load is off, with a screw extractor, they will thread right out.
For those of you that have never experienced it, that CRACK sound is like hitting a large nut with an aluminum baseball bat at full force. PAINFUL very high pitched sound. Same goes for that God awful creaking sound when it is just barely turning with massive metal-on-metal friction. First time I ever removed a head, I learned that is a situation where hearing protection is a must. Hearing aids are stupid expensive, earmuffs are cheap.
I'm curious if the head bolts would come out with an impact gun, or if they would just snap off instantly.
Dam I had hopes for a American big 6 that could be hot rodded. Im not to confident in that motor after watching all those head bolts breaking!
Ok. So watching this cause I was thinking about turbo and 4200 in a s10 blazer. But after seeing this I'm having second thoughts
Hell yeah brother about time
Head bolts n manifold bolts I loosen alittle tighten alittle loosen tighten work the bolt back n forth had good luck trying it
Very impressive you can remain so cheerful despite things going a bit sideways. A lesson I for one can learn from.
I would have been cursing in Klingon after half that many bolts breaking! LOL 😂
Hope things go better on the upcoming videos!
👍🏼👍🏼
He does have a great attitude. That said, having trouble when shooting a CZcams video means good content. Plus he deals with so many engines that he is probably a bit numb to things.
It is a different story when a dude in his garage has spent the last of his budget on an engine for his project car and things go wrong. They guy in his garage may be at the limits of his budget and the limits of his knowledge or tools.
there was plenty of Klingon-I needed some Romulan ale
Good ole razor blade rebuild. Maybe lap the valves and do ring gaps too. Might as well go for the big bang since you are this far into it.
I'm stoked man, huge fan of the '06+ atlas! I have one in the driveway and depending on your results, will have another built up for install into a '76 k5 Jimmy on 38"s for something a bit different
Lunch time with Richard! Great vid, thanks for sharing all your testing!
Oh yeah been waiting for this video! I was not expecting that! Haha
Can't wait to see what you get out of the Atlas!!!
You ever do compression tests with a pressure transducer and a lab scope? It tells you a lot about an engine. You can have compression but not know if valves are opening or not. Leak down is pretty good but the pressure transducer is much quicker, same speed and setup as a compression test. And same thing, its possible to also overlook a valve staying shut with a leak down if you dont pull the valve cover for it.
I love that positive attitude though
Iv been wanting to swap something with one of these engines for a long time. Can't wait to see what it makes with boost
Miata!
Whup on UTGs car.
Of course its about 5 inched taller than a slant 6........
Git yer Sawzall out.
I’ve got a 86 F150 with the 4.9. Hoping to import a Barra to swap😁
The best part of your vids is by far the 90's techno lmao
Dude.I have never laughed on a motor teardown. Well im lying. Ive laughed when folks get mad,curse and throw tools when crap goes crooked. "YES"!!! FKN HILLARIOUS!!! I hope this is not the norm on that particular engine. Ive always thought about building on. Now...not so sure.
There is a Hot Rod Garage episode where Lucky and Tony were working on one. They fought with those as well, but they were unsuccessful in breaking them all
maybe shouda used the bolt buster magnetic heater. like a torch with out the flame. plug it in and push the button.
Man I've heard of steel seizing into aluminum but that's a little ridiculous you think GM would put anti-seize on them
I went with an 06 to replace the oil starved 4.2 in our bravada. No clue how many miles are on that engine but she runs strong to this day!
Probably should have used a Hand Hammer Impact for the head bolts to shock them out. I’ve never seen one of those break a bolt
these break
I'm sure you'd make a good comedian . Your enthusiasm rocks 🎸 😎 🦾
Should of used a good impact like a Milwaukee to get head bolts out. They don't call it a breaker bar for nothing!
Idk if I'm lucky or the 6s are worse but I've taken 3 four bangers and 2 fives apart and haven't broken a single head bolt. Stripped one pretty bad, but still came out after hammering it back in. I also don't do the jerking style loosening, I slowly load it up.
Also heard the Northstar engines have interchangeable rockers that are a bit beefier
@@joshdrobny93 interesting, that's bad ass.
Thats the fun of auto junk yards .. sometimes you get gold other times you get shyt.
Wow you would think Ford designed that engine with all those broken bolts but I think I would have switched to the impact gun to see if there was a better result!
How about kroil or some other powerful penetrating oil? To stop the head bolts from breaking.
Yup you're going to be busy for sure good luck 👍
great series ... unlike that its different then all the ls stuff becuase we all k ow the ls engines make power but this would be a cool alternative
All these broken head bolts gives me ptsd from pulling heads on my Volvo 5 cylinders. You're just thinking "All they had to do was use anti seize" after spending 10 hours extracting them.
Aren’t these notorious for burning valves
How come you didn't back those bolts out where the impact gun? The impact on what a shock them right out of the holes and backed them out.
If that was a running engine, what works is run it to operating temp and then tear it down quickly while still hot and usually the head bolts don't break. Knock on wood....
I get the premise of different but this would be part of my scrap pile.
I have no clue if they use torque to yield bolts but that is insane I think after the first broken one I would have used it impact rather than Breaking the rest of them sometimes you can feather the trigger on the impact to get it to loosen something extremely tight looks like I won't be building one of these motors they look like a lot of trouble
I believe they are a torque plus degree spec
Wouldn’t a impact work better for pulling the head bolts. Go in reverse on medium setting then forward if needed reverse again. Rinse and repeat maxed out if needed.
Common problem but they normally spin out with left-handed drill bit
I almost choked on my turkey sandwich because I was laughing so hard at you breaking those head bolts!!
A few tubes of jb weld and should be good to go... 😆
Has anyone tried the air hammer socket bits? It seems like this would be the perfect application for that tool. THERE HAS TO BE A BETTER WAY.
If those are anything like the similarly designed Ecotecs, the guides wear like crazy, then beat the seat out of round, then eventually burn the valve. I have not seen a 4200 come in for this problem, but done tons of 2.0-2.4 Ecotecs that cyl3 burned a valve or 2
I remember when I pulled a head it was still warm maybe that's why I only broke 4 head bolts I think they have a factory loctite substance on the threads