Part 1 time stamps: 0:11 Intro and context 1:08 the untold difference 3:29 the painful difference in detail Part 2 will cover the -How to fix 98462’s reputation in the Fandom -final thoughts Also join my discord server, because why not: discord.gg/rJVzD4RFbc
In my headcanon , Alfred , and 98462 are not the same engines , but they are friends , until Thomas and Emily sent him to Hiroshima 1945 and died in the explosion
I mean you have him as 98462 if you want as I said in part 2, you aren’t wrong for having him as 98462 (unless you claim Alfred as fact, then that’s a whole different story).
The simple solution as to why Alfred is often seen as 98462, I think, is that in canon, he was an enigma to the audience outside of being one of Edwards bullies. Thanks to some fans who wanted to flesh him out, as a result, other fans began to accept it since the fan content filled in the blanks that were left in the books and TV show. Take for example Stanley/Smudger. We never see them again after they were converted into a pumping engine and generator respectively. Stanley was said to have been scrapped by the expanded universe. But what about Smudger? Did he get scrapped too? Was he just left in that shed forever? Such things are fun to speculate about.
@@DarkBlueEngineProductions2024 could work but then again same thing with having 87546 and Crovan as different characters, it’s also kinda werid, since basically you’re having two 98462s one is RWS and another is a pure interpretation
@@ScorchZane well in my HC: Alfred’s number is 98463, the number right after 98462 But as for 98462, when I mentioned that he and Alfred/98463 are separate characters 98462 is an LNER B12 making them brothers but 98462 is actually a one-off variant because he has a sloped running-board while Alfred remains as a regular B12 For their personalities 98462 is a rude and manipulative bully to the other engines and his own crew Now as for Alfred, he starts off as a jerk, but not as bad as his brother In 1922, Alfred and 98462 were sent to Sodor on trial with 87546/Regaby, 87547 (later Crovan), and 65347/Alled Greedy, the other three also started off as jerks as well but soon in 1923 just after Gordon arrived, 98462 had an accident in the sea because of his reckless driving, he, Alfred, Regaby, Crovan and Alled Greedy were sent to the works, but Alfred and Crovan were the more mature ones afterwards, 98462 and Regaby weren’t, as for Alled, he eventually matured after his accident with some apples and as time went on, 98462 got worse than ever, and long story short, he tried to kill Gordon and Henry but got blown up himself, 87546 was soon sent away not long after that, as for Alfred, Crovan and AG, they were purchased in 1925, and all three of them now work on the mainline
@@ScorchZane Ah, the righteous sense of schadenfreude that is humbling those kids with the reality of the harsh truth they desperately needed in their brain cells. XD
Dude, I’m 12 and most of the time I read a railway series story before I go to sleep. Also, I never believed that 98462 was Alfred. Yes, you heard me. Always thinked that Alfred was fake. and after seeing this video, indeed I was right. A friend of mine thinks that 98462 and Alfred are the same engine. This video will help him get a life. Now the dumb kids can learn their lesson. I am so glad I’m actually one of those kids who actually do lots of research. here’s the moral of the documentary: There is no Alfred, just 98462.
Same im also 12 and didnt belive 98462 is a lner b12 called alfred. I also love the rws book and before making something for my personal au i take notes from the ios book. Im kinda sad to know that people cant tell the difference between the classics rws and fan content. Edit: thanks for making these debunking videos, finally some people will stop making false comments about the show.
Honestly, while I agree with everything you said, I probably would still prefer 98462 as a B12 with a few chances like giving him a different name that isn’t Alfred. Also when Awdry wrote back to that fan, I have a feeling he just made up the numbers 98462 and 87546 off the top of his head
It was clear Alfred, even in his earliest form in Sodor: Dark Times was intended to be an adaption of 98462. (I recall there even being a mention of that in that mini series.) Of course nowadays it is much easier to tell that it was a fan story with a character that is both someones take on a character as much as it is their own. 98462 and 87546 should remain those engines that were on Sodor for a little while before being sent away, never to be seen again. Not to say they shouldn't return, but I think a very truthful portrayal of the characters based on Awdry's interpretation is the story 'Trials and Tribulations' by NWR58. It portrays those two characters very truthfully to Awdry's description of them and although 98462 uses Alfred's faces they are never refered to as 'Alfred' or 'Crovan'. This was a great analysis however. I'll be heading straight to part 2. On a little side track now so feel free to skip this. Alfred and Crovan as fans know them from Fan Stories do not exist in my personal Head Canon. After they were sent away 98462 gained a nickname, 'Wolf' and 87546 remained nicknameless. 98546 was eventually scrapped and 87546 eventually returned to the Sodor, he proved to not be as rude as he was, realising his mistakes after being sent away prior and becoming appalled at his past and 'Wolf'. (who never saw the error of his ways). He proved to have redeemed himself after some time on the railway showing how he had became a better engine and eventually got the nickname 'Reverend'. He eventually became the private engine for the Duke and Duchess before Spencer took that place to which afterwards 'Reverend' was placed in a museum. The nickname Reverend was a reference to Awdry, take that how you will. But TLDR think Crovan in T1E2H3 but less typical big engine and more of a redeemed kind character.
In my own head canon, Alfred DOES exist, but isnt 98462, but instead, jest another engine from the other railway due to all of the inaccuracys between them you mentioned, the actual basis for 98462 (and by extension 87546) are jest experimental designs to lighten the workload for the lner and test out new parts, as such they never received names, and once more finalized designs showed up, they were jest barrowed to whatever railway needed them at the time
Well i made my ideal 98462 is a raven A2 and would arrive to sodor in 1924 and then would get really cocky in the smokebox and would then get in raged when sir Tompham hat would then give henry all the praze when henry rescued him from a horrible crash and would get his name taken away then 98462 would meet 87546 who would stay on sodor until he would be loaned back to the LNER and 98462 would be sent away in disgrace not given his name back for you know for causing 87546 to crash on Gordon’s hill and he would be bought a few year in 1949 where he would be given full ownership by sir tompham the 3rd and then would brought back when 87546/kirk Ronan crashed into the flying kipper. I know you would think I’m an idiot for writing all these ideas but this felt right to me like what you said about 98462 not being Alfred or b16 98462 so scorchZane dont say what you want to say.
In my au,am still looking a basis for 98462 but he does arrive in 1923 and is named Grayson and actually stays on The railway after his trial ( but I must not say anything else otherwise I will spoil my series)
5:36 at one point some one edited and then put another fact despite 87546 and 98462 not appearing in the tvs and in official media since the three railway engines they still have appear in fan content and refered by the fan names crovan and Alfred however this is was later deleted
in my headcanon alfred and 98462 are seperate characters,expect alfred's number is 98469.also 98462 also has a name,John(me and my friend named him that)
You are right and you prove good points. There's a major difference between the actual nothing background character and a fan's personal interpretations of said background character. In the end though, the problem definitely stems from misinterpretation and the lack of proper insight on the canonicity of the Thomas franchise and the source material. In a way...I kinda feel sorry for not just Awdry the misinterpretations of characters that were supposed to be very minor and not meant to think too much about, but also for T1E2H3. Yeah I do agree his series isn't perfect and there are flaws, but it's not like he could've known the consequences that would happen when he uploaded his fan series that included his personal fanmade interpretations on 98462 and 87546 as characters. I don't think he was even trying to force people to believe his fanmade series is canon nor the fact that 98462 is actually a psychopathic B12 that was driven to literal insanity. Yes he played a major role in the problem that was the misinterpretation of 98462...but I definitely don't think he was intentionally trying to mislead people, again this is supposed to be fan content and stories we're talking about and it's not like he was trying to tell people to adopt the same interpretations of 98462 as him. In a way, it was a situation, maybe at least partially, beyond his control and again he wouldn't any way of possibly knowing what would happen in the future at the time. Maybe this isn't an excuse per say, but it's an unfortunate possible reality. And yes, while the fanbase and people not familiar with Thomas that ended up believing this are also at fault for not doing any research... they may not necessarily be bad people per say, but it's safe to say they're just... misguided? This misunderstanding isn't just wrong, I think it's also quite depressing and...kinda tragic? I will say. Alfred may be a fanmade interpretation of 98462... but that doesn't meant 98462 is Alfred. Likewise for 87546, who isn't Crovan or Regaby. Some people out there just don't know how to separate personal fanmade personal interpretations and the actual source material, this is just as problematic as not being able to differentiate a chararacter and the actors portraying them.
yeah I agree I don’t think T1E2H3 meant for his series to be taken as a bombing fact, and yeah I say the fan base (at least those who are new) are somewhat misguided since most of them never hit access to the books by Awdry and had only seen the classics. to be honest, I don’t them I just pity them. if anything I blame the YT algorithm for it, after all it’s not T1E2H3 intended for people to think like for example “Alfred is 98462”. and I don’t hate him, since I’m partly inspired by him
I don't hate T1E2H3 either, I do still enjoy his content while also keeping the original source material in mind. More on the bright side though, this inspiration does lead you to address the important truth that is the unfortunate misinterpretation of 98462...considering that T1E2H3 is unintentionally a major part of the reason why this misunderstanding is even a thing, which the fact the consequences were kinda beyond his control puts even more of an emphasis on unfortunate aspect of the situation. This does also bring to light of the possible tragic that is a fan content creator unintentionally causing or fueling the fire of a huge misunderstanding through their works that they may have put so much passion and effort into making. Plus his and many other notable Thomastubers' fanmade Thomas content might end up in CZcams Kids (even if they don't want it to) and that could potentially lead to more misunderstandings. On the other hand, fanmade content creators in the TtTE&F community like T1E2H3, Buried Truck, Carson's Video Workshop, etc... their fanmade works don't just give us something to enjoy but it can lead to other fans that care a lot about the franchise and it's history like us to come up our own fanmade interpretations of certain characters or even come up with our own OCs or stories, etc.
In my head canon he is Vincent ravens attempt to make the ner s3 more powerful so 98462 was made without a simplified voive gear but failed so he was sent to the ger than loaned to the nwr
what if a oc character "castle" was actually 98462 rebuilt into a castle class? but what about alfred being rebuilt to a LNER B16 after he was sent away and then being sent back to the nwr? anyways im gonna make a fan-movie about it and the reason why this is gonna exist in this movie is becouse all 3 of the same character are of course going to have the exact same face and wheel arangement. quite simular to T1E2H3's theory on bertram where bertram is the engine who failed to cross the old iron bridge and that engine what actually smudger
@@ScorchZane unforunitly i could not get any castle class or king class locomotives to work in trainz 12 since i have no idea how to use download helper so im just gonna have to have geoffrey be 98462
Only the doors on the smoke boxes can’t be open is because of the faces if you look closely, as for the brains I think they have physical Brains more like eternal
Okay these videos on the loan engines have a simple explanation dalby did not give a single crap about the illustrations and just made a quick mock up and then the engines just never came back
I never believed 98462 was Alfred, Alfred is just Skarloey123's interpretation of 98462, in fact his version of 87546 is also a Holden B12. There is also the fact that they cant be a B12 because of their side rods, and also their running board. I think it's best to just imagine 98462 and 87546 as random engines from the LNER, or some other part of the Big Four.
It's really simple tho. Alfred is a B12 written by and created by a fan and 98462 is an unkown based engine who created by the reverend W awdry. basically Alfred is a b12 and 98462 is not goodnight everybody!. Still excited to watch ngl.
I know, but these Alfred fans really are very dense (fun fact, I was originally meant to make this video some time a fe months prior but never got around to it).
@@D261-Class40 98462 doesn’t really have a confirmed basis so it’s up to us on how we perceive him as (which I did talk about in part 2; czcams.com/video/f1fUrofRW2I/video.htmlsi=sLPGdVFylVGkVDkN, since it’s not like the illustrations are correct since Dalby didn’t care. But hey if you see him as a B16, then that’s how you view him, as I said before illustrations weren’t very clear on what he was.
My headcannon 98462 is a hybrid of a B4 And B12 And 87546 is Hybrid Of a B4 and B6 Alfred is not 98462 he is in my cannon a engine bought for goods trains and troop trains in 1942
Personally I think the engine in 4:07 is 87546. 98462 in the first illustration has no outside cylinders, while 87546 does. The lack of outside cylinders is why he's believed to be a B-12.
@@pizzaplanettruck9761 how I see it is every engine in the shed minus Edward’s always had outside cylinders, it’s just Dably didn’t add them in so 98462 and that red engine not having cylinders is a mere illustration error
I’ll give a hint something shut down for sometime. I create segments to note which part of the video people are going into, like any other video essay.
Are alfred and chick hicks both villians that both suceded once later failed in case of chick he bumped the king of the track and for alfred's case he blew Knapford
@@chavopatyfanstudios2005 I don’t see how their colour livery speaks of them, like sure it’s a representation tho it’s more the content from their character and actions that I think somewhat Aline.
@chavopatyfanstudios2005 let’s see Alfred uses bomb and explosives to sabotage and kill those he targets. Chick Hicks sabotages racers by bumping them off the racing track. (which is what you said which describes contents of their character). These contents are what Aline, regardless of their liveries. I don’t think their paint job or livery matter, Gordon is somewhat similar to say SquidWard but Gordon is blue while Squid is in a more green-Ish sea water kind of blue, with a brown shirt. so really their appearance don’t need to be match, but they’re character and personality as well as their actions can Aline.
My Ideal Loanded Goobers: 98462:Vincent Raven:LNER A2 No.2400 built in 1922 87546:William Fowler:SDJR Class 7F No.83 built in 1914 The First Red Engine:Lady Mary Marsh:LB&SCR H2 No.425 built in 1911 The Second Red Engine:Winnie Billinton:LB&SCR K Class No.338 built in 1913 The Green Engine:Casey Dean:GWR Dean Goods No.2580 built in 1899
Tbh I forgot about Gordon, looking back on it I didn’t mention Gordon since he was the experimental prototype he likely was given the sloped running board when he was sold off, (even the O2s had it as well) regardless I was also wrong for using the illustrations on screen since tbh Dalby didn’t care
Alfred just an interpretation since Awdry never really confirmed what basis (and livery he originally wore) or which one of the 120 rail companies he came from (although majority believes he’s from the north and eastern regions of the UK.)
In my headcanon, alfred and 98462 are not the same, while alfred is kind and helpful b12, 98462 is arrogant and rude b16, after he caused an incident out side of crosby, he was sent to Barry scrap yard to be cut up
im au for 98462 he was just sent away i did name him alfred in this au but the kamikazi stuff is to extreme also about the b12-b16 i just did not know that due to me not know alot about english trains due to me being american
@@gordonline6942 yeah because Alfred is just an interpretation and not the offical thing. I might make a video redoing these videos but also explaining why I “hate” 98462 as Alfred
I mean awdry didnt say what class or what their name is he already made it cents to me i mean i know people would say that Alfred is 98462 no he’s a fan made character 98462 is a railway series character and it didnt say what class he is like what scorch said his running board is the Same height as gordon (hell he could be Gordon’s brother)🤯
Don’t give me wrong, there are definitely people that think Alfred is canon, but I think most people just like the interpretation of 98462 as Alfred, even if it’s in accurate to the original lore.
@@ScorchZane Oh, I agree, the moment it’s pushed as a fact is going too far. But I have no problem with it, being a commonly accepted headcanon. Honestly, I’m fine with pretty much anything being done with 98462, 87546, and the second red engine, since they are pretty much blank canvases to do stuff with. As long as no one imposes, that adaptation is the true one. Unless your last name is Awdry, none of us get the final say
Yeah no. They are the same character, or at least versions of the same character. Just because the canon 98462 isn't Alfred doesn't mean Alfred isn't 98462 - the whole point of Alfred is that he's a more developed 98462. Yes, Alfred features traits 98462 doesn't have, but that still doesn't make them different characters. Is Enterprisingengine93 Bertram not Bertram because canon Bertram never spoke and didn't have EE93 Bertram's personality? Is TCC Diesel 10 not Diesel 10 because canon Diesel 10 didn't have a character arc and a relationship with Philip? Are all the fan versions of Thomas that are J50s or Jinties or whatever not Thomas because canon Thomas is an E2? Are fan versions of Big City Engine with a name not BCE because canon BCE doesn't have a name? Etc. Extra traits don't make a character a whole different character. Alfred having a different basis doesn't really mean anything because 1. a basis change doesn't mean it's a new character (see my J50/Jinty Thomas example), and 2. 98462 isn't based on anything so unless you're fine with him being a random freelance you have to change his basis. Same with the name (see my BCE example). And Alfred's personality is still based on 98462, it's just more exaggerated (see my Bertram example)
I don’t agree that 98462 has to be Alfred all the time, since he’s just one of many interpretations by the fandom. Tho I do agree that just because a character has a different basis, doesn’t mean they do different. I don’t believe Alfred was meant to 98462, based of Skarloey123, he made those dark times video based on emotion it brings out. I don’t have a problem with 98462 as Alfred as AU/Headcanon, just not claimed as a fact in actual RWS Canon.
@@ScorchZane I completely agree with that, each fan take should be what that fan wants, not what someone did 15 years ago with them. I'd also say this applies to canon traits of a character, which is how Alfred came to be in the first place Yeah I don't like when people treat fanon as canon too, but that's kinda a separate discussion
glad we come to some kind of agreement (if it even is, I honestly don’t even know anymore). Speaking of taking things from 15 years ago, I might discuss it in sticking to canon is mid, (I might change the title and thumbnail to something more about taking fanons stuff from 15 years ago as well).
Oh hey look there’s my comment. 😛 I personally disagree with being against the B16 (because it honestly works better than the B12, shape and timeline-wise imo), but we’re entitled to our opinions, so feel free to disagree.
@@ScorchZanesince we don’t see half the engines in the second and third illustrations and how the face of the one in them looks like the one on the left (which people claim is 87546), maybe that could be him for all we know.
Alfred isn't 98462, or atleast, not in the *actual* cannon of Tbomas and Friends. Not RWS, not in the model series and not in the cgi series. Alfred is a fan made character and serves fan head cannons. You want him to be 98462? That's just your cannon which is completely fine, but don't parade it around as fact and that Alfred is 98462 in the RWS, he isn't. I'd also like to add that using the illustrations to see 98462's actual bassis is not great. You made a point on how the running board is slopped not curved, the same could be argued for Gordon. The fact of the matter is that the RWS illustrations are not always correct like how they drew Henry's tunnel etc. Gordon is supposed to be an A1 but has so many differences he may as well be a different engine. My argument is that you can't rule out 98462 being a B16 because of the illustrations because the illustrations didn't have a good track record of being accurate anyways.
You do have a point (despite not being the first to bring this to my attention). In part 2 I did explain that even tho 98462 is not a B12, that doesn’t mean the illustrations are correct since as Mary said “Dably didn’t care much for the railway series”). You have good point tho, and I did acknowledge this in Part 2.
@@JacqueTheInsaneEngine a jobber is basically somebody who jobs (which is why 98462 and the other loaned engines were there, they were there to handle jobs during the locomotive crisis on the NWR).
98462 AND ALFERD MAIT NOT BI THE SEIM MEIBI SUMVON SAL VOCI DES VIDIOS AND SAL ONDERSTAND MEIBI ALRFERD SAL BICOM SUMTING OF THE PASTOR BI POPIURELAS EI ADER NAIM IF DEI VOD NO THE BOCKS DEN DEI VIL NO ALFERD IS SUMTING POD IT IS TU FAR GON
Part 1 time stamps:
0:11 Intro and context
1:08 the untold difference
3:29 the painful difference in detail
Part 2 will cover the
-How to fix 98462’s reputation in the Fandom
-final thoughts
Also join my discord server, because why not: discord.gg/rJVzD4RFbc
I strongly agree Alfred the dick alternative version of 98462 isn’t canon
Are you mad at people that make non-Alfred 98462 Characters
Like streak of blue?
Not what people make, but what they claim
In my headcanon , Alfred , and 98462 are not the same engines , but they are friends , until Thomas and Emily sent him to Hiroshima 1945 and died in the explosion
*what*
My headcanon’s kinda wild
Wtf is this headcannon 💀💀💀
How and why did they send them into Hiroshima...? 🤔
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Tbh, I usually thought it was Alfred as 98462, but over time, I think Alfred is overrated.
I mean you have him as 98462 if you want as I said in part 2, you aren’t wrong for having him as 98462 (unless you claim Alfred as fact, then that’s a whole different story).
@@ScorchZane well in my upcoming au the engines refer 98462 to derek
The simple solution as to why Alfred is often seen as 98462, I think, is that in canon, he was an enigma to the audience outside of being one of Edwards bullies. Thanks to some fans who wanted to flesh him out, as a result, other fans began to accept it since the fan content filled in the blanks that were left in the books and TV show.
Take for example Stanley/Smudger. We never see them again after they were converted into a pumping engine and generator respectively. Stanley was said to have been scrapped by the expanded universe. But what about Smudger? Did he get scrapped too? Was he just left in that shed forever?
Such things are fun to speculate about.
yeah, after all I’m kinds Alfred is the interpretation of 98462 that exists.
@@ScorchZanewhat are your thoughts on Alfred and 98462 being separate characters like in my head-canon
@@DarkBlueEngineProductions2024 could work but then again same thing with having 87546 and Crovan as different characters, it’s also kinda werid, since basically you’re having two 98462s one is RWS and another is a pure interpretation
@@ScorchZane well in my HC: Alfred’s number is 98463, the number right after 98462
But as for 98462, when I mentioned that he and Alfred/98463 are separate characters
98462 is an LNER B12 making them brothers but 98462 is actually a one-off variant because he has a sloped running-board while Alfred remains as a regular B12
For their personalities
98462 is a rude and manipulative bully to the other engines and his own crew
Now as for Alfred, he starts off as a jerk, but not as bad as his brother
In 1922, Alfred and 98462 were sent to Sodor on trial with 87546/Regaby, 87547 (later Crovan), and 65347/Alled Greedy, the other three also started off as jerks as well but soon in 1923 just after Gordon arrived, 98462 had an accident in the sea because of his reckless driving, he, Alfred, Regaby, Crovan and Alled Greedy were sent to the works, but Alfred and Crovan were the more mature ones afterwards, 98462 and Regaby weren’t, as for Alled, he eventually matured after his accident with some apples and as time went on, 98462 got worse than ever, and long story short, he tried to kill Gordon and Henry but got blown up himself, 87546 was soon sent away not long after that, as for Alfred, Crovan and AG, they were purchased in 1925, and all three of them now work on the mainline
Poor six year old kids
Their entire world view will be shattered
LMFAO IDK why but I find it so satisfying
@@ScorchZane Ah, the righteous sense of schadenfreude that is humbling those kids with the reality of the harsh truth they desperately needed in their brain cells. XD
Dude, I’m 12 and most of the time I read a railway series story before I go to sleep. Also, I never believed that 98462 was Alfred. Yes, you heard me. Always thinked that Alfred was fake. and after seeing this video, indeed I was right. A friend of mine thinks that 98462 and Alfred are the same engine. This video will help him get a life. Now the dumb kids can learn their lesson. I am so glad I’m actually one of those kids who actually do lots of research. here’s the moral of the documentary:
There is no Alfred, just 98462.
finally a kid who knows something, you know what respect bro you have earned it
Same im also 12 and didnt belive 98462 is a lner b12 called alfred. I also love the rws book and before making something for my personal au i take notes from the ios book. Im kinda sad to know that people cant tell the difference between the classics rws and fan content. Edit: thanks for making these debunking videos,
finally some people will stop making false comments about the show.
Honestly, while I agree with everything you said, I probably would still prefer 98462 as a B12 with a few chances like giving him a different name that isn’t Alfred. Also when Awdry wrote back to that fan, I have a feeling he just made up the numbers 98462 and 87546 off the top of his head
2 year olds after watching this viedo:*Metal pipe sound insert*
It was clear Alfred, even in his earliest form in Sodor: Dark Times was intended to be an adaption of 98462. (I recall there even being a mention of that in that mini series.) Of course nowadays it is much easier to tell that it was a fan story with a character that is both someones take on a character as much as it is their own. 98462 and 87546 should remain those engines that were on Sodor for a little while before being sent away, never to be seen again. Not to say they shouldn't return, but I think a very truthful portrayal of the characters based on Awdry's interpretation is the story 'Trials and Tribulations' by NWR58. It portrays those two characters very truthfully to Awdry's description of them and although 98462 uses Alfred's faces they are never refered to as 'Alfred' or 'Crovan'. This was a great analysis however. I'll be heading straight to part 2.
On a little side track now so feel free to skip this. Alfred and Crovan as fans know them from Fan Stories do not exist in my personal Head Canon. After they were sent away 98462 gained a nickname, 'Wolf' and 87546 remained nicknameless. 98546 was eventually scrapped and 87546 eventually returned to the Sodor, he proved to not be as rude as he was, realising his mistakes after being sent away prior and becoming appalled at his past and 'Wolf'. (who never saw the error of his ways). He proved to have redeemed himself after some time on the railway showing how he had became a better engine and eventually got the nickname 'Reverend'. He eventually became the private engine for the Duke and Duchess before Spencer took that place to which afterwards 'Reverend' was placed in a museum. The nickname Reverend was a reference to Awdry, take that how you will. But TLDR think Crovan in T1E2H3 but less typical big engine and more of a redeemed kind character.
@@GREATRJ1 at least with 87546 T1E2H3 didn’t make him a monster, I might make a video going over why I “hate” Alfred as 98462
If Alfred is never mentioned as 98462, can they both be in the same universe?
I mean up to individuals I guess, since Alfred is an interpretation of 98462
Tbh despite we don't the original canon of characters like 98462 do fans own character expect just fan interpetations
Tell this to the 5 year kids who think 98462 and alfred is the same character
Oh trust me I will
day R da sam you rong dumby poopie but hehe I funny ha
-trust me I'm joking-
This man is the new god
SCARY GORDON,😂😂😂😂
LMAO
In my own head canon, Alfred DOES exist, but isnt 98462, but instead, jest another engine from the other railway due to all of the inaccuracys between them you mentioned, the actual basis for 98462 (and by extension 87546) are jest experimental designs to lighten the workload for the lner and test out new parts, as such they never received names, and once more finalized designs showed up, they were jest barrowed to whatever railway needed them at the time
Well i made my ideal 98462 is a raven A2 and would arrive to sodor in 1924 and then would get really cocky in the smokebox and would then get in raged when sir Tompham hat would then give henry all the praze when henry rescued him from a horrible crash and would get his name taken away then 98462 would meet 87546 who would stay on sodor until he would be loaned back to the LNER and 98462 would be sent away in disgrace not given his name back for you know for causing 87546 to crash on Gordon’s hill and he would be bought a few year in 1949 where he would be given full ownership by sir tompham the 3rd and then would brought back when 87546/kirk Ronan crashed into the flying kipper. I know you would think I’m an idiot for writing all these ideas but this felt right to me like what you said about 98462 not being Alfred or b16 98462 so scorchZane dont say what you want to say.
Best way to describe this debate is they share similar design elements but ones bigger than the other
Alfred and 98462 are much better as separate characters.
In my au,am still looking a basis for 98462 but he does arrive in 1923 and is named Grayson and actually stays on The railway after his trial ( but I must not say anything else otherwise I will spoil my series)
I chose an LNER B7
Thanks for getting my head straight here.
no worries, but ill probably redo this video one day
5:36 at one point some one edited and then put another fact despite 87546 and 98462 not appearing in the tvs and in official media since the three railway engines they still have appear in fan content and refered by the fan names crovan and Alfred however this is was later deleted
98462 may not be Alfred
But he is in my AU, and he's a GER S69 and Not An actual B12
No inside engines please
No inside cylinder engines
The fact that t1e2h3's characterisation is acctually pretty good, its just what came after it was sucked.
on that I can agree ngl
@@ScorchZane yeah, his depictiom was pretty accurate to dark times
in my headcanon alfred and 98462 are seperate characters,expect alfred's number is 98469.also 98462 also has a name,John(me and my friend named him that)
You are right and you prove good points. There's a major difference between the actual nothing background character and a fan's personal interpretations of said background character. In the end though, the problem definitely stems from misinterpretation and the lack of proper insight on the canonicity of the Thomas franchise and the source material.
In a way...I kinda feel sorry for not just Awdry the misinterpretations of characters that were supposed to be very minor and not meant to think too much about, but also for T1E2H3. Yeah I do agree his series isn't perfect and there are flaws, but it's not like he could've known the consequences that would happen when he uploaded his fan series that included his personal fanmade interpretations on 98462 and 87546 as characters. I don't think he was even trying to force people to believe his fanmade series is canon nor the fact that 98462 is actually a psychopathic B12 that was driven to literal insanity. Yes he played a major role in the problem that was the misinterpretation of 98462...but I definitely don't think he was intentionally trying to mislead people, again this is supposed to be fan content and stories we're talking about and it's not like he was trying to tell people to adopt the same interpretations of 98462 as him. In a way, it was a situation, maybe at least partially, beyond his control and again he wouldn't any way of possibly knowing what would happen in the future at the time. Maybe this isn't an excuse per say, but it's an unfortunate possible reality.
And yes, while the fanbase and people not familiar with Thomas that ended up believing this are also at fault for not doing any research... they may not necessarily be bad people per say, but it's safe to say they're just... misguided?
This misunderstanding isn't just wrong, I think it's also quite depressing and...kinda tragic? I will say.
Alfred may be a fanmade interpretation of 98462... but that doesn't meant 98462 is Alfred. Likewise for 87546, who isn't Crovan or Regaby. Some people out there just don't know how to separate personal fanmade personal interpretations and the actual source material, this is just as problematic as not being able to differentiate a chararacter and the actors portraying them.
yeah I agree I don’t think T1E2H3 meant for his series to be taken as a bombing fact, and yeah I say the fan base (at least those who are new) are somewhat misguided since most of them never hit access to the books by Awdry and had only seen the classics.
to be honest, I don’t them I just pity them. if anything I blame the YT algorithm for it, after all it’s not T1E2H3 intended for people to think like for example “Alfred is 98462”. and I don’t hate him, since I’m partly inspired by him
I don't hate T1E2H3 either, I do still enjoy his content while also keeping the original source material in mind. More on the bright side though, this inspiration does lead you to address the important truth that is the unfortunate misinterpretation of 98462...considering that T1E2H3 is unintentionally a major part of the reason why this misunderstanding is even a thing, which the fact the consequences were kinda beyond his control puts even more of an emphasis on unfortunate aspect of the situation. This does also bring to light of the possible tragic that is a fan content creator unintentionally causing or fueling the fire of a huge misunderstanding through their works that they may have put so much passion and effort into making.
Plus his and many other notable Thomastubers' fanmade Thomas content might end up in CZcams Kids (even if they don't want it to) and that could potentially lead to more misunderstandings.
On the other hand, fanmade content creators in the TtTE&F community like T1E2H3, Buried Truck, Carson's Video Workshop, etc... their fanmade works don't just give us something to enjoy but it can lead to other fans that care a lot about the franchise and it's history like us to come up our own fanmade interpretations of certain characters or even come up with our own OCs or stories, etc.
@@megariderfire1994 after all what Mattel has done, at least they try to keep the spirit alive. I guess that’s something I can’t overlook tbh
3:34 98462 hade no cylinders 4:14 now he them
Alfred is 98462.
But 98462 is not Alfred.
There.
Very nice to hear your reasons as to why alfred is not 98462
I mean yeah
In my head canon he is Vincent ravens attempt to make the ner s3 more powerful so 98462 was made without a simplified voive gear but failed so he was sent to the ger than loaned to the nwr
Alfred isn’t 98462 after so many years someone else agrees with me
RIP to them children
98462 is a b16 in my HC and his name is Gregory
I guess he has the same name as the Raven A2 from EO8
what if a oc character "castle" was actually 98462 rebuilt into a castle class? but what about alfred being rebuilt to a LNER B16 after he was sent away and then being sent back to the nwr? anyways im gonna make a fan-movie about it and the reason why this is gonna exist in this movie is becouse all 3 of the same character are of course going to have the exact same face and wheel arangement. quite simular to T1E2H3's theory on bertram where bertram is the engine who failed to cross the old iron bridge and that engine what actually smudger
Oh ok
@@ScorchZane unforunitly i could not get any castle class or king class locomotives to work in trainz 12 since i have no idea how to use download helper so im just gonna have to have geoffrey be 98462
People just don't know how to use 98462 lol
I heavily agree ngl
I most likely pick 98462 as a B16, since most people like it more than as a B12
I mean hey it’s alright
0:56 i laughed at the fail sound
Where’s there’s passions, there comedy
@@ScorchZane yeah
@@ScorchZane also angry casue he was cancelled
@@chavopatyfanstudios2005 bro got smacked into the void along with the most forgotten characters in the franchise
@@ScorchZane yeah
i am 15 i love t1e2h3's channel ik alfred aint 98462 and i aint able to buy rws books
If it makes you happy, there are audio books on CZcams right now (with the narration only). You could watch those or I guess listen to those for free.
thank you for letting me know@@ScorchZane
my ideal 98462 and 87546 is from the middleton illustrations
Might wanna be more specific since we didn’t see their whole bodies
Are the brains of the engines inside their smokeboxes
If that’s the case wouldn’t blood come out of their funnels
@@ScorchZane perhaps also Is the engines not opening their smokeboxes doors similar to how cars cant open their doors in cars
Only the doors on the smoke boxes can’t be open is because of the faces if you look closely, as for the brains I think they have physical Brains more like eternal
@@ScorchZane so how they can clean their smokebox doors in the inside
@@chavopatyfanstudios2005 the funnels: am I a joke to you?
Okay these videos on the loan engines have a simple explanation dalby did not give a single crap about the illustrations and just made a quick mock up and then the engines just never came back
Awdry: *also went as far to explain how 98462 and 87546 were*
i mean 98462 as a b12 is not a propblem i mean yes i know hes not a b12 buit there are alternate versions of him
tbh it’s find the B12 himself, it’s this whole stereotype of a character that he is being portrayed as over and over.
I can't wait to see this
Ngl I can’t wait for it to premier
98462 was never Alfred in my AU, and is a GCR 8B
@@CandleheadandGregoryFan ive I've never heard of a GCR 8B. What do they look like
I never believed 98462 was Alfred, Alfred is just Skarloey123's interpretation of 98462, in fact his version of 87546 is also a Holden B12. There is also the fact that they cant be a B12 because of their side rods, and also their running board. I think it's best to just imagine 98462 and 87546 as random engines from the LNER, or some other part of the Big Four.
Despite this i feel both parts of this video could’ve been done better
It's really simple tho.
Alfred is a B12 written by and created by a fan and 98462 is an unkown based engine who created by the reverend W awdry.
basically Alfred is a b12 and 98462 is not goodnight everybody!. Still excited to watch ngl.
I know, but these Alfred fans really are very dense (fun fact, I was originally meant to make this video some time a fe months prior but never got around to it).
@@ScorchZane ok, this should be fun anyway
98462 is a B16, not a freelance or the same class as gordon
@@D261-Class40 that's not a fact, it's a theory. 98462's basis is unkown. He resembles a few engines one being the B16 but that doesn't mean he is one
@@D261-Class40 98462 doesn’t really have a confirmed basis so it’s up to us on how we perceive him as (which I did talk about in part 2; czcams.com/video/f1fUrofRW2I/video.htmlsi=sLPGdVFylVGkVDkN, since it’s not like the illustrations are correct since Dalby didn’t care.
But hey if you see him as a B16, then that’s how you view him, as I said before illustrations weren’t very clear on what he was.
Ok im am a kid but i red the books so 😊😊
good for you
My headcannon 98462 is a hybrid of a B4 And B12
And 87546 is Hybrid Of a B4 and B6
Alfred is not 98462 he is in my cannon a engine bought for goods trains and troop trains in 1942
98462 is a b12!😢😢😢
I dare you top find info on where does it say in regard to the Awdrys -_-
No they ain't
Raanawarner 98462 is a ????? 😡
Does the sodor nostalgia zone 2006 98462 looks like freelance
Personally I think the engine in 4:07 is 87546. 98462 in the first illustration has no outside cylinders, while 87546 does. The lack of outside cylinders is why he's believed to be a B-12.
One problem 98462 was the one next to Gordon, not the engine in between the Green Engine or the Red Engine.
@ScorchZane
In that particular illustration maybe. But in the next two 98462 suddenly has outside cylinders.
@@pizzaplanettruck9761 how I see it is every engine in the shed minus Edward’s always had outside cylinders, it’s just Dably didn’t add them in so 98462 and that red engine not having cylinders is a mere illustration error
Have people make a shed 17 headcanon for 98462
How did you did that sprite scene
I just dragged with it with my finger that’s it really
3:28 why did you make that scene
I’ll give a hint something shut down for sometime.
I create segments to note which part of the video people are going into, like any other video essay.
@@ScorchZane what do you mean
@@chavopatyfanstudios2005 you know what I mean
I would'nt be mind if alfred was 98462"s tvs counderpart
Are alfred and chick hicks both villians that both suceded once later failed in case of chick he bumped the king of the track and for alfred's case he blew Knapford
Technically yes, since chick sabotaged racers and Alfred set off bombs so technically yes
@@ScorchZane both are green as well
@@chavopatyfanstudios2005 I don’t see how their colour livery speaks of them, like sure it’s a representation tho it’s more the content from their character and actions that I think somewhat Aline.
@@ScorchZane what do you mean by that
@chavopatyfanstudios2005 let’s see
Alfred uses bomb and explosives to sabotage and kill those he targets.
Chick Hicks sabotages racers by bumping them off the racing track. (which is what you said which describes contents of their character).
These contents are what Aline, regardless of their liveries.
I don’t think their paint job or livery matter, Gordon is somewhat similar to say SquidWard but Gordon is blue while Squid is in a more green-Ish sea water kind of blue, with a brown shirt. so really their appearance don’t need to be match, but they’re character and personality as well as their actions can Aline.
Does oliver productions rectons real life
I don’t think so
Even me a 12 year old has the 70 anniversy original 26 books
@@andrewthegreatbrewer6695 I might redo this video (ina different way plus explain why I hate Alfred as 98462)
IM SORRY OK I WAS INFLUENCED THAT ALFRED WAS 98462 AS A CHILD FROM THE CHILDHOOD THOMAS MEDIA
.-.
No worries?….
My Ideal Loanded Goobers:
98462:Vincent Raven:LNER A2 No.2400 built in 1922
87546:William Fowler:SDJR Class 7F No.83 built in 1914
The First Red Engine:Lady Mary Marsh:LB&SCR H2 No.425 built in 1911
The Second Red Engine:Winnie Billinton:LB&SCR K Class No.338 built in 1913
The Green Engine:Casey Dean:GWR Dean Goods No.2580 built in 1899
Honestly nice takes
Thanks,there weren’t loanded in the 20’s though,I know
Are these kids consider these facts in tvs canon rather rws canon
Do the b12s and b16s have similar smokeboxes
no
@@ScorchZane why not
@@chavopatyfanstudios2005 if you search who designed each one, you’ll know why
@@ScorchZane favorite classic cartoon for me mickey mouse tom and jerry looney tunes and pink panther
6:32 that’s too fanciful to ever take place in the books
4:34
Shouldnt this apply to gordon aswell?
Tbh I forgot about Gordon, looking back on it I didn’t mention Gordon since he was the experimental prototype he likely was given the sloped running board when he was sold off, (even the O2s had it as well) regardless I was also wrong for using the illustrations on screen since tbh Dalby didn’t care
I was so dumb thinking its the same character and in fact why did he gave him that number anyway?
I like to think alfred is that evil twin or clone that killed the real deal or hey but thats just a theory
A TRAIN THEORY
alfred is 98462 its just he has different colour paint job
Alfred just an interpretation since Awdry never really confirmed what basis (and livery he originally wore) or which one of the 120 rail companies he came from (although majority believes he’s from the north and eastern regions of the UK.)
In my headcanon, alfred and 98462 are not the same, while alfred is kind and helpful b12, 98462 is arrogant and rude b16, after he caused an incident out side of crosby, he was sent to Barry scrap yard to be cut up
im au for 98462 he was just sent away i did name him alfred in this au but the kamikazi stuff is to extreme also about the b12-b16 i just did not know that due to me not know alot about english trains due to me being american
Yt is hiding some hearts
Keep in mind that 98462 and Alfred are not the same entity, they are too COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CHARACTERS! Alfred was never intend to be 98462
on that I can agree on
What if mattel made some fan content in canon
wouldn’t that mean they would've adapted it by bow
Finally someone I can agree with,
I mean agree disagree, it’s the internet. (recommend watching part 2 of this as well).
@@ScorchZane ok
I am a 12 year old I read the RWS so I personally think these 2 alfred and 98462 are different engined as you said 1 is fan and 1 is official
@@gordonline6942 yeah because Alfred is just an interpretation and not the offical thing. I might make a video redoing these videos but also explaining why I “hate” 98462 as Alfred
What if he said welcome to the alfred era baby
Wait what if 98462 is Alfred just a different class
That has happened but only with the B16, and on one Deviantart with him being a Raven A2
What if 87546 got henry's cgi persona
Ngl that would funny AF
98462 is a LNER B16
Where did Awdry say that was?
Like sure he’s a B16 in fanon, but Awdry never said his basis.
(Hell I might redo this video.)
Hes not wrong
I mean awdry didnt say what class or what their name is he already made it cents to me i mean i know people would say that Alfred is 98462 no he’s a fan made character 98462 is a railway series character and it didnt say what class he is like what scorch said his running board is the Same height as gordon (hell he could be Gordon’s brother)🤯
Don’t give me wrong, there are definitely people that think Alfred is canon, but I think most people just like the interpretation of 98462 as Alfred, even if it’s in accurate to the original lore.
I’m ok with it being headcanon, but when claimed as fact, it can push somebody in the wrong way.
@@ScorchZane
Oh, I agree, the moment it’s pushed as a fact is going too far. But I have no problem with it, being a commonly accepted headcanon.
Honestly, I’m fine with pretty much anything being done with 98462, 87546, and the second red engine, since they are pretty much blank canvases to do stuff with. As long as no one imposes, that adaptation is the true one. Unless your last name is Awdry, none of us get the final say
@@comicfan1324 true
I prefer 98462 a character that was a nwr project but was soon scraped cuz he was a failure
hmmmmm interesting take
Are people acoosianted with the middleton versión
Yeah no. They are the same character, or at least versions of the same character. Just because the canon 98462 isn't Alfred doesn't mean Alfred isn't 98462 - the whole point of Alfred is that he's a more developed 98462. Yes, Alfred features traits 98462 doesn't have, but that still doesn't make them different characters. Is Enterprisingengine93 Bertram not Bertram because canon Bertram never spoke and didn't have EE93 Bertram's personality? Is TCC Diesel 10 not Diesel 10 because canon Diesel 10 didn't have a character arc and a relationship with Philip? Are all the fan versions of Thomas that are J50s or Jinties or whatever not Thomas because canon Thomas is an E2? Are fan versions of Big City Engine with a name not BCE because canon BCE doesn't have a name? Etc. Extra traits don't make a character a whole different character.
Alfred having a different basis doesn't really mean anything because 1. a basis change doesn't mean it's a new character (see my J50/Jinty Thomas example), and 2. 98462 isn't based on anything so unless you're fine with him being a random freelance you have to change his basis. Same with the name (see my BCE example). And Alfred's personality is still based on 98462, it's just more exaggerated (see my Bertram example)
I don’t agree that 98462 has to be Alfred all the time, since he’s just one of many interpretations by the fandom. Tho I do agree that just because a character has a different basis, doesn’t mean they do different.
I don’t believe Alfred was meant to 98462, based of Skarloey123, he made those dark times video based on emotion it brings out.
I don’t have a problem with 98462 as Alfred as AU/Headcanon, just not claimed as a fact in actual RWS Canon.
@@ScorchZane I completely agree with that, each fan take should be what that fan wants, not what someone did 15 years ago with them. I'd also say this applies to canon traits of a character, which is how Alfred came to be in the first place
Yeah I don't like when people treat fanon as canon too, but that's kinda a separate discussion
glad we come to some kind of agreement (if it even is, I honestly don’t even know anymore).
Speaking of taking things from 15 years ago, I might discuss it in sticking to canon is mid, (I might change the title and thumbnail to something more about taking fanons stuff from 15 years ago as well).
I wonder what locomotive 98462 really is.
Same here (btw I recommend watching part 2:czcams.com/video/f1fUrofRW2I/video.htmlsi=Gu9nt2NHRfVJ-JTQ)
Imagine id the tale of the bad engine had a post credit secne similar to the one from misty island rescue
Ngl I can imagine the bed engine either laughing till he vanishes or being cut up
@@ScorchZane how will the post credit will be like
@@chavopatyfanstudios2005 tbh up to anyone
@@ScorchZane will it be similar to the one from misty island rescue
@@chavopatyfanstudios2005 for me I can imagine the bad engine’a ghost roaming around then disappearing or him being cut up for scrap
Is the b16 take the b12 take 2.0
98462 is a B16 named Aleric
Not canon
My take on Alfred is in LNER Green with Red Lining and NWR on his Tender and 8503 on his Cab
How's that?
It’s alright I guess
@@ScorchZane I chose 8503 Since I feel like it's better than just 3
@@CandleheadandGregoryFan tbh any B12 number would have to do, so really there really that might of a right or wrong answer
@@ScorchZane you have a Point
Oh hey look there’s my comment. 😛
I personally disagree with being against the B16 (because it honestly works better than the B12, shape and timeline-wise imo), but we’re entitled to our opinions, so feel free to disagree.
gotta give you props for it and yeah we do have our own opinions
That is right we have our own different opinións
In those illustrated of the cylinder could be 87456 Or Whatever.
Not really since 87546 while he does have outside cylinders was never next to Gordon
@@ScorchZanesince we don’t see half the engines in the second and third illustrations and how the face of the one in them looks like the one on the left (which people claim is 87546), maybe that could be him for all we know.
I knew that he Is not even a b16
then again we don’t need to confine ourselves to the illustrations since Awdry did say they were inaccurate
Alfred isn't 98462, or atleast, not in the *actual* cannon of Tbomas and Friends. Not RWS, not in the model series and not in the cgi series.
Alfred is a fan made character and serves fan head cannons. You want him to be 98462? That's just your cannon which is completely fine, but don't parade it around as fact and that Alfred is 98462 in the RWS, he isn't.
I'd also like to add that using the illustrations to see 98462's actual bassis is not great. You made a point on how the running board is slopped not curved, the same could be argued for Gordon. The fact of the matter is that the RWS illustrations are not always correct like how they drew Henry's tunnel etc. Gordon is supposed to be an A1 but has so many differences he may as well be a different engine. My argument is that you can't rule out 98462 being a B16 because of the illustrations because the illustrations didn't have a good track record of being accurate anyways.
You do have a point (despite not being the first to bring this to my attention). In part 2 I did explain that even tho 98462 is not a B12, that doesn’t mean the illustrations are correct since as Mary said “Dably didn’t care much for the railway series”). You have good point tho, and I did acknowledge this in Part 2.
Probaly 5 year olds be like: WHAT NOOOO I THOUGHT ALFRED IS 98462 :[
LMFAO
Is 98462 name is Brandon....or 98462 name's are withdrawn, but oh well
up to you mate (I recommend checking out part 2)
@@ScorchZane I did
Can you please explain what a jobber is
@@JacqueTheInsaneEngine a jobber is basically somebody who jobs (which is why 98462 and the other loaned engines were there, they were there to handle jobs during the locomotive crisis on the NWR).
@@ScorchZane thanks
@@ScorchZane my ideal 87546 is a C1 Atlantic
Why do you add subblites
audio isn’t always clear
Bro can’t except anyone’s opinions💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
bro doesn’t understand between an opinion and a claim
Hmmm how about both Henry and 98462 were built by the same person
Could work in AU and HC (maybe that’s the case in actual canon, who knows tbh).
@@ScorchZane and T1E2H3 and Railfan #1 kinda well got me an inspiration for my AU
I didn't even know this was a debate 🤣 dang (I'm not trying to slander you BTW I'm just being silly)
relax bro no hard feeling here
In my opinion Alfred is 98462
Thats an opinion
🤬🤬🤬🤬😡😡😡😡😤😤😤😤🥵🥵🥵
2 days!
98462 AND ALFERD MAIT NOT BI THE SEIM MEIBI SUMVON SAL VOCI DES VIDIOS AND SAL ONDERSTAND MEIBI ALRFERD SAL BICOM SUMTING OF THE PASTOR BI POPIURELAS EI ADER NAIM IF DEI VOD NO THE BOCKS DEN DEI VIL NO ALFERD IS SUMTING POD IT IS TU FAR GON
Did you have a stroke writing this?
Wot
And second voai?ai fenc vot ai VONT IA FINC NAU DET 98462 IS EI COSTOM ENGYN LAIC SEI HARVI OR GORDON EI PROTOTAI AND AI HAD NO STOCK IU
What are you even saying?
No wonder