True, but he still appropriated the character and gave it an origin that was unlike what Jack had in mind. Jack's original concept for the surfer was a being created from pure energy. now granted the origin that Stan provided was better, it was still Jack's right and I know the stand could've done something with a dialogue to make Jack's origin flourish. But no, and then dad insult to injury he gave the spinoff book to John Buscema instead of Jack.
The whole Stan Lee / Jack Kirby rivalry is all media hype. Yea, they had a falling out. Yea, they ended up making amends. But beyond that, it's all fanboyism on who's better than who. Want the real skinny? Marvel wouldn't have survived without Lee. He was the face. He knew how to read the times and see what people wanted. He knew how to market. Marvel wouldn't have survived without Kirby. He knew how to take the roughest of rough ideas and turn it into gold. If either hadn't been at Marvel when they were, we'd not have Marvel and we certainly wouldn't have any of the characters we do now.
@@WalkerRileyMC No. Stan being seen as the sole creator is the media hype. It didn't use to be that way. The Marvel universe would have existed without Stan, it would have just been doe elsewhere and maybe it wouldn't have been as good. Its not a big step from FF to the New Gods. But Stan would be nothing without Jack, he got lucky, they had a chemistry that was bigger than the sum of the parts. But Stan was just a hack writer who was seen as a poor mans Kurtzman without the humor. He was a Sammy Glick type. He lucked out with Jsck and Steve, but hogs too much credit. His post Jack work for the next40 years was one failure after another. They didn't make amends really, Yeah they'd shake hands but when Stan suggested at a party they work together again, Roz shut that down then and there, and good for her. Stan has never been gracious, everytime someone says "You created..." the first words out of his mouth should be "Co-creatd, with Jack..." but he doesn't do that. Stan was a credit hog. period.
There was just something about Jack Kirby's art that made those comic books come alive for me. I just couldn't get enough of the Silver Surfer or Dr. Doom.
Screaming Dean I liked it. Found it on CZcams. You know what I’d do if I was to make a new FF. I’d change the powers around. I’d make Sue the Torch cuz she’d be hot and extroverted. Ben would be introverted, shy, unattractive and The invisible man with a force field that pushed people away. Johnny would be the young genius hot head but his temper would cause him to become the thing and that couldn’t think until he calmed down and became himself again. Reed would stay elastic because he’s wishy-washy and has no confidence. I could have a lot of fun writin stories with a dysfunctional group like that.
Screaming Dean The 1990’s FF Corman film just never came up to the grandeur of the comic, somehow I think Kirby’s reaction to it would have been about the same as both his and Joe Simon’s was to the 1990’s Captain America movie, complete contempt for it.
When I was a kid, what I really enjoyed about the F.F., was that they were the first superheroes who did not rely on a secret identity. That brought an entirely new dynamic to the comic book world.
As a 30 year old looking to be a life long Fantastic Four collector, this documentary/interview is so important and I will return to it at some point probably 15-20 years from now. This and Jack Kirby interviews.
I think the reason why the book does so well is because these characters are really four parts of one person. Read is the brain, Ben is the body, obviously, Sue is the heart, and Johnny is the soul. And what makes that so unique is that those roles are interchangeable depending on the situation. They really have pieces of each other shared amongst them and that’s why they work so well as a team and that’s why they’re in essence a family. Every character is relatable in their own obstacles and challenges and personal problems. Their humanity is what holds the reader. They are not perfect and in that imperfection lies the gold that has kept this team, this family, afloat since 1961. The idea of the anti-justice league worked so well that’s almost 80 years later we are still reading the fantastic four. And the thing is, depending upon, even if the book didn’t work it would still be considered a monster comic. Stan would have won either way. If it had gone the way of the monster comic then it would have redefined the horror comic instead of the superhero archetype. End it all depends upon getting the right artist and the right writer to put out this book. The essence of the fantastic four has always been an exploration and discovery, and the current team captures that perfectly. And now with Franklin and Valaria both teenagers, it adds additional dimension to the stories. Even the marriage of been and Alicia has added dimension because it’s progression; now we can examine what happens if Ben and Alicia decide to have a family of their own. We’ve already seen in the MC2 universe of the effects of the cosmic rays on Ben’s kids but that’s just one opinion. And of course he was married to a different woman. The history of this team is so vast that you can take inspiration from any story and even provide a follow up to it or expand upon it. The basic premise has become an ingenious idea that has redefined let means to be a superhero and gave birth to the over arching Marvel universe. We owe a lot to the fantastic four and we have yet to see them giving their due on the big screen. I truly hope that I get to see it during my lifetime. And dammit I want to see Alex Ross draw an entire issue of the modern day fantastic four. He is the guy to do this. Or at least put them on the cover duties that he’s been doing for the hulk. And Spiderman before him.
~24:00 - George Perez saying he wasn't as good in his 20s when he was doing FF, then they show some pictures of those books and I'm floored at how awesome he already was.
@@MEDZFactor He did absolutely killer backgrounds and buildings, but his figures needed improvement. It's cool to hear him admit this. It really bugged me until right around X-Men annual 3, when his work really came together. He's been a favorite of mine ever since.
WOW. I grew up on John Byrne’s Fantastic Four (and his artist runs on Avengers, X-Men, and Captain America, among others) and this documentary crashed for me without him. I’ve heard, though I can't say whether it's true, that he’s a difficult personality. But regardless, it's a real shame he doesn’t give us his time here.
The Fantastic Four is one of the greatest comic ever conceived ; The Avengers and The Justice League maybe more popular than the F.F. or have more powerful members but the F.F. were a family and had problems they were more than a Super Hero team and some times they lost and came up short but they continued too move forward even through difficult continue to shine as heroes excelseor
What makes the F.F. for me, is Benjamin J. GRIMM. His sense of humor wonderful. He is one big and bad dude, and he is one of the funniest THINGS in the world. Of course that is Stan and Jack's personality. I love them both.
Either of the Hernandez brothers is the GOAT(s) of comic art, but DITKO and Kirby are trailblazers, amongst some 20-25 others back then. DITKO and Kirby just happened to hit at exactly the right time and not cut corners in their ways. Fortuitous and timely.
Too many people jumping on the 'It was all Kirby' bandwagon. Yes, Kirby contributed so, so much, but those characters didn't exist at all until Stan thought of them.
I ARE DUNECAT To create something that idea has to start with you - building on that idea, embellishing it, designing it, isn't creating, it's contributing.
I am in agreement about that. Sadly, the FF stock has gone down in Marvel canon I believe partly due to the less than spectacular movies that came out. Not issue for me because I'm not big fan of live action superhero movies anyhow. I prefer to remember them in realm of the comic books. The original run with Kirby and Lee will remain my favorite incarnation.
Ahhh... the epic fantastic four. The level of humanity and wonder from such a composite of the american way. Beautiful. Best damn comic series when jAck and Stan and for about a hundred issues afterward of all time.
Got the first 30 or so issues in the masterworks… honestly almost teared up right before doom issue… there was so much heart in these incredible comics…. God bless marvel and they’re amazing genius artists/writers. Kirby rip. Thank you.
During the 70's I remember going across the street to the store with my Mom. There was a pharmacy that was connected on the left hand side. I'd look for the newest comic books. Captain America and the Falcon, Iron-Man, 🕷🕸Spider-Man🕸🕷, and some others were always on the wish lists. I had the Mego Superheroes action figures. I was a total Marvel fanatic. Jack Kirby and Stan Lee were the best all-time favorite comic book creators. They are legendary! Truly magical stories, characters, and ideas. Stan Lee's ability to create such obscure, crazy, but grounded heroes was amazing. Kirby as well. They literally made the 60's and 70's special for millions of kids. 🙏🕊RIP🕊🙏 to them. Their work will live on forever!
Please notice how the four ancient Greek elements are represented in the Fantastic Four. Fire is obvious, as is earth. Air is invisible, and water is fluid. You can fill in the blanks.:)
This is so cool I haven't seen this documentary before the Fantastic Four are marvel team thank you for posting this look forward to watching other documentaries I love watching documentaries about comics since I am a huge comic book fan I love the stories behind the creation of my favorite characters!
I like the idea that they are all Geniuses - but Reed throws off the curve so hard that they seem less intelligent by comparison - especially Ben. Like, if someone was to ask him science-y stuff they would be shocked at how much he knows and can talk about -- he IS a goddamn Astronaut for pete's sake!
If you look at the first 25 years of the comics, only Reed was ever depicted as a genius. The others have average or slightly above average intelligence.
Kirby Continuum Ben is pretty much a dumb grunt, rather embarrassingly so. Reed was way over the top genius. I kinda liked the direction fan4stick went, (before it turned into hot garbage), but Ben should’ve been smarter, like an engineer and a collaborative partner. I hope the MCU makes some creative choices that makes them palatable for today’s audience.
Kirby was a legend and will always remain so. I liked Stan Lee, but his real talent was as a marketer, not an artist. Kirby should have been given WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more credit--and money--than he ever received, but the industry then was to use the artists as hires and nothing more. Things are different now, I guess, but back then, artists were shunted aside for the greater good of the company. To me, Kirby is #1; everyone else pales beside him. There are other great artists--Steve Ditko, Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane, et. al.--but Kirby topped 'em all.
It’s amazing that Jack Kirby’s family managed to convince a court that they were entitled to royalties for all of the Marvel characters that Jack created, which were actually considered “works for hire” at the time they were made.
Stan agreed.....with a little help but he always admitted to jack being co creator he just was selling his product but to jack it was a lot more but both loved just in a different way bless them both
@@davepowell4216 oh yeah I totally buy that. I've looked at the side-by-side comparisons of some books where people try to determine who did what, and obviously we can see Jack's own dialogue in the later DC stuff. Obviously Stan was a brilliant writer who gave voice to a generation of characters who still resonate with people worldwide. That said, my bias will always be with Kirby. Even on the books where Lee wrote great, punchy dialogue, the shot-by-shot storytelling was mostly Kirby, working from a loose plot by Lee. That's my understanding anyway.
@@davepowell4216 well, if i gave you the original Stan script then youll see just how little it had to do with the actual finish product that Kirby return...All of the following are considered plagiarism: turning in someone else's work as your own. copying words or ideas from someone else without giving credit. ...
@@lyndoncmp5751 Before Stan? Captain America, Newsboy Legion, invented the genre of romance comics with Joe Simon, Challengers of the Unknown. etc. After Stan?. The entire NEW GODS saga. Mr Miracle, Darkseid,Orion, Mr. Miracle, etc. Kamandi, the Demon, Sandman. etc.
@@davidlindsay9564 I rest my case. Total average/mediocrity, Captain America apart. Sorry. Same with Steve Ditko. Both did little of note away from Stan. And I'm talking creations/ideas that took off and lasted. Even as an artist, his art for Fantastic Four was average before Joe Sinnott started inking him and that's a fact.
@@lyndoncmp5751 I'd hardly call the New Gods mediocre. However short the list is of best comics of the 70s. New Gods is on it. What they did is still in play, still in print, still relevant, still resonates. Darkseid alone. The world still hasn't caught up to Jack. The New Gods are only now getting their due. What did Stan do without them? Lightspeed? Stan had every advantage, and everything he did tanked, "Just Imagine" and "Striperella" were high profile, and mean nothing, Dirko's Mr. A, was self published and very limited, and it has a strong following. Stan was a good ecitor, and ok scripter.
no problem writing fantastic four characters ? no way ! how can he write about four super powered people and keep them as a team: that's why stan lee was so great, he can make the story and the action work. pure genius.
Guess Byrne declined an interview at the time. They did add a nice art collage of his run that gives an idea of the feel and scope of the man's work on the book.
Byrne's unpredictable and difficult. This also might have been made during the tumult surrounding one of his "outbursts". I used to really enjoy him, but now I just can't look at his stuff.
I can imagine why people love and read the old comics. It's because that's where they're favourite heroes originated from and it's where they're bests stories are told from. The stories that define those characters.
If you want the real story of the creation of Galactus, watch Jack Kirby's interview on the documentary called masters of comic book art!............"NUFF SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!."
Indeed. Thanks for directing me to that documentary. Kirby does tell a different story than Stan Lee. Galactus and the Silver Surfer are Jack Kirby's idea, NOT STAN LEE! It's pretty obvious when you read his New Gods stories..
Guys like Stan Lee and Gene Roddenberry are vilified by a certain sub-set of fandom because in addition to being men of incredible vision and originality they were also hucksters. They knew that what they'd made had to sell, so they went out there and sold it. Without Stan there would have been no Marvel universe, just as without Roddenberry there would have been no Star Trek. Why can some fans only love creative people who are victims of their own success? I love Steve Ditko more than any other artist; I first discovered him in 1967 and no one has ever supplanted him in my affections or estimations. But Steve Ditko didn't make Spider-Man a success story that has lasted more than half a century: Stan Lee did. Stan gave men (and occasionally women) of towering talent a place to ply their trade. When people complain that Kirby and Ditko never owned what they made, they seem to forget that Stan Lee owns none of those things either. Stan understood that Marvel needed a face, a voice, that the readers could identify with, and since he was a writer he became that face and that voice. If he'd been a no-talent hack then the complaints about him would be justified. But he was as big a talent in his own right as any of the people he worked with. He had three great talents: he was an ideas man, a script writer, and a salesman. Why does that last have to cancel out all the plaudits he deserves for the first two?
Imagine going to the Louvre To see The Mona Lisa But instead you will find a description tag "Monsa Lisa Smiling in front of a River, Leonardo Da Vinci" Would that be the same as looking at the paiting? Similar to comics they are nothing with the Art and The Artists Stan Lee gets more credit than he deserved
I grew up in the sixties and collected Marvel comics first passed down s from my older brother the early ones from 64' when the panels were smaller it seemed that his art was had less detail but by 68' his art changed to masterpieces . In my opinion , Kirby working with Steranko in 65 on Nick Fury agent of Shield ' seemed to both improved off each other . From Thor to FF to Captain America turned into bigger panels and even full page art . Kirby's art had more detail and the way he drew machines was awesome . Look at the torch and the Thing at 64' compared to them in 68' , big difference . Kirby and Lee's stories were made for each other .
Thanks , about 10 years ago I bought a few Marvel Masterworks and they brought back memories . Captain America #3 is one of my favorites before Kirby left and a few Essential FF books featuring his work too . As a kid I was in the Marvel fan club and bought posters and stuff . Too bad I lost all that stuff over time .
I couldn't afford the posters and stuff because I had to save all my money for the comics; that is, one dollar a month, which would get you all 8 Marvel superhero books.
Its seems you made up for it over the years . I envy your collection and like your posts . My parents were divorced and my Mom gave my a small allowance if I kept my grades up . Thanks to comics , before grade school I would look at the pictures which made me want to read ,even though it was easy to figure out . One that comes to mind was The X-Men #45 and a few years ago bought the paperback # 3 of Marvel Masterworks which had that issue and the back story of the Iceman . and 8 more along with Sterankos issue . Do you have any issues of the original Ghost Rider , drawn by Gary Friedich ? Stan Lee wont authorize any of his work to be reprinted .
Dan, what you're seeing for the most part is my digital Kirby collection, not my paper collection. Although at one time I had every comic Kirby drew from 1956 through his '70s Marvel run, I had to sell them for financial reasons. I kept a few childhood favorites such as FF #25 and Avengers #6, but now I have to be content with my digital collection and the Omnibus and other reprints. As for Ghost Rider, which was written by Friedrich but drawn by Dick Ayers, I do happen to have issue #4. I didn't know Stan wouldn't allow reprints. Why not?
@@kirbycontinuum5700 Agreed. Stan had gift of gab therefore he became de facto figurehead for Marvel, which is why to a lot of mainstream press/media incorrectly assumed he created everything at Marvel.
50 years ago when I was 5 years old, it always appeared that Stan Lee did it all. With all we know now I think it's safe to say Jack played much more prominent role in creation of those books than Stan led us to believe. Same could be said for Ditko and many of other Marvel artist.
@@ultrainferno.If Lee wrote all of the dialog, then your comment that the FF was "literally all Kirby" is blatantly wrong. Do people not even understand what 'literally' means?
Film adaptations are always so small compared to what exists in those little paper panels. And the revisions of the characters perpetrated by people without a hundredth of the creator's vision and expression are limp beyond words.
Oh, Man! Jack Kirby created Stan Lee. They were a good team. However, it was Kirby who created those comics and wrote the stories. Stan was the editor. Jack was the king.
@@lyndoncmp5751 stan only came up with the name, ditko created everything else. Like bob kane came up with the name of batman and the first concept( which looked awful). So Bill finger was called and made everything what batman is today.
My three fav Marvel chars are Mr. Fantastic, Cyclops and Captain America. The BLUE LEADERSHIP as I call them.xD I wish Jack Kirby would have don a story with those three amigos facing some worldwide dangerous villain who for some reason neutralized all the other heroes, and it was up to the three leaders to save the world.xD
I've always been a Kirby fan, but now I think I've got a few books to hunt down. I've been a Jim Lee fan since I was ten, didnt even know he had an FF run. thank you for the upload!
Ok I finally had to stop at 54:49. Though I’ve never been big into comics, my cousin was- he started collecting Marvel as a kid in the 60’s and 70’s-but what I found appealing about those comics was the “noirish” mystery and mystique of the artwork, storylines, and characters. Sadly, it seems that the latest trend to make them more accessible and relatable also makes them less fanciful and mystical. On a side note- RIP “ Alien” and “Star Wars.”
Stan's gotten so much heat for some of the things he said back in the 60's & 70's that now he's very generous with doling out praise for all the artists he worked with and sharing the credit with them. I'm glad that Stan graciously helped resolve their differences and acted so positively afterward. He was such a huge character growing up in the 60's-70's and like the Beatles, the positive way he chose to present himself as he got older was an appreciated counterpoint to all the vile behavior exhibited in so many others in the public arena and even in the white house today. .
@@dionmcgee5610 BS. He has been an even bigger credit hog since Jack died. He's like the Beatles? No, its like if Brian Espstein and George Martin got ALL rhe credit and people didn't now who John and Paul are.
@@dionmcgee5610 Well said Dion. Kirby, like Ditko, was mediocre without Stan. I mean, what did either of them accomplish without Stan? Not much. Stan, in contrast, accomplished plenty without either of them. The common denominator is Stan.
@@davidlindsay9564 I don't want to argue the point too much, because Stan's ego may have been bigger than my own, but if you were around in the late 60s early 70s, even without the internet, word got around about how Stan was taking all the credit for Marvel's creations, and so their success. Some of that may have been the fault of the interviewers who questioned him, as they always need an angle to sell their editors, and feel good stories of 'human beings working together as equals' doesn't rate high in the american philosophy. so there would have been a bias for the "one man does it all" kind of story- but back then Stan didn't have too much of a problem with that, at least so it seemed from the readers vantage point. But after years of getting flack for his attitude, it seemed, superficially at least, Stan had come around to appreciate the work his artists had done. Getting older, and hopefully wiser, we should all reach that level of maturity and be able to acknowledge the limitations we each, as individuals, carry with ourselves throughout life. Stan has always been a bit of an egomaniac, which is, undoubtedly, part of the reasons for his success. That egotism can cause casual observers to misinterpret a persons actions to varying degrees. Point being, stating he was more of a credit hog later in his life is most likely untrue- if for the only reason of what a credit hog he had been earlier in his life.
@@dionmcgee5610 thats the problem "come around to appreciate the work the artist had done" it wasn't like Stan wrote Alan Moore style, and merely hired the artist. The "marvel method" puts 90% of the creating writing and story telling on the artist. You can see original art and Kirby has the dialogue written in the margins most of the tie. Which freed up more time for Stan to over see everything, and to take credit. Read up about why Wally Wood quit. Despite being a credit hog, everybody knew who did what, at least in fandom up through the 80s. Since Jack died, Stan has changed his tune "you know the creator is the guy who came up with the idea, you don't give the actors credit for what Shakespeare wrote" He NEVER would have said crap like that while Jack was alive. I challenge anybody to form a partnership and create a comic, I'll do Stan's part, you do Jack/Steve's part, and then in a few months see how they feel about who did what then. Stand a charming guy. but he never would have made it without them, and he should've acted like it. You don't see McCartney minimizing Lennon, but thats what its like, Its like Lennon has been forgotten. and McCartney did everything. Stan should be the one fighting for Kirby and Ditko to get some type of "cameos" in the movies. Its only been since mid-90s that its been that way. Stan is selfish, he should have stuck by the guys in the 60s and done the right thing, but he didn't.
When was his documentary made? I love it. The FF were my first comic love. This makes me want to go back and reread all those comics, see what I missed. Thanks to all the artists and writers, particularly Kirby who started it all.
It's so sad that Marvel does not think is profitable to invest in this characters. They are rejecting their foundation because they can't exploit movie rights. These days, more than ever in its history, Marvel is at the mercy of ruthless corporate people battling each other.
14:41 after I heard that Stan appropriated the character that Jack had created and not only gave it an origin that completely contradicted the one Jack had in mind, but also gave the book to John Buscema instead,, it just became one more nail in the coffin that was already building for my lack of trust and respect for Stan. And that was very recent. Rosalind, Jack's wife, was wise when she said to him after this it happened, no more silver surfers" for Stan. In other words no more ad libbing from the loose plot he put out as part of the method." It did not have to be like that. I wonder if Romita knows about this. I wonder how many "crazy promises" Stan appropriated from Jack
Wish the vid extended into the Bryan Hitch drawn issues. John Byrnes run was just below Jack & Stan's. And George Perez pencils coupled with Sinnots inks were 🌞💥💖💓
"... so Reed Richards is intelligent, but we need to SHOW the readers that he is, how can we do that? I know, let's put a pair of glasses on him!" - Well I guess that proves that comic readers of today have been REALLY dumbed down!
It’s so interesting to see Stan Lee lying through his teeth by saying this was all his idea. Only years later do we now know that Jack Kirby did almost all of the work
Nice for Stan to admit that The Silver Surfer was created solely by Kirby.
True, but he still appropriated the character and gave it an origin that was unlike what Jack had in mind. Jack's original concept for the surfer was a being created from pure energy. now granted the origin that Stan provided was better, it was still Jack's right and I know the stand could've done something with a dialogue to make Jack's origin flourish. But no, and then dad insult to injury he gave the spinoff book to John Buscema instead of Jack.
@@Artisan1979 Lee's back story on the Surfer is rubbish really. Like a lot of stuff he just blunted the edges.
The whole Stan Lee / Jack Kirby rivalry is all media hype. Yea, they had a falling out. Yea, they ended up making amends. But beyond that, it's all fanboyism on who's better than who. Want the real skinny? Marvel wouldn't have survived without Lee. He was the face. He knew how to read the times and see what people wanted. He knew how to market. Marvel wouldn't have survived without Kirby. He knew how to take the roughest of rough ideas and turn it into gold. If either hadn't been at Marvel when they were, we'd not have Marvel and we certainly wouldn't have any of the characters we do now.
@@WalkerRileyMC No. Stan being seen as the sole creator is the media hype. It didn't use to be that way. The Marvel universe would have existed without Stan, it would have just been doe elsewhere and maybe it wouldn't have been as good. Its not a big step from FF to the New Gods. But Stan would be nothing without Jack, he got lucky, they had a chemistry that was bigger than the sum of the parts. But Stan was just a hack writer who was seen as a poor mans Kurtzman without the humor. He was a Sammy Glick type. He lucked out with Jsck and Steve, but hogs too much credit. His post Jack work for the next40 years was one failure after another. They didn't make amends really, Yeah they'd shake hands but when Stan suggested at a party they work together again, Roz shut that down then and there, and good for her. Stan has never been gracious, everytime someone says "You created..." the first words out of his mouth should be "Co-creatd, with Jack..." but he doesn't do that. Stan was a credit hog. period.
@@WalkerRileyMC you gave a good point
There was just something about Jack Kirby's art that made those comic books come alive for me. I just couldn't get enough of the Silver Surfer or Dr. Doom.
so u emphasis more how they look rather than the story?
@@Moodboard39 the story was also amazing
@@jyetaylor6898 definitely
This is one of the Best Documentaries on Comics that I've ever seen.
PEREZ-"You can't do the FF without doing it Kirby's way".
And the movie studios don't understand why the films have failed FOUR times.
Truer words have never been spoken!
You make a good point, but the first movie that came out in the 90's wasn't all that bad.
The 1st 2 films were pretti damn good the 2015 film is a tremendous horrible mistake
Screaming Dean I liked it. Found it on CZcams. You know what I’d do if I was to make a new FF. I’d change the powers around. I’d make Sue the Torch cuz she’d be hot and extroverted. Ben would be introverted, shy, unattractive and The invisible man with a force field that pushed people away. Johnny would be the young genius hot head but his temper would cause him to become the thing and that couldn’t think until he calmed down and became himself again. Reed would stay elastic because he’s wishy-washy and has no confidence. I could have a lot of fun writin stories with a dysfunctional group like that.
Screaming Dean The 1990’s FF Corman film just never came up to the grandeur of the comic, somehow I think Kirby’s reaction to it would have been about the same as both his and Joe Simon’s was to the 1990’s Captain America movie, complete contempt for it.
When I was a kid, what I really enjoyed about the F.F., was that they were the first superheroes who did not rely on a secret identity. That brought an entirely new dynamic to the comic book world.
And, for the record, Dr. Doom was around WAY before Darth Vader.
Darth Doom? Doctor Vader? Doctor Darth Doom?
Who in their right mind would suggest Vader predated Doc Doom? HAHA
@@dionmcgee5610 Vader von Doom!
@@gaminawulfsdottir3253 whatever happened to Darth Skywalker?
@@dionmcgee5610 He became one with the X-Force.
As a 30 year old looking to be a life long Fantastic Four collector, this documentary/interview is so important and I will return to it at some point probably 15-20 years from now. This and Jack Kirby interviews.
Kirby was truly a master designer, nobody today can come up with as many concepts like the King.
I think the reason why the book does so well is because these characters are really four parts of one person. Read is the brain, Ben is the body, obviously, Sue is the heart, and Johnny is the soul. And what makes that so unique is that those roles are interchangeable depending on the situation. They really have pieces of each other shared amongst them and that’s why they work so well as a team and that’s why they’re in essence a family. Every character is relatable in their own obstacles and challenges and personal problems. Their humanity is what holds the reader. They are not perfect and in that imperfection lies the gold that has kept this team, this family, afloat since 1961. The idea of the anti-justice league worked so well that’s almost 80 years later we are still reading the fantastic four. And the thing is, depending upon, even if the book didn’t work it would still be considered a monster comic. Stan would have won either way. If it had gone the way of the monster comic then it would have redefined the horror comic instead of the superhero archetype. End it all depends upon getting the right artist and the right writer to put out this book. The essence of the fantastic four has always been an exploration and discovery, and the current team captures that perfectly. And now with Franklin and Valaria both teenagers, it adds additional dimension to the stories. Even the marriage of been and Alicia has added dimension because it’s progression; now we can examine what happens if Ben and Alicia decide to have a family of their own. We’ve already seen in the MC2 universe of the effects of the cosmic rays on Ben’s kids but that’s just one opinion. And of course he was married to a different woman. The history of this team is so vast that you can take inspiration from any story and even provide a follow up to it or expand upon it. The basic premise has become an ingenious idea that has redefined let means to be a superhero and gave birth to the over arching Marvel universe. We owe a lot to the fantastic four and we have yet to see them giving their due on the big screen. I truly hope that I get to see it during my lifetime. And dammit I want to see Alex Ross draw an entire issue of the modern day fantastic four. He is the guy to do this. Or at least put them on the cover duties that he’s been doing for the hulk. And Spiderman before him.
Wherever they are, surely they are creating amazing comic books. RIP Stan Lee Jack Kirby. Your legacy lives on
~24:00 - George Perez saying he wasn't as good in his 20s when he was doing FF, then they show some pictures of those books and I'm floored at how awesome he already was.
allluckyseven I know right.
@@MEDZFactor He did absolutely killer backgrounds and buildings, but his figures needed improvement. It's cool to hear him admit this. It really bugged me until right around X-Men annual 3, when his work really came together. He's been a favorite of mine ever since.
The mans a wizard
RIP
Damn, this was an insightful documentary. Really outstanding dissection of the FF. Thanks for posting this.
You're welcome.
Jack Kirby will live FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But he die
you said it right in life if you can do one thing and be remembered 100 years from now then you have done something.. yes he will live on forever
@@artknight8023 but he SPIRIT live on YA shmuck
@@artknight8023 HIS IDEAS...HIS INTERPRETATIONS.....HIS H.I H.I STORY!!!!!!!
God bless you Stan " the man " Lee and Jack " the king " Kirby . Absolute legends
No just jack
Stan Lee was scum good riddance. Man stole the credit/income from so many creators.
These guys have been entertaining me for over 50 years, thank you all. Rip Stan and Jack.
Just jack
R.I.P Stan Lee I hope the MCU fantastic four will make you proud.
Happy 100th Birthday Jack. :-) 1917-2017
Fun stuff! I'm glad I could be a small part of the FF! Good times.
Wait, are you THE Art Thibert? The one who did art for Ultimate Spiderman? That's awesome!!
Your run with Claremont and Larroca were some of my favorite comics as a kid.
New Fantastic!!
WOW. I grew up on John Byrne’s Fantastic Four (and his artist runs on Avengers, X-Men, and Captain America, among others) and this documentary crashed for me without him. I’ve heard, though I can't say whether it's true, that he’s a difficult personality. But regardless, it's a real shame he doesn’t give us his time here.
The Fantastic Four is one of the greatest comic ever conceived ; The Avengers and The Justice League maybe more popular than the F.F. or have more powerful members but the F.F. were a family and had problems they were more than a Super Hero team and some times they lost and came up short but they continued too move forward even through difficult continue to shine as heroes excelseor
I wonder if Ralph Macchio's coworkers made any Karate Kid jokes while working on the Fantastic Four
Nice story enhanced by Jack's great art. Thanks so much for sharing this gem with us.
You're welcome, rundoetx.
What makes the F.F. for me, is Benjamin J. GRIMM. His sense of humor wonderful. He is one big and bad dude, and he is one of the funniest THINGS in the world. Of course that is Stan and Jack's personality. I love them both.
Either of the Hernandez brothers is the GOAT(s) of comic art, but DITKO and Kirby are trailblazers, amongst some 20-25 others back then. DITKO and Kirby just happened to hit at exactly the right time and not cut corners in their ways. Fortuitous and timely.
I'm a proud FF fan! I admit it! They're my favorite Marvel superteam!
Too many people jumping on the 'It was all Kirby' bandwagon. Yes, Kirby contributed so, so much, but those characters didn't exist at all until Stan thought of them.
Created, not 'contributed'.
Thought of ripping off Challengers of the Unknown
I ARE DUNECAT To create something that idea has to start with you - building on that idea, embellishing it, designing it, isn't creating, it's contributing.
@@i.are.dunecat You're saying that Stan created and Jack contributed, right? Because that is an obvious and objective fact.
omg im in love.. lol what an awesome documentary thank u for the share . I'm still to this day in awe of the kings artful style of work ...wow
Marvel's first family has always been one of my favorites ...
I am in agreement about that. Sadly, the FF stock has gone down in Marvel canon I believe partly due to the less than spectacular movies that came out. Not issue for me because I'm not big fan of live action superhero movies anyhow. I prefer to remember them in realm of the comic books. The original run with Kirby and Lee will remain my favorite incarnation.
Ahhh... the epic fantastic four. The level of humanity and wonder from such a composite of the american way. Beautiful. Best damn comic series when jAck and Stan and for about a hundred issues afterward of all time.
i wish i would have been aware of how awesome Walt Simonson is back in the 80s when i was a kid....
Really enjoyed seeing the evoluton of the artwork from the old web press to the new electronic print method.
Got the first 30 or so issues in the masterworks… honestly almost teared up right before doom issue… there was so much heart in these incredible comics…. God bless marvel and they’re amazing genius artists/writers. Kirby rip. Thank you.
During the 70's I remember going across the street to the store with my Mom. There was a pharmacy that was connected on the left hand side. I'd look for the newest comic books. Captain America and the Falcon, Iron-Man, 🕷🕸Spider-Man🕸🕷, and some others were always on the wish lists. I had the Mego Superheroes action figures. I was a total Marvel fanatic. Jack Kirby and Stan Lee were the best all-time favorite comic book creators. They are legendary! Truly magical stories, characters, and ideas. Stan Lee's ability to create such obscure, crazy, but grounded heroes was amazing. Kirby as well. They literally made the 60's and 70's special for millions of kids. 🙏🕊RIP🕊🙏 to them. Their work will live on forever!
I grew up in the 60s and collected the FF and to me only Kirby could draw them .
Please notice how the four ancient Greek elements are represented in the Fantastic Four. Fire is obvious, as is earth. Air is invisible, and water is fluid. You can fill in the blanks.:)
This is so cool I haven't seen this documentary before the Fantastic Four are marvel team thank you for posting this look forward to watching other documentaries I love watching documentaries about comics since I am a huge comic book fan I love the stories behind the creation of my favorite characters!
I like the idea that they are all Geniuses - but Reed throws off the curve so hard that they seem less intelligent by comparison - especially Ben. Like, if someone was to ask him science-y stuff they would be shocked at how much he knows and can talk about -- he IS a goddamn Astronaut for pete's sake!
If you look at the first 25 years of the comics, only Reed was ever depicted as a genius. The others have average or slightly above average intelligence.
Kirby Continuum Ben is pretty much a dumb grunt, rather embarrassingly so. Reed was way over the top genius. I kinda liked the direction fan4stick went, (before it turned into hot garbage), but Ben should’ve been smarter, like an engineer and a collaborative partner. I hope the MCU makes some creative choices that makes them palatable for today’s audience.
Wow. They completely skipped Tom DeFalco's *60* issue run on the book. But they covered Jim Lee's abortive 12 issue run?
Good point!!!!!!!!
Yeah, I was waiting for it. Lot of stuff happened, good and bad, helmet Thing, FF vs FF, and lot more.
Yeah that and they glossed over Byrne’s legendary run - bummed.
Kirby was a legend and will always remain so. I liked Stan Lee, but his real talent was as a marketer, not an artist. Kirby should have been given WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more credit--and money--than he ever received, but the industry then was to use the artists as hires and nothing more. Things are different now, I guess, but back then, artists were shunted aside for the greater good of the company. To me, Kirby is #1; everyone else pales beside him. There are other great artists--Steve Ditko, Jim Lee, Todd McFarlane, et. al.--but Kirby topped 'em all.
Absolutely superb! Loved every darn minute! All hail the fabulous Fantastic Four!💜💓💓💔💕💖💗💘💝💛💙💙❤❤💙💚💛💛💛💝💘💗💖💖❤❤💚💗❤❤💙💚💘💗💙💗💖💕💕💔💗❤💖❤❤💗💘💔💓💖❤💖💘💚💘💙💛💖💔💓💜💜💔💖💘💝💕💗
Story Telling makes or breaks the comic book artist. Hmm. Nobody told the Image boys about that?
Hail King Kirby, long may he reign!
Jack king Kirby!!!!!!!! Nuff said!!!!!!!!
Rip Stan Lee
It’s amazing that Jack Kirby’s family managed to convince a court that they were entitled to royalties for all of the Marvel characters that Jack created, which were actually considered “works for hire” at the time they were made.
Stan agreed.....with a little help but he always admitted to jack being co creator he just was selling his product but to jack it was a lot more but both loved just in a different way bless them both
Walt Simonson is a genius
"I don't think the FF would have been *quite* as popular if Jack hadn't been the guy drawing it."
uhh no shit, Stan
If you've read Jack's copy (it's never been great), then you know that FF wouldn't have worked without Stan's words. SYNERGY
@@davepowell4216 oh yeah I totally buy that. I've looked at the side-by-side comparisons of some books where people try to determine who did what, and obviously we can see Jack's own dialogue in the later DC stuff. Obviously Stan was a brilliant writer who gave voice to a generation of characters who still resonate with people worldwide.
That said, my bias will always be with Kirby. Even on the books where Lee wrote great, punchy dialogue, the shot-by-shot storytelling was mostly Kirby, working from a loose plot by Lee. That's my understanding anyway.
i believe that lying was part of the job, Stan was just an employee, what they did to Steve Ditko was disgusting. Everyone knows the truth .
@@davepowell4216 well, if i gave you the original Stan script then youll see just how little it had to do with the actual finish product that Kirby return...All of the following are considered plagiarism:
turning in someone else's work as your own. copying words or ideas from someone else without giving credit. ...
@@danielgreen2788 I'm not trying to be an ass.. but please.. give me the original Stan script. I will back you up 100%
"So I didn't have to write a complete script"
You can say that again XD
aWesome documentary. going to book mark, return later. Such masters in one building creating comics.
George Perez So Humble 😭 RIP
VERY GOOD TO HEAR Stan Lee giving acknowledgment to the King Kirby
too little too late. and he is still taking too much credit.
@@davidlindsay9564 What did Kirby do without Stan?
@@lyndoncmp5751 Before Stan? Captain America, Newsboy Legion, invented the genre of romance comics with Joe Simon, Challengers of the Unknown. etc. After Stan?. The entire NEW GODS saga. Mr Miracle, Darkseid,Orion, Mr. Miracle, etc. Kamandi, the Demon, Sandman. etc.
@@davidlindsay9564 I rest my case. Total average/mediocrity, Captain America apart. Sorry. Same with Steve Ditko. Both did little of note away from Stan. And I'm talking creations/ideas that took off and lasted. Even as an artist, his art for Fantastic Four was average before Joe Sinnott started inking him and that's a fact.
@@lyndoncmp5751 I'd hardly call the New Gods mediocre. However short the list is of best comics of the 70s. New Gods is on it. What they did is still in play, still in print, still relevant, still resonates. Darkseid alone. The world still hasn't caught up to Jack. The New Gods are only now getting their due. What did Stan do without them? Lightspeed? Stan had every advantage, and everything he did tanked, "Just Imagine" and "Striperella" were high profile, and mean nothing, Dirko's Mr. A, was self published and very limited, and it has a strong following. Stan was a good ecitor, and ok scripter.
no problem writing fantastic four characters ? no way ! how can he write about four super powered people and keep them as a team: that's why stan lee was so great, he can make the story and the action work. pure genius.
great documentary!
Wow. How disappointing that they don't talk about the Byrne run at all.
wrlord I’d kill for a little coverage on Walt Simonson’s Thor run, even though this pretty much covers the FF.
Guess Byrne declined an interview at the time. They did add a nice art collage of his run that gives an idea of the feel and scope of the man's work on the book.
Byrne's unpredictable and difficult. This also might have been made during the tumult surrounding one of his "outbursts". I used to really enjoy him, but now I just can't look at his stuff.
no mention of Kirby for first 10 min almost. Byrne likely declined to be interviewed.
@@electrojones why? separate the art from the artist. Byrne is Byrne, he is so under rated now.
I can imagine why people love and read the old comics. It's because that's where they're favourite heroes originated from and it's where they're bests stories are told from. The stories that define those characters.
A great documentary. Thanks for posting!
You're welcome.
This was just freaking awesome!!!
damn i need that dude’s F4 hat at the beginning of the video
"I came up with this character Galactus. " Sure you did Stan, sure you did.
They both did
HAHAHA! that was my feeling as well when he said that.
He did. No joke.
Every time he speaks about jack Kirby Stan always says I and jack every time
John Byrne may be a complete tool to work with, but damn his artwork is absolutely perfect.
Amen, bummed they glossed over him in this doc - his FF run is my favorite
If you want the real story of the creation of Galactus, watch Jack Kirby's interview on the documentary called masters of comic book art!............"NUFF SAID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!."
Indeed. Thanks for directing me to that documentary. Kirby does tell a different story than Stan Lee. Galactus and the Silver Surfer are Jack Kirby's idea, NOT STAN LEE! It's pretty obvious when you read his New Gods stories..
Exactly
Just because Kirby said it must be truth, right?
Wesley Moreira Just because Stan said it must be truth, right?
35:43 Alex “The Boss” Ross
The Thing's not really ugly, he's just a rock with feelings.
So THAT'S why Stan was always smiling!
Guys like Stan Lee and Gene Roddenberry are vilified by a certain sub-set of fandom because in addition to being men of incredible vision and originality they were also hucksters. They knew that what they'd made had to sell, so they went out there and sold it. Without Stan there would have been no Marvel universe, just as without Roddenberry there would have been no Star Trek. Why can some fans only love creative people who are victims of their own success? I love Steve Ditko more than any other artist; I first discovered him in 1967 and no one has ever supplanted him in my affections or estimations. But Steve Ditko didn't make Spider-Man a success story that has lasted more than half a century: Stan Lee did. Stan gave men (and occasionally women) of towering talent a place to ply their trade. When people complain that Kirby and Ditko never owned what they made, they seem to forget that Stan Lee owns none of those things either. Stan understood that Marvel needed a face, a voice, that the readers could identify with, and since he was a writer he became that face and that voice. If he'd been a no-talent hack then the complaints about him would be justified. But he was as big a talent in his own right as any of the people he worked with. He had three great talents: he was an ideas man, a script writer, and a salesman. Why does that last have to cancel out all the plaudits he deserves for the first two?
Imagine going to the Louvre
To see The Mona Lisa
But instead you will find a description tag "Monsa Lisa Smiling in front of a River, Leonardo Da Vinci"
Would that be the same as looking at the paiting? Similar to comics they are nothing with the Art and The Artists
Stan Lee gets more credit than he deserved
Also Stan Lee was hired because his cousin in law owned timely comics
Dan Slott is a genius, and has revitalized this comic.
I grew up in the sixties and collected Marvel comics first passed down s from my older brother the early ones from 64' when the panels were smaller it seemed that his art was had less detail but by 68' his art changed to masterpieces . In my opinion , Kirby working with Steranko in 65 on Nick Fury agent of Shield ' seemed to both improved off each other . From Thor to FF to Captain America turned into bigger panels and even full page art . Kirby's art had more detail and the way he drew machines was awesome . Look at the torch and the Thing at 64' compared to them in 68' , big difference . Kirby and Lee's stories were made for each other .
Nice comments with a personal touch.
Thanks , about 10 years ago I bought a few Marvel Masterworks and they brought back memories . Captain America #3 is one of my favorites before Kirby left and a few Essential FF books featuring his work too . As a kid I was in the Marvel fan club and bought posters and stuff . Too bad I lost all that stuff over time .
I couldn't afford the posters and stuff because I had to save all my money for the comics; that is, one dollar a month, which would get you all 8 Marvel superhero books.
Its seems you made up for it over the years . I envy your collection and like your posts . My parents were divorced and my Mom gave my a small allowance if I kept my grades up . Thanks to comics , before grade school I would look at the pictures which made me want to read ,even though it was easy to figure out . One that comes to mind was The X-Men #45 and a few years ago bought the paperback # 3 of Marvel Masterworks which had that issue and the back story of the Iceman . and 8 more along with Sterankos issue . Do you have any issues of the original Ghost Rider , drawn by Gary Friedich ? Stan Lee wont authorize any of his work to be reprinted .
Dan, what you're seeing for the most part is my digital Kirby collection, not my paper collection. Although at one time I had every comic Kirby drew from 1956 through his '70s Marvel run, I had to sell them for financial reasons. I kept a few childhood favorites such as FF #25 and Avengers #6, but now I have to be content with my digital collection and the Omnibus and other reprints. As for Ghost Rider, which was written by Friedrich but drawn by Dick Ayers, I do happen to have issue #4. I didn't know Stan wouldn't allow reprints. Why not?
Why was there no interview with John Byrne? His run on the Fantastic Four was that comic's greatest since Stan and Jack broke up.
Byrne was a "giant" in the 80s
I got Stan to sign my Fantastic Four issue #1 just before he passed.
This is so awesome!!! Thank you
You're welcome, SD.
Lee taking all the credit he can is maddening....really wish there had been more Kirby interviews
He wasn't really a good interviewee.
@@kirbycontinuum5700 Agreed. Stan had gift of gab therefore he became de facto figurehead for Marvel, which is why to a lot of mainstream press/media incorrectly assumed he created everything at Marvel.
Today was Kirby's birthday , long live the king! (of comics)
I love how Stan hogs all the credit for the FF when it was in reality about 90% Jack.
50 years ago when I was 5 years old, it always appeared that Stan Lee did it all. With all we know now I think it's safe to say Jack played much more prominent role in creation of those books than Stan led us to believe. Same could be said for Ditko and many of other Marvel artist.
No it was more like 40% Lee and 60% Jack. Stop acting like Lee had nothing to do with it.
@@andrewpytko4773 only thing lee did was the dialogue. jack did 90% of the work. The ff was literally all jack kirby.
@@ultrainferno.If Lee wrote all of the dialog, then your comment that the FF was "literally all Kirby" is blatantly wrong. Do people not even understand what 'literally' means?
Film adaptations are always so small compared to what exists in those little paper panels.
And the revisions of the characters perpetrated by people without a hundredth of the creator's vision and expression are limp beyond words.
Oh, Man! Jack Kirby created Stan Lee. They were a good team. However, it was Kirby who created those comics and wrote the stories. Stan was the editor. Jack was the king.
And what did Kirby do without Stan?
@@lyndoncmp5751 the question you should ask what Stan Lee created without Kirby?
@@ClanHellbone
Are you kidding? Spider-Man for starters.
@@lyndoncmp5751 stan only came up with the name, ditko created everything else. Like bob kane came up with the name of batman and the first concept( which looked awful). So Bill finger was called and made everything what batman is today.
@@ultrainferno.
Not true I'm afraid.
All my childhood heroes WOW
So much high art and genius on display. An embarassment of riches for Stan back in those days.
They need to bring back IOAN GRUFFUDD &JESSICA ALBA&MICHAEL CHIKLIS and ???? for the Fantastic Four .
And Andrew Garfield as human torch
Very good show and good job.........................
My three fav Marvel chars are Mr. Fantastic, Cyclops and Captain America. The BLUE LEADERSHIP as I call them.xD
I wish Jack Kirby would have don a story with those three amigos facing some worldwide dangerous villain who for some reason neutralized all the other heroes, and it was up to the three leaders to save the world.xD
And Silver Surfer has his own movie in T2 as the T-1000, minus the surf-board.
That's what I thought first time I saw T2.
"That's the silver surfer!"
I've always been a Kirby fan, but now I think I've got a few books to hunt down. I've been a Jim Lee fan since I was ten, didnt even know he had an FF run.
thank you for the upload!
Ok I finally had to stop at 54:49. Though I’ve never been big into comics, my cousin was- he started collecting Marvel as a kid in the 60’s and 70’s-but what I found appealing about those comics was the “noirish” mystery and mystique of the artwork, storylines, and characters. Sadly, it seems that the latest trend to make them more accessible and relatable also makes them less fanciful and mystical. On a side note- RIP “ Alien” and “Star Wars.”
Stan never says anything concrete...theirs always an escape route...
Stan's gotten so much heat for some of the things he said back in the 60's & 70's that now he's very generous with doling out praise for all the artists he worked with and sharing the credit with them.
I'm glad that Stan graciously helped resolve their differences and acted so positively afterward.
He was such a huge character growing up in the 60's-70's and like the Beatles, the positive way he chose to present himself as he got older was an appreciated counterpoint to all the vile behavior exhibited in so many others in the public arena and even in the white house today.
.
@@dionmcgee5610 BS. He has been an even bigger credit hog since Jack died. He's like the Beatles? No, its like if Brian Espstein and George Martin got ALL rhe credit and people didn't now who John and Paul are.
@@dionmcgee5610 Well said Dion. Kirby, like Ditko, was mediocre without Stan. I mean, what did either of them accomplish without Stan? Not much. Stan, in contrast, accomplished plenty without either of them. The common denominator is Stan.
@@davidlindsay9564 I don't want to argue the point too much, because Stan's ego may have been bigger than my own, but if you were around in the late 60s early 70s, even without the internet, word got around about how Stan was taking all the credit for Marvel's creations, and so their success. Some of that may have been the fault of the interviewers who questioned him, as they always need an angle to sell their editors, and feel good stories of 'human beings working together as equals' doesn't rate high in the american philosophy. so there would have been a bias for the "one man does it all" kind of story- but back then Stan didn't have too much of a problem with that, at least so it seemed from the readers vantage point.
But after years of getting flack for his attitude, it seemed, superficially at least, Stan had come around to appreciate the work his artists had done. Getting older, and hopefully wiser, we should all reach that level of maturity and be able to acknowledge the limitations we each, as individuals, carry with ourselves throughout life.
Stan has always been a bit of an egomaniac, which is, undoubtedly, part of the reasons for his success. That egotism can cause casual observers to misinterpret a persons actions to varying degrees. Point being, stating he was more of a credit hog later in his life is most likely untrue- if for the only reason of what a credit hog he had been earlier in his life.
@@dionmcgee5610 thats the problem "come around to appreciate the work the artist had done" it wasn't like Stan wrote Alan Moore style, and merely hired the artist. The "marvel method" puts 90% of the creating writing and story telling on the artist. You can see original art and Kirby has the dialogue written in the margins most of the tie. Which freed up more time for Stan to over see everything, and to take credit. Read up about why Wally Wood quit. Despite being a credit hog, everybody knew who did what, at least in fandom up through the 80s. Since Jack died, Stan has changed his tune "you know the creator is the guy who came up with the idea, you don't give the actors credit for what Shakespeare wrote" He NEVER would have said crap like that while Jack was alive. I challenge anybody to form a partnership and create a comic, I'll do Stan's part, you do Jack/Steve's part, and then in a few months see how they feel about who did what then. Stand a charming guy. but he never would have made it without them, and he should've acted like it. You don't see McCartney minimizing Lennon, but thats what its like, Its like Lennon has been forgotten. and McCartney did everything. Stan should be the one fighting for Kirby and Ditko to get some type of "cameos" in the movies. Its only been since mid-90s that its been that way. Stan is selfish, he should have stuck by the guys in the 60s and done the right thing, but he didn't.
When was his documentary made? I love it. The FF were my first comic love. This makes me want to go back and reread all those comics, see what I missed. Thanks to all the artists and writers, particularly Kirby who started it all.
It was released with the DVD of the 2005 FF movie.
Great documentary!
It's so sad that Marvel does not think is profitable to invest in this characters. They are rejecting their foundation because they can't exploit movie rights. These days, more than ever in its history, Marvel is at the mercy of ruthless corporate people battling each other.
Very cool, thanks.
You're welcome, a1orski.
Can Reed stretch his hair?
If so, then he also has Medusa's power. 😅
"my publisher"
Excuse me buddy, I think you mean, "my uncle"
Stan Lee was a good storyteller, especially when he said he saw a spider in his office and he created Spider-Man.
14:41 after I heard that Stan appropriated the character that Jack had created and not only gave it an origin that completely contradicted the one Jack had in mind, but also gave the book to John Buscema instead,, it just became one more nail in the coffin that was already building for my lack of trust and respect for Stan. And that was very recent. Rosalind, Jack's wife, was wise when she said to him after this it happened, no more silver surfers" for Stan. In other words no more ad libbing from the loose plot he put out as part of the method." It did not have to be like that. I wonder if Romita knows about this. I wonder how many "crazy promises" Stan appropriated from Jack
♦️ *Very well done.* ♦️
Watching this on the team’s 60th anniversary.
Mark Waid..."that's kind of the way I live now." Hahahahaaa
The 1960s were the very beginning of MARVEL the fantastic four Spider-Man Daredevil etc.
Wish the vid extended into the Bryan Hitch drawn issues. John Byrnes run was just below Jack & Stan's. And George Perez pencils coupled with Sinnots inks were 🌞💥💖💓
"... so Reed Richards is intelligent, but we need to SHOW the readers that he is, how can we do that? I know, let's put a pair of glasses on him!" - Well I guess that proves that comic readers of today have been REALLY dumbed down!
It’s so interesting to see Stan Lee lying through his teeth by saying this was all his idea. Only years later do we now know that Jack Kirby did almost all of the work
no mention of Jack for 9 min. such BS.
Very well made though it's a bit of a shame Byrne didn't make an appearance in person.