Absolutely ... Once, I was running a Pathfinder adventure that involved something of a mystery. One of the backstories of an NPC involved him being corrupted by a succubus, and suddenly the red-herring machinery fired up for one of the player characters, who was suddenly half-convinced there was a succubus behind everything. Luckily, the other PCs talked him down and things got back on track.
You all probably dont care at all but does someone know of a method to log back into an instagram account..? I somehow lost my account password. I appreciate any help you can give me.
I know this wasn't written as to be taken at face value, but splitting up is such good drama though, plus consider how a group of strangers (especially armed ones) are perceived as opposed to an individual or a pair. Very few people are forthcoming enough to interact openly with a group, especially if they have reason to fear them.
@@gossamera4665 I couldn't agree more, nothing had been more exciting in the games I've run or played in, than when players spilt up, especially from a difference of opinion.
Gossa Mera True! I’ve heard “don’t split the party” many times, but every time it happened to me as PC or DM, it really raised the stakes and got everyone more engaged
@@BobWorldBuilder I think the "don't split the party" thing comes from combat in an adventure being balanced around a full party. When only half a party gets into a fight it is twice as difficult as it should be and results in a wipe.
@@andrewpotter7514 Party splits also make the DM have to go back and forth between all separate groups for all the "meanwhiles." Players wind up sitting around with their thumbs up their asses.
I know that intro was supposed to be "... a man who has proven himself to be a cold ass villain. Who is guilty?" But I heard "Dweebles is a cold ass villain, who is guilty."
Just listened to that part again...and I think that was intentional!! I think Seth planned for us to think of it the first way, but he really DID mean it the 2nd way!! Man, he's a genius! You're pretty slick too, CitanulsPumpkin, for catching that! I didn't even think of it that way!!
My gf once ran a mystery one-shot where all the clues were really hard to find, so we didn't find them. After two hours of aimlessly wandering around, I told my pet bird to find the missing NPCs; he did, we busted them out, and then the campaign was over.
8:51 wow, a picture of lockpicking that ACTUALLY depicts lockpicking instead of someone jamming a couple of screwdrivers into the keyhole. Nice, I appreciate the attention for detail! ^^
Ever heard of the convention where the Call of Cthulu players on one table misinterpreted a red herring clue and went to Burma to continue their investigation into a drug dealer's supply lines and the GM just had to go with it while preventing them from realising they completely lost the plot?
Dude, you’re, hands down, the best RPG content creator on the platform. I have the mathematical equations to prove it! Honestly though, your skits are awesome and the videos are so well done. Huge fan, keep up the good work. Also, maybe perception checks could be used for more cheeky reveals if, for instance, a PC or multiple PCs might want to play a Sherlock Holmes like character and they meet an NPC for the first time. The DM could ask for a check roll, if they pass the result might be “You notice that the NPC rolls his own cigarettes because of the marks on his index finger.” Which would lead to a clue down the line. Sorry, just watched the 1983 BBC version of The Hounds of the Baskervilles, where this happens.
I recently used something along those lines when I had a pair of players roll a perception check to notice a glint of silver through a hole in a bag an NPC was carrying. That lead to them connecting some earlier dots and figuring out he'd been paid off to by a group they had encountered earlier. It didn't significantly alter the core plot, since they didn't have to know about this bribe, but it did lead to some fun roleplaying and helped them feel like they were putting the clues together.
Instead of perception, investigation. If someone wanted to play a Sherlock-like character, they may have gone into Investigation only for it to be unused by any DM that always says “Perception Check”
I like to use Investigation/perception or any of the other related clues like additional info. There are core infos i give out regardless of dice results or performance. And then there is addional info that isn't particular needed for solving the mystery, but gives more depth to the overall story.
“Charging off to Crazy Town with a head full of conspiracy theories.” Yeah, that was my last CoC players. Those guys would miss the obvious every time, invented insane theories, and got frustrated when they out found things like shooting at state police officers resulted in arrest and trial.
Your comment about multiple clues reminded me of something I saw in a 1980s copy of White Dwarf (e.g. when it was still a general RPG magazine...), the GM in the article said he'd keep a set of 'curiosities' (Minor magical items, strange documents, et al.) aside for when he saw the players look somewhere for treasure that he'd not thought of as a concealment point, but in retrospect made sense. You could certainly create a set of 'unbound clues' and use them in the same way.
Thanks Seth. This video sums up really well my biggest gripe with Gumshoe. Gumshoe claims to "solve" what I consider to be a non-existent "problem" in investigative games. "You automatically get the clues, because otherwise there is absolutely no way to prevent a roll from stopping an investigation dead!" Gumshoe seems to claim that there needs to be a mechanics-alternative to GMs simply learning adaptation. Not everyone is good at adapting to circumstances, but to act like clues have to be hidden behind die rolls and that Gumshoe "fixes" this is just wrong. Anyone who knows how to run an investigative game (like you) know that moving clues around, making rolls about time or nuance rather than a hard wall, and inventing new clues are all time-tested solutions to this problem. I get that people need a way to market things. Gumshoe's marketing is a real turn-off to me because I think it risks stifling adaptation.
I also give out clues in CoC, there is is always obvious things that are visible in a crime scene. I will also describe thing differently to a PC if they have a occupation or skill that would give them more of a heads up. An accountant would know what account books are and how to read them, a street punk sees a book lists and numbers.
I just introduced a character called the Red Herring into my campaign last session. It was a halloween game where the players were caught between dimensions in a twilight zone/beetlejuice/twin peaks inspired place called "The Intersection" and the Red Herring is sort of the inderdimensional wierdo in charge. They had 6 doors that lead to different themed challenges that they had 1 hour each to complete. Because this is set in the intersection between dimensions, not only could they play as characters in their current campaign, they each had five other previous characters to choose from and in secret they each chose a door for each character. This ended up with some crazy group dynamics with some characters from completely different worlds teaming up like mutant animal men alongside sci fi space marines and high fantasy classic dnd characters. On top of that they each had secret personal bonus objectives to complete if they wanted to try for a permanent stat boost from the Red Herring (my favourite being that one of them had to make sure that old characters that had died in earlier campaigns must die again in this one). Each door they entered contained cryptic and symbolic clues about the unknown lore of the post apocalyptic setting they're in, and also detailed all the major events planned for the future (some of which will pay off next session, some not for years). I didn't tell them this, but as the story unfolds they'll start finding some of the situations vaguely familiar, and if they were smart and paying attention, they'll use it as a sort of prophetic vision to help them better prepare for what's coming. They're already figuring out some of it, and are way off on others, so mission accomplished there. It ended up being a 13 hour session, and was the most fun I've ever had DMing.
In one game I was in we were investigating someone's apartment. I caught the GM off guard by saying I was going to look for takeout menus to see if that might give us a place to go. The GM was impressed enough to change things up a bit so they led us to a location he hadn't planned. He put the next step in the new location instead of where we were supposed to find it. It's okay to adjust on the fly.
When he said that, I thought what could be an intriguing plot hook is that Speak With Dead says that the dead is under no obligation to answer. What if the victim protected the murderer for some reason even in death?
When you talk about being flexible with your plot, it reminds me of how a friend builds campaigns. He makes information, encounters and NPCs modular so he can move them around in response to what the players are doing and they're not going to waste. No particular NPC has a given bit of information, but that information can be held by whoever the campaign needs it to have at the time. A note on skill rolls. I like your point of having a bunch of clues because the last thing you want to do is lock the plot behind a skill check because the game will stall if that die roll fails.
We handle skill rolls like this in our game: we don't have set DCs for finding a clue. Instead, depending on by how much we succeed or fail the roll, we'll find the required information faster or slower. Pretty much only a critical fail will leave us utterly clueless, and that's what backup clues are for. Because of the time factor, and because we're alyways on a time crunch, we tend to always split the party into groups of 2 and 3, to cover more ground and make up lost time. It raises the stakes for all of us, because even though we're keeping a lower profile when traveling in pairs, we're far more vulnerable should we run into trouble. It also lets the DM run two parallel storylines that give everyone something to do and make the game seem more fast paced.
Really good video. I would like to add that a lot of mysteries are dynamic. What I mean to say: because the villain is aware that the PCs are investigating, they could behave accordingly (and if the villain is not aware, it could bring out another type of behavior). They could try to hide evidence that the PCs have missed, try to get rid of the PCs or try to frame someone else as a red herring. Some good examples in writing are "The Mysterious affair at the Styles", "The Adventure of the Norwood Builder", "The Dying Night" and "And then there were none". It could be a good tool. In case the players get stuck with an investigation. (Of course, it has to fit with the character of the villain.)
Good stuff for "blocking game breaking abilities" of defective PCs. When you as a DM want to prevent using some of such abilities, consider that a villain wants it as well. Then, give him a tool to do it. Now, when PCs will try to use their abilities, they well be blocked. BUT give PCs a way to understand how it was blocked, who can do it et cetera. This helps you as DM, but also gives some dynamics to the plot at the same time
"I know improvisation is going to be used as the caulk..." (long pause that had me totally wondering where he was going with this as that last word can be heard a couple different ways). Also - I am totally OK with PC's failing. If they fail, they fail. If you give them the answer it is unfulfilling. So long as you used the three clue rule and had a solid adventure then it is on them. I tend to run a lot of groups on the same adventures so I can figure out rapidly if the adventure is badly written or not working. If it is, I correct it. If the PC's can't just figure it out, move on to consequences. They failed to catch the murderer - so what happens next? It could lead to a whole different adventure - or different kind of adventure.
That dungeon map metaphor is genius. It perfectly illustrates a great piece of advice for plotting any RPG, mystery of not. Kudos to whoever came up with it, and kudos to Seth for passing it on.
I'm running my first Call of Cthulhu game and at first it was bumpy because I had never played it before and never made an investigation. Recently I decided the organization the players work for are trying to streamline monster knowledge. This allowed them to go on a investigation with partial monster info so they have a few ideas what to look for. Ever since they said these were great there was investigation, tension (during the fight with the monsters), action, and just overall interesting. With normal monsters I have changed pieces of lore. I have made my own monsters (recently it was a lost soul a nazi paranormal necromancer creation that could only be killed if the necromancer was killed) well the monster figured out they knew and tried to kill them in their sleep. It was intense and I thought it was going to be a tpw. In the end one was almodt dead and they got the necromancer right as the monster got into the doorway. It was an intense moment for everyone. It was awesome.
Greatest close circuit I ran was when a wizard just decided to bite the bait. He had so many ways out and decided to work it through with the group instead of just putting everyone asleep and then reading their memories.
Question: I would absolutely LOVE to hear what you have to offer as far as "villains" like the old ladies in "Arsenic And Old Lace." A brilliant and beautiful story, where the so-called "bad guys" KNOW they are doing the right thing. If you have something to add, I would love to hear it. Really like your stuff. Take care and Merry Christmas, brother.
Been watching for a while but this is my first comment. Just wanted to stay thank you! I run a Monster of the Week game and all of these are helpful. I've learned to do some of them just through trial and error, but it's great to have that reinforced. The biggest thing for me has been flexibility. The first mystery I ran, I planned out the most minute details and of course maybe half of that ever got used, and I had to improv so much that I felt like I was failing my group. But improv--especially in MotW--is a big part of it. I come up with the monster and its motivation, the countdown timer (what happens if the PCs don't act), the bystanders and locations and the clues those can provide, and a lot of the rest I improv because I trust my players to get there. And because anything we come up with collaboratively is going to be more satisfying than something I come up with on my own. May not work for everyone, but if anyone out there is having trouble running MotW my advice is to loosen your grip on the reins--just a bit. :)
Mystery and investigation aspects can add to most all TTRPG play. Adding a mystery to the dungeon, something for the players to research and discover, adds meaning and fun to hacking and slashing and gives players a reason to roleplay. (So who stole the dice?)
You are the first person on youtube i have found whom actually give definite explanation on how to write a pnp, this have helped me alot been playing for many years but never really been able to understand how to write a story of my own. Keep it up its so helpfull
WAY late to the party, but: * I strongly recommend looking at CTHULHU CONFIDENTIAL by Pelgrane Press to look at how to organize scene flow for an investigation -- although noting (as Seth emphasizes) that you'll need to be ready to improvise when the players go off in some non-Eudclidan direction. (ENCOUNTER THEORY by Ben Riggs (of the Plot Points podcast) goes into more depth about this and may be where Seth saw/heard the "plot as dungeon map" idea.) * One more option for skill checks and clues is the idea of "failing forward" -- the PC still finds the clue, but because of a failed roll you create some other complication for them (the baddies find evidence the PC leaves behind, the PC accidentally destroys the clue and now has to convince others that it existed, etc.). If you can't think of something to mess with them immediately you can file the failure away for later, using a "bad Karma" token or the like.
This is a great video, Seth, very informative. I did become a bit distracted at the 5 minute mark when I noticed the porcelain doll's head in the corner WEEPING BLOOD AND STARING AT ME THROUGH THE RUINED WINDOWS OF ITS SOUL- but I'm better now.
Our DM has given us some damn fine mystery plots. Because we like to keep things as realistic as possible, depending on our rolls, a few hours of research in the halls of knowledge might turn into an entire afternoon or day if we botch the roll. Searching for clues by inconspicuously mixing with the townsfolk and finding the right people to ask the right questions can take a long time. Because we're always on quite a time crunch, we've taken to doing what every single meme out there warns us about: We split the party to cover more ground. The characters with roguish talents and underground knowledge ask around in the ghettos and taverns, the nobles and those with friends in high places ask around in the higher social echelons, those with language skills and knowledge in the appropriate topics scour the libraries, academies and archives. We can't afford to lose time, so this is the DM's way of running multiple interesting plots at the same time, keeping the game moving and also keeping us on edge and taking away our safety net. Sometimes we send each party member out on their own mission, but because of incidents in the past that almost got some of our characters killed, we now almost always travel in groups of at least two, even if we're not actively on a mission. We don't have a reliable way of communicating over a distance except with my familiar or the elf's beastshape (magic like that aswell as artifacts are expensive and rare in this world), so if one of us goes down or recieves a wound that leaves them incapacitated, the other can administer a health potion or an antidote, and they can book it to the safety of the tavern, where we reconvene at least twice a day to exchange findings. All this is not to say that the DM will ALWAYS screw us over as soon as one of us is alone somewhere. But the possibility is there, and that's enough for us. We won't be sending out anyone alone again without them having a good quality antidote with them and several health potions, that's for damn sure. The last time this happened, my character was coming back from interviewing a friend that she didn't want the others to know about, and 5 minutes away from the tavern, she recieved a poisoned crossbow bolt in the back and would have died if not for the health potions she continuously had to drink to stay on her feet before she barged into the tavern and collapsed infront of the group. There was also one time where three of us where in a brothel having fun and the other two wanted to go home because this wasn't their thing, and they got ambushed by the henchmen of an old enemy of ours. It didn't have anything to do with the plot, but we were encroaching upon his territory and since he knew we were in the area, he wanted teach us a lesson. The more victories we have, the more enemies we collect, and the harder we have to work to keep a low profile. We're the leaders of a by now famous mercenary company, three of us have been made nobility, and the group consists of an elf, a dwarf (both a very rare sight), an albino priest, a brightly dressed wizard and a viking-like giant of a woman and her owl familar. We stand out. As a group we'll quickly be recognized, but when we split up, we can keep a low profile. I really like this approach. It makes the world feel alive, our choices leave an impact, and it instills a similar kind of paranoia in the players as in the characters themselves.
Adjusting the game to fit what the players do is pretty much what I do with most of my games. My players once came up with some insanely bizarre and byzantine cobweb of conspiracies that they chased down, far, far beyond what I had in mind, but I went with it. I mean, if they come up with an intricate web of deceit and plots within plots, why stop them? It was anything but the plot, but I decided to go along and let them. What I loved was when one of the players eventually said "Dude, you're DAMN lucky to have players that could figure that out!" and I could just smile and nod. Why tell them they solved a different story, they had a lot of fun and felt accomplished, should I take that away? If I do, next time they just try to figure out my plot instead of telling me a far, far superior story than what I came up with. :)
Note : the general advice in that video are great, but it's highly dependent on the players you got (if you know them). I've had players so used to hard plots that they could eat through any intrigue as if I handed them the solution beforehand to players that had to be taken by the hand because they were just unable to add 2 and 2. In my opinion, investigations are the hardest games to master. Don't get discouraged, try your best!
Seth, I have a request. You run a lot of pulp games and seem very fond of the genre. A quintessential adventure for the pulp genre is the treasure hunt. Maybe you could do a video like this on pulpy treasure hunts?
Hey, I really enjoyed your mention of using more than just Spot checks to find clues. To expand on that a bit more, the KotOR games used skill prompts in conversations, and they could be used in a mystery in the same way. A character with Automotive Mechanic may notice that the car they found has Positrack Rear Suspension, that could not leave the tire tracks they found at the crime scene, for instance! (Thank you, My Cousin Vinny!) :D
Important lesson not just for mysteries, but for all RPGs: Make sure it's okay for players to fail a roll. I've seen mysteries grind to a halt because the book proclaimed players would make a roll, and then nobody did, and now what? If the mystery is written with the required rolls, then it's just random chance that the players succeed or fail, rather than the players' effort & cleverness & roleplay. Have a clear understanding of what happens if the players fail rolls, what interesting complications come from that, and how to get the story back on track. And if you're not willing to have the players fail, don't build that clue around a roll.
After putting the bloody baby head on the bookshelf, Seth looks at the monitor, stops, reaches over, and slowly turns the head so that it stares back into the viewer's soul while softly cooing to himself, "if you only had eyes to see"
My big problem with mysteries and encounters in general is, how can I allow the party to fail? Specifically, can I make failing satisfying? Best I can come up with is that, now that the mystery remained a mystery, the villain can proceed to the next part of their plan and failing the mystery means winning access to a new kind of adventure that would've been much different than had they solved the mystery.
Yet another fantastic video Mr. Skorkowski. The entire intro is HILARIOUS, right up to the first guideline. I have no experience in running a mystery, and I really have never read mysteries, so I am glad you gave some references you trust. That would be the first thing I would do in order to design the game is sort of abstract out the generalities so I could turn them into mechanics, just like I do for any other home brew I make. SIDE NOTE -- 8:50 As a 29-year military veteran, I find this to be an absolutely sad statement. :( THE GUIDELINES: 2:58 Decide the plot. Know the who, what, where, why and how. (Technique: "closed circle") 4:23 Know your party. Plan so there are no game-breakers (e.g., limits on Divination or Speak with Dead will allow them to learn). 5:56 Once the game starts, tell the players that they are investigating a mystery (i.e., they need to know that solving the mystery is the quest). 6:43 Ticking clock element adds a sense of urgency. 6:55 Clues. If the player characters do something (i.e., role play and/or skill checks, makes sure diverse problems to solve so all players can shine at different moments), they should be rewarded with a clue that should clearly lead the players to the next location you want them to go. 9:06 Interviewed NPCs will sometimes lie! Include a means by which the PCs can figure out that the NPC is lying or has lied. 9:59 What to do when players miss (or misinterpret) a clue? Have at least three clues to lead the players to one particular location. 11:44 Avoid linear plots; a.k.a. railroad! Use a "diamond plot" other other models with multiple options. 15:29 Prepare for failure. Expect the unexpected from the players -- at every point where they could gain a clue, ask "what if they fail?". Be ready to improvise so that the game won't grind to a halt. (As a last resort, you could use the Call of Cthulhu "idea roll" mechanic.) 20:22 Red herrings -- intentionally misleading clues that divert the party from the real culprit -- don't work well in tabletop games.
Hi Seth ! I've been watching your videos for some time now and this is my first comment ever on your channel :-D ! Two things : 1) thanks for the good job : this is exactly what I needed today since I am actually preparing a "mystery" scenario ! 2) The "mystery" scenario I am preparing is the infamous "Shadows over Bogenhafen", from Warhammer RPG "Enemy Within" campaign. I know you cannot review each and every game but you might consider this game, though. Skill-based game mechanics, gore and deadly fights, a unique atmosphere (kind of lo-dark, as in lo-fi), black humour... If not reviewing it, I'd still highly recommend that you play it, as a GM or...a player ! Another incredible scenario that you could test is "A Rough Night at the Three Feathers" : "The Name of the Rose" meets "The Budapest Grand Hotel" ;-) Enjoy and keep up the excellent job !
Of all you how-to this is perhaps your strongest yet Seth. Gold standard advice right here! You touch on this in the video, but I think it’s important that PCs have more than one way of finding an important clue, even having that clue appear in more than one location (but hand wavey but hey). There’s nothing more frustrating than having a game derailed because of a failed perception check.
I don't think it's hand wavy. To the characters and players it makes no difference whether the clue they find is the same or different from a clue in another place they didn't find or investigate; to the DM it's saved prep time for stuff that won't be seen, anyway, which means more time for the important bits towards a complete mystery module.
Great advice, much of which can apply generally. Particularly the bit about the players not having to solve the mystery of whether there's a mystery. If they show even the slightest confusion on this score, just outright tell them they're in a mystery story so they can get to work. Nice to see someone stand up and outright tell people that they need to decide the plot of a mystery game ahead of time. This might seem obvious to many, but there are actually people out there who will tell you that they just wait for their players to come up with a "cool" theory and declare that to be the answer. Of course, player-derived theories are just as likely to be full of holes as a GM's first draft (ie. almost certainly) and once the players _realise_ that you're just going with whatever idiot notion _they_ come up with, they'll never take any mystery you present them with seriously again. Also, "Players Are Their Own Red Herrings" ought to be a goddamn t-shirt.
Thanks for the overview video! I discovered the Gumshoe system and I've always liked the investigative nature of mystery films, horror films, games like Ace Attorney, or shows like Ghost in the Shell, Paranoia Agent, etc. and hope to implement that kind of thing into my campaigns someday.
I'm currently working on a adventure for my P&P group, where I'll have them investigating which monster they are hired to hunt (well, they CAN rush it and get themselves ripped a new one), so they'll know how to find it easier, prepare the encounter (be it a fight, hunt or just send it away) ect. And this video actually helped me a lot, thank you for that.
Was thinkin, “split personality has never been so much fun” then Seth got Webley‘ed, Plot twist 🤯 “But who is the killer” Jack, that would be you Jack, not colonel mustard in the library with the candlestick, but they guy holdin the gun, I mean, come on there is video footage and all, better call Saul.... Good video, makes me want to play “Noir”by archon gaming inc,
Seth, I just stumbled across your channel, and it has very rapidly become my favorite on CZcams! I am a 35+ year veteran gamemaster/player, and Call of Cthulhu has recently become my favorite RPG. Your review/how-to videos are extremely helpful, and a great joy to watch... thank you for your heroic efforts, insights and colorful theatrics!
Cracking video as always, re-watching for prep in a Cy-Borg game i wanna have mystery horror shtick. I might be wrong but i believe it was Sly Flourish who originally floated the idea of the "mystery dungeon" structure concept. Neat idea.
Thank you Seth. I'm running a Murder Mystery for my D&D group this Sunday! The advice you offered in this video has helped set my mind at ease. I'm now confident that win, lose, or draw, I've covered my bases and the PCs will do what PCs do best; the unexpected.
I know I'm late sharing this but this is one of the most helpful CZcams videos about RPGs I've seen. Today I re-watched the one about Dagger of Toth and understand what you've been talking about! Thanks a lot.
One of the things I do in D&D is that if the players fail a skill roll to get a clue I still mention the clue but hide it in the patter. Failed Roll: “you search the waste basket. You find a bunch of junk including a few papers, some bunched up tissue papers, a handful of notes and a broken pocket watch.” Successful roll: “As you search the wastebasket you find some papers, a handful of post it notes, a broken watch and a bunch of tissue papers that are crumpled up. As you go through the tissue papers you notice writing on one of them; it is a phone number that you recognize.” My players have learned that I will always give them something even if they fail the roll, but instead of just handing it to them, they will have to work for it, and possibly waste time that might bite them later.
This video is great and you listed like half of my mistakes when i dm ( including when we are not playing an investigation) but i have to admit that one of the best mystery session i ran was the complete opposite of careful planning. the whole point was to prepare for less than 10 minutes ( in a world known by the players, crafted through many years with them) and just accept the best theories from the players as "the truth that i planned all along". i recommend trying this once, if the players are not usually too passive
I’ve watched this video multiple times. Probably everytime before I run a new CoC campaign. About to start a new one tonight and it’s great to help focus my last minute notes.
The "idea roll" reminds me of something the D&D group I played with in my youth called "save vs. stupidity." When anyone was going to make a very bad decision that would derail the adventure or likely get them killed, the GM would tell the player to save vs. stupidity. Of course we were young and harassed each other with adolescent glee, so talking like that was normal. But I still pull it out of the RPG Toolbox when it's good for a laugh.
Ton of great advice here. Ideally, the mystery should be impossible to solve until they get about three clues then progressively more obvious with each new clue. And you can reward them based on how many clues it took (hint: more than you imagine) before they stopped trying to pin it on the red herring. Because, hoo boy, they will really try to pin it on the red herring.
Man, this is super helpful. I'm running the CoC scenario Crimson Letters this weekend, and I needed something to talk me down from the ledge. This video makes preparing seem much easier.
"Players are their own red herrings"
Truer words were never spoken!
Absolutely ... Once, I was running a Pathfinder adventure that involved something of a mystery. One of the backstories of an NPC involved him being corrupted by a succubus, and suddenly the red-herring machinery fired up for one of the player characters, who was suddenly half-convinced there was a succubus behind everything. Luckily, the other PCs talked him down and things got back on track.
You all probably dont care at all but does someone know of a method to log back into an instagram account..?
I somehow lost my account password. I appreciate any help you can give me.
@Kaleb Brysen instablaster =)
Oh man… This has been one of my major challenges as a new Keeper.
I'm going for the narrator. He looks shifty with that smoking gun.
It wasn’t smoking.
@@jesternario it's hiding in the fog.
DO NOT: split up and search for clues
DO: bring Scooby Snacks
I know this wasn't written as to be taken at face value, but splitting up is such good drama though, plus consider how a group of strangers (especially armed ones) are perceived as opposed to an individual or a pair. Very few people are forthcoming enough to interact openly with a group, especially if they have reason to fear them.
@@gossamera4665 I couldn't agree more, nothing had been more exciting in the games I've run or played in, than when players spilt up, especially from a difference of opinion.
Gossa Mera True! I’ve heard “don’t split the party” many times, but every time it happened to me as PC or DM, it really raised the stakes and got everyone more engaged
@@BobWorldBuilder I think the "don't split the party" thing comes from combat in an adventure being balanced around a full party. When only half a party gets into a fight it is twice as difficult as it should be and results in a wipe.
@@andrewpotter7514 Party splits also make the DM have to go back and forth between all separate groups for all the "meanwhiles." Players wind up sitting around with their thumbs up their asses.
I know that intro was supposed to be "... a man who has proven himself to be a cold ass villain. Who is guilty?"
But I heard "Dweebles is a cold ass villain, who is guilty."
Dweebles, the man with no name...
a "name"
Ha, me too - and he was!
Just listened to that part again...and I think that was intentional!! I think Seth planned for us to think of it the first way, but he really DID mean it the 2nd way!! Man, he's a genius! You're pretty slick too, CitanulsPumpkin, for catching that! I didn't even think of it that way!!
I like to think that he does have a name. it's George. George Dweebles
"Players are their own red herrings." So, so true!
I can't believe they actually killed Seth, RIP buddy, it was a good time
Or did he?....
Paraboxify most shocking character death yet
@@marcar9marcar972
I’m guessing Seth is the REAL MURDERER,
He faked his own death as an alibi......yeah
He was shot in the shoulder. Near the heart but a lot closer to the shoulder.
@@Tony-dh7mz You should've given a spoiler warning for Sherlock Holmes: The Valley Of Fear smh
My gf once ran a mystery one-shot where all the clues were really hard to find, so we didn't find them. After two hours of aimlessly wandering around, I told my pet bird to find the missing NPCs; he did, we busted them out, and then the campaign was over.
Thinking of a mystery like a dungeon is some fantastic advice.
8:51 wow, a picture of lockpicking that ACTUALLY depicts lockpicking instead of someone jamming a couple of screwdrivers into the keyhole. Nice, I appreciate the attention for detail! ^^
Hello, this is Lockpicking Lawyer and we have today a door lock, but even better, a picture of a door lock
@@MaximilianBrandt Why hello, fellow LPL fan
"Players are essentially their own red herrings" .... ouch. No argument there.
Ever heard of the convention where the Call of Cthulu players on one table misinterpreted a red herring clue and went to Burma to continue their investigation into a drug dealer's supply lines and the GM just had to go with it while preventing them from realising they completely lost the plot?
@@raphaelperry8159 Hence the creed "Wherever they go, the plot will be there".
I knew it never trust Dweebles!
After all he plays Monks and Bards!
Dude, you’re, hands down, the best RPG content creator on the platform. I have the mathematical equations to prove it!
Honestly though, your skits are awesome and the videos are so well done.
Huge fan, keep up the good work.
Also, maybe perception checks could be used for more cheeky reveals if, for instance, a PC or multiple PCs might want to play a Sherlock Holmes like character and they meet an NPC for the first time. The DM could ask for a check roll, if they pass the result might be “You notice that the NPC rolls his own cigarettes because of the marks on his index finger.” Which would lead to a clue down the line.
Sorry, just watched the 1983 BBC version of The Hounds of the Baskervilles, where this happens.
I recently used something along those lines when I had a pair of players roll a perception check to notice a glint of silver through a hole in a bag an NPC was carrying. That lead to them connecting some earlier dots and figuring out he'd been paid off to by a group they had encountered earlier. It didn't significantly alter the core plot, since they didn't have to know about this bribe, but it did lead to some fun roleplaying and helped them feel like they were putting the clues together.
Matthew Colville and him are both the most top tier RPG content creators on CZcams, imo.
Instead of perception, investigation. If someone wanted to play a Sherlock-like character, they may have gone into Investigation only for it to be unused by any DM that always says “Perception Check”
I like to use Investigation/perception or any of the other related clues like additional info. There are core infos i give out regardless of dice results or performance. And then there is addional info that isn't particular needed for solving the mystery, but gives more depth to the overall story.
“Charging off to Crazy Town with a head full of conspiracy theories.” Yeah, that was my last CoC players. Those guys would miss the obvious every time, invented insane theories, and got frustrated when they out found things like shooting at state police officers resulted in arrest and trial.
The gods have yet again answered our prayers and delivered us a video.
Your comment about multiple clues reminded me of something I saw in a 1980s copy of White Dwarf (e.g. when it was still a general RPG magazine...), the GM in the article said he'd keep a set of 'curiosities' (Minor magical items, strange documents, et al.) aside for when he saw the players look somewhere for treasure that he'd not thought of as a concealment point, but in retrospect made sense. You could certainly create a set of 'unbound clues' and use them in the same way.
I'll have to remember that
Why am I suddenly invested in the characters of Mike, Todd, Dwebbles and their roleplaying misadventures
I would legit love any or all of them to join my gaming group.
It was dweebles in the game room with the revolver!
BUT WHO STOLE THE DICE?!
And don't tell me it was Dweebles, because that was obviously a red herring.🤨
Jack did. He is tired of Seth flubbing Jack's rolls. Also, no dice, no play, no harm comes to Jack.
Plot twist Seth just put them in a different box then forgot about it
The man with no name: Dweebles.
Why do I hear “A fist full of dollars” by Ennio Morricone?!
thanks tj
The Good, The Bad, and The Dweebles.
@@spritelady4669
That’s it then Dweebles should be called “Clint”
Dweebles' laugh at the end made my hair stand on end.
I always knew he was up to no good!
Godamn beatnik, one step away from being a commie I tell ya!
Thanks Seth. This video sums up really well my biggest gripe with Gumshoe. Gumshoe claims to "solve" what I consider to be a non-existent "problem" in investigative games. "You automatically get the clues, because otherwise there is absolutely no way to prevent a roll from stopping an investigation dead!" Gumshoe seems to claim that there needs to be a mechanics-alternative to GMs simply learning adaptation. Not everyone is good at adapting to circumstances, but to act like clues have to be hidden behind die rolls and that Gumshoe "fixes" this is just wrong. Anyone who knows how to run an investigative game (like you) know that moving clues around, making rolls about time or nuance rather than a hard wall, and inventing new clues are all time-tested solutions to this problem. I get that people need a way to market things. Gumshoe's marketing is a real turn-off to me because I think it risks stifling adaptation.
I also give out clues in CoC, there is is always obvious things that are visible in a crime scene. I will also describe thing differently to a PC if they have a occupation or skill that would give them more of a heads up. An accountant would know what account books are and how to read them, a street punk sees a book lists and numbers.
RIP Seth
That intro had me laughing hysterically.
I just introduced a character called the Red Herring into my campaign last session. It was a halloween game where the players were caught between dimensions in a twilight zone/beetlejuice/twin peaks inspired place called "The Intersection" and the Red Herring is sort of the inderdimensional wierdo in charge. They had 6 doors that lead to different themed challenges that they had 1 hour each to complete. Because this is set in the intersection between dimensions, not only could they play as characters in their current campaign, they each had five other previous characters to choose from and in secret they each chose a door for each character. This ended up with some crazy group dynamics with some characters from completely different worlds teaming up like mutant animal men alongside sci fi space marines and high fantasy classic dnd characters. On top of that they each had secret personal bonus objectives to complete if they wanted to try for a permanent stat boost from the Red Herring (my favourite being that one of them had to make sure that old characters that had died in earlier campaigns must die again in this one). Each door they entered contained cryptic and symbolic clues about the unknown lore of the post apocalyptic setting they're in, and also detailed all the major events planned for the future (some of which will pay off next session, some not for years). I didn't tell them this, but as the story unfolds they'll start finding some of the situations vaguely familiar, and if they were smart and paying attention, they'll use it as a sort of prophetic vision to help them better prepare for what's coming. They're already figuring out some of it, and are way off on others, so mission accomplished there. It ended up being a 13 hour session, and was the most fun I've ever had DMing.
Seth's new video... Insta-like. And now, lets hit play....
In one game I was in we were investigating someone's apartment. I caught the GM off guard by saying I was going to look for takeout menus to see if that might give us a place to go. The GM was impressed enough to change things up a bit so they led us to a location he hadn't planned. He put the next step in the new location instead of where we were supposed to find it. It's okay to adjust on the fly.
WE GOT THEIR NAMES!
I for one, am thrilled.
I'm going to use your advice for a Renaissance-type D&D campaign soon, especially your advice about Speak With Dead. Thanks!
When he said that, I thought what could be an intriguing plot hook is that Speak With Dead says that the dead is under no obligation to answer. What if the victim protected the murderer for some reason even in death?
When you talk about being flexible with your plot, it reminds me of how a friend builds campaigns. He makes information, encounters and NPCs modular so he can move them around in response to what the players are doing and they're not going to waste. No particular NPC has a given bit of information, but that information can be held by whoever the campaign needs it to have at the time.
A note on skill rolls. I like your point of having a bunch of clues because the last thing you want to do is lock the plot behind a skill check because the game will stall if that die roll fails.
This is exactly how I write up games. It keeps the gameplay organic.
We handle skill rolls like this in our game: we don't have set DCs for finding a clue. Instead, depending on by how much we succeed or fail the roll, we'll find the required information faster or slower. Pretty much only a critical fail will leave us utterly clueless, and that's what backup clues are for. Because of the time factor, and because we're alyways on a time crunch, we tend to always split the party into groups of 2 and 3, to cover more ground and make up lost time. It raises the stakes for all of us, because even though we're keeping a lower profile when traveling in pairs, we're far more vulnerable should we run into trouble. It also lets the DM run two parallel storylines that give everyone something to do and make the game seem more fast paced.
Really good video.
I would like to add that a lot of mysteries are dynamic.
What I mean to say: because the villain is aware that the PCs are investigating, they could behave accordingly (and if the villain is not aware, it could bring out another type of behavior). They could try to hide evidence that the PCs have missed, try to get rid of the PCs or try to frame someone else as a red herring. Some good examples in writing are "The Mysterious affair at the Styles", "The Adventure of the Norwood Builder", "The Dying Night" and "And then there were none".
It could be a good tool. In case the players get stuck with an investigation. (Of course, it has to fit with the character of the villain.)
For some reason, I thought the title was "How to ruin a mystery". Great video as always Seth!
I read it that way initially, too.
How to ruin a mystery is easy, you just get the mystery into contact with the players
Good stuff for "blocking game breaking abilities" of defective PCs. When you as a DM want to prevent using some of such abilities, consider that a villain wants it as well. Then, give him a tool to do it. Now, when PCs will try to use their abilities, they well be blocked. BUT give PCs a way to understand how it was blocked, who can do it et cetera. This helps you as DM, but also gives some dynamics to the plot at the same time
Agreed
"I know improvisation is going to be used as the caulk..." (long pause that had me totally wondering where he was going with this as that last word can be heard a couple different ways).
Also - I am totally OK with PC's failing. If they fail, they fail. If you give them the answer it is unfulfilling. So long as you used the three clue rule and had a solid adventure then it is on them. I tend to run a lot of groups on the same adventures so I can figure out rapidly if the adventure is badly written or not working. If it is, I correct it. If the PC's can't just figure it out, move on to consequences. They failed to catch the murderer - so what happens next? It could lead to a whole different adventure - or different kind of adventure.
I love all the references to past videos. This is the Avengers: Endgame of Seth Skorkowsky videos.
That dungeon map metaphor is genius. It perfectly illustrates a great piece of advice for plotting any RPG, mystery of not. Kudos to whoever came up with it, and kudos to Seth for passing it on.
I busted out laughing with that shout when you got shot. Caught me off guard.
I'm running my first Call of Cthulhu game and at first it was bumpy because I had never played it before and never made an investigation. Recently I decided the organization the players work for are trying to streamline monster knowledge. This allowed them to go on a investigation with partial monster info so they have a few ideas what to look for. Ever since they said these were great there was investigation, tension (during the fight with the monsters), action, and just overall interesting. With normal monsters I have changed pieces of lore. I have made my own monsters (recently it was a lost soul a nazi paranormal necromancer creation that could only be killed if the necromancer was killed) well the monster figured out they knew and tried to kill them in their sleep. It was intense and I thought it was going to be a tpw. In the end one was almodt dead and they got the necromancer right as the monster got into the doorway. It was an intense moment for everyone. It was awesome.
Plot twist: The GM realizes they never needed dice! xD
Thanks for the great tips! :D
Greatest close circuit I ran was when a wizard just decided to bite the bait. He had so many ways out and decided to work it through with the group instead of just putting everyone asleep and then reading their memories.
Damn it Dweebles! Put that thing away. Jack is going to find out it was you if you keep it out like that.
Question: I would absolutely LOVE to hear what you have to offer as far as "villains" like the old ladies in "Arsenic And Old Lace." A brilliant and beautiful story, where the so-called "bad guys" KNOW they are doing the right thing. If you have something to add, I would love to hear it. Really like your stuff. Take care and Merry Christmas, brother.
Lost it with Jack at about the 45 sec mark. I needed that laugh.
0:39 possibly my favorite moment in any of your videos since the Scott brown incident
Seth, keep making vids because everything you put out is great!!
Been watching for a while but this is my first comment. Just wanted to stay thank you! I run a Monster of the Week game and all of these are helpful. I've learned to do some of them just through trial and error, but it's great to have that reinforced.
The biggest thing for me has been flexibility. The first mystery I ran, I planned out the most minute details and of course maybe half of that ever got used, and I had to improv so much that I felt like I was failing my group. But improv--especially in MotW--is a big part of it. I come up with the monster and its motivation, the countdown timer (what happens if the PCs don't act), the bystanders and locations and the clues those can provide, and a lot of the rest I improv because I trust my players to get there. And because anything we come up with collaboratively is going to be more satisfying than something I come up with on my own.
May not work for everyone, but if anyone out there is having trouble running MotW my advice is to loosen your grip on the reins--just a bit. :)
Someday Seth is going to need to do a fashion show showing of all his neat geek shirts.
Mystery and investigation aspects can add to most all TTRPG play. Adding a mystery to the dungeon, something for the players to research and discover, adds meaning and fun to hacking and slashing and gives players a reason to roleplay.
(So who stole the dice?)
You are the first person on youtube i have found whom actually give definite explanation on how to write a pnp, this have helped me alot
been playing for many years but never really been able to understand how to write a story of my own.
Keep it up its so helpfull
WAY late to the party, but:
* I strongly recommend looking at CTHULHU CONFIDENTIAL by Pelgrane Press to look at how to organize scene flow for an investigation -- although noting (as Seth emphasizes) that you'll need to be ready to improvise when the players go off in some non-Eudclidan direction. (ENCOUNTER THEORY by Ben Riggs (of the Plot Points podcast) goes into more depth about this and may be where Seth saw/heard the "plot as dungeon map" idea.)
* One more option for skill checks and clues is the idea of "failing forward" -- the PC still finds the clue, but because of a failed roll you create some other complication for them (the baddies find evidence the PC leaves behind, the PC accidentally destroys the clue and now has to convince others that it existed, etc.). If you can't think of something to mess with them immediately you can file the failure away for later, using a "bad Karma" token or the like.
This is a great video, Seth, very informative. I did become a bit distracted at the 5 minute mark when I noticed the porcelain doll's head in the corner WEEPING BLOOD AND STARING AT ME THROUGH THE RUINED WINDOWS OF ITS SOUL- but I'm better now.
Goodfellow agreed. That thing is really spooky. That might just be me watching this at Zero Dark Stupid. I’ll regret this tomorrow.
Was watching this at 2 am at night. The dwibles laugh in the end made me piss myself, quite literally.
Our DM has given us some damn fine mystery plots. Because we like to keep things as realistic as possible, depending on our rolls, a few hours of research in the halls of knowledge might turn into an entire afternoon or day if we botch the roll. Searching for clues by inconspicuously mixing with the townsfolk and finding the right people to ask the right questions can take a long time.
Because we're always on quite a time crunch, we've taken to doing what every single meme out there warns us about: We split the party to cover more ground. The characters with roguish talents and underground knowledge ask around in the ghettos and taverns, the nobles and those with friends in high places ask around in the higher social echelons, those with language skills and knowledge in the appropriate topics scour the libraries, academies and archives.
We can't afford to lose time, so this is the DM's way of running multiple interesting plots at the same time, keeping the game moving and also keeping us on edge and taking away our safety net.
Sometimes we send each party member out on their own mission, but because of incidents in the past that almost got some of our characters killed, we now almost always travel in groups of at least two, even if we're not actively on a mission. We don't have a reliable way of communicating over a distance except with my familiar or the elf's beastshape (magic like that aswell as artifacts are expensive and rare in this world), so if one of us goes down or recieves a wound that leaves them incapacitated, the other can administer a health potion or an antidote, and they can book it to the safety of the tavern, where we reconvene at least twice a day to exchange findings.
All this is not to say that the DM will ALWAYS screw us over as soon as one of us is alone somewhere. But the possibility is there, and that's enough for us. We won't be sending out anyone alone again without them having a good quality antidote with them and several health potions, that's for damn sure. The last time this happened, my character was coming back from interviewing a friend that she didn't want the others to know about, and 5 minutes away from the tavern, she recieved a poisoned crossbow bolt in the back and would have died if not for the health potions she continuously had to drink to stay on her feet before she barged into the tavern and collapsed infront of the group.
There was also one time where three of us where in a brothel having fun and the other two wanted to go home because this wasn't their thing, and they got ambushed by the henchmen of an old enemy of ours. It didn't have anything to do with the plot, but we were encroaching upon his territory and since he knew we were in the area, he wanted teach us a lesson. The more victories we have, the more enemies we collect, and the harder we have to work to keep a low profile. We're the leaders of a by now famous mercenary company, three of us have been made nobility, and the group consists of an elf, a dwarf (both a very rare sight), an albino priest, a brightly dressed wizard and a viking-like giant of a woman and her owl familar. We stand out. As a group we'll quickly be recognized, but when we split up, we can keep a low profile. I really like this approach. It makes the world feel alive, our choices leave an impact, and it instills a similar kind of paranoia in the players as in the characters themselves.
Adjusting the game to fit what the players do is pretty much what I do with most of my games. My players once came up with some insanely bizarre and byzantine cobweb of conspiracies that they chased down, far, far beyond what I had in mind, but I went with it. I mean, if they come up with an intricate web of deceit and plots within plots, why stop them? It was anything but the plot, but I decided to go along and let them.
What I loved was when one of the players eventually said "Dude, you're DAMN lucky to have players that could figure that out!" and I could just smile and nod. Why tell them they solved a different story, they had a lot of fun and felt accomplished, should I take that away? If I do, next time they just try to figure out my plot instead of telling me a far, far superior story than what I came up with. :)
I needed this video a week ago LoL. Very good!
Note : the general advice in that video are great, but it's highly dependent on the players you got (if you know them). I've had players so used to hard plots that they could eat through any intrigue as if I handed them the solution beforehand to players that had to be taken by the hand because they were just unable to add 2 and 2. In my opinion, investigations are the hardest games to master. Don't get discouraged, try your best!
Seth, I have a request. You run a lot of pulp games and seem very fond of the genre. A quintessential adventure for the pulp genre is the treasure hunt. Maybe you could do a video like this on pulpy treasure hunts?
Thanks!! Great ideas. I've been a DM and player since the 80's and learned from this!
Hey, I really enjoyed your mention of using more than just Spot checks to find clues. To expand on that a bit more, the KotOR games used skill prompts in conversations, and they could be used in a mystery in the same way. A character with Automotive Mechanic may notice that the car they found has Positrack Rear Suspension, that could not leave the tire tracks they found at the crime scene, for instance! (Thank you, My Cousin Vinny!) :D
Story rolled into a mystery - Players trying to figure out what was going on. I'm trying to work out the Mystery Clues for it - this helped.
"I thought you said the butler didn't do it"
"I know, it's called a twist!"
"That's not a twist, you just lied"
-Bob's Burgers
Loved the intro. Went back and watched it multiple times.
*I absolutely loved the intro .*
That intro was epic!
0:26 Uh nice, hello Mister Seth Sterling and the "Dice Zone"
Important lesson not just for mysteries, but for all RPGs: Make sure it's okay for players to fail a roll. I've seen mysteries grind to a halt because the book proclaimed players would make a roll, and then nobody did, and now what? If the mystery is written with the required rolls, then it's just random chance that the players succeed or fail, rather than the players' effort & cleverness & roleplay. Have a clear understanding of what happens if the players fail rolls, what interesting complications come from that, and how to get the story back on track. And if you're not willing to have the players fail, don't build that clue around a roll.
After putting the bloody baby head on the bookshelf, Seth looks at the monitor, stops, reaches over, and slowly turns the head so that it stares back into the viewer's soul while softly cooing to himself, "if you only had eyes to see"
I can neither confirm nor deny this claim.
My big problem with mysteries and encounters in general is, how can I allow the party to fail? Specifically, can I make failing satisfying?
Best I can come up with is that, now that the mystery remained a mystery, the villain can proceed to the next part of their plan and failing the mystery means winning access to a new kind of adventure that would've been much different than had they solved the mystery.
Currently binging all of your stuff. Love it. Would love to see a series on how you build and structure a Cthulhu campaign.
Yet another fantastic video Mr. Skorkowski. The entire intro is HILARIOUS, right up to the first guideline. I have no experience in running a mystery, and I really have never read mysteries, so I am glad you gave some references you trust. That would be the first thing I would do in order to design the game is sort of abstract out the generalities so I could turn them into mechanics, just like I do for any other home brew I make. SIDE NOTE -- 8:50 As a 29-year military veteran, I find this to be an absolutely sad statement. :(
THE GUIDELINES:
2:58 Decide the plot. Know the who, what, where, why and how. (Technique: "closed circle")
4:23 Know your party. Plan so there are no game-breakers (e.g., limits on Divination or Speak with Dead will allow them to learn).
5:56 Once the game starts, tell the players that they are investigating a mystery (i.e., they need to know that solving the mystery is the quest).
6:43 Ticking clock element adds a sense of urgency.
6:55 Clues. If the player characters do something (i.e., role play and/or skill checks, makes sure diverse problems to solve so all players can shine at different moments), they should be rewarded with a clue that should clearly lead the players to the next location you want them to go.
9:06 Interviewed NPCs will sometimes lie! Include a means by which the PCs can figure out that the NPC is lying or has lied.
9:59 What to do when players miss (or misinterpret) a clue? Have at least three clues to lead the players to one particular location.
11:44 Avoid linear plots; a.k.a. railroad! Use a "diamond plot" other other models with multiple options.
15:29 Prepare for failure. Expect the unexpected from the players -- at every point where they could gain a clue, ask "what if they fail?". Be ready to improvise so that the game won't grind to a halt. (As a last resort, you could use the Call of Cthulhu "idea roll" mechanic.)
20:22 Red herrings -- intentionally misleading clues that divert the party from the real culprit -- don't work well in tabletop games.
Time to learn.
Thanks for the advice, but I don't think I'll be running a mystery soon. Also, my eyes kept drifting to that bloody eyed doll head.
John Doherty It stares into your soul doesn’t it. Spooky.
Hi Seth ! I've been watching your videos for some time now and this is my first comment ever on your channel :-D ! Two things : 1) thanks for the good job : this is exactly what I needed today since I am actually preparing a "mystery" scenario !
2) The "mystery" scenario I am preparing is the infamous "Shadows over Bogenhafen", from Warhammer RPG "Enemy Within" campaign. I know you cannot review each and every game but you might consider this game, though. Skill-based game mechanics, gore and deadly fights, a unique atmosphere (kind of lo-dark, as in lo-fi), black humour... If not reviewing it, I'd still highly recommend that you play it, as a GM or...a player ! Another incredible scenario that you could test is "A Rough Night at the Three Feathers" : "The Name of the Rose" meets "The Budapest Grand Hotel" ;-) Enjoy and keep up the excellent job !
Of all you how-to this is perhaps your strongest yet Seth. Gold standard advice right here! You touch on this in the video, but I think it’s important that PCs have more than one way of finding an important clue, even having that clue appear in more than one location (but hand wavey but hey). There’s nothing more frustrating than having a game derailed because of a failed perception check.
I don't think it's hand wavy. To the characters and players it makes no difference whether the clue they find is the same or different from a clue in another place they didn't find or investigate; to the DM it's saved prep time for stuff that won't be seen, anyway, which means more time for the important bits towards a complete mystery module.
Great advice, much of which can apply generally. Particularly the bit about the players not having to solve the mystery of whether there's a mystery. If they show even the slightest confusion on this score, just outright tell them they're in a mystery story so they can get to work.
Nice to see someone stand up and outright tell people that they need to decide the plot of a mystery game ahead of time. This might seem obvious to many, but there are actually people out there who will tell you that they just wait for their players to come up with a "cool" theory and declare that to be the answer.
Of course, player-derived theories are just as likely to be full of holes as a GM's first draft (ie. almost certainly) and once the players _realise_ that you're just going with whatever idiot notion _they_ come up with, they'll never take any mystery you present them with seriously again.
Also, "Players Are Their Own Red Herrings" ought to be a goddamn t-shirt.
Thanks for the overview video! I discovered the Gumshoe system and I've always liked the investigative nature of mystery films, horror films, games like Ace Attorney, or shows like Ghost in the Shell, Paranoia Agent, etc. and hope to implement that kind of thing into my campaigns someday.
I'm currently working on a adventure for my P&P group, where I'll have them investigating which monster they are hired to hunt (well, they CAN rush it and get themselves ripped a new one), so they'll know how to find it easier, prepare the encounter (be it a fight, hunt or just send it away) ect.
And this video actually helped me a lot, thank you for that.
I am as far into this video as the end of the introduction and I had to pause it and say "SETH RULES!!!" That's great, thank you!!
This video is four years old, and my suspicion that Dweebles is secretly evil has FINALLY been confirmed.
Was thinkin, “split personality has never been so much fun” then Seth got Webley‘ed,
Plot twist 🤯 “But who is the killer” Jack, that would be you Jack, not colonel mustard in the library with the candlestick, but they guy holdin the gun, I mean, come on there is video footage and all, better call Saul....
Good video, makes me want to play “Noir”by archon gaming inc,
This video feels like a perfect companion piece to your review of Kult.
I appreciate the extra effort with the editing, characters, costumes, jokes, and even the t-shirts. Raises this channel far above the average.
This was super helpful, I'm intending to run a late 1920's murder mystery in Pulp Cthulhu and I'm trying to put together a fun story for my players 😁
God I love all the characters you play and little stories you make
Seth, I just stumbled across your channel, and it has very rapidly become my favorite on CZcams! I am a 35+ year veteran gamemaster/player, and Call of Cthulhu has recently become my favorite RPG. Your review/how-to videos are extremely helpful, and a great joy to watch... thank you for your heroic efforts, insights and colorful theatrics!
Thank you very much.
I too have just started as a keeper for Cthulhu and I second Mr Slaughter, an excellent video.
Cracking video as always, re-watching for prep in a Cy-Borg game i wanna have mystery horror shtick. I might be wrong but i believe it was Sly Flourish who originally floated the idea of the "mystery dungeon" structure concept. Neat idea.
I’m sad that I didn’t find this earlier. My entire campaign is centered around a mystery! This really helped.
Thank you Seth.
I'm running a Murder Mystery for my D&D group this Sunday!
The advice you offered in this video has helped set my mind at ease. I'm now confident that win, lose, or draw, I've covered my bases and the PCs will do what PCs do best; the unexpected.
Good luck. Hope you all have a blast.
I know I'm late sharing this but this is one of the most helpful CZcams videos about RPGs I've seen. Today I re-watched the one about Dagger of Toth and understand what you've been talking about! Thanks a lot.
Great to hear it's been helpful. I'm happy to have been of help.
I want to Like this video twice. Great stuff. As a DM/GM I find myself nodding my head in agreement.
One of the things I do in D&D is that if the players fail a skill roll to get a clue I still mention the clue but hide it in the patter.
Failed Roll: “you search the waste basket. You find a bunch of junk including a few papers, some bunched up tissue papers, a handful of notes and a broken pocket watch.”
Successful roll: “As you search the wastebasket you find some papers, a handful of post it notes, a broken watch and a bunch of tissue papers that are crumpled up. As you go through the tissue papers you notice writing on one of them; it is a phone number that you recognize.”
My players have learned that I will always give them something even if they fail the roll, but instead of just handing it to them, they will have to work for it, and possibly waste time that might bite them later.
This video is great and you listed like half of my mistakes when i dm ( including when we are not playing an investigation) but i have to admit that one of the best mystery session i ran was the complete opposite of careful planning. the whole point was to prepare for less than 10 minutes ( in a world known by the players, crafted through many years with them) and just accept the best theories from the players as "the truth that i planned all along". i recommend trying this once, if the players are not usually too passive
I’ve watched this video multiple times. Probably everytime before I run a new CoC campaign. About to start a new one tonight and it’s great to help focus my last minute notes.
The "idea roll" reminds me of something the D&D group I played with in my youth called "save vs. stupidity."
When anyone was going to make a very bad decision that would derail the adventure or likely get them killed, the GM would tell the player to save vs. stupidity.
Of course we were young and harassed each other with adolescent glee, so talking like that was normal. But I still pull it out of the RPG Toolbox when it's good for a laugh.
nicely done! thanks for the advice on running a mystery scenario
Ton of great advice here. Ideally, the mystery should be impossible to solve until they get about three clues then progressively more obvious with each new clue. And you can reward them based on how many clues it took (hint: more than you imagine) before they stopped trying to pin it on the red herring. Because, hoo boy, they will really try to pin it on the red herring.
I love your videos so much. Please never stop making these.
Mystery can also be a side quest with some fail outcomes. It's kinda more interesting if you know that you will not necessarly solve the case.
One of the best openings to a "How to" video I have seen in a very long time! Great advice and ideas.
Thanks for the English subtitles, it makes the video easier to watch by translating it into Spanish. (Google Translate) Tutututu, ty. xd
Man that intro was amazing 😂 i love your chanel
Man, this is super helpful. I'm running the CoC scenario Crimson Letters this weekend, and I needed something to talk me down from the ledge. This video makes preparing seem much easier.