Machining a new Needle Valve for a Detroit Steam Lubricator
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- čas přidán 16. 11. 2017
- A friend was in need of an old Detroit Steam Lubricator to oil brake cylinders on a steam locomotive he is restoring. The only problem with the one that I had was that it had a broken needle valve. In this video, I will show how I made a new needle valve out of brass stock on the metal lathe.
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I think we need to find that feller we find in our projects (yes, mine too!) and send him on vacation. Hey, you do great work and aren't afraid to show our humanity; for all that I thank you very much, Greg.
Re: The Do-over... in our old shop years ago, our machinists got to wear those killed parts for a week. All in good fun, but fewer mistakes. We had an awesome team of guys. Hope you and yours have a blessed Thanksgiving !
A lesser youtuber would have used editing to save his blushes, this is why you are a true gentleman and a quality guy Keith.
I was thinking "What about the packing nut?" and then you 'fessed up. I'm glad you caught it before it went out the door.
I love how you seem excited there is something to fix on it.
The bulb on the top of the lubricator is actually a condenser. The lubricator is actually at the same pressure inside as the steam line. The water falls to the bottom of the lubricator since it is heavier than oil and displaces the oil to the top of the lubricator. At the top, there is a pipe that runs down to your needle valve in the sight glass for adjusting the oil drop frequency. That sight glass is filled with water and the oil drop floats to the top of the glass and it slides into a pipe that goes over to the the steam line where the oil mixes with the steam. It is called a displacement lubricator due to the displacement of the oil by water.
Hope this helps!
Noah
97trainman I hope he is not using it on the brake cylinders... needs to use air. That lubricator will not work with air!
My father has a clever saying, "I've cut this three times and it is still too short!"
Thanks Keith for being human, well I made this too short..... Makes me feel not so bad when I mess up. Thanks for not editing it out.
I probably made more "correct" parts than originals when i first started...3 years later...not so much. Most of these machining guys are pretty good about showing the bad with the good.
I agree fully. I find it helpful to laugh at myself, sometimes.
You have a talent for machining and a bigger talent for teaching. Thanks.
Memories, memories as a steam loco fireman in the 1960s one of the preparation duties was to fill and set the lubricator. The oil had the viscosity of cold molasses and had to be heated to be able to pour about 4 pints into the lubricator. This oil was emulsified and, as you said, was injected into the valves and cylinders to lubricate them. This emulsified oil is what gave the steam locomotives their. distinctive smell. Takes me back to my youth. Thank you.
I realize Im kinda off topic but does anyone know a good website to stream newly released tv shows online?
@Brixton Christian Flixportal :D
@Riley Abel Thanks, signed up and it seems like a nice service =) I really appreciate it !
@Brixton Christian Glad I could help :)
Getting ready to start volunteering at the local railroad museum (first meeting Monday) and what comes up but fixing a steam locomotive part! Just making me look forward to the work even more :)
Displacement lubricator.. Top bulb condenses steam, steam becomes water, water floats oil, oil is pushed into steam flow.
Thought they were very clever when I found out how they worked. No moving parts and works under and regardless of steam pressure.
Thanks for sharing Keith, enjoy all that you do, and enjoy hanging out with you. Making something from scratch with 1000 people watching has it's challenges.You do good work, and the time went by fast.
Great turning there Keith
Hey, that was fun to watch. I actually felt my hands on the lathe wheels and almost smelled the oil as I was watching you make those cuts. Sweet memories from long ago.
Thanks Keith I enjoy watching you work especially on the lathe.
Beautiful camera focus on the thread cutting. Thanks for another great video!
Well presented as always Keith. Thanks for sharing.
Nice work Keith, so even the best makes mistakes!
Congrats on 100K.
Thanks for the video.
Steve,
You can make small parts on a big lathe but the other way around is not so easy. Thank you for sharing.
Hi Keith the new shop starting to look live in love your work Regards from the UK.
Good Job Keith!
Great work Keith 👍
Probably a replacement made by a beginner in that of the lathe. Found quite a few such weird threads upon receiving a few machines that were school equipment. Some were so good in all the other respects, i kept scratching my head trying to understand, luckily i came upon the realization that those were repairs before i lost my mind. :))
Great video Keith, thanks.
Looks great keith
Practice makes perfect!
perfect job Keith ! thumbs up man..
Thank you Keith.
Neat, sweet, and complete.
Awesome job!!!
Owned up to a mistake. You won me as a subscriber.
I made a mistake once, I thought I was wrong but turns out I was right. 😊 The boss lady does not think that is funny. Great video and very interesting.
Happy Thanksgiving
New drinking game, drink every time Keith says "oil."
Good idea but I've never heard him say 'oil'
First! Anxiously awaiting progress on the Monarch 16", but it's good to see you in the shop making a part. (even if Mr. Bozo showed up)
Enjoyed Keith, have a great Thanksgiving!
ATB, Robin
Very interesting Keith
The hydrostatic lubricator and the feed water inspirator (injector) are surely the most mysterious items found on a steam engine or locomotive. Both utilized "state of the art" physics of the 19th. century. When explaining their function sometimes I have found it necessary to say "How it know to do that"? I am positive that AW680 steam cylinder oil is the source of India ink. Keep up the good work.....Steam Forever.
Chuck Haynes and Micheal Miles The cylinder oil that is used in the hydrostatic lubricator and the mechanical lubricator that feeds the cylinders may or may not be the same stuff. Depends on whether the engine is a soaker or super-heated. Unless the oil is made for the higher temperature of the dry super-heated steam, the oil will break down and not lubricate the way it is supposed to. There are oils for different operating pressures as well as super-heated or non-super-heated use; it makes a big difference. This one looks to be used on 175 psi or under which will be a soaker similar to the loco at the museum.
Thanks for the video.
Well done.
KEITH, PET AN OR TELL ALL HELLO, GREAT VIDEO...
Nice work Keith, Missed it by 3/4 ? Not to worry, practice makes perfect. Especially when it comes to machining.
Right around 24:37, I noticed the exposed threads on the part extending out from the part you screwed into the body and wondered what are those threads for. Tadah ! mystery solved. You are such a patient man. My dog would have been running for cover in my case and the wife asking if everything was OK. Ole Shep seems to know when I goof and just gets up and takes cover until the storm has passed. When I was doing woodwork, turning pens on the lathe, Shep would watch to see where the pen landed, pick it up and head for the bedroom, to hide it under the bed for later chewing.
In your case you just make another part, show us the Bozo part and continue on. Great video as usual and thanks for showing the Bozo . Ole Shep just looks at me, shakes his head and gives me that "see, that's how you do it Mr. Grumpy" ; ) . Take care...Ken... the old guy from Marina CA
You should have polished the brass, lol very nice video, keep them comming.
We all make mistakes :) I just seem to make enough for everybody! Nice job Keith :)
It pays to know a guy. Nice
The closed captioning actually spells it: "oller."
LOL
Keith, I do believe it's called a displacement lubricator, at least here in the UK it would be. CZcams creator David Richards - 'steam powered workshop' is the expert in these matters.
Great job...jobs.
Interesting that the valve end tapers are different angles. Perhaps that is related to the differences in pitch in some way. (Opening per turn, maybe?)
Good to see you're doing well. I haven't seen anything from you even though I have the Bell (Notification) clicked on and have been checking daily. The weather is beginning to change here in Ohio which will aid in getting some work done in my own indoor work area, my basement. Thanks for sharing and teaching our children. God Bless You and your family, Happy Thanks Giving, don't forget to leave a few inches between you and the table my friend.
we call that first one a prototype .nice job love the repair videos
Cool Like the machining vids.
Are you going to have to lap the seat or is that not necessary?
23:21 possible sighting of the elusive South Georgia Swamp Panther....
16:45 - nice chip. :)
Hello there Esq Keith
Nice little project, well finished, even though Mr Bozo pitched up. Gosh He just does not leave us workshop Guys in peace. Had him visit this morn when we were working as well. Dammit :-(
Thanks for sharing
ATB
aRM
As to threads, I have a couple of oilers, I wanted to put the drain valve from a parts Detroit onto one in much better condition. Guess what, it won't fit! It's just a little larger, same thread, same nominal diameter but the threaded hole is a tad smaller and the valve just a hair larger.
I know the exciting stuff is the part being made, but would it be possible to have a camera angle filming you and the machine controls? Even if its just one video; I'll bet i'm the only one interested in this kind of thing. I hear you talking about zero, and waiting for the half nut and dial setting the cross slide for 5 thou. Intuitively I think I know what you're talking about individually, but I've never seen someone operate a lathe and don't have enough of an imagination to know what you're doing.
Sizukun1 you're not the only one who likes to see the operation. I have a lathe and would make a video if I had a project for it. Anyway, if you haven't already, look up Tubalcain (MrPete222, Lyle Peterson) he has excellent teaching videos. And you'll learn a lot from him. Hope that helps.
keithe I think you have a hydrostatic lubricator and the dome is a pulsation dampener if you can find a copy of audels steam engine lubricator
Your surface finish looks really good. Can you tell the speed you used?
23:20 cat detected! Keith, who's your "helper" 😼😾🙀😻👍 oh and. Nice work on that needle valve!
Hello Keith
When are you going to make a cover for that exposed cross feed screw on your lathe?
I see chips clinging to it already.
Hi Keith, when you stop the chuck, what's that rough running Sound in the Background? Is there a bad Bearing in the Beltdrive between the Motor and the Late or in the Motor? Keep up the nice work, greetings from Germany.
We have all been there.
It's probably a British standard ( Whitworth 5/16-18) a lot of early steam stuff still used that system because of England's early domination of steam technology. Or, someone repaired a stripped thread in the body at some point and just oversized the body and made a new stem to fit . And quick saying " basically"
"basically" and "again." If they were eliminated, videos would be 30% shorter! :) LOL !
Give Keith credit though- in his next video you could see he was making a conscious effort not to say basically and only fell off the wagon a few times.
The major thread diameter for 5/16 BSW is .3125, Keiths part was .355. As Keith said, it is some oddball thread, or so it would seem.
These type of devices are built a lot like carburetors wherein similar sized parts have odd threads so that on reassembly parts will only fit where they are supposed to go.
The first piece was the measurement jig!
Well Done :-)
been there done that
I know it has been 3 years and you may not remember but how did you mash your left index finger?
M9 X .75 perhaps? Could it have been a bastardized valve assembly from years past? I have never run across a 3/8-18 thread.
hi Keith sorry if this is a daft question . when you measure the diameter and say its 50 thou over and your take of the 50 thou is that overall or are you taking off 25 thou from each side ? hope that makes sense?
25 thou per side very likely.
If you don't get any video or photos please try and get the info for the locomotive, inquiring train nuts want to know lol
Little tip: You can antique brass by fuming it with ammonia. The new brass looks a bit out of place on the old valve
Different tip, you can make it all match with Brasso :) Patina is crust
give it one day with heat and dirty fingers of the driver and it will match :)
Was the Top slide angle correct on that threading op ?
looks like he threaded straight on, it was a small thread so its fine
Jusb1066 it has the look of a thread cut with the TS at 45 rather than 30
Bill Todd but it looks like he went straight on
the ts angle doesnt matter if you dont use it.
The compound looked to be at the proper 29.5° angle. Looking at the infeed while threading, the tool is moving at an angle, not straight in.
hello keith
Keith needs to keep his arrn awwled. :)
Looks like a hydrostatic lubricator
Interesting to watch, but one potentially really dumb question. With the first unit made, you appeared to wind it into it's existing housing until the threading bottomed out in the fitting. There was no check to see whether the needle had bottomed in the seat to close off the flow. Surely the thread should have been longer to ensure that the needle could bottom in the seat with a couple of turns in reserve? Remember the original part had the handle broken off at some time in the past, and you derived the threaded length from the stub, without allowing for any thread that remained on the missing portion. Come the Mk2 version with scope for the packing, did you also factor that into the modifications, as well as the packing allowance? If not, the port may well still be significantly open when the adjuster is fully wound in because it is limited by threaded length rather than bottoming the needle in the seat.
Good point nicely made. Don't expect a reply from keith.
If the valve broke in a fall, the threads or nut could have been distorted and tight.
Almost thought I was watching Clickspring. :P
Measure twice, cut once :)
Maybe the threads are Whitworth. 8^)
Who doesn't make mistakes 🤔 we all does.
Did you wack your left index finger seem you were keeping it out of the way. Hope not thanks for the vid.
vilsiran noticed that too looked a lil discolored and like he was avoiding pushing or squeezing with it
Hope it heals fast
Smashed fingers can be a real nuisance
what happened to your finger ? ouch
you have to fix it to sell it. I know that story
An oar?.. ole?
Awl.
The way Keith pronounced Oil, as Oar / Awl always cracks me up :) ... Oar-ler / Awl-ler is an extra special bonus for giggles ! I can't help but saying it out-loud when he says it :)
Why don't you thread it first? The old screw machine guy
You're so gifted, you could make water faucets (spigots) from scratch......
Steam parts should be gun metal not brass.....nice video though
grego3150 All of the hydrostatic lubricators I have ever seen on stationary, locomotive, and marine engines have been brass or bronze.
@7:16 those badly stressed headstock bearings are not getting any quieter. Are you thinking of slackening the belts yet?
hahha looks like a mistake I would make.
Obligatory CAT scan
@25:38 you excuse your confusion by blaming the lack of an original part to work from. You have already mentioned the gland packing nut early in the video so we all know that the shaft has to be steam-tight. I watched you impressing your audience with your skills as you made a part that clearly wasn't going to work and then I watched you avoid an opportunity for self awareness and honesty by blaming outside factors for your own serious shortcomings. Why do you portray yourself in this way? ps. @27:18 I see you Keith.
Very interesting, but you referred to various parts as "little" seven times in first three minutes alone. Bad habit and a little distracting.
Who gives a crap? Could you maybe nitpick a "little" bit more? I know, when you make your video, you can show us all how it's done.
Dick, do you have a machining channel we can view to see how it is done?