Is the American Church About to Die? What's Going On? | Matt Dabbs
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- čas přidán 16. 06. 2024
- The church as we have known it in America is in transition...the model of church we are accustomed to is going out the door and it is being replaced by something less centralized, more dependent on God, and more on the margins.
What this means is, the church in America is going back to its roots and the paradigm of church we are used to is dying a slow and painful death.
This presents marvelous opportunity to leverage our resources for the good of the Kingdom!
What is happening out there? How did COVID accelerate the change? What will it look like when the church is pushed out of its comfort zone? What new paradigms are emerging?
I am as hopeful as ever about Christianity in America and the least hopeful I have been on the American version of church that most of us grew up on.
Link to the book - amzn.to/4btv03P
Chapters:
00:00 = Intro
01:01 - COVID acceleration
01:59 - Church on the margins
02:37 - Church out of our comfort zone
04:36 - No condemnation needed
05:07 - Refocused churches
05:44 - Church in the wilderness
08:10 - A parable for our situation
10:31 - Brave New Leaders
11:13 - The Cycle of Church Life
#church #christianity #housechurch
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Blessings,
Matt
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TY Sir. I left also. The dead building corporate style church. Paid professionals putting on a spectator show.
Nothing like a body of believers in assembly. It should be like a family. Making disciples. Teaching all what Jesus commands.
No salaries and building budgets.
TY again.
So glad you left these comments...much appreciated. God bless you!
You just blew me away. I already went through so much of what you said and seen back in the 80's and 90's. Out of the Army and wife left me, in debt, broke...no future, felt like demonic attacking me. Had been only a saved sinner for a couple years with no church. Found a small pentecostal church that I didn't think I wouldn't ever go to....lol. It was a rented little store with just a few people. Tongues, interpretations, helpings, demons cast out, dreams, visions, prophecy, faith, miracles....I lived barely paycheck to paycheck. And the sadness of those days yet God helping me. But the pastor and church determined to stop renting and get a real "church" with stain glass and pews and what looked like church....I was against it, it was too much and soon the blessing began to end. I had dreams of people leaving and some leaving God, and they happened. Told pastor about dream where a flood of water was coming and he and another made the decision to climb up into trees while the flood went by, But I said thats wrong and went to higher ground. and the flood swept even the trees away. This dream I told my pastor and he refused to interpret to me...then began attacking me until we had to leave...because it was revealed late he was a narcissist, very sad and how can that be. Well that church went under for good and the flock either scattered or drowned spiritually...it was all gone. And here I am never able to find another home church and sick of them. Even the pentecostal believing pastors can't and won't get along. I'm like in this wilderness but Jesus took me broking and blessed me, and still with me, Dream in 1984 of a great fire of revival starting in a small place and small way, seeing orange sky and clouds, and seeing my pastor he said shall we go up? I said in Jesus name and up we went into the clouds!!! But I floated back down without him until my feet touched my old home where Jesus came to save me back in 1980. Now all these years later I watch this video and your talking so much about what I already went through years ago. Amazing. People are looking and waiting for that last great revival of fire to happen......some brothers have said they are waiting for something that has already happened. I do not know. But recently I had my own revival where sin and been beating me and somehow some way Christ touched my heart. I wonder if that small place and small way I prohesided in my dream long ago is our own hearts? Instead of trying to make revival happen, or waiting where it might happen next. Why not start right now, in our own hearts....?
My husband and I serve the Lord by ourselves, missing the interpersonal relationships in the body of Christ very deeply. Praying to meet our brothers and sisters...wanting to put up a sign in my yard in inter city Cleveland, OH: "Are there any Christians out there?!! Enquire within!". We can never go back to traditional church model for fear of losing the faith we have. We are 74 and 68 years old and cling to each other but keep our ears to the Lord waiting to hear instructions about what to do when no opportunities present themselves. We can't be what we are not!
God bless you as you serve others...are you in a home church now?
@@revolutionofordinaries No we are not in a home church. How do you find other Christians? I put a fish sticker on our mailbox and a cross on our porch trellis to try to get someone to stop. We call out and interact with as many as we can from the porch and dedicate ourselves to prayer for each one who stops. But so hungry for brothers and sisters in Christ!
@@user-ze3th2kh6n Prayer walk...go out and meet people, pray with them, tell them your mission and invite them.
Is the weak part of the chain people like my husband and me? We don't have the abilities to lead. Without knowing other Christians how can we be part?
@@user-ze3th2kh6n I'm in the same boat with my mom. Praying for you both.
The darker the world gets, the brighter our light shines. At least that's my hope.
Amen! Appreciate your comment.
You are absolutely right.
I appreciate your "optimism" about the church in America ... I am more pessimistic: at least for the shorter term until the judgment of the church nears its end. (1 Peter 4:17) I am nearly 64 and I have been blessed in that the LORD moved us from the "systematic church" to a home church 5 years ago. I wish it had happened 35 years ago. It is a great blessing to have a spiritual conversation with other believers "during church" rather than sit idle in a pew to watch the one man show. We never even considered cancelling the assembling of ourselve during COVID. I believe the LORD blessed our assembly because we trusted HIM!
God has his hand in all of this...appreciate you leaving a comment and getting us to think.
Where 2 or 3 are gathered in His Authority
@ronnieturner1356 the 2 or 3 has to do with resolving sin issues in the church in context of Matt 18.
@@revolutionofordinaries If you only knew who the ecclesia (church) is you would understand the context
@@ronnieturner1356 When Jesus said that the church hadn't even been established yet...we don't know if he meant it in that moment or for all time. Many people, including myself, think he meant it for all time even though elders in that context wouldn't be elders as we have them today.
To say we need 2 or 3 because of Matthew 18 misses the context - Jesus is with those who resolve sin in the church...he works in that process. We just need ONE Christian for Jesus to be present, not 2 or 3. Because we are a temple of the Spirit and He promised to be with us always. And He is!
I agree. I've been referring to this "church" model as the American Cultural Church because for many pastors and congregations the culture of how we've always done it is more important than God's desire for what the church is supposed to be. I am 65 and I'm eagerly awaiting the revolutionary change God is bringing to the church in America.
That's a good way to frame it...appreciate you adding value in the comments!
Excellent video. Comparing this situation to the Exodus is such a perfect analogy. God's people have always viewed themselves as the faithful exiles leaving broken and worldly systems and this is no exception.
Subscribed and eager to hear more.
Appreciate you! Thank you for watching, leaving feedback and subscribing! Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts.
I agree with everything you’ve stated in regards to the decline of the “American church model”. But I believe it’s a little more complex overall. The examples you’ve spoken about apply mainly to traditional, theological conservative denominations. There’s a lot of other churches dying for a different set of reasons. My analogy for what’s happening now in American churches would be based on what Jesus said to his disciples in John 15:1-8. I see certain denominations having capitulated to the increasingly re-paganized culture, and in doing so, have separated themselves from the life source of the Vine. On the other hand, the remaining branches, although faithful in their abiding in the Vine, have grown some wild, unproductive growth (specialized buildings, professional only ministers, attractional programs intended to draw in consumers, the loss of a close fellowship of familial relationships, and a tendency towards sectarianism). The vine dresser (God the Father) is now in the process of pruning off unproductive growth. Yes, it will be painful, but in the end, the harvest will be plentiful.
The mainline liberal churches are dying especially fast...and for a different set of reasons, as you have said! Great comment Robert.
No to the selfish youth being supported. No to the young who are waiting for the elders to die to get their inheritance. No to the church that only supports and wants the young. No to the young who want the elders put in nursing homes only to be forgotten about and sitting alone without any visitors. In our nation in Covid, the elders were screaming out of nursing homes because they were starving to death, because there was no one there to help them or could. The shortage of people we have here, because we have asked for help repeatedly of which was ignored. So now everyone has to live what we have had to live. We are tired of a church that doesn't get the church is made up of alll generations, not just the select few or only the priviledge generation. We are tired of the younger generation who have no qualm in killing off the elders. Shutting them up so they never have a voice, and can't speak of the abuse being done to them. Crying in their souls because they have no one to speak to and the loneliness that they have to come to terms they are going to die alone and the world will pass by and the church will continue to ignore them because they lost their heart and became heartless and on verge of becoming soulless. That is why it is important to rely upon Jesus not a fracade of christianity that is offenisive to all. And the church that is down right despicable to the missions. You don't care about the missions. Where I am, the people here call themselves the forgotten ones, the ones that the church, society, government and everyone forgot about except God. On the grave stones in this area is written Don't forget us. That is exactly what the young want to do. Forget and are forgetful hearers and not doers of the word. The USA church is a betraying church to the nations and to missions. That ignore the cries for help.
I am curious what you have experienced that has led you to express all of this. Sounds like some pain but I don't like to guess at why other write what they write which is why I am asking...appreciating you watching.
How God loves a defender of the defenseless. And your heart is expressing the outrage at the injustice. It sounds like frustration at not being able to fix so great and so many wrongs, and the terrible silence in answer to the begging cries. Where are these, your people, located?
The church I was attending during C-19er , one of the elders stayed home ( basement ?)for 2-years and started a "Zoom study". I was asked if I would like to "join"...." Absolutely NOT" !
We decided to keep meeting with those who wanted to meet. Never took a break. It was wonderful.
@@revolutionofordinaries I left that church. I can't stand weak elders.
Amen, brother.
Thank you Tim!
Fascinating. I was a vital volunteer for years and it was so hard to vacation or do other things because I had no back up person. I had a health crisis unrelated to my church work and they got a new volunteer for my vital position.
Funny how that happens! Appreciate you leaving a comment.
I am soon-to-leave the UMC. I have already been attending Sunday School with a disaffiliated group that feels like family. I will simply begin attending their church services too.
Is there how you grew up? UMC?
Good points all around Matt. We continue to minister to the unhoused on a regular basis. I have an emotional attachment to physical buildings, but its very freeing to not have that earthly attachment and can simply serve God where the people are.
Tell us more about your ministry! That sounds like such important work. Appreciate you leaving a comment.
@@revolutionofordinaries Every Sunday morning at 11:30 AM we have a church service under a tree in Borell park. The park is located on Nebraska avenue, near MLK drive. It's a VERY rough part of town. We sing, pray, have a sermon and take communion with a number of volunteers and members of the unhouse community. After service, we all have lunch together. Every other week, we give out bags of nonperishable food items. We've been doing this for over 3 years now and have had one wedding, two baptisms and one eulogy associated with this ministry. The Lord put this on the heart of my wife Nicolle during the pandemic. I was raised attending a church of Christ and very much like my comfort. I would sit in the same spot on the same pew every week. I thought I'd miss the building and the tradition, but God has called us to go and do his work. That's all that matters. Feel free to check out our temp website for more details. sites.google.com/nicollejones.com/praise-in-the-park-tampa
I couldn’t agree more. During Covid in my own studying I came to realize the “modern church model” was too focused on “How to and What to….” Instead of WHO to and WHY to! God is soooooo MAGNIFICENT and the more I realize His great holiness I have to erase the ways and teaching of the past 20 years to grab onto something more Godly. I too have been questioning is what I had been doing, the best I can do? Is that what He meant for us from day one?…. Or was church something that just “evolved” and as sheep we just walked along in the evolutionary path….. It’s scary to change for sure, but with all my soul it’s GOOD! And it’s good to hear out loud the same things from another believer.
Wish I could double heart this comment! Yes! Thank you for sharing your insightful comment and for watching Francine!
Great word. Thank you
You are so welcome! Appreciate you leaving a comment.
This is an excellent point. The corporatization of the Church has done more to wrap God’s image around it than any other aspect except for possibly the current state of worship music.
Wow I really needed to hear this. Like a previous comment I have been rather pessimistic about the future of the American church but I have come to be convicted about that. I have studied all the great revivals from LA to Wales God always moved during the darkest times. Your message is confirmation that God has a plan for America and I choose to trust His plan. Thank you so much. I pray God continues to bless your ministry.
You would love the book "Houses that Change the World" By Simson...covers what you are talking about here. Appreciate you and your comment.
Love your heart for God and for His children! Grace and peace to you in the Lord Jesus Christ!
God bless you and thank you for the HUGE compliment/word of encouragement. Appreciate you taking the time to comment Roger!
The "location of your worship" (1:15) - this is a major part of the problem. We see "worship" as compartmentalized and separate from "real life." Same with most Christian activities. According to Romans 12:1 our entire lives make up our worship. I'm sure you know this, Matt - but most churchified American Christians probably don't. An excellent plumber doing his best plumbing for the glory of God does not need a praise band. His life is worship. (our "Bible colleges" should be transformed into technical colleges.)
Very very very well said!
People come into church, and play church, follow a program then go home. Sad. I remember a small rented building church back in the 80's. Everyone shared every service what God was doing, sharing a scripture, praying, singing, all with never a program. Sadly everyone wanted a stainless real "church" with pews.....and when it happened it literally died. It stopped being real life.
We’ve been going and working in churches faithfully since the mid 80’s. Only time we left s church is when we moved. Our last church we left it because of a narcissist controlling pastor. We had been going to that church faithfully for 22 years. There’s been other people leave that church too because of pastor. It just feels weird to not go to church and miss services. We started going to several churches checking them out. I just don’t feel comfortable at any of them really. We did meet up with the ex members and went together to one church. I feel like God wants me out of churches. I’m praying for guidance in what to do.
Ask, seek and knock! God will show the way if we have eyes to see...appreciate you leaving a comment.
Went through same thing with a great little church but it fell apart and died with our narcissist pastor being exposed in the end. I don't do church anymore either...don't feel alone, there is many of us out there.
Lateral, Relational, House Church.
The Institutional church works against relationships.
Lots of truth there Rory! Love that first line especially. Appreciate you leaving a comment.
Hi Matt, I just came across your channel and so far I agree with what Ive seen. I came to Christ after reading the NT outside the church and have struggled what I now come to see is churchianity. I found comfort in the writings of Ray Stedman. You sound a lot like him. Body Life is probably his most known work. Are you familiar with him?
I think you inadvertently addressed the real problem in the beginning of your video when you mentioned “worship” without identifying what that really is, leaving its definition hanging. The modern evangelical church throws that word around as if it, first, understands what it is and, secondly, misrepresenting its importance. We think that it means gathering in a certain place and singing songs and hearing a message when the early church connected it more to being separate from the carnal world around them. The admonition is not to “strive …for the worship apart from which no one shall see the Lord” Hebrews 12:14 but, rather “strive…for the holiness apart from which no one shall see the Lord”. We have redefined “worship” and then elevated this distorted view of “worship” to a level that Scriptures do not. Places like Willow Creek and Hillsong no longer hold the position they once did but the error they introduced into the Body still lives on.
Many of us made church the focus...and that's where we got lost in the weeds. Thanks for your comment!
That is a very good way of putting it. Couldn’t agree more.
@@CSUnger Thanks CSU!
Amen
Thank you for leaving a comment EDK...God bless you!
After 44 years of undergoing the gauntlet in the American "Church", my advice to you and your fans is to watch and pray that they might escape the horrors to come and to stand before Him, the one they have truly been seeking. Are you seeing what's happening my brother? "Fixing" the American church should be the least of our concerns and our efforts. Jesus is at the door and will be arriving to take away the faithful in only a few weeks. He scolded those for not responding to the signs pre-emptive to His first Advent, as will He on His second.
Thank you so much for what I to be a very prophetic word about the future of the church in America.
Appreciate your feedback! God bless you!
NEW JERUSALEM COMES WITH NO TEMPLE , SHALOM
LIKE ALSO, TODAY IS GODS SABBATH DAY ! SHALOM
God bless you and thanks for taking the time to comment!
The "Church" has not been a Biblical model for a long time (see 1 Cor 14) but rather focused on one person (aka pastor) and in more recent times the accompanying show. Added with the slippery slope of how grace (just let me live my sinful life) is applied and poor doctrine, and you have a mess. When in the first century the biggest dispute was 'do we circumcise the gentiles' and 'what do we do about gentiles', that should tell a person where it was, not this goofy Greek pagan based religion that reflects little of the Jewish Messiah.
That's true of many but not all...there are some great people out there doing amazing work...appreciate you leaving a comment David!
Im in a sad position here. There is very little in the way of traditional church here,much less any kind of informal house church tyoe gatherings. Very few Christians here are interested in aby kibd if serious church life. Im pretty much on my own.
A few thoughts, if you are open to them...pray for revival...ask God to bring the people. We often feel like Elijah on the mountain thinking we are the only one left when God has thousands ready to move. And we had no idea! Ask God to bring them forward...ask God for revival. Find anyone who will pray and pray together...seek God's direction. Ask God for workers to go into the harvest field...prayer walk...meet people, love them well, and pray for them. See if God doesn't bring the growth of something new.
I agree… There is woeful lack of true, prolonged discipleship (ie Navigators 2:7 which was a 2 year commitment)… further what passes for discipleship is rarely producing new disciplers… Add to that the lack of apologetic teaching for our congregants and youth and we are left with an American church totally unprepared for the swiftly arriving persecution of Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21…
Thank you Jim...we have to get back to deep, relational disciple making. It is lacking!
A good case study is Australia. 15 years ago, they had similar religiosity as the US today. Christianity is currently under 50% there. The folks in liberal denominations simply became nonreligious, and the more conservative churches began aging out. Down to 43.9% and dropping like a stone. I think the US faces a similar future, with Catholicism stabilizing a bit due to immigration from Latin America. Unless that's stopped, in which case Christianity drops under 50% by 2045.
a long time in coming. The church model has been on life support for about 30 years.
There will always be some larger churches...they are all over the world even where most churches are tiny. God will keep using them but the tide overall is turning.
Another big problem is our culture. Most churchgoers, wherever they are on the faith spectrum, are pulled by a vortex into the polluted culture of the world. In many 3rd world countries that is not the case. But here it is like in Rev. 2; "you are rich, you are spoiled, you are fat, you lack nothing..." (paraphrasing!) and as a result the church is lax. People don't realize what a negative impact this has; instead of purity and holiness it is pollution and mud to some degree and folks are so blinded to it by secular music, movies, entertainment, must have's, etc as well as sinful addictions. Even a minor amount of these things is enough to quench the fire. That is why there is no passion in the worship time and they are all half asleep.... guilt! The churches are not Spirit filled like they used to be, there is no pursuit of holiness like there should be, and worship is dry and not Spirit filled (I'm pretty old so I know). This is the main thing that is killing the church here in the US.
Well then, read the novel “Where Do We Go Now, LORD? - Burke.” Explains much. Very much. Enjoy!
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28They are all grievous revolters, walking with slanders: they are brass and iron; they are all corrupters.
29The bellows are burned, the lead is consumed of the fire; the founder melteth in vain: for the wicked are not plucked away.
30Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them. (Jer. 6:28)
Even though the wolves in sheep's clothing try to destroy God again, they fail again and again, because everyone can see their hypocricy and lies and Jesus WAS Victorious, so they only harm themselves.
That's true of some but not all. Appreciate you taking the time to comment.
What are you seeing out there? What is happening in your church? Has it shut down? Let's talk about the real story.
My church shut down during Covid for several months, but then re-opened later in 2020. They did online services and so we kept connected in that way, and it was easier to sit on my couch and watch church on the TV than to meet with people in person. But I felt that the Lord wanted my family to go back and to not shrink back, but to trust Him that He could keep us healthy.
The Body of Christ will always be alive and well because it is not the building or the program, rather, it is the fellowship of the true believers.
Amen amen!
Thanks for the video! I saw an image of the church moving towards the "fringes" where Christ is. And the rest of the world/its institutions moving in the other direction. We need to be where God is. I have one comment about not "condemning" the institution that God uses. And I hope that I can say it in a very gracious way.
God can use many things. He can even use a nonbeliever to share the Gospel and the Gospel will save people because it is God's Word. However, Jesus also says that the Word is like a seed that can multiply 30x or 100 x in the parable of the sower. "But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.” Matt. 13:23. Christians can do things the old way of the institution and it can still multiply a crop. However, a Christian who follows ALL of God's commands not only shows outwardly how much we love Jesus (John 14:21), but can multiply an even bigger crop 100X. A pure and unadulterated reading of scripture shows that God has a prescribed way of doing church. From my reading, the current institutional model is disobedience to God's commands which is why we have all our problems today. This verse came to mind. "In those days Israel had no king; all the people did whatever seemed right in their own eyes." Judges 17:6.
Saying that doesn't mean I am condemning anyone because Christians are under grace. But I want to highlight that as Christians we need to lay down what we want or what we think. We don't need to be scared of stirring the pot because the pot needs to be stirred. The prophets spoke against things in societies that weren't going right and weren't in obedience to God. We can't continue to say that every Christian can do church the way they want. That is actually a worldly way of thinking. "A Live and let live way of thinking." Who is church actually for? Us? Or God? As the church, let us all repent of following our own ways and submit to the wonderful instructions and commands of God." In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome," (1 John 5). We can be clear that sin is disobeying God. And if the current church model isn't in the Bible, continuing in it is sinful. And we can see that the fruit of the current church is bad. Of course, we should be very patient and gracious with those who disagree and are just starting to think about doing church in a new way. Also, God might call certain people to the institutional church for a time. But that time might be coming to an end very soon. And He might call all of us out in His timing.
Thanks again for your videos and wisdom!
We can't be afraid to speak the truth...will continue saying what needs to be said. Trying to be fair and not feel like we figured out the perfect path and that those on another path in how church is done are messed up automatically.
@@revolutionofordinaries Thanks for the response. I totally see your heart and how compassionate you are towards the church. In a sense, all of us Christians have messed up. We sin and we repent. We were all in the institutional church model at one point or another and God has so much grace for us. That being said, While we won't be completely perfect and without sin on this earth, we will continue to move from glory to glory with ups and downs along the way. And when we as the church together fully step out in faith and trust that God's ways are the direction to go and that His sheep hear his voice, the fruits will flow from that. God's power is to make us godly. And we are called to be perfect as He is perfect. "Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will." Rom. 12:2. There may be naysayers and people who don't get it yet. But if they truly hear God's voice, they will get it eventually. I really appreciate your ministry and heart for seeking God and His Will! Keep going! I will be praying for you and praying that God's voice rings clear in your ears and that you are confident that He is guiding your steps. Because He is! He does not give a spirit of confusion, but love, power, and sound mind. 2 Tim. 1:7.
A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the flock you will have clowns entertaining the goats. (C.H. Spurgeon)
That does happen in some places but by and large ministers are good people doing good work.
That's about 80% of churches from where I'm from. We have all these chain churches popping up and they are a joke.
@@silence19999 Those chain churches are compliments of the pentecostal movement. there are several in topeka and they are nothingburgers, no doctrinal teaching and all twanging and banging on a lit up stage etc.
@galewollenberg786 there are lots of varieties from various denoms
Right on brother. The Big Eva have been using the Home Depot, Lowe's, Walmart etc etc as the template for 'building a church'. First, get stats on the city, neighbourhood and cost of real estate. Second, send out flyers about how great this new church is going to be, great programs for every need and for everyone attending, weekly rock concerts....oops, I mean worship service, awesome parking, organic coffee and last but not least, we won't bore you with talking about 'sin' (boo hoo) repentance (we're all trying our best) but uplifting and encouraging 25 to 35 mins pep talk, oops, I mean positive verses. You'll love us....This message is approved by Jonathan Roumie, oops, I meant The Lord Jesus.
My wife and I are going through a desert right now since our last churches have turned out to be Hard Core Calvinistic and the last one led by a young, immature narcissistic man who needs to control EVERYTHING & Everyone. Sadly, we lovingly attempted to share our concerns with others but they decided to stay and close their eyes to his controlling leadership. Honestly, we're close to never stepping into another church again but praying the Lord will lead us to other like-minded believers. God bless you. Your videos truly help us be at peace with our journey right now.
I did one video on the signs of a narcissistic pastor...sounds like it would resonate. Sorry you went through that! Thanks for the comment.
Too late, the traditional format is on a respirator as we speak, evangelical wolves disguised as sheep will soon be in charge of the country and true believers will have to go under ground
Sadly, the American church has become nothing more than a religious service provider with consumers patronizing its service. The church markets itself in such a way as to attract the most consumers. Sunday morning for most is just a box to check to make one feel connected to God. Meanwhile, daily services in the actual temple are neglected in lieu of that Sunday service. The daily service in the temple that is designed to bring God glory has lost its prayer, power and its praise. I don't believe this 'church ' model is what God had in mind.
As fewer people are interested in those goods and services, the numbers go down. Thanks for leaving a comment.
Actually, I LIKE the idea of a huge mega-church facility ... just don't call it "church." Make it a Christian Community Center - a safe space where there is maybe a youth basketball league, an auditorium for talent shows, a study for helping kids with homework ... AND facilitated opportunities to meet believers and form house churches. Run the place like a cruise ship, have events for "whosoever will" but make it clear that this is NOT "CHURCH". czcams.com/video/OwF8iOSghOI/video.html -- think of how this resource might have been used. Of course, it's in Akron and with the destruction of the local economy came the flight of the population.
Ohhhh....I like this! Great idea Steve. Thanks for the amazing comment!
Repent and believe in and on Christ without the "Experts" and the Holy spirit will bring true narrow way believers to your door or you to them without a district or "system" Then your relationship with Christ will change those and the world around you Set your mind on things above. God bless you.
Thank you Galloping Guppy! Appreciate you leaving a comment. You are a blessing.
Is there anything wrong with brick and mortar? As we know the people are the church, you talked about moving here and there, malls etc which is all good and well, but that takes money and it takes volunteer / servants to set up etc .Why don't you use your old brick and mortar facility, preach and teach the word disciple and serve.
The million-dollar question that you pose and so many others that sounds simple but it's not, is how many people actually want to be discipled 2 Timothy 2:2? For those that want to be discipled they can be one-on-one or by going to functions and studies. But after it's all said and done, how much is really new under the Sun for the American Church model?
There is nothing morally wrong about having a church building. If you want to make disciples that is free. Disciples aren't made by sermons or in Bible class. Disciples are made intentionally and in one on one or VERY small groups. None of what Jesus told us requires a church building. The channel has quite a few videos on Jesus-style disciple making for those who want to learn...and many are learning and implementing.
@@revolutionofordinaries
your reply basically is what I stated in my first comment. My point is don't knock Church facilitys especially those that is already paid for that believers can use, and yes discipleship can by anywhere. But I have to disagree with you that discipleship is teaching/sermon it's many things.
@@DS-md7jn I think we are in basic agreement. A few points - the building isn't inherently wrong but like anything else that exists - it can be turned into something that is wrong in our attitude toward it...it can become an idol and it can suck up resources that could be used to do things Jesus told us to do that often go neglected...like you pointed out - make disciples. Barna found that half of Christians didn't even know what the Great Commission is!
The sermon is not going to disciple someone. It can be one piece in a larger plan but discipleship is relational and sermons are not relational.
❤@revolutionofordinaries the obvious chaos within Christianity maintained by using confusing vocabulary, to start. Church! We hear it applied to buildings, to programs, denominations and ministries. Jesus makes His Church just as He promised to make fishermen into fishers of men. The Joshua leading movement and desert metaphor also revisits an unhelpful period towards a land of promise which leads with a carrot of improvement just slightly smaller than prosperity gospel. That said, the institutionalizations and programming, even the creation of sub-churches for leaders assembling followers for themselves should not survive. The Kingdom affects all participants who in turn affect the whole and its parts. We do need action, a releasing yet again but I fear the teaching, listening, support or semantical debates sound progressive but simply embed believers into a new form of the old way. Do you see and hear this observation in a positive light?
I do...we have to keep going back to God...keep surrendering to His lead...keep seeking the Spirit's guidance...be grounded in the word...be diligent in fasting and prayer...be humble and partner with God. It is the only way forward.
@@revolutionofordinaries My vision encompasses an online gathering and concerted training and release of Christian engagement in Holy Ghost prayer and leadership. Instead of fellowship and agreement in doctrine in channel comments, visitation of ministry channels to encourage brethren to testify of Salvation and the need for idle believers to no longer leave all the heavy Kingdom lifting to “leaders”. They should stop subscribing (sorry) and start following Him?
What happened to burn you, bro?
Nothing...we are thriving. Not sure why you would assume that.