Do we Really Need Another TB-303? (And is the $170 Donner B1 a good one?)
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
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*I did open it up, there are no recognizable filter chips. Discrete copy of the diode ladder, perhaps?*
more important edit I reworked my audio setup to incorporate this new camera, and I can hear some artifacting in the upload. I am going to hard reset my recording / mixing workflow after this, I should be better at this by now.
Donner Affiliate Link, I can get a kickback no matter what you buy. Use code JORB at checkout, lol
shrsl.com/3pnl5
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0:00 Intro
3:16 Sound Generation
6:03 Effects
8:54 Sequencer this is the important part
15:05 Arp
16:29 Skillshare
17:33 Conclusions - Hudba
As Norman Cook said, or as the song is called, Everybody needs a 303. The more options the merrier in my opinion.
I mean... Everybody Needs a 303
It's common knowledge
lol
I gave away my TD-3 and ordered this. It just sounds better to my ears. Recent update fixed a few issues from what I’ve read. Looking forward to working with it. Thanks for the video! 😎👍🏼
I think it's a brilliant product, especially from an alternative company other than Behringer that is making an original clone if this makes sense?
It's really affordable too for people who are just starting out.
I think both volca basses offer more. The nubass offers the tube distortion and sub-bass, the original offers 3 voices which can be controlled independently which allows you a bit more creative freedom.
The Behringer offers the closest experience to the original, I don’t see the point of the Donner.
@@Kdkjdjewerdnxa Nubass was a bit of a bomb unfortunately. Will probably be a cult synth in the future.
@@ShakaCthulu alongside the tomcat lol. Nubass is not really up my attic but it's definitely a cool synth, I agree with you that it might have some sort of weird niche cult following in the future
Loved this video. Even though I have one on my shelf, I still really enjoyed your exploration of this piece of gear.
Cheers David, I really appreciate that. 🙏
Great video, and the camera's delivering a gorgeous, warm shot! I
Well shit. was not expecting to think this little box was actually kinda sick. I love having a Behringer TD-3 because it really delivers the fantasy, and was tempted to get a second for the Full Rebirth 338 experience, and here's the weird thing: this sounds like my memory of 303 software in the 90s. It has this weird VA vibe that makes me wanna listen to Crystal Method and wear Tripp pants. That's awful, but I kinda love it.
I really like mine (I don't own a 303 clone), because it's fun and at an excellent price point. I agree, all I needed to go with it is a 4 on the floor bass pattern. My Roland T-8 does just fine. I probably will get bored eventually but it doesn't take up much space, so I can store it and bring it out 6 months later and it's fun all over again.
Good to meet you at Knobcon (this is Mitch from Madisynths)! Yes, I always need another 303!!! I built a RE-303, am a beta tester for the Audiorealism ABL3 VST, and use D16 Phoscyon2 VST a good bit.
I could see picking one of these up. It sounds good enough, and it’s a nice alternative tone to what I already have. I could layer up a bunch of ABL3’s, but sometime I’d rather take a couple similar-ish tones, but not identical ones. The ratchets are unique though, so that’s cool.
Great review, those sequencer options are super tempting...
Talkin' about tapping into the zeitgeist! I hadn't even heard of this thing until I got back from Knobcon yesterday and here you are today giving the world the low down! BTW, it was great seeing you, good sir! Hopefully next time we can plan something ahead so we'll be able to grab a bite and actually catch up.
I think your observation is excellent here. Do we need another, perhaps not. However, Donner seems to have done something right. Keep in mind that the sequencer in the original TB-303 is a pain in the @$$. This is so simple and with the lit keys, editing is a breeze. That is something that sets it apart. I also love the fact that they give you two octaves to work with as well. One of the classic TB-303 tricks is to slide up an octave and it's much easier to do that if you have two octaves before you.
As always, your insight is golden and your enthusiasm for these tools is genuine and infectious! Congrats on the new camera! Peace to you, my friend!
Neat to see another video with this synth. It's super basic, super affordable, and super cool.
Great video!
Cheers, thank you!
Nice sounds and fresh interface. Wont be picking one up since i already have a Volca Bass and TD-3-MO. If i see it at my local synth shop ill definitely give it a whirl!
I picked one up the week it launched, because it was cheap enough to take a punt on, and it has absolutely the best sequencer of any 303 clone (I've had the XoXbox, Acidlab Bassline and still have a Behringer). It sounds as good as the Behringer but it does not have the traditional sequencer, which is a big plus. It's like playing with Rebirth from back in the day.
Better than the FR777? (I still can't believe I sold that one...)
The Cyclone TT303 has an amazing sequencer too. Lots of options, very inspiring to use.
The avalon bassline has by far the best sequencer of any 303 that i have used. About €1000 new though
I have wanted a hardware version of d-lusion rubber duck for years.
I have the behringer one, not sure I would get this one too, however I think the illuminating buttons that light up when you push them are really cool. the sound is pretty convincing it has that velcro like fuzzy sound that I like so much. the delay is cool too.
The Behringer is the best one .
Can confirm that the JORB code also works on the german site. Great review as always! 🖤
Hell yeah, use it on everything lol
bought myself one with a few guitar pedals with ur code Jorb, and it saved me $61 off the whole order. Not bad. =]
😭🙏🙏😅
Great review I actually like it a lot. The ratchet I feel makes it unique. I feel like the price point is juicy too.
Thought about it for a second when it was released and abandoned the thought because: Don't need another 303
High key fair
Well I DO!! Okay??!!
@@commanderdnb919 I can dig it
Everyone needs a (another) 303
False. Yes you do.
Making a "smart" product video - Jorb style: Finally switches lights on in his room! ...GOT to love him! 😆
Same lights, the new camera has way more options, I'm compromising the balance in fewer places
@@JorbLovesGear Awesome! Thank you! 👍
Congratulations for the new camera..
Keep on with the good work! 🤗
Can't help but be a little curious/nosy about the other product... Always love your videos!
Donner did a nice job with the B1. I hope they come out with other synth products in the future. Imagine if they could do a DFAM clone that has a resettable sequencer and more than 8 steps. I'd be interested.
I like this little 303 clone a decent bit as well. Ironically, the last video I did was on it mo ths ago and I haven't gotten back to doing another one. My big gripe though was how all the main buttons are all right in that one spot and nothing is color coded for a more fast workflow so it gets way too easy to accidentally hit the wrong buttons. I've actually managed to mess up quite a few sequences (patterns!) because of that.
Jorb loves gear from the 80s, and now has the stache to match!
😂😂😂😂
He'll be living in Greenpoint in no time 😁😜
All he needs now is a mullet.
Congrats on the new camera! I know, that it's added editing complexity, but you could use your old camera for the oscilloscope shots, so they always stay in focus. Very good video, as always!
I've done that in the past, I'm resistant to the editing complexity, you get it
@@JorbLovesGear Have you considered using a simple SW scope like Red Means Recording ?
New camera looks good!
Thank you, lots to learn!
I'd say yes we need another *really good* one cause most of the best ones you mentioned are either out of production or hard to find (x0xb0x, Avalon, RE-303, Cyclone v1)
Nice vid. I bought one of these and it actually was a decent enough piece of gear, especially for the money. But In the end I decided to return it. This company is an absolute nightmare to deal with from a customer service standpoint! Very difficult to obtain return authorization within the 30 day return window and even after I shipped the unit back I had to continually pester them to actually return my money. Beware.
Fantastic *exposure* for Donner here.
Well yeah, how else was I going to pay them?
lmao
Thanks Jorb, worth seeing you views on this.....;I also dont need another 303 😮- but this does seem a great first effort for this company, sequencer is pretty cool & sounds VERY good! to me.... almost want to get one just to support them as I really think they’ve got potential (& it’s also a way to justify to myself I’m not wasting money in getting another 303 clone 😅)
Donner K-BAB1 is my favorite food after a night out
I'm sold. Have a Behringer TD-3 already but I'm adding this to my collection.
Loving beardless 'Acid Techno Jorb'!!!
🤣😂I wish I hadn't recorded this before knobcon, I would say I've been inspired
Your demo was so good I almost wanted one but can just do all this and a lot more with free plugins on any decent PC.
what plugins you recommend as Im looking for some.
Missed a great chance to program the riff to 'Donner' Summers, 'I feel love'
That is actually one of the presets!
I’m happy with my Behringer clone for that old school blind sequencer that lends itself well to happy accidents. This thing has the same sonic qualities but the sequencer definitely seems a lot more flexible
I have been doing 303 bassline sounds in software for over 15 years and is very easy to do.
@@HOLLASOUNDS ok
i had a donner "eternal bind" loop pedal, it was the best 20$ dollars ive ever spent on gear. it had tape echo, delay, reverb, and infanite tape looper. its probably the cheapest looper you can find and its actually better than i expected
I wasn't expecting to like this well enough to buy one actually... two octaves, an arp, and the live performance tweaks are a great deal. And you don't have to get a delay pedal. The live performance features too actually work quite handily with the DrumBrute. Count me in!f
There's an aux in? I'll have to rewatch, I didn't see you cover it.
Aux in just mixes with the out, not through the filter or anything
Very nice video ! 😃
Great review as always. Glad to hear your take on this 303 clone.
High key I want to try more now
@@JorbLovesGear this, the Moog Mavis East beast , West Pest Dredbox dysmetria all giving me gas ⛽️ lately
@@SonicVibe lots of sick little monks, I totally agree
At this price point it's the only synth I can even consider buying. Gonna keep my eye on it.
I think the Acid 8 MK2 is maybe the coolest acid box that's not a 303. Its got something a little different to offer, that 8 bit voice is such a fresh take on the acid sound. This Donner sounds OK, I have been using their pedals for years.
dude i read your comment and did some youtubing and bought an acid 8. those things sound spectacular!!! im an old school acid lover but the acid 8 really does have a modern unique twist. respect! i may also have bought a drum machine off them too lol. its a mk3 acid 8 by the way. cheaper but with all the good sounds.
It's cool to see donner make synths, sounds good but if it's anything like their pedals I've had experience with I'm good 👍..... But I need one lol
Glad I saw this before buying any other clones, this seems perfect for me
Jorb is the synth gawd! I wish I had your knowledge brother
🙏🙏Keep watching, I'll give it all away 😅😅😅
you doing the 303 thing real good bro :]
Maybe it’s the overdrive and the delay, but for some reason the sound reminds me less of the classic Acid House 303 and more like the kind of sounds you heard artists make in the 90’s and early aughts with the 303. That Hard Acid/Rave/“Electronica” 303 sound.
I feel like any 303 released nowadays really needs to have a sub osc to be useful and they missed the boat on that. there is still definitely a market for a cheapo 303 clone with subosc.
Maybe they could have swapped out the Delay for a Sub-Osc. I don't feel like the delay adds much.
no
Sub osc on a 303? No thanks. Not a 303 sound anymore if it has that.
Volca Bass!
The algorithm loves this video. It's been recommended to me 20 or so times since you've released it.
did you watch it 20 or so times?
@@JorbLovesGear I didn't watch until the 20th time lol. I had planned on it but kept seeing it
No cv and gate out kills it for me, can always use another sequencer for eurorack stuff. About Sequencers, i recently found out how awesome the one of the volca nubass ist, being able to completely change the pattern while running, choose active steps, ad and remove slides and accent all on running sequence. That would be my standard.
NICE 👍 THANKS 🙏 I DEFINITELY SUBSCRIBED
I had to pause your video - to go and buy one. I came back and finished the video though! 😂 Thank you!
Love the Phoscyon 2 from d16
Wow, this does some tricks that others don’t do. If i didn’t already have two 303 style synths, id get this. 😅
Cool product, but for the moment Im very happy with the TD3 😊
It’s a tidy little piece of kit. I think for what it’s trying to be, Donner nailed it.
I still think that...yes the korg volca "beats" combines the best of both the 808 and 909. I have had it for years and still discover functions i wasn't aware of [though i absolutely love korg- and they kinda started the whole inexpensive but still they put out quality but often unintuitive]
I’m going to get one and put it on the shelf next to the Moog Minitaur. We’ll see which one wins.
I keep repeating the KingKorg is a great VA synth including 303 filter emulation.
Everyone needs a 303, therefor we need several billion of them!
We will never truly have enough until Josh from JHS Pedals clones one.
Thank you for this video. I have actually been in the market for a 303 clone because i still have no hardware 303 in my studio and I want one. I have been leaning heavily towards the TD3-MO but due to its lack of ability to automate anything over MIDI I've been a bit turned off. Thanks to you mentioning the pile of clones at the beginning I realized I totally missed the AS-1. I completely ignored it because of the whole Pioneer DJ aspect. I remember seeing them here and there but never cared. I never even looked at it. Amazing, and totally midi controllable, and must be higher quality than the Behringer. Thanks for waking me up.
Yikes I spoke waaaaay too soon. It's cool as hell but I havent heard one demo that even comes close to it sounding like a 303. I don't think the sequencer is capable of doing it properly which is too bad. I'm totally cool with it having it's own sound but not so far away with the sequencer.
Depends how much you want to spend. If you have enough money get the DinSync. It essentially IS a tb303.
wow, i want one!!!! awesome!!!
I'll be damned. I couldn't order previously from Donnerdeals, I'm in Sweden and Donnerdeals used to only be avalible for the US and maybe Canada but that has apparently changed. I bought one from the German Donnerdeals site that apparently now exists and it seems I'll be getting it and no shipping either so I guess that goes for all members of the EU. My german is pretty non-existent but I think I'll be getting a free violin stand as well! That violin stand will come in handy for my non-existent violin!
Thank you for the review and all and thanks Donner for the code and violin stand!
I have shipped synth gear to Sweden before, if you need a product hit me up.
Hi!
Have you already been able to reproduce drum sound like in Donner's advertising?
Having watched the entire video through, 1stly, this bests the TB3 which I had 2. It was a BS affair to get anything really going and having to use a PC tethered to it to set up the FX section was total BS.
The Donner Kebab303 is as easy as it gets, with 1 downfall, it's mono so will the FX be.
You hit the nail on the head for live perf, it's intuitive, it does what you want and it just simply works.
No BS menu diving, simple swap of the Jorb ™®©volume to filter hack is the only thing you would ever need to worry about.
I don't think ratchet works well on 303s but the slide/glide is something that would be missed if not on here.
It's a simple and effective way to get your grove on, I am tempted, will just have to wait and see.
🎉 This makes me want to have a Donner party 😉
Underrated comment!
Not bad at all. The UI is very simple & effective. The 2 octave Keyboard is a nice feature too. Under 200 €/£/$ is the right way for what it is. (I hope it stays at this price in Eurrope) Only a sub OSC is missing. The simple performance & programming features are the main „sellpoint“. Quick & dirty 303 sounds without the annoying programming process while you work out ideas. I think I really like it.
€230 right now. The crave is the better buy for that price! Crazy to think I got mine for around €160 a couple years ago lol
Good vid sub par synth. What 303 clone do you recommend?
Honestly, this one
sounds wicked
HI great video, So you would recommend the Behrinhger td 3 ?
Can i use a pattern from an usb for example from fl studio and play it on the synth without a computer connected? Does it have a memory? Thanks
I haven't used the behringer one!
Both will respond to midi, and velocity can trigger the accent, but I'm not sure how they each handle slides, and that would depend on what you're using to send a sequence
Nice camera, mustache and video!
🫡🫡
there can NEVER be enough 303
A 303 is cool, the hilarious part is countless people trying to emulate the sound with different machines , since the beginning of it all. Is it that necessary to do so when it comes to making music?
Nope. It just needs to sit in the mix. Imo a real TB is all about the sequencer. It's not just a sequencer, as it responds to the audio source in conjucntion, musically(!). That's the part you need to get right-> HOW it responds when sequencing.
The audience doesn't care, why should you? And if you think they do, you need to rethink your ego.
All these 303 'experts' wasting time on details that don'tmatter , but only to them LOL
I could argue about my favorite 303 clone sound, but I wont. In this age, it's stupid, and a waste of time.
I have 2 TD's, why? 100 bucks! and they sound great!.....job done. Now shut up and start making some proper music.
90% of original TB303 users never even heard a new sounding unit. They all get horny on that 'analog aging' sound bs. That is until their unit just gives up and dies. Yup it aged very well LOL
Nice camera, white balance? a little yellow looking, slightly soft focus or loss in codec?
I have jaundice actually
Also I am blurry in real life
Honestly if the behringer is anything like the rd 6 then this interest me a lot more. Plus for the price why not
When I saw it, I thought it was ugly, but it's growing on me after hearing it. It's definitely not a 303, but i like the sound. Have you tried the korg nutekt tube thingie?
I haven't tried the nubass, but I don't think people loved it
Definitely would like to see Jorb take a stab at the Nubass. Not popular but a very peculiar 303-ish synth.
@@raistaparta yes. I don't know what it's like to program but I think that a lot of people were expecting a 303 clone, but I don't think it was ever meant to be one. I think it's got an interesting sound.
Same general sound (and more) now available for under 5 US DOLLARS (currently) on iPad and iPhone with 2 new apps: 1. ELECTROBASE 2. THE 404
The update bricked my B1 because the app crashed during.....I sent a message to Donner service but they have not replied and it has been about 3 weeks, do you have a way I can better get ahold of them? The reset method will not work and the synth is stuck in the update mode but wont take an update now
Sounds a million times better than the TD-3...I thought my TD-3 was defective...so I bought another....they just don't sound right to me. I ended up modding um with some weird mods and selling um.
I’m more interested in that lovely mustache ;)
That Roland you're using. Is it the older Tr8 or the Tr8s?
Which do you prefer?
TiA
Thats a TR8, but i wish i really wish I could change samples
Great Video as usual. However the if you open up the Donner Yellowfall pedal you will see it not really an analog delay, it actually uses a PT2399 chip to digitally emulate an analog delay
The PT2399 is an awesome chip however, used by Dreadbox and other synth companies
My guess is they are using one in the B1
Inside this is indeed a PT2399. Good call out!
@@JorbLovesGear The pt2399 is great, used it in alot (and i mean alot) of diy projects. Its the delay that simon the magpie uses in his delay pedals (which i think are some of the best delay pedals based on the chip)
@@floppydisk921 I fell in love with the pt, it was my first delay, The Monotrom. I use the off the shelf PCB and hack it, a lot. I have the Yellow Fall, I didn't realise it was a PT, as I haven't explored it that much. I thought it was similar delay to the Behringer Vintage Delay. I'm going to dig it out and have a play.
Listening to this in nice phones and I am hearing what sounds like compression artifacts or bit crushing on the audio of the synth, I can't tell if that is from youtube compression or if that's what the sound coming out of the synth actually sounds like. From what I can hear, the same artifacts don't exist on the voiceover...Maybe I am crazy but its nota sound I have noticed in YT synth demos before
I mention this in the description, I think its my fault in mixing audio during editing
@@JorbLovesGear Ah, well it's good to hear that the synth doesn't sound like that IRL. My initial reaction was "I guess you get what you pay for" 😅
Is the TR08 new to you? I'd love more drum machine content!
It's been with me a while, a gift from a viewer actually!
Hey Jorb, love everything you do but it seems throughout this video your voice mic is active the entire time without any gate and this is the cause of quite a bit of digital background noise? Got a sort of mp3-like quality to it and doesn't seem to be in other recordings from the Donner B1. A 303 derivative is usually noisy, but not like this. Just wanted to point this out.
Fantastic video anyway! It seems your unit can get a little more resonant than my TD3 but I'm pretty sure they also really did clone the exact circuit (with maybe some modern component substitutions). There might be trimmers for the feedback gain and for the cutoff range, or it might just be subject to unit variation.
I'd say Fatboy Slim was right and everybody needs a 303. So why not another :)
I mention in the description, I think that's CZcams compression from my mistake.
Thanks for the rest!
@@JorbLovesGear ah so sorry I missed that! If you don't mind me asking, what format do you upload in? the opus-251 (160kbit, 48kHz) youtube delivers to users is quite good, but if you use a different lossy codec to upload there may be some transcoding issues. CZcams SUGGEST AAC >=128k on MPEG4 video uploads, but I'm not sure whether it will accept MP4s with ALS or FLAC instead.
Thank you for your videos!
KORG MONOLOGUE!!!!
Can you control all of the parameters via midi cc? There’s no manual on their website
i dont believe so!
@@JorbLovesGear :-( at this price point I wouldn’t expect it to
What is that green light that is activated by sound?
czcams.com/video/ghfMBVU_6tQ/video.html
Hi! New guy question! I picked this up thinking I could just plug into my computer and use garage band. What do I need to use this? Thanks!
Also, new to your channel. Is your channel name a coach z reference?
I can do that, I actually don't know for sure if it has usb audio.
I don't work with a daw at all, but the B1 will send out audio, and you control it with midi, look into those with your specific daw
303-style boxes just need to be reality-checked when it comes to price. $170 seems like a logical, reasonable cost for the limitation. haha and I LOVE my 303. That definitely has a cool look and the switches are a nice touch. Edit to add a Zvex Fuzz Factory or Boss Metal Zone make some of the best distortion companions for a 303 to my ears
Try the Boss HM-2 (Heavy Metal), it's notorious for its buzzsaw-sound.
@@GrevDrake HM-2 is ok but nothing is going to compete with the fuzz factory
@@sauce_aux I'll have to give that one a try
@@GrevDrake this is my opinion, mind you hahaha but I haven’t gone back to any other distortion after I built a DIY kit from Tayda. Right now I’m using silicone transistors, but I installed sockets, so you can swap out components for different clipping and feedback styles. They have all the info on the site! Best wishes in your journey!
There is only one question left: Which of the 303 derivatives presented at the beginning is the best in the categories:
1. sound
2. handling
3. features
4. appearance
We need three hundred and three 303s.
It seems it's MUCH easier to use than the TB-303 / TD-3
Jorb! You shaved right before beard season!
It'll be back in no time 😂😂
Oh, this distortion sounds better than the Behringer one, and the delay is nice. So already there, yeah, this is promising. No, I'm not gonna sell my Behringer one, because you get only peanuts for them. :-) I think I'm gonna franken-mod it instead.
I modded 2 and sold um for more, lot to discover inside.
170 is on par with the behringer clone. i might get one.
Were you able to confirm analog delay? That would be pretty unique.
Pt2399! A good chip, but digital sampling
@@JorbLovesGear I kind of realized half-way through the demo it did not matter. Sounds good, that's what it is!
Seems much easier to program than Behringer which uses the original 303 UI
Don't be put off by the original sequencer, it's what helped make the 303 sound so popular in the first place. Takes about 5 minutes to learn and then it's endless expoloration and happy accidents.
If you don't manage to program a 303, you should probably not use any hardware devices at all.
This is one of the simplest functions of any of my hardware devices.
So simple and ingenious at the same time!
Greetings from Germany
It's very easy to do the 303 bassline sounds in My DAW..
@@HOLLASOUNDS - yes it’s really easy, but doesn’t compare to the real thing where you never know exactly what you’re going to get 😉
@@leftmono1016 Actually for Me its exactly like that as the software I use Reason emulates real hardware and My jams from 15 years ago sound exactly the same as Dawless jams I hear right now, identical. Infact I used the 303 bassline sound extensively on a wide range of music without actually thinking about making a 303 sound it just come out like that. All I need to make the 303 bassline sound is two of Reasons oldest 20 year old devices called Subtractor synthesizer on a black patch and matrix step sequencer, literally is identical to 303 bassline sound.
Dont forget that MAM one
What I would love is a good video on how to make any subtractive synth approximate a 303. Because everyone needs a 303…. Without buying one.
Or use the code JORB and get this one. ✌️
It's the slide that's tricky to emulate on another synth. I had an MC-202 and my brother had an SH-101, both much more capable in synthesis terms than the 303 and easy to get acid sounds from, but neither could do the slide on individual notes in a sequence.
You can make a Korg Monologue sound like one by doing some tricks with the built in sequencer...but when you play those notes on their own it won't sound like a 303.....it's too much work to emulate and 303 clones are a dime or dozen, so just best to pick one up.
you can pick up a used behringer td3 gen 1 for £50 these days.