“The debate now is where does he stand against Maradona & Pele” - Tim Vickery on Messi vs Ronaldo
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- čas přidán 14. 12. 2022
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Tim Vickery shares the view from South America on the Lionel Messi vs Cristiano Ronaldo debate and discusses how Messi compares to Maradona in Argentina.
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There will always be a debate, and never a resolution, but Pele, Maradona and Messi are in a different league, they all are equally beautiful to watch different times, they 3 will always be the GOATS of football.
Pele & Maradona are emotions but Messi is reality.....Pep Guardiola
Pele played in the dark ages against semi professionals.
We cannot forget R9 who in his prime was on the same level
@@patcisz3474 No world cup, no debate
I dont care who is the Greatest beween Pele, Maradona and Messi. (Actually, I'm Argentina fans since 1994) My worry is Messi is going to retire soon. 🥲Can we accept that?
How can you not love Tim Vickery? Very sleek and likeable.
Extremely well versed, terrifically spoken and informative
Lefty tosser unfortunately
The beauty of Messi's footballing artistry lies not in the number of goals he scores but the way he plays the game. People who vouch about "the other guy" being better always lead their arguments with the number of goals and little else
Ronaldo has all components of a elite player that's why he is the GOAT
He had dribbling, speed , finishing with both feet and one of the best if not the best in the world with his head. Messi can't do what Ronaldo does while Ronaldo can do everything Messi did.. show me Messi goals from 40m distance with his weak foot...
@@vascobranco6780 ronaldo cannot dribble the whole team from the 50 yard line, messi cannot have the most assits becaus messi does, while messi has completed the most dribbles of all time since the stats were being collected. both at 1000 games, messi has more goals,assists,ballond dors, golden boots, more trophies, so how is he better??
@@YuquVaL ok fanboy now is the time there I leave.. Messi most goals? He doesn't even have more assists in UCL. Also Messi died for European football at club level since Neymar left Barça and that's facts !! Also you clearly Haven't watch young Ronaldo check how many goals he scored dribbling from his own field..
Also Ronaldo is almost 38 now !.. Ronaldo with 35+ got 122g/a in 131 games you idiot.. check your facts first
@@vascobranco6780 what an argument 👏 😂😂😂😂
The only debate is who’ll be second behind Messi
Jack Grealish
An injured Messi
Messi’s right foot
CR7 will always be the 🐐 watch football not highlights kid…
@@joetyler7638 fool
Best passer, best dribbler, best goal scorer. Messi 🐐
Hes not the best goalscorer this is nonsense....its CR7. The real 🐐 the champions league 🐐... but in the end its really down to preference as many have stated.. I agree with that. And take absolutely nothing from messi definitely in my top 3.. but the greatest is cr7. Messi was born great with God given talent...while CR7 BECAME GREAT.. to be the greatest you have to BECOME THE GREATEST. THIS IS CR7 IN MY OPINION....LIKE A GOOD MAJORITY..I think its official that messis fans are the minority. No harm done just saying.
@@Daddy-d-xk5ic Messi: Most goal per min, goal ratio, goals per game, most goals in a season (73), most goals in a Year(91), most Golden Boots ever(6). 😭😭😭😭😭 casual fan
@@Daddy-d-xk5ic how dumb are you ??
Messi to Ronaldo looks like a joke argument for some time because when someone come with argument it sounds so tupid for a football fan who watch 90 minute. But Pele and Maradona,, different time , different era. It's difficult.
@@Daddy-d-xk5ic messi have better goal ratio..less miss opportunity..better shoot on target state.. messi defeat cristiano in everything :)
Man I love listening to Tim the football knowledge he has and all the gear insights he gives, amazing!
Messi is the greatest of all time. No discussion.
100% he’s done it for like 18 years maradonna done it for 3/4 seasons max
@@mr-ov5gt 😂
@@mr-ov5gt troll
@@mr-ov5gt Mbappe is a cheap rip-off of Ronaldo Nazario. People watching game for a while would know this only. He is just a farmer outside France world class team. Never got the ability to win a tournament on his own. Maybe few games in a tournament he can effect but that's that.
They're literally having a discussion on it now lol
Messi is the best I've seen but I never quite understood why so many people leave out R9 in the GOAT debate.
Because injuries robbed him of what could have been
Longevity
@@twomangame4170 As well as his illness
How can Messi be the best when he is just one of the many clones of the late Maradona? Saviola, Aguero, Pablo Aimar, Ortega, Riquelme, Tevez and many more came after Maradona and before Messi.. all same profile, stout and left legged and came after Maradona... dont tell me its a coincidence..
@@yusufbest4475 Are you implying that they chose to be stout and left legged? Lol
I’m Argentine, and he was very accurate on the things he said related to Argentina. You can see this guy knows. On the relationship between Messi and Argentina, you also need to take into account that he and all the other players of the national team were carrying a huge amount of pressure after so many years without Argentina winning a tournament; that pressure was an awful handicap for so many really good Argentine national teams over the years, and that’s why everything seemed to change after winning the Copa America. It wasn’t their fault, but the pressure was there. It was a vocal minority that didn’t like Messi here anyway, and I could never understood it; the only real explanation I have after all is ignorance.
Tim Vickery has been living in Brazil for a very long time and is an expert on South American football. Football is a game of very fine margins. Messi came very close to losing the final, what if Muani had scored? What if Higuain and himself scored those great opportunities in the 2014 final? What if they won those two penalty shootouts against Chile? Would they make Messi a better/lesser player. In my opinion, no.
As a Ronaldo fan im going true a Tough time but all the respect to Messi whould be a great achievement for Messi to win his worldcup he is playing realy good this wc
So hard to say he's better ennit
U can be a Ronaldo fan but don't say he is better than Messi
@@zidaneakbar7209 both great
Lol not a true Ronaldo fan
For sure you can have respect for Messi greatness as been the best nr 2 argentinian. But no Ronaldo fan wants Messi to win
@taral - how many UCL Messi won playing in the best team?
That goal against Mexico was brilliant and so important and I'm not sure you'll find many if any goal celebrated with more passion in the history of the game
I like the way he added Ronaldo in the conversation like we wouldn't notice
No one with a decent understanding of football would exclude cristiano Ronaldo from the goat debate.
As an Argentine, I am grateful to this person’s general insight about my country. Very smart and specific. Best regards
The funny this is that Messi is closer to Pele and Maradonna than Ronaldo is closer to Messi…
I think now, yes it does seem so.
@@Ash-rx5wl It always seemed so unless u were a RM fan. Every media used to say "hey the two goats Messi and Ronaldo" but nobody even dared to think about comparing Ronaldo to Maradona. Never. It sounded ridiculous to even ask it as a question. Everybody compared Messi to Maradona since Messi's debut tho, cause deep down everybody knew it; Ronaldo was never even remotely comparable to Messi. Only reason more ppl see it now is because Perez is no longer paying for Ronaldo's image
@@JohnDoe-dn9ez No no I was a Messi fan, I'm saying because the Ronaldo fanboys would always come up with silly numbers to counter the claim
@@Ash-rx5wl silly numbers? what silly numbers?
@@samuellolango9720 I see that the comment section here is loaded with Argentinians. Irrational ones at that.
If messi wins the world cup on Sunday then this debate has officially been put to bed
What if Mbappe wins 2 World Cup and many more trophies in the near future?
@@mohammadhabibullah6106 It's the footballing ability that's the source of Leo's greatness and not his trophies. Mbappe will never be anywhere near Messi no matter how much he wins because he is just a pacey winger who can shoot with power and is blessed with an absolute monster of a national team.
@@naazahs9045 if you look at the comments you’ll see Mujeeb talking about if Messi win World Cup. Mbappe already won one and have opportunity to win more.
Leo is one of the best but disrespectful towards other player from Messi fan is unreal. Leo also played in great team both Barcelona and Argentina.
Only time will tell.
There was never a debate lol
@@mohammadhabibullah6106 Fans always get emotional when it comes to their favourite player, sometimes rightly so and sometimes not. Whether the world cup is won or lost wouldn't change the fact that Messi is the greatest football talent alive and probably the greatest ever, and as I've said before Mbappe can win whatever he wins, in terms of footballing ability and skill he'll never come anywhere near Messi, ever.
The true debate won't really take place until these players hang up their boots. The greatest of all-time is not something to be discussed in the heat of the moment when we're mesmerized by these players' feats or when we're disappointed by their bad runs.
All you'll get in the heat of the moment are emotional takes of people who are prisoners to the moment. It's like interviewing fans outside the stadium after a game.
Exactly what I think.
I always think people will eventually rate Messi way higher than Ronaldo 5 years after their retirement.
@@saviobenitez4710 It doesn't matter what only u think,,,,what matters is what MESSI's impact on football is!!?? How MESSI made football like cutting through a grass!??? This is not about being a flash in a pan, momentarily supporter fueled with nostalgia or whatever,,,,This is about viewing what he has done and how he's done and how he does it.
@@saviobenitez4710 in 20 years people will look back and be gobsmacked how ronaldo was even compared to messi, messi is on such another level.
@@mr-ov5gt not if he carries on at this rate, he’s nearly 24 and has no UCL’s, no Euros, no balondors, no meaningful
league titles or cups, all he has is 1 world
cup and if he loses Sunday messi also
has world cup and will have 8 balondors before mbappe even has 1, he has a long way to go to get in the top 10.
@@saviobenitez4710 I don't believe that is going to be case myself, because talent gaps are something that will be lost to time and people in the future will focus more on their achievements rather than who was the better player. After all, the greatest player isn't necessarily always the best player.
Who cares? It's a matter of opinion that doesn't change anything about the players or the sport. In my opinion, Pele is the GOAT: he has 3 World Cups, scored 92 hat-tricks, and get this, he can even play as a goalkeeper due to his high jump, and was the reserve GK for both Santos & Brazil before substitutions were introduced in the game. Basically, Pele had no weakness.
lol
Messi doesn't need 'the flaws and vulnerabilities of Maradona' because he lets his game do all the talking. With due respect to Diego 👏👏
The debate should be is Tim the best pundit of his generation
Just because he fanboyed messi, you've decided that?
Sorry Maradona, with or without world cup, Messi is the greatest of all time. The rest follows after the fantastic duo.
Nah. Messi chokes when he’s not in a Barca shirt
Everyone is afraid to say it. I am reluctant as well but if he wins it on Sunday then hands down he is the GOAT . The truth is without the world cup people will find justifications.
best interview i've seen on this channel. great stuff
Lol they will drag this out for so long just so that they dont want to admit that he is the best out there. 🤦
Messi has more assists than goals. And boy has he scored goals.
No he doesn’t. He has way more goals than assists overall
And assists aren't as important as goals. Goals win you games, goals win you tournaments, goals win you titles. Assists don't. Cr7 is the best goalscorer, he has passed the milestone of 800 which no one else has done. Cr7 is the 🐐
Thanks Piers Morgan
Ps Messi is 28 goals behind and 3.5 years younger
Regards
I don't understand why Messi is debate with others?? Messi is doing impossible things the others doing possible things please stop Messi debate with others
Can messi win 3 world cups like pele
Firstly stop fanboying messi. The meat riding is blinding you. In reality, messi is equal to cr7, pele and Maradona. They are the 4 goats
The fact he has brought an average Argentina team to a record of 6 international cup finals btw now. As thier are plenty of teams with better individual players than Argentina but this Argentina team is a real team that plays well together, and that's a huge difference to other teams who may have more star players than Argentina but don't play as a team like Argentina.
Average 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Fact
@@mi_mo_sa9007 most of those Years only standout players were di Maria, aguero and mascherano. Dybala never hit the ground running. So yes average. Compare this squad to Portugal with Ruben Dias, Cancelo, Bruno, Joao Felix,
This team today from ARG is not average in any way. This is their best ever alongside their '94 team. There are teams today with better INDIVIDUALS than ARG has, but not on the whole. They have the best close control, marking, ball winning and team positioning of any other in this tournament.
The win of Brazil this year has to do with the triumph and resiliency of its democratic institutions. Can't have it all. Well done, Brazil 🇧🇷. Fair winds and three cheers for the most legendary multiracial democracy of South America.
I'm always gonna say this and won't stop saying this. You cannot compare players from different generations, completely different styles of football between generations which would completely change players. This generation though Messi is the best, slightly ahead of Ronaldo as Messi is good with everything
He is better than Ronaldo by a mile. Be serious at least for once.
@@abdulsudaisy where in this statement was I not serious. Although I favour Messi by a mile I have to say that Ronaldo is mad good also. You are the one who is not serious by saying Ronaldo is a lot worse than messi
@@zuesnastrio3062 i am not even a Messi fan. But as a football fan it’s clear that Messi is far better than Ronaldo.
@@abdulsudaisy Recency bias is a dangerous thing. Wise up before it catches on with your own life ;)
@@trentarnold2670 Cognitive bias of rosy retrospection is a psychological disorder. Better see your psychiatrist.
Been lucky to see messi in the flesh a few times at camp nou and for me he is the GOAT
It's important where you are playing and what's the history of play of that nation. Argentina and Brazil along some European giants had been favourite so it's always high expectations when these teams play. Portugal history was very erratic before Ronaldo but since he came to scene, he brought some respect to it and that's where I count him the best of all. Even with him in his prime, Portugal was never favourite because of the team he used to have. The irony is when he had team, he was way old or may be at the wrong time of his career but we can't take away how long he came to bar with these talented players we call legends.
In this WC the Portugal squad was on paper much better than the Argentinian. Ronaldo was born in the golden age of Portugal, and they have never been better on paper than they are today
@@edwinkarlsson4016exactly
@@edwinkarlsson4016he’s a ronaldo meatrider
There is flaw in his logic
It's difficult to compare eras as there are too many variables to consider, however it's easier to judge the best player in the era you were born in. It's also unfair to judge someone you see play week-in, week-out against someone else whose best moments are summed up in highlight reels.
The only sensible comment I have read so far the question is would messi and Ronaldo be this successful had they played in the times of Pele and maradonna pitches were different fowling a player was a non issue balls were heavier etc
@@vasiewelman1726 What would have stopped them?With their talents they would have definitely adapted to the time.Though the level of athleticism in terms of physical fitness n technicalities were rather mediocre then compared to todays modern game in all due respect.Someone would argue like that but thats the reality n for messi n cr7 to have been that dominant in such an era consistently for almost 2 decades u cannot take that away from them rather than just respect them for that.
But you can judge career longevity
@@BabsW you can however variables contribute to that like advancement in medicine, technology & fitness etc. For example when you done your ACL back in the day your career was pretty much done. Nowadays you can be back as quick as 6 months
THIS COMMENT IS THE BEST I'VE SEEN
The debate now is...? Nothing has changed ! ..
What Maradona did in the 86 and 90 world cup would never be eclipsed, taking a pretty average team to the world cup finals, and winning the scuedetto with Napoli where team from the south never won in one of the toughest leagues at the time . Safe to say had he been playing with these pitches and player protection he would be untouchable on the football field.
Demystifying the myth of Maradona lead an average squad
Previous World Cup Winners in Argentina 1986
+>>> 1986 Argentina Squad - Daniel Passarella (1)
Champions League/Copa Libertadores winners in Argentina 1986
+>>> 1986 Argentina Squad - Ricardo Bochini (4), Oscar Ruggeri (2), Nestor Clausen (1), Nery Pumpido (1), Ricardo Giusti (1), Hector Enrique (1), Jorge Burruchaga (1), Sergio Batista (1), Claudio Borghi (1), Hector Zelada (1)
Club World Cup/Intercontinental Cup winners in Argentina 1986
+>>> 1986 Argentina Squad - Ricardo Bochini (2), Oscar Ruggeri (1), Nestor Clausen (1), Nery Pumpido (1), Ricadrdo Giusti (1), Hector Enrique (1), Jorge Burruchaga (1)
+> Maradona never won Champions League/Copa Libertadores or Club World Cup/Intercontinental Cup in his career despite playing for Greatest European/South American Teams like Barca and Boca Juniors but most of his Argentine Teammates won it.
+> Pele won the 3 Club World Cups/Intercontinental Cups, 2 Champions League/Copa Libertadores and 7 League Titles with Santos, and Pele won it for the first time in Club's History.
@@AFreaks Just watch the highlights of the 1990 round of 16 match against Brazil. You'll see how good rest of the Argentina squad was and how Maradona dragged them to the final.
@@sahilbhardwaj3907 Dragged ? Pele dragged Brazilian League players to 3 World Cup Medals.
@@AFreaks By your logic it is probably fair to say that pele had better players around him. Pele played at a time when there was less professionalism in football, that explains why he has about 1000 goals(Don't know how many friendlies included). Maradona played in one of the most physical eras and when professional football had just started.
@@sahilbhardwaj3907 Maradona is just a one month Performer, he is not in the debate.
I remember the first time I heard about Messi. It was from ballague talking about this young fella coming through at barcelona. He said it in a way that I took real notice. He said something like this really special guy coming through. But he emphasised really a few times like "no I mean really , I mean really , I mean really special". Something along those lines. And he was so right
Just enjoy the game simple, doesn't matter who is better they are all individual legends
When I think of complete player I think of someone who can do it all. Messi can score, assist, dribble, create chances, etc. He creates something out of nothing. Ronaldo was similar to this up until about 2014/2015. He switched to a poacher from here as he realized he could not dribble as he once did. He relied on his teammates to do something for him so he could score, while Messi would still have to take on a few guys and play make with a dead Barcelona. Without him, they cannot qualify for the champions league. Without Ronaldo, they can still win the champions league because now Benzema could actually play his role. Benzema played a secondary role at Madrid to accommodate for Ronaldo. Oftentimes we would see Ronaldo play as more of a striker role while Benzema would drift wide at times starting around 2014/2015. While goals are important, there’s more to being the best than just scoring goals. Ronaldo can be hailed as the best goal scorer ever for now, but if Messi chooses to extend his career by 2 more years, I have no doubts he’ll surpass Ronaldo even in the goal department. To be the best in not just one department, but multiple signifies that the individual is an all round player, and that’s what Messi is. He has the most assists in the history of the game and will soon have the most goals. Ronaldo is far off from reaching Messi’s assists. The truth is Messi will always be more impactful and influential because of his creative goal scoring role.
No. Cr7 also has more to the game than scoring goals. People won't talk about that.
Goals - cr7
Assists - messi
Shooting - cr7
Dribbling - messi
Pace - cr7
Passing - messi
Physical - cr7
Vision - messi
Headers - cr7
Free kicks - messi
Penalties - cr7
Ballon dors - messi
UCL - cr7
WC - messi
They are both equal, cr7 and messi are both the GOATs.
In my opinion Ronaldo is better than Messi because Ronaldo has conquered THREE different leagues while Messi has conquered only one. It's much harder to settle into different leagues AND conquer them. Ronaldo can fit in any team, while messi fits in a Pep-style team.
@@vlsui66lol what you mean conquered? he played in one of the best Manu teams of all time, real madrid was and is always one of the best teams in league and ucl as you can clearly see now that they won ucl and league without him and juve was champion for like a decade as he joined so what exactly did he conquer?
Those who speak otherwise also know deep inside their mind that Messi is the joy to behold. Since he was born, he was destied to be the GOAT. From day one the kid remains same! You van watch him playing hours after hours and you will still feel you want more.
i understand your point but messi is failure outside barcelona, Messi is amazing but with the psg he failed in the worst possible way he didnt score or made an assist in the knockdown of champions league in the last 2 years, instead cr7 prove to everybody that he can play in different system, Messi scored 6 goal in the first year in uber eats ligue one
Why do all kids see the current performance and decide who’s the best😂😂. Like u haven’t even watched the prime of both of them
Maradona is the greatest,for a man to take the ball from half field and dribble his way pass the english defenders and score,that sealed his faith
I see Tim Vickery, I click
Messi is the best ever period
There is no debate
Messi is the greatest ever bar none
He's been entertaining billions for 18 years no other player has done that
He doesn't need the world cup to prove he's the best
If he was English they would already have him down as the greatest
Guy is a genius
"No other player has been entertaining billions for 18 years" what the hell? Stop with your childish fanboying. Pele, Maradona, cr7 have been entertaining for 18 years as well. It's just you haven't watched them play, you've only watched messi play.
Kmt pele is the greatest the king the goat 17 years old winning a world cup plus two more etc
Why does there have to be a greatest of all time? Can't we just agree that great players are unique?
Exactly
Ronaldo is finished years ago Messi the preasure on him and that goal against 🇲🇽 was amazed the only place he could put it and in this playmaker role he's been incredible I never seen Maradona play in 86 I was 4 but this reminds me of it what a individual performance he's having no doubt player of the tournament please God he wins it as a 🇮🇪 man I hate the French over Henry handball
Ronaldo is not finished years ago. What are you talking about? What was Ronaldo doing at 35 yrs of age(Messi's current age). What was Ronaldo doing at Man UTD last season at 37 yrs old in the #1 league in the world in an awful Man UTD team? Messi and his fans owe Erik Ten hag the world. You think Messi would be doing what he is doing now had PSG coach decided to bench him for the season? Ronaldo was named player of. the year and then the club treats him like crap? It made no sense. There was an agenda involved.
Finished Ronaldo scored 24 goals for Manchester United...
This season has been tough for him, but he is at the tail end of 37. At that age you start losing a lot of it.
@@EthanCruise penaldo fanboys so cute.. kid, before penaldo, United finished above Liverpool and reached a el final. Penaldo drag United from the cl to Europa league for stat padding. There is a reason no one wants penaldo.. mark my words, United will finish in top 4 without the tap in merchant
@@madtitan-bringerofgenocide I’m going to mark your words, clown. United finished 2nd during the covid year, when Liverpool and Chelsea were hit with a lot of injuries. What have they done in the last 8 years nothing. If not for Ronaldo they would have been relegated. There defense sucked last year. Ronaldo would score and they would give it up. So don’t talk B.S. to someone who knows what happened. What are you Argentinian?
"Ronaldo is finished years ago" how pathetic. I'm not surprised, you're another messi meat rider
Tim is right however it is really where does Messi stand against Pele
Deigo Maradona was a genius in how he carried his team along with him as well as how he played his game, Maradona is so huge and great is because of his image in the eyes of the world, his very presence was overpowering to every single opposite team. Lionel Messi is a born genius, just brilliant beyond words, he is quiet, dignified, inspires his team thst they give their best just looking at him play. In my book it's Messi first, Maradona second, Ronaldo third, Pele fourth on all time list.
I would agree with ur assessment, though if he loss the World Cup that might change
Ronaldo de Lima that is, not Cristiano, Cristiano a goal scoring machine is mostly top 10, not top 4
.
1. Maradona because of how he touched ppl emotionally, the game is emotional so the best emotional football artist should be the GOAT
2. Messi
3. Pele
4. Ronaldo o fenomena
5. Zidane
6. Ronaldo 7
7. Cruyff
8. Backenbaur
9. Eusebio
10. Di steffano
@@mrsix344 I agree with most of what you said except Christiano Ronaldo, he is 3 best and Brazilian Ronaldo you can place 9 or 10, anyway we all have our choices to each his own
Definitely agree with the top 2
go to grammar school...........THREE WORLD CUPS ARE BETTER THAN ONE IDIOT.....
Sorry Ronaldo fans, Messi is far clear of CR7. CR7's world cup record is shocking. Zero goals or assists in world cup knockout games over a 20 year period. He cannot be considered the goat, no way.
Messi before this World Cup had zero goals too, and has one from open play. If the roles were reversed we wouldn’t the hear the end of it with all of the “Penaldo” “he only scores against farmers” talk
@@mohart4641 You clearly said 'before this World Cup"... now, he has those knockout goals. Messi > Ronaldo
@@andresec680 You’re a clown. What a penalty that shouldn’t have been? Messi playing on a team thats been to a World Cup final in 2014 and 2 copa america finals and he ghosted. Ronaldo never had that kind of opportunity. Messi vomiting before big games. But I wonder what Maradona meant when he said I wish that Ronaldo was born Argentinian. Was it because Ronaldo was more like him, a winner. And as Maradona said to Pele, Messi has no personality and is not a leader.
@@jcbones3098 Clearly can see what kind of CR7 fan boy you are... Whose a clown? Show respect first you dumbass. I wasn't even talking to you. Just realise who we are talking about at this final stage of the World Cup - not Ronaldo - Messi. Messi carrying his own country to 2 World Cup finals and what about Ronaldo?
@@andresec680 oh did I hurt your feelings "dumbass" clown. The truth can cut like a knife. Go back under the rock you came from.
These people dont know how to even hold a proper debate. One man is 37 and cant defy age and time, the other is 35 and getting there. I have a feeling Messi wont be playing at 37 to avoid the age and time downfall. Ive never see a Portuguese team better than an Argentine team. If you're on a team where they all feed the ball to you its easier to perform than a team where they struggle to get the ball to the box. I Say CR7 is better because the things he had done. Its not just oh he scored or dribble, its how he did it. Nobody else did it like him. With Messi, we've seen pretty similar things from other players 🤷🏾♂️
Huh?? Literally this Portugal has much better squad depth then Argentina. Not to mention Messi is literally the one scoring more and assisting at the age of 35. Messi has done things nobody else has, as well as Ronaldo.
I think it's just a matter of preference in the end. It won't surprise me that even if Messi wins the World Cup, some people would still prefer Ronaldo as the GOAT.
But if Messi wins the World Cup on Sunday, he will have achieved *GOD* status in the game.
Ronaldo ain't even in the debate he's never been to a wc final ever
@@mr-ov5gt When Messi was 22, he won the Ballon d'Or. When Mbappe was 22, Messi won the Ballon d'Or. Mbappe is great, but he has to continue like this and better for the next 10+ years to be in the GOAT debate.
More so for Argentina. He’s already a football god.
Based off of all stats per game. Messi is the best player to have played the game. Literally no debate. Just remove all bias. My favorite player is Marco Reus.
Blasphemous fool
Unfortunately France will probably comfortably beat Argentina and this will all end in tears.
Ok if that makes u happy 😂
I agree. Wish it will be different but France is too strong.
The day people understand the difference between Best and Greatest, they will stop with the debate.
This title is super misleading
Don’t ever mention Ronaldo name next to messi name messi is the goat ❤🐐
Oh what will you do if we mention cr7s name? Will you cry? Stop with your pathetic fanboying, messi is equal with cr7 and they are both the GOATs
@@vlsui66 where’s your World Cup Penaldo fan boy 😂
1- Diego .
2- Messi .
3- Ronaldo Nazario .
4- Zinedine Zidane .
5- Ronaldinho .
6- Cristiano Ronaldo .
7_ Pele .
Messi is just a joy
I´m all on Maradona. If he wins it on sunday he gonna be in the same catergory as Pele and Maradona.
He's greater than them both. The fact is this.... If Messi had a season where he put up the kind of numbers that Maradona did in his BEST season, people would be saying Messi is finished! There is literally no comparison with Messi and Maradona. Messi is the greatest player to ever kick a ball. Again, it's only debatable because of the aura of Maradona's memory.
@@f3zzy728 it's not about numbers mate , I'm sick of millennials who have never seen great players other that ronaldo and Messi talking about stats all the time , it's about moments
@@f3zzy728 Nope and it never will be. Marodana played in a time there u could kicked and stomped like hell and he still made crazy magic goals. This era is soft and they are more protetcted. The problem is kids with tik tok are talking about a era they havent watched.
@@raxzarbut you could algo argue it’s more tactical now and harder to score
Never ever compare Ronaldo ; that Pogba-like player who can only shoot from long distance aimlessly to THE GOD of football. MESSI-Ronaldo rivalry is the most FORCED rivalry in football history. It was the media back in 2010 who orchestrated it just to get something to feed on for yrs to come. Ronaldo just stand and shoot aimlessly and leave it to lady luck to hit the back of the net....MESSI is a freak of nature ; his unworldly quick dribbling, alienated passing and vision, impeccable balance, creativity and genius-playmaking, magical goalscoring,,,A One-legged MESSI would still look down on ur CR7 metres below. His Fakeass stepovers and silly chops which only works in FIFA 23, which is why most hypnotized nuts probably drool over him with his body stature and hairstyle. Ronaldo is just the best of the humans,,,MESSI is a GOD.
Yeah this ain’t it at all
Yes! You are definitely correct. You really know what happens in a soccer field. Messi way better and a complete different player. Goat 🐐
Well your opinion is cute but fact is that messi isn't even the UCL GOAT.. no debate.....the greatest doesn't retire from international football only especially being the captain nor does he have the most missed penalties in my opinion.... if messi really was the greatest then the media wouldn't be trying To force the goat title on messi...and there wouldn't be so much hate for cr7.... cr7 has had the greatest individual carreer in history....dominates the worlds top leagues as top scorer and MVP... AND CHAMPION. With breaking many many records along the way.. ITS NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE IN HISTORY except by cr7....nonetheless take absolutely nothing from messi he was definitely the greatest player on the greatest team...(club).. but the greatest to play the game hands down cr7
@@Daddy-d-xk5ic You are wrong about the stats. Messis are superior and that, in over 140 less games. The greatest doesn't have to proclam their own greatness. Others do that for them... Only people who know they aren't have to vote for themselves..
The conversation is over....
@@AndyCampbellMusic Ronaldo doesn't need friendlies to pad his stats. Ronaldo also hasn't missed as many penalties as Messi. That is why Messi fans always bring up penalties because they know Messi sucks at them. Ronaldo has played in the top 3 leagues in the world. Messi has played in the French league(worst in Europe) on an all star team of riches. He gets to have fun most of. the season, the only real games for him are CL and he lost in round of 16. Now he will end up going to MLS. Had Ronaldo taken that route the media would crucify him. The media never gave Ronaldo any credit for going back to the EPL at his age. Imagine had Messi done that, they would be kissing his butt/. Messi has had the media in his favor, Ronaldo has never had it and yet has been able to put together one of the most decorated careers ever. Ronaldo is mentally tough.
Argentina 🇦🇷 wins when Messi gets mad. I want a mad Messi in the final. Love 💕 to Argentinean team from Buffalo New York USA 🇺🇸
To keep the debate, they are creating an other comparison, before it was messi vs cr7 wich means if messi beats cr7, he will be the best now it is messi vs maradona lol, we are not cruzy guys.
I am pro cr7 in my live and will be but what messi is doing is cruzy and he is very intellegent than cr7 because he knows how to control himself when he is in bad sitaution.
Ronaldo has more Instagram followers, jumps higher and is more handsome
🤣🤣🤣
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Talk football
Has more Champions league...
And has more Ballon D Or!
Maradona: criminal, drug dealer, connected mafioso, drug smuggler, drug abuser, WIFE abuser (twice arrested for that), never got along with any other players mostly, team mates coaches and clubs(other than Napoli kinda).
Messi: good man, charitable man, humain and compassion filled, good family man, good catholic, good friend with everyone!!!! Gets along easy and has been MESSSIII for 20 years, how long maradona was in top, 10 tops!
Maradona played against taxi cab drivers that had to foul to stop, Messi played against the best defenders of all time tall strong and professional athletes!
PS. Maradona bad mouthed and talked extremely negatively about Messi multiple times, and yes the fact that he played in spain for a long time had Argentinians thinking twice about him.
Messi is GOAT!!!
Tim really know football
The competition was always, Maradona. Ronaldo was great but let's be serious here
Has to be Messi!!!....look at his performance even in this WC...hope he wins this Sunday...he deserves it.
Let’s be honest it hasn’t been the toughest road to the final🤦🏽♂️🤦🏽♂️
@@bigmade7739cry
@@pollos1 Lool not if Mbappe has something to say about it! This is literally Argentinas only tough fixture can’t wait (:
@@bigmade7739 france got strong team but de paul, mac allister, alvarez, emi martinez, otamendi and messi
@@pollos1 all I’m saying is this is the only tough fixture they had so far all World Cup!
Pele is the best I've seen in my time absolutely faultless with no weakness,the perfect footballer.modern players can't be compared because they play a non contact style of game which makes it easier for better players to shine.
Contact was worse in Maradona's day, and Maradona played in the most physical era of the dirtiest league ever in Italy. Maradona took a cash-poor mid-table team from Italy and took them to the top of Italy and Europe. Pele played on teams that didn't need him to win any of the leagues and tournaments they won. ARG in '86 and '90 were good, not great.
Even if Argentina lose Messi will still be the greatest of all time
Yes!
Tim Vickery is a LEGEND!!👏 👏
You've decided that just because he's fanboyed messi?
@@vlsui66 I have not seen any pundits praising ronaldo anymore. Anyone who understands football knows the truth.
They all great player but I give Messi the edge over Pele if he does win the world cup 🏆🙏😉
Messi is the greatest. Two world cup finals. Even though he might not win against France he has done more than even the greatest of soccer players
Nope
@@twomangame4170 .
@@benjaminedet4543And he has been in 6 international tournaments now also a record btw. 4 Copa America finals and won 1 and now two world cup finals.
And to be honest in terms of star players Argentina don't have many other than Messi, but this is the best Argentina side as a team I've seen in Messi's time playing for them.
Lets see who wins sunday. lol
He'll have to score a couple of goals without much help in a win on Sunday to do it to surpass Maradona. Which can happen.
The reason ARG handled CRO better than BRA is because ARG cut out all the field switches that bamboozled BRA. ARG defended the backside of play. With shorter players. That's a very easy post-mortem.
The actual list of international performances for COUNTRY!!!!
1) Messi
- U 20 Fifa WC champion, top scorer and best player
- Olympic Gold
- Fifa wc 2014 (runner up )
- Copa America (winner)
- Finelissima - beating the reigning European champs (Winner)
- Fifa World Champion 2022 (Winner)
Individual awards:
- U20 WC 2005: Golden Shoe (top scorer), Golden Ball (best player)
- FIFA WC 2014 - Golden ball (best player)
- FIFA WC 2022 - Golden ball (best player)
- COPA AMERICA 2021 - Most goals, most assists
2) Cristiano:
- Euro 2016 (winner) but played only 15 minutes in final and was neither player of the tournament nor top scorer.
- Nations league (winner)
Individual awards:
- SHARED Golden Boot of Euro 2012, 2020 with MANY OTHERS.
Messi is the best to ever do it
Once he wins the WC.
What is amazes me is why Cristiano Ronaldo even in that list with Maradonna, and Messi. It's literally any prolific #9 can replace prime CR7 (elite #9 can be born every 3-5 years), but its hard to have / recreate technical skills of Maradonna and Messi (a player with prime Messi's skills can be born every 50-100 years). Even 21 yo Ramos (Portugal's #9) in this World Cup could overshine Ronaldo and capable to be head to head with prime Ronaldo.
Bro Ramos is 21 and Ronaldo is 37. Rather compare 21 ramos vs 21 ronaldo. 😂😂
Also how can you compare any prolific striker with ronaldo if ronaldo broke all records. And half the time played on the wing 😂🤣🤣
Ronaldo is one of the greats for sure
LOL, calm down. This title is insulting honestly, maradonna and pele do not even come close in my opinion. Messi is the greatest football player of all time. CR7 is the greatest goal-scorer of all time.
In case you didn’t know Footballers get older 😉
Any prolific #9 can replace the Ronaldo we say today not prime CR7
Then explain how ronaldo was in the uefa team of the year as midfield player... 5 years straight...and finally messi featured in 2010 as a forward only...this is nonsense that you people carry around to convince each other... no one else.. what ronaldo has done nobody has done in history......
That will decide on Sunday 18/12/22.
Pele is#1 soccer player in the world in my book
I'm Argentinian I'll admit I never seen Maradona live but for me the level at which Messi played at and for the duration of time is just so different, he's my goat 🐐
Cris has already dropped out of the debate, so it’s just about Messi, Maradona and Pele.
If Messi wins the WC with Argentina, he will definitely be on par with Maradona.
In terms of WC achievements, both Messi and Maradona will never surpass Pele. So it’s difficult to tell who is really the GOAT.
But for me, Maradona is still the best.
How can cris drop out of the debate if his career is not over yet? Just because Erik Ten Hag sabotaged his career does not mean he is finished. Wait and see what happens in the next few months. If it weren't for Ten hag, Ronaldo would still be way ahead in many stats. And had Ronaldo joined Man City instead of Man UTD, this debate would be all in favor of CR7 right now. Things change quickly, things look good for Messi now, but we don't know what is going to happen in the next 2 years.
CR7 could never be compared to pele or maradona....he simply lacks the talent , its funny people are only realizing this now ....its been like this since the beginning of Messi's career .
@@davebonilla4561 he's finished
Thumbs down for the maiden shade
Better than both of them. Look at the numbers. Have you watched him before?
He is undisputed the GOAT end of discussion even if he doesn't win the world cup the impact he had and the impact he has and impact he will leave is immense.
The debate between him and Ronaldo has been over for a while in my opinion but after this world cup it is 100% settled now. (regardless of what happens on Sunday)
Truthfully Messi has been the better player than Ronaldo because there is much more to his game than Ronaldo. Messi is simultaneously one of the best goalscorers and one of the best creative players of all time.He's like Romario and Michael Laudrup combined in one player.
Ronaldo has never been able to be the creative and goal scoring player for a significant period time, in his time at Man Utd he was a much more creative player but not an truly great goalscorer (apart from one season) and in his Real Madrid and Juventus years he was an incredible goalscorer but not a truly great creative player.
Both those players are incredible its comparing a lambo to a Ferrari
Messi the control the vision and that magic of a left foot. Ronaldo in those madrid days was unbelievable 468 goals in 450 goals. There really has never been a forward as prolific as ronaldo and for so so long. He just gets it done.
Personally to compare them in their prime is just a matter of taste
@@Mymindtellingmethe thing is though football is not all about scoring and that’s all Ronaldo is a goal scoring machine
@@josearellano3670 To say that Ronaldo is just a goal scoring machine is to ignore his entire career from his first days in Manchester United. The people who want to diminish Ronaldo pretend like the man was a #9 who would just sit in the box and score goals. What Ronaldo accomplished in his position is insane. People just want to ignore how great CR7 has been. He is the complete footballer. A player that could play on any team because he was not a player that relied on a certain system in order to perform. Now because of what happened with Ten Hag, people want to rewrite history and pretend like Ronaldo was just an ordinary #9 his entire career who just sits in the box and waits.
That’s always been the debate.
In the last few years it’s only been the Ronaldo fans that debate between the two… Messi fans have only ever thought about Maradona and Pele comparisons…
The greatest of all time is cr7 and Messi then it’s either Maradona or pele
I find this so funny.
I know that Messi is better than Ronaldo.
But the fact that it has taken the last 6 games to see that, after the 1000 they've already played, is hilarious.
Granted it's the world cup.
But this doesn't 'settle' anything. Argentina beat Holland and Croatia, lost to Saudi, and now 'the debate is over'?
Stop
What was the debate before? It took CR7 1000+ games to make it to have 10G/A in the world cup and you feel there's still a debate? The facts that people believe Messi still needs the world cup to proof is the best while CR7 doesn't need it to be called the GOAT is the most gullible sentiment I have ever seen. Remember his last world cup goal was against Ghana
@@bakaresegun4180 I find it funny how Ronaldo fans can accept Messi, but Messi fans can’t accept Ronaldo. I have a feeling that the majority of these Messi fans are Argentinian.
They are both literally above Pele and Maradona, the only thing those players have above Ronaldo and Messi is a world cup. It’s not either players responsibility for developing an entire country of players. Maradona and Pele were fortunate to have great national teams throughout their careers. Ronaldo and Messi didn’t have good national teams until now, and they are heading into their late 30s
I would just like to point out that Maradona's 1986 world cup winning squad was a bunch of squad players that were entirely devoted to doing the "dirty work" while everything creative was left to Maradona. 1986 Argentina were effectively an ultra-defensive team that relied entirely on Maradona's genius to score goals. Pele definitely had the best squads in those tournaments he won though.
Maradonna is way better. Only idiots will say otherwise
@@yes619 Way better because? For how long was he able to be great? How many individual accomplishments does he have compared to Ronaldo and Messi? How about records? Stats?
@@CriusXI can Messi take a low ranking team to championship the way maradonna did it with Napoli? Can Messi survive the record breaking performance and brutal tackles/fouls maradonna received in 86?
@@yes619 Ummm, yes? Do you watch football at all? He has done both of those things. Did you not witness the tackles he had to endure from Ramos and Pepe? Including other defenders throughout his career. Wtf are you on. Teams are much more stacked now than they ever were in Maradona’s era. And the fact that you had to result to tackles in order to find a reason why Maradona is better than Messi or Ronaldo is pathetic
Each generation people would always debate who is the best player but after the players retired they would knew how stupid the debate is
To judge these players we have to leave their trophies and awards aside, just look at their best plays complications and let that be the criteria for which to measure their greatness.
All due respect to CR7, he’s no where near figure of pèle and Maradona. Messi is clearly a more polished player than the 3
Maradona was a bum. A pathetic career: A solid thief who used his own hand to play the devil. Football was BS back then with BS defenders, his goal of the century is nothing but an overrated media polishing. Pele is great but come on, this guy is from the 50's where football wasn't even played properly. Messi is no better, he's a Barca servant fed by his fathers in midfield turning into the 'good boy' media product he is where everything he does now is overhyped. While you disrespect Cristiano Ronaldo like you have some kind of say. This man is the only man who, where you call a mere human like Messi your God, where he was running away with the Balon Dors but here comes a man emerging from the streets of Portugal where he dragged this little Argentine to a 5-5 equalizer. The later 2 was handed to Messi by his grandpas in the control room while Cristiano was robbed of the 2018 one. He is the man who stopped this crybaby from being considered a God. Don't be a worshiper. A sheep. Be an observer. So my friend, pipe down.
Ronaldo is better than pele and marodona clown
😂maradonna is a beast. Magic. Only idiots will say otherwise.
@@yes619 Also took enhancements
@@yes619 Maradona was a God
Cristiano Ronaldo is the most disrespected player ever .
4get their FIFA TEAM achievements...focus on their FIFA INDIVIDUAL achievments...bcos "WHO is greatest" is focus on the INDIVIDUAL achievements...
LM10's INDIVIDUAL FIFA achievements, speaks for itself...
To be fair. Messi did score the hand ball and the Maradona run through goal. I think it was against Getafe.
Maradona the best the emperor of football
I agree, this is no longer a debate between Renaldo and Messi. His performance at this World Cup has solidified him as the greatest footballer of all time.
Greatest of All Time is Pele. Won 3 world cups.
By your analogy Mario Gotze is better than Messi. Because he has won the world cup and Messi is yet to win one.
@@abdulsudaisy knew you would say that. Pele did things in the game that were incredible. Won his first world cup at 17, was in a Brazilian side that year after year beat the best in europe i.e benfica that had eusebio, intermilan as well. Teams that were the giants in those days. Not only winning the world cup back to back but was in a brazilian side that never lost a single game from qualifiers all the way to the final. He was immaculate. The star boy for brazil from his beginnings all the way to his retirement. He did more than inspire a nation, he was the first global superstar to light up the world. Sorry but its Pele.
@@abdulsudaisy Yes, Noone care about those clubs, We're not all Europeans, the only that count is World Cup
@@mr-ov5gt you are a joke 🤡
@@jokas6727 lols how many offside goals ? 😂😂🤡🤡
I never watched Pele or Diego, but if I look at the game starts I will say Messi nd CR7 are de best, For me is hard to choose I'm a CR7 fan but Messi is special there way he scores goals nd the way he makes dribbling looks easier but as for CR7 I like the way he has went out of his comfort zone , play in different league and still does it, dats not easy I have seen best players like Eden Hazard, Memphis Depay, Lukaku failing to settle nd reproduce their form in their new teams. Also giving de fact dat Ronald has payed as winger not a center forward but scored goals like a No.9 dats special too. For me Messi or CR7 I like them both, sorry I can't choose between them, for me is a question dat have two answers and both answer are correct it just depend on how you back urself.
Game stats are irrelevant for two reasons: Nobody could score like Messi and CR7 do today because of refereeing. Also, Neither Messi nor CR7 had teams as average as Maradona's ARG in '86 and '90. '94 was Maradona's best team, but you saw how that went. Even Romario and Dunga said that the '94 ARG team was the best in that tournament before Canggia broke his foot and Maradona got expelled.
Ronaldo played for years at Madrid as their center forward, and even as a wing there and ManU he was given freedom to dribble and drift in while the team shifted to the other side to clear out defenders in every match.
There's a great video of Vinnie Jones' highlights in an English first division match from the '90s. Take a look at it to understand why the game was so different then, and why no player ever scored 40 in a season. Studs up high tackles went unpunished all the time, as did elbows.
Well why south american from Argentina will say CR7 is goat!!!! laughable!!!
I hope France wins the world cup so giroud will finally get the goat recognition he deserves.
Football before Messi
All-time top scorer: Pele
The historical top scorer for national teams: Ali Daei
UEFA Champions League top scorer: Raul
The historic scorer of the Club World Cup: Delgado
The historical top scorer in the five major leagues: Gerd Mueller
Football after Messi:
All-time top scorer: Ronaldo
All-time top scorer for national teams: Ronaldo
UEFA Champions League top scorer: Ronaldo
The historical top scorer of the Club World Cup: Ronaldo
The historical top scorer of the five major leagues: Ronaldo
Create ur own happiness
Wanna hear about ballon dor golden shoe more trophy…….and many more so go back and cry like ur loser goat
@@roypen7319 I didn’t create these stats though 😅
Counting the same records twice mate, with different names. Lol.
Other than this l goes to messi..and the topscorer goals will be broken by messi since he is like about 25 goals behind ..so all these records will be broken..what wdym by historical top score of top 5 leagues.. he has more club goals would have been better wa to put it.. and even in goal numbers messi has been better
Messi media hype a total fix
Pele is the greatest to ever have played the game, Maradona next , followed by Messi. Practically Every trick and flick that you've seen was done by Pele first...plus the world cups he has won, 17 year old for his 1st one. Who says Messi will even win the world cup?
You couldn't be more wrong
@@stevenlobban8162 prove me wrong. Because I can show you evidence
@@KontryBoyz just to name a few tricks elastico, rabona, cruyff turn, all I am saying is you're statement was wildly inaccurate
Why do they even think Maradona was better, Messi did everything that Maradona could do, and Messi did more than what Maradona has ever done, he's the greatest assister, greatest dribbler, best finisher, i just don't understand the debate
Maradona could do way more than messi
Messi can never do what maradonna did. You must be young.
@@yes619 if Messi do what Maradona did in his best season during his time, if Messi replicate his best season, Messi would be called finished. Maradona best season there's no good stats, you guys watch games very poorly, no idea whatsoever, Messi will score 91 goals in a year, give 31 assist, has the highest completed dribbles, most chances created, most man of the match, best ratings, total dominance, and you'll still think Maradona is better, why? Because you don't understand the game, you only watch it, there's no difference between you and the Ronaldo fans.
Maradona could do things on the ball no one else can and dont forget if ronaldo and messi played in maradonas time they would have played max 5 years at peak before they would get injured in italy.
@@raxzar thank you. These Messi fan boys are completely clueless.