LED "Filament" Bulb
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- čas přidán 29. 04. 2014
- The exciting bit about LED bulbs right now is the huge variety of implementations. This bulb uses a filament which appears to be dozens of LEDs on a glass substrate which is then covered with phosphor. These may be chip-on-glass. See my blog for more details electronupdate.blogspot.ca/
I wanted to know if it flickered, and then you checked! Then I wanted to see what it'd be like to dim, and then you checked!!
LOVE the thoroughness! Thank you so much!!!! :)
Subzero Arctics the ability to dim isn't hampered by the led filaments themselves. Indeed, there are led filament bulbs that you can dim. At least Philips has them and they work nicely. I don't know, though, if they will flicker.
wow I never knew such a thing was possible I hope this technology gets the development behind it to become safe and cheap . nice work.
I currently have about 20 LED bulbs of various types. In the future I'm planning on opening a public museum (or displaying them in a museum collection) of all of my bulbs that visitors can walk through.
Very impressive, good job on the video.
Nice review! Im into steam punk so really glad that they making them like this!! looking forward to seeing some really bizarre designs as this technology takes off!!
Just bought a couple of 4W's off eBay. I'm quite amazed @ how bright they are! And I was surprised to find that mine seem to be dimmable (even though there was no mention of such). Testing w/ an X10 lamp module, they dim down to maybe 20% before they start flickering like yours did.
Madness832 Genuine AXP lights are dimmable and UL rated. Clones are not.
Awesome! Exciting, actually!
Great informative vid!
Would you be able to dim a led filament using a reverse phase dimmer or wouldn't that be possible either?
i like your review very detail and accurate
Really nice review.
On Chip construction is the future of a LED bulbs.
Terrific video of an intriguing product. It will be interesting to see how this type of product develops. Or is it just another flash in the pan???
Subscribing and sharing!
Mick Pedder here in Europe, I'm guessing this will replace those downright awful CFL bulbs in an instant. I just bought a pair (Airam was the brand) and light output, color rendering and the absence of flickering makes these miles better than any CFL I've ever seen.
150 V is the open circuit voltage. Did you measure it with a load? Maybe it's current limited somewhere.
Remember when these were a surprising new design? Now they’re more common than the surface mount led designs.
The store I work at here in the UK started selling a range these today, passes all UK & EU safety requirements. 120lm at 1w through to 662lm at 6w.
very good filament
Great videos, would love to see you tear down the kill o watt
This is great! Where does one get this sort of test kit from? What would constitute a basic test kit for LED's and where could I buy these...? PF, Power Consumption, Flicker etc Thanks!
I have some of those bulbs,other model with two sets of two in series.makes sense we have 230v here so the voltage drop can stay low decreasing the size of the switshing coil.
Definitely an interesting concept.. but as others I'd love to know what the thermals are on it since there's no heat sink just how hot did those little things get..
they are hotter than any conventional led bulbs but you can unscrew them without switching off
Wow this bulb is actually way more interesting than I thought - I'm bit worried about heat managment there, not much to dissipate heat into, mostly radiation especially since it's enclosed in glass bulb that limits convection. I'm also quite surprised that they run those strips in parralel, any imbalance (eg one of the diodes going bad making a short) would affect all strips.
P.S. I would not worry about that insulation in transformer, main insulation here is glass bulb itself.
WOW! That was fast! Great teardown and review. How would you say it compares to standard 40, 60, or 75 watt incandesced for lighting a room? I to want to know more about the filaments.
It seems bright enough. At 4 watts this particular bulb a bit greater than 400lm i if the vendors efficacy numbers are correct ... somewhere between a 40W and 60W incandesent bulb.
***** it is correct for lumen. here we LED filament bulbs is 400-450 lm @3.5W. 800-850lm@ 6.5W
***** Do you recommend these bulbs?
COOL QUESTION FOR YOU! Great Video, first of all. Do you think there would be a way to power this bulb with DC power? For a shot in a commercial, we're looking to have an actress hold a bare bulb like this (a bigger version) with the edison style filaments, and have it fade on in her hand. Could easily solder leads with AC power and hide the wires somehow, but obvious in her hand, that's unsafe. Have any suggestions?
me gusta como hace las prubas, exelente
I wanted to see if one of these worked in my dimmer, so I pulled it out of the plastic packaging in near darkness (had torch at ready) and I noticed a little flash from the led strips. These things seem to detect static charge
If you look at my recent filament teardown I got some completely different ones that use the same string of 28 LEDs, but have them mounted on a perforated metal strip. That said, I just got a lamp like yours and it has the glass strips but only phosphor coated on one side. Possibly not enough room in mine for a switchmode, but I'll find that out when I open it....
bigclivedotcom It's an interesting technology, I wonder how much of the LED market will eventually use this approach.
***** I think the fact it fits in with the existing glass lamp manufacturing plants and quite frankly looks so good, that it will be a significant style of lamp. I just opened mine and while it looks like yours the circuitry is radically different (simpler!) for 240V mains. Teardown of filament style LED lamp. (Awesome lamp!)
Fascinating
certainly a layout i never thought of, maybe theres a gas that is somewhat conductive of heat they can put in there?, they only need to slightly improve the bar layout to get close to an incandescent filament output, frost the glass and no-one would mind having these
Frosted glass? Isn't the whole point the look of that bulb?
When they are lit they look like old fashioned clear bulbs. That is the idea of the filaments. I bought a bunch of them.
Does it produce the same wavelengths as a normal incandescent bulb?
Can the evolve be removed and the LED still illuminate?
Great Light
Ryan Digiland LED
I have found them to be more susceptible to voltage drops than other LED designs. when I power on the cooker or any other power hungry appliance the bulb dims so much sometimes it goes out completely but other bulbs are only slightly affected.
These new sapphire substrate LED filaments seem pretty revolutionary in the world of LED lighting. I don't understand why they aren't in all the stores yet. No heat sink? No flicker? Anyway, here's a vid I found of them being put together. Looks like a painstaking process, which makes me wonder if the reason they aren't in stores is they are still working on scaling production. my.tv.sohu.com/us/214591119/69869468.shtml
I counted about 30 bands, so 150/30 = 5 volts per LED. Isn't that still pretty high?
Maybe in the future, the rectification and smoothing circuitry could be advanced to the point where it could live inside the envelope, possibly reducing fire hazard. I guess though outgassing from those components contaminating the bulb could be a problem.
I have some candelabra base LED filament bulbs from Walmart under the GreatValue name to install in my ceiling fan. With a base so small I don't know how they get any electronics in there. Visually there is no strobing at all but you can see a slight pattern in the fan when running. Visually, when on, they are indistinguishable from normal lights when the fan is not running. I think these may be the final solution for the people who are still on the fence on bulbs.
I have the ones from Costco in my exterior garage lights. They look as good or better them my neighbors lights.
How interesting!
LEDs emit UV exciting the phosphor?
As far as I know about white LED's they use a kind of blue light that excites the remote phosphor.
These are the same used in the flux capacitor, except they are able to make them smaller now since the 1st generation in the 1980s
Would be interesting to see these with a properly made control PCB... those "JSH" capacitors don't really suggest quality to me.
Thank you do much for taking the time to post your video - I was wondering does the filament actually need to be in a glass housing to work. I would like to put this bulb in a glass jar, but 60mm Dia is just too big - I was wondering if I break the glass, will it still work OK? ANDREW
+Andrew Chesney It would continue to work. the glass envelope provides electrical safety (the voltages on the LEDs are high enough to be dangerous). Some bulbs are rumoured to have helium in them which would help with cooling.
+electronupdate THANK YOU that's really helpful - I will be mounting in a "Kilner" jar - so no issue with electrical safety. Regards ANDREW
Did the LEDs overheat. There's no heatsinking.
Maybe it will work well if you break the glass. but it's not safety. take care
its the coating on the material it self, when heat hits it Florence lights up, this effect is found on the cpu building experiment
I would love to know where to buy such a bulb in Europe and what Ra value it has. Does anyone know, or does anyone have an educated guess?
Thanks in advance :-)
Hey, i bought an 2W E14 LED filament bulb :( Its flickering at 100-200hz. Its like a strobe effect. really annoying, i cant see it with bare eyes but its there (seen on 240-480 fps camera):/
I believe it is called COG (Chip on glass)
as mibars already pointed out the transformer does not require safety approval since there are no exposed conductive parts.
Interesting. I expected it to be series strings of LEDs, but not deposited on glass. I was also expecting something like a capacitive dropper due to the use of long series strings of LEDs.
It is not mounted onto glass, it is sapphire substrate. also some people use the
Cooper with silver substrate, this style cost is lower than sapphire. but sapphire light effect is more perfect.
would braking the glass improve cooling?
hahaha
Quite interesting technology. Oil filling would make it have even more efficacy.
I'm amazed that this light doesn't seem to flicker at all in contrast with the same looking filament bulbs I have. I really like the type of lighting as well as the temperature but the flicker is downright awful at a low frequency. What could the difference be that these don't seem to flicker?
+KPsTboy Flicker is determined by the power supply topology in the base of the bulb. Better quality bulbs offer lower flicker (since reducing flicker generally requires additional components and cost)
Now if only they made these in a T10, my antique lamp would be brought into the future. (Email sent to sales to inquire about it)
They do, look for Edison LED T10.
Actually, I believe each of these filaments is 75V, as there are two in series, then pairs of two are in parallel.
What about the lm/W measurements? That would be interesting.
400 lumens is what he measured / 3.6 watts.
For clear cover it is about 140 lm/w, milky cover is about 110 lm/w.
Why do these light flicker? They use full wave bridge with smoothing caps - where is the flicker coming from? Is the frequency low enough to cause headaches, like on some shitty LED monitors?
Im asking since I've bought 4,6,8W versions of these bulbs and 4W doesn't seem to flicker, while 6 and 8W versions make horizontal lines when viewed on camera.
Zan I. These lights don't flicker as you saw on the video, though.
Depends more on Mfg then watts.
So in essence the filaments are very small COB LEDs. I don't know, why people still insist to get lights in antiquated bulb form. But I really like the construction of the COBs. Never seen something like that before. I'd like to know how hot they get. Each of the strips will have to dissipate 0.7 to .8 Watts.
COB as in chip-on-board? No. These are not individual dies mounted onto a substrate. They look like a thick film deposition onto a glass substrate... which is exotic indeed
*****
Nah, it's a simple COB as I expected. Just small LED dies on a ceramic substrate as most COBs nowadays.
www.led-trading.de/LED-E27-Leuchtmittel-36W-COB-Faden-Klarglas-warmweiss
Do a search for "led filament". Almost all of them show a bulb like this, and half of them mention the COB.
***** It's chip on glass,
www.runlite.cn/en/product-detail-145.html
www.tevaja.com/?page_id=11
***** Yes, it is not COB. Use the smallest power 27 epistar chips mounted onto Sapphire substrate. every strips is 0.75W. 70-80 V,10mA driver.
James Sleeman runlite makes LED filament, and www.foc-led.com makes LED filament bulbs.
I wonder if filling it with mineral oil will improve the performance
no
Finally non-flicker version! Last year I saw these at local store, was impressed, looked really good, but had a terrible flicker!
There are 2 versions - one is for 220-240V (or 110-130V) and universal 85-265V with a normal driver, you`d like to have. Gonna try those out for sure.
P.S. I found a datasheet on www.runlite.cn/en/product-detail-145.html
And there`s interesting req-ment - it needs to be filled with the cooling gas. I wonder what they meant, isn`t that enough to just pump some air inside ?
That's interesting, this would resolve cooling issues I'm suspecting from this design. I guess what gas they may recommend, SF6?
Isn`t SF6 inert ? If so it won`t work, this need good conductor. Anyway this particular LED`s are not suffering from overheating, because current is only 15mA.
Dalsir
It's the power that counts. These strips take just 10 mA, but at 80V totalling at 0.8W per strip that has no other means of dissipating wasted energy than direclty to surrounding gas. Glass (substrate here) conducts heat poorly. SF6 conducts heat about 3 times better than air at same pressure. It is inert, but due to its high density it transfers heat quitte well. I've just learned that it is quite significant greenhouse gas...
Glass conducts heat just fine. That`s the reason why we have double/triple/xxx pane windows in houses. And windows still have a greater heat leakage than walls do.
And don`t forget that these LED`s are very efficient, and size is enough to dissipate
0.8W, not even worth to concern.
I'm referring to datasheets that you've linked where there is info about some extra "cooling gas" :)
I was expecting this to be cheap as there is no heat-sinking but it's twice as expensive as the standard LED bulbs on the bay!
Here are some, sold here in the US. Some dimmable and some not. However all are UL listed.
electronics.mcmelectronics.com/search?cataf=&view=list&w=pro+elec+led+filament+bulb&x=0&y=0
Does it get hot like an incandescent?
Leds get hot... not nearly as hot as an old incandescent, but they are far from cold when operating
Thanks
no, it's led bulb ,less than an incandescent
More like warm, some older LED bulbs did get hot but that problem has been solved for years. Halogen is probably the hottest bulb, they are more efficient then incandescent but are often quite small for the high output they render.
How does it stay cool?
I think they are under driving the LED filament strips and put a constant current through them.
***** It still consumes over 3 watts. Under driving is not the cause to keep it cool.
You see in the video, that these strips consists of a large number of LEDs in series. So they are working with high voltage. High voltage means less heat.
***** Nope. Wattage is wattage, and the only relevant factor is the LED efficiency. If the LEDs are 50% efficient, and they're being driven with 3.6W, half of that 3.6W is going to be dissipated as heat.
There's no getting around the physics.
Yes, but when these strips are 6 Watts rated and you put 3,6 through, then it will be much cooler. And for LEDs you won't get half the light, you get more than that because the efficiency increases when you underdrive them.
what about flickering..?
no flicker
so i guess the lifetime may not be very high since all the heat is trapped?
LED bulbs have lower Ra (CGI index/color rendering index 80-82) and lower quality light when comparing to standard incadescent or halogen bulbs (with CGI 100). The light from incadescent bulb is not replaceable with todays LED (they are only at the beginning). I haven´t found e.g. E14 LED bulb with CGI 100, dimmable, 2700 K, with real luminance and with glass down to screw thread (bulb with all these parameters at once)
I used GE LED bulbs for the kitchen since these one have 93 + to 96+ CRI ratings. they dim and come in with 3000K or even select-able K outputs.
very good. i'm led star
I undesrtand that this bulb is not dimmable, what would happen if I use a dimmer on it? thanks
They pulse.
Many are dimmable. The candelabra one Costco sells truly dim. Their $1 A19 ones do not and flicker at low settings.
OTTFF 3W Dimmable RGB LED Family Party Lighting e27 Bulb Disco DJ Stage Bar lights Effect with Remote Control. I'm seeing these novelty color changing led, should tear these down they come remote controlled
400lm seems a bit low. I for one can't wait till these things get to 1000 or so.
So far the biggest power is 6.5W ,800-850 lm replace 60w incandescent bulbs. when we solve the heating problem. i think will have more power and lumen.
***** I got mine at Home Depot. They've had them for a few years now. Trouble is, I don't know what they mean by 60w equivalent as they are dimmer then your average 60w.
***** I would try Alibaba.com as they have a multitude of suppliers just pay attention to specs, warranty, reputation.... Your not missing out on the Home Depot ones as most their warranties especially Philips are terrible, restricting and really give you no guarantee they will honor it.
*****
I bought some 75w equivalent (has six filaments) on amazon. It's really only 800 lumens but I LOVE THEM. They look high quality and very retro. They are all over amazon. Buy the the 6 and 8 watt versions. 6 watt is usually, 600 lumens and 8 watts is 800 lumens. I mixed the 75w and 60w in a bathroom fixture.
(4) 40 watt equivalents that use (4) 4watt filaments that look amazing in a fan lamp (450 lumens per bulb with 4 watts).
They come in two colors: 2700k that is a very cool retro yellow and a 3000k that is pretty nice too.
*****
Yeah, the price will come down. I only need a couple of the "75s" I bought mostly 60's and 40's. I use the filament bulbs only when they are exposed and have to look nice.
Otherwise, I just buy Crees.
I also tore this bulb down and found it to be NOT Safe. No fuse etc... The packaging is poor. One of mine was broken upon arrival. No heat sinking. Did you have a chance to check thermals? I don't think this bulb will last very long.
i checked thermals of this particular model and it is one of the coolest, measured around 30C on the base and 33C on the upper plastic. those readings were at around 26C ambien temp.
Which bulbs have a fuse? I'm trying one at the moment, it works for a few hours and it's quite cool. Color Temp: 2700K and 4W it's a little dark, I suppose 6W could be better.
No flicking, less electronic parts, almost no heat emission, traditional glass bulb envelope (no chance to touch elements with voltage, people will not notice that you have LED lights, but you saving money because of low power consumption) these things are advantages with compare to normal LED/SMD/COB lamps, no IR or UV emission as per factory description, they said about 30.000 life span. I wondering what are disadvantages, there must be something, it could not be perfect...maybe this circuit board could cause some problems.
Ouch, they are expensive critters! gotta love the no-name flimsy packaging and coming direct from China, woopety-do, there is no warranty either! I am not impressed yet! :^) Daniel
They are $6 for 6 at Costco.
STILL NO CHEAP 100 and 150w equivalent ones!!!
time to destroy all my old cfls
+Nathan Dance Dont google image search "Broken CFL Injuries".
They contain mercury, dispose of them at Home Depot. There is bin near the returns desk.
www.ledinside.com/press/2016/3/power_photon_deomonstrates_led_filament_tube_and_cooling_package. In the future, the omni-directional light bulb won’t include PLCC, EMC package or CSP, ELC non-package SMD LED. Of course, there is no MCPCB thermally conductive substrate, heat sink, lamp shade shell and etc. In the successful development of LED filament tube new light source, it towards C.F.L. energy-saving lamps’ divide the work production and sales mode which is the assembly plant procurement filament tube source, power driver module, and etc. production packaging. The brand passage will toward the vast world market for sale.After more than10 years of accumulated experience of numerous failures, R&D personnel of POWER PHOTON CO., LTD. finally can solve LED filament cooling problem! LED filament tube and cooling package. This patent technology has already applied for registration in many countries of the world. Hope to open a brand new light source solution for human light requirement.
www.ledinside.com.tw/qiye/20160310-32200.html
未來LED燈泡將不再有PLCC、EMC封裝或CSP、ELC無封裝貼片，當然也沒有MCPCB導熱基板、散熱片及燈罩外殼等，在LED燈絲毛管新光源的開發成功下，朝向C.F.L.節能燈泡的分工生產銷售模式，即組裝廠採購燈絲毛管光源、電源驅動模組等生產包裝，品牌通路面向世界寬廣的市場發售。
寶福通光能有限公司的研發人員，歷經10年來無數失敗的經驗累積，LED燈絲散熱終於得解! LED燈絲毛管、散熱封裝；此一專利技術已向世界多國申請注冊，願為人類照明需求開啟全新光源解決方案。
If there's a device physicist I would like to hear from him. Not her, just a him?
NoneOther - That’s what you got out of this presentation? Seriously?
Aint no such ting as er female device physicist.
And this is why China is kicking our ass.