And Along Came Gilgamesh (Proto-Zeus?) | Overly Sarcastic Productions
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Overly Sarcastic Productions: Legends Summarized, The Epic of Gilgamesh Reaction
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Legends Summarized: The Epic of Gilgamesh
• Legends Summarized: Th...
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The earliest known writing system didn't appear until roughly 3,000 BC, in Mexico. So the story about 7 sisters etc managed to survive in purely oral tradition for over 97,000 years!
In Mexico? Not Mesopotamian?
Huh not Mexico dude Mesopotamia in modern day Iraq with cuneiform the dated to have start being used around 3200 B.C
"Who´s going to remember a Death this lame?"
Ironic, concidering he is Part of the World´s biggest Homework Asignment.
During the Babylonian period, they wrote a new tablet for the Epic of Gilgamesh that gave Enkidu and Gilgamesh a happy ending. Basically Gilgamesh staggers back into his home, steps into his room and finds Enkidu alive and well. Some people feel very strongly about that, going as far as accusing the Babylonians of pulling a Ted Turner on the ancient epic.
Ah fanfiction writing an au happy ending.....a tale as old as time.
There is also a story where Gilgamesh sends Enkidu back to the underworld to fetch an object he left there.
About Gilgamesh and Enkidu being lover, yes it's true and the only people who usually argue against it are the same people who look at historical records of two women living together and never marrying and then saying "ah they must have been best friend!"
"historians hate lovers"~
"And they were roommates!"
@@drizzmatec Oh my god they were roommates
There is a lot more to this than just historians saying they were best friends and or roommates. There are views aon cultures, language, and dialect of the time. Were Gilgamesh and Enkidu lovers maybe as there are evidence for and against it. Take for instance Gilgamesh dreams. He sees Enkidu as an ax in which his mother says he will be by your side as a wife, however in ancient times, Sumerians were givens gifts as baby to grow up strong, such as males given axes. So that they would be strong warriors and it would remain by their side as a wife. So was it a reference to Gil growing up or gaining lover is hotly debated.
Also Gilgamesh is the Akkadian version of Bilgames since ancient sumerian died out around 2000 bce there are 5 poems about Bilgamesh which the epic is based on where Enkidu was his servent/slave so he got an upgrade
If you consider how the Throne of Heroes operates then this essentially means that Gil actively gets stronger the more his story is discovered.
That'll do wonders for his giant ego as well
@@reginleifr7300At that point it's threatening a universal collapse from ego.
I believe there are some translations where in the dreams they have before they meet and when they’re like “what could this mean” the women just say “you’re gonna meet a man and you will love him as you would a wife”
21:31 Props to the Epic of Gilgamesh for properly respecting sex workers.
tbf, from what I remember hearing, it's not like Shamhat was just a regular sex worker, pretty sure her role, despite including sex work, made her closer to a priestess.
@@Justic_ ...sexy nuns real.
Sex Priestesses, but yes
The relationship between humans and sex over the ages is fascinating to me. In hindsight it makes a lot of sense that people saw something deeply spiritual in sex, leading to associating that to religion and priestesses. Yet, at some point that idea died out and the opposite mindset took hold, where abstinence became the more religious approach.
20:05 I'm not aware of any mythological link between Gilgamesh and Zeus. Zeus most likely comes from the Sky Father archetype, and his Mesopotamian counterpart would be Anu (Ishtar's father who lent her the Bull of Heaven, which connects to the versions of the Greek myth that describe Aphrodite as Zeus's daughter). Unfortunately, "man abuses power to assault women and evade the consequences" is simply a universal narrative.
Don't think there's any actual link between Zeus and Anu though, or at least the bit about Aphrodite/Ishtar being their daughter, considering at least in Reds video on Aphrodite she came to Greece completely seperately from him.
Zeus actually excited before he was the head honcho of the Greek pantheon, so he wasn't created in accordance with the sky father archetype.
@@Justic_ I didn't mean that Anu imported to Greece as Zeus the way Aphrodite did. More that they are both Sky Father/King gods, so it's likely (though not proven as far as I know) that they could be seen as counterparts and may share a Proto-Indo-European origin. Kind of like how Red describes Pan and Pushan in the Hermes video.
A giant massively strong demigod killing various divine beasts including a lion and a bull? Gilgamesh is not Zeus. He Heracles.
Your reaction to the "seven sisters" thing is what I was waiting for. Its freaking wild. And also makes me realize how much of human story telling was never written down. Think of all the stories created by mankind since the beginning of writing. Now realize that that's only a tiny fraction of all stories to ever exist.
“Do you not know that a man is not dead while his name is still spoken?” -Sir Terry Pratchett (GNU)
And just like that‚ Terry Pratchett lives again.
The Royal game of Ur is an actual game and the rules are pretty easy to find. It was part board game and part divination device where the pieces represented astrological signs and various gods. It may even have been a important part of the Ester story in the Bible, but is not directly referenced by name there.
Its a running joke with OSP that whenever characters have adult fun times they instead play boardgames like yatzee
The french grotto paintings you were talking about is probably Lascaux, and while the grotto has been closed itself, there is a one-to-one replica of the grotto nearby if you want to visit.
3:55 No, they were people just like us.
18:35 There is zero historical evidence of that ever actually being a thing. The closest we have to historical evidence is people claiming that it was a thing in previous centuries with the evidence for those claims being little more than "because I said so".
22:24 If Red were doing a JoJo, she would have done it correctly and done the poses and weird camera angle.
38:37 It is possible, but unlikely. Flood myths tend to come in two varieties, cyclical and catastrophic. In places like Egypt where the flooding of the Nile is very regular, tend to have calmer, less destructive flood stories, while other places, where the floods tend to be rarer and more destructive, tend to have more catastrophic flood stories.
its a common belief among anthropologists that the flood of utnapishtim is the direct inspiration for the Tanach story of Noah and the flood. the stories in the Tanach (aka the old testament) are mostly accepted as allegorical and moralistic by Jews, rather than literal records of events as they are seen by christians, so it's not too odd that the authors of the Old T would use a commonly known old myth for literary references, Re: Plato likening Atlantis to the Minoan eruption.
The credits mention that the time Gilgamesh and his Manwife boned was extended with more accurate translations. I live for this.
And this why Ishtar is in my second archive. She ruined someone's life because rightfully her reputation of disaster caught up to her, and she decided to put a catch 22 using the bull.
FGOs Ishtar is mixed with her vessel Rin though. This tempers her a lot. I think the purest version of Fates Ishtar is in Fate Strange Fake.
Why not burn her though? I did with Elizabeth Bathory and Tamamo Cat and Lancer.
@@reginleifr7300 Well out of spite I have her in the second archive so she can see the fun but never participate (extra salt I recently got Erishkigal so yay).
I'm surprised you dislike Tamamo Cat (then again she was my early gold and won me some early story bosses), I'm ehh on Elizabeth, and Cu has lived like a Twinkie ironically and been some help.
Re doggerland and the great flood.
There's several instances around the Arabian coast, Japan, doggerland, etc if human settlements now being underwater from the ending of the ice ages which would have been oreseved in stories and myth.
That fact about the seven sisters though made me giggle
14:22 - the music in this bit got copyright claimed so Red had to edit it out with CZcams's built-in tools, hence the drop in audio quality.
The Persian Gulf was once a low-lying wetland. It is theorized that the ancestors of the Sumerians came from there and were driven out by the rising sea. This is partly an explanation as to why their language is unrelated to any other known.
On ask and ax, aks/ax were standard until about 1600 and are currently only dialectical, however the word comes from the Middle English asken(also esken, aschen, eschen, etc.), from the Old English āscian, from Proto-West Germanic *aiskōn, from Proto-Indo-European *h₂eys- (“to wish; request”). From wiktionary, the last two word are only hypothesised to exist and are reconstructions based on comparative evidence.
So we started with something closer to ask, then at some point switched to ax and then switched to ask for some reason.
Also this:
Pronouncing ask as /æks/ or /ɑːks/ is a common example of metathesis (attested since the Old English period) and still common in some varieties of English, notably African American Vernacular English (AAVE) and Multicultural London English (MLE). So it’s just something that’s always been there.
If you are looking for the word about the area of Finland, Sweden and Norway: It's Scandinavia.
Alright kids, do your homework because sometime in the long distant future someone might find the USB or SSD your teacher stored it on and it will be a key component to rediscovering the history and culture of our time period.
They will study our porn for centuries to come.
They will be studying the mysteries of R34 for centuries to come.
Ok i don't think you're gona see this but...
Red Riding Hood was originally a Norse story about adulthood (wolf = big man girl loss of innocence)
Gilgamesh basically NTR'd a lot of ancient dudes
Oh, the floods are very Common theme in many legends.... Christian and Babylonian mythology, Hindi, Greek, Tupi-
12:08 The term you're looking for is Nordic.
Appearently, Enkidu was even more of a chad than described in the video, because a more recent-ish discovered and translated tablet added ANOTHER 7 days of lovemaking with Shamhat before he became civilzed, so 14 days total! Although I remember reading about this before the Babylonia-chapter even came out in FGO NA, which was years before Red made this video, so since that's not included, either she had an outdated source, or it's been declared a mistranslation since, who knows.
But yeah, anyways, it's amazing how close Fate stayed with Gilgameshs story, despite taking quite a few liberties. Of course very noticeable with Enkidu, not quite the "monstrous picture of a man" he's portrayed as most commonly, but due to him starting as a monstrous humanoid made of clay, have him take shape after Shamhat, the one who taught him of human civilization. Humbaba is... another interesting example. Enkidu has an Interlude in FGO that actually reveals that, before he even met Shamhat, Enkidu and Humbaba were "friends", so to say. Not to mention, Humbaba itself, rather than just being a hideous monster (and boy is its description hideous), in Fate consists of, how else could it be, a bunch of dead childrens souls, proto-Jack the Ripper, so to say. I don't remember how exactly that came to be, but from that the writers also gave Enkidu another reason to face Humbaba, so that if anyone would kill them, it was Enkidu or at least in Enkidus presence, but also to put the souls of these children to rest, thus giving him reason to be both reluctant about yet on board with slaying Humbaba. And after that... the myth is basically the same. I think even Siduri, Gilgameshs secretary in FGO, appears as a side-character in the actual Epic? Although I remember reading that Siduri was also a goddess? Not sure, I have yet to properly read through the entire Epic myself.
Nah, red mentions in the video (briefly, in text) and in the final crawl about the bit where they had sex for another 7 days.
According to Egyptians had multiple souls. One Soul in the Heart. But the soul I remember is you die when no one says your name. Which is why Egyptian Pharaohs built great monuments so people would remember their name and praise them by speaking it.
That is why the ultimate punishment for a ruler is to erase their name from wall paintings, temples, and monuments because you killed one of their souls.
This happened to the hated Akhenaten and female Hatshepsut. Akhenaten for making Egypt monotheistic Worshipping the sky disc only. Then Hatshepsut built monuments and building projects but to secure the legitimacy of Thutmos II who was too young to take the Throne when Hatshepsut was made Pharoah Regent until he came of age. Thutmos II didn't want Hatshepsut to overshine his male royal line.
I found the names of the other 8 Egyptian parts of the souls.
1. Khet or the "physical body"
2. Sah or the "spiritual body"
3. Ren or the "name, identity"
4. Ba or the "personality"
5. Ka or the "double" or "vital essence"
6. Ib or the "heart"
7. Shut or the "shadow"
8. Sekhem or the "powe
This is from a Wikipedia article so this may not be the most accurate. But I know the heart soul and nature soul is real.
finally i wanted for you to watch this video for so long just because red talks a bit about fate at the end
If I remember correctly according to strange fake novel humbaba is one of the few being that make fate gilgamesh experience fear.
18:31, uh, Airier, I'm like 90% certain that is a falsehood, it was never something medieveal monarchs either did or had the right to. I believe it comes from the victorian era and it's many, many falsehoods about the mediveal times.
The Incan equivalent of writing was based on a system of tying knots in string called a Quipu, and it's recently been rediscovered how this records numbers, and it's suspected that there might be some quipu with words tied in the strings that is the next thing to research.
20:11 Gilgamesh did not influence Zeus, as they both come from wholly different cultures with Zeus rampant sexual shenagens being easily explained due to him playing the role of the sky father who beside in mythology fathering many gods in practice was seen as being responsible for the rain thus ensuring the fertility and growth on earth itself.
That kind of falls flat when you remember that Tammuz, Ishtar, and possibly even Ereshkigal were imported into Greek culture, with Tammuz becoming Adonis, Ishtar becoming Aphrodite, and Ereshkigal potentially being Persephone based on the story of how she's allowed to leave the underworld relating to the story of how Ishtar was allowed to leave the underworld, her beef with Aphrodite over Adonis, and the older legends that describe Persephone in a much more intimidating manner, like 'Dread Persephone', implying that she used to fill a similar role to Ereshkigal as the terrifying queen of the underworld.
It also doesn't help that Aphrodite's origin as being born from the foam kicked up Ouranos's severed testicles after Cronus cut them off is similar to how Ishtar's father became pregnant with her after biting off his father's testicles.
@@Brutalyte616 You are forgetting that those were later inclusion into the myth unlike Zeus stuff which came at a whole packet from the start.
@@crimsonfucker4167 Well consider that Cronus is Zeus's father, the castration of Ouranos and subsequent birth of Aphrodite establishes her as older than Zeus and the other Olympians, the oldest version of Aphrodite is her Spartan incarnation as Aphrodite Areia, and Zeus used to be relegated to a more minor role back in the Mycenaen pantheon, with Poseidon being both the head god and a Cthonic deity with strong ties to the earth and the underworld, and he had a wife that may have been the precursor to Persephone. However, those same Mycenaen sources don't mention Aphrodite by name, implying she was newer to the pantheon than Zeus when she was imported into Sparta from the Cult of Astarte, but she was still categorized as being from an older generation of pre-Olympian gods alongside the Titans. So how much of Zeus's story was rewritten where he became the chief god of the Olympian pantheon, the father of Aphrodite and Persephone?
@@Brutalyte616 Don't forget that equally if not even older source were Aphrodity is daughter of Zeus which to me looks like she took over a role of an older goddess who had become irrelevant compared to Aphrodity.
Anyway even though Zeus may have not been the head of the pantheon during Mycenean time he most likely still played an role of an older king of the god as many similar sky father gods in the related cultures played even when not considered the main head of the pantheon.
@@crimsonfucker4167 He was definitely a sky god, but the Mycenaens seemed to value more earthly gods, and we're not entirely certain when or how Zeus was deemed relevant enough to become the head of the pantheon and the de facto king of the Olympians. My guess is Zeus's portfolio as the god of storms and lightning was maintained and something happened to the Mycenaens to consider thunder and lightning to be far more frightening than earthquakes and waves. I'd wager a REALLY bad storm, possibly a hurricane, blew through the Mediterranean and put a healthy amount of fear and respect in the Ancient Greeks for Zeus, but that's speculative.
As for Aphrodite? Remember that she was imported to Sparta as the war goddess Astarte, and that characterization lead her to receive the 'Areia' epithet, implying a tie to Ares, which is interesting when one story of Hera's conception of Ares is that she conceived Ares all on her own out of spite for Zeus, hence why Ares came out as a more bloodthirsty and destructive god of war than Athena or Aphrodite Areia.
If I may get speculative again, assuming that Ares as we understand him didn't exist in Mycenaen Greece, then it's possible that Aphrodite Areia was the more prominent war god during the transition to the Hellenistic pantheon, and Aphrodite Areia was split into the classical Aphrodite Pandeimos, while her bloodthirsty nature went to Ares and her capacity as a female warrior and tactician was turned into Athena. Zeus having to dissuade Aphrodite from getting involved with the battle, as well as her involvement with starting the war in the first place may have been jabs at the old practice of worshipping Aphrodite as a war goddess after her role as the goddess of love, sex, and beauty had been established.
Of course, that's all speculation on my part.
Zeus came from the Indo-European Deus Pieter the sky father.
It is said before the Romans met the Greeks praised Jupiter as their sky God along with Roman only Gods. But once seeing the similarities to Greek Gods they abandoned the Archaic Roman pantheons for the Classical Greek Pantheon but made Ares the well loved honorable God Mars instead of the chaotic laughed at Ares. Combined Hades the death God with the Greek wealth God Plutus named Plato.Made Hera more evil. Then later recruited Egyptian Gods combining Thoth with Hermes making Hermes Trisgreat.
The Hindus, Persians, Greeks, Etruscans, Romans, Celtics, Germanics, Norsemen, Anglo-Saxons, share Indo-European religious background.
36:29 Noah ref😂
Was waiting for that. Looking forward to seeing your reaction to the rant at the end, Mr "FGO was telling the truth" ;)
8.4K years ago what is now the black sea was the location of a civilization that first domesticated horses and spoke the common ancestor of all languages from Morocco to Siberia and Sri-Lanka. It's highly likely that the disaster that turned that valley into a Sea was quite sudden and was the origin of all the great flood stories.
The old woman who directed Gilgamesh to the boatman, Urshanabi, was not a goddess. She was just an alewife named Siduri. Early translators didn't have the section of the tablets that described her role more clearly and so they assumed she was a goddess.
Okay, so... Unironically, 'Pleiades' plays a massive role in Re:Zero at one point. And not just because of the name... And the seven stars might be related.
He hurled his thunderbolt!
46:49 The Greek God of Wine is Dionysus
The reason you get relics from people by getting them back to the people in the game, is it is very important for it not to get in the hands of the British museum.
Zaragan, Hamarabi, Ashurbanipal, and Gilgamesh.
watching from airport to vist my grand parnts for the last time (there in there 90s now)
21:48 Have you reacted to the Amaterasu and The Cave video, and I just missed it somehow?
I need to know, because you've referenced the story at least twice now, and I'm super confused.
The vid file got corrupted by a power outage before I finished recording (a couple vids were lost like that)..
@@Airier Damn, that's a shame, Red's video is very fun. Would have liked to see your reaction.
23:10 very different as kissing was part of a ritual of paying homage to the king without having anything sexual being attached to the act.
As someone who has gotten used to Fate's version of Enkidu, seeing a buff bearded dude is a bit jarring...
No Red is right stories die easy out of the billion stories told throughout human history most are gone just like most animals. If you tell a story to a friend and you both die before telling it to someone else its gone some of them might change or even mutate into something similar but not the same but even so most of those ever told are also gone
YES! The gods have answered my call!
There's a theory with the flood myths that relates directly to Gilgamesh that's really intriguing; it hinges on something very unique about the Sumerian language, specifically that it's a language isolate, it's largely unrelated to the semetic languages in the rest of that region. The only reason we can even translate it is that we've found tablets similar to the rosetta stone that contain copies of the same text in Sumerian and Akkadian, a semetic language that we can translate because it overlaps with other semetic languages like aramaic jewish and arabic among others. The thing is sumerian is different, we have no other examples of a related language, the people that spoke it developed their language seperately from anyone anywhere near sumeria, it's not related to the languages to the east either. BUT one thing we know, is that what we now call the persian gulf was once a gigantic fertile valley inhabited by humans, when the seas rose this whole valley was flooded under what is now the persian gulf. This took thousands of years but we're talking about several thousand years of the ocean eating the land at an average of three feet per day, coincidentally right at the end of this flooding is when sumerian cities start showing up in mesopotamia, at the north end of the sea that just ate several million square miles of really prime land that lots of humans used to live in, speaking a language unlike anyone else in the area speaks, telling the oldest recorded story of the gods flooding the world.
I don't remember for sure, but when I was in college, one person commented on the fact that there are flood stories across the world that feature some kind of grand flood that wiped out a good chunk of the world, a la bible style.
This is a case of us having a small piece of history that we might not be able to check the physical land for, but knowing it exists in stories outside of the bible (a highly religious text) allows us to know a great flood happened at *some* point in Earth's history. Which is similar to the 7 Sisters story. Where the story is able to help us by pointing out a piece of information that would only have been possible to know back a long time ago, thereby dating the story in question.
One thing I love about the epic of Gilgamesh is that it's only survived as much as it had because it was writing homework.
Gilgamesh is basically the Shakespeare of olden days
Urbanmech extended cut has been out for a while.
the flooding of the black sea is more resent
20:59 Yowza!
44:29 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
This makes me wonder how many scribes would try and sneak in their own changes because who wants to copy word for word a story that everyone is familiar with?
you mean Lascaux? yeah, they had to build a replica to keep the orig from being destroyed by tourists.
Technically any information provided to another human being is just a story being told.
I highly recommend hades and persephone from OSP
to this day it is my favourite video from red
18:25 Actually, this was NOT something that was common in a lot of monarchies. The whole "right of prima nocta" thing was made up by Victorians to make Medieval times look bad.
21:00 you could call this a combination of Beauty and The Beast and Tarzan.😊
Nice episode.
But Airer, Change IS death.
Spoken by a dead man.
Red's rant against Fate and their WTF character design choices gives me life. She's so damn right.
Fate is weird. They sometimes reference the most niche of trivia, clearly showing the amount of research that went into it but completely and utterly refuse to get the design of any character right. Tbf i find it very funny how much it pisses some people off.
I think you would really enjoy the video about Aristophanes
If Enkidu is Man-Wife, does that mean Gilgamesh was stronger at end of their fight and made Enkidu "bottom"?
True that back then, in their culture being bottom might not been considered feminine position, but if it was seen as other culture have seen it then Gil beat Enkidu in the end, fell in love with someone who was almost as strong as he was and promised to leave newly wed women alone with their husbands if Enkidu stays with Gils bed from then on?
Then again this could mean that Enkidu wasn't into this 100% but took offer to help women. Perhaps as time passed he didn't regret that anymore and enjoyed it?
Just thinking social-norms might have affected story at start or at translation of story in tablets. Kiss is seen as sexual indication today, but if i remember correctly in past it was way to show affection, to lover and important people. You could in past kiss someone and it was just seen that you two are close (family, related, friend and etc.) so it would not have been seen as odd to kiss around.
Gilgamesh showing Enkidu to Gils mother might also indicate Gil winning? Again it might be more social-norm we are educated on how people in past though: Man hit woman with club, man drag woman home, man introduces woman to his mother, womans mother not know what happen to daughter.
All information that i have learned do indicate Gilgamesh winning their fight, they were not equally strong. I do hope i am wrong with this.
Then again, this was old story at time they wrote it, so this version might be nicer one or one where Gilgamesh is shown to be greater due to bias.
If FGO was accurate sans gender, Gilgamesh would be a big tiddy muscle momma.
Oh sweet more meat for the grill.
Do Blues Cleopatra, it is awesome
dude please go watch Jon Solo. You'll love it, he goes into the origins of some stories and characters
I'm sorry I still love the twink version of gilgamesh. I mean who wouldn't want to the hit that.
Ohh, and on another note they think drake in FGO is really Elizabeth the first. Anyway Fate be wired like that
18:35 no nah nah, that is just pop culture, belief started during the renaissance, no proof of such practice actually happening exist.
So, Medieval Kings did not sleep with the Peasant wives.
@@covenawhite4855 At least not during the said wives wedding night.
Jujutsu kaisen abridged episodes 7 and 8 are out now
Unfortunately the thing about the Pleiades is something that OSP is just not really right about. Yes they're citing a source, but that source forgot something very obvious: you can see more than 6 stars in the Pleiades *today*. Or, well, maybe you can't, but people with especially sensitive eyes (and in areas where there's very little light pollution, like how the ancient world would have been) can sometimes see seven or even eight stars in that constellation. So this isn't evidence of humans passing down a story for 100,000 years, sadly.
Nordic?
Day 37 of asking Airier for ENA reaction (oldest story in the world, talks about an age in the past of the author. I'm loling hard right now.)
What is ena