The hatespeech bot angle was a horrible angle for several reasons. Even if it worked and it got journalists attention, by making the complaint be the *words* that the bots were saying and not their actions, you give valve the easiest out possible where they just add a strict wordfilter and ban people who get caught by it too often and then go to those very same journalists for ass pats about how they're doing their part to fight hate online. Even if the desperate attempt for journalist attention paid off and valve DID do more than just censor the game further, they'd still do the above and completely ruin a significant part of the game's character and personality. It wouldn't be just the bots valve targeted and it wouldn't be just shock value trolling that they'd censor. They'd go the easiest route and get an undersized staff of volunteers with free reign to crack down on all offensive or rude language. Just look at how the steam community forums are moderated, the only thing stopping everyone from being banned all the time is the massive understaffing the forums have. Tyler is a moron.
this guy gets it. and steam at the time already got in game filter system added. Instead Valve fixing the game. they activate their anti free speech word filter. and called it a day "we did it, we muted the f2ps". Tyler have done more damage to the tf2 community, more than the bot. he IS worse than the bot. remember creators tf2 ? or how he streamed UNRELEASED WORKING VR version of Half life Alyx. that was few week away from launch. i swear, he is the biggest reason why Valve no longer communicate with us. he should do a wamo and leave the tf2 community honestly.
Timestamps below: 0:26 richter introduction 3:03 short weezy video note + fixtf2 name: 5:03 purpose of the hashtag 9:35-17:32 start of the conversation - squimjim - got the ball rolling, didn't really take the leader spot but was the first, did it right and it's admirable. 12:10 some articles as result: - articles pointed at the problem, SJ did a good job. 14:58-17:16 short note about valve new game deadlock - overall seems unappealing. 17:35-24:25 tyler mcvicker followed after SJ, tried to bring the bots swearing issue to grab journals attention (good), but missed the point and also retaliated after a slight mess he made. 21:43-23:06 email campaign doesn't endanger workers 24:36-28:46 medic voice actor tweet 26:17 is botting crisis better after savetf2 (38:01 results) 30:01-33:20 someordinarygamers video 34:04-35:40 richter overtime video 35:45 savetf2 reddit image - it did a good thing, but the focus shifted from bot problem to showing valve love. 38:34 important part 40:27 boycott isn't about monney, it's about message 42:29 analyzing the savetf2 image 45:31 shork's reddit comment 46:29 legal notice. 47:47 important part 53:17 shork's importance as the leader 55:17 peaceful should also include negative 55:59 savetf2 had a 2nd iteration? who lead it? 57:37 the spy guy who went to valve 58:45 THE VALVE TWEET 1:01:02 zesty without beard 1:04:32 repeating the purpose of boycotting 1:06:56 jerma's short savetf2 reaction 1:09:18-1:11:26 moistcritical video 1:10:19 gaylord hotels 1:11:56 CAT (her name is echo) 1:12:53 when the pressure stopped 1:14:41 ueakcrash workshop open letter 1:17:29 important part - lack of pressure on valve 1:20:38 shork's conflict of interests 1:22:12 what leader should fixtf2 have? (it's a collective) 1:28:53 cooperate with other games (CS2 L4D) 1:33:21-1:34:58 richter alone with chat 1:35:24 repeat boycott purpose with a story (lvl100) 1:39:20 shork's and weezy's risk with boycott 1:45:00 weezy's WoW story had a boycott 1:47:13 update against bots was planned before savetf2 1:53:43 zesty's long videos are part of his job's skillset 2:00:38 reaching 100k subs
I just realize. Remember Zesty was talkin about how Workshop creators like to make some kind of new gamemode like VSH and Zombie infection, and just forgot about it RIGHT after it made into the game and they just making new project right after It reminds me of, guess who, VALVE itself! *Create new revolutionary game > Stop supporting game > Move to next project > Create new revolutionary game* They do that all the time, from Half life to Dota and CS2 Fuck your revolutions VALVE, WE WANT WORKING GAMES
The majority of their old games were abandoned far quicker than TF2, I mean fucking look at DOD:S and HL:S, both of those games were abandoned despite probably requiring support
This is a good idea. When Deadlock finally get's announced, hijack the hype and make it about how TF2 is abandoned as much as possible. It sounds like a horrible PR nightmare.
No because then people will say "Oh look at the TF2 fans, making everything about themselves again." We gotta stick to our turf, don't care about Valorant 2.
Deadlock is gonna be a PR nightmare the moment it drops lol Valve is so far detached from the vision they once had that I highly doubt it will be anything but another half baked rehashing of the same shtick weve been seeing in modern gaming as of late
Calling it now. This new FixTF2 movement that the content creators are planning will be half assed and ineffective. If past gaming controversies where players were able to successfully pressure a company to either make changes or get answers for the future of the game(WoW, Battlefront lootboxes, Sim City offline mode, Mass Effect 3's ending, Destiny 2 throttling EXP, Diablo Immortal needing a statement that PC/Consoles weren't being abandoned for the series, Maplestory, though this one hasn't produced a change yet as far as I know) are to be learned from, these cases show that successful boycotts or community campaigns against larger companies need to either have a visible impact/threat to profits, or be a PR nightmare/pose a significant risk to the company or series reputation. Valve does not have a close enough relationship with the community where something like a petition, trending hashtag, or statements from a few content creators will be enough to get answers from a community manager or someone else at the company. If Wheezy, other content creators, and the community are already deciding to take trying to organize a financial boycott off the table, treating it as some sort of nuclear option, ignoring the conflict of interest from some of these creators producing content relying on purchasing items from Valve, that's already one major possible means of getting Valve's attention gone. Granted, something like this is probably only going to be effective if organized for a seasonal update, but if it's already off the table when the movement is likely to be at its height, that's not a good sign. All that leaves then is causing a PR disaster for Valve. While I'm not saying people should raise hell in every corner of the internet or do anything crazy like harass individual employees, the things that helped get an answer last time were not making polite posts on social media, signing petitions, or internet slacktivism. It was putting the problem directly in Valve's face and in some cases, testing the line of what the average person might consider acceptable (Showing up at their office), to put the issue in Valve's face in such as way that they can't just ignore the problem until it goes away. I don't know what people like Wheezy, Shork, and other content creators have in the works. I don't know if they're getting in contact with big names outside of the community to help spread attention, or if they have some other angle they intend to take instead of just focusing on the bot problem, or if they intend to time everything for the summer update/any announcements about Deadlock. I also have doubts about a second push from the community gathering as much outside attention as it did before. But I don't think people should rely on content creators to do anything more than get the ball rolling. Concerns about remaining acceptably polite, following some unspoken etiquette of how to conduct themselves for their community, not burning any bridges, and ensuring that their content has a future, will likely hold all of them back far from the point of being able to effectively pressure a company that is the size of Valve. If they can't provide results again due to a weak message, poor organization, bad timing, or failing to sustain the movement for a significant amount of time, we shouldn't be surprised if the initial message becomes weakened as people try other directions or attract controversy due to pushing things even further. As much as I hate to say it, depending on what the initial plan is, FixTF2 is probably going to have to gamble on people without the same investment in the current status quo to take things to the necessary length to get answers from Valve. We'll just have to wait and see if these people actually emerge and if the resulting controversy produces results in time, or causes everything to crash and burn from too much controversy. TL:DR: Content creators should only be relied on to get things started and keep it going, not carrying any movement themselves. Unless all corners of the community take things far enough, I doubt any of this will work.
the other games succeeded because they had no sugarcoating. they see neglect, they make an outrage. TF2 on the other hand had way too many valve meat riding autists that cant stand the concept of "negativity". most of the content creators(or every big ones) are too pussy to say anything bad because it might hurt their wholesome chungus persona they built on themselves. if we want this one to succeed, either stop making this a autist youtuber jerk-off, make them drop the "wholesome" act or put someone actually capable of leading a boycott campaign in charge.
So glad I got to see you hit 100k in my lifetime. You deserve it. Not because of drama, but because you make amazing content. You unironically have one of the greatest channels on CZcams, and I hope the TF2 community at large can see that in the future. Congrats man.
People say Valve will just go “ok” and delist tf2 if we stop buying from the game, but honestly I don’t see that simply because that’s not how Valve works. Other bigger companies would likely do it, but Valve has been more consumer friendly than any of them. Valve has kept games like CS:1.6, CS:Source, TFC, and both Day of Defeats up despite being very old games with no dedicated servers. Valve actually bothered giving the game that helped get their foot in the market in the first place a 25th anniversary update and not delisting the very games, including ones that are single player, that gave the Unreal engine its name in the first place like Epic. (Valve did delist CSGO, but they didn’t just delist it with nothing left behind. You can still technically play it and they had CS 2 take its place.) However, I’m not gonna brush off the chance of it, but I don’t believe we should easily cave into the fear they’ll delist it because we retaliated by not finically supporting tf2. Like Zesty said, if they actually did delist tf2 in response, it would be a much bigger shit storm because it isn’t something like them.
That’s what I’m saying. We need other Valve Games Community make an alliance. We share the same goal. Better Anti Cheats. Fix the bots problem. We should band together and doing a massive protest. And we keep doing until Valve release a better Anti Cheats.
My personal problem with Shork is that he wanted to be the Messiah of TF2 during both savetf2s. In my opinion, he appeals to a wider audience outside tf2 and is bland all round I would much rather take weezy or uncle dane or thewhat as the face of the movement. If Lazy Purple was comfortable and active, he would be the perfect person
weezy's niche is MvM, not really TF2 in general, as seen in his refusal for a marketplace protest, i don't think he would be a good candidate. uncle dane would be a sorta-decent candidate until yesterday, where he leaked deadlock "gameplay" and prob got blacklisted from valve, letting a valve blacklist lead is not a good idea. lazypurple is the perfect face for this movement, his content appeals to casual and non-players, has significant popularity overall, and is really good storyteller/editor, tho he might be too passive. but that's the best case scenario. soysmith/soylarlight seems more likely unfortunately.
Whoever with the right optics is leading the charge in this campaign needs to be sure the message is clear and written precisely on the issues with no conflict of interest or fearing risk of loss from making proactive negative attention towards Valve about the issues. The people who are stirring this up again should take these criticisms to heart.
Four points to remember for fixtf2: - keep the focus on the problem - keep the pressure constant. - make the leader a clear figure - not just the youtubers, everyone should be able to take action and have an impact. (just like in the email plan, have collective instructions, do a boycott) quote for 2nd point: "The flame that burns Twice as bright burns half as long."
I am so happy to see more people use the Lao Tzu quote, i just throw it randomly in chat and Richter read it. this quote should be our creed when come to #fixtf2. HOLD THE FORT!
I heard a quote the other day that I think perfectly sums up the TF2 community’s problem as a whole: “Any community that gets its fun by pretending to be idiots will welcome real idiots and think they’re in good company.” That’s the impression I’m getting from this stream early on. The TF2 community itself is not unlike your average game of Dustbowl; a ragtag group of bumbling strangers who lack coordination and guidance, trying to work for the same goal, and failing miserably by the end.
I gave this comment to Weezy's video and while I know it's flawed, I do think it's better than what Weezy is trying to do. I'm pretty pessimistic when it comes to SaveTF2 in recent times. But I do agree we should try ONE more time when it comes to the movement. However I don't agree with the method of the movement. That being, just doing the same thing as last time. There needs to be a different strategy here. And I do believe there is a much better strategy than doing the same thing. Review Bombing. Now just stay with me here. In the past review bombing, while not always successful, can have much better results than anything SaveTF2 could achieve. There are three examples I'd like to use where review bombing had companies made changes for the better. Those examples being The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, EA's Battlefront II, and Helldivers II. For Skyrim, Bethesda thought it'd be a great idea that you have to pay for mods ON STEAM in order to use said mods. This had a lot of negative pushback and was obviously review bombed in order to show their disagreement with Bethesda's decision. The paid mod feature came out on April 24th, 2015. It only lasted three days before Valve themselves reversed the decision and refunded all players who bought the mods. For EA's Battlefront II...do I really need to say anything honestly. It's a tale as old as time by this point. People universally HATED what EA implemented to Battlefront II, and for good reason. There was barely any content, straight up lied about what they said they put into the game, and more importantly, pay to win loot boxes. So, the entire gaming community gave a lot of backlash towards EA, including review bombing. And guess what? Not only did EA gave the content and promises the community wanted. Not only did they axe the loot box system completely. But the whole situation was part of the reason why loot boxes were banned in multiple countries and why games nowadays rarely attempt that anymore. For Helldivers II, Sony tried making players link their PlayStation account after months of people buying the game and playing it. Making it a lot harder to have Valve accept refunds. That's already shitty enough but what makes the situation worse is that a lot of countries don't even have PlayStation, making it to where a lot of players are locked outside of the game itself. And lastly, players are giving their information away to Sony. The same company that had numerous security breaches, some even being one of the largest in recent years. So a huge amount of backlash was bound to happen, including a massive review bomb. And that exactly happened. Not only did this happen, but even the devs of their own game said to review bomb the game to show that this decision was a horrible idea. And Sony reverted the change to have the account requirement. Although many people still can't play the game because Sony went behind Valve's back and made it to where you can't buy the game in multiple countries. The examples that I've shown prove that review bombing can work for the better. But I know just saying "game bad" and leaving that as the negative review isn't helpful so what should we say for these reviews, simple. The problems we're facing right now. The bots, the cheaters, the bugs. All of that. The biggest reason why I believe that Valve did barely anything after SaveTF2 wasn't just because we all said we love this game and barely spoke about the problem. It's because that's all we did. We didn't leave negative reviews and explained our problems there. Because despite Valve seeing the hashtag go viral around the internet and being talked about. The majority of it was us saying that we love this game and Valve seeing that the reviews are very positive. Resulting in Valve posting the infamous tweet. If we all want actual change, this is probably the best option we have when it comes to getting Valve's attention. Remember, companies will notice those negative reviews, especially if the negative reviews outweigh the positive ones. If we do go forward with this movement, this is our best option. Put down a negative review and explain the problem the game is having with said review. And keep that review negative until Valve DOES something substantial. Not tweet something, does something. What do we got to lose?
Why dont we just reviewbomb tf2? We have valid reason to do so and it would be a really easy way of making the public (and valve) realize how bad it has gotten.
@@SenhorKoringa we could super easily flip the recent reviews from Overwhelmingly Positive to Mixed or even Overwhelmingly Negative. I could genuinely see that having an impact on valves negligence since it'd deter real humans from downloading tf2 or spending money on it
We cant be satisfied by a response or a promise. We have to keep the pressure on, in fact double down on it, once we get a message. Youre absolutely allowed to cry and bitch and moan until something youre entitled to gets done. Its not on us that things have gotten this bad.
Haven't watched the full stream but I feel if we're gonna save tf2, we oughta partner up with CS2 and L4d2. Valve has been neglectful of all of their titles between CS2'S cheaters, L4D2's DDOSING and TF2's bot problem. I'd rather we unite under one banner instead like #FIXYOURSHVALVE (no censors on or youtube blacklists my comments). To show people "Hey it's not just tf2, Valve is neglectful of ALL their titles". 1:28:52. Ayeee someone said exactly what I said.
Need a concise summary of this discussion uploaded on the main channel while the spotlight is on you from “Nobody’s Home” to steer this movement in the right direction. Might end up dead in the water otherwise.
As someone part of the Mordhau community, screaming and being angry about stuff can really make a difference, the devs fucked aome stuff up in a patch and were teasing a fix, and didn't add it for months, so we got angry and spammed then and their discord with gifs and other stuff to fix the fucking combat, and they did, some got banned, but they got the memo, right now the game is in a pretty good state it's just that it's a bit dead
yeah till you have to learn the 720 wessex triple noscope feint stab combo that you need 9206 hours to master. game immediately became unfun when the sweats optimized the fun out of it
TF2 will never be updated to fix its major issues because Valve has no financial or PR incentive to do so. TF2 fans continue playing the game no matter what dogshit Valve adds or how many bots infect it. "Rubbing Valve's nose in their mess" only works if they give a shit about what they look like to TF2 fans in the first place. They can't even stop bots and cheaters in CS2, a game with 20x the playerbase of TF2 that makes them infinitely more money.
48:30 Yea, it was supposed to be a protest, but it became warped into a pride movement. Let's not make that mistake again. Here is the problem we need to focus on: *Valve's neglect of Team Fortress 2 has caused severe damage to the game* (money farming bots, cheater bots, cheaters, corruption of its art style, new players' communication restrictions, thousands of bugs, lack of meaningful content updates such as a couple of new weapons, and balance issues) *and maybe even the community surrounding it* (Toxic positivity online, cheaters again, a more toxic and competitive/sweaty feel to current matchmaking and gameplay thanks to Meet Your Match,). *These problems can be fixed if we received a proper anti-cheat system, cleaned up farm-botters' exploitation of the economy, return to quickplay and give us the option to enable community servers in our search, delete competitive mode, fix the bugs, and fix the balance of the game* (airblast is too big, ullapool caber needs a rework and/or a damage buff, revamp the gas passer, give pyro a smoke grenade, give spy a throwing knife and a RUN button when disguised as a slower class, etc.).
the real culprits here are people funneling their real life money into buying $100 meme rings for a onetime serverwide notice gag so that valve gets whole ass benjamin franklins for doing nothing. these people pay to put their usernames on notice to everyone who is online. valve gets that money every time someone does this.
@@leonardo9259 him wanting to get savetf2 onto tv is crazy. like i get being passionate about it but who tf thinks the people who still watch the news would give a fuck?
Honestly now that CSGO is also facing neglect from Valve it could be the perfect chance to have a Valve financial boycott. TF2 by itself might not impact their wallet much but imagine a mass of Valve game players angry at their apathy and neglect deciding to stop the massive economies of CSGO and Dota 2 alongside TF2's. Hell imagine a mass negative united front of TF2, CSGO, Dota 2 and general Valve game fans hatebombing Deadlock whenever it gets officially revealed. Granted i don't know if Dota 2 is also facing neglect.
I think the Warowl would be a great ally to the tf2 community. the guy literally said how majority of players were bots. that was before the Zesty video and he was spot on when come to the bot problem. he even used similar method to zesty to get the bot numbers (of course not a deep data analysis like Zesty but he actually nailed it)
And whenever you ask people about the arguments he made on the video, or the vast amounts of research he made to obtain his data, they'll just move the goalpost or circle back to calling him a chud, lolicon, transphobe to avoid addressing the problems at hand. I've said this before somewhere, but Reddit/Twitter users would have TF2 be pillaged and vandalized than admit someone they dislike showed the undeniable truth they refuse to see
I am just happy that Turkey tom video helps clear Zesty name. now i see more people who actually part of the tf2 community (people who actually play the game not tourists on reddit or twitter) agree with zesty and more vocal about it.
Savetf2/fix tf2 need a new image to help people rally behind it. and that image got three clear instruction on how to help. the point of the image is to get people outside the tf2 sphere to know the problem. that tf2 in state of disrepair and got bots ruining games. how to help. eg: making post on twitter or any social media repost the image under the #fixtf2. and the third point is to contact Valve and independent game related channels/media. this should be a PR nightmare for Valve. also if you are tf2 tuber with any relevance. try to go on gaming podcast as guest to pitch out the issue. sadly, we as average tf2 fans/player don't have a lot of power but we still can help vvvv what we can do: 1- Email Valve devs but be respectful. the point is to send message that many are tired of the state of tf2. don't make us look bad. 2-Leave/update to negative review on Steam for tf2 under the hashtag and tell your honest reasoning why you did it. 3-Ignore the naysayers. keep the pressure up. Companies in general are slow rolling beast. they can't just fix anything immediately. too much bureaucracy and office politics. Don't act childish when things don't just work out. it take time to be fixed. properly as long as it was damaged but we can do it. keep the heat up for long time. 4-ask people in your friend group who not part of tf2 to spread the word, even if it just one post as solidarity with the tf2 community but make sure they address the problems: Aimbot bots auto headshot the player making the game unplayable - Casual mode is a mistake and we should revert to Quick Play - QoL for tf2 and fixing the bugs and improving the implementation of community fixes - Valve should be more transparent with the tf2 community and get one or three admin to do treadmill work of banning bots. #Fixtf2 #AddQuickPlayBack #RevertTF2toPreMYM
Well, good to know that I'm a 5%. Not that it means anything. I really hope we ALL TF2 players unite, we've separated ourselves for the dumbest reasons and forgot to stick together and actually become the big wave that we need. Or something like that
god zesty I love you but you are so overbearing when talking to another person, just constantly talking over this guy with no regard for what he's saying
Weezy mentioned in his video that boycotting Valve financially wouldn't be much help for "us", because they would take that revenue loss as sign to shut the gane down for good, but then I remember he's an avid MvM player... Yeah, no wonder he was against the boycott, if the item servers are shutdown how else is he supposed to dump loads of money on gambling, would he just go back to playing MvM for "fun" ? Kek lmao As long as Valve doesn't delist TF2 from Steam, people will still go back to play TF2 somehow, extra unlocks or not. Also, *WE AGREE*
"Don't boycott or Valve will shut down the game." Do these people ever question what will happen AFTER Valve shuts down TF2? Like as if Valve could get away with that.
Zesty, i genuinely love your content, your personality, and i look forward to see any video that you put out. To be honest I *stopped* watching because all the drama, because i just liked it when the funny texas man who likes anime boobs talks about this game I like, I'm super glad you finally hit 100K and I look forward to that part 2, I think that you are the future of tf2 youtube.
This time It should be named #FixTF2 and have list of problems to fix and nr 1 should be bots! If bots are fixed we need clear way to stop them by attacking again like BRING BACK PRICE ON TF2! 10$ its not much for awesome game but will stop bot creators from making another 1000k bots to shit on the game. Then Fix economy because its on fire! And final thing! Fix WORKSHOP! Because state of TF2 is like Bots fuck the game and VALVE have favourite group of creators that thier full time job is to make stuff for VALVE. There is no longer a competition! Just have name that give you more power over smaller creators who do thier best to make TF2 fitting items that look good and fit class... But naaa! Lets add another 10 cosmetics from same guy who made cosmetics for the last update and update after that! You want cool scout jacket? Soo sad! We gonna add another festive antlers for the 10th time!!!
@@rexyproductions1661 How many f2p actually stick with tf2. the moment the match get ruin with bot. i have hard time to believe they will not just uninstall tf2 after 2-3 matches of bots. this is not 2015 tf2. being a fp2 is a hassle and down right unacceptable. if the latest Zesty video showed anything. it mean we had the same core player base for years.
@@rexyproductions1661 10$ its not allot in 2024 m8! You already have premium upgrade to TF2 and such stuff ingame. If I had power I would make reverse update and removed all this matchmaking bullshit and put Community servers in front of serch bar and introduce quick play.
@@Infernoliza kids now a days pay for +20$ fortnite skins and somehow "10$" is too much, also i agree. we should revert MYM. it ruined tf2 and getting the 2014 Quickplay where you get put on vanilla tf2 servers will be great. even if it put you on empty server, we should get a message telling that QP is getting more players on the server and you should not leave.
What zesty is proposing requires middle management, or some kind of top down directive, something which valve's flat heirarchy cannot accomodate. Bad PR might lead to action, but it certainly won't result in a fundamental reshaping of valve as a buisness to reallocate employees to a project which they did not intend on working on. At this point I feel like the only hope is valve greenlighting community tf2 projects, which itself is a pretty sketchy proposition. Valve can be pretty salty, just be careful.
U think I think a lot of what said about Valve's structure or even community aspects is just overanalyzed bullshit even doe it's not, this is obviously because I'm a weary (retarded) person. but yeah I agree, I think they should hire guys to just sit there all day and ban botnets for TF2 instead of just being a developer that bans them while on the game. Somebody definitely would love to do that as their job, hopefully they don't get laid off for wasting resources and burning cash. Contract me Valve, I don't know a lick of computers but I am your man and I work hard.
there is literally no reason why a combination of prime matchmaking, VACNet, trust factor, overwatch or any variation therein wouldn't almost completely resolve the bot crisis, let alone updating VAC, steamworks, any kind of functioning anticheat. the "treadmill problem" talk is just an excuse to be lazy. maintaining an online multiplayer game is and of itself a "treadmill problem", you need to maintain them for them to function. billions of dollars and they cannot spare even a cent to fix tf2. i will not be purchasing another game on steam let alone supporting any other valve properties until something is done about tf2, as i think boycotting tf2 alone isn't enough. i have no problem playing my massive backlog and torrenting whatever else i need. if you love this game, consider doing the same.
I hate the fact i discovered about valve doing this deadlock shit when they literally got a "hero" arcade shooter that ran VERY fucking well. if they just remade tf2 it would be a bigger success than this shit. I also fucking hate that my friends welcome it with open arms. overwatch was fun for like a week max.
I think the key problem is that Valve makes a lot of money from farming and trading bots, and they can't differentiate aimbots from those moneymaking bots. Until there's a large public cry against Valve, or a class action suit, they won't fix the issue.
The only way i see save tf2 2 working is if there was some sort of steam exodus. not people deleting their accounts or something stupid but people not buying games on steam. The best case is 1) link up with csgo2 player, I'm not to in the know but they are having a hacker problem as well. 2) Pick a date, my idea would be a steam winter sale when valve is expecting to make the big bucks and both the communities review bomb their respective games to hell much like the hell divers community did for their game. 3) Stop buying games . The long time meme is "hahaha i have a million games ill NEVER PLAY" so we stop buying them. On mass people stop buying from the steam store, play the games in your back log and if you REALLY NEED TO CONSUME go to epic games or another game store. Now this is the important part, if valve does respond we need to make it know that we will do it again next sale should some amount of progress not be made. I know this sounds like a reddit pipe dream but i really feel that an actual shot at this would be something along these lines. Also i'm typing this before watching because it is my duty as a youtube commenter to do so.
At 1:55:30 you discuss like new people coming in and I think another huge barrier to new players is is insanely awful default settings. The game is nearly unplayable without a decent config and even a lot of people who play regularly don’t quite understand just how bad they are. I think just updating a lot of the default settings would help a ton if not for the bots
Opinion: Valve can't solve bots long term - the reason they are so prevalent is because they launched massively anti-f2p update 8 years ago and just left the game like that. F2p have no incentive to stay and old players will move on and get a job, life and stop playing. We are riding declining player numbers and it should be the priority to turn around. There needs to be an aknowledgment in Valve's failure in game design: they treated TF2 like an esports game and it broke. They put a goldfish on leash, took it to a dog park, and now they got dead fish in their hands. Casual is a failure and most of the draconian changes to base gameplay they implemented needs to be rolled back.
i disagree with the idea that for this to work we need some kind of strong leader to guide the masses, people can pull this kind of thing off without some figurehead as long as everyone is able to stay organized and focused on accurate rhetoric and a clear goal.
Richter doesn't workout as a co-host for the stream, i understand he got cut off alot but rich had a passive aggressive word usage when zesty pissed him off, gaslight him when he put words in zesty mouth and repeating the same thoughts already elaborated and rewording what zesty just said. But hey it's zesty's stream what am i say.
how do you incorporate TF2 CS2 and Left 4 death players in one movement. IDK. I also do not know how Valve will lunch a 6v6 game and have still same problems with bots. What a shit show. BTW if Valve cannot fix bots in TF2 and CS2 .. then in that new game upon free to play you know what is gonna happen. I give it 4 years.
I don't think this is going to go anywhere. I genuinely don't. What i see is that people keep asking to save TF2, but i don't see ANYONE providing actual viable solution as to how. As far as i'm concerned - this crisis is unsolvable. Realistically: what can they do? They have no names, they have no addresses. They have NO vector of attack, at all, at least from where i'm standing. Best they can do is un-F2P the game and forever lock out trading leaving only Steam Market features intact. That is the most Scorched Earth policy they can pull, and i don't know how willing the community to deal with that (for the record: i'm on board). Another option, uh... Hire some kind of internet-detectives to find the bot hosters?... Create a whole department dedicated to just this? Costing crazy amounts of money for potentially no effect at all? I just... From pure business point its just not worth it. Its not worth to invest into this to save a 10+ old game. This is on top of the fact that cheating / hacking / botting issues seem to be escalating across gaming industry. There have been so many major controversies regarding this or that game being absolutely infested with cheaters, Apex Legends live tournament hack, etc... I think we've simply entered a dark age of gaming where all PvP games are now just cursed with this nonsense and there is no hope in sight except for installing all of the Kernel-Level protective software and PRAYING it will work and won't backfire on you in any way. I am utterly black pilled on all this. It keeps getting worse with each year and i have not seen a single idea besides giving full hardware access to some IT company in California to prove you're a good boy. Just... Blergh.
@@xvyz.. We'd all be surprised. Internet has been around for a while now. There are people who grew up with this stuff as baseline, and know how to REALLY hide themselves on the internet and no money will help you there. Its been 5+ years and there's not even a whiff. There was a "doxing incident" , but it appears it went absolutely nowhere..
the dude on ur stream is so annoying. he keeps interrupting you and making inconsequential points and gets mad at you when ur trying to make ur own point on ur own stream.
*yawn* I don't care about casual, 2cities mann up seems to have no bots aside from cheaters who are like "hurr durr don't kick me" if people refuse to populate community servers instead of relying on casual we are not gonna go anywhere if you can't fix stupid then nothings gonna change
then bring Quickplay. 2014 one. i been advocating for quick play for years now. community server browser is easy to use but no one will join an empty server and wait god know how long until someone join him.
Listen I dont agree with Zesty's political views but it's very funny how the guy thats considered a right wing psyop is willing to call out anti-consumer practices and antagonize the big company, this guy nows bullshit when he sees it
I have a possible idea for some warplan, we could contact popular CZcamsrs like Moist Critical and Markiplier and hell, even MrBeast if we can. and get them to cover it on account of the movement making an attempt to save the best game on earth. Doing this could create a wave of coverage possibly. It might not work but I think it has some potential.
@@doyouknoedawae it doesn't. that would involve federal investigations into the company, and valves first thought wouldn't be to fix tf2. it would be to remove the ability to upload sprays and decals entirely.
It could lead to very adverse effects, like how Valve's respose to the BLM movement back in 2020 was to censor the game chat through a toggle and punish F2Ps from doing anything until they spent money on the game.
@@zestyalt Don't play dumb, Zesty. You know damn well that you're only talking about SaveTF2 because you need the money from your stupid fanbase as you regurgitate talking points from years ago.
Moral of the story is dont let the wrong voices say the wrong things and always focus on the POINT of the movement
We need someone to stand on business.
The hatespeech bot angle was a horrible angle for several reasons.
Even if it worked and it got journalists attention, by making the complaint be the *words* that the bots were saying and not their actions, you give valve the easiest out possible where they just add a strict wordfilter and ban people who get caught by it too often and then go to those very same journalists for ass pats about how they're doing their part to fight hate online.
Even if the desperate attempt for journalist attention paid off and valve DID do more than just censor the game further, they'd still do the above and completely ruin a significant part of the game's character and personality. It wouldn't be just the bots valve targeted and it wouldn't be just shock value trolling that they'd censor. They'd go the easiest route and get an undersized staff of volunteers with free reign to crack down on all offensive or rude language. Just look at how the steam community forums are moderated, the only thing stopping everyone from being banned all the time is the massive understaffing the forums have.
Tyler is a moron.
this guy gets it. and steam at the time already got in game filter system added. Instead Valve fixing the game. they activate their anti free speech word filter. and called it a day "we did it, we muted the f2ps". Tyler have done more damage to the tf2 community, more than the bot. he IS worse than the bot. remember creators tf2 ? or how he streamed UNRELEASED WORKING VR version of Half life Alyx. that was few week away from launch. i swear, he is the biggest reason why Valve no longer communicate with us. he should do a wamo and leave the tf2 community honestly.
Knowing Tyler and his love for stuff like wordfilters, it would be a win-win for him.
>Tyler is a moron.
I don't think he is. I think he knew exactly what he was doing.
richter respect your elders please!
yeah why is this zoomie such a little asshole lol
Timestamps below:
0:26 richter introduction
3:03 short weezy video note + fixtf2 name:
5:03 purpose of the hashtag
9:35-17:32 start of the conversation - squimjim
- got the ball rolling, didn't really take the leader spot but was the first, did it right and it's admirable.
12:10 some articles as result:
- articles pointed at the problem, SJ did a good job.
14:58-17:16 short note about valve new game deadlock
- overall seems unappealing.
17:35-24:25 tyler mcvicker
followed after SJ, tried to bring the bots swearing issue to grab journals attention (good), but missed the point and also retaliated after a slight mess he made.
21:43-23:06 email campaign doesn't endanger workers
24:36-28:46 medic voice actor tweet
26:17 is botting crisis better after savetf2 (38:01 results)
30:01-33:20 someordinarygamers video
34:04-35:40 richter overtime video
35:45 savetf2 reddit image
- it did a good thing, but the focus shifted from bot problem to showing valve love.
38:34 important part
40:27 boycott isn't about monney, it's about message
42:29 analyzing the savetf2 image
45:31 shork's reddit comment
46:29 legal notice.
47:47 important part
53:17 shork's importance as the leader
55:17 peaceful should also include negative
55:59 savetf2 had a 2nd iteration? who lead it?
57:37 the spy guy who went to valve
58:45 THE VALVE TWEET
1:01:02 zesty without beard
1:04:32 repeating the purpose of boycotting
1:06:56 jerma's short savetf2 reaction
1:09:18-1:11:26 moistcritical video
1:10:19 gaylord hotels
1:11:56 CAT (her name is echo)
1:12:53 when the pressure stopped
1:14:41 ueakcrash workshop open letter
1:17:29 important part - lack of pressure on valve
1:20:38 shork's conflict of interests
1:22:12 what leader should fixtf2 have? (it's a collective)
1:28:53 cooperate with other games (CS2 L4D)
1:33:21-1:34:58 richter alone with chat
1:35:24 repeat boycott purpose with a story (lvl100)
1:39:20 shork's and weezy's risk with boycott
1:45:00 weezy's WoW story had a boycott
1:47:13 update against bots was planned before savetf2
1:53:43 zesty's long videos are part of his job's skillset
2:00:38 reaching 100k subs
Ty king
I just realize. Remember Zesty was talkin about how Workshop creators like to make some kind of new gamemode like VSH and Zombie infection, and just forgot about it RIGHT after it made into the game and they just making new project right after
It reminds me of, guess who, VALVE itself!
*Create new revolutionary game > Stop supporting game > Move to next project > Create new revolutionary game*
They do that all the time, from Half life to Dota and CS2
Fuck your revolutions VALVE, WE WANT WORKING GAMES
The majority of their old games were abandoned far quicker than TF2, I mean fucking look at DOD:S and HL:S, both of those games were abandoned despite probably requiring support
@@tigersympathiser2265 DOD:S is fine.
Moral of the story: Shork ruined everything lol
How so?
singlehandedly responsible for making tf2 reddit
@@orjustcheese How so?
@@hezler4430 ?os woH
45:29
Make it a PR nightmare for Deadlock
This is a good idea. When Deadlock finally get's announced, hijack the hype and make it about how TF2 is abandoned as much as possible. It sounds like a horrible PR nightmare.
deadlock is going to be a PR nightmare no matter what because valve is incompetent
No because then people will say "Oh look at the TF2 fans, making everything about themselves again." We gotta stick to our turf, don't care about Valorant 2.
Deadlock is gonna be a PR nightmare the moment it drops lol Valve is so far detached from the vision they once had that I highly doubt it will be anything but another half baked rehashing of the same shtick weve been seeing in modern gaming as of late
Calling it now. This new FixTF2 movement that the content creators are planning will be half assed and ineffective.
If past gaming controversies where players were able to successfully pressure a company to either make changes or get answers for the future of the game(WoW, Battlefront lootboxes, Sim City offline mode, Mass Effect 3's ending, Destiny 2 throttling EXP, Diablo Immortal needing a statement that PC/Consoles weren't being abandoned for the series, Maplestory, though this one hasn't produced a change yet as far as I know) are to be learned from, these cases show that successful boycotts or community campaigns against larger companies need to either have a visible impact/threat to profits, or be a PR nightmare/pose a significant risk to the company or series reputation. Valve does not have a close enough relationship with the community where something like a petition, trending hashtag, or statements from a few content creators will be enough to get answers from a community manager or someone else at the company.
If Wheezy, other content creators, and the community are already deciding to take trying to organize a financial boycott off the table, treating it as some sort of nuclear option, ignoring the conflict of interest from some of these creators producing content relying on purchasing items from Valve, that's already one major possible means of getting Valve's attention gone. Granted, something like this is probably only going to be effective if organized for a seasonal update, but if it's already off the table when the movement is likely to be at its height, that's not a good sign.
All that leaves then is causing a PR disaster for Valve. While I'm not saying people should raise hell in every corner of the internet or do anything crazy like harass individual employees, the things that helped get an answer last time were not making polite posts on social media, signing petitions, or internet slacktivism. It was putting the problem directly in Valve's face and in some cases, testing the line of what the average person might consider acceptable (Showing up at their office), to put the issue in Valve's face in such as way that they can't just ignore the problem until it goes away.
I don't know what people like Wheezy, Shork, and other content creators have in the works. I don't know if they're getting in contact with big names outside of the community to help spread attention, or if they have some other angle they intend to take instead of just focusing on the bot problem, or if they intend to time everything for the summer update/any announcements about Deadlock. I also have doubts about a second push from the community gathering as much outside attention as it did before. But I don't think people should rely on content creators to do anything more than get the ball rolling. Concerns about remaining acceptably polite, following some unspoken etiquette of how to conduct themselves for their community, not burning any bridges, and ensuring that their content has a future, will likely hold all of them back far from the point of being able to effectively pressure a company that is the size of Valve.
If they can't provide results again due to a weak message, poor organization, bad timing, or failing to sustain the movement for a significant amount of time, we shouldn't be surprised if the initial message becomes weakened as people try other directions or attract controversy due to pushing things even further. As much as I hate to say it, depending on what the initial plan is, FixTF2 is probably going to have to gamble on people without the same investment in the current status quo to take things to the necessary length to get answers from Valve. We'll just have to wait and see if these people actually emerge and if the resulting controversy produces results in time, or causes everything to crash and burn from too much controversy.
TL:DR: Content creators should only be relied on to get things started and keep it going, not carrying any movement themselves. Unless all corners of the community take things far enough, I doubt any of this will work.
the other games succeeded because they had no sugarcoating. they see neglect, they make an outrage.
TF2 on the other hand had way too many valve meat riding autists that cant stand the concept of "negativity". most of the content creators(or every big ones) are too pussy to say anything bad because it might hurt their wholesome chungus persona they built on themselves.
if we want this one to succeed, either stop making this a autist youtuber jerk-off, make them drop the "wholesome" act or put someone actually capable of leading a boycott campaign in charge.
knowing shork chances are hes pulling the same card again and everything is going to spin to a whole pack of nothing
So glad I got to see you hit 100k in my lifetime. You deserve it. Not because of drama, but because you make amazing content. You unironically have one of the greatest channels on CZcams, and I hope the TF2 community at large can see that in the future. Congrats man.
Boycott deadlock to start
People say Valve will just go “ok” and delist tf2 if we stop buying from the game, but honestly I don’t see that simply because that’s not how Valve works. Other bigger companies would likely do it, but Valve has been more consumer friendly than any of them. Valve has kept games like CS:1.6, CS:Source, TFC, and both Day of Defeats up despite being very old games with no dedicated servers. Valve actually bothered giving the game that helped get their foot in the market in the first place a 25th anniversary update and not delisting the very games, including ones that are single player, that gave the Unreal engine its name in the first place like Epic. (Valve did delist CSGO, but they didn’t just delist it with nothing left behind. You can still technically play it and they had CS 2 take its place.)
However, I’m not gonna brush off the chance of it, but I don’t believe we should easily cave into the fear they’ll delist it because we retaliated by not finically supporting tf2. Like Zesty said, if they actually did delist tf2 in response, it would be a much bigger shit storm because it isn’t something like them.
That’s what I’m saying. We need other Valve Games Community make an alliance. We share the same goal. Better Anti Cheats. Fix the bots problem. We should band together and doing a massive protest. And we keep doing until Valve release a better Anti Cheats.
yes dude. CS2 players are fucking pissed if we made it #getittogethervalve or something like that there would be way more rallying
My personal problem with Shork is that he wanted to be the Messiah of TF2 during both savetf2s. In my opinion, he appeals to a wider audience outside tf2 and is bland all round
I would much rather take weezy or uncle dane or thewhat as the face of the movement. If Lazy Purple was comfortable and active, he would be the perfect person
weezy's niche is MvM, not really TF2 in general, as seen in his refusal for a marketplace protest, i don't think he would be a good candidate. uncle dane would be a sorta-decent candidate until yesterday, where he leaked deadlock "gameplay" and prob got blacklisted from valve, letting a valve blacklist lead is not a good idea. lazypurple is the perfect face for this movement, his content appeals to casual and non-players, has significant popularity overall, and is really good storyteller/editor, tho he might be too passive. but that's the best case scenario. soysmith/soylarlight seems more likely unfortunately.
"all of Valve's live service games are being neglected" and they wanna release a new one, or at least are working on
Shork be like: "SaveTF2 by letting me hang out with the voice actors and re recording the Meet the Team vids"
at least we got some leaks. the power of contacting people.
DAT SHORK IS A BLOODY TRAITAR
That Shork is not one of us
Mahatma Shork, but his peaceful protest ruined everything
Whoever with the right optics is leading the charge in this campaign needs to be sure the message is clear and written precisely on the issues with no conflict of interest or fearing risk of loss from making proactive negative attention towards Valve about the issues. The people who are stirring this up again should take these criticisms to heart.
Four points to remember for fixtf2:
- keep the focus on the problem
- keep the pressure constant.
- make the leader a clear figure
- not just the youtubers, everyone should be able to take action and have an impact. (just like in the email plan, have collective instructions, do a boycott)
quote for 2nd point: "The flame that burns Twice as bright burns half as long."
I am so happy to see more people use the Lao Tzu quote, i just throw it randomly in chat and Richter read it. this quote should be our creed when come to #fixtf2. HOLD THE FORT!
The idea of fixing tf2 by rallying with other game communities like cs2, l4d2, etc. if we do that, should we just call it #FixValve ?
I heard a quote the other day that I think perfectly sums up the TF2 community’s problem as a whole:
“Any community that gets its fun by pretending to be idiots will welcome real idiots and think they’re in good company.”
That’s the impression I’m getting from this stream early on. The TF2 community itself is not unlike your average game of Dustbowl; a ragtag group of bumbling strangers who lack coordination and guidance, trying to work for the same goal, and failing miserably by the end.
I gave this comment to Weezy's video and while I know it's flawed, I do think it's better than what Weezy is trying to do.
I'm pretty pessimistic when it comes to SaveTF2 in recent times. But I do agree we should try ONE more time when it comes to the movement. However I don't agree with the method of the movement. That being, just doing the same thing as last time. There needs to be a different strategy here. And I do believe there is a much better strategy than doing the same thing. Review Bombing. Now just stay with me here.
In the past review bombing, while not always successful, can have much better results than anything SaveTF2 could achieve. There are three examples I'd like to use where review bombing had companies made changes for the better. Those examples being The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, EA's Battlefront II, and Helldivers II.
For Skyrim, Bethesda thought it'd be a great idea that you have to pay for mods ON STEAM in order to use said mods. This had a lot of negative pushback and was obviously review bombed in order to show their disagreement with Bethesda's decision. The paid mod feature came out on April 24th, 2015. It only lasted three days before Valve themselves reversed the decision and refunded all players who bought the mods.
For EA's Battlefront II...do I really need to say anything honestly. It's a tale as old as time by this point. People universally HATED what EA implemented to Battlefront II, and for good reason. There was barely any content, straight up lied about what they said they put into the game, and more importantly, pay to win loot boxes. So, the entire gaming community gave a lot of backlash towards EA, including review bombing. And guess what? Not only did EA gave the content and promises the community wanted. Not only did they axe the loot box system completely. But the whole situation was part of the reason why loot boxes were banned in multiple countries and why games nowadays rarely attempt that anymore.
For Helldivers II, Sony tried making players link their PlayStation account after months of people buying the game and playing it. Making it a lot harder to have Valve accept refunds. That's already shitty enough but what makes the situation worse is that a lot of countries don't even have PlayStation, making it to where a lot of players are locked outside of the game itself. And lastly, players are giving their information away to Sony. The same company that had numerous security breaches, some even being one of the largest in recent years. So a huge amount of backlash was bound to happen, including a massive review bomb. And that exactly happened. Not only did this happen, but even the devs of their own game said to review bomb the game to show that this decision was a horrible idea. And Sony reverted the change to have the account requirement. Although many people still can't play the game because Sony went behind Valve's back and made it to where you can't buy the game in multiple countries.
The examples that I've shown prove that review bombing can work for the better. But I know just saying "game bad" and leaving that as the negative review isn't helpful so what should we say for these reviews, simple. The problems we're facing right now. The bots, the cheaters, the bugs. All of that. The biggest reason why I believe that Valve did barely anything after SaveTF2 wasn't just because we all said we love this game and barely spoke about the problem. It's because that's all we did. We didn't leave negative reviews and explained our problems there. Because despite Valve seeing the hashtag go viral around the internet and being talked about. The majority of it was us saying that we love this game and Valve seeing that the reviews are very positive. Resulting in Valve posting the infamous tweet.
If we all want actual change, this is probably the best option we have when it comes to getting Valve's attention. Remember, companies will notice those negative reviews, especially if the negative reviews outweigh the positive ones. If we do go forward with this movement, this is our best option. Put down a negative review and explain the problem the game is having with said review. And keep that review negative until Valve DOES something substantial. Not tweet something, does something.
What do we got to lose?
LET DO THIS LAD! I AGREE WITH YOU
Holy read more wall of text jumpscare
@@SX_7 tldr we could very very easily taint TF2s public image by leaving negative reviews because of the game being unplayable 60% of the time
Your sanity.
But hey, go off.
@@kyperactive shut it lad, quite being a letdown
Why dont we just reviewbomb tf2? We have valid reason to do so and it would be a really easy way of making the public (and valve) realize how bad it has gotten.
people reviewed it already and you can’t redo your review i think
@@SenhorKoringa you can, I did this morning lol
@@SenhorKoringa we could super easily flip the recent reviews from Overwhelmingly Positive to Mixed or even Overwhelmingly Negative. I could genuinely see that having an impact on valves negligence since it'd deter real humans from downloading tf2 or spending money on it
Most of the reviews will be mark as irrelevant and it'll stay at around 90% positive reviews. War Thunder pulled the same bullshit.
@@ColonelKlink1965 recent reviews are listed separately
We cant be satisfied by a response or a promise. We have to keep the pressure on, in fact double down on it, once we get a message. Youre absolutely allowed to cry and bitch and moan until something youre entitled to gets done. Its not on us that things have gotten this bad.
Yeah! YOU KNOW WHAT YEAH!
I THINK I WANT A NEW ANTICHEAT THAT DOESNT SUCK SHIT
Haven't watched the full stream but I feel if we're gonna save tf2, we oughta partner up with CS2 and L4d2. Valve has been neglectful of all of their titles between CS2'S cheaters, L4D2's DDOSING and TF2's bot problem. I'd rather we unite under one banner instead like #FIXYOURSHVALVE (no censors on or youtube blacklists my comments). To show people "Hey it's not just tf2, Valve is neglectful of ALL their titles".
1:28:52. Ayeee someone said exactly what I said.
leave L4D2 out of this tbh
We should wait for Deadslop's release/announcement to make a big protest, in collaboration with CS2 fans :3
Need a concise summary of this discussion uploaded on the main channel while the spotlight is on you from “Nobody’s Home” to steer this movement in the right direction. Might end up dead in the water otherwise.
As someone part of the Mordhau community, screaming and being angry about stuff can really make a difference, the devs fucked aome stuff up in a patch and were teasing a fix, and didn't add it for months, so we got angry and spammed then and their discord with gifs and other stuff to fix the fucking combat, and they did, some got banned, but they got the memo, right now the game is in a pretty good state it's just that it's a bit dead
yeah till you have to learn the 720 wessex triple noscope feint stab combo that you need 9206 hours to master. game immediately became unfun when the sweats optimized the fun out of it
@@AN-xi1vk as a former comp player, yes, yes you are right
I mean... those devs probably gave a damn about their game.
Valve, clearly not so much.
@@kyperactive Oh yeah, Crush sure did give a damn, in fact he cared so much he lost to Stouty and nerfed kicks because of it
@@kyperactive ehhhhhhhhhhhh, let's just say it was complicated
TF2 will never be updated to fix its major issues because Valve has no financial or PR incentive to do so. TF2 fans continue playing the game no matter what dogshit Valve adds or how many bots infect it. "Rubbing Valve's nose in their mess" only works if they give a shit about what they look like to TF2 fans in the first place. They can't even stop bots and cheaters in CS2, a game with 20x the playerbase of TF2 that makes them infinitely more money.
As a wise man once said, “when life gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade, get mad!”
1:01:24 Why beardless Zesty looks like my dad 😭😭
he looks like if mark zuckerberg was a human
48:30 Yea, it was supposed to be a protest, but it became warped into a pride movement. Let's not make that mistake again.
Here is the problem we need to focus on:
*Valve's neglect of Team Fortress 2 has caused severe damage to the game* (money farming bots, cheater bots, cheaters, corruption of its art style, new players' communication restrictions, thousands of bugs, lack of meaningful content updates such as a couple of new weapons, and balance issues) *and maybe even the community surrounding it* (Toxic positivity online, cheaters again, a more toxic and competitive/sweaty feel to current matchmaking and gameplay thanks to Meet Your Match,).
*These problems can be fixed if we received a proper anti-cheat system, cleaned up farm-botters' exploitation of the economy, return to quickplay and give us the option to enable community servers in our search, delete competitive mode, fix the bugs, and fix the balance of the game* (airblast is too big, ullapool caber needs a rework and/or a damage buff, revamp the gas passer, give pyro a smoke grenade, give spy a throwing knife and a RUN button when disguised as a slower class, etc.).
based. this what we NEED.
also
#Fixtf2
#AddQuickPlayBack
#RevertTF2toPreMYM
#ReworkSniper
the real culprits here are people funneling their real life money into buying $100 meme rings for a onetime serverwide notice gag so that valve gets whole ass benjamin franklins for doing nothing. these people pay to put their usernames on notice to everyone who is online. valve gets that money every time someone does this.
In mild defense of deadlock, it seems like it is just icefrog being icefrog from my understanding.
Congrats on 100k on main channel
And congrats on 10k on THIS alt channel
WE AGREE
and grats on 100k o7
Let Richter talk for more than ten seconds challenge (difficulty: impossible)
Richter gets extremely unhinged when he is allowed to rant on
#JusticeForRichter 😔✊
Ritcher is like those highschool volcano experiments, if you don't pace the powder it gets messy, gotta put some breaks to it
@@leonardo9259 him wanting to get savetf2 onto tv is crazy. like i get being passionate about it but who tf thinks the people who still watch the news would give a fuck?
Loved retention overtime in this stream!
shold we start to do negative review on steam like helldiver 2 ? cold that help ?
The power duo of Jesus and Overtime is a potent one. Hope to see this combo many more times into the future.
why is everybody calling this SaveTF2 2? this is Save TF2 3, since this is the third time they're gonna try that
Wasn't able to catch it live, but a good watch while munching on dinner. God bless lads.
#ZESTYWASRIGHT
Looking fresh, Zesty.🎉
You look like Jerma with the beard
Good video man I enjoyed the stream alot
This would be lovely in video form.
They really gotta hear this yo.
I don't know what kind of topic would be appropriate, but it would make for a fun episode if you could bring BigB on stream.
we agrtee
Honestly now that CSGO is also facing neglect from Valve it could be the perfect chance to have a Valve financial boycott. TF2 by itself might not impact their wallet much but imagine a mass of Valve game players angry at their apathy and neglect deciding to stop the massive economies of CSGO and Dota 2 alongside TF2's. Hell imagine a mass negative united front of TF2, CSGO, Dota 2 and general Valve game fans hatebombing Deadlock whenever it gets officially revealed. Granted i don't know if Dota 2 is also facing neglect.
I think the Warowl would be a great ally to the tf2 community. the guy literally said how majority of players were bots. that was before the Zesty video and he was spot on when come to the bot problem. he even used similar method to zesty to get the bot numbers (of course not a deep data analysis like Zesty but he actually nailed it)
Whats so funny is when Zest uploaded his video people outright were like "uhm, wow, Zesty is racis? No thanks"
And whenever you ask people about the arguments he made on the video, or the vast amounts of research he made to obtain his data, they'll just move the goalpost or circle back to calling him a chud, lolicon, transphobe to avoid addressing the problems at hand.
I've said this before somewhere, but Reddit/Twitter users would have TF2 be pillaged and vandalized than admit someone they dislike showed the undeniable truth they refuse to see
I am just happy that Turkey tom video helps clear Zesty name. now i see more people who actually part of the tf2 community (people who actually play the game not tourists on reddit or twitter) agree with zesty and more vocal about it.
Savetf2/fix tf2 need a new image to help people rally behind it. and that image got three clear instruction on how to help. the point of the image is to get people outside the tf2 sphere to know the problem. that tf2 in state of disrepair and got bots ruining games. how to help. eg: making post on twitter or any social media repost the image under the #fixtf2. and the third point is to contact Valve and independent game related channels/media. this should be a PR nightmare for Valve.
also if you are tf2 tuber with any relevance. try to go on gaming podcast as guest to pitch out the issue. sadly, we as average tf2 fans/player don't have a lot of power but we still can help vvvv
what we can do:
1- Email Valve devs but be respectful. the point is to send message that many are tired of the state of tf2. don't make us look bad.
2-Leave/update to negative review on Steam for tf2 under the hashtag and tell your honest reasoning why you did it.
3-Ignore the naysayers. keep the pressure up. Companies in general are slow rolling beast. they can't just fix anything immediately. too much bureaucracy and office politics. Don't act childish when things don't just work out. it take time to be fixed. properly as long as it was damaged but we can do it. keep the heat up for long time.
4-ask people in your friend group who not part of tf2 to spread the word, even if it just one post as solidarity with the tf2 community but make sure they address the problems: Aimbot bots auto headshot the player making the game unplayable - Casual mode is a mistake and we should revert to Quick Play - QoL for tf2 and fixing the bugs and improving the implementation of community fixes - Valve should be more transparent with the tf2 community and get one or three admin to do treadmill work of banning bots.
#Fixtf2
#AddQuickPlayBack
#RevertTF2toPreMYM
Well, good to know that I'm a 5%. Not that it means anything.
I really hope we ALL TF2 players unite, we've separated ourselves for the dumbest reasons and forgot to stick together and actually become the big wave that we need. Or something like that
god zesty I love you but you are so overbearing when talking to another person, just constantly talking over this guy with no regard for what he's saying
he only does this with ritcher because if he lets him rant bad things tend to happen
Weezy mentioned in his video that boycotting Valve financially wouldn't be much help for "us", because they would take that revenue loss as sign to shut the gane down for good, but then I remember he's an avid MvM player...
Yeah, no wonder he was against the boycott, if the item servers are shutdown how else is he supposed to dump loads of money on gambling, would he just go back to playing MvM for "fun" ? Kek lmao
As long as Valve doesn't delist TF2 from Steam, people will still go back to play TF2 somehow, extra unlocks or not.
Also, *WE AGREE*
he's wrong too, if tf2s economy goes down then CSGO's economy would go down too. and valve cares about that.
I don't see how boycotting will do anything
@@pardnergaming2136 how are they related? not undermining your point, genuinely curious.
@@thevoid5863 people trade tf2 and csgo items a lot. Usually trading tf2 for csgo items or vice-versa. One goes down, the other will take a huge hit.
"Don't boycott or Valve will shut down the game." Do these people ever question what will happen AFTER Valve shuts down TF2?
Like as if Valve could get away with that.
Zesty, i genuinely love your content, your personality, and i look forward to see any video that you put out. To be honest I *stopped* watching because all the drama, because i just liked it when the funny texas man who likes anime boobs talks about this game I like, I'm super glad you finally hit 100K and I look forward to that part 2, I think that you are the future of tf2 youtube.
I really dislike people who try their best to a appear as clean and potentially marketable as possible, a.k.a Shork.
This time It should be named #FixTF2 and have list of problems to fix and nr 1 should be bots! If bots are fixed we need clear way to stop them by attacking again like BRING BACK PRICE ON TF2! 10$ its not much for awesome game but will stop bot creators from making another 1000k bots to shit on the game. Then Fix economy because its on fire! And final thing! Fix WORKSHOP! Because state of TF2 is like Bots fuck the game and VALVE have favourite group of creators that thier full time job is to make stuff for VALVE. There is no longer a competition! Just have name that give you more power over smaller creators who do thier best to make TF2 fitting items that look good and fit class... But naaa! Lets add another 10 cosmetics from same guy who made cosmetics for the last update and update after that! You want cool scout jacket? Soo sad! We gonna add another festive antlers for the 10th time!!!
10$ price would make tf2 die even faster than it is now
Making tf2 10$ will end it so bad😭
@@rexyproductions1661 How many f2p actually stick with tf2. the moment the match get ruin with bot. i have hard time to believe they will not just uninstall tf2 after 2-3 matches of bots. this is not 2015 tf2. being a fp2 is a hassle and down right unacceptable. if the latest Zesty video showed anything. it mean we had the same core player base for years.
@@rexyproductions1661 10$ its not allot in 2024 m8! You already have premium upgrade to TF2 and such stuff ingame. If I had power I would make reverse update and removed all this matchmaking bullshit and put Community servers in front of serch bar and introduce quick play.
@@Infernoliza kids now a days pay for +20$ fortnite skins and somehow "10$" is too much, also i agree. we should revert MYM. it ruined tf2 and getting the 2014 Quickplay where you get put on vanilla tf2 servers will be great. even if it put you on empty server, we should get a message telling that QP is getting more players on the server and you should not leave.
What zesty is proposing requires middle management, or some kind of top down directive, something which valve's flat heirarchy cannot accomodate. Bad PR might lead to action, but it certainly won't result in a fundamental reshaping of valve as a buisness to reallocate employees to a project which they did not intend on working on. At this point I feel like the only hope is valve greenlighting community tf2 projects, which itself is a pretty sketchy proposition. Valve can be pretty salty, just be careful.
U think I think a lot of what said about Valve's structure or even community aspects is just overanalyzed bullshit even doe it's not, this is obviously because I'm a weary (retarded) person. but yeah I agree, I think they should hire guys to just sit there all day and ban botnets for TF2 instead of just being a developer that bans them while on the game. Somebody definitely would love to do that as their job, hopefully they don't get laid off for wasting resources and burning cash. Contract me Valve, I don't know a lick of computers but I am your man and I work hard.
there is literally no reason why a combination of prime matchmaking, VACNet, trust factor, overwatch or any variation therein wouldn't almost completely resolve the bot crisis, let alone updating VAC, steamworks, any kind of functioning anticheat. the "treadmill problem" talk is just an excuse to be lazy. maintaining an online multiplayer game is and of itself a "treadmill problem", you need to maintain them for them to function. billions of dollars and they cannot spare even a cent to fix tf2. i will not be purchasing another game on steam let alone supporting any other valve properties until something is done about tf2, as i think boycotting tf2 alone isn't enough. i have no problem playing my massive backlog and torrenting whatever else i need. if you love this game, consider doing the same.
what did valve mention that? I mean bro that's heavy
I hate the fact i discovered about valve doing this deadlock shit when they literally got a "hero" arcade shooter that ran VERY fucking well. if they just remade tf2 it would be a bigger success than this shit.
I also fucking hate that my friends welcome it with open arms. overwatch was fun for like a week max.
I think the key problem is that Valve makes a lot of money from farming and trading bots, and they can't differentiate aimbots from those moneymaking bots. Until there's a large public cry against Valve, or a class action suit, they won't fix the issue.
who is your guest?
Edit: oh its Richter his voice is so enthusiastic in this video
Is this a Reupload? 'cus I'm having a Deja'Vu
20:11 funny moment
The only way i see save tf2 2 working is if there was some sort of steam exodus. not people deleting their accounts or something stupid but people not buying games on steam. The best case is 1) link up with csgo2 player, I'm not to in the know but they are having a hacker problem as well. 2) Pick a date, my idea would be a steam winter sale when valve is expecting to make the big bucks and both the communities review bomb their respective games to hell much like the hell divers community did for their game. 3) Stop buying games . The long time meme is "hahaha i have a million games ill NEVER PLAY" so we stop buying them. On mass people stop buying from the steam store, play the games in your back log and if you REALLY NEED TO CONSUME go to epic games or another game store. Now this is the important part, if valve does respond we need to make it know that we will do it again next sale should some amount of progress not be made. I know this sounds like a reddit pipe dream but i really feel that an actual shot at this would be something along these lines. Also i'm typing this before watching because it is my duty as a youtube commenter to do so.
are those kz zsn pro xs?
Yes
The old one only got a tweet because someone showed up to valve offices. That's the only way you're getting a response.
if we’re going to include other source games into this then maybe we should call it #SaveUsValve or something
The fact that you only need to tell Valve that their anti-cheat does literally nothing and why would you give them money for a non-functional product.
At 1:55:30 you discuss like new people coming in and I think another huge barrier to new players is is insanely awful default settings. The game is nearly unplayable without a decent config and even a lot of people who play regularly don’t quite understand just how bad they are. I think just updating a lot of the default settings would help a ton if not for the bots
Yup
1:10:19
I think we should take it a step further than the boycott, and all start deleting 1 weapon drop, scrap, or case, everyday valve doesnt respond
Opinion: Valve can't solve bots long term - the reason they are so prevalent is because they launched massively anti-f2p update 8 years ago and just left the game like that. F2p have no incentive to stay and old players will move on and get a job, life and stop playing. We are riding declining player numbers and it should be the priority to turn around.
There needs to be an aknowledgment in Valve's failure in game design: they treated TF2 like an esports game and it broke. They put a goldfish on leash, took it to a dog park, and now they got dead fish in their hands.
Casual is a failure and most of the draconian changes to base gameplay they implemented needs to be rolled back.
Moral of the story: random spread bad, turn off random savetf2 spread next time
16:09 - 16:50 holy shit lol
i disagree with the idea that for this to work we need some kind of strong leader to guide the masses, people can pull this kind of thing off without some figurehead as long as everyone is able to stay organized and focused on accurate rhetoric and a clear goal.
when we gonna have all tf2 youtuber to sing imagine from john lennon to savetf2 ???
KEK fuck you for reminding of that
God, 2020 was such a fever dream
Richter doesn't workout as a co-host for the stream, i understand he got cut off alot but rich had a passive aggressive word usage when zesty pissed him off, gaslight him when he put words in zesty mouth and repeating the same thoughts already elaborated and rewording what zesty just said. But hey it's zesty's stream what am i say.
Chat zesty and trad wife richter
how do you incorporate TF2 CS2 and Left 4 death players in one movement. IDK. I also do not know how Valve will lunch a 6v6 game and have still same problems with bots. What a shit show. BTW if Valve cannot fix bots in TF2 and CS2 .. then in that new game upon free to play you know what is gonna happen. I give it 4 years.
I'll be on TF2 classic until the game improves.
I don't think this is going to go anywhere. I genuinely don't. What i see is that people keep asking to save TF2, but i don't see ANYONE providing actual viable solution as to how.
As far as i'm concerned - this crisis is unsolvable. Realistically: what can they do? They have no names, they have no addresses. They have NO vector of attack, at all, at least from where i'm standing. Best they can do is un-F2P the game and forever lock out trading leaving only Steam Market features intact. That is the most Scorched Earth policy they can pull, and i don't know how willing the community to deal with that (for the record: i'm on board).
Another option, uh... Hire some kind of internet-detectives to find the bot hosters?... Create a whole department dedicated to just this? Costing crazy amounts of money for potentially no effect at all? I just... From pure business point its just not worth it. Its not worth to invest into this to save a 10+ old game.
This is on top of the fact that cheating / hacking / botting issues seem to be escalating across gaming industry. There have been so many major controversies regarding this or that game being absolutely infested with cheaters, Apex Legends live tournament hack, etc... I think we've simply entered a dark age of gaming where all PvP games are now just cursed with this nonsense and there is no hope in sight except for installing all of the Kernel-Level protective software and PRAYING it will work and won't backfire on you in any way.
I am utterly black pilled on all this. It keeps getting worse with each year and i have not seen a single idea besides giving full hardware access to some IT company in California to prove you're a good boy. Just... Blergh.
i mean a multi billion dollar company should be able to defeat a couple of losers in their mothers basements coding cheats
@@xvyz.. We'd all be surprised. Internet has been around for a while now. There are people who grew up with this stuff as baseline, and know how to REALLY hide themselves on the internet and no money will help you there.
Its been 5+ years and there's not even a whiff. There was a "doxing incident" , but it appears it went absolutely nowhere..
they could start by patching up all the exploits the bots and cheaters use and then work on better server-side detection of cheaters
@@xvyz..
You'd think its that easy, but it really isnt.
Note, they tend to share this around, have newer versions, etc. Not as easy as it sounds.
the dude on ur stream is so annoying. he keeps interrupting you and making inconsequential points and gets mad at you when ur trying to make ur own point on ur own stream.
Richter destroying the pace of the stream... kinda hard to watch.
Let's all go to Team Fortress 2 Classic together!
I swapped my name to killtf2 since that movement literally doesn't do anything
*yawn* I don't care about casual, 2cities mann up seems to have no bots aside from cheaters who are like "hurr durr don't kick me" if people refuse to populate community servers instead of relying on casual we are not gonna go anywhere if you can't fix stupid then nothings gonna change
then bring Quickplay. 2014 one. i been advocating for quick play for years now. community server browser is easy to use but no one will join an empty server and wait god know how long until someone join him.
...toxic positivity..?
what are your doubts
Listen I dont agree with Zesty's political views but it's very funny how the guy thats considered a right wing psyop is willing to call out anti-consumer practices and antagonize the big company, this guy nows bullshit when he sees it
People think I'm a right ring psyop? What does that even mean...
i DONT agree 😢
JUST PLAY ON COMMUNITY SERVERS FFS
I have a possible idea for some warplan, we could contact popular CZcamsrs like Moist Critical and Markiplier and hell, even MrBeast if we can. and get them to cover it on account of the movement making an attempt to save the best game on earth. Doing this could create a wave of coverage possibly. It might not work but I think it has some potential.
no
@@DannyCheezits That's why I said it MIGHT have some potential. Not that it did.
@@doyouknoedawae it doesn't. that would involve federal investigations into the company, and valves first thought wouldn't be to fix tf2. it would be to remove the ability to upload sprays and decals entirely.
It could lead to very adverse effects, like how Valve's respose to the BLM movement back in 2020 was to censor the game chat through a toggle and punish F2Ps from doing anything until they spent money on the game.
What if Valve says fuck it and removes player interaction completely to solve the problem?
Damn, Zesty. Those rants about the Workshop being bad must not be doing too well for your bottom line, huh?
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hater gotta hate, huh?
@@zestyalt Don't play dumb, Zesty. You know damn well that you're only talking about SaveTF2 because you need the money from your stupid fanbase as you regurgitate talking points from years ago.
baited nobody award🏅