While touring the U.S.S. Iowa in San Pedro, our docent spoke of a South Korean man who had visited. He was a young boy in a small coastal village during the Korean War, and the villagers were in great fear as approaching North Korean troops got close enough to see. Then, out of nowhere, those troops were decimated by a series of massive explosions. Looking out to sea, a ship's dark silhouette was on the horizon, her big guns flashing in anger. The kid later found out his village's salvation came from the U.S.S. Iowa, and when the ship became a museum it was his dream to visit her. That was a pretty cool story.
I would take any story from a tour guide with a grain of salt. They tend to invent stories, especially sentimental ones. Ship museums are particularly bad about that.
A friend was in Vietnam, taking heavy fire from a small island in the mouth of a river flowing into the sea. They called for artillery, none in the area. A voice on the radio said “this is the USS New Jersey, we believe we’re in range, give us coordinates.” They did so, and New Jersey said “we’ll fire one round for effect from main battery, then you can walk us in.” From over the horizon, something roared out of the sky like the fist of an angry god. Debris, branches, mud, etc. were still falling when New Jersey said “how close are we to that island?” Long pause, then “what island?” Danny was always impressed by that…
I hear a lot f the "sounded like a train coming" stories, but the shells were supersonic so you wouldn't hear a damn thing until it had passed by and then it would be the crack of a sonic boom. Likely about the moment of the impact if near enough for a support role.
@@mytech6779 ,,DUDE ! Why you trying to ruin it for us, the " fist of an angry god " part was a nice touch , your one of those that likes delivering the bad news to the next of kin
@@mytech6779 the shells travel in a high arc, so as I recall the long drawn out rumble of the distant gunfire and sonic boom of the shell travelling upward should arrive before the shell completes its arc, creating a slow deep rumble like a freight train.
@@kyleheins I actually did the calculations before posting that, the straight line ground speed is still over mach 1.1 even in the worst case arc and accounting for air drag. ( 45deg firing,[max range] to sea level target. lower angle eg 30 deg or to a target at higher elevation results in a much higher ground speed. )
A good friend of mine told this story about the New Jersey in Nam. He was with a sweep in the north looking for Charlie when his platoon stepped into a clearing and drew gunfire from the village. The marines were used to 105s but none could hit the village. Aircraft were temporarily unavailable and DaNang suggested the New Jersey off shore. My friend laughed and said we are 18 miles from the coast. A few seconds later the a voice crackled over the radio saying he was on the Con of the New Jersey and asked for their coordinates. He gave them the coordinates and was told to back up one grid square. My friend was used to the precision of the marine and army 105s laughed at how inaccurate the Naval fire was that he had to get 1/4 mile away. HE HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS COMING. He called back a confirmed his location and the target local and the officer on the battleship asked how many racks did he want. My friend, not knowing what a rack was, said give me what you got. The New Jersey elevated all 9 guns and fired a broadside. My friend said that even though he was 1/4 mile away trees fell within his sight. The village was a 40 foot deep hole about 100 yards round. The officer then said “fire for effect?” To which my friend said “no please no more”. Naval guns, WOW.
This much of destructive power explains also the enormous civilian casualties on the Viet Kong side and in rural Viet Nam. Excessive fire power to suppress a relentless and defiant insurgency. Elephants rumble, grass gets crushed. As has been so for millenia 😢
Hey Ryan, so glad to see a focus on the New Jersey! I was a Marine in Vietnam 68-70 and the most impressive experience was the naval gunfire support from the New Jersey's 16 inchers firing over us. We were on one side of a hill facing the South China Sea, and the Jersey's target was in the valley on the other side of our hill. When the barrage started, we didn't know what the HELL was going on! Then word came down it was the New Jersey! We could actually see the ship out there (a small dot on the horizon) but when they fired, the orange flash was not a small dot! The sequence was impressive - the flash, a couple seconds later the sound of the guns firing, then the shock wave through the air (felt like it was pulling the skin on your face back). The rounds going overhead sounded like a freight train, then the explosion where they hit was an earthquake... WOW! I was exposed to plenty of Bang-Bang over there, but the day we got support from the New Jersey was the most impressive!
A friend flew F-4's over there, one time as a FAC for the 16" guns on the battle ship. He could see the them coming over in the air, and once one got too close and the shock wave bounced the Phantom in flight.
@Russian Bot - Slava Ukraini There has been war since man has been on the earth… it’s unfortunate, but good luck with changing human nature. I have no shame about serving in the military. I would guess that you are young and IDEALISTIC- get hip to REALITY.
A few years ago, I was at Point d; Hoc in Normandy. 75 years after D-Day, it still looked like the face of the Moon. And a bunch of those craters were from the 14 inch guns of USS Texas. Impressive as hell.
I was going to post the same experience! It's very impressive, especially when you consider that those craters have nearly 80; years of weathering on them!
Interesting fact about the Texas during D-Day. She was I believe 12000 yards off the coast and fired 250 rounds in 30 minutes in support of the landings. After emptying her magazines, sailed to the rear took on more munitions then sailed back to the front. By that time the allies had pushed the Germans so far back the Texas no longer had the range to reach the Germans. So she sailed to within 3000 yards the closest she could get then they flooded one of her blister tanks listing the ship to give the guns more angle giving them ability to hit the Germans farther inland.
In 1968 as a young Marine Reconnaissance team leader, I had the New Jersey as naval gunfire support while on patrol in Vietnam. We observed 20 NVA soldiers from our vantage point and I called in gunfire from the famed battleship on the enemy troops to deadly effect. I can remember thinking, "when I'm old and gray, I can tell people what I did over there". Scary and exhilarating, my Vietnam service was the most important and impactful moments of my life. Thanks for a great video.
Roger that! Army. In ‘70, my unit was tasked with guarding a tank farm (fuel) just north of Qui Nhon. We had hostile fire and were severely outnumbered that night. There were reports of up to 5000 NVA from S2 Intelligence. We called in fire support from the USS New Jersey. They hit so close, we left the ground and debris landed all around us - among other things. I’ve always sworn, I will visit that great ship and kiss her deck. It’s possible our unit would have been overrun. I recall the rounds flying overhead sounding like a low flying jet. We braced and were in no way mentally prepared for the impacts, especially those that hit closest to us. I’ll never forget. This is the first time I’ve ever seen a 16” round. Damn. They’re huge.
I was trained as a Naval Gunfire Liaison Officer. While training at San Clemente firing range, we had an afternoon off and the Gunny loaded us up in a deuce and a half and took us to the beach. At one point he pulled off the road and into a nice cozy little spot, it had about 7 foot pile of dirt going around three sides, just perfect for the truck to fit in, or a good place for cover for a tank or artillery piece. "Gentlemen, this was made by the impact of a 16" BL&P round from the New Jersey." Blind, Loaded and Plugged is essentially a dummy round with no explosives.
I served almost four years on Battleship IOWA. When we would go off shore at Vieques, an island the Navy used for a firing range, when a 2,200 pound round would hit, it left a 50 foot diameter and 30 feet deep crater. Before the use of Remote Piloted Vehicles that were fitted with cameras and computer that fed target acquisition to the ship, a couple of Marines were on the island providing target coordinates to the ship of where to put the rounds, they would say you could hear the round come whistling in and when it hit, they felt like their heart was coming out of their chest. When you can put a round the weight of a Volkswagen 25 miles away directly on target, that’s awesome. Reporters would come onboard and video a Battleship Broadside (all guns fired Simultaneously from port or starboard), we’d tell them they needed to brace themselves or they would go flying along with their cameras. Most didn’t listen and they would end up on their asses about 10-15 feet from where they were standing. Hilarious! Nine 16” rounds and the 5”/38 guns would put out a lot of flame and could destroy a small city. I loved my tour on IOWA where you learned what the real Navy was like.
Yes, this is GREAT Comment to remind the World also about that Puerto Rico and Puerto Ricans (NOT the Mexicans) played a Strategic roles in the Wars of WI, WII, KOREA, Vietnam, ...Etc. WARS VICTORIES. So, the USA owns EVERYTHING to Puerto Rico and to the Puerto Rican People, a lot more than RESPECTS.
@@jayvee8502I had a political science teacher from San Diego state say it wouldn’t even dent her bmw car if it was 3 feet away . Battleships went away because they can no longer damage things …. If they could they would still be in the navy now. As a ex navy sailor it was very insulting. I served from USS Nimitz(2009-2014) who did a cruise with the Iowa and had her do a shoot for memorial and tiger cruise purposes and for the mayor it was special.
Awesome video, Ryan. I got to watch my Destroyer performing gunnery exercises off San Clemente Island in 1986. I was impressed with those 5" 54's while sitting on the fantail with binoculars watching the rounds hitting the island. Then the Missouri started shelling the island firing over us from about 5 miles further out (we were about 8 miles from the island). The resulting explosion was like comparing 22 long rifle to a 10 gauge shotgun slug! I could hear those round overhead and about the time we saw them impact we could hear the report from her guns. Very impressive.
My brother was telling me a few weeks ago about a similar experience from his frigate, same place & battleship, also in the mid 80s. Said it made Army 8" howitzer rounds look like firecrackers (he was Army Guard when he got out of the Navy). Having watched & felt 8" rounds come in myself, I can't imagine what 16" are like.
@@ryansouthworth668 always wondered how much collateral damage was caused by 50 caliber bullets shot at planes, at sea n on land, 2 -3 miles tragectory at least!!
@@ryansouthworth668 by explosive you mean less propellant? Or actual payload of explosive in the shell? I can understand the second not the first as conductive to barrel life.
When I was a boy I worked at the munitions factory in New Jersey that made these shells. My job was to empty the metal scrap barrels from each lathe. Three tons on the lathe, 1.5 tons when they came off. Three lathes, each one made 4 shells a day. Was very impressive watching these machinists.
So a single broadside is almost a full days work for a crew of skilled machinists? Bloody hell... Imagine an entire factory spending a month, working flat out, just to have NJ burn it all in a quarter hour :'(
@@kevinverduci7600 Morris County..12 shells a day..mebbe there were more factories scattered about. Never looked like we kept inventory on hand..it all got shipped
I was in the Navy in San Diego in 1968, 1969. I have always felt privileged that I was able to watch the New Jersey enter the harbor while I was there. She was a huge long ship. It was an incredible view.
I had a friend who was an artillery controller in Korea who had one mission with a battleship that "gave" him 3 salvos broadside to a target on a mountain top 22 miles inland those 3 salvos cut 50 feet off the top of the mountain. (he had the surveyors measure) The Chinese took the resultant gravel for sand bag filler and dug in even more. He did say it was an epic visual as 27 rounds plowed into the granite.
@@danielboatright8887 The US did not use all the might of its power in Korea like it did in WW2. It was normally limited operations exercising only a fraction of manpower. If the US had of taken the gloves off and threw much larger scale of resources they would have done far more damage to the Chinese in Korea.
My Uncle Pete certainly thought the 16-inch shells worked well. He was a young Marine on the beaches in the Pacific (Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, etc.) and said you could see the shells going overhead. When they hit the mountains, large parts of the mountain(s) disappeared. He was quite impressed and very happy that they were *our* guns being used against the enemy and not vice versa.
My small unit in Vietnam was stationed near the South China Sea in 1968. I was worling in our Signal Maintenance Shop one day and heard a sound that could have been either incoming or outgoing rounds. I stepped outside to check it out and saw a ship out on the sea. We had a neat little surveyor's transit that came out of the Air Force salvage yard that made a handy telescope. I set it up on a stepladder and when I focused on that ship, which I thought was a destroyer. it turned out to be the New Jerseu. She was only firing one round at a time but it was still impressive. The sound took 23 seconds to reach us. I remember reading in the Stars & Stripes that they were using to New Jersey to knock out bunkers on the DMZ that were made out of eight inch reinforced concrete. B52 bombs would bounce of them. Seeing that ship in action was my most memorable moment in my nineteen months over there.
@@jackrichards1863 5 seconds is 1 mile 23 miles would be MAX range.... aka the shells would be dropping on the story teller . 5.7 miles away from story teller is the REAL distance....
@@kainhall He writes ". The sound took 23 seconds to reach us." One mile per second is the speed of sound, so 23 miles. The direction the Jersey was firing does not have to be toward 'the story teller'. Five seconds is not 1 mile, pup!
In Vietnam we used the armor piercing rounds to penetrate caves. Especially when we used "super elevation" to drop them on the back side of a mountain. I sailed the last Vietnam cruise of New Jersey in '69. GQ station was either main battery plot or one of the main battery gun directors. I helped put her out of commission in Bremerton.
I live in Bremerton and remember the USS New Jersey sitting in the mothball fleet at PSNS for years. Toured the Mighty Mo as a kid got a chance to get up close to the 16" guns. Very, very impressive.
@@henrydhamster1093 I live in NJ. Every time I drive into Philly, I get to see her moored at the Camden waterfront. Tens of thousands of people per day probably glance at her without a second thought while driving over the Ben Franklin Bridge, unaware that she's the most decorated vessel in US Naval history.
As a Marine in Viet Nam around DaNang in 1969 I can tell you yes you can hears the rounds and they made great swimming pools 30+ ft around and 20 ft deep depending on the soil, they cleared everything but large Stands of Bamboo which were cut off at about 18" but did not make great LZ,s because of debris which had to be cleared first.
I had the honor of visiting the Mighty Mo twice while I was serving in the RCN. On one visit, I had the opportunity to talk to one of the gunners, and I asked what the range and accuracy of the 16" was. His reply was, "+/- 50 feet at 22 miles. But... it leaves a 100 foot crater, so....". We also did war games off Hawaii with the PAC fleet one year. Mighty Mo about 7 miles out from the target island, with our ship, HMCS Saskatchewan, in between Mo and the island. It's a surreal experience to see the fireball coming out of the 16" gun, followed by a long dull roar a couple of seconds after. Hearing the shell whistle by overhead, on it's way to vaporize a large chunk of real estate. Has to be seen to be believed.
A very good friend of mine was a ranger in Vietnam. He related a story to me about how one time he was spotting a bunker to be distorted. The Air Forced made strike after strike without destroying the target. Finally he called in a strike from the New Jersey. The first round landed on target. The bunker flew into the air and was destroyed.
Was the Air Force using dumb bombs? The first laser-guided bombs were dropped late in the Vietnam War, reducing the circular error probable quite a bit, down to New Jersey's error I would expect. As your friend's story indicates, near-misses against reinforced targets are unlikely to be effective, although I imagine life wasn't pleasant for anyone inside that bunker with bombs going off nearby.
@@danielmocsny5066 The Jersey had a fairly safisticated computer targeting system as you can imagine able to hit other ships at 23 miles so yeah, bye bye bunker.
Now worship the fact that that was done from several miles away on the slightly rolling vessel that serves as your gun platform. The calculations involved melts the average mind. You even have to take into consideration the rotation of the earth. Corealis(sic) effect. Windage. Basic trajectory. Timing between target and gun. WOOPEE! From an old gunners mate, '72- '74.
I have personally seen the impact of 16 inch rounds. The impact crater is very impressive. We called them grid zone removers because anything there was just about gone.
@@offshoretomorrow3346 "Some good vids on youtube" like the ones on this channel? Ryan & the USS New Jersey Museum crew have done a few really detailed videos on the turrets
I was on the USS Buchanan in 1977 doing gunnery exercises with the mighty mo, what impressed me was how accurate it was. It was firing much farther out then we were.
Years ago when I was on the USS Luce, DLG-7, we were off the coast of an island off the coast of Puerto Rice Getting some firing time with our 5 inch 54. I worked on the missile system so a few of us went out and watched from the top of the missile house. We fired a few rounds and out of no where it sounded like a freight train passing over us. a few seconds later we heard a rumble from behind us. We could barely make out that it was a ship. It didn't take long to figure out what it was. It was the Battleship New Jersey that had just been reactivated and was getting ready to go to Vietnam. After a few rounds, we could see the flash, even in daylight and actually watch the rounds pass us and hit the island. Nothing but incredible.
My father was in Ordinance Corp in the Canadian Army during World War II specializing in fuses. He would point to you that armor piercing shells are fused in the base so the fuse will survive the initial impact. Thus your 16" shell has only a painted line on the smooth nose cone. The high explosive round has the fuse in the nose for immediate detonation and greatest effect. On it you can see the outline of the fuse projecting out of the nose.
Love all the stories about the grand lady! I worked with a guy in the early 80’s who was a electrician on the New Jersey during Vietnam. He told a story about some civilian techs coming onboard to install some type of new gear on the guns and after installation the guns had to be test fired. The techs had some apparently expensive tool boxes with some VERY expensive tools. When the guns were turned to firing position someone noticed that all these tool boxes were under the barrels. They told the techs that the boxes needed to be moved but whoever was in charged advised the boxes “were very well built & heavy” so they didn’t need to be moved. Well they proceeded with the test firing and after one salvo ALL the boxes were pushed over the side because the only way to open them was with a cutting torch!
My uncle was on the Big Mo but he never talked about his experience. It’s great getting to read through some of the veterans comments, you guys have definitely got some stories to tell. From one civi to all you vets, thanks for all you do.
Before we landed in Vietnam (1966) they shelled the area and it was quite a sight to behold. We had 155 mm but these put ours to shame - very impressive to watch. Brought back many memories.
I want to express my gratitude to this channel. I discovered it about two weeks ago, and to watch the production quality advance and Ryan becoming more confident has been awesome to watch. I am excited to see what this has to offer in the future. Keep it up!
Off the coast of North Vietnam near Haiphong was a rock island in which was embedded radar station. Small naval guns attacked it without damaging it. Bombers sent bombs toward it without affect. I was on PIRAZ station. The Big J went past us and with two salvos blew half the island away the radar station with it. Before and after photos were sent to my ship, USS Long Beach CG(N)-9. That was 1968 I believe.
Step-dad was with the 47th, said they were like freight-trains over head at Normandy Saw a bunker devoid of bodies that a shell had pierced partial before detonation doors blow out tiny body parts and red stains . Those were 14" That pressure wave is highly destructive more so in a closed space. But they were always grateful for the offshore support. Highly Devastating in power and morale reduction in the enemy.
Big guns are truly awe inspiring. I read an account from a survivor from the Hood or Prince of Wales (sorry I can't remember which) from the engagement with the Bismark in WWII. He said near misses from the Bismark's main guns disrupted the air so badly it literally "tore screams from your lungs". I can't even imagine that.
My father was a signalman on Prince of Wales when she was one of the ships against Bismark. He mentioned the noise the shells made even when they missed too. Terrifying. He also saw the Hood going down . . or 'going up' was his description as a more accurate description. She had taken a direct hit to her midships magazines and sank in a matter of minutes.
@@dacutler I can well believe how terrifying war is, and to be in this battle, to the death must have taken some resolution to fight, against all odds. We now live in a time of spineless individuals and because we have left off contending for what is good, honest, decent, no threats, real threats to our existence, and so we have become soft. We owe more than memorials to those who fought for us, as my father said, for us, not for the government.
My old SGM was an SF team SGT in Vietnam. They were watching a large NVA convoy approach a main road intersection and called in a fire mission, well as they waited he said "man it's taking a long time for those... " he stopped and told everyone on the team to run like hell. He'd realized it wasn't going to be 105mm hitting it, but 16" Navel gunfire from off shore. They made it to he reverse side of the hill just before the salvo impacted. Needless to say, the convoy was no more.
When I was an engineer in 1968-1971 working for the Naval Ordnance Station in Indian Head, MD, we made the propellant for the NJ's 16 inch guns. As I recall, it was a double base propellant made of some formulaic combination of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. We made it in little pellets a little bigger than the filter on a cigarette, then it went through a series of processes before it was turned into a slurry, then sent through a huge stainless steel extrusion die to shape it into whatever charge was necessary for the NJ's needs. The extrusion process was unattended and in an underground bunker with the extrusion press aimed at 10 ft concrete bunker walls and into the dirt. One day there was an 'accident' apparently caused by some metal getting into the slurry and it ignited, sending the two ton extrusion die through the 10 ft reinforced concrete and 30 ft into the soil. OOPS! Fortunately, no one was injured, but the press and bunker was destroyed.
I was in Vietnam on a mountain when the new Jersey fired over the mountain the shells sounded like a freight train going swooshing. Overhead and the explosion 💥 in the valley was tromendus we could see and feel the shock wave on the mountain the crater's left by the 16" inch shells were 13 ft wide and 20 ft deep it was awesome 👍 the most incredible sight I ever seen.
I'm sorry for my confusion. But did the shells land in a valley or on a mountain? The craters being deeper than wide just doesn't sound right to me. Any photos I have seen showing explosive created craters, they are typically wider than they are deep.
Thank you Ryan for all that you and your colleagues do in explaining the various munitions etc. As a British Royal Marine Commando I’m saddened by the the shortsightedness of our political “masters” and that only HMS Belfast survives from WW2 as a small example of the colossal power of the British Royal Navy.
@@ToddDunning Here's the thing, after WWII, Britain was flat broke, and the economy went into a major recession. The Royal Navy didn't have the budget to keep the ships, or maintain them as museums, so they had to sell them for scrap.
@@ToddDunning there's also the destroyer H.M.S. Cavalier at Chatham and recently L.C.T. 7074 was restored and went on display at Portsmouth, but Belfast is the largest thing left. Both Belfast and Cavalier remained in service post WW2 so have various later modifications from their WW2 configuration. As already said, the UK was flat broke after the war, whatever didn't remain in service got sold, transferred or scrapped fairly quickly.
@@ToddDunning My observations indicate that its the US who probably do the most to honour their military and the people who served their country and protect many of us in countries who lack the recourses to effectively protect ourselves. This was true in WW2 and if trouble comes again, we will look to America to shoo away those who seek to do us harm.
@@brucegibbins3792 I have a lot of respect for what America did in WW2, but it wasn't America who defeated the Luftwaffe and Kraigsmarine and Italian Navy and Air Force during key battles.
Iowa came alongside USS Midway I think it was 1988 or 89 (before the turret casualty obviously), pulled ahead of our fwd port quarter and let loose with those big guns. Holy s**t was that impressive. Shook the whole carrier, then I jogged over to the Stbd sponson and using a pair of binos, saw the big plumes of white water way, way out toward the horizon where the projectiles were hitting the water. I was a suitably impressed 18/19 year old. 1st time I saw a BB up close was around the same time frame, Missouri came alongside to get some fuel from us. Stood on the STBD sponson looking across and down at that ship, its teak decks...man, there was just something special about the battleships and while it was expensive to bring them back into service, felt lucky I got to see them in action underway, half-way around the world.
Ok doing some quick back of the envelope math a 50’ diameter crater 20’ deep works out to roughly 35,000 cubic feet of soil relocated at high velocity. Using a unit weight of 92 pounds per cubic foot gives us 3.22 MILLION pounds of soil moved in about a tenth of a second per shell. The amount of energy on display is nothing short of incredible EDIT: I’ve changed the weight of soil to 80 lb/ft3 and the volume to 27,500 cubic feet based on the volume of a sphere accounting for the crater being wider than it is deep. I have now arrived at 2.24 million pounds of soil distributed to the surrounding area.
@@stevek8829 Yeah I actually redid the numbers using a partial volume of a sphere with a 50’ diameter and got like 2.68 million pounds, but it’s not a perfect sphere because the diameter is greater than the depth so it’s probably closer to 2.8-2.9 million pounds in that range. This is just back of the envelope math I could do an equation of a curve and set up an integral to find area and then volume but I’m way too lazy for that.
@@edsloan8535 Thank you, I am showing this to the wife, So the next time she wants a fire pit, post holes, etc. Dug out. She will understand why those "little holes" tire me out! 👍🤣
In 1968 I went to Miraflores Locks where my dad was working in the Control House and I got to watch the New Jersey come southbound through the last set of locks and enter the Pacific Ocean on her way to Vietnam. That was great to have the perfect vantage point to watch her come through. There were five canal pilots taking her through because of her wide beam, one senior pilot on the bridge and one pilot on each side of the forecastle and the stern to keep her centered in the lock chamber. They do this by radio to the mules to have them take in or let out cable on each side as there is only about 10.5 inches on each side. The lock chambers are 110 feet wide, and the ships beam is 108 feet 3 inches, so it is a very tight squeeze! Towing locomotives have always been called mules in the Panama Canal. In the twenty years I lived there (1953-1973) I got to see all of the Iowa's transit at least once, and they were the most beautiful ships to watch out of the thousands I saw go through. I also saw the Alabama go through as a dead tow on her way to Mobile to become a museum ship in 1965, also a tight squeeze. Battleships are just beautiful whether they have 45 (Alabama) or 50 (Iowa) caliber 16 inch guns.
My Uncle (RIP) was offshore of Iwo Jima while they bombarded the island with everything they could muster to enable the ground troops to go ashore with minimal casualties. He remembered how those BIG shells from the battleships flew overhead, so big they could see them! And hear them! He thought nothing could survive that onslaught, and yet- we all know the story. They didn’t just survive, they were ready for mortal combat when the troops waded ashore. But the point of the story is how BIG these shells were. He remembered watching them fly overhead. It was like launching small cars from a cannon.
Well, I'm a former Marine, one of my 3 jobs was calling in Naval funfire, as such I was tought the different types, the 16" round being one of the, the interesting thing about them, from my perspective, was the :Detonating Radius, which was listed as 500M. over 1/4 of a mile. The detoanting radius was defined as the radius that will produce %50 caualties in exposed troops.
All respect sir, thank you for your service. However, as the proud father of an active Marine, it’s my understanding that there is NO such thing as a “former” Marine. Semper Fi…
When i was in the Navy we were in a battle group with the USS New Jersey and you could see the 16" Projectiles flying over us like planes without wings. I saw that and would say, God that's going to hurt. You could not even see the landing of the rounds on land but could hear them like when they came out the barrel. I got to see Bob Hope and Brooke Sheilds on the Battle Wagon. She was a Beautiful Ship. I was in for 11 yrs and got out disabled Honorability Retired. The Gun Mounts made our 5" 54 look like Benjemin Pellet guns. With all respect to Her, this Man does not give this video Justice.... They Should have picked up a Gunner's Mate from 70's or 80's to make this video..... "Fair Winds and Following Seas" ...... Anchors Aweigh ......
I was on the USS THACH FFG-43. We went on a WEST PAC with the USS NEW JERSEY. We were the first Battleship group since WW2. It sure was nice to see her light things up. Quite a scene to see all the ships in formation. That was was in '86.
"This man does not give this video justice." Ya this man only works for the museum and has 1400 CZcams videos out describing basically every aspect of this class of battleship, but I guess we're all entitled to our opinions. Personally I think he does a great job.
I was in a Marine infantry unit in Vietnam which at times were in areas where the U.S.S. New Jersey would provide support. Rumors, etc. about the projectiles were different than the video above. Even though the ones in the video are impressive, the stories were of much bigger. But, I do have to say, the rounds coming in had a very unique sound, sort of like a freight train. We were always thankful for the Navy helping us out. As far as the host's question about the way the rounds were designed, from my perspective, I think they did quite a good job.
I think the engineers know a WHOLE lot more about how to make those shells than anybody out here does. So I'd say they got the balance of steel to charge right. Thanks for sharing.
I was on topside when the 16 were firing and what a blast. A couple of the other sailors kind of freaked out. The rest as well as myself were hanging on. I still have a 5 inch shell.
I am a Plankowner of USS Wisconsin BB-64. As an FC that had his 1st GQ station inside Turret 2 I used to watch the fall of shot through the rangefinder. As an HE round impacts the ground there is a flash a big cloud of sand and pieces of shrapnel flying away from the blast. Firing at see we would fire a round painted blue. It was called BL and P - which stands for Blank, Loaded and Plugged. It is basically an inert round with no explosive charge. On impact of the sea it would cause a splash that was large enough to provide a radar image for the main battery fire control radar. This image was used to correct the spotting to bring subsequent rounds on target.
As a Marine in Vietnam in 1968-69 we had the New Jersey offshore in Yankee station for Naval gunfire duty. The craters and instant wells it made were testimony of it’s awesome power. Sometimes it was too close to use when we called for Naval unfriendly support and would need the 5” guns for close contact.
I have to say, watching your channel and learning about the Iowas and specifically New Jersey definetly has made me develop a fondness for the New Jersey specifically. Never knew that much about the Iowa class, but thanks to you guys they are now some of my favorite ships. Continue on with the great and informative work!
Radar registration required for 16 inch guns on New Jersey in 2 corp. Viet Nam 69. Gave target grid to fdc on ship. Each gun had to be test 3 times each Then all guns fire for effect. Each gun corrected then fire all guns at target grid which was a high hill When dust cleared hill was gone. Can’t imagine being shot at by those guns. Freight train thru a tunnel Then rounds had to go over us to target. Was Airborne. and found real respect for navy
A .50 BMG has a muzzle energy of about 19,000 ft lbf . The dreaded Pak 40 had a muzzle energy of 1,572,000 ft lbf. The AP shell fired from one of the 16/50 cal mark 7 guns was 262,309,884 ft lbf. Crazy energy. 😵
The penetrating power of those armour piercing shells into reinforced concrete is very impressive. The 22,000 pound Grand Slam bombs dropped in WW II were about 45% charge, with the other 55% being chrome molybdenum steel, could reach the speed of sound but couldn't penetrate anything like 30 feet of reinforced concrete. However, they did go straight through Tirpitz, but then battleships aren't armoured for that sort of projectile and direction of attack.
I had some business in L'Orient, France and they took me by the old German U-boat pens which had been bombed by big, deep penetration bombs. The locals told me that despite the size and speed of the bombs, they mostly bounced off the reinforced concrete and didn't penetrate the sub pens. The German Army retreated from there after the D-Day landings, but it had been in use up till then.
I was at Phan Rang AB in 1968/69 and remember watching the shells fly over our base during Tet and then feeling the concussion a few seconds later. And thanking the US Navy for helping us from being over run.
Thank you ! Im 55 but somewhat remember That era..I wish our government would eliminate taxes on you and pay you for risking your life. I'm grateful for you.thank you.
As an F.O. in Viet Nam from 66 to 67 and having called in a number of 8 in and 16 in fire missions, we went on a mission in the DMZ . Having personally seen the craters from 8 in and 16 in Heavy Cruisers and Battle Ship, I can tell you they are HUGE and impressive. (the DMX looked like the surface of the moon).
I remember reading a book on the siege of Bataan and Corregidor during early WWII. The coast artillery batteries on Corregidor had quite an arsenal of 12” and 14” guns and 12” coast art. mortars. As. well as plenty of shells for them. Unfortunately almost all their fuses were time delay fuses for engaging armored ships. So when they fired them at ground targets on Bataan or Cavite, the shells would bury themselves deep underground before the time delay timed out. So all you got was a big shower of dirt and minimal damage if any. The Ordnance guys figured out how to remove the delay pellet, but it apparently wasn’t easy, and they could only convert 20 or 30 a day.
The deflection of the projectile as it penetrates the armor has always been the purpose of sloped armor protection or blisters. As a tanker, the SABOT round compensated for this deflection with the placement of a bearing nose cap on top of the tungsten penetrator. As the nose of the projectile contacted the armor, it would rotate upward, and this split second movement deflected the penetrator to a more perpendicular exposure to the armor. As a result, it was a rare thing to see a SABOT ricochet or not defeat the armor. With these big guns, it was more about volume of the fire on target so something was bound to get a good, solid hit.
It's fascinating how tank designers are always playing both cat and mouse in that way. They're trying to design the best armor possible and the best way to defeat it.
The 16inch shells were tested and penetration rated at more than 30 degree impact angle, the ballistic nose was a flimsy thing only intended for aerodynamics.
I took my little brother to see the New Jersey in Sydney in the mid 80s . We lined up for about an hour to go on board , up below the mast area was an armed sailor in green camo you could hardly see him . It was a fairly warm day and there were people using the guns for shade . What really impressed me was the huge plaque laid into the deck which basically said on this spot is where the Japanese signed the surrender on the Mighty Mo . It blew my mind !! Back then it looked like the ship was 5 miles long , people looked like ants , just a truly magnificent experience I will never forget . Also that day we went on the Illustrious the English carrier with its Harriers and Sea Kings . One thing that amazed us was about mid- ship was a small section under the deck which you could look down in was a huge Sea King folded up like a transformer in this little cavity . Just standing there looking at the New Jersey I wondered to myself ...... how the hell does this thing float !!!
There were also the experimental Martlet sabot rocket rounds from project HARP. Although never intended for use on the Iowa class, they could have potentially developed into extended range rounds; if battleships and big guns had not given way to carrier groups.
I served on the USS New Jersey BB-62 off Beirut. We took out a mountain. A tunnel was being used as an ammunition depot. Fired for a while, hours. When the guns fired you would pick up your cup or the contents would splash out. I still have a few photos where the shells are visible as they exit the fireball. As loud as the guns are, the concussion on the body was more impressive. Nothing else like it. Bridge windows were rolled down. And we would all drop down when a full charge was fired. 600 lbs of powder per gun. 9 guns. 5,400 lbs in one broadside.
Don't recall seeing the Desert Storm damage, just hearing of concrete bunkers being turned to gravel and the Air Force wanting those guns somewhere else, since the mult-million dollar laser guided penetrators were supposed to show why the Air Force budget increase was so critical. Navy wanted more planes and carriers, so they were agreeable. Think is was a tossup for the Army, having to call in for support, but they always preferred having large guns within range to call up over waiting for a pilot to finish his coffee and go warm up his plane.
Anyone wanting to 'hear' a good simulation of a 16" shell passing overhead? Go down to your local fast-freight rail track, turn your back and close your eyes. In Vietnam, we heard what seemed like a aerial freight train pass overhead from many miles away and then await for the mini-earthquake when they landed.
One early morning driving back to New York from Boston i actually pulled over and had the luxury of having The Battleship USS Massachusetts all to myself. It was just my cousin and myself and i explored every crevice of the ship, it was amazing being on The Bridge looking over those massive forward gun turrets. I was coming back from a car show at The Lars Anderson car museum and happened to see this massive ship off to the side of the highway and just had to check it out and I'm glad I did. Turned out to be "Battleship Cove". The ship actually had a hole in the turret armor from a shell during the battle of Leyte Gulf, it had to be like 6 inches thick😮
A retired USMC Colonel told me of how he went on leave to a recreation area in Vietnam. After that, he returned to his company and resumed patroling as a platoon leader. First time out, it got ugly. Traps, ambushes, and the sense they were about to be hit by a considerable force. So he radioed in a "panic grid". This was a call for artillery fire to saturate an entire 1000 meter by 1000 meter map grid. Problem was, nobody had told him that while he was gone the battery that did that was relocating to a new base. And that fire support was temporarily from an Iowa. In came the 16 inch! Trees were uprooted and flung into the air. Dirt and mud and unbelievable concussions. His men were shocked and somewhat out of it. His battalion commander came out by helicopter just to see the chaos. The lieutenant asked him, "You got anymore of that?"
In 1969 I was in Vietnam, in the Navy, ashore on the South China Sea, while a battleship fired its guns from beyond the horizon at sea. The shells went over our heads and landed out of sight inland of my position on the beach. Two sets of thunder, with whooshing sounds overhead. Pretty impressive but it was not a good feeling having the shells flying overhead. I never saw the ship.
Seems surreal now but we were at Phu Bia south of Hue during Tet and heard those little freight train sounding rounds going right over our heads. They told us they were from the New Jersey 💥
My grandfather was a 30mm gunner on the USS San Francisco CA-38. He told me he had to clean up his friends with a dustpan and broom. He shot the Kamikazes down.
@@yankees29 Yes, he recalls the barrel changing duty to be more strenuous. He was so deaf for the rest of his life. He had severe hearing problems due to the concussions. I'm just glad he made it off that boat in 1 piece.
I was assigned on USS Wisconsin BB64 and let me tell the percussion force that hit your chest and the heat when the 16” went off was the BEST FEELING IN THE WORLD during Desert Shield/Desert Storm. I miss her so much!! OS2 Chris Harrell (Cuz)
I got a photo of the sun rising over the deck of the New Jersey on Yankee Station in the Gulf of Tonkin back in 1971, wow what a warship. I was on an ammunition ship and we would pull up alongside the ship we were replenishing, match speeds, then a bosun on our main deck with a shotgun would fire a dowel with an elaborate string and shellac head on it called a monkey's paw across the bow of the other ship. Attached to the monkey paw was a small rope which would be connected to a winch (it was already connected to our winch). Attached to that rope was a much larger rope which in turn was attached to a large steel cable. Once the cable was in place between the winches, pallets of munitions would begin to flow. Afterward, other things like mail, and even personnel might be transferred back and forth. All that took a number of very skilled people doing their jobs almost perfectly, every time. I'm proud to have served even though I thought Vietnam was a huge blunder, then and now.
Those 16" projectiles are even bigger than I remembered. I remember someone telling me that they weighed the same as a Corvair (a GMC compact car being made at the time) and could hit targets with great accuracy, twenty-three miles away. Today, we just use a Tomahawk and put it through a specific window.
Right, but given the 31.5" projectiles the German "Schwerer Gustav" railway gun was able to send 47km (or some 30 miles) away makes these battleship cannons look like water pistols....
@@jsn7123 Germany was good a making great big technical things on paper that would outperform US systems on paper. But in reality of warfare where it is all about manufacturing and logistics it made no sense to produce such big systems that could not easily be replaced or even deployed.
Regarding the sound of flying cannon shells, I have been on an artillery range when 155mm howitzers were firing shells over us at targets downrange. As they went overhead, they made a sort of whistling or whooshing sound, kind of like a jet plane going by. When the sun glinted off them just right you could even see them. 155mm is about 6.1", a lot smaller than a 16" shell, so I can only imagine that sound scaled up.
In Lebanon we had a salvo of 155s going assist right overhead, like being alongside a freight train on a downhill. Scared the s out of our young green officer. And this is only about 1/3 the size of the 16"!
This video was so informative! Impressive. My father served on the USS Trathan (destroyer) as a fire control technician during the Korean War. Shot the guns. At North Korea they were lobbying shells at caves above the beaches. The USS Missouri was offshore about 20 miles shelling the same tunnels dads ship was hitting. Dad told us they could hear the 16in shells over his destroyer making a “whooshing” sound as they went overhead. The sides of the mountain would come down when the shells from the Missouri hit. Massive destruction. I cannot imagine what happened to the North Korean soldiers who were in the caves.
The Navy considered mounting 18" guns but decided against it as they could achieve the same result with volume of fire as the 16" fired faster and had 3 guns per turret instead of 2.
18” were never considered for the Iowa’s. It would have required massive increase in displacement, as well as increases in the beam if triple turrets were used, all of which would have required great reduction in tonnage available for machinery , and would have greatly reduced speed. They would also not have been able to use the Panama Canal.
@@scrappydude1 Agreed! The problems and logistics of gaining those extra two inches of diameter in firepower on a ship would quadrupled at the very least. The IJN built specific use ships for their 18" guns. I doubt an Iowa class could even be retrofitted to accept a twin turrrent of 18" rifled barreled guns.
While in the US Air Force and stationed in Vietnam, I had an occasion to visit a guarded ammo dump with a friend. There I took pictures of mostly 2,000 and others of similar pound bombs used by B-52s, But then we came upon a much larger bomb, It was not laying down on its side like most of the others. If was sideways cradled in thick wood. It was a 15,000 pound bomb and as I understand it was used to blow away trees in the forest to make an emergency landing area for helicopters, as was mentioned in this article. The bomb I saw was not as long as the one shown for the NJ battleship, it had a much wider section though. Also, the bomb I stood next to with my arm resting over the top for a picture had large hooks on top to be picked up and then dropped rather than be shot out of a naval vessel.
If I remember correctly, when testing the turret faceplate from the Shinano, it was at a distance of 5km but they used a reduced powder load. So the shell hit the faceplate at the same velocity that it would have at 20km if they had used a full charge.
Correct the powder load was adjusted for the range which was so short to ensure a hit. It was a common testing procedure on gun's of this size and larger land artillery pieces.
It still wasn't a realistic test, especially since it was a 0° impact angle. In reality, it was fairly unremarkable that a 16" gun would penetrate that amount of armor at that angle. What made ship armor more effective in reality was the different angles, layers of armor and other variables that wouldn't be present in a test.
I think you are dismissing the forensics analysis of Bismarck's wreck too easily. The images attached to said analysis do have a surprisingly good resolution. Apparently they got the rover really close to the wreck, which did pay off. I'm actually not surprised that the analysis didn't find a lot of penetrations on Bismarck's armor - simply because of the sheer percentage of tonnage that was devoted to armor plate. Percentage-wise Bismarck and Tirpitz had more of their tonnage devoted to armor than even Yamato (40+% compared to a little over 33%). And given Bismarck used the outdated turtleback armor scheme, it meant that by closing the distance the Royal Navy made it unnecessarily hard for itself to deal proper damage to Bismarck's citadel - because that is precisely what the turtleback is supposed to counter.
Bismarck and Tirpitz were built to be tanks inside 10,000 yards. Their turtlebacks were called outdated by some at the time but you have to remember there were only ever two classes of battleships in the world that could outrun a Bismarck.
@@jeffreynagy7112 If my memory is correct the reason why the Kriegsmarine went with a turtleback style armor scheme was specifically because of the weather conditions of the intended area of operations. The North Sea and Northern Atlantic are notorious for bad sea states particularily in the form of bad visibility. The thought being that the increased chance of bad weather meant there would be a very high chance of engagments being at shorter than usual ranges. I do not think though that I am alone in my opinion that the disadvantages of a turtleback layout far outweigh the benefits and that by WW2 the doctrine that surrounded it's implimentation (That being shorter ranges because of incliment weather and lighting conditions) was already DOA because of the implementation of accurate search and fire control radars in the Royal Navy.
I was blessed to have worked on all the battleships at Ingall’s Shipbuilding in Pascagoula, Ms. they went through rebuilds prior to being taken out of service.
My Grandpa told me a story of when he was in Vietnam this thanksgiving. He was out on a patrol or some sort during a bombardment, he said "the shells from the battleships sounded like freight trains flying over my head"
I went on the USS Missouri when it was in the mothball fleet in Bremerton, Washington in 1982. Then saw and felt the USS New Jersey shoot in the late 80”s. We were about 2 miles away and we could still feel the confusion when they fired. This was just before the tragic accident.
Interesting, the more things change the more they stay the same. On the old wooden sailing war ships one of the greatest dangers to the crew was from wood shrapnel. Same principle, but now it’s metal shards instead of wood. Unfortunately, the end result is the same for any unlucky crew member.
I was at Cua Viet in 69 and got to watch the New Jersey firing at targets inland. She looked absolutely enormous sitting there off the coast. I remember when she'd fire there would be a double report from the 16" guns, the sound barrier I suppose. She was also firing salvos from her twin 5" gun mounts. Someone told me she was firing the 16" guns to collapse tunnels, don't know if that was true.
I have experienced them being test fired. I say experienced because there is no way that a video can properly convey it. The world shakes for miles around. Even well behind the gun the concussion wave is awe inspiring. I cannot image being on the wrong end of that mighty blast.
The way I used to explain the difference between the two projectiles was that the AP was for shooting at other shops, (especially bettleships), and the HE was for firing at land targets. The main reason why naval gun fire support was not effective against the Japanese held island defenses was because the HE shells could not reach a high enough angle to punch through and explode. Dud they do some damage? Yes! I've seen pics from Iwo where battleship shells had completely blew a concrete bunker with a heavy gun, off its foundation. But unfortunately, they couldn't do enough.
The unsuccessful naval bombardment of Eniwetok was a lesson-leaned by the US Navy, when they bombarded Iwo Jima they also used aircraft bombing-both naval and USAAF. B-24's carpet bombed some of the deep fortifications near the beaches.
Explosion, the museum at Priddy's Hard has a fascinating display of shells ranging from 4.5" to 18." The 18" from monitors (formerly HMS Furious) scored hits at up to 30 miles in 1918. That would have been something to see.
I was on a destroyer that normally operated with the carrier Hornet off the coast of VietNam in 1969. We got pulled off and sent on a naval gunfire support mission so I thought, OK that's going to be a lot of noise like it usually is...but this time we were running a little ahead of the New Jersey. When we doubled back, the New Jersey was firing right over us - 9 barrel volleys, sometimes less. It sounded like thunder, then there was a much stronger sonic shock after that, followed by what sounded like several jumbo jets coming over at about 50 ft. altitude. After a few seconds, when the shells hit, there was a distorted mushroom cloud that contained rocks, water, dust, trees...whatever was at the target. We were firing our six 5" 38s and getting good reports from our spotters, but everyone was watching the New Jersey.
Those Battleships are amazing. I've been obsessed with the Iowas and Yamato ever since I was a little kid. I daydream that at least one of the Iowas was still active and re-re-fitted with contemporary systems AND still those 16" cannons lol. I can dream.
I admit i have had in my imagination the idea of some rapid tech advancements in gunnery allow railguns and the Iowas are gutted and totally modernized and given nuclear engineering plant. The turrets now mounting 9 railguns.
I believe even up until very recently, the the Navy's agreement about the New Jersey being a museum was that it could be reactivated at anytime, therefore certain things, like the propeller reduction gears, etc, are kept lubed and locked. They may have permanently decommissioned it in the last few years I'm not sure, I'll have to re-watch some of the videos.
On a weapons-logistics shipcheck out of LBNSY in 1986, the Missouri fired at an island off the So. California Coast. They had dawn a 1,000 yard circle, with a golf flagstick in the center. The footage revealed that the stick was obliterated, and only 1 crater was outside the strike zone. The range was 20 miles....Also, a concrete bunker was installed there, and it too, was obliterated.
In 1968, I was on top of a bunker at the Marble Mountain transmitter site next to 3rd Amtrac watching the New Jersey fire her 16" guns and it was very impressive. The transmitter site was next to the beach and the New Jersey didn't seem like it was all that far off shore when she was firing.
Time delay is 0.033 second and is in the base of the Armor-Piercing (AP) Mark 8 projectile (2700 pounds total weight and 4.5 calibers (projectile diameters of 16") = 6'). It has a thick AP cap (hardened steel crash helmet, in effect) covering its nose to protect the nose when it hits thick hard-faced steel armor, like the side armor on a battleship, and that forms the base of the pointed nose that has the sheet-metal pointed windscreen above it to give the projectile a streamlined shape to reduce air resistance (big rifle bullet shape!). The tiny explosive charge, also in the base, is there to spread around the pieces of the projectile by blowing up after the projectile gets deep into an enemy target, originally another battleship, because ships are so big that just punching tiny 16" holes only has a tiny chance of hitting something important. AP rounds are now much less useful, of course, since after WWII very few armored warships remained in service very long. 1900-pound large-explosive-charge High Capacity (HC) projectiles in two types: Mark 13 with solid hardened steel nose tip to use a short-delay (0.01 second) base fuze; an instantaneous impact nose fuze; or a clockwork nose time fuze preset just prior to loading or the later Mark 14 with a proximity ("VT") nose fuze -- passes near something and explodes due to a tiny radar in the nose, though a direct hit straight in front of the shell will cancel the radar and act like an impact fuze. These projectiles are much more useful against a large number of different targets by choosing which one to fire at them. They also have a much bigger explosion when they are set off by their fuze, whichever one it is selected to use. They are shorter at only 5' 4" high and usually fired at a lower velocity than the AP shells.
I remember as a kid hearing tales of how accurate Iowa Class Battleship 16 inch guns were. How good were they really? How close can you reliability be when shooting at something 15 to 20 miles away?
I recall reading an article in Guns and Ammo around 1989 that put their accuracy at sub minute-of-angle. If I remember correctly, they could consistently hit an area smaller than a football field at 20 miles. Teenaged me was pretty impressed reading that article.
Hey Ryan and crew, we actually know what a 16" Mark 8 would do to a Battleship. Look up the battle damage from Operation Torch suffered by Jean Bart at the hands of South Dakota's gunnery. There is a picture of the bow just forward of the #1 turret which shows the front hull nearly separated from a Mark 8 landing there during the battle. Pretty epic hole. EDIT: It was Massachusetts, still a South Dakota Class
@@kenstahler6010 actually the 50 caliber isn’t in reference to the bore like a .50 cal. It’s the barrel length. Large guns tend to have the length measurement listed in number of times longer than the bore. So these guns are 16x50 inches long. WWII German antitank guns used the same system in their names, the 88mm l/71 (“long 88”) being 71 “calibers” long.
@@kenstahler6010 You are correct, the SoDaks had 45 Cal rifles with a slightly lower muzzle velocity. It is said they were better deck penetrators than the 50's.
Sailed on the Iowa. Their impact is scary impressive. There are some interior areas you can observe, because you do NOT want to be on deck when they are firing.
The D-Day bombardment was largely a failure. Which is why casualties were so high. The men were told the beaches would be full of craters they could find cover in. When they hit the beaches there wasn't a crater to be found. Point du Hoc was empty too. The guns had been moved inland. Aerial bombardment was also hampered by the crews having to wait before dropping their payloads. The navy was worried about bombs falling short. None of those bombs landed anywhere near the beach as a result. I think they were told to wait a minute after they crossed to coast? It was a joke!
@@1pcfred High casualties? It was like a walk in the park. They landed over 150000 troops that day and lost ~4400. We germans lost somewhere between 4000 and 9000.
@@1pcfred Landing in Normandy on D-Day as an allied soldier was like one of the safest places in the war if you look at percentage lost. For comparison: for WW2 as a whole, US rifleman had a 18% chance of getting killed, while US tank crews had a chance of 8%, vs soldiers on the beaches of normandy: 3%.
This WILL get buried, but the US realized in the early 1920s, with the introduction of the Colorado Class and 16" AP Mk II, that low C/M (charge to mass ratio) in shells allowed for an incredible increase in penetration. If you run the numbers, even British Greenboy shells or World War Two 15"/42 shells with a .02 or .025 C/M lag notably behind the penetrative capability of .015 C/M ratio shells fired out of the 14"/50 standards. I believe they are behind even the 14"/45 penetration with .015 C/M, but I cannot check the numbers right now and do not want to be wrong. The Japanese were also very aware of the advantages of the 1.5% C/M, and though their guns were not as powerful in raw numbers, this extra penetration allowed them to make the best use of their 16" ships.
Okay, this answers one of the questions I have had through this whole video, as I was wondering why the size of the charge was so small (~150lb), relatively speaking, given the overall weight of the projectile itself (~2,700lb). I assume this only applies to the AP rounds. Any information on the high explosive shells? I am still not finding good numbers on the exact explosive payload they carry, especially in comparison to something like a 1000lb GBU.
@@Laotzu.Goldbug that 150 pound charge refers to the HE shell. The AP is as low as 40.9 pounds. However, it's not directly comparable with a Mk83 LDGP or equivalent guided bomb. The majority of the damage from that comes from the high explosive itself, while the battleship shells have imparted energy from the impact, the bursting charge, and most critically, the shrapnel the HE shell throws. It's not as efficient as a conventional bomb, but it's very effective in its own way. Thicker shell walls and a smaller charge mean more large pieces of shrapnel, which can do more damage to individual objects around the area of impact. navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.php Here's a good website that will tell you about the ammunition for the 16" gun. The rabbit hole goes very deep on this topic, so I tried to condense things down as much as I could.
While touring the U.S.S. Iowa in San Pedro, our docent spoke of a South Korean man who had visited. He was a young boy in a small coastal village during the Korean War, and the villagers were in great fear as approaching North Korean troops got close enough to see. Then, out of nowhere, those troops were decimated by a series of massive explosions. Looking out to sea, a ship's dark silhouette was on the horizon, her big guns flashing in anger. The kid later found out his village's salvation came from the U.S.S. Iowa, and when the ship became a museum it was his dream to visit her. That was a pretty cool story.
Awesome 👌
My dad was on the Iowa at that time.
Most of the time, it's the village that got slaughtered..
I would take any story from a tour guide with a grain of salt. They tend to invent stories, especially sentimental ones. Ship museums are particularly bad about that.
@@jonrmartin OK negative Nancy
A friend was in Vietnam, taking heavy fire from a small island in the mouth of a river flowing into the sea. They called for artillery, none in the area. A voice on the radio said “this is the USS New Jersey, we believe we’re in range, give us coordinates.” They did so, and New Jersey said “we’ll fire one round for effect from main battery, then you can walk us in.” From over the horizon, something roared out of the sky like the fist of an angry god. Debris, branches, mud, etc. were still falling when New Jersey said “how close are we to that island?” Long pause, then “what island?” Danny was always impressed by that…
I hear a lot f the "sounded like a train coming" stories, but the shells were supersonic so you wouldn't hear a damn thing until it had passed by and then it would be the crack of a sonic boom. Likely about the moment of the impact if near enough for a support role.
@@mytech6779 ,,DUDE ! Why you trying to ruin it for us, the " fist of an angry god " part was a nice touch , your one of those that likes delivering the bad news to the next of kin
@@mytech6779 the shells travel in a high arc, so as I recall the long drawn out rumble of the distant gunfire and sonic boom of the shell travelling upward should arrive before the shell completes its arc, creating a slow deep rumble like a freight train.
@@mytech6779 It's also likely that the sonic boom and detonation are what they heard and are referring too, as that would fit the description used.
@@kyleheins I actually did the calculations before posting that, the straight line ground speed is still over mach 1.1 even in the worst case arc and accounting for air drag. ( 45deg firing,[max range] to sea level target. lower angle eg 30 deg or to a target at higher elevation results in a much higher ground speed. )
A good friend of mine told this story about the New Jersey in Nam. He was with a sweep in the north looking for Charlie when his platoon stepped into a clearing and drew gunfire from the village. The marines were used to 105s but none could hit the village. Aircraft were temporarily unavailable and DaNang suggested the New Jersey off shore. My friend laughed and said we are 18 miles from the coast. A few seconds later the a voice crackled over the radio saying he was on the Con of the New Jersey and asked for their coordinates. He gave them the coordinates and was told to back up one grid square. My friend was used to the precision of the marine and army 105s laughed at how inaccurate the Naval fire was that he had to get 1/4 mile away. HE HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS COMING. He called back a confirmed his location and the target local and the officer on the battleship asked how many racks did he want. My friend, not knowing what a rack was, said give me what you got. The New Jersey elevated all 9 guns and fired a broadside. My friend said that even though he was 1/4 mile away trees fell within his sight. The village was a 40 foot deep hole about 100 yards round. The officer then said “fire for effect?” To which my friend said “no please no more”. Naval guns, WOW.
I LOL for a good minute on no please no more part of it.
This much of destructive power explains also the enormous civilian casualties on the Viet Kong side and in rural Viet Nam. Excessive fire power to suppress a relentless and defiant insurgency.
Elephants rumble, grass gets crushed. As has been so for millenia 😢
@@excelgazialimuhiddinhacibekir chit happens
@excelgazialimuhiddinhacibe6818 That's why it's important to not f**k with the wrong person 😂
You’re right civilians casualties turned to locals against war wouldn’t help Americans weren’t any better than South Vietnamese govt
Hey Ryan, so glad to see a focus on the New Jersey! I was a Marine in Vietnam 68-70 and the most impressive experience was the naval gunfire support from the New Jersey's 16 inchers firing over us. We were on one side of a hill facing the South China Sea, and the Jersey's target was in the valley on the other side of our hill. When the barrage started, we didn't know what the HELL was going on! Then word came down it was the New Jersey!
We could actually see the ship out there (a small dot on the horizon) but when they fired, the orange flash was not a small dot! The sequence was impressive - the flash, a couple seconds later the sound of the guns firing, then the shock wave through the air (felt like it was pulling the skin on your face back). The rounds going overhead sounded like a freight train, then the explosion where they hit was an earthquake... WOW!
I was exposed to plenty of Bang-Bang over there, but the day we got support from the New Jersey was the most impressive!
Thank you Jeff for sharing your experience. Was wondering if anyone who saw this video was there in Nam and would comment. Thank you for your service!
A friend flew F-4's over there, one time as a FAC for the 16" guns on the battle ship. He could see the them coming over in the air, and once one got too close and the shock wave bounced the Phantom in flight.
@Russian Bot - Slava Ukraini would you like some American cheese to go with your communist wine
@@vvt7825 Hm yes, the man's username is Russian Bot so it makes sense why he probably acts like Communist.
@Russian Bot - Slava Ukraini There has been war since man has been on the earth… it’s unfortunate, but good luck with changing human nature. I have no shame about serving in the military. I would guess that you are young and IDEALISTIC- get hip to REALITY.
A few years ago, I was at Point d; Hoc in Normandy. 75 years after D-Day, it still looked like the face of the Moon. And a bunch of those craters were from the 14 inch guns of USS Texas. Impressive as hell.
I was going to post the same experience! It's very impressive, especially when you consider that those craters have nearly 80; years of weathering on them!
Interesting fact about the Texas during D-Day. She was I believe 12000 yards off the coast and fired 250 rounds in 30 minutes in support of the landings. After emptying her magazines, sailed to the rear took on more munitions then sailed back to the front. By that time the allies had pushed the Germans so far back the Texas no longer had the range to reach the Germans. So she sailed to within 3000 yards the closest she could get then they flooded one of her blister tanks listing the ship to give the guns more angle giving them ability to hit the Germans farther inland.
@@racer3886 Thanks for the story!
Nice
@@racer3886 VERY interesting details.
In 1968 as a young Marine Reconnaissance team leader, I had the New Jersey as naval gunfire support while on patrol in Vietnam. We observed 20 NVA soldiers from our vantage point and I called in gunfire from the famed battleship on the enemy troops to deadly effect. I can remember thinking, "when I'm old and gray, I can tell people what I did over there". Scary and exhilarating, my Vietnam service was the most important and impactful moments of my life. Thanks for a great video.
Vietnam was brutal.
Respect to ya
Roger that! Army. In ‘70, my unit was tasked with guarding a tank farm (fuel) just north of Qui Nhon. We had hostile fire and were severely outnumbered that night. There were reports of up to 5000 NVA from S2 Intelligence. We called in fire support from the USS New Jersey. They hit so close, we left the ground and debris landed all around us - among other things.
I’ve always sworn, I will visit that great ship and kiss her deck. It’s possible our unit would have been overrun.
I recall the rounds flying overhead sounding like a low flying jet. We braced and were in no way mentally prepared for the impacts, especially those that hit closest to us. I’ll never forget.
This is the first time I’ve ever seen a 16” round. Damn. They’re huge.
You're a hardass old timer
Waging an illegal war of aggression for your country's corporate masters was the best thing you ever did? Your life must suck.
So much killing you did over there. And for what?
I was trained as a Naval Gunfire Liaison Officer. While training at San Clemente firing range, we had an afternoon off and the Gunny loaded us up in a deuce and a half and took us to the beach. At one point he pulled off the road and into a nice cozy little spot, it had about 7 foot pile of dirt going around three sides, just perfect for the truck to fit in, or a good place for cover for a tank or artillery piece. "Gentlemen, this was made by the impact of a 16" BL&P round from the New Jersey." Blind, Loaded and Plugged is essentially a dummy round with no explosives.
Reading comments from all you veterans is fascinating. What a priveledge. Thank you!
I served almost four years on Battleship IOWA. When we would go off shore at Vieques, an island the Navy used for a firing range, when a 2,200 pound round would hit, it left a 50 foot diameter and 30 feet deep crater. Before the use of Remote Piloted Vehicles that were fitted with cameras and computer that fed target acquisition to the ship, a couple of Marines were on the island providing target coordinates to the ship of where to put the rounds, they would say you could hear the round come whistling in and when it hit, they felt like their heart was coming out of their chest. When you can put a round the weight of a Volkswagen 25 miles away directly on target, that’s awesome. Reporters would come onboard and video a Battleship Broadside (all guns fired Simultaneously from port or starboard), we’d tell them they needed to brace themselves or they would go flying along with their cameras. Most didn’t listen and they would end up on their asses about 10-15 feet from where they were standing. Hilarious! Nine 16” rounds and the 5”/38 guns would put out a lot of flame and could destroy a small city. I loved my tour on IOWA where you learned what the real Navy was like.
Yes, this is GREAT Comment to remind the World also about that Puerto Rico and Puerto Ricans (NOT the Mexicans) played a Strategic roles in the Wars of WI, WII, KOREA, Vietnam, ...Etc. WARS VICTORIES. So, the USA owns EVERYTHING to Puerto Rico and to the Puerto Rican People, a lot more than RESPECTS.
American 16inch HE shells have large amount of explosive charge. even larger than that of Yamatto HE shells.
@@jayvee8502I had a political science teacher from San Diego state say it wouldn’t even dent her bmw car if it was 3 feet away . Battleships went away because they can no longer damage things …. If they could they would still be in the navy now. As a ex navy sailor it was very insulting. I served from USS Nimitz(2009-2014) who did a cruise with the Iowa and had her do a shoot for memorial and tiger cruise purposes and for the mayor it was special.
@@neubauerjosephshe sounds like a moron. They seem insanely powerful
@@neubauerjoseph sorry but your teacher was a fool. Time they visit the real world.
Awesome video, Ryan. I got to watch my Destroyer performing gunnery exercises off San Clemente Island in 1986. I was impressed with those 5" 54's while sitting on the fantail with binoculars watching the rounds hitting the island. Then the Missouri started shelling the island firing over us from about 5 miles further out (we were about 8 miles from the island). The resulting explosion was like comparing 22 long rifle to a 10 gauge shotgun slug! I could hear those round overhead and about the time we saw them impact we could hear the report from her guns. Very impressive.
My brother was telling me a few weeks ago about a similar experience from his frigate, same place & battleship, also in the mid 80s. Said it made Army 8" howitzer rounds look like firecrackers (he was Army Guard when he got out of the Navy). Having watched & felt 8" rounds come in myself, I can't imagine what 16" are like.
Sad part is those were most likely practice rounds that are lighter with less explosive so not to wear out the Rifling in the barrel
@@ryansouthworth668 always wondered how much collateral damage was caused by 50 caliber bullets shot at planes, at sea n on land, 2 -3 miles tragectory at least!!
@@ryansouthworth668 by explosive you mean less propellant? Or actual payload of explosive in the shell? I can understand the second not the first as conductive to barrel life.
@@tommyblackwell3760 My ship was the USS Robison DDG-12. This was part of the build up to deployment training for a tour in the Persian Gulf.
When I was a boy I worked at the munitions factory in New Jersey that made these shells. My job was to empty the metal scrap barrels from each lathe. Three tons on the lathe, 1.5 tons when they came off. Three lathes, each one made 4 shells a day. Was very impressive watching these machinists.
So a single broadside is almost a full days work for a crew of skilled machinists? Bloody hell...
Imagine an entire factory spending a month, working flat out, just to have NJ burn it all in a quarter hour :'(
@@Binkophile Great news for the machinists though; because any major exercise or battle ensured new orders, thus staying in a job.
I live in Jersey also. Were is this shop? And how many rounds a day were possible to make? There must have been many shops to keep up with demand
@@kevinverduci7600 Morris County..12 shells a day..mebbe there were more factories scattered about. Never looked like we kept inventory on hand..it all got shipped
That's crazy. I'd expect them to be cast iron. Machining shells sounds like BS but what do I know
I was in the Navy in San Diego in 1968, 1969. I have always felt privileged that I was able to watch the New Jersey enter the harbor while I was there. She was a huge long ship. It was an incredible view.
I had a friend who was an artillery controller in Korea who had one mission with a battleship that "gave" him 3 salvos broadside to a target on a mountain top 22 miles inland those 3 salvos cut 50 feet off the top of the mountain. (he had the surveyors measure) The Chinese took the resultant gravel for sand bag filler and dug in even more. He did say it was an epic visual as 27 rounds plowed into the granite.
:)
Nice
Sounds like it was time for another salvo or two while they were filling bags,
Each time they shorten the mountain, more chinese could fit in, it's like a combo in a figjting gamex each salvo kills more.
@@danielboatright8887
The US did not use all the might of its power in Korea like it did in WW2. It was normally limited operations exercising only a fraction of manpower.
If the US had of taken the gloves off and threw much larger scale of resources they would have done far more damage to the Chinese in Korea.
My Uncle Pete certainly thought the 16-inch shells worked well. He was a young Marine on the beaches in the Pacific (Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, etc.) and said you could see the shells going overhead. When they hit the mountains, large parts of the mountain(s) disappeared. He was quite impressed and very happy that they were *our* guns being used against the enemy and not vice versa.
My small unit in Vietnam was stationed near the South China Sea in 1968. I was worling in our Signal Maintenance Shop one day and heard a sound that could have been either incoming or outgoing rounds. I stepped outside to check it out and saw a ship out on the sea. We had a neat little surveyor's transit that came out of the Air Force salvage yard that made a handy telescope. I set it up on a stepladder and when I focused on that ship, which I thought was a destroyer. it turned out to be the New Jerseu. She was only firing one round at a time but it was still impressive. The sound took 23 seconds to reach us.
I remember reading in the Stars & Stripes that they were using to New Jersey to knock out bunkers on the DMZ that were made out of eight inch reinforced concrete. B52 bombs would bounce of them. Seeing that ship in action was my most memorable moment in my nineteen months over there.
23 miles from you." Blimey!"
@@jackrichards1863 5 seconds is 1 mile
23 miles would be MAX range.... aka the shells would be dropping on the story teller
.
5.7 miles away from story teller is the REAL distance....
@@kainhall He writes ". The sound took 23 seconds to reach us." One mile per second is the speed of sound, so 23 miles. The direction the Jersey was firing does not have to be toward 'the story teller'. Five seconds is not 1 mile, pup!
In Vietnam we used the armor piercing rounds to penetrate caves. Especially when we used "super elevation" to drop them on the back side of a mountain. I sailed the last Vietnam cruise of New Jersey in '69. GQ station was either main battery plot or one of the main battery gun directors. I helped put her out of commission in Bremerton.
Thank you for your service sir.
I live in Bremerton and remember the USS New Jersey sitting in the mothball fleet at PSNS for years. Toured the Mighty Mo as a kid got a chance to get up close to the 16" guns. Very, very impressive.
@@henrydhamster1093 I live in NJ. Every time I drive into Philly, I get to see her moored at the Camden waterfront. Tens of thousands of people per day probably glance at her without a second thought while driving over the Ben Franklin Bridge, unaware that she's the most decorated vessel in US Naval history.
just genocide, you were not heroes.
Thank you for your Service.. God Bless you. "The Lady" was just taking a WELL DESERVED NAP....
As a Marine in Viet Nam around DaNang in 1969 I can tell you yes you can hears the rounds and they made great swimming pools 30+ ft around and 20 ft deep depending on the soil, they cleared everything but large Stands of Bamboo which were cut off at about 18" but did not make great LZ,s because of debris which had to be cleared first.
I'd still imagine it would still be easier then cutting it all down yourself though?
@jeff pentagon Landing Zone, to insert troops via helo ops, or as a re-supply drop area. ^v^
I had the honor of visiting the Mighty Mo twice while I was serving in the RCN. On one visit, I had the opportunity to talk to one of the gunners, and I asked what the range and accuracy of the 16" was. His reply was, "+/- 50 feet at 22 miles. But... it leaves a 100 foot crater, so....". We also did war games off Hawaii with the PAC fleet one year. Mighty Mo about 7 miles out from the target island, with our ship, HMCS Saskatchewan, in between Mo and the island. It's a surreal experience to see the fireball coming out of the 16" gun, followed by a long dull roar a couple of seconds after. Hearing the shell whistle by overhead, on it's way to vaporize a large chunk of real estate. Has to be seen to be believed.
A very good friend of mine was a ranger in Vietnam. He related a story to me about how one time he was spotting a bunker to be distorted. The Air Forced made strike after strike without destroying the target. Finally he called in a strike from the New Jersey. The first round landed on target. The bunker flew into the air and was destroyed.
Was the Air Force using dumb bombs? The first laser-guided bombs were dropped late in the Vietnam War, reducing the circular error probable quite a bit, down to New Jersey's error I would expect. As your friend's story indicates, near-misses against reinforced targets are unlikely to be effective, although I imagine life wasn't pleasant for anyone inside that bunker with bombs going off nearby.
@@danielmocsny5066 Sure, not that they could reminisce about those moments with the bunker and its inhabitants flying into the air in chunks.
@@danielmocsny5066 most of the bombs are dumb bomb and yes, some of them are still underground and sometimes explode in the habitant areas
@@danielmocsny5066 The Jersey had a fairly safisticated computer targeting system as you can imagine able to hit other ships at 23 miles so yeah, bye bye bunker.
Now worship the fact that that was done from several miles away on the slightly rolling vessel that serves as your gun platform. The calculations involved melts the average mind. You even have to take into consideration the rotation of the earth. Corealis(sic) effect. Windage. Basic trajectory. Timing between target and gun.
WOOPEE! From an old gunners mate, '72- '74.
I have personally seen the impact of 16 inch rounds. The impact crater is very impressive. We called them grid zone removers because anything there was just about gone.
How big is a grid zone, for those of us who don't eat crayons
@@seemslegit6203 Logical question
A grid square is 1000 meters long by 1000 meters wide for the unknowing people.
A square kilometre then !
@Robert Jones you're telling me a 16" round would destroy a square kilometer? Nah bruh. Flying shrapnel? Yeah i can give that one.
MLRS is the grid square remover
If you look at a detailed diagram of a WW2 era battleship turret, it is incredibly complex and a stunning work of engineering.
Yes! Several stories deep.
Some good vids on youtube.
@@offshoretomorrow3346 "Some good vids on youtube" like the ones on this channel? Ryan & the USS New Jersey Museum crew have done a few really detailed videos on the turrets
I was on the USS Buchanan in 1977 doing gunnery exercises with the mighty mo, what impressed me was how accurate it was. It was firing much farther out then we were.
Years ago when I was on the USS Luce, DLG-7, we were off the coast of an island off the coast of Puerto Rice Getting some firing time with our 5 inch 54. I worked on the missile system so a few of us went out and watched from the top of the missile house. We fired a few rounds and out of no where it sounded like a freight train passing over us. a few seconds later we heard a rumble from behind us. We could barely make out that it was a ship. It didn't take long to figure out what it was. It was the Battleship New Jersey that had just been reactivated and was getting ready to go to Vietnam. After a few rounds, we could see the flash, even in daylight and actually watch the rounds pass us and hit the island. Nothing but incredible.
My father was in Ordinance Corp in the Canadian Army during World War II specializing in fuses. He would point to you that armor piercing shells are fused in the base so the fuse will survive the initial impact. Thus your 16" shell has only a painted line on the smooth nose cone. The high explosive round has the fuse in the nose for immediate detonation and greatest effect. On it you can see the outline of the fuse projecting out of the nose.
Love all the stories about the grand lady! I worked with a guy in the early 80’s who was a electrician on the New Jersey during Vietnam. He told a story about some civilian techs coming onboard to install some type of new gear on the guns and after installation the guns had to be test fired. The techs had some apparently expensive tool boxes with some VERY expensive tools. When the guns were turned to firing position someone noticed that all these tool boxes were under the barrels. They told the techs that the boxes needed to be moved but whoever was in charged advised the boxes “were very well built & heavy” so they didn’t need to be moved. Well they proceeded with the test firing and after one salvo ALL the boxes were pushed over the side because the only way to open them was with a cutting torch!
My uncle was on the Big Mo but he never talked about his experience. It’s great getting to read through some of the veterans comments, you guys have definitely got some stories to tell. From one civi to all you vets, thanks for all you do.
Before we landed in Vietnam (1966) they shelled the area and it was quite a sight to behold. We had 155 mm but these put ours to shame - very impressive to watch. Brought back many memories.
I want to express my gratitude to this channel. I discovered it about two weeks ago, and to watch the production quality advance and Ryan becoming more confident has been awesome to watch. I am excited to see what this has to offer in the future.
Keep it up!
Off the coast of North Vietnam near Haiphong was a rock island in which was embedded radar station. Small naval guns attacked it without damaging it. Bombers sent bombs toward it without affect. I was on PIRAZ station. The Big J went past us and with two salvos blew half the island away the radar station with it. Before and after photos were sent to my ship, USS Long Beach CG(N)-9. That was 1968 I believe.
Thank you for your service Gary.
Hahahaha sounds about right, thanks for your service sir.
Step-dad was with the 47th, said they were like freight-trains over head at Normandy Saw a bunker devoid of bodies that a shell had pierced partial before detonation doors blow out tiny body parts and red stains . Those were 14" That pressure wave is highly destructive more so in a closed space. But they were always grateful for the offshore support. Highly Devastating in power and morale reduction in the enemy.
Big guns are truly awe inspiring. I read an account from a survivor from the Hood or Prince of Wales (sorry I can't remember which) from the engagement with the Bismark in WWII. He said near misses from the Bismark's main guns disrupted the air so badly it literally "tore screams from your lungs". I can't even imagine that.
Probably Prince of Wales, only 3 survivors from Hood
I heard this was associated with the Hood, but shall have to check.
My father was a signalman on Prince of Wales when she was one of the ships against Bismark. He mentioned the noise the shells made even when they missed too. Terrifying. He also saw the Hood going down . . or 'going up' was his description as a more accurate description. She had taken a direct hit to her midships magazines and sank in a matter of minutes.
@@dacutler I can well believe how terrifying war is, and to be in this battle, to the death must have taken some resolution to fight, against all odds.
We now live in a time of spineless individuals and because we have left off contending for what is good, honest, decent, no threats, real threats to our existence, and so we have become soft.
We owe more than memorials to those who fought for us, as my father said, for us, not for the government.
@@dacutlermy Mum's father was a gunnery officer on Prince of Wales, his brother went down with Hood.. never got to meet them..
My old SGM was an SF team SGT in Vietnam. They were watching a large NVA convoy approach a main road intersection and called in a fire mission, well as they waited he said "man it's taking a long time for those... " he stopped and told everyone on the team to run like hell. He'd realized it wasn't going to be 105mm hitting it, but 16" Navel gunfire from off shore. They made it to he reverse side of the hill just before the salvo impacted. Needless to say, the convoy was no more.
The convoy ceased to be, it was gone, reduced to atoms
Yeah that’s a real butt pucker situation
Naval gunfire
When I was an engineer in 1968-1971 working for the Naval Ordnance Station in Indian Head, MD, we made the propellant for the NJ's 16 inch guns. As I recall, it was a double base propellant made of some formulaic combination of nitrocellulose and nitroglycerin. We made it in little pellets a little bigger than the filter on a cigarette, then it went through a series of processes before it was turned into a slurry, then sent through a huge stainless steel extrusion die to shape it into whatever charge was necessary for the NJ's needs. The extrusion process was unattended and in an underground bunker with the extrusion press aimed at 10 ft concrete bunker walls and into the dirt. One day there was an 'accident' apparently caused by some metal getting into the slurry and it ignited, sending the two ton extrusion die through the 10 ft reinforced concrete and 30 ft into the soil. OOPS! Fortunately, no one was injured, but the press and bunker was destroyed.
I was in Vietnam on a mountain when the new Jersey fired over the mountain the shells sounded like a freight train going swooshing. Overhead and the explosion 💥 in the valley was tromendus we could see and feel the shock wave on the mountain the crater's left by the 16" inch shells were 13 ft wide and 20 ft deep it was awesome 👍 the most incredible sight I ever seen.
Wow! Thank you for your bravory, You guys should never owe a tax to this country. We should be paying you for risking your life. Thank you!
then they kicked your war mongering backsides
@@chipbuttytime3396 The NVA and Viet Cong lost every major engagement. But they had nowhere to go, whereas we did, so they won by attrition.
I'm sorry for my confusion. But did the shells land in a valley or on a mountain? The craters being deeper than wide just doesn't sound right to me. Any photos I have seen showing explosive created craters, they are typically wider than they are deep.
@@nkuntroll247 wondered the same thing
Thank you Ryan for all that you and your colleagues do in explaining the various munitions etc. As a British Royal Marine Commando I’m saddened by the the shortsightedness of our political “masters” and that only HMS Belfast survives from WW2 as a small example of the colossal power of the British Royal Navy.
Really, only the Belfast? Amazing considering you Brits do the best job of anybody honoring your great military history.
@@ToddDunning Here's the thing, after WWII, Britain was flat broke, and the economy went into a major recession. The Royal Navy didn't have the budget to keep the ships, or maintain them as museums, so they had to sell them for scrap.
@@ToddDunning there's also the destroyer H.M.S. Cavalier at Chatham and recently L.C.T. 7074 was restored and went on display at Portsmouth, but Belfast is the largest thing left. Both Belfast and Cavalier remained in service post WW2 so have various later modifications from their WW2 configuration. As already said, the UK was flat broke after the war, whatever didn't remain in service got sold, transferred or scrapped fairly quickly.
@@ToddDunning My observations indicate that its the US who probably do the most to honour their military and the people who served their country and protect many of us in countries who lack the recourses to effectively protect ourselves.
This was true in WW2 and if trouble comes again, we will look to America to shoo away those who seek to do us harm.
@@brucegibbins3792 I have a lot of respect for what America did in WW2, but it wasn't America who defeated the Luftwaffe and Kraigsmarine and Italian Navy and Air Force during key battles.
Iowa came alongside USS Midway I think it was 1988 or 89 (before the turret casualty obviously), pulled ahead of our fwd port quarter and let loose with those big guns. Holy s**t was that impressive. Shook the whole carrier, then I jogged over to the Stbd sponson and using a pair of binos, saw the big plumes of white water way, way out toward the horizon where the projectiles were hitting the water. I was a suitably impressed 18/19 year old. 1st time I saw a BB up close was around the same time frame, Missouri came alongside to get some fuel from us. Stood on the STBD sponson looking across and down at that ship, its teak decks...man, there was just something special about the battleships and while it was expensive to bring them back into service, felt lucky I got to see them in action underway, half-way around the world.
Ok doing some quick back of the envelope math a 50’ diameter crater 20’ deep works out to roughly 35,000 cubic feet of soil relocated at high velocity. Using a unit weight of 92 pounds per cubic foot gives us 3.22 MILLION pounds of soil moved in about a tenth of a second per shell. The amount of energy on display is nothing short of incredible
EDIT: I’ve changed the weight of soil to 80 lb/ft3 and the volume to 27,500 cubic feet based on the volume of a sphere accounting for the crater being wider than it is deep. I have now arrived at 2.24 million pounds of soil distributed to the surrounding area.
Don't forget to allow for a good part of the diameter not being max depth.
@@stevek8829 Yeah I actually redid the numbers using a partial volume of a sphere with a 50’ diameter and got like 2.68 million pounds, but it’s not a perfect sphere because the diameter is greater than the depth so it’s probably closer to 2.8-2.9 million pounds in that range. This is just back of the envelope math I could do an equation of a curve and set up an integral to find area and then volume but I’m way too lazy for that.
Is your soil half lead. How did you come up with 92pounds per cubic foot?
@@craigrobertson5030 If you cut a 1'x1'x1' block of turf out of your front yard that would be nearly spot on. Ground is not a bag of potting soil.
@@edsloan8535
Thank you, I am showing this to the wife,
So the next time she wants a fire pit, post holes, etc. Dug out.
She will understand why those "little holes" tire me out!
👍🤣
In 1968 I went to Miraflores Locks where my dad was working in the Control House and I got to watch the New Jersey come southbound through the last set of locks and enter the Pacific Ocean on her way to Vietnam. That was great to have the perfect vantage point to watch her come through. There were five canal pilots taking her through because of her wide beam, one senior pilot on the bridge and one pilot on each side of the forecastle and the stern to keep her centered in the lock chamber. They do this by radio to the mules to have them take in or let out cable on each side as there is only about 10.5 inches on each side. The lock chambers are 110 feet wide, and the ships beam is 108 feet 3 inches, so it is a very tight squeeze! Towing locomotives have always been called mules in the Panama Canal. In the twenty years I lived there (1953-1973) I got to see all of the Iowa's transit at least once, and they were the most beautiful ships to watch out of the thousands I saw go through. I also saw the Alabama go through as a dead tow on her way to Mobile to become a museum ship in 1965, also a tight squeeze. Battleships are just beautiful whether they have 45 (Alabama) or 50 (Iowa) caliber 16 inch guns.
My Uncle (RIP) was offshore of Iwo Jima while they bombarded the island with everything they could muster to enable the ground troops to go ashore with minimal casualties. He remembered how those BIG shells from the battleships flew overhead, so big they could see them! And hear them! He thought nothing could survive that onslaught, and yet- we all know the story. They didn’t just survive, they were ready for mortal combat when the troops waded ashore. But the point of the story is how BIG these shells were. He remembered watching them fly overhead. It was like launching small cars from a cannon.
LOL... when you consider the weight of the shells, it would be like "lobbing Volkswagen Beetles through the air at supersonic speed".
Well, I'm a former Marine, one of my 3 jobs was calling in Naval funfire, as such I was tought the different types, the 16" round being one of the, the interesting thing about them, from my perspective, was the :Detonating Radius, which was listed as 500M. over 1/4 of a mile. The detoanting radius was defined as the radius that will produce %50 caualties in exposed troops.
"my 3 jobs was calling in Naval funfire"
Some typo's are just too funny. lol I like this typo.
All respect sir, thank you for your service. However, as the proud father of an active Marine, it’s my understanding that there is NO such thing as a “former” Marine. Semper Fi…
@@mtlbstrd yeah, we are all warped permanently
@@mtlbstrd OohRah! ^v^
@@jeffconley6698 USMC = Uncle Sam's Misguided Children. ^v^
When i was in the Navy we were in a battle group with the USS New Jersey and you could see the 16" Projectiles flying over us like planes without wings. I saw that and would say, God that's going to hurt. You could not even see the landing of the rounds on land but could hear them like when they came out the barrel. I got to see Bob Hope and Brooke Sheilds on the Battle Wagon. She was a Beautiful Ship. I was in for 11 yrs and got out disabled Honorability Retired. The Gun Mounts made our 5" 54 look like Benjemin Pellet guns. With all respect to Her, this Man does not give this video Justice.... They Should have picked up a Gunner's Mate from 70's or 80's to make this video..... "Fair Winds and Following Seas" ...... Anchors Aweigh ......
I was on the USS THACH FFG-43. We went on a WEST PAC with the USS NEW JERSEY. We were the first Battleship group since WW2. It sure was nice to see her light things up. Quite a scene to see all the ships in formation. That was was in '86.
"This man does not give this video justice." Ya this man only works for the museum and has 1400 CZcams videos out describing basically every aspect of this class of battleship, but I guess we're all entitled to our opinions. Personally I think he does a great job.
I was in a Marine infantry unit in Vietnam which at times were in areas where the U.S.S. New Jersey would provide support. Rumors, etc. about the projectiles were different than the video above. Even though the ones in the video are impressive, the stories were of much bigger. But, I do have to say, the rounds coming in had a very unique sound, sort of like a freight train. We were always thankful for the Navy helping us out.
As far as the host's question about the way the rounds were designed, from my perspective, I think they did quite a good job.
I think the engineers know a WHOLE lot more about how to make those shells than anybody out here does. So I'd say they got the balance of steel to charge right. Thanks for sharing.
I was on topside when the 16 were firing and what a blast. A couple of the other sailors kind of freaked out. The rest as well as myself were hanging on. I still have a 5 inch shell.
I am a Plankowner of USS Wisconsin BB-64. As an FC that had his 1st GQ station inside Turret 2 I used to watch the fall of shot through the rangefinder.
As an HE round impacts the ground there is a flash a big cloud of sand and pieces of shrapnel flying away from the blast.
Firing at see we would fire a round painted blue. It was called BL and P - which stands for Blank, Loaded and Plugged. It is basically an inert round with no explosive charge. On impact of the sea it would cause a splash that was large enough to provide a radar image for the main battery fire control radar. This image was used to correct the spotting to bring subsequent rounds on target.
As a Marine in Vietnam in 1968-69 we had the New Jersey offshore in Yankee station for Naval gunfire duty. The craters and instant wells it made were testimony of it’s awesome power. Sometimes it was too close to use when we called for Naval unfriendly support and would need the 5” guns for close contact.
Must have been nice to have that kind of firepower available
Impressive!
its awesome
I have to say, watching your channel and learning about the Iowas and specifically New Jersey definetly has made me develop a fondness for the New Jersey specifically. Never knew that much about the Iowa class, but thanks to you guys they are now some of my favorite ships. Continue on with the great and informative work!
Radar registration required for 16 inch guns on New Jersey in 2 corp. Viet Nam 69. Gave target grid to fdc on ship. Each gun had to be test 3 times each Then all guns fire for effect. Each gun corrected then fire all guns at target grid which was a high hill When dust cleared hill was gone. Can’t imagine being shot at by those guns. Freight train thru a tunnel Then rounds had to go over us to target. Was Airborne. and found real respect for navy
A .50 BMG has a muzzle energy of about 19,000 ft lbf . The dreaded Pak 40 had a muzzle energy of 1,572,000 ft lbf. The AP shell fired from one of the 16/50 cal mark 7 guns was 262,309,884 ft lbf. Crazy energy. 😵
What is that in not-Big Mac units
@mr.tweaty 25.67kJ, 2131.34 kJ, and 355644.45 kJ respectively
@@stroso83 Holy f*ck
@@stroso83 I've always wondered this. How would you calculate the impact/explosive energy of a 16/50 HE round compared to a 2,000lb JDAM?
The penetrating power of those armour piercing shells into reinforced concrete is very impressive. The 22,000 pound Grand Slam bombs dropped in WW II were about 45% charge, with the other 55% being chrome molybdenum steel, could reach the speed of sound but couldn't penetrate anything like 30 feet of reinforced concrete. However, they did go straight through Tirpitz, but then battleships aren't armoured for that sort of projectile and direction of attack.
I had some business in L'Orient, France and they took me by the old German U-boat pens which had been bombed by big, deep penetration bombs. The locals told me that despite the size and speed of the bombs, they mostly bounced off the reinforced concrete and didn't penetrate the sub pens. The German Army retreated from there after the D-Day landings, but it had been in use up till then.
I was at Phan Rang AB in 1968/69 and remember watching the shells fly over our base during Tet and then feeling the concussion a few seconds later. And thanking the US Navy for helping us from being over run.
Thank you ! Im 55 but somewhat remember That era..I wish our government would eliminate taxes on you and pay you for risking your life. I'm grateful for you.thank you.
Thank you for your service !
As an F.O. in Viet Nam from 66 to 67 and having called in a number of 8 in and 16 in fire missions, we went on a mission in the DMZ . Having personally seen the craters from 8 in and 16 in Heavy Cruisers and Battle Ship, I can tell you they are HUGE and impressive. (the DMX looked like the surface of the moon).
I remember reading a book on the siege of Bataan and Corregidor during early WWII. The coast artillery batteries on Corregidor had quite an arsenal of 12” and 14” guns and 12” coast art. mortars. As. well as plenty of shells for them. Unfortunately almost all their fuses were time delay fuses for engaging armored ships. So when they fired them at ground targets on Bataan or Cavite, the shells would bury themselves deep underground before the time delay timed out. So all you got was a big shower of dirt and minimal damage if any. The Ordnance guys figured out how to remove the delay pellet, but it apparently wasn’t easy, and they could only convert 20 or 30 a day.
The deflection of the projectile as it penetrates the armor has always been the purpose of sloped armor protection or blisters. As a tanker, the SABOT round compensated for this deflection with the placement of a bearing nose cap on top of the tungsten penetrator. As the nose of the projectile contacted the armor, it would rotate upward, and this split second movement deflected the penetrator to a more perpendicular exposure to the armor. As a result, it was a rare thing to see a SABOT ricochet or not defeat the armor. With these big guns, it was more about volume of the fire on target so something was bound to get a good, solid hit.
It's fascinating how tank designers are always playing both cat and mouse in that way. They're trying to design the best armor possible and the best way to defeat it.
The 16inch shells were tested and penetration rated at more than 30 degree impact angle, the ballistic nose was a flimsy thing only intended for aerodynamics.
I took my little brother to see the New Jersey in Sydney in the mid 80s . We lined up for about an hour to go on board , up below the mast area was an armed sailor in green camo you could hardly see him . It was a fairly warm day and there were people using the guns for shade . What really impressed me was the huge plaque laid into the deck which basically said on this spot is where the Japanese signed the surrender on the Mighty Mo . It blew my mind !!
Back then it looked like the ship was 5 miles long , people looked like ants , just a truly magnificent experience I will never forget . Also that day we went on the Illustrious the English carrier with its Harriers and Sea Kings . One thing that amazed us was about mid- ship was a small section under the deck which you could look down in was a huge Sea King folded up like a transformer in this little cavity . Just standing there looking at the New Jersey I wondered to myself ...... how the hell does this thing float !!!
That ship was the USS Missouri
They signed the surrender in the Missouri
@@Blaines-smallengine-repair As the plaque said on this spot on the Missouri , it was representing the table .
There were also the experimental Martlet sabot rocket rounds from project HARP. Although never intended for use on the Iowa class, they could have potentially developed into extended range rounds; if battleships and big guns had not given way to carrier groups.
I'm sure they could have also adapted the modern self guided artillery rounds our 155's use now as well. There simply no need in all reality.
Ah yes the HARP gun. I think it was made out of Iowa class 16" rifle barrels. Two of them stuck together.
@@1pcfred Thanks, now I'm imagining these big ass battleship guns duct taped together side by side like a shotgun.
@@daddysempaichan Not side by side, end to end. They were trying to get maximum velocity, with the ultimate goal of putting the projectile into orbit.
@@DABrock-author Ah, so they were docking gun barrels. I see...
I got a letter from my brother when he was in Vietnam. He said "Watching a battleship shoot a hill. The hill gets shorter every time they shoot."
I served on the USS New Jersey BB-62 off Beirut. We took out a mountain. A tunnel was being used as an ammunition depot. Fired for a while, hours. When the guns fired you would pick up your cup or the contents would splash out. I still have a few photos where the shells are visible as they exit the fireball. As loud as the guns are, the concussion on the body was more impressive. Nothing else like it. Bridge windows were rolled down. And we would all drop down when a full charge was fired. 600 lbs of powder per gun. 9 guns. 5,400 lbs in one broadside.
I was privileged to witness a 9 gun salvo courtesy of the New Jersey on our way back from the Mediterranean in 86 I think. Quite simply amazing.
Standing in shell craters from USS Texas at Pointe Du Hoc was pretty enlightening as far as the destructive power of large caliber naval shells.
Don't recall seeing the Desert Storm damage, just hearing of concrete bunkers being turned to gravel and the Air Force wanting those guns somewhere else, since the mult-million dollar laser guided penetrators were supposed to show why the Air Force budget increase was so critical. Navy wanted more planes and carriers, so they were agreeable.
Think is was a tossup for the Army, having to call in for support, but they always preferred having large guns within range to call up over waiting for a pilot to finish his coffee and go warm up his plane.
Anyone wanting to 'hear' a good simulation of a 16" shell passing overhead? Go down to your local fast-freight rail track, turn your back and close your eyes. In Vietnam, we heard what seemed like a aerial freight train pass overhead from many miles away and then await for the mini-earthquake when they landed.
One early morning driving back to New York from Boston i actually pulled over and had the luxury of having The Battleship USS Massachusetts all to myself. It was just my cousin and myself and i explored every crevice of the ship, it was amazing being on The Bridge looking over those massive forward gun turrets. I was coming back from a car show at The Lars Anderson car museum and happened to see this massive ship off to the side of the highway and just had to check it out and I'm glad I did. Turned out to be "Battleship Cove". The ship actually had a hole in the turret armor from a shell during the battle of Leyte Gulf, it had to be like 6 inches thick😮
Most every Boy Scout troop in CT did a trip to Battleship Cove, it was always a favorite destination.
A retired USMC Colonel told me of how he went on leave to a recreation area in Vietnam. After that, he returned to his company and resumed patroling as a platoon leader.
First time out, it got ugly. Traps, ambushes, and the sense they were about to be hit by a considerable force. So he radioed in a "panic grid". This was a call for artillery fire to saturate an entire 1000 meter by 1000 meter map grid. Problem was, nobody had told him that while he was gone the battery that did that was relocating to a new base. And that fire support was temporarily from an Iowa.
In came the 16 inch! Trees were uprooted and flung into the air. Dirt and mud and unbelievable concussions. His men were shocked and somewhat out of it. His battalion commander came out by helicopter just to see the chaos. The lieutenant asked him, "You got anymore of that?"
In 1969 I was in Vietnam, in the Navy, ashore on the South China Sea, while a battleship fired its guns from beyond the horizon at sea. The shells went over our heads and landed out of sight inland of my position on the beach. Two sets of thunder, with whooshing sounds overhead. Pretty impressive but it was not a good feeling having the shells flying overhead. I never saw the ship.
Seems surreal now but we were at Phu Bia south of Hue during Tet and heard those little freight train sounding rounds going right over our heads.
They told us they were from the New Jersey 💥
I would love to see an Iowa class battleship fire in person. It would be amazing
I bet it was a good feeling when they hit their target!
My grandfather was a 30mm gunner on the USS San Francisco CA-38. He told me he had to clean up his friends with a dustpan and broom. He shot the Kamikazes down.
Triple A just fascinates me. I’ve watched many videos on the subject. Must have been quite an experience firing the 30 MM
@@yankees29
Yes, he recalls the barrel changing duty to be more strenuous. He was so deaf for the rest of his life. He had severe hearing problems due to the concussions. I'm just glad he made it off that boat in 1 piece.
@@yankees29
I wish I could have shot that 30mm once.
@@Chebva damn I can only imagine. Actually I’m deaf in one ear so I guess I can relate a bit. Lol
I was assigned on USS Wisconsin BB64 and let me tell the percussion force that hit your chest and the heat when the 16” went off was the BEST FEELING IN THE WORLD during Desert Shield/Desert Storm. I miss her so much!! OS2 Chris Harrell (Cuz)
I got a photo of the sun rising over the deck of the New Jersey on Yankee Station in the Gulf of Tonkin back in 1971, wow what a warship. I was on an ammunition ship and we would pull up alongside the ship we were replenishing, match speeds, then a bosun on our main deck with a shotgun would fire a dowel with an elaborate string and shellac head on it called a monkey's paw across the bow of the other ship. Attached to the monkey paw was a small rope which would be connected to a winch (it was already connected to our winch). Attached to that rope was a much larger rope which in turn was attached to a large steel cable. Once the cable was in place between the winches, pallets of munitions would begin to flow. Afterward, other things like mail, and even personnel might be transferred back and forth.
All that took a number of very skilled people doing their jobs almost perfectly, every time. I'm proud to have served even though I thought Vietnam was a huge blunder, then and now.
Those 16" projectiles are even bigger than I remembered. I remember someone telling me that they weighed the same as a Corvair (a GMC compact car being made at the time) and could hit targets with great accuracy, twenty-three miles away.
Today, we just use a Tomahawk and put it through a specific window.
The power to send a projectile that heavy 23 miles is just insane!
That is only the "listed" range..
Right, but given the 31.5" projectiles the German "Schwerer Gustav" railway gun was able to send 47km (or some 30 miles) away makes these battleship cannons look like water pistols....
It do go bang.
@@jsn7123
Germany was good a making great big technical things on paper that would outperform US systems on paper.
But in reality of warfare where it is all about manufacturing and logistics it made no sense to produce such big systems that could not easily be replaced or even deployed.
Imagine what yamato had
Regarding the sound of flying cannon shells, I have been on an artillery range when 155mm howitzers were firing shells over us at targets downrange. As they went overhead, they made a sort of whistling or whooshing sound, kind of like a jet plane going by. When the sun glinted off them just right you could even see them. 155mm is about 6.1", a lot smaller than a 16" shell, so I can only imagine that sound scaled up.
When the 8" rounds go over you, they are a bit deeper sound than 105, 155, 175mm etc, verging on that freight train rumble..
In Lebanon we had a salvo of 155s going assist right overhead, like being alongside a freight train on a downhill. Scared the s out of our young green officer. And this is only about 1/3 the size of the 16"!
This video was so informative! Impressive. My father served on the USS Trathan (destroyer) as a fire control technician during the Korean War. Shot the guns. At North Korea they were lobbying shells at caves above the beaches. The USS Missouri was offshore about 20 miles shelling the same tunnels dads ship was hitting. Dad told us they could hear the 16in shells over his destroyer making a “whooshing” sound as they went overhead. The sides of the mountain would come down when the shells from the Missouri hit. Massive destruction. I cannot imagine what happened to the North Korean soldiers who were in the caves.
They’re still there one assumes.
You obviously do not know anything about the military or artillery.
The Navy considered mounting 18" guns but decided against it as they could achieve the same result with volume of fire as the 16" fired faster and had 3 guns per turret instead of 2.
18” were never considered for the Iowa’s. It would have required massive increase in displacement, as well as increases in the beam if triple turrets were used, all of which would have required great reduction in tonnage available for machinery , and would have greatly reduced speed. They would also not have been able to use the Panama Canal.
Imagine the army using fixed 18 inch artillery being used in battle at an industrial scale. It would probably do more damage than nuclear weapons.
@@scrappydude1 Agreed! The problems and logistics of gaining those extra two inches of diameter in firepower on a ship would quadrupled at the very least. The IJN built specific use ships for their 18" guns. I doubt an Iowa class could even be retrofitted to accept a twin turrrent of 18" rifled barreled guns.
While in the US Air Force and stationed in Vietnam, I had an occasion to visit a guarded ammo dump with a friend. There I took pictures of mostly 2,000 and others of similar pound bombs used by B-52s, But then we came upon a much larger bomb, It was not laying down on its side like most of the others. If was sideways cradled in thick wood. It was a 15,000 pound bomb and as I understand it was used to blow away trees in the forest to make an emergency landing area for helicopters, as was mentioned in this article. The bomb I saw was not as long as the one shown for the NJ battleship, it had a much wider section though. Also, the bomb I stood next to with my arm resting over the top for a picture had large hooks on top to be picked up and then dropped rather than be shot out of a naval vessel.
If I remember correctly, when testing the turret faceplate from the Shinano, it was at a distance of 5km but they used a reduced powder load. So the shell hit the faceplate at the same velocity that it would have at 20km if they had used a full charge.
Correct the powder load was adjusted for the range which was so short to ensure a hit. It was a common testing procedure on gun's of this size and larger land artillery pieces.
Yup. I've read reports stating the same thing about this test shot. 👍
It still wasn't a realistic test, especially since it was a 0° impact angle. In reality, it was fairly unremarkable that a 16" gun would penetrate that amount of armor at that angle. What made ship armor more effective in reality was the different angles, layers of armor and other variables that wouldn't be present in a test.
@@Cragified l
Were these tests done at Dahlgren?
I think you are dismissing the forensics analysis of Bismarck's wreck too easily. The images attached to said analysis do have a surprisingly good resolution. Apparently they got the rover really close to the wreck, which did pay off. I'm actually not surprised that the analysis didn't find a lot of penetrations on Bismarck's armor - simply because of the sheer percentage of tonnage that was devoted to armor plate. Percentage-wise Bismarck and Tirpitz had more of their tonnage devoted to armor than even Yamato (40+% compared to a little over 33%). And given Bismarck used the outdated turtleback armor scheme, it meant that by closing the distance the Royal Navy made it unnecessarily hard for itself to deal proper damage to Bismarck's citadel - because that is precisely what the turtleback is supposed to counter.
Yes, that is true. I was wondering if Germany ever considered the all or nothing. And why they went with the turtle back instead.
Because of lack of experience in building such ships.
Bismarck and Tirpitz were built to be tanks inside 10,000 yards. Their turtlebacks were called outdated by some at the time but you have to remember there were only ever two classes of battleships in the world that could outrun a Bismarck.
@@jeffreynagy7112 If my memory is correct the reason why the Kriegsmarine went with a turtleback style armor scheme was specifically because of the weather conditions of the intended area of operations. The North Sea and Northern Atlantic are notorious for bad sea states particularily in the form of bad visibility. The thought being that the increased chance of bad weather meant there would be a very high chance of engagments being at shorter than usual ranges. I do not think though that I am alone in my opinion that the disadvantages of a turtleback layout far outweigh the benefits and that by WW2 the doctrine that surrounded it's implimentation (That being shorter ranges because of incliment weather and lighting conditions) was already DOA because of the implementation of accurate search and fire control radars in the Royal Navy.
The 'outdated' turtleback obviously worked pretty well. Lots of battleships fell apart from much less abuse.
My wife's grandfather sailed and saw action in ww2 on the new jersey. He always said "I'm a battleship sailor and the last of my kind. " GODSPEED
I was blessed to have worked on all the battleships at Ingall’s Shipbuilding in Pascagoula, Ms. they went through rebuilds prior to being taken out of service.
My Grandpa told me a story of when he was in Vietnam this thanksgiving. He was out on a patrol or some sort during a bombardment, he said "the shells from the battleships sounded like freight trains flying over my head"
I went on the USS Missouri when it was in the mothball fleet in Bremerton, Washington in 1982. Then saw and felt the USS New Jersey shoot in the late 80”s. We were about 2 miles away and we could still feel the confusion when they fired. This was just before the tragic accident.
Interesting, the more things change the more they stay the same. On the old wooden sailing war ships one of the greatest dangers to the crew was from wood shrapnel. Same principle, but now it’s metal shards instead of wood. Unfortunately, the end result is the same for any unlucky crew member.
On the old wooden ships the danger was large splinters of wood. That's where the saying " shiver me timbers" came from. Very deadly indeed.
I was at Cua Viet in 69 and got to watch the New Jersey firing at targets inland. She looked absolutely enormous sitting there off the coast. I remember when she'd fire there would be a double report from the 16" guns, the sound barrier I suppose. She was also firing salvos from her twin 5" gun mounts. Someone told me she was firing the 16" guns to collapse tunnels, don't know if that was true.
I have experienced them being test fired. I say experienced because there is no way that a video can properly convey it. The world shakes for miles around. Even well behind the gun the concussion wave is awe inspiring. I cannot image being on the wrong end of that mighty blast.
I can't imagine being in the turret.
The Washington DC Naval Yard is awesome! I’ve seen the Japanese armor with the shell holes in the yard. The museum is off the hook!
The way I used to explain the difference between the two projectiles was that the AP was for shooting at other shops, (especially bettleships), and the HE was for firing at land targets.
The main reason why naval gun fire support was not effective against the Japanese held island defenses was because the HE shells could not reach a high enough angle to punch through and explode. Dud they do some damage? Yes! I've seen pics from Iwo where battleship shells had completely blew a concrete bunker with a heavy gun, off its foundation.
But unfortunately, they couldn't do enough.
The unsuccessful naval bombardment of Eniwetok was a lesson-leaned by the US Navy, when they bombarded Iwo Jima they also used aircraft bombing-both naval and USAAF. B-24's carpet bombed some of the deep fortifications near the beaches.
The front stock on my M-16 really was made by Mattel. Their logo was molded right into the inside of it. Receiver, made by General Motors Corporation.
Old friend of the family served a tour of duty on BB-62 when Reagan recommissioned it, saw action off Lebanon.
He had the time of his life!
Explosion, the museum at Priddy's Hard has a fascinating display of shells ranging from 4.5" to 18." The 18" from monitors (formerly HMS Furious) scored hits at up to 30 miles in 1918. That would have been something to see.
I was on a destroyer that normally operated with the carrier Hornet off the coast of VietNam in 1969. We got pulled off and sent on a naval gunfire support mission so I thought, OK that's going to be a lot of noise like it usually is...but this time we were running a little ahead of the New Jersey. When we doubled back, the New Jersey was firing right over us - 9 barrel volleys, sometimes less. It sounded like thunder, then there was a much stronger sonic shock after that, followed by what sounded like several jumbo jets coming over at about 50 ft. altitude. After a few seconds, when the shells hit, there was a distorted mushroom cloud that contained rocks, water, dust, trees...whatever was at the target. We were firing our six 5" 38s and getting good reports from our spotters, but everyone was watching the New Jersey.
Those Battleships are amazing. I've been obsessed with the Iowas and Yamato ever since I was a little kid. I daydream that at least one of the Iowas was still active and re-re-fitted with contemporary systems AND still those 16" cannons lol. I can dream.
I admit i have had in my imagination the idea of some rapid tech advancements in gunnery allow railguns and the Iowas are gutted and totally modernized and given nuclear engineering plant. The turrets now mounting 9 railguns.
@@filanfyretracker Sadly railguns are useless.
I believe even up until very recently, the the Navy's agreement about the New Jersey being a museum was that it could be reactivated at anytime, therefore certain things, like the propeller reduction gears, etc, are kept lubed and locked. They may have permanently decommissioned it in the last few years I'm not sure, I'll have to re-watch some of the videos.
Before nuclear weapons, battleships were the superweapon. But these big guns were made obsolete by guided missiles
On a weapons-logistics shipcheck out of LBNSY in 1986, the Missouri fired at an island off the So. California Coast. They had dawn a 1,000 yard circle, with a golf flagstick in the center. The footage revealed that the stick was obliterated, and only 1 crater was outside the strike zone. The range was 20 miles....Also, a concrete bunker was installed there, and it too, was obliterated.
In 1968, I was on top of a bunker at the Marble Mountain transmitter site next to 3rd Amtrac watching the New Jersey fire her 16" guns and it was very impressive. The transmitter site was next to the beach and the New Jersey didn't seem like it was all that far off shore when she was firing.
Thank you so much for your service
Thank you Isaac! 🙂
@@Cleatus46 No problem.
Time delay is 0.033 second and is in the base of the Armor-Piercing (AP) Mark 8 projectile (2700 pounds total weight and 4.5 calibers (projectile diameters of 16") = 6'). It has a thick AP cap (hardened steel crash helmet, in effect) covering its nose to protect the nose when it hits thick hard-faced steel armor, like the side armor on a battleship, and that forms the base of the pointed nose that has the sheet-metal pointed windscreen above it to give the projectile a streamlined shape to reduce air resistance (big rifle bullet shape!). The tiny explosive charge, also in the base, is there to spread around the pieces of the projectile by blowing up after the projectile gets deep into an enemy target, originally another battleship, because ships are so big that just punching tiny 16" holes only has a tiny chance of hitting something important. AP rounds are now much less useful, of course, since after WWII very few armored warships remained in service very long.
1900-pound large-explosive-charge High Capacity (HC) projectiles in two types: Mark 13 with solid hardened steel nose tip to use a short-delay (0.01 second) base fuze; an instantaneous impact nose fuze; or a clockwork nose time fuze preset just prior to loading or the later Mark 14 with a proximity ("VT") nose fuze -- passes near something and explodes due to a tiny radar in the nose, though a direct hit straight in front of the shell will cancel the radar and act like an impact fuze. These projectiles are much more useful against a large number of different targets by choosing which one to fire at them. They also have a much bigger explosion when they are set off by their fuze, whichever one it is selected to use. They are shorter at only 5' 4" high and usually fired at a lower velocity than the AP shells.
I remember as a kid hearing tales of how accurate Iowa Class Battleship 16 inch guns were. How good were they really? How close can you reliability be when shooting at something 15 to 20 miles away?
czcams.com/video/DEGrj1Vg19U/video.html
He talks to a commander of the iowa and talks about the accuracy
Depends on the wind, and whether or not the target was moving.
I recall reading an article in Guns and Ammo around 1989 that put their accuracy at sub minute-of-angle. If I remember correctly, they could consistently hit an area smaller than a football field at 20 miles. Teenaged me was pretty impressed reading that article.
Thanks!
@@adirondacker007 I remember reading that too! Pretty good accuracy for an analog fire control from the late 30’s early 40’s!
An ‘ordinary’, but knowledgable, man’s commentary on an extraordinary phenomenon - worked really well.
Hey Ryan and crew, we actually know what a 16" Mark 8 would do to a Battleship. Look up the battle damage from Operation Torch suffered by Jean Bart at the hands of South Dakota's gunnery. There is a picture of the bow just forward of the #1 turret which shows the front hull nearly separated from a Mark 8 landing there during the battle. Pretty epic hole.
EDIT: It was Massachusetts, still a South Dakota Class
was not south dakota it was the USS Massachusetts
Also not a 50 cal 16 in
@@kenstahler6010 actually the 50 caliber isn’t in reference to the bore like a .50 cal. It’s the barrel length. Large guns tend to have the length measurement listed in number of times longer than the bore.
So these guns are 16x50 inches long.
WWII German antitank guns used the same system in their names, the 88mm l/71 (“long 88”) being 71 “calibers” long.
@@GudrezBilly know that, but I believe the 50 had a higher velocity so possibly more damage
@@kenstahler6010 You are correct, the SoDaks had 45 Cal rifles with a slightly lower muzzle velocity. It is said they were better deck penetrators than the 50's.
Sailed on the Iowa. Their impact is scary impressive.
There are some interior areas you can observe, because you do NOT want to be on deck when they are firing.
Got caught in blast area of 5 inch. Dont recommend it.
Am I the only one flinching every time this dude slaps that fuze?
Having seen the craters at Point du Hoc in Normandy….I can’t even imagine being under a combination of naval bombardment and aerial bombardment!
I did see those, huge
The D-Day bombardment was largely a failure. Which is why casualties were so high. The men were told the beaches would be full of craters they could find cover in. When they hit the beaches there wasn't a crater to be found. Point du Hoc was empty too. The guns had been moved inland. Aerial bombardment was also hampered by the crews having to wait before dropping their payloads. The navy was worried about bombs falling short. None of those bombs landed anywhere near the beach as a result. I think they were told to wait a minute after they crossed to coast? It was a joke!
@@1pcfred High casualties? It was like a walk in the park. They landed over 150000 troops that day and lost ~4400. We germans lost somewhere between 4000 and 9000.
@@1pcfred Landing in Normandy on D-Day as an allied soldier was like one of the safest places in the war if you look at percentage lost. For comparison: for WW2 as a whole, US rifleman had a 18% chance of getting killed, while US tank crews had a chance of 8%, vs soldiers on the beaches of normandy: 3%.
@@hernerweisenberg7052 well some times at some beaches were more deadly than others.
I'd love to see a 16in gun fire in person. What an amazing piece of history!
When a museum curator calls a shell casing a "bullet shaped thing", I tend to begin questioning credentials.....
America. Terms. But feel free to ask him anything about the battle ship you would like to know.
Spell check. Oh my. Layman's terms. Not america. ?
He has to communicate with people who know nothing.
Would you do better in that interface?
If you have a better description, then why don't you make a contribution instead of merely trying to be a smart ass?
I don't think this idiot knows what the he'll he is talking about😂
This WILL get buried, but the US realized in the early 1920s, with the introduction of the Colorado Class and 16" AP Mk II, that low C/M (charge to mass ratio) in shells allowed for an incredible increase in penetration. If you run the numbers, even British Greenboy shells or World War Two 15"/42 shells with a .02 or .025 C/M lag notably behind the penetrative capability of .015 C/M ratio shells fired out of the 14"/50 standards. I believe they are behind even the 14"/45 penetration with .015 C/M, but I cannot check the numbers right now and do not want to be wrong.
The Japanese were also very aware of the advantages of the 1.5% C/M, and though their guns were not as powerful in raw numbers, this extra penetration allowed them to make the best use of their 16" ships.
Okay, this answers one of the questions I have had through this whole video, as I was wondering why the size of the charge was so small (~150lb), relatively speaking, given the overall weight of the projectile itself (~2,700lb).
I assume this only applies to the AP rounds. Any information on the high explosive shells? I am still not finding good numbers on the exact explosive payload they carry, especially in comparison to something like a 1000lb GBU.
@@Laotzu.Goldbug that 150 pound charge refers to the HE shell. The AP is as low as 40.9 pounds.
However, it's not directly comparable with a Mk83 LDGP or equivalent guided bomb. The majority of the damage from that comes from the high explosive itself, while the battleship shells have imparted energy from the impact, the bursting charge, and most critically, the shrapnel the HE shell throws. It's not as efficient as a conventional bomb, but it's very effective in its own way.
Thicker shell walls and a smaller charge mean more large pieces of shrapnel, which can do more damage to individual objects around the area of impact.
navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7.php
Here's a good website that will tell you about the ammunition for the 16" gun. The rabbit hole goes very deep on this topic, so I tried to condense things down as much as I could.
Drache has rated all the common shells.