Monarch Power Compound Disassembly | Gears Everywhere!
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Finally back to work on getting the DRO installed, and the first step in that is to remove the compound and cross slide so we can machine one side of the cross slide. I've been anxious about finding trouble by doing this, but looking forward to the challenge.
Contact me:
AlwaysSunnyintheShop@gmail.com
14:54 looks like you have enough room to mount your DRO to the left of that nut and have it nice and protected inside the carriage. That is how Robin did his. Also that way you could avoid having to cut on that beautiful cross slide.
Whoa I never would have thought about that. I’ll have to take some measurements to see if it’s possible. Thanks Brian!!
@@AlwaysSunnyintheShop Your scale is pretty big so maybe not enough room but it is possible you can use a Newall micosyn with your DRO head, they are very small (like the size of a pencil). I have a microsyn on the cross slide on my CBB Monarch.
i know I'm quite randomly asking but does anyone know a good site to watch new series online?
@Preston Immanuel Flixportal =)
You're a brave man! Lots of parts to keep track of. Very methodical working. Really enjoyed the take down. Paul
I’m going to raise this up the flag pole to see if anyone salutes.
I think the grease fittings are for way oil, just like a Bridgeport.
I agree
Yep. I have the same fittings on my Burke Millrite. Manual calls for way oil.
I have a round ram bridgeport, and the manual for that says they did use grease, but you can just clean it out and use oil. The advantage of grease is it wont run out, and because its a bit thicker it does dampen more. However over time the oil can separate and the grease will gum up.
I was thinking the same thing. Just because there is grease there doesn’t mean there should be grease there.
Jeff Anderson I would use way oil.
Well to add to what a few others said use oil on the ways not grease. The use of grease can be a reason the ways are scored.
Also the surfaces you showed looked like they were scraped and had no flaking. I recommend you flake the top (the part that sits on top of the ways) Eg the top of the slide surfaces for oil retention. But even if you don’t want to go through that trouble just hit the ways with a fine stone briefly so as to clean up any dings you just put in there during disassembly and give it lots of vactra 2 and call it a day. You lathe looks very dry from lack of lubrication.
You should be oiling the oil points on a lathe every time you go to use it in a home shop environment just a little every time, it should have way oil on all the sliding surfaces.
those zerk fittings on the compound might be for oil. i have seen both mills and lathes configured like this. Double Boost has these on his lathe and an oilier to oil them.
I came to say the same thing.
Enjoyed Aaron, I agree about oil not grease.
ATB, Robin
Thanks for your input, Robin!
Its always great to open an old machine, always a flip of a coin as to what you find, You had a win.
WooHoo Aaron, you've hit 10K Subs. Well done👍😎👍
Can't wait to see it finished. Awesome job Aaron. Our kind of man you be. Oh yeah! Thank you so much for what you share with us.
I enjoy these Monarch lathe break down videos. Being a mere mortal, I rarely get to see or be in the same shop with a blessed Monarch.
Yours my friend, is a beauty.
I agree with several others that you may want to flake the upper surfaces for oil retention, someone went to a lot of work and expense to restore that lathe. Clean the cross slide and compound of all grease and generously oil with Vactra II WY oil, reassemble with care and your problem will probably go away.
Monarchs are such high quality machines.
I'm with the other guys here suggesting that those Zerks are for way oil and not for grease - unless the Monarch lubrication instructions call for grease. My mill has Zerks on the vertical ways and elevating screw that call for oil, I use a small Lincoln grease gun I adapted to oil on those.
That machine definitely has some gravity to it! And now more of it is pretty on the inside too, nice job. I agree with the way oil also.
I'm amazed at the engineering it took to get that all to work. I wonder how much that lathe cost when it was new?
It’s a beauty for sure. In today’s dollars it was about $130,000. Monarch was kind enough to send me the original invoice.
“I don’t want to take this apart because I’m afraid of what I might find.” That’s exactly how I feel about going to the doctor. Fears often well founded, too! You have a good bit of nerve taking that thing apart. Hope it goes back together well.
Yeah that's the truth. But I'd rather go to the doctor and find a fixable problem rather than let it go forever to turn into something even worse! I'm hoping it will be smooth sailing to get it back together.
I’ll go in there and the Doc will tell my cross slide needs to be scraped ...
Aaron,
I have no experience with Monarch lathes, so I enjoy it when you document your mechanical disassembly. You do so much with extreme care they I expect your techniques to be always flawless. You made me cringe when you used the Starrett pin punch as a pry bar. A sheep's foot or rolling pry bar would have been my preferable tool. This would give you control and far less opportunity to cause unintentional damage. Your punch prying required small effort so all ended well. The Starrett punch pins are hardened making them a poor prying bar choice. I have three sets of that size and one of the sets is incomplete. I used one for line up prying and it snapped of surprisingly easily. I like Starrett punches due to the full length cylindrical punch pin. This allows deeper access than mechanic's common brands like MAC, PROTO and Snap-On. Starrett punch bodies are softer than the punch pin absorbing hammer blow force without chipping and the knurling and logo detailing just makes them feel good to use. Mechanic's brands achieve the hardness variation in the punch body with heat treating variation in the same piece of steel. I don't think that this method is as good as the Starrett approach. IE, I own more broken mechanic's brands pin punches than broken Starrett pin punches.
I have a lot of experience with Clausing-Colechester engine lathes, and some Le Blond and Mazak experience. Nothing has had a powered compound. You claimed little compound leadscrew/nut backlash. The nut appeared to be brass, but I couldn't tell if it is a split nut or not. Clausing-Colechester uses a cross slide leadscrew split nut. This allows you to adjust for minimum backlash. Leadscrews generally wear unevenly, with less wear on the extreme travel areas. Eliminating backlash in the worn areas can make it too tight in the unworn areas. Compound use is normally minimal, so the need for backlash compensating nuts may be superfluous.
Clausing-Colechester made it easier to remove the compound T bolts by relieving the slot in the top of the cross slide groove. The T olts can come out the top without having to remove the cross slide to take them out the bottom. This is important, because production lathe operators sometimes have herculean arms and can destroy T bolts surprisingly quickly.
I have installed DRO's many times. I will be interested to see if you being a relative novice understand procedures well enough to ensure highest accuracy. What brand and model have you chosen? Our shop was exceedingly loyal to Accurite until we couldn't get parts for AR5 and mini scales. Newall technology was being accepted at that time and this became our standard. I even applied Newall to a CNC application after repeated Sony Magnescale failures. I never encountered a Newall hardware failure.
I would still like to meet you someday. We think a lot alike.
Oh, I forgot... Try Snap-On dead blow brass or bronze faced hammers for driving your chisels and punches. You will increase control and reduce damage (mushrooming and chipping) to your chisels and punches.
Thanks for your input, Paul. You will be glad to hear i was prying with an import brass punch, not a hardened steel Starrett. I hope to never be quite that careless 😃. I chose an AcuRite 203- it’s a new output style with a color screen and adjustable fonts for easier reading. I went back and forth many times trying to decide between it and the Newell and the more modern display sold me. Hopefully I can get it installed correctly, and accurately on the first try. Thanks for watching!
One of the first things I learned, the the lathe is one of the few things not living that is capable of recreating itself if you have a confident knowledgeable and well-trained operator.
Great exploratory of a Monarch cross slide and power compound. Ground surface to scrapped surface is fine, wonder if the clunking is simply the bevel gears, maybe one of them is misaligned.
Thanks for sharing.
Neat assembly
I’m pretty shure the zerks are for way oil ! This is a common Problem, People think these are for Grease but it is oil on most Machine Tools.
At least on the Ways and Schrews.
I sense you might have been watching Keith F lately?
He just finished a 5 parts series overhauling his lathe.
Looking forward to part two with thanks.
Kinda funny how that happens- he's working on his cross slide and compound at the same time I am. Fortunately no replacement parts needed on mine!
They are NOT grease fittings, they are lubrication fittings.
This is a sincere question, how do you tell the difference? They look like grease fittings. Is there a special oil can for these fittings? Wondering for a long time now.
The only way to tell the difference is to read the manual.
For many many years I had a pump oil can that had a fitting on the end of the oil discharge tube that fit on those oiler fittings.
Check your documents. Some machines use grease fittings for oils. My large shapers do.
Unfortunately Monarch couldn't provide me with any documentation on the power compound, but I've now got it all cleaned out and have a new oil gun. Vactra No. 2 from now on!
Gday Aaron, the flaking really does look beautiful, whoever did this really did a nice job, I was surprised how much the components weighed, it’s a bloody heavy machine, what’s the lathe weigh all up? Great video, thanks Aaron, take care mate, cheers Matty
The lathe is around 8500 pounds (3855 kg), give or take. Awfully chunky for a home garage, that's for sure.
I’ve been waiting for this video. Thanks man. Really cool. Definitely a unique machine. I wonder if that grease system is original or was added during restoration.
Considering the height the powered compound adds and the steps you had to take to fit some of your tool holders... I’ve always wondered if it would be worth it to find a junked machine that doesn’t have the powered option and modify its compound to fit your machine. Obviously you could always put the original back on if needed. Even if possible, it’s probably not worth it.
Edit: My guess was 52lbs
I've thought about that, too. Not too many scrap machines around here but maybe someday I'll find something suitable to use in a conversion. The lubrication fittings are shown on the original Monarch drawings, so they are original.
@@AlwaysSunnyintheShop If anything, at least I know its a reasonable thought. Nice to know they're original, using them to deliver oil seems to make sense.
11:11 scraped surface.
Hi Aaron,
When i was an apprentice, my instructors said that anyone can take something apart, but they can't always put it back together... i don't think this will be the case with you.
Take care
Paul,,
just remember putting it back together is usually the reverse :P
Unless you didn't take it down in the proper order in the first place !
👍😎👍
🔧😊👍
Inspired by Mr. Fenner, were we?
OIL please.
The old beast is a beauty. How long are you going to have to think about it when it's time actually to begin a CUT on the side of the slide?
Won't be too long- need to get it back together before I can use the machine after all. The bigger challenge will definitely be setting up and ensuring my cut will be in line with the ways. Will be a weird feeling though, for sure.
Hiya Aaron
I guessed 20kg which is 44.09 pounds.
So I hit it almost perfectly.
OIL ONLY. Dont want chips to adhere.
.
I had guessed 40...... If you need gears, contact "this old Tony", he is always making gears for something.... You guys may be able to work out something....
Keith Rucker has been making a few gears lately as well.
So where is the " every-so-often chunky movement " coming from?
Good question- I think it comes down to the caked up oil and grease causing a bit of binding. I should probably disassemble the apron for the same reason.
thrust bearings need grease not oil
probably about 50lbs. also always be really careful grabbing gibs, they self sharpen over time.
I am curious, did you search the internet for a manual or contact the manufacturer to see if you can get a manual for it.
Yes I spoke to Monarch about it but they were unable to locate a manual for the compound. It wasn't a commonly ordered option so there aren't too many out there.
So many machine ways have been destroyed by people greasing them instead of properly using way oil.
This looks like a very rugged design.They sure don’t build them like that anymore
25 lb
even you kept saying oil, not grease. Listen to yourself.
I’m full of bad ideas though 😂
60 pounds.