Small correction, mirrodin block only has mirrodin, darksteel and 5th dawn. Modern legality begins with this block (EDIT: Actually 8th edition was the first modern legal set, as well as the first set with the modern card frame, not Mirrodin, thanks to lancelot717 for the correction). Mirrodin besieged was part of the 2nd mirrodin block (aka new phyrexia) which came later. Cheers
Fwiw Shuko has seen play in the legacy deck cephalid breakfast for similar abuse, there is a creature that lets you mill your deck by targeting it. It was way less resilient and robust than Nadu though. I don't keep up to date with magic much anymore so I really enjoyed your video explaining this new tomfoolery!
breakfast got a huge upgrade with t3feri, time reveller in war of the spark and has seen quite some play and success since then. today they are splashing green for nadu to have a plan-b combo / value engine that fits perfect in the existing shell. (for people intrested in how that deck works: Cephalid Illusionist + Shuko / Nomads en-Kor = mill your entire deck => Narcomoeba comes back from graveyard for free => cast Dread Return from graveyard by sacrificing 3 creatures => get back Thassas Oracle => win)
They won't ban sprinheart nantuko because... well... that card is also from MH3. If they don't want to ban nadu because it's from the current set, banning Nantuko makes no sense. I can absolutely see them trying to wiggle out of it by banning shuko though. It's an old card that has no use outside this very broken combo. While I personally hate nadu as well, they might not actually ban it and instead just have it be still really, incredibly powerful and just ban a couple of support pieces to tone down the power. In the end, modern is full of busted cards like the one ring, bowmasters, sheoldred. Their reason for not banning Nadu would basically be that they don't want to give players the idea that investing in strong magic cards is bad. But on the other hand, even if they ban support pieces to have the deck be more in line with the rest of modern... the effect of Nadu still being in modern might linger, and whatever other version of Nadu might pop up, it might be just as miserable and boring to play against as the shuko-version and modern might still just crumble as a format anyway as people lose interest. Good job wotc! 🎉
I feel like using their previous logic to bans, I feel like one ring and Nadu should get hit. Wasn't it something like if you weren't running Nadu, you were running Rings? I loathe it, it's usually a 4-of and kind of warps games around it, the fact you can loop them and make it so you don't have to take damage from. Your opponent and essentially refresh the burden counters on your ring is insane to me.
Eh not really, it's not even a 100% win. It's really strong sure but there's a lot of 2 card combos that win on the spot. It's a bit like the old twin deck in the issue that it's a combo piece thats also just a strong card
@@cyanidecologne9018 to be fair, yugioh doesnt have 100% win decks. yugioh has deck that play solitare for 10 minutes while the other player sits and waits
@nescaffier1524 there's been decks doing that in magic since before yugioh existed, they used to ban / try and limit combos and have the game be interactive but mtg hired a bunch of old pro players to design cards and metagames and ban / print direct to eternal formats without having to go through standard so it's just ever cycling nonsense now
Its like that except you dont have to do this all in combo deck. As baumi said you can throw nadu in any deck with u/g, slam it t3 and feel good about it. (Similar to that dh naga sharpshooter card). Another problem is that while auctioneer needs you to set up for his turn, you need to draw the right cards, maybe some cheap spells, find enough preps, yada yada. Nadu only needs shuko (which you can easily play beforehand) to go off like in the footage. This can happen on turn 3 (!) And he still leaves you with an 'unkillable' board even if you didnt highroll hard enough on the draws.
because why would i crack overpriced sealed to chase a card that's going to be a guaranteed ban within 6 mo. even timmy can see what's coming with the bird.
Same kinda happend with Hogaak back in MH1 times. Theoretical, Hogaak would/should sell for $80+, but everyone knew that the deck, and most likely hogaak himself would be banned, so nobody realy bought hogaak, at least not for the price. Everyone was basically like: "yeah, the card is broken, but it's gonna be banned in no time, no point in investing in it."
I’ve been arguing for years that the introduction of “putting a card into your hand” to circumvent “drawing a card”, despite being mechanically identical, would eventually break the game. And now here we are. After all, what’s the point of defining mechanics if you’re just going to create ways to circumvent that mechanic? It’s the players who should be finding workarounds, but instead we have the custodian of the game itself jeopardizing it’s integrity. I would *love* to see an audit of how Nadu was designed and approved. It would be fascinating to see, in detail, just how incompetent WOTC’s design and testing teams really are.
The "put into hand" vs "draw a card" design has *always* been applied to cards that are revealed from the top of the deck. The same mechanic is on Ajani, Sleeper Agent, the Explore mechanic, even Vexing Arcanix from Ice Age. This is not a new wording nor is it breaking the card. If anything, Nadu worded the way you want it to would be a break in the consistency of MTG mechanics, and for what? So Orcish Bowmasters is a little better against Nadu in Modern? Your complaint is pointless and not founded in MTG's design principles
They hired a bunch of old pros to literally design meta games after banning splinter twin to contue the forced rotation. Modern is an "eternal" format lol
Jesus, thanks for telling. I'm 22 minutes trying to skip to the actually interesting discussion and he's still going and going and going. I get that the man has to eat but come on...
Only change to make? Make Bird only trigger on opponents actions. suddenly your board generates value and bird must die first before engaging more valuable cards played instead of going infinite in one or two turns. It becomes a effect to play around instead of a self activated mana engine. Still be OP as anything, particularly against Orc archers or similar, where you can use draw to force attacks to trigger the effect, but then you can also anticipate and actively do something about the situation as opposed to sitting there watching your opponent take as many free actions as they like feeding the process.
It's very very rare that magic changes card effects after a card got printed. The only time i can think of on top of my head would be with companions. Also your suggestion would basically kill the card since you can't use nadu as a value engine anymore. Secondly if they would errata the card (change it's effect after printing it) people who bought it would be even more upset then if they would just bann it in modern. Everybody who bought it to play with it in other formats, and maybe even their entire decks around the card, would suddenly not work anymore. Which would be way more financial damage to the community then just banning it in modern.
@@dekina1198 to add to that: companion was "easy" to errata, since the reminder-text was written in a "loose" way, that didn't specify how the companion mechanic worked in detail. wotc also didn't errata single cards but an entire mechanic, which (in case of the companion reminder text) didn't even force them to change the card-text printed
My main concern comes down to the fact that simply banning the card terminates any value of the card and any deck built with it as a component. changing how it interacts with the rest of the cards in your deck makes it a valued part of a deck without being utterly batty and literally rendering the entire meta into infinite play styles. While I could imagine it summoning tapped lands would slow it down, it also would remain absolutely stupidly strong and allow endless chains of growth. Making it reliant on your opponent, generates value in a deck, through forcing a potential reliable counter play, and force your opponent to choose what particular insanity to counter. Your value generator, or your other valuable elements? I totally get your concerns about destroying the card. But it would leave you with a card that does something instead of what everyone expects, outright burning it and everything that synergizes well with it. The change I imagined simply changes it to support other elements in a deck instead of being itself the card to win the entire match whenever available to play. It's hard to see a change to 'nerf' it wouldn't ruin every build built around it because it's utterly ridiculous as is, but banning it does exactly the same thing to it and everything it synergizes well with becomes as worthless as it was before. Reducing the absurdity merely Forces Cunning Players to use it to make their opponent make a decision they really don't want to. Because if banned? It's worthless. If nerfed? It is still strong enough to be thought about as a valuable addition to a deck.
You can't compare Nadu to Hogaak. Hogaak did have the excuse of Bridge from Below, WotC could at least feign ignorance on how powerful Hogaak was. However, Hogaak is in reality just an 8/8 Trample that you can play cheaply. Nadu itself is so inherently powerful, that there is no practical way to ban the support cards of Nadu decks. Because it always offers value no matter how you use it. What? Is WotC going to ban Umbral Mantle, because it can target for zero? Are they going to ban every potential zero cost ability? Let's say that they do, are they going to ban every potential one cost ability? Because even if Nadu's effect triggered and offered a one for one, that is still efficient. Tap land, target for one mana, reveal land, play land, repeat. At what point would WotC have to ban cards to have Nadu not be broken? And the answer to that is that it isn't practical. The only answer is the ban on Nadu itself.
If Simon (the Pro Tour Modern Horizons 3 winner) had been quick thinking and not concerned about Wizards retaliating, he'd flat out have said > I built this deck to prove that Nadu should never have been printed and needs to be banned.
A bit of feedback; know your audience. I guarantee you that 99% of the people who watch this video will be familiar with MTG. There is no need to explain that it is a card game. Or what lightning bolt is. Or many of the other details you embelished. Make a video that targets MTG players OR the uninitiated, this video is far too complex for a first intro to MTG and far too dumbed down for a MTG player
Disagree, i have never played magic but am familiar with it through baumi. This video basically perfectly hit the line between over/under embellishing.
The concept for this video is fundamentally flawed because if Nadu was truly created at this power level to sell packs, Nadu would have been made mythic. It is so very obvious that someone made a mistake with the “twice per turn” wording or something else like that.
Small correction, mirrodin block only has mirrodin, darksteel and 5th dawn. Modern legality begins with this block (EDIT: Actually 8th edition was the first modern legal set, as well as the first set with the modern card frame, not Mirrodin, thanks to lancelot717 for the correction). Mirrodin besieged was part of the 2nd mirrodin block (aka new phyrexia) which came later. Cheers
For whatever reason I thought that 8th edition was before Mirrodin for the longest time, thanks for the trivia
@@lancelot717 Oh yeah youre right, 8th edition is the first modern legal set, whoops. Totally forgot about the core set there
Oko, the Broko 2.0
I remeber you presentation on Oko and it was great! Happy to see another video like this ❤
2.0ko
Fwiw Shuko has seen play in the legacy deck cephalid breakfast for similar abuse, there is a creature that lets you mill your deck by targeting it. It was way less resilient and robust than Nadu though. I don't keep up to date with magic much anymore so I really enjoyed your video explaining this new tomfoolery!
breakfast got a huge upgrade with t3feri, time reveller in war of the spark and has seen quite some play and success since then. today they are splashing green for nadu to have a plan-b combo / value engine that fits perfect in the existing shell. (for people intrested in how that deck works: Cephalid Illusionist + Shuko / Nomads en-Kor = mill your entire deck => Narcomoeba comes back from graveyard for free => cast Dread Return from graveyard by sacrificing 3 creatures => get back Thassas Oracle => win)
nowadays cephalid breakfast plays nadu lol
Gotta dodge that gy hate
They won't ban sprinheart nantuko because... well... that card is also from MH3. If they don't want to ban nadu because it's from the current set, banning Nantuko makes no sense.
I can absolutely see them trying to wiggle out of it by banning shuko though. It's an old card that has no use outside this very broken combo. While I personally hate nadu as well, they might not actually ban it and instead just have it be still really, incredibly powerful and just ban a couple of support pieces to tone down the power. In the end, modern is full of busted cards like the one ring, bowmasters, sheoldred.
Their reason for not banning Nadu would basically be that they don't want to give players the idea that investing in strong magic cards is bad. But on the other hand, even if they ban support pieces to have the deck be more in line with the rest of modern... the effect of Nadu still being in modern might linger, and whatever other version of Nadu might pop up, it might be just as miserable and boring to play against as the shuko-version and modern might still just crumble as a format anyway as people lose interest.
Good job wotc! 🎉
I feel like using their previous logic to bans, I feel like one ring and Nadu should get hit.
Wasn't it something like if you weren't running Nadu, you were running Rings? I loathe it, it's usually a 4-of and kind of warps games around it, the fact you can loop them and make it so you don't have to take damage from. Your opponent and essentially refresh the burden counters on your ring is insane to me.
Yooo the "Baumi explains a Magic card with a PPT presentation" series is back, let's goo
Theres more? Got any links, I wanna check them out
Hey, hey... Shuko has been played in Cephalid Breakfast since Urza's saga was printed!
Nadu basically just turned MTG into Yugioh lol
Eh not really, it's not even a 100% win. It's really strong sure but there's a lot of 2 card combos that win on the spot. It's a bit like the old twin deck in the issue that it's a combo piece thats also just a strong card
@@cyanidecologne9018 to be fair, yugioh doesnt have 100% win decks. yugioh has deck that play solitare for 10 minutes while the other player sits and waits
@nescaffier1524 there's been decks doing that in magic since before yugioh existed, they used to ban / try and limit combos and have the game be interactive but mtg hired a bunch of old pro players to design cards and metagames and ban / print direct to eternal formats without having to go through standard so it's just ever cycling nonsense now
There's a fine line between powerful and broken.
Two times per turn per creature is way over the line.
most fake line of text ive ever seen haha
"Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions" -WOTC
So nadu is basically unkillable gadgetzan auctioneer, and the deck is miracle rogue
nadu is far better than that
Imagine if auctioneer also gave you coins
Excellent comparison
Its like that except you dont have to do this all in combo deck. As baumi said you can throw nadu in any deck with u/g, slam it t3 and feel good about it. (Similar to that dh naga sharpshooter card).
Another problem is that while auctioneer needs you to set up for his turn, you need to draw the right cards, maybe some cheap spells, find enough preps, yada yada. Nadu only needs shuko (which you can easily play beforehand) to go off like in the footage. This can happen on turn 3 (!) And he still leaves you with an 'unkillable' board even if you didnt highroll hard enough on the draws.
because why would i crack overpriced sealed to chase a card that's going to be a guaranteed ban within 6 mo. even timmy can see what's coming with the bird.
Correction: 03:04 the Mirrodin block. Mirrodin Besieged is the middle part of the Scars of Mirrodin block.
Its been a while since i watched your vids. Didn't know you had a channel for other topic stuff.
Thanks for a vid, really liked it. 👍
Wake up babe, they've been shorting Magic the Gathering cards
Thank you for the fascinating analysis!
In my opinion? WotC made their bed and now they have to lie in it.
Ooo
I love this channel alot
great video
We need more magic Content from you 🙏🙏 love to see your excitement about the topic
I m gonna make a alt that's just "Nadu, the silly bird"
HUH WHEN DID YOU MAKE THIS CHANNEL BAUMI
4 months ago, i think it was pretty much right after his palworld video
Same kinda happend with Hogaak back in MH1 times. Theoretical, Hogaak would/should sell for $80+, but everyone knew that the deck, and most likely hogaak himself would be banned, so nobody realy bought hogaak, at least not for the price. Everyone was basically like: "yeah, the card is broken, but it's gonna be banned in no time, no point in investing in it."
oh my god.
great video, id love to hear you talk more magic as a long time youtube frog and magic player
ironially nadu will likely still be an expensive card due to legacy & commander
I've never played Magic, I don't like TCGs that much, but great video and explanation, so interesting!
I’ve been arguing for years that the introduction of “putting a card into your hand” to circumvent “drawing a card”, despite being mechanically identical, would eventually break the game. And now here we are. After all, what’s the point of defining mechanics if you’re just going to create ways to circumvent that mechanic? It’s the players who should be finding workarounds, but instead we have the custodian of the game itself jeopardizing it’s integrity.
I would *love* to see an audit of how Nadu was designed and approved. It would be fascinating to see, in detail, just how incompetent WOTC’s design and testing teams really are.
The "put into hand" vs "draw a card" design has *always* been applied to cards that are revealed from the top of the deck. The same mechanic is on Ajani, Sleeper Agent, the Explore mechanic, even Vexing Arcanix from Ice Age. This is not a new wording nor is it breaking the card. If anything, Nadu worded the way you want it to would be a break in the consistency of MTG mechanics, and for what? So Orcish Bowmasters is a little better against Nadu in Modern? Your complaint is pointless and not founded in MTG's design principles
They hired a bunch of old pros to literally design meta games after banning splinter twin to contue the forced rotation. Modern is an "eternal" format lol
I totally called the answer. "It's too op and will get banned from competitive, so no one cares to buy it"
I don't even play Magic :D
Jesus, thanks for telling. I'm 22 minutes trying to skip to the actually interesting discussion and he's still going and going and going. I get that the man has to eat but come on...
@@jheckie14 He's describing the combo and the cards for people who don't know about it already. Why are you acting like such a brat?
I pulled 7 copies of Nadu but only 2 Ral and 3 Phlage out of my 3 boxes. I think supply is also pushing Phlage price.
Only change to make? Make Bird only trigger on opponents actions. suddenly your board generates value and bird must die first before engaging more valuable cards played instead of going infinite in one or two turns. It becomes a effect to play around instead of a self activated mana engine.
Still be OP as anything, particularly against Orc archers or similar, where you can use draw to force attacks to trigger the effect, but then you can also anticipate and actively do something about the situation as opposed to sitting there watching your opponent take as many free actions as they like feeding the process.
It's very very rare that magic changes card effects after a card got printed. The only time i can think of on top of my head would be with companions.
Also your suggestion would basically kill the card since you can't use nadu as a value engine anymore.
Secondly if they would errata the card (change it's effect after printing it) people who bought it would be even more upset then if they would just bann it in modern. Everybody who bought it to play with it in other formats, and maybe even their entire decks around the card, would suddenly not work anymore. Which would be way more financial damage to the community then just banning it in modern.
@@dekina1198 to add to that: companion was "easy" to errata, since the reminder-text was written in a "loose" way, that didn't specify how the companion mechanic worked in detail. wotc also didn't errata single cards but an entire mechanic, which (in case of the companion reminder text) didn't even force them to change the card-text printed
My main concern comes down to the fact that simply banning the card terminates any value of the card and any deck built with it as a component. changing how it interacts with the rest of the cards in your deck makes it a valued part of a deck without being utterly batty and literally rendering the entire meta into infinite play styles.
While I could imagine it summoning tapped lands would slow it down, it also would remain absolutely stupidly strong and allow endless chains of growth. Making it reliant on your opponent, generates value in a deck, through forcing a potential reliable counter play, and force your opponent to choose what particular insanity to counter. Your value generator, or your other valuable elements?
I totally get your concerns about destroying the card. But it would leave you with a card that does something instead of what everyone expects, outright burning it and everything that synergizes well with it. The change I imagined simply changes it to support other elements in a deck instead of being itself the card to win the entire match whenever available to play.
It's hard to see a change to 'nerf' it wouldn't ruin every build built around it because it's utterly ridiculous as is, but banning it does exactly the same thing to it and everything it synergizes well with becomes as worthless as it was before. Reducing the absurdity merely Forces Cunning Players to use it to make their opponent make a decision they really don't want to. Because if banned? It's worthless. If nerfed? It is still strong enough to be thought about as a valuable addition to a deck.
You can't compare Nadu to Hogaak. Hogaak did have the excuse of Bridge from Below, WotC could at least feign ignorance on how powerful Hogaak was. However, Hogaak is in reality just an 8/8 Trample that you can play cheaply. Nadu itself is so inherently powerful, that there is no practical way to ban the support cards of Nadu decks. Because it always offers value no matter how you use it. What? Is WotC going to ban Umbral Mantle, because it can target for zero? Are they going to ban every potential zero cost ability? Let's say that they do, are they going to ban every potential one cost ability? Because even if Nadu's effect triggered and offered a one for one, that is still efficient. Tap land, target for one mana, reveal land, play land, repeat. At what point would WotC have to ban cards to have Nadu not be broken? And the answer to that is that it isn't practical. The only answer is the ban on Nadu itself.
If Simon (the Pro Tour Modern Horizons 3 winner) had been quick thinking and not concerned about Wizards retaliating, he'd flat out have said
> I built this deck to prove that Nadu should never have been printed and needs to be banned.
A bit of feedback; know your audience. I guarantee you that 99% of the people who watch this video will be familiar with MTG. There is no need to explain that it is a card game. Or what lightning bolt is. Or many of the other details you embelished. Make a video that targets MTG players OR the uninitiated, this video is far too complex for a first intro to MTG and far too dumbed down for a MTG player
Valid
Disagree, i have never played magic but am familiar with it through baumi. This video basically perfectly hit the line between over/under embellishing.
Baumi is primarily a DoTA CZcamsr bro. A huge portion of his audience will have no idea what Magic is
I’ve only heard of magic by name and what little baumi has said about it while playing dota. So I appreciate the explanation of things.
Too rude of a feedback for how dumb it was
The concept for this video is fundamentally flawed because if Nadu was truly created at this power level to sell packs, Nadu would have been made mythic. It is so very obvious that someone made a mistake with the “twice per turn” wording or something else like that.