Every Time Vecna Appeared In Seasons 1-3 | Stranger Things Deep Dive
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2022
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Every Time Vecna Appeared In Seasons 1-3 | Stranger Things Deep Dive
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EMAIL: MichaelJaeYT@gmail. com - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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i want my cookies
WHERES MY COOKIES, YOU LIE, FRIENDS DONT LIE
@@71511ilovesmurfs FRIENDS DONT LIEEEEEEEE
Don’t worry he’s just still baking them you get them soon
WHERE ARE THE COOKIES????? YOU ARE LIKE PAPA!!!
Vecna had a callback from that scene with Eleven and Billy when Billy told her to “stay very still and that it would all be over soon” when he told Max almost the exact same thing during the season 4 finale.
0:45 - he mentions billy. Not with as much detail as it deserved, and which you gave however 👏
(GASPS IN SPANISH) O MA GAWD
Thank god I wasn’t the only one to notice this
He was controlling billy not the mind flayed in s3
Yeah we figured out that reference.
Even if they didn't have the foresight, I have to applaud them for adding connections between seasons as they go. Continuity is very difficult and I think they've done a pretty good job
true, but the retcon with vecna was a bit to heavy because he was literally EVERYONE and Everything. They even degraded the mind flayer because they didnt knew what to do with it.
@@MyBrainGlows I also just don't like that they made a human be the sudden big bad. Really just under sells any horror because its now just basic human pride and greed being the driving force rather than it being some other unknowning reason
If you bought the seasons on disk as they came out you may notice that newer disks and on Netflix itself they removed and added different scenes into the show. Like they wanted Johnathan to be more likable so they removed the whole scene of him taking pictures of Nancy and friends, and the scene where he is confronted about it. Which now makes it weird because the photos were a main driving point of their side of the story and the reason they started to hangout to start with. In the show now he's just suddenly there with no reason, and they go back to Steve's house because Nancy has a feeling rather than the photo.
@@Jalbesbe yeahhh but idk there’s just something about Henry that didn’t make him seem anything like a human at all tbh. I do agree but I think what they decided to do with the mind flayer/Vecna twist was still great
@@Jalbesbe Actually that was confirmed as false. There were no cuts to that plotline at all.
The clock chime gets louder and more noticeable over the seasons.
its a sound effect. Its not a hint.
@@MyBrainGlows details
@Mantis Psychosis the clock chime in s1 its actually just a jumpscare
@@herrscherofyatta_ it’s retroactive foreshadowing. When they first used it I doubt it was meant to hint at anything, I doubt they even had anything past season 1 written, they initially were going to make it an anthology series where each season followed a different story/different setting and characters. However, the fact that they consistently use clock noises to signify some sort of Upside Down or monster premise allows them to tie all these events back to Vecna, even if the clock thing was actually only thought of while they were writing season 4, in a way that seems natural and planned out. Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad are great examples of this, the writers have admitted they wrote both shows as they went, never looking too far to the future but always paying attention to past episodes to figure out where certain events could lead to.
@@rootbeer543 i aint reading that shit
I think the reason Will was chosen to be the host, was that Vecna wanted to established a connection to someone in the real world. That was probably what was happening to him when Joyce and Hop found him. Vecna wanted him alive so that if Will ever made it out, it would be the perfect cover. Both are described as being sensitive, not belonging, so it would be very easy to blend in using Will. Also, any strange behavior could be passed off as PTSD.
He probably knew using a Demogorgon as a host wouldn't get him very far. I mean, El just obliterated it, but with Will, he's surrounded by people who love him, so they couldn't just kill him to get rid of Vecna's presence, like they did the Demogorgon. So his plan in Season 1 was probably to find someone weak and helpless that he could use their defenselessness as a defense tactic for Season 2, but when that failed, he decided to go for the opposite in Season 3, and get someone strong and intimidating.
Yeah, nobody's gonna kill him with Joyce around.
@@christianwalsh9595 you know how moms are.
Did bro write an essay💀
@@quantaviusthemenace2375Hell no, I barely passed English all four years of Highschool, do you think I have the mental capacity to write an essay?
Gate was already opened (7:05 flashback of 011 when she reopened door). Vecna can use his abilities from upside down's creels house itself as he connected it all to hive mind through vines and mindflayer, I do think it was Vecna that Will saw but only his projection like he showed to his other victims in S4 before telekinetically killing them (he have ability of both 002 & 011) which he can do as long as gate is opened and his victims are vulnerable enough as he targeted people with specific signs but good powerful memories/fav song can help overcome those vulnerability and break Vecna's influence.. He needed Will like Billy for his bigger plans ultimately to bring upside down in real world and take over... Hopefully they will explain everything in S5
8:33 "we can clearly hear clock chimes" **
The Duffer brothers have talked about how they first wrote the show to be a limited series. The first season was written to be the only season, but then Netflix wanted them to tease a possible second season if it proved popular. They have also confirmed that the figure in the road is the demogorgon.
I fully believe that Vecna was not planned ahead of time and only came up while writing season 4. The clock sounds in seasons 1-3 were just a motif.
Agreed. They definitely didn’t know about Vecna until at least season 3. I think they’ve had the idea of a “higher power” since season 2 but only came up with the idea in late season 3 or even season 4.
If that's the case Stranger Things is a great example of how to do unplanned sequels, because it all ties pretty well.
@@rafaelalodio5116 Kinda like a D&D game where the characters dont follow your plan and ya just kinda tie stuff together from what ya got.
Yup 100% it’s pretty clear at least season 1-2 the main enemy, the mindflayer, was more primal than it was intelligent and its even arguable that the mindflayer in season 3 is also more primal, intelligent, but the mindflayer is clearly the one in control, not the mindflayer being controlled by vecna who is controlling billy.
I feel you have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to believe vecna was planned from day 1
I disagree. In season 1 Vecna definitely wasn‘t planned, but in season 3 you can clearly hear the clock when Billy gets possessed. He was definitely planned for as early as season 3 at least.
Will has been portrayed as a wizard multiple times in the show “Will the wise”. In season 4 Dustin described Vecna as a Dark Wizard. Interesting correlation
Wicards in dnd learn spells through scrolls right? Maybe will will learn telekinesis somehow…or perhaps he already has some weak form of telekinesis and that’s how the door unlocked itself. Will maybe accidentally unlocked the lock because he was anticipating the scary thing would get in his house some how. Perhaps that’s why vecna wants to keep will just like he wanted el alive.
@@MIKEHUNT7531 🤦
HEAR THAT? IM THE WHITE MAGE, and aint nobody f*ck with the White Mage.
I miss Team Four Star.
It's all based on dnd. Its all connected.
Dam
Good guy Vecna, waits for summer break to show up. Doesn't want children to miss school!
Great video!
I believe there’s an even earlier scene in season 3 where Vecna realizes he is talking to Eleven.
*Spoilers ahead for anyone who hasn’t seen season 3!*
This is when El and Max go to Heather’s house and find Billy and Heather having dinner with her parents.
We already know something is up with Billy. He isn’t wearing his earrings like in season 2 and he calls Max his “sister” something he never did in season 2. He always made sure to call her his stepsister.
So, after Max and El come into the dinning room. Billy introduces Max. He walks up to El and asks her who she is. She says her name El and there’s this look in Billy’s eye and even his voice changes a bit when he repeats her name. Even the way he stands is a lot like 001 does in the lab. Just look at how Billy holds his hands in that scene. I just think It’s awesome to see all the clues that were right in front of us.
Yes!! A possible other scene could’ve been with misses Driscoll.. If you rewatch when she first met Nancy and Jonathan at her house to investigate the rats she stood in the same exact pose when she presented the rat she caught.. maybe coincidental?
That’s when the mind flayer realized who it was not Vecna. That’s why he overacted everything he wasn’t yet sure how to be a human. He improved in season 3 but was still unnatural.
It’s very easy to see in season 2 and 3 it wasn’t Vecna. He never targeted Eleven until she went to the gate on season 2. Did Vecna forget what she was? Simple no but the mind flayer didn’t know until she slammed the gate on his face
@@scoposteve8470NO! It was Vecna! There is no evidence to suggest the Mind Flayer is even sentient!
"Did Vecna forget what she was?" It's been 3-4 years since he last saw her and she had hair! Obviously he didn't recognize her!
Bro I feel like after the season 2 finale when billy gets in that fight with Steve and max steps in billy actually respected max a little more after that but the show kind of ruins that with billy getting flayed
I’m a firm believer that they made the prosthetics for the demigorgan in season 1 and revisited the scene later for inspiration on Vecna. I think that Vecna used his abilities from the upside down to help out the demogorgan with getting Will.
You would be right as the idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
Also you have to see when you are watching from. If you have the original disks of each season when it came out it's different than what is currently streamed and sold as they went back and changed a bunch by removing and adding. For instance there is more clock sounds that were added. How Nancy and Johnathan started off getting together was removed as they removed the entire part of Johnathan taking pictures of them and being confronted about it.
@@Jalbesbe what? Is that true?
@@laurabernadettefurrer3888 no, and thats also something he copy pasted 3 times.
Let's just remember that Stranger Things was originally an anthology series but due to the massive popularity of the cast and the story of season 1 they changed course.
There was no Vecna is season 1. There was no plan. They just made things work and tied them together because that's what good writers can do.
Duffer brothers have always said all along they know the eventual end plan, and how they would start it. They just weren’t sure how they would get to this point (if they even would, because even Netflix was not sure how far they’d make it).
They also recently released parts of the original presentation to Netflix, which includes some kind of eventual “main monster” down the road.
@@monther326 they are lying
@@monther326 its like me accidentally 360 no scoping a guy 200 meters away and say its all as planned to my teammates
@@sherluckholmes1110 read the initial presentation that they’ve released that was presented to Netflix all before this became a show. Do your research, it’s there bud.
@@hawk12983 and you know because?
I personally believe the figure in the road was the demogorgon
Yeah cuz vecna will have just been banished like a week before will went missing so he wouldn’t be powerful enough and also I don’t think vecna can get into the real world yet
@@Camsvfx_ vecna was banished in 1979, will went missing in 83, but I do think that vecna wasn’t powerful enough yet in season 1
@@cirdthebird1276 that is also what I’m confused about I thought the same thing but it couldn’t have been that long ago because eleven banished him for him to get into the upside down but what gate did she open to let him back out after that? I could have sworn the big thing was that she originally opened the gate and had to close it yes but it made it seem like he had been there a while so I’m hoping everything clicks next season 🤦🏽♀️
@@ashleymontague81 the gate that she banished vecna through closed right after. In 1983 season 1, she made physic contact with the Demogorgon and that is how the portal opened and everything started. It is a bit confusing. I hope they do clear everything up in the next season.
@@cirdthebird1276 this. She was spying on Russians and saw the Demogorgon.
Another time that the clock clime appears is when heather comes to billy in the shower and asks him if he’s okay, but billy hearing a threat. (S3) There’s a chime there, too.
Original episode or new changes. On Netflix season 1-3 were changed removing some parts and adding others. Like bell tolls were added more, and Johnathan taking photos was removed.
@@Jalbesbe What else was changed? I feel like it seems useless to remove the Jonathan scene since they built a bit of stuff off of that.
@@Jalbesbe False, they confirmed no editing like that was done.
13:54 I think one thing that makes this scene so great is that you can see Billy’s emotion just as well as you can hear Vecna’s through his words. I’m pretty sure Billy’s tears in that scene are his own.
The scene between Billy/Vecna and El at the cabin is probably my favorite scene in the whole show! The stakes, the acting, the tension! I love it. Dacre crushed it there!
And now he'll never be rid of me. 🤭
Lol low standard
Vecna wasn’t there. Or at least he wasn’t the one speaking. That was the first time the mind flayer actually spoke not Vecna. That was the first time the mind flayer wasn’t pretending to be someone else. That’s why his mannerisms shifted so much. Throughout the seasons he either overacted or under acted everything. With Billy for example he was unnaturally friendly. With Will he was unnaturally quiet even more than Will was. This is because the mind flayer doesn’t know how to be a human. That scene was so powerful because it was the first time he wasn’t trying to be one and was actually speaking his mind.
@@scoposteve8470 Nope, incorrect. The Duffer Brothers have said in a interview that Vecna was talking to Eleven through Billy in that scene.
interview: czcams.com/video/5Q0iPTc1uSI/video.html&ab_channel=StrangerThings
@@linkeron1 which is an advance technique called lying. Unless Vecna somehow changed his personality and mannerisms entirely twice that wasn’t him. He talks completely differently and talks as if he isn’t human. That’s because he isn’t. It’s the mind flayer not a human
Billy was the only one who broke from Vecna's control without music
I have a theory that Vecna went after Will because of his past. As we know, Vecna targets people with Trauma which would work with Will as he’s suffered from an abusive father, bullying and homophobia. There has also been parallels between Henry Creel (as a child) and Will as they are both described as “sensitive kids” and for example both of them drawing the mind flayer. This also creates interesting opportunities for season 5 as their relationship/bond hasn’t been fully explored yet.
Yup I believe Henry was gay too. They might’ve subtly teased it in the rec room there was a 🏳️🌈 around the entire room and the Duffer’s are really good at callbacks.
I’d say he has a closer bond with the mind flayer not Vecna. Sure Vecna was the one who helped the Demogorgan but he wasn’t the one inside Will’s mind
@@scoposteve8470 Vecna created the mindflayer though. The mindflayer doesn’t have a mind of its own, I don’t think. I mean… even throughout all of season 4 when Vecna and Will are in the same place, he always says HE’S here, I can feel HIM yk)
@@seraphitella2466 Will can feel most of the things in the upside down since he was connected to the hive mind for so long. Actually season 4 proves they are separate beings with everything that happened in Russia. Vecna was busy with everything in Hawkins there is no way in hell he’d also be able to control the mind flayer all the way in Russia. The main body of the mind flayer is waiting for Vecna to open the gate in Hawkins. That’s the dark faces Max was talking about in her visions
@@scoposteve8470 "there is no way in hell he’d also be able to control the mind flayer all the way in Russia"
Accept, that's exactly what he was doing. OMG You're dumb! In the scene where Vecna is toying with Max in her snowball dance memory when she's trying to escape to another memory at 1:08:48 of episode 9, he says, "You think I don't see what you're doing? You think I don't see everything? You thought you could trick me? You thought your friends could stop me? I see them. I see your friends. Just as clearly as I see you. I can feel them. I can feel them dying." Through out that dialogue, he shows her Jim Hopper being chased by the Demodog (as well as other characters too but Jim here is important). Because he shows her Jim being chased by the Demodog. That proves he is controlling the Mind Flayer all the way in Russia!
"The main body of the mind flayer is waiting for Vecna to open the gate in Hawkins"
Nope. You have no evidence that shows that's the case. It's just Vecna who wants to open the gates so that he can take over the world.
"That’s the dark faces Max was talking about in her visions"
What the fuck are you talking about?! What visions?! Max didn't have any visions! Vecna showed Nancy what his plans were but she didn't mention any "dark faces". Again here you are pulling bullshit right out of your ass to try and prove you're right when in actuality, you really just don't like the fact that the Duffer Brothers changed the narrative to where this new bad guy was actually the main bad guy all along. Vecna controls the Mind Flayer. Just deal with it mate and be excited for season 5 instead of saying bullshit like this.
You're as dumb as the Mike X Will fans who say Mike and Eleven's relationship was platonic even though they have kissed each other in every season. Mike even said he loves her 9 times in his heart to heart to her in episode 9.
Always felt something was off in that opening scene. Demogorgons are portrayed as brute and savage monsters, but in that scene the monster is acting very intelligent in the way that he takes out the doctor (elevator sealing - when you would least expect it), unlocks (instead of just... go through it) Will's door, and when it takes Will from behind. But it looks like it was the gorgon all along, cause otherwise Will would have mentioned it, cause he actually saw it while getting grabbed. Was the gorgon controlled... that is the theory I am going with. Surprising attacks and "unlocking" is not something that gorgons have never done this far.
The 'bruh' thumbnails don't even make sense anymore. Like, you aren't reacting to what you're going over.
That’s so true tho
when i see the "bruh" i outloud say bruh
It's clickbait
Leave him alone , that is rude.
Fr
Literally Michael Jae in every thumbnail:
...bruh
Here's a cookie 🍪
Thanks 😁
@@MichaelJaeYT hi dude how it’s going
Here's my theory: When Eleven made psychic contact with the demogorgon, she accidentally transferred some of her powers over to it, or perhaps the demogorgon stole some of her powers (We know this is possible because of the part in S3 when Eleven loses her powers from being bitten by the Mind Flayer and Vecna confirms that in S4). One of the powers that the demogorgon got was a bit of control over telekinesis. The other one was the ability to open up temporary gates (Which we saw eleven do two times: Once when she banished Vecna to the upside down, and once when she killed the demogorgon at the end of s1). Opening temporary gates is something that can only be done by instinct in emergency situations, which is why we only saw Eleven do it twice and not more often. The demogorgon, on the other hand, is driven almost completely by instinct, and relentlessly pursues it's prey in order to satisfy it's ravenous hunger. Which is why it can open gates so easily.
yea too much
I could see this being true great theory my g
Not sure, it’s shown that the demidogs can also open portals/tunnel in the same way the adult can
@@aidenmclaughlin1076 No they have never been shown to open portals. The tunnels are also not portals, they are just a bunch of vines growing from the mothergate.
It’s not a theory it’s public knowledge 🙂 Vecna stole El’s power in S3 by taking her blood using the mushy monster that’s how he can open gates at will in S4. Demogorgens can’t open gates if so the demogorgen in Russia should be able to open one. Only when the mother gate is open, the demogorgens can open temporary portals which will heal themselves soon that happens because Vecna put his will or some amount of his power which is telekinesis and that’s how demogorgen in S1 opened gates.
The duffer brothers have confirmed they didn’t think of Vecna until s4 so none of this was vecna
😮
You forgot. Eleven opened a portal that night to the upside down. But found he was better at controlling things through telekinesis (plus trying to find Will). It explains why the portals he opened are all from the night Will disappeared. Because it is also when Vacna escapes and finds his purpose.
I think that's what they will use to defeat Vecna if all those portals are in 1983 then they could use that to "turn back time" in a sense
Which btw was a line from hopper in the letter
Yeah and he can use his abilities from upside down's creels house itself as he connected it all to hive mind through vines and mindflayer, I do think it was Vecna that Will saw but only his projection like he showed to his other victims in S4 before telekinetically killing them which he can do as long as gate is opened and his victims are vulnerable enough as he targeted people with specific signs but good memories/fav songs can help overcome those vulnerability and break Vecna's influence.. He needed Will like Billy for his bigger plans ultimately to bring upside down in real world and take over... Hopefully they will explain everything in S5
Vecna*
@@AMurr45 There is virtually no indication in the entirety of the series that any sort of time travel, or time dilation exists between the two planes. The fact that the various buildings, and stuff in the Upside Down are reflecting their state in 1983 only means that they were created at that time, and probably sit there untouched for all those years. There's also no indication whatsoever that the two planes "synchronize" in any way, so a change you make in one doesn't reflect on the other. It all leads to the simple idea that the Hawkins in the Upside Down is merely a copy of the real Hawkins, an imprint that was created when El opened the first portal. It looks like the real Hawkins (minus all the decay-y stuff), but it is its own separate thing.
However, the idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
I think season 1 went more or less according to Vecna's plan. He had the Demogorgon grab Will, but let him escape once he was on the other side, and kept the Demogorgon away from him so he could reach out to his mother and serve as bait. When he sensed that someone would be coming through for him, he had the Demogorgon take him and impregnate him. He allowed Joyce and Hopper to enter, cross town, and take him home without interference. The conspicuous lack of hostile creatures in their path was by his design too. The stage was set for Vecna to start crossing over.
However, the idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
Also you have to see when you are watching from. If you have the original disks of each season when it came out it's different than what is currently streamed and sold as they went back and changed a bunch by removing and adding. For instance there is more clock sounds that were added. How Nancy and Johnathan started off getting together was removed as they removed the entire part of Johnathan taking pictures of them and being confronted about it.
When did they remove that? I just watched it on Netflix and that scene is still there
@@Jalbesbe if they do that I hope they put it in a different show. Kinda like Narcos and Narcos Mexico. Let Stranger Things sit alone with this great cast and story. Call it Stranger Things Anthology or something.
Fan explanation to clean up the telekinesis during Will’s abduction, and some other early quirks from Season 1: The physical creature chasing Will in the first episode was the demogorgon of that season, not Henry/Vecna in the flesh, but Henry was possessing it throughout the story.
The demogorgon was an imperfect host, still a feral animal at heart, so Henry’s abilities with it were kind of limited. He could do the door trick, and in the season we saw he could open up some brief gateways if there was blood for the beast to hunt at night. So he had a host, but as a psychic who preys on others’ needs and fears he was limited by this specific host’s primitive set of desires. (Thus, his strategy to implant a demogorgon larva into Will, and to cultivate him as a human host, “the spy” back on Earth in Season 2.)
Also, he’d briefly gained this ability to open gates from being in psychic connection with Eleven when she first saw the demogorgon, and in her panic she opened a gate. But when she cast the beast away at the end of the first season (while it was Henry’s host) he lost the ability. Everything since then has been a quest to both get that power back, and to spread the Upside Down over Earth.
Okay I see alot of people say that vecna took Will. Although I can see why alot of people think that it was Henry...it wasn't, it was the demo. They made the prosthetics of the demo to look like that as a wearable suit, i seen several pictures of it behind the scenes online. Also right before Will is taken you can hear the demo's growl and the caption even says growling....Henry doesn't growl lol he just groans deeply. And we never see Vecna take step outside of the upside down ever but maybe he will in S5. Lastly the demo in season 1 was able to create portals in several occasions so they do have powers but not as strong as El or Henry per say, demo's portals only stay open for so long and close as we seen when Nancy came across one. So I'll say demo's can move objects like door locks cause that doesn't take much effort. It's said the demos are his foot soldiers so it was just a pawn or as you said Henry could've been controlling that demo but they do have some sort of powers to an extent, they just rely more on their animal instincts.
I 100% agree. This all makes so much sense. It makes no sense to be vecna.
Fr people need to understand this
and i think the lock moving was just vecna letting in the demogorgon to get will for him, and not vecna himself
Why wouldn’t he be eaten?
@@owenSpacer that's a possibility, I need the duffers to confirm this if it is true.
So Stranger Things did a better job to be consistent than most other series 👍
False other series do just as good as a job.
@@2mellow35 hmmm, true Detective season 2&3, Westworld episode season 2-4, money heist part 4&5, game of thrones season 8, the flash, prison break, rick and Morty, attack on Titan season 4 and so on 🧐
The amount of work to make Vecna into Vecna alone is mind bending..
I don’t think they knew about Vecna in season one, because they didn’t even know there would be more than one season. I think it was originally written as a limited series.
"Every time vecna was pulling the strings."
*shows the entirety of season 4*
I love this break down of the entire connection! Well done! Thank you very much☀️😍😍
Another thing to notice is that the only time Vecna wanted to hurt Will was in season 1 so Vecna wants to keep Will alive for something down the line, maybe he wants Will to be his second in command after he kills everyone.
Season 1 I think vecna used the demagorgan or however you spell that to catch will. I think vecna didn’t want them to know who it really was so he could continue with his ultimate goal.
*demogorgon
However, the idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
Also you have to see when you are watching from. If you have the original disks of each season when it came out it's different than what is currently streamed and sold as they went back and changed a bunch by removing and adding. For instance there is more clock sounds that were added. How Nancy and Johnathan started off getting together was removed as they removed the entire part of Johnathan taking pictures of them and being confronted about it.
I understand runtime, but this was painful to watch. You don't need to repeat yourself 5 million times.
I have been waiting for a video like this ! its awesome seeing it all come together
IMO, Vecna/Henry may be the main VILLAIN of the show, BUT he tapped into the SHADOW/Mindflayer. This power is beyond his psychic abilities. WE know nothing about the beings of this interdimensional world.
Also, Vecna uses self-doubt and low self-esteem to determine his victims. We were shown Will was misunderstood by his friends throughout the series, as well as his father, who wanted his kid to be "normal".
That is a really great point! I saw a theory that he chose Will because he “knew” Mike would meet El, and they would save Will. Thus, using Will as bait - which is why he doesn’t kill him like he does Barb. Not sure how he would know they’d meet , but I like your idea better.
The demogorgon can affect the real world while in the upside down. It didn't need psychic abilities to unlock that door.
Vecna wasn’t in s1 he wasn’t even planned then that was just the demogorgan during the early days of stranger things
The meat puppet💀
I absolutely can’t
I truly appreciate the artistry behind this series, the whole thing is thought out and incredibly told. Well done to the writers, actors and staff that makes up stranger things
However, the idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
Also you have to see when you are watching from. If you have the original disks of each season when it came out it's different than what is currently streamed and sold as they went back and changed a bunch by removing and adding. For instance there is more clock sounds that were added. How Nancy and Johnathan started off getting together was removed as they removed the entire part of Johnathan taking pictures of them and being confronted about it.
It is greatly done however
@@Jalbesbe the Nacy Jonathan thing is still in the series. At least in Europe.
@@jansonb482 and in New Zealand.
Everytime I heard clock chimes back in the earlier seasons I assumed that it was part of the background music,also I also want to point out the Demogorgon are at least 7 feet to 8 feet tall,and the thing that chased Will was appearing in the glass of the door
It was background music since the idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
Also you have to see when you are watching from. If you have the original disks of each season when it came out it's different than what is currently streamed and sold as they went back and changed a bunch by removing and adding. For instance there is more clock sounds that were added. How Nancy and Johnathan started off getting together was removed as they removed the entire part of Johnathan taking pictures of them and being confronted about it.
@@Jalbesbe the writers literally denied anything being “added” or “removed” in previous seasons MONTHS ago.
The idea that any of this show was planned or thought about this far in advance is hilarious.
always love when the "most replayed" part of the video is just directly after the ad
In season 3 when billy sees another billy that talks to him recruits him thats vecna only vecna can make himself appear as other people he even looked like billy when he was talking to max
I had no idea that they were building up Vecna from the very beginning. Talk about expert storytelling!
Would be cool if they showed him in season 1 already, just as an inconspicuous side character
It was a recon. This was NEVER planned from the start
@@hanshotlast yes it was
@@tiky7 how would you know? It wasn't until 6 years ago that the Duffers didn't even plan on making a sequel, season 2, until Netflix ordered for them to make one. They rather wanted to make it an anthology series initially
@@Zenith200 the duffer brothers said they always wanted the big villain to be a human.
Well done, nice vid. Thx!
Coherence and world building in that show REALLY is... astounding
Something I don’t understand is that when Vecna is speaking through Will and Billy, he’s often yelling and thrashing around and kinda going crazy. But when we see Henry speaking in season 4 he’s always very composed. Even during his speech to Eleven, he’s full of rage but still very particular in his actions if that makes sense. I just feel like there’s kinda a disconnect between his character in seasons 1-3 and 4 in that way.
Probably cause will is fighting back
I also had a major issue with the fact Henry was about 12 when his family moved into the new house in the 1940’s..yet in 1979 he looked late 20’s or so-am I totally confused? I binged everything in a week so maybe my mind was fried.
@@phillyphan1225 he killed his family in 1959 at the age of 12, so he must’ve been born in 1947. So in the lab in 1979 he was 32. But I had to Google the dates to be sure lol
That's because they had no concept for Vecna until season 4.
@@krounos1 They did in Season 3.
I find it extremely impressive how everything links together. They do this every season, and with season 4 they absolutely blew it out of the water.
Yes! Just finished S4 and can't stop thinking about it. Amazing show and best portrayal of "evil" that I've seen in any movie or series. Also, great portrayal of the 1980's which I lived through. My ex-husband and I listened to all of Kate Bush back then (1980's). Virtually no one knew about her, but we thought she was the coolest. We were in our twenties back them, so maybe Billy's age.
oh i love the sum up of all the puzzles you've done! one of my daughters are old enough now for the show so we're gonna watch the entire 1-4 together up to the release of the 5th and final season and I'm looking forward to share the Stranger Things experience with her bc she's so interested of it seeing I'm a total mega fan of it myself with merchs and fan art all around my home xD
If you're watching on Netflix just going to give you a heads up that they added and removed many parts from the first seasons to change the story and characters. If you already own the original disks then you are good. Only mess up they did is in season 1 Johnathan and Nancy are just suddenly hanging out for no reason, as everything that happened that brought them together was removed. No photo or anything.
@@Jalbesbe they did whaaat? 🤦♂️I get there could be frustration in plotholes but keep "director's cut" to dvd's and the original release as is -_- thanks for sharing
@@Jalbesbe I mean I binged watch stranger things like 3 weeks ago and the scene with Jonathan creepily taking pics of Nancy was still there
HEADCANON (although I think this is likely the story, may not be)
I always thought that the victims the Demogorgon killed were taken to its nest so it could reproduce. Cause if we think about it, there aren't a ton of Demogorgons. not enough to take over the world, else Vecna would've just sent them all out once the first permanent portal opened. So season 1 the plan is to let the Demogorgon hunt, bring its victims back to the nest. We saw that it hunted animals as well as people, just anything that bled really.
Then that specific Demogorgon was defeated, but the nest then formed a bunch of demo slugs out of the organic matter, which are through it to mature into demo dogs. I believe the victims being taken to the nest was what allowed these demo slugs (which matured into demo dogs) to form cause Will threw up a demo slug, proving that they were beginning to form inside of him, he was just rescued before it was too late (unlike Barb). dart somehow ended up in Dustin's bin, but he hadn't matured because he hadn't eaten enough food. presumably he was in the bin to try to feed on scraps. Dustin then feeds dart and he matures, etc. I presume then it takes longer for demo dogs to fully mature into their much more robust Demogorgon form.
so anyway point is once El opened the portal, I think Vecna was just trying to grow his army by allowing this Demogorgon to reproduce. Will wasn't special to Vecna yet, just another victim to let the Demogorgon hunt, and take to the nest to be eaten by the demo slugs. The Demogorgon using telekinetic powers I'm going to assume is a continuity error, cause it doesn't fit otherwise all hosts of Vecna's could use it. the Demogorgon forming portals to hunt is, I believe, just Vecna knowing how to open a portal, but at that point he is limited and so can only do it near the main permanent portal, and with a fully matured Demogorgon nearby, plus they are temporary.
Come season 2, he now has his halfway matured army of demo dogs, and is now trying to take over Hawkins. He does this via the vine tunnels dug by the demo dogs, and plans to take over the lab facility which is the only obstacle in his way. he was able to form a physic connection to Will between dimensions due to him having been in the Upside Down for so long, but he cannot control Will only show him visions of the Upside Down corresponding to where Will is in the real world.
We don't know how Vecna recreated a past version of the real world in the Upside Down, which was originally a natural mountainous landscape, but we do know that he found the mind flayer and use it as a perfect means to amplify his mind powers and connect to multiple beings at once and control them simultaneously. In season 2 he uses the weak psychic connection with Will to allow him to get the Mind Flayer into Will despite it being in a different dimension. Will is then kept alive in order to use as a spy so he knows the scientists moves, and eventually Will is used to trick them and kill many of the big threats in the trap. Once the demo dogs are killed and the mind flayer is out of Will, and the portal shut, Vecna loses connection to our world and he cannot open portals without a powerful host such as a Demogorgon and an already open permanent portal. The fragment of the mind flayer falls silent with no connection.
Boom season 3, Russians have opened the portal a fraction, enough for Vecna to establish a connection with the mind flayer fragment, but not enough to send any more demo dogs through (presuming there were some still in the Upside Down and not all were sent through the portal in Season 2). There isn't enough of the mind flayer to just take over people willy nilly, especially between dimensions with only a weak connection from a slit of a portal, so Vecna uses the flayer to take over the minds of easier prey, rats, and draw them to the basement, then explode them. this allows the flayer fragment to form a physical form. with this form Vecna can now take over humans, but he needs physical contact due to limitations.
hence the Billy plan, taking over more and more people to get a big enough monster to attack El. The physical flayer fragment is defeated, but not before Vecna gets a piece inside of El, and manages to steal some of her power, so he now knows how to open portals via a psychic connection. He doesn't do this straight away however, I am guessing because of whatever trouble the Russian's caused when they captured that Demogorgon in the prison. Vecna was probably pre-occupied.
However it happened, the Russian's managed to capture a Demogorgon and disconnect it from the mind flayer, hence why a) they had a mind flayer fragment and b) the Demogorgon didn't die when they closed whatever portal they used to capture it (we don't know how they captured it, but they must've opened a portal in Russia to do so, and they must've closed that afterwards or we probably would have seen it in Season 4). The Russian's then used this Demogorgon's DNA to create demo dog clones of it.
Season 4, vecna can now open portals his own way, but making a connection psychically and then murdering his victims. he has the power and knowledge to do this after stealing some power from El in season 3. So Vecna begins his plan of the 4 portals, Season 4 plays out. Aaaaaand thats my theory.
You're forgetting about nancy and Jonathan's deer. The demigorgon can travel on both sides of the tightrope. Season 4 nancy even says, "when the demigorgon attacks, it always legt an opening" I love your channel, but your missing some key stuff here Michael J....
An actual gate gate to the upside down probably needs to be open for them to travel with their smaller ones in the first place.
Because the Demogorgon could move through the walls in the house too
👍 agreed
@@bhatfield1417 Not with the original idea of the Demigorgon as it was supposed to be an inter-dimensional predator in a one off season.
The idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
Also you have to see when you are watching from. If you have the original disks of each season when it came out it's different than what is currently streamed and sold as they went back and changed a bunch by removing and adding. For instance there is more clock sounds that were added. How Nancy and Johnathan started off getting together was removed as they removed the entire part of Johnathan taking pictures of them and being confronted about it.
I think vecna gave Billy full control in the sauna because when we see Billy go for the shard will sensed him meaning right there Billy was basically crying for help
Finally u corrected urself. I was getting exhausted saying this was the story all along.
great vid! 👌👌
I'd say the first time we heard Vecna/Henry through Billy is at Heather's house actually You can kinda tell through Billy's mannerisms in that moment that they're eerily similar to Henry's during his time in the Lab
I’d say it’s probably when clone billy talked to real billy,I think that was vecna controlling clone billy
@@kycoke1695 There are no clones in stranger things! Remember, Vecna can make people see/listen to things that aren't actually there. That's how he was talking to him.
@@linkeron1 yeah,I was explaining that’s the scene I think we first hear vecna speak
@@kycoke1695 Vecna would have been making Will tell the doctors that the graveyard (in the tunnels) was a important location in season 2 though.
(Jim called it the graveyard). Vecna through Will just told them the location was important when really it was to kill the solders for hurting him by putting the vines on fire.
@@linkeron1 yeah that makes sense
I have a theory about the 6th of November. What I think is that Vecna is giving Will a vision. He scares Will, gets inside his head and then the Demogorgon takes him.
hypothesis not theory.
It’s been said Will is “ sensitive “ it’s the same way victor describes young Henry Creel , just tossing that out there.
Yeah I believe young Creel was gay just like Will and that’s why he chose him and still has that connection. If you remember in the Hawkins lab in the rec room there was a 🏳️🌈 around the entire room. That wasn’t a coincidence and they’re really good at callbacks.
Take a drink every time you hear him say "Vecna". See what happens tomorrow.
In season 1 there's no portal inside the shed Will was shown to be taken from and we never actually see where Will crosses over to the Upside Down, I think Will started hallucinating due to Vecna at some point biking home and was taken through a Demogorgon portal and everything we were shown was just the hallucination
If you follow the logic of this video, you end up with Vecna being the Demo in Season 1 and I completely agree! That demorgorgon in season 1 could have been a sliver of Vecna, hear me out. Vecna wasn't able to open the gate, what if Vecna sort of hopped along for the ride. Piggy-backing the Demogorgon's subconscious, almost like joint control, no different than what Vecna can do, just not nearly as powerful(YET) as the meat puppet. Vecna-lite if you will.
And if you're down here responding, you should also be subscribing, just saying, not saying.
12:59 So this is why max is one of Vecna’s final victims, and he uses Billy during her nightmare sequence.
Love ur channel
Maybe vecnas powers are weak when he is controlling a host 🤔
no
I think everything vecna is doing is to get revenge on 11.
She is the one who he sees as betrayed him by not siding with him, and then sent him to the demonic realm we see as the upside down.
He tried and tried several times to get a foothold on the real world, but every time 11 stopped him, but in season 3 he was able to touch 11 through the living mind flair and was able to absorb her powers.
Now he has the ability to enter peoples minds and create what he needs to com back to the real world and get his revenge on 11.
12:13 I agree with the look on Vecna’s face that it was their first time face to face since 1979 but he did see Eleven in 1984 as the Mindflayer. It is very cool to think that a mere human has abilities like the protagonist but can LITERALLY become a Demigod to a Spider God of a realm unknown to him.
One thing is for sure, they knew they were gonna use the grandfather clocks in season 4 from the start.
Actually, all of the Stranger Things books or additional material is non-canon, so we can only get the official word when the Duffer Brothers speak out on it. Also, I believe the reason why Vecna’s appearance looks different and much slimmer here, is because we have to remember this is 3 years prior to his appearance in season 4, and it took him 7 years from 1979 to 1986 to fully develop his form, he may still be in the process of it. Also another thing I’ve noticed is that the Demogorgon’s behaviour in season 4 is much more animalistic than in season 1 if it did take Will. It seems much more violent, and we see that violence in season 1, when it tries to attack Nancy and Jonathan, I believe the Demogorgon favours in killing its prey brutally, rather than taking them to the upside down and preying on them there. Also, when the russians captured multiple Demogorgons, why didn’t that fully grown one just teleport back to the upside down. Because it can’t. And maybe Vecna had the power to open his own gates when a first gate is present in season 1. Then that explains how the Demogorgon could go into the upside down by new gates only when the first gate was open in season 1, because Vecna opened it using his abilities. Or if this is all wrong, maybe Vecna could’ve possibly transferred some of his powers to the Demogorgon, like how the Mind Flayer took some of Eleven’s abilities in season 3. If the Demogorgon IS the one who took Will, Vecna is definitely still present in that scene due to the repeated clock chimes.
However, the idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
Also you have to see when you are watching from. If you have the original disks of each season when it came out it's different than what is currently streamed and sold as they went back and changed a bunch by removing and adding. For instance there is more clock sounds that were added. How Nancy and Johnathan started off getting together was removed as they removed the entire part of Johnathan taking pictures of them and being confronted about it.
who’s been pulling every evil string? It’s been vecna all along!
However, the idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
Also you have to see when you are watching from. If you have the original disks of each season when it came out it's different than what is currently streamed and sold as they went back and changed a bunch by removing and adding. For instance there is more clock sounds that were added. How Nancy and Johnathan started off getting together was removed as they removed the entire part of Johnathan taking pictures of them and being confronted about it.
it's fun to be able to retroactively apply this stuff, the only problem is that the show was intended to be an anthology series and they didnt plan on making anything past season one while they were making season one
I love this!
We know max will come back in season 5 because Eleven managed to survive when Henry tried to kill her in the lab. She recovered fine.
I think Max's case is a bit different
@@crazynachos4230 and tbh they wouldn’t have brought her back to life if she wasn’t coming back anyway
@@chilliwantsyou someone mentioned on Facebook that Max might remain in a coma but fight Vecna in the upside down because she might be stuck there
Yeah, but he didn't manage to break any of El's bones that time. I think Max will live too, but that she'll definitely have permanent physical scars of some sort after all this
Yes another banger also crazy how Vecna was the big bad I thought it was the mind flayer
Loved the video .
Vecna didn't exist as an Idea in season 1 or 2, he wasn't a thing and that is from the producers of the show. So no. Originally season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season 2 would be an entire new show, and so on.
The whole original idea for stranger things was going to be an anthology series where each season is a new show with a new monster. People loved the show, cast, and story so much they decided to do another season of it like with the Halloween movies which were also supposed to be an anthology. But after the second season they realized it was no longer an anthology series so they then started making it more of a continuous series that ends in the 5th season; they have discussed that after season 5 they may finally start a new show with a new monster going back to the anthology idea but making it longer than a single season each if people enjoy it enough, otherwise they can always start another monster and try again. The entire series may be called Stranger Things, but certain seasons will be self contained in their joined narrative separate from the others, with potential that some may overlap in the future.
And I am totally for an anthology series, not to say that I don't love the current show, but the original idea is also great, like joining multiple slasher movies together in the end
Gate was already opened (7:05 flashback of 011 when she reopened door). Vecna can use his abilities from upside down's creels house itself as he connected it all to hive mind through vines and mindflayer, I do think it was Vecna that Will saw but only his projection like he showed to his other victims in S4 before telekinetically killing them (he have ability of both 002 & 011) which he can do as long as gate is opened and his victims are vulnerable enough as he targeted people with specific signs but good powerful memories/fav song can help overcome those vulnerability and break Vecna's influence.. He needed Will like Billy for his bigger plans ultimately to bring upside down in real world and take over... Hopefully they will explain everything in S5
The gates Eleven opened in 1979 and 1983 were in different locations in the lab so they were different gates. First one was in the rainbow room. The second one (the mothergate) was opened in the deprivation tank room.
The vines were for Vecna to lift himself up like when Eleven is in a deprivation tank. This is so that he can better use the ability he "took" from Eleven in season 3 so he can find the minds of people in the right-side up world.
Where is my plate of fresh cookies? I was exited :(
*excited
Vecna kind of reminds me of Jim Carrey's grinch
I think that Vecna attempted to completely open the gate at the start of season 1 when he cursed Will.
It might be possible that Will’s transfer to the upside down somehow stopped Vecna from accessing his mind.
Then when Will was brought back into the Rightside Up (Yes that’s what I call the real world) Vecna must’ve changed tactics in order to create an all powerful form. However when this plan failed, he went back to his old plan of cursing people and opening new gates to bring an army of demogorgans. Their is one flaw in my theory, Why would the first demogorgan put Vecna’s plan in jeopardy in order to eat a single child.
To this I put forward the idea that Eleven’s interaction with the demogorgan numero uno possibly separated Vecna’s control over the upside down, forcing him to possess Will and raise a new generation of Demogorgans AKA the demo-dogs to which he had complete control over.
After the demo-dogs grew older, he resumed his original plan to open gates and let them into the Rightside Up.
Edit: I wrote this theory right before watching the video. So if their are more flaws in my theory, Mention them please.
Honestly, part of me thinks that Vecna wasn't planned from the begining of show. I belive that put more depth in the Mind Flayer's motivations was hard: Before season 4, the Mind Flayed was a monster that wanted to invade and control earth. For the mind flayer to comunicate and tell more about him, he would have to control another person like it was with Will and Billy: it would be very repetitive for 2 more seasons. Vecna on the other hand have a history with eleven, can comunicate more directly with the other characters and so on, other people knew him before and he creates a easier way to explain the powers of the lab kids (even though Vecna's powers are still a mistery)... Anyway sorry if the english is not that good, not a natural speaker :)
I feel like that kinda took the mystery
This. The fact that ALL the kids suddenly have the same power when 008 had a clearly different power as well as 003, 009 and 006. But S2E7 did so poorly as a backdoor pilot that they ditched all of that and made all the kids have the same power set.
@@MagiofAsura That's not true necessarily I would say one and 11 have similar powers because they're thematically connected in the story and they share the same number.
If you're really paying attention it seems like they do have similar powers but that they excel heavily in different areas of those powers like different expertisees.
Like she could open Gates before he could but he can put people in the dream like trances
You'd be right as the idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Mind Flayer didn't exist as an idea in season 1 either. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
Also you have to see when you are watching from. If you have the original disks of each season when it came out it's different than what is currently streamed and sold as they went back and changed a bunch by removing and adding. For instance there is more clock sounds that were added. How Nancy and Johnathan started off getting together was removed as they removed the entire part of Johnathan taking pictures of them and being confronted about it.
@@Jalbesbe You're saying they removed the Jonathan taking pictures thing on Netflix?
This is such a false theory, those chimes won’t Vecna’s chimes. The writers planned out Vecna true but they never planned out the chimes you are really reaching as these sounds are just to add the atomsphere.
You said it yourself ITS A THEROY
Yay I got a shout out for being subscribed 😎😎
I think that the reason will said that the mind flayer didnt want to kill him, but everyone else was because he was a host for the virus and so the mindflayer could use him, so it didnt want to kill him.
Logical
They didn’t plan season 4 until they were done with season 3 and by then they didn’t know what vecna was goanna do or look like you can see some of their designs that they made before vecna had 4 legs or a head that had no eyes so they just thought in season 1 the clock sounded scary and the right hand was smaller than the left
Doesn't Vecna personally control all of his hosts. I mean, he's inside almost every upside down creature through the hive mind particles. Its the exact same thing with will in season 2. Nothing special with the demogorgon in season 1.
However, the idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
Also you have to see when you are watching from. If you have the original disks of each season when it came out it's different than what is currently streamed and sold as they went back and changed a bunch by removing and adding. For instance there is more clock sounds that were added. How Nancy and Johnathan started off getting together was removed as they removed the entire part of Johnathan taking pictures of them and being confronted about it.
@@Jalbesbe I believe you are forgetting that the duffer brothers along with the writers knew the beginning, and the end. You can even hear Gaten Matarazzo (Dustin) spoil the concept of vecna shortly after season one. They only planned it for one season because they didn’t think it would become as popular as it did. But they always knew the story, along with vecna.
Even if you think it’s going to be a failure, you still need to plan ahead, a story. You can’t go along in the middle of development, or you’ll end up with a hot mess.
And even though they didn’t know his design and name, doesn’t prove me otherwise. Gaten clearly states his main mechanics. He mentions another test subject like eleven that went crazy.
I feel like it was the demogorgon who was physically chasing Will, but with Vecna being the guy in the chair.
It was, Vecna wasn't even much of a thought till S3 and then an actual thing in S4
Will's first encounter with Vecna could have been a vision similar to the ones he employed in season 4, forcing Will to go towards a gate the Demogorgon opened. This would explain why he saw a figure that looked like Vecna in the road and why the latch seemed to undo itself.
Yes good video
Bro said good video 1 minute after it was released
@@wbevespeke321 fr 💀
Yes good comment💀
@@wbevespeke321 he wanted likes lmao
He USED to not want to kill will. That might have changed after the darkness left will
That's actually really interesting!! Originally in season 2 vecna was going to use wills body to kill off bob but it was changed for some reason, I guess due to them changing the story lol
However, the idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
Also you have to see when you are watching from. If you have the original disks of each season when it came out it's different than what is currently streamed and sold as they went back and changed a bunch by removing and adding. For instance there is more clock sounds that were added. How Nancy and Johnathan started off getting together was removed as they removed the entire part of Johnathan taking pictures of them and being confronted about it.
I could be wrong, but I think everyone is reaching. I would rather see Vecna and a mindflayer being and not just Vecna.
I liked it when in the dnd session they said vecna was just high in command and not actually the root evil
Me too:3
I'm pretty sure that was just how the music was made in S1, and plus they don't sound nothing like the chimes in S4, just my opinion
Edit: same goes for S2 and S3
Clocks are definitely a returning theme throughout the show, maybe they’ve known that the upside down has to do with some kind of time travel or darkest timeline or maybe it’s just a alternate dimension or pocket reality. The duffer brothers have known about the origins of the upside down since before production started, if I recall correctly they said in a interview that Netflix made them come up for a explanation for the upside downs origins even though they never thought they would use it, (it was a limited series and they wanted the upside down to be mysterious like the force before the addition of Midochlorians in the phantom menace) but they definitely had it planned out because Netflix required them to do it.
@@agentbertmacklin9880 Clock chimes are a common horror sound effect
@@philosopher1912 but why??
@@philosopher1912 I’m just kidding but they did say in a interview they’ve known the origins of the upside down for quite some time it makes total sense that they would sprinkle clocks throughout the entire show if the origins were time travel related.
not only that but imagery of clocks (Ms. Driscoll’s back to the future cat clock) and references to back to the future are no accidents when you direct a film each shot is thought about each scene and each set it designed with purpose this is especially true with good directors/storytellers they leave hints and clues so it doesn’t feel random when something is revealed,
Season four did this with events that happened in previous seasons, billy actually being vecna the whole time, the mind flayer saying to join me to its victims is identical to how henry creel behaves first to eleven and then to his victims
Also kinda interesting
Vecna liking spiders is annother clue that there’s more going on from his point of view he sees that he shaped the mind flayer as he sees fit but what if the mind flayer is really manipulating him and gaining his trust by becoming a spider making him feel in control while it uses him
if you listen to when eleven sends the demogorgon flying backwards into the board in the school you can hear vecna screaming
Will got a clear look at The Demogorgon right before it took him, and he would presumably have told his friends what he saw at some point. If it had actually been Vecna, then they would presumably have realised that what Will was describing wasn’t the same thing that they saw at the school.
I think the first time we see “vecna” was a demogorgan
Ik people can’t seem to accept it
@@TJ_Artz stfu that was obviously the demogorgon because it was the first season of the film they hadn’t even thought about Vecna yet and the demagorgon in season 1 doesn’t rip people to shreds it’s slower if it was the season 4 demagorgon Steve would be dead Nancy would be dead and Johnathan would be dead but no because the demagorgon in season one was slower (mostly because of budget) but it wouldn’t kill will there
Rip bozo
@@Nostalgia125 I think that's the general consensus. It's just a handful of people who don't understand what a retcon is.
@@adventuresinportland3032 the other guy got so embarrassed he deleted his comment
@@Nostalgia125 well, actually the Duffer Brothers said they had developed all the monsters before the first season. That's writing 101 for developing a larger story. Setting up the big bad from the beginning, whether that was a demogorgen or not, with the clock motif shows that they already knew about that being a part of Vecna's curse.
I think people are interpreting it wrong, the demorgon took Will but I believe 001 was controlling it at the time? We'll see for sure in season 5
I tought it was confirmed in the dialogue between El and Henry already?
"it was always you" or something like that?
No because how can you explain the lock on the door opening on it's own as far as we know demegorgons dont have physics abilities
@@monke5991 Vecna does though which is why I'm thinking he was controlling the demogorgon via the hive mind. Just a theory
However, the idea of Vecna never existed in season 1 or 2. Originally Season 1 was supposed to be a one off and season two would be a new cast and monster with the only common theme being kids in the 80s.
After season 5 they are thinking of returning to the anthology format like they originally wanted, just with potential multi-season stories.
Also you have to see when you are watching from. If you have the original disks of each season when it came out it's different than what is currently streamed and sold as they went back and changed a bunch by removing and adding. For instance there is more clock sounds that were added. How Nancy and Johnathan started off getting together was removed as they removed the entire part of Johnathan taking pictures of them and being confronted about it.
@@Jalbesbe The only thing they have changed is small visual effects that is confirmed by the Duffers. The whole Jonathon thing hasn’t been touched. No link still for it being an anthology series?
This theory is such a stretch just because you cannot convince me the stranger things writers are competent enough to plan anything
This is incredible