“I believe you are confusing opinion with knowledge” is probably the greatest line I’ve heard to describe social media and the current climate we live in.
@@DavidLS1 ...or they look for the specific knowledge that gives validity to their opinion. Even if that specific knowledge lacks context or corroborating evidence.
@@GaryTurbo Commet dislikes meh, but yeah video dislikes were useful. Wojcicki got rid of them because certain advertisers and companies didn't like it. Looks real bad for your product when the video about it has a overall negitive rating.
There's a whole arc of 3-4 episodes involving this world and character. The world becomes hostile and this character requests refugee asylum from the Orville.
@@CharlieRasch it is , even with so many records missing, the Greek and Roman worked out democracy come to this point on so many times, so many data points , is much more complex than just majority rules as it can many times becomes chaos as social media like in this movie shown😊
Why do they get the upvote/downvote badge when they turn 18? Lots of kids need them especially with behaviour, bullying and such, and if an absolute democracy, they wouldn't protect the kids. And many websites are 13, for comparison
Absurd that they don't even account for the split between like and dislikes in their coffee refusal policy. They'd just refuse anyone that's popular enough.
I see what you're saying. They use a set number rather than a ratio, which means anyone in the public spotlight could potentially exceed that 500k dislikes every day, even if they got 10x that many likes per day. To expand on the world building, maybe they should have a score as the ratio of likes over dislikes with a derogatory term for people with a value
Why didn't that one guy just retaliate with a downvote after he was downvoted? Why doesn't everyone do that? Kinda breaks the whole system with retaliatory downvotes or the threat thereof.
The Orville is so good,too many people dismissed it as Family Guy in space because the first few episodes were jokey. I really hope there's a season 4.
Seth MacFarlane is such a Star Trek fan, that he has successfully created Orville to be the next best Star Trek after TNG, and that by even disguising it to parody show. It is sad that Orville is handling far more important subjects via comedy, than example Star Trek Picard/Discovery/Strange New Worlds managed to do at all.
I gotta question, the individuals who established and run this Social Credit system, are they immune to down votes? Cuz I can see activists voting them down at any given chance to mess with the system.
It was likely created intentionally as a corrupted form of their idea of democracy as a way of winning by pure popularity. So they can convince people that their way is right through manipulation. Much like corporate advertising. As for the leaders, it was likely used to remove ones who got in their way.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing myself. I've seen a lot of people who will mess with the system just because they can. They will downvote good people and upvote. People who are horrible because they think it's funny and others will join in to be part of a group or click.
No.. I think that in the beginning the system being sold or marketed as a manner of giving everyone a voice. Coming out (officially) against this might be be social-suicide because the marketing team would insulate the system by saying 'people will come out against this as a way to keep YOU down, to silence you"... Because that's how it's worked in the past.
democracy is always evil...which is why the founding fathers knew better than to apply it to America...worst method of governance ever conceived. but of course the marxists have convicned everyone otherwise...all for a desired outcome very close to the society in this clip.
"Though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; . . . the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression" -- from Thomas Jefferson's 1801 inaugural address.
@@john2510 Let's not get into this passey discussion about "who ripped off who". I could very easily point out how Black Mirror obviously wasn't the first one to use this theme for an episode, and that it was merely YOUR first exposure to it.
Thats the biggest argument against not valuing education in a democracy. Education is key to having a functional democracy You see too many democracies undervaluing their education systems. The whole point of democracy becomes null when the voter lacks critical thinking skills I know this is a popular quote, but it's a dumb one.
@@thedrunknmunky6571That's why we have historians...who compile said history for you, in digestible organized information. Repeating the same mistakes from history is dumb
It really falls apart when they obtain fake badges almost immediately upon setting foot there from a street vendor. If it's that easy to manipulate, why wouldn't everyone do it?
And what would happen if your badge was accidentally destroyed (fell in water, got lost during hard physical labor, etc.)? Can you just get a replacement and would the replacement have all your upvotes and downvotes already registered?
Democracy of the vote without democracy of information is not democracy. It doesn't matter if people are able to vote as long as the media-owning class are able to manipulate how they vote. "One person, one vote" is meaningless if influence and control of information is highly concentrated in an elite few. And it is.
There is a black mirror episode almost exactly like this, except people rate interactions they have with each other, like how you and an Uber driver rate each other. Similar to this epsidode, people with low ratings are not allowed in certain places or to do certain things
Biden is not influenced by influencer culture. He's too old and removed from that world. He's destroying Tik Tok and lecturing college students about protests. Trump was born in influencer culture with cameos and as seen on TV products.
Why didn't that one guy just retaliate with a downvote after he was downvoted? Why doesn't everyone do that? Kinda breaks the whole system with retaliatory downvotes or the threat thereof.
Help? If it is run by social media, it is beyond all hope. "We have arrived, and it is now that we perform our charge. In fealty to the God-Emperor, our undying Lord, and by the grace of the Golden Throne, I declare Exterminatus. I hereby sign the death warrant of an world and consign a million souls to oblivion. May Imperial Justice account in all balance. The Emperor Protects."
First of all, I just gave this an upvote, lol. But this was very inciteful. Our society which is hooked on social media is definitely headed in this direction.
Yeah I was like didn't Black Mirror do this exact thing years ago? I've heard good things about The Orville but this doesn't seem like a great example.
“Everybody’s just so angry at everybody else” In the 1600s the philosopher Thomas Hobbes wrote that in the ‘state of nature’, a land without any political structure, the people would live in constant suspicion of each other; because of this there would be no friendships, no romance, no commerce or any kind of association. The society depicted in this clip seems to show what this would be like in a digital age. We’re not as far away from the state of nature as Hobbes might have once thought.
I don't think it has to be that way. I think that if people were raised to be educated, disciplined, non-judgemental and empathetic and were exposed to other people who shared those traits then a stateless society would work far better. I'm not well read, but Peter Kroptkin made a completely contradictory argument in "Mutual Aid" believing many creatures would cooperate for their mutual benefit, rather than fighting and being afraid of each other, as cooperation allowed them to survive and reproduce. He applied this idea to humans too.
@@jimmyjohnson1870 I think it does have to be that way. Just take buying off Amazon versus a local shop owner you know. That personal connection is gone.
This was the episode when I really started to think that Star Trek Next Gen, if made today, criticizing the modern world of the 2010s and 2020s, would do something like this and the result would be almost the same (minus a bit of obvious comedy).
God damn this needed a fourth season. Bringing her back out of nowhere in the finale of season three set up a good storyline. She could stay on the ship to acclimate to their rule and learn to live in this new system. Maybe even officially join the crew or something, I just would've liked to see her continue to grow.
"I believe you are confusing opinion with knowledge" Both a good summation of this plotline and what its commenting on. Not only is the ides if people being able to vote and agree on something meaningless when the people controlling the influx of information can manipulate what is seen as "the truth" , but there has never been a time in human history whrn information is so readily available; yet people still ignore it in favor of their personal opinion
It’s not from a single episode. It’s from the season 1 episode “majority vote” and the season 3 finale. Her story is a small part of season 3 finale, but a surprisingly well fleshed out one. Guess that’s what happens when Seth promised s3 would be mini-movies. Each s3 ep is minimum 60 minutes, with most around 75 minutes, and some over 90 minutes. Mini-movies indeed.
Congratulations! Now you know why we’re not a democracy, but rather a republic. “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” - John Adams
Democracy of the vote without democracy of information is not democracy. It doesn't matter if people are able to vote as long as the media-owning class are able to manipulate how they vote. "One person, one vote" is meaningless if influence and control of information is highly concentrated in an elite few. And it is.
This also seems to be making a good argument against allowing everyone the right to vote for their "representatives". The majority who vote, do so, mainly based on their emotions, opinions and perceptions. That raises a lot of uncomfortable issues that should be discussed. Of course, that will never happen.
That's why you don't elect policies, but representatives. You are supposed to elect people that are trustworthy, reflected and generally of good character, so they can advocate for what's best for everybody. Unfortunately, this idea got gamed and perverted through various loopholes.
@@mariusg8824People have different ideas of what is best for everyone. Federalists vs anti-Federalists. You can't just pick someone without an ideology.
Were I the crew of the Orville, I would have spent the next several months manipulating their social media until their world was driven to implode in a mass global war. The scooped in the crush what was left.
For me this episode really nails down that there really is no perfect form of government, because the rich and powerful, motivated only by greed, will always find a way to get what they want.
Why didn't that one guy just retaliate with a downvote after he was downvoted? Why doesn't everyone do that? Kinda breaks the whole system with retaliatory downvotes or the threat thereof.
Maybe you aren't allowed to downvote immediately? That creates another problem of course, in that who gets to click the other guy first. It looks like an honor-like system, you just don't retaliate with votes because it's culturally not acceptable.
Reason A) Social Rules. It would be considered really bad form. Reason B) You would tell your friends that someone just downvoted retaliatory instead of with a good reason, and they downvote to.
I haven't seen this show since I thought it looked like just a comedic spoof of Star Trek but this clip makes me rethink that. Is this show any good or is this episode the exception?
While it's true that Orville is a more humorous take on Star Trek, it's not "Star Trek with a laugh track" as I was also led to believe at first. Many episodes are very good, quite worthy of "real" Star Trek, and the comedy bits mostly occur during the downtimes, not in the middle of important plot developments. The show gets increasingly more serious and dramatic in later seasons.
Fox pushed them to be like a parody of Trek in the first season, but the following seasons were more of an homage to Trek with some humor. The best way to think of it is how TNG characters had classy and academic hobbies and attitudes, Orville is like a blue-collar crew equivalent.
The first season leans more towards comedy - think "Star Trek with dick jokes". Later seasons tone that down (without losing it completely) and it gets pretty good.
If you like the Star Trek episodes that deal with social issues, this series does a great job of capturing that spirit. I loved this series and I hope they make a season 4.
Honestly, it's a surprisingly earnest and decent homage and it's own thing. It doesn't always hit the mark, but neither does trek. Overall it's pretty good with some really strong moments.
I gotta be honest this feels like the most basic, liberal interpretation of what absolute democracy is, down to "the mob" being spoken with absolute disgust. From what I've got from this clip, the problem is people equating popularity with knowledge and competence, which is an issue with representative democracy too, hell, most of our politicians still win by a popularity contest, not by merit alone. People being completely subjugated to their popularity, and it being the determining factor in their spot on the social hierarchy is a good idea to explore, but equating this with the concept of absolute democracy is dumb as hell imo
@@cehaem2 Sure the mob can be manipulated sometimes - as we saw that in ancient Athens - but there are ways people can be educated to safe-guard against this kind of manipulation. It's just not well taught.
Why do they get the upvote/downvote badge when they turn 18? Lots of kids need them especially with behaviour, bullying and such, and if an absolute democracy, they wouldn't protect the kids. And 13 better mirrors the social media sites.
If you want to be around people, don't drag the whole healthcare system down with getting severely ill or dead if you can do the most basic public health. It's like complaining about not being able to drive a car because you don't want to wear a seatbelt.
For safety reasons. In times of crisis, some freedoms are restricted. Wars, pandemics, and such, requires firmer government control to get the nation through them
The Orville might get Macfarlane the Oscar he wants... you know that right. These Star Trek stylized moral dilemma human interest stories are quite deep.
No. Even the alien with a greencard pays taxes. They don't vote, or have a "voice". Taxes can't ever become the reason that someone gets a say in how things are run
People could choose a leader that is smart, or wise, or strong, but they can’t choose, they get the charismatic one, never knowing if it was persuasion or deception in that charisma. Our current world is not that different. We don’t ask a test of intelligence, knowledge, and kindness to those who represent us, we just let anyone who is charismatic get picked. That is the same system, except that our jury is not everyone.
It started out primarily as a spoof, but it leaned more heavily on Star Trek-esque scifi as it went on. It still retains the comedic tone throughout, but it's honestly far superior to modern Star Trek.
Why didn't that one guy just retaliate with a downvote after he was downvoted? Why doesn't everyone do that? Kinda breaks the whole system with retaliatory downvotes or the threat thereof.
Are we sure this is a comedy? I mean, if Roddenberry and DC Fontana and Theodore Sturgeon and whoever else were working on the show today, that is totally something they would write for the original series. That is a classic Star Trek setup.
This reminds me of the sci-fi short story A ticket to Tranay by Robert Schekley😂 In there there were public voting cabins open nonstop and every elected official had an explosive necklaces. To many 👎 votes and 💥 goes the politician!!
@@TimoRutanen here's some more fun facts about that novel. There was no taxes! Everyone carried a registered gun and a mask. If you wanted more money you go out after a specific time in the evening and robed people. The agents of the fiscal sistem were the only ones with black mask. Everyone else had a white one.
@@TimoRutanen and to answer your question every political position was open always. Even during a term in office anyone could walk in and demand a transfer of power. Plenty of idiots who think they're the key to public salvation! And every politician in office had a high power state of the art sniper weapon! It was their duty to eliminate threats!!
“I believe you are confusing opinion with knowledge” is probably the greatest line I’ve heard to describe social media and the current climate we live in.
In the history of the world, knowledge has never been so readily available, yet so many people ignore it in favor of opinion.
I agree...you get an upvote.
@@DavidLS1 ...or they look for the specific knowledge that gives validity to their opinion. Even if that specific knowledge lacks context or corroborating evidence.
And our the mainstream news media 🤣🤣🤣
@@ivaniuk123Is that supposed to be a sentence?
Pretty much a world of redditors. A global circlejerk.
Only thing lacking is all karma farmers :P
Why reddit specifically? All social media has the same buttons, and most gig apps have star ratings too.
People here are begging to bring back dislikes
@@GaryTurbo Commet dislikes meh, but yeah video dislikes were useful. Wojcicki got rid of them because certain advertisers and companies didn't like it. Looks real bad for your product when the video about it has a overall negitive rating.
Actually bringing back dislikes does more harm than good because people will abuse it to dogpile on a youtuber they don't like
Love it. An episode criticizing the behaviour of the masses on social media.
Love that you have 45 upvotes for that. Even on a video pointing out the flaws of a system of popularity, people still can't help themselves.
It's also a good fable about Democracy.
There's a whole arc of 3-4 episodes involving this world and character. The world becomes hostile and this character requests refugee asylum from the Orville.
@@CharlieRasch it is , even with so many records missing, the Greek and Roman worked out democracy come to this point on so many times, so many data points , is much more complex than just majority rules as it can many times becomes chaos as social media like in this movie shown😊
Why do they get the upvote/downvote badge when they turn 18? Lots of kids need them especially with behaviour, bullying and such, and if an absolute democracy, they wouldn't protect the kids. And many websites are 13, for comparison
Absurd that they don't even account for the split between like and dislikes in their coffee refusal policy.
They'd just refuse anyone that's popular enough.
Unpopular
@@Lorrdd yeah no. If someone has 7 billion likes and 500k dislike i'd say popular. But they'd be refused
I see what you're saying. They use a set number rather than a ratio, which means anyone in the public spotlight could potentially exceed that 500k dislikes every day, even if they got 10x that many likes per day.
To expand on the world building, maybe they should have a score as the ratio of likes over dislikes with a derogatory term for people with a value
@@DonCDXX Could we maybe *not* improve the Torment Nexus? :)
Why didn't that one guy just retaliate with a downvote after he was downvoted? Why doesn't everyone do that? Kinda breaks the whole system with retaliatory downvotes or the threat thereof.
The Orville is so good,too many people dismissed it as Family Guy in space because the first few episodes were jokey. I really hope there's a season 4.
Seth MacFarlane is such a Star Trek fan, that he has successfully created Orville to be the next best Star Trek after TNG, and that by even disguising it to parody show.
It is sad that Orville is handling far more important subjects via comedy, than example Star Trek Picard/Discovery/Strange New Worlds managed to do at all.
@@paristo There is no will to touch those important subjects by those who want to hide them.
I started watching Orville thinking it would be a comedy. It was more of a thought provoking drama.
Orville is "woke".
@@mikeymcmikeface5599 that's debatable. They had very sound arguments in their episodes.
I gotta question, the individuals who established and run this Social Credit system, are they immune to down votes? Cuz I can see activists voting them down at any given chance to mess with the system.
It was likely created intentionally as a corrupted form of their idea of democracy as a way of winning by pure popularity. So they can convince people that their way is right through manipulation. Much like corporate advertising. As for the leaders, it was likely used to remove ones who got in their way.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing myself. I've seen a lot of people who will mess with the system just because they can. They will downvote good people and upvote. People who are horrible because they think it's funny and others will join in to be part of a group or click.
No.. I think that in the beginning the system being sold or marketed as a manner of giving everyone a voice. Coming out (officially) against this might be be social-suicide because the marketing team would insulate the system by saying 'people will come out against this as a way to keep YOU down, to silence you"...
Because that's how it's worked in the past.
@@LateLostyeah, why didn't the customer at the coffee shop down vote the worker, surely that'd help balance out that kind of thing
@@thomasc8482my thoughts too
This planet needs some Managed Democracy!
Preparing Helldivers for deployment.
democracy is always evil...which is why the founding fathers knew better than to apply it to America...worst method of governance ever conceived.
but of course the marxists have convicned everyone otherwise...all for a desired outcome very close to the society in this clip.
Helldivers to Hellpods!
FOR DEMOCRACY!!! ✊
That’s actually the opposite of democracy isn’t it?
"Though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will to be rightful must be reasonable; . . . the minority possess their equal rights, which equal law must protect, and to violate would be oppression" -- from Thomas Jefferson's 1801 inaugural address.
Words that will be made to be forgotten in 2 generations time.
Always nice to hear about the importance of equality and minority rights
From the man that owned and raped his black slaves everyday of his life.
I'm guessing all that doesn't include all of his slaves?
This is just like the Black Mirror episode “Nosedive.” Very thought provoking.
Pretty much a ripoff, really :(
@@john2510 Let's not get into this passey discussion about "who ripped off who". I could very easily point out how Black Mirror obviously wasn't the first one to use this theme for an episode, and that it was merely YOUR first exposure to it.
@@AngelArm1110 MeowMeowBeenz
@@AngelArm1110 Who did it before Black Mirror?
@@Cal-TwentyNine the greeks
"The biggest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."
The biggest argument against everything that isn't Democracy is the entirety of human history.
Ain’t nobody got time to listen to all of human history, so the 5 min conversation will do.
Thats the biggest argument against not valuing education in a democracy. Education is key to having a functional democracy
You see too many democracies undervaluing their education systems.
The whole point of democracy becomes null when the voter lacks critical thinking skills
I know this is a popular quote, but it's a dumb one.
@@thedrunknmunky6571That's why we have historians...who compile said history for you, in digestible organized information.
Repeating the same mistakes from history is dumb
"Democracy is the worst system of government, apart from everything else that has been tried."
It really falls apart when they obtain fake badges almost immediately upon setting foot there from a street vendor. If it's that easy to manipulate, why wouldn't everyone do it?
I'm pretty sure that police and others would regularly check if the badge you're wearing is yours. Like id cards and social score.
The whole episode is very badly set up. I couldn't even finish it.
And what would happen if your badge was accidentally destroyed (fell in water, got lost during hard physical labor, etc.)? Can you just get a replacement and would the replacement have all your upvotes and downvotes already registered?
@@priruss357 Yeah obviously, when you lose a phone do you lose every single shit. (iphone does cuz it's a scam but thats another topic)
The badges are only a plot device anyway. The same as the people on the planet having yellow taxis and mordern fashion
Idk why, but the phrase "Government by American Idol" made me crack up.
Democracy of the vote without democracy of information is not democracy.
It doesn't matter if people are able to vote as long as the media-owning class are able to manipulate how they vote.
"One person, one vote" is meaningless if influence and control of information is highly concentrated in an elite few. And it is.
That opening line of yours is pure fire. Dang, you said it.
Again, the issue is not lack of information. It’s all the behaviors that you see in social psychology experiments.
@@MahanFan1 Please explain what your conclusion is. Thanks in advance.
It's not a Democracy it's just a chaotic mess
There is a black mirror episode almost exactly like this, except people rate interactions they have with each other, like how you and an Uber driver rate each other. Similar to this epsidode, people with low ratings are not allowed in certain places or to do certain things
black mirror ripped off the idea, MeowMeowBeenz is the real social scoring system.
Best line from this topic, Government by American Idol, LOL - and considering the way things are at the mo, with Biden and Trump, holy cow Batman
And one is actually popular by a reality show he ran.
Biden is not influenced by influencer culture. He's too old and removed from that world. He's destroying Tik Tok and lecturing college students about protests. Trump was born in influencer culture with cameos and as seen on TV products.
When a Star Trek parody is more Star Trek than actual Star Trek installments these days
Wait this is not Star Trek
Fives have lives. Fours have chores, Threes have fleas. Twos have blues. And ones don’t get a rhyme because they are garbage people!
Let's not even talk about negative numbers.
Six seasons and a movie
I wonder if someone could just upvote themselves over and over rather than having the choices made by others.
Why didn't that one guy just retaliate with a downvote after he was downvoted? Why doesn't everyone do that? Kinda breaks the whole system with retaliatory downvotes or the threat thereof.
Out of all the planets, that one needs the most help.
Help? If it is run by social media, it is beyond all hope.
"We have arrived, and it is now that we perform our charge. In fealty to the God-Emperor, our undying Lord, and by the grace of the Golden Throne, I declare Exterminatus. I hereby sign the death warrant of an world and consign a million souls to oblivion. May Imperial Justice account in all balance. The Emperor Protects."
This "parody" is doing a much better job of creating meaningful stories than the new Star Trek shows.
Thx you for uploading this!
First of all, I just gave this an upvote, lol. But this was very inciteful. Our society which is hooked on social media is definitely headed in this direction.
I mean this purely to inform you, it's "insightful." Incite means to encourage (typically violenece).
I thought this was a black mirror episode for a moment #ohwaititis
Community did it first #meowmeowbeans
And you would be right. Black Mirror did do an episode just like this with Bryce Dallas Howard trying to navigate a world that runs on rating systems.
Yeah I was like didn't Black Mirror do this exact thing years ago? I've heard good things about The Orville but this doesn't seem like a great example.
Aren't we all in a Black Mirror episode...
@@PraetorHesperus The ancient greeks did it first.
this is what social credit looks like. we are all going to get it sooner or later.
“Everybody’s just so angry at everybody else”
In the 1600s the philosopher Thomas Hobbes wrote that in the ‘state of nature’, a land without any political structure, the people would live in constant suspicion of each other; because of this there would be no friendships, no romance, no commerce or any kind of association. The society depicted in this clip seems to show what this would be like in a digital age. We’re not as far away from the state of nature as Hobbes might have once thought.
I don't think it has to be that way. I think that if people were raised to be educated, disciplined, non-judgemental and empathetic and were exposed to other people who shared those traits then a stateless society would work far better. I'm not well read, but Peter Kroptkin made a completely contradictory argument in "Mutual Aid" believing many creatures would cooperate for their mutual benefit, rather than fighting and being afraid of each other, as cooperation allowed them to survive and reproduce. He applied this idea to humans too.
@@jimmyjohnson1870 Corpos: where is the profit in that.
@@jimmyjohnson1870 I think it does have to be that way. Just take buying off Amazon versus a local shop owner you know. That personal connection is gone.
This was the episode when I really started to think that Star Trek Next Gen, if made today, criticizing the modern world of the 2010s and 2020s, would do something like this and the result would be almost the same (minus a bit of obvious comedy).
Black Mirror’s lawyers just called…shall I say you’re out?
Ah man I finished Orville some two months back, really one of the better series I've watched
Great episode!
This felt like a black mirror episode
Wasn't this the plot of a Black Mirror episode?
The Orville made it better.
It’s meow meow beans!
I loved this episode of 'Community'!
This girl is basically describing IRL modern society. Everybody is just mad at each other for no reason.
This episode perfectly showcases what a social credit system looks like.
It's the actress from the Ted TV series. Cool.
0:50 Careful old lady or she's gonna call the Punisher.
Thought provoking. I wanna watch it now
Holy zhit it's Blair and Matty from Ted
And call me crazy, but Captain Mercer sounds an awful lot like Ted....
Holly shit, it's Amy Bendix from The Punisher.
God damn this needed a fourth season. Bringing her back out of nowhere in the finale of season three set up a good storyline. She could stay on the ship to acclimate to their rule and learn to live in this new system. Maybe even officially join the crew or something, I just would've liked to see her continue to grow.
OMG this part, it just describes Romania so well.
Nosedive Black Mirror had the same premise, except that was based on 5 star rating system
"I believe you are confusing opinion with knowledge"
Both a good summation of this plotline and what its commenting on.
Not only is the ides if people being able to vote and agree on something meaningless when the people controlling the influx of information can manipulate what is seen as "the truth" , but there has never been a time in human history whrn information is so readily available; yet people still ignore it in favor of their personal opinion
I love that show
loved
basically THIS is the kind of BS we deal with regularly
Well, this scene alone will make me watch ghe Orville. It isn't a subtle critique, but boy oh boy it is a good one!
It’s not from a single episode. It’s from the season 1 episode “majority vote” and the season 3 finale. Her story is a small part of season 3 finale, but a surprisingly well fleshed out one. Guess that’s what happens when Seth promised s3 would be mini-movies. Each s3 ep is minimum 60 minutes, with most around 75 minutes, and some over 90 minutes. Mini-movies indeed.
hey look..... its the #metoo movement! kudos to Orville for actually addressing this issue
Congratulations! Now you know why we’re not a democracy, but rather a republic.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” - John Adams
“Remember Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself”
*-John Adams*
Democracy of the vote without democracy of information is not democracy. It doesn't matter if people are able to vote as long as the media-owning class are able to manipulate how they vote. "One person, one vote" is meaningless if influence and control of information is highly concentrated in an elite few. And it is.
The ultimate Social Media!
This also seems to be making a good argument against allowing everyone the right to vote for their "representatives".
The majority who vote, do so, mainly based on their emotions, opinions and perceptions.
That raises a lot of uncomfortable issues that should be discussed.
Of course, that will never happen.
That's why you don't elect policies, but representatives. You are supposed to elect people that are trustworthy, reflected and generally of good character, so they can advocate for what's best for everybody.
Unfortunately, this idea got gamed and perverted through various loopholes.
@@mariusg8824People have different ideas of what is best for everyone. Federalists vs anti-Federalists. You can't just pick someone without an ideology.
An old trope. First appears in 'A Ticket To Tranai' by Robert Sheckley (1955).
"A voice should be earned.. Not given away"
Thats what democracy countries need today...
I don’t think it’s bc things gotten worse since she got back, she just opened her eyes to what’s really going on around her
Were I the crew of the Orville, I would have spent the next several months manipulating their social media until their world was driven to implode in a mass global war. The scooped in the crush what was left.
For me this episode really nails down that there really is no perfect form of government, because the rich and powerful, motivated only by greed, will always find a way to get what they want.
"Democracy leads to anarchy, which is mob rule. " Plato
Awesome 😎
A voice should be earned not given away
This is gonna predict the future.
"Captain, what she is describing is an ancient brutal Earth culture called CHINA."
1:56 When you give away a voice the worst people become leaders
Why didn't that one guy just retaliate with a downvote after he was downvoted? Why doesn't everyone do that? Kinda breaks the whole system with retaliatory downvotes or the threat thereof.
Maybe you aren't allowed to downvote immediately? That creates another problem of course, in that who gets to click the other guy first. It looks like an honor-like system, you just don't retaliate with votes because it's culturally not acceptable.
Reason A) Social Rules. It would be considered really bad form.
Reason B) You would tell your friends that someone just downvoted retaliatory instead of with a good reason, and they downvote to.
This is why politicians shouldn’t be allowed to use social media.
That world is an introverts worst nightmare
I like that this is lowkey good science fiction. Like, on par with actual Star Trek.
I haven't seen this show since I thought it looked like just a comedic spoof of Star Trek but this clip makes me rethink that. Is this show any good or is this episode the exception?
While it's true that Orville is a more humorous take on Star Trek, it's not "Star Trek with a laugh track" as I was also led to believe at first. Many episodes are very good, quite worthy of "real" Star Trek, and the comedy bits mostly occur during the downtimes, not in the middle of important plot developments. The show gets increasingly more serious and dramatic in later seasons.
Fox pushed them to be like a parody of Trek in the first season, but the following seasons were more of an homage to Trek with some humor.
The best way to think of it is how TNG characters had classy and academic hobbies and attitudes, Orville is like a blue-collar crew equivalent.
The first season leans more towards comedy - think "Star Trek with dick jokes". Later seasons tone that down (without losing it completely) and it gets pretty good.
If you like the Star Trek episodes that deal with social issues, this series does a great job of capturing that spirit. I loved this series and I hope they make a season 4.
Honestly, it's a surprisingly earnest and decent homage and it's own thing. It doesn't always hit the mark, but neither does trek. Overall it's pretty good with some really strong moments.
The Orville "went there" with topics that were powerful but difficult to talk about, and this episode is proof of that...
I gotta be honest this feels like the most basic, liberal interpretation of what absolute democracy is, down to "the mob" being spoken with absolute disgust.
From what I've got from this clip, the problem is people equating popularity with knowledge and competence, which is an issue with representative democracy too, hell, most of our politicians still win by a popularity contest, not by merit alone.
People being completely subjugated to their popularity, and it being the determining factor in their spot on the social hierarchy is a good idea to explore, but equating this with the concept of absolute democracy is dumb as hell imo
Absolute democracy is the rule of the mob. And the mob can be easily manipulated.
But it is absolute democracy... There is a good chance that this is what any absolute democratic systems would devolve into
@@cehaem2 Sure the mob can be manipulated sometimes - as we saw that in ancient Athens - but there are ways people can be educated to safe-guard against this kind of manipulation. It's just not well taught.
If the internet was life… If it was more life
Why do they get the upvote/downvote badge when they turn 18? Lots of kids need them especially with behaviour, bullying and such, and if an absolute democracy, they wouldn't protect the kids. And 13 better mirrors the social media sites.
Maybe they go on their parents' badge? Good reason to raise a kid well
It’s weird Family Guy creator made a complex episode on something that sounds good on paper, but in reality is horrible
Jaysus. I almost thought that guy was Teal'c. No wonder his character design is very familiar.
I seem to recall being downgraded when I didn't get a covid jab, even lost my job.... what kind of democracy does the west have again? 🤔
If you want to be around people, don't drag the whole healthcare system down with getting severely ill or dead if you can do the most basic public health. It's like complaining about not being able to drive a car because you don't want to wear a seatbelt.
For safety reasons. In times of crisis, some freedoms are restricted. Wars, pandemics, and such, requires firmer government control to get the nation through them
How ironic this is more truth now than ever. We are approaching this.
No, we aren't... Not even close...
Red Scare America and Stalinist Soviet Union were far more like this.
why did the girl asking for a coffe not give the waitress a down vote
This is a brilliant series!
It's called Nosedive Black Mirrorism!
This system ignores the potential positive impact of pissing someone off.
The Orville might get Macfarlane the Oscar he wants... you know that right. These Star Trek stylized moral dilemma human interest stories are quite deep.
Orville is a TV show, not a movie. The best he could get would be an Emmy. Given the success of his other shows, he probably already has at least one.
Wasn’t this premise also a black mirror episode?
Orville was great but its annoying that so many people laud this as the best episode when it is basically just a rip-off of black mirror.
My ideal world, where I can say whatever I want and if people disagree, I can lie and have the whole planet go on a witch hunt
Wow, they could be talking about the stackexchange voting system
Profound
¿Do they accept your taxes? Them they have the obligation to accept you.
No. Even the alien with a greencard pays taxes. They don't vote, or have a "voice". Taxes can't ever become the reason that someone gets a say in how things are run
Well we now were to dump very specific CZcamsrs and community’s if there’s a plan exactly like this
who was first black mirror episode telling exactly same plot oor this episode??
A social credit system in operation? Wow. Those old star treks were great, weren't they. How rare is it to see this today. I'm glad.
So basically social media and the comment sections in a nutshell. I’m upvoting this.
People could choose a leader that is smart, or wise, or strong, but they can’t choose, they get the charismatic one, never knowing if it was persuasion or deception in that charisma.
Our current world is not that different. We don’t ask a test of intelligence, knowledge, and kindness to those who represent us, we just let anyone who is charismatic get picked. That is the same system, except that our jury is not everyone.
True. And people will never get it, much less establish a better system.
That is just the US though...
I'll have to give the orville a watch. I didn't realise it was actual science fiction, thought it was a spoof.
It started out primarily as a spoof, but it leaned more heavily on Star Trek-esque scifi as it went on. It still retains the comedic tone throughout, but it's honestly far superior to modern Star Trek.
@@Alpha99333you get an updated for your apt description 😅
@@Alpha99333Thr sandwhich!
Imagine if the popular vote actually counted. Imagine if party leaders couldn't push their agenda, and billionaires couldn't buy votes.
Watch the clip again
What's the point of politicians if they don't push their agenda? That's their one job. (Besides casual corruption)
billionaires could buy the influence of the people, thru fact-twisting propaganda or cheap prices. the cheap prices wouldn't last.
Why didn't that one guy just retaliate with a downvote after he was downvoted? Why doesn't everyone do that? Kinda breaks the whole system with retaliatory downvotes or the threat thereof.
Do they have actual politicians if an absolute democracy?
Are we sure this is a comedy? I mean, if Roddenberry and DC Fontana and Theodore Sturgeon and whoever else were working on the show today, that is totally something they would write for the original series. That is a classic Star Trek setup.
Im doing upvotes via media on a episode of media talking about the perils of upvoting or downvoting
This reminds me of the sci-fi short story A ticket to Tranay by Robert Schekley😂 In there there were public voting cabins open nonstop and every elected official had an explosive necklaces. To many 👎 votes and 💥 goes the politician!!
That sounds like a politician isn't elected, but selected. Who'd want a risk like that?
@@TimoRutanen here's some more fun facts about that novel. There was no taxes! Everyone carried a registered gun and a mask. If you wanted more money you go out after a specific time in the evening and robed people. The agents of the fiscal sistem were the only ones with black mask. Everyone else had a white one.
@@TimoRutanen and to answer your question every political position was open always. Even during a term in office anyone could walk in and demand a transfer of power. Plenty of idiots who think they're the key to public salvation! And every politician in office had a high power state of the art sniper weapon! It was their duty to eliminate threats!!
Oh, it’s the same actress from the Ted show. I didn’t recognize her at first.
Ted and John's cousin Blaire discussing politics.
Also made me think of the 🇨🇳 Social Credit system
Too absolute, you need room for redemption of non violent (potentially accidental errors)
The social credit score they want to give us