The lightfast rating discrepancy is due to the fact that the original lightfast ratings were based on the pencils being dry. The lower ratings are the accurate ones when activated with water, which is disappointing, but at least they are being honest. The original chart was the one with the higher ratings and the other one was put out more recently. Derwent says on their website that the pigment needs to be dissolved fully in order to be permanent. If you want them to be permanent, it is best to work in light layers and make sure the pigment is fully dissolved, or use another method to get the pigment onto the paper like touching a wet brush to the tip of the pencil or using a palette made for watercolor pencils. I have heard the pans are much easier to work with if you want them to be permanent, but I haven't tried those yet. The other thing is that a lot of things are permanent when dry but not if you try to rewet them too quickly. When using these or similar products, I treat them like ink and give them at least an hour before going over them if I need them to stay put. The time needed will depend on things like how much water was used and what paper you are using.
Thanks for all the useful info, Llamanescent. I appreciate your inputs. In doing the permanency test, I did make sure all the pigments were thoroughly dissolved. But going into the test, I already knew Derwent won't be permanent. I found out the hard way, when a year-old painting reactivated accidentally after I touched it up. Since then, I thought it wiser to use a workable fixative before going back in. But of course, fixatives have a way of causing color shifts. They tend to change the look of your painting especially when used on top of soft pastels. So I still use that sparingly.
I've heard people say that you have to use less pencil in order to make it permanent, and if you lay down too much pencil and/or not use enough water, then not all of the pigment will become activated. It would be interesting to see you experiment with that and see if putting less pencil down, or changing how much water you use could actually affect how permanent it is.
You seem very knowledgeable and unbiased! I feel like you presented the facts so I can make up my own mind instead of pushing your opinion on me. My take on the permanency issue: nothing is truly permanent on watercolor paper. Even India ink will lift if you scrub it with a wet brush. At least this has been my experience and I attribute it to the sizing of the paper. I do think they are more permanent than other watercolor pencils, but it doesn't really matter to me anyway. My favorite thing to do with Inktense pencils is drawing with them like regular colored pencils and then misting the drawing with water. The color explodes and you get a really unique effect that no other watercolor pencil provides. I've been debating getting the 72 set (that's why I'm here in the first place!), but I can't really justify spending so much money on something that isn't lightfast. :(
Thanks so much for visiting my channel and for your kind comments, Ramo. I appreciate your support. I agree with you that it's quite difficult to justify the expense when we know the art has a high likelihood of fading anyway. I only use coloured pencils and watercolour pencils in journals and portfolios I won't put up in display, where sun exposure won't be an issue. And even if I know I'd hide them away in closets, I still throw in loads of varnishes to protect them. Sounds funny right? I do keep digital versions of these art pieces and those are the ones that go on circulation. Derwent's lack of permanence makes me wonder if it is true they used pigment-based inks. I suspect they added dye-based ones in their formulation. Dye-based inks are cheaper and are more vibrant than pigment inks but they activate and reactivate in water. Pigment-based inks are permanent when dry but their color saturation is not as pronounced as the dye ones. These inks are used in documents and book printing where archival quality is of prime importance. So as you can imagine, pigment-based inks are expensive. Those are the inks I use in my fountain pens and they don't smear even when I wet the drawings within seconds of drying. I thought Derwent would behave similarly. But I had a painting I made years ago that still reacted to water when I went back in to make additional touch ups. That's when I first discovered Derwent isn't as permanent as they claimed. I learned my lesson and used fixatives to solve the problem.
What I've found with most watercolor pencils/crayons I've used (Derwent Inktense, Albrecht Durer and Neocolor II's) is that they tend to only be permanent when I don't want them to be! Ha, Murphy's Law. My 40 set of Neocolor II are the most cooperative and easy to work with, I think. My very small Derwent set is 2nd and I was thoroughly underwhelmed by the few Albrecht Durer I picked up to try, much to my surprise. When I bought the Albrecht Durer, I also bought a few Polychromos and like those far more. I'm still enamored with my old Prismacolor non-watercolor pencils for their price/performance balance, but my watercolor pencil test may lead to me skipping getting any more watercolor pencils and unstead buying a few Polychromos for detail work, which is where the Prismacolor struggles. Thanks for your information, always a blessing of help.
I always love reading your comments, Teresa. Thanks for your loyalty and constant presence. I'm encouraged each time I see you in this channel. I was also underwhelmed by the Albrecht Durer. I only used it once and never opened my set again. I realized, with a good sable brush like a da Vinci or Escoda, I can pretty much just apply ordinary watercolor instead of use a watercolor pencil, and still achieve the same results.
@@GingerUmali I'm pretty certain that you could achieve amazing result using hay glued to a stick. You are just so talented that mere art supplies and tools don't hold you back. I am thankful to have you here.
Ginger, your tutorials are wonderful, so informative and honest 🌸 No advertising! I am also confused about those two lightfastness charts. Did you notice fading/loss of vibrancy of your paintings in the sketchbook? I want to store my paintings in a drawer because the colours are not highly lightfast
Thanks for watching the video Emily. Thanks for your kind words too. So far, I haven't seen any fading on my paintings. But that's because they're not exposed to the sun much. I have my Derwent Inktense paintings hidden away in sketchbooks and in my bible journaling so the only time they're exposed to light is when I open the books. Otherwise, they're stored.
Lightfastness are mostly be different betwenn dry and wet. That could explain the two ratings. There are some watercoler pencil rating are only tested dry, too. But you have to ask the Company get These infomation Most times.
That's what I thought too. I know most brands have their products tested for lightfastness, as dry pigments and not wet. I'm not sure how Derwent did their tests... Thanks Jiriki r for watching. Glad to see you in this channel.
The charts about the lighfastness ratings are different because inktense was released years ago, and developed the brand since then changing the pigments etc
Thanks for your thoroughly testing and opinion on those pencils! Came here after watching your review on Luminance/ Polychromos/ Prismacolors (which I also own and love for each of their pros). Subscribed afterwards 🤗 I bought the Inktense a few weeks ago and was a little disappointed, also because I think that their claim (to be permanent after being activated with water and fully dried) isn’t true, but also because to me I thought there aren’t enough bright colours, they all seem very dark. What are your opinions on that? Anyone agree?
Welcome to this channel Smarty Muller. I'm so glad you found this space. I feel encouraged to read comments like yours so thank you very much! The first time I bought Derwent Inktense, I was amazed beyond words. Up to that time, I only had few art supplies and Derwent's bright hues was a new experience to me. But later, as I invested in more brand names, I realized that other brands have great saturation too and can very well compete with Derwent. I agree with you, that in comparison with some brands, Derwent seems to look darker. I did encounter a few duds where the core didn't even produce any color. I thought I was scrubbing with a blender pencil because no matter how hard I coloured, no hues came out. I guess this is true of any brand, that once in a while, a bad pencil escapes quality control. But on the whole, I still love to work with Derwent, as long as I keep in mind that these are not permanent as they claimed, and adjust my techniques accordingly.
I wish I’d watched this before spending a lot of money on a 36 set. They are NOT permanent. It doesn’t matter how I use them, I can reactivate the colour when dry. I’m so disappointed.
I was that disappointed too. I'm not sure if this will be of any help. But you can seal your art to prevent Derwent from reactivating accidentally. I have a video that explains how here ... czcams.com/video/bQWnHaDsSpE/video.html ... Dorland's works well on any water-based medium
@@GingerUmali …so true. One of my worst buys were the ridiculously expensive Holbein coloured pencils, oh how I hate those pencils, and I stupidly bought the whole set! Now, after the inktense fiasco, I’ve vowed never to buy art materials ever again..that vow will be broken by next week I expect 😂😂
@@MoonSpinners haha... you're so funny! You sound exactly like me! After receiving bad customer service in Amazon, I resolved never to buy from then again. But that boycott only lasted a week... haha. Thanks for the Holbein heads up. I was looking at it and wondering if it's worth it.
I agree, Derwent is lying about permanency. It rewets on paper, a little less than regular watercolour or watercolour pencil, but rewet. I tryed it on 100% cotton fabrick and it washed out 50% after first washing (instead of textile markers, which are bright and permanent). About vividness and brightness of their colours. I don´t agree. There is difference between dry state, where inktense pencils are dark and dull, and after wetting they become somewhat bright. But regular watercolour pencils are bright even when dry, that´s why the wetting doesn´t make that huge difference. About acting like an ink. I realy disagree, it was next huge disappointment, when I bought them. They don´t move (not even remotely) like an ink when activated with water. You must move them with a brush and they behave ... strangely. Many of them are not clearly transparent and after drying they don´t seem to me so bright, but somewhat chalky/muddy. My watercolours or watercolour pencils are much better in brightness, transparency and vividness after drying than inktense pencils or blocks. If I have to suggest better replacement, I am suggesting Caran d´Ache Neocolor II (water-soluble wax pastels), which act not like an ink, but near as watercolours. They are creamy, many of them transparent, nice colours, moving in a similar way like watercolours when used wet in wet., not permanent (but they don´t claim it :-) and with published lightfastness in their chart. These are my experiences.
I'm glad you watched, FaZe Storm. Thanks for the comment too. You're right. I actually don't sharpen my pencils when I work, unless it's already reduced to a stump. I'm too lazy to bother... hahaha
I did the test, on a old stain, of this colors, and it don't moves. You have to let it dry more than a few minutes. They are permanent. I respect your opinion, but it's true, there are permanent.
The lightfast rating discrepancy is due to the fact that the original lightfast ratings were based on the pencils being dry. The lower ratings are the accurate ones when activated with water, which is disappointing, but at least they are being honest. The original chart was the one with the higher ratings and the other one was put out more recently.
Derwent says on their website that the pigment needs to be dissolved fully in order to be permanent. If you want them to be permanent, it is best to work in light layers and make sure the pigment is fully dissolved, or use another method to get the pigment onto the paper like touching a wet brush to the tip of the pencil or using a palette made for watercolor pencils. I have heard the pans are much easier to work with if you want them to be permanent, but I haven't tried those yet.
The other thing is that a lot of things are permanent when dry but not if you try to rewet them too quickly. When using these or similar products, I treat them like ink and give them at least an hour before going over them if I need them to stay put. The time needed will depend on things like how much water was used and what paper you are using.
Thanks for all the useful info, Llamanescent. I appreciate your inputs. In doing the permanency test, I did make sure all the pigments were thoroughly dissolved. But going into the test, I already knew Derwent won't be permanent. I found out the hard way, when a year-old painting reactivated accidentally after I touched it up. Since then, I thought it wiser to use a workable fixative before going back in. But of course, fixatives have a way of causing color shifts. They tend to change the look of your painting especially when used on top of soft pastels. So I still use that sparingly.
I've heard people say that you have to use less pencil in order to make it permanent, and if you lay down too much pencil and/or not use enough water, then not all of the pigment will become activated. It would be interesting to see you experiment with that and see if putting less pencil down, or changing how much water you use could actually affect how permanent it is.
Its always paid 🙄 spokesman
Good vidio bought a set of 72 years ago just bought a set of 100 they are great to use.
You seem very knowledgeable and unbiased! I feel like you presented the facts so I can make up my own mind instead of pushing your opinion on me.
My take on the permanency issue: nothing is truly permanent on watercolor paper. Even India ink will lift if you scrub it with a wet brush. At least this has been my experience and I attribute it to the sizing of the paper. I do think they are more permanent than other watercolor pencils, but it doesn't really matter to me anyway.
My favorite thing to do with Inktense pencils is drawing with them like regular colored pencils and then misting the drawing with water. The color explodes and you get a really unique effect that no other watercolor pencil provides.
I've been debating getting the 72 set (that's why I'm here in the first place!), but I can't really justify spending so much money on something that isn't lightfast. :(
Thanks so much for visiting my channel and for your kind comments, Ramo. I appreciate your support. I agree with you that it's quite difficult to justify the expense when we know the art has a high likelihood of fading anyway. I only use coloured pencils and watercolour pencils in journals and portfolios I won't put up in display, where sun exposure won't be an issue. And even if I know I'd hide them away in closets, I still throw in loads of varnishes to protect them. Sounds funny right? I do keep digital versions of these art pieces and those are the ones that go on circulation.
Derwent's lack of permanence makes me wonder if it is true they used pigment-based inks. I suspect they added dye-based ones in their formulation. Dye-based inks are cheaper and are more vibrant than pigment inks but they activate and reactivate in water. Pigment-based inks are permanent when dry but their color saturation is not as pronounced as the dye ones. These inks are used in documents and book printing where archival quality is of prime importance. So as you can imagine, pigment-based inks are expensive. Those are the inks I use in my fountain pens and they don't smear even when I wet the drawings within seconds of drying. I thought Derwent would behave similarly. But I had a painting I made years ago that still reacted to water when I went back in to make additional touch ups. That's when I first discovered Derwent isn't as permanent as they claimed. I learned my lesson and used fixatives to solve the problem.
What I've found with most watercolor pencils/crayons I've used (Derwent Inktense, Albrecht Durer and Neocolor II's) is that they tend to only be permanent when I don't want them to be! Ha, Murphy's Law. My 40 set of Neocolor II are the most cooperative and easy to work with, I think. My very small Derwent set is 2nd and I was thoroughly underwhelmed by the few Albrecht Durer I picked up to try, much to my surprise. When I bought the Albrecht Durer, I also bought a few Polychromos and like those far more. I'm still enamored with my old Prismacolor non-watercolor pencils for their price/performance balance, but my watercolor pencil test may lead to me skipping getting any more watercolor pencils and unstead buying a few Polychromos for detail work, which is where the Prismacolor struggles. Thanks for your information, always a blessing of help.
I always love reading your comments, Teresa. Thanks for your loyalty and constant presence. I'm encouraged each time I see you in this channel.
I was also underwhelmed by the Albrecht Durer. I only used it once and never opened my set again. I realized, with a good sable brush like a da Vinci or Escoda, I can pretty much just apply ordinary watercolor instead of use a watercolor pencil, and still achieve the same results.
@@GingerUmali I'm pretty certain that you could achieve amazing result using hay glued to a stick. You are just so talented that mere art supplies and tools don't hold you back. I am thankful to have you here.
@@ArtBrain you made me laugh my teeth out of my gums! You're so hilarious :)
Just think when I'm actually trying to be funny! ha.
Ginger, your tutorials are wonderful, so informative and honest 🌸 No advertising!
I am also confused about those two lightfastness charts. Did you notice fading/loss of vibrancy of your paintings in the sketchbook? I want to store my paintings in a drawer because the colours are not highly lightfast
Thanks for watching the video Emily. Thanks for your kind words too. So far, I haven't seen any fading on my paintings. But that's because they're not exposed to the sun much. I have my Derwent Inktense paintings hidden away in sketchbooks and in my bible journaling so the only time they're exposed to light is when I open the books. Otherwise, they're stored.
Lightfastness are mostly be different betwenn dry and wet. That could explain the two ratings. There are some watercoler pencil rating are only tested dry, too. But you have to ask the Company get These infomation Most times.
That's what I thought too. I know most brands have their products tested for lightfastness, as dry pigments and not wet. I'm not sure how Derwent did their tests... Thanks Jiriki r for watching. Glad to see you in this channel.
The charts about the lighfastness ratings are different because inktense was released years ago, and developed the brand since then changing the pigments etc
So were are the accurate ratings
Thanks for your thoroughly testing and opinion on those pencils! Came here after watching your review on Luminance/ Polychromos/ Prismacolors (which I also own and love for each of their pros). Subscribed afterwards 🤗
I bought the Inktense a few weeks ago and was a little disappointed, also because I think that their claim (to be permanent after being activated with water and fully dried) isn’t true, but also because to me I thought there aren’t enough bright colours, they all seem very dark. What are your opinions on that? Anyone agree?
Welcome to this channel Smarty Muller. I'm so glad you found this space. I feel encouraged to read comments like yours so thank you very much! The first time I bought Derwent Inktense, I was amazed beyond words. Up to that time, I only had few art supplies and Derwent's bright hues was a new experience to me. But later, as I invested in more brand names, I realized that other brands have great saturation too and can very well compete with Derwent. I agree with you, that in comparison with some brands, Derwent seems to look darker. I did encounter a few duds where the core didn't even produce any color. I thought I was scrubbing with a blender pencil because no matter how hard I coloured, no hues came out. I guess this is true of any brand, that once in a while, a bad pencil escapes quality control. But on the whole, I still love to work with Derwent, as long as I keep in mind that these are not permanent as they claimed, and adjust my techniques accordingly.
Like pensil
I wish I’d watched this before spending a lot of money on a 36 set. They are NOT permanent. It doesn’t matter how I use them, I can reactivate the colour when dry. I’m so disappointed.
I was that disappointed too. I'm not sure if this will be of any help. But you can seal your art to prevent Derwent from reactivating accidentally. I have a video that explains how here ... czcams.com/video/bQWnHaDsSpE/video.html ... Dorland's works well on any water-based medium
@@GingerUmali ..thank you, that’s really helpful, there’s nothing worse than being disappointed with expensive art materials. 👍
@@MoonSpinners so true. I've gotten my heart broken many times because of failed expectations and a brand that put a hole on my pocket :)
@@GingerUmali …so true. One of my worst buys were the ridiculously expensive Holbein coloured pencils, oh how I hate those pencils, and I stupidly bought the whole set! Now, after the inktense fiasco, I’ve vowed never to buy art materials ever again..that vow will be broken by next week I expect 😂😂
@@MoonSpinners haha... you're so funny! You sound exactly like me! After receiving bad customer service in Amazon, I resolved never to buy from then again. But that boycott only lasted a week... haha. Thanks for the Holbein heads up. I was looking at it and wondering if it's worth it.
I agree, Derwent is lying about permanency. It rewets on paper, a little less than regular watercolour or watercolour pencil, but rewet. I tryed it on 100% cotton fabrick and it washed out 50% after first washing (instead of textile markers, which are bright and permanent).
About vividness and brightness of their colours. I don´t agree. There is difference between dry state, where inktense pencils are dark and dull, and after wetting they become somewhat bright. But regular watercolour pencils are bright even when dry, that´s why the wetting doesn´t make that huge difference.
About acting like an ink. I realy disagree, it was next huge disappointment, when I bought them. They don´t move (not even remotely) like an ink when activated with water. You must move them with a brush and they behave ... strangely. Many of them are not clearly transparent and after drying they don´t seem to me so bright, but somewhat chalky/muddy. My watercolours or watercolour pencils are much better in brightness, transparency and vividness after drying than inktense pencils or blocks.
If I have to suggest better replacement, I am suggesting Caran d´Ache Neocolor II (water-soluble wax pastels), which act not like an ink, but near as watercolours. They are creamy, many of them transparent, nice colours, moving in a similar way like watercolours when used wet in wet., not permanent (but they don´t claim it :-) and with published lightfastness in their chart.
These are my experiences.
Very good tutorial you would not necessarily need to sharpen it to a sharp point though so use a hand sharpener
I'm glad you watched, FaZe Storm. Thanks for the comment too. You're right. I actually don't sharpen my pencils when I work, unless it's already reduced to a stump. I'm too lazy to bother... hahaha
Its just gouche water colors
I did the test, on a old stain, of this colors, and it don't moves. You have to let it dry more than a few minutes. They are permanent. I respect your opinion, but it's true, there are permanent.
Ty not purchasing them I am not a great artist anyways.