Starting and running the PAW 19 RC TBR model diesel engine
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- čas přidán 8. 04. 2014
- This video shows how easy it is to start and run a PAW 19RC TBR diesel, even in cold conditions.
The engine was removed from its plane, to conduct a "winter service" on the plane. This is the short running session, before installing the engine in the plane, for the new season. - Věda a technologie
Beautiful! I run my 19 on a 10x6 for RC and it never misses a beat. Thanks for posting
Thanks very much. I hope there will be many more videos, mostly rare old engines from my collection, but also a few practical "using" type engines, like this one.
Superb. I had a PAW .09 RC that turned a huge 4 blade prop for my Vickers Vimy. Good idle too. Thanks, Paul in California
caesarillion Thank you Sir, There will be more. I've also done a PAW 149 video, which is equivalent to you 09, but an earlier model (which I prefer...).
We never had the money or the wherewithal to make airplanes, but we loved just running them on the bench. We used to put them on skateboards, and they would work great as long as nobody was on the skateboard.
Method 2 worked beautifully on the AM15, Brian, can't thank you enough! I will be trying it on the other engines soon...I can't believe I didn't think of this, I suppose it's an ingrained mental block about the perils of overcompressing...anyway, steady does it!! Happy flicking
Thank you Sir.
What a lovely purr when idling slowly!
+Eric Tesarski Thank you! It's a great engine for flying!
+Brian Cox I've never considered a diesel before. But I think I should get one to try out at least! Thanks for the video! You've inspired me!
+Eric Tesarski Thank you. There will be other videos.
If you've never tried before. Just a couple of words of advice:
1. Get a good engine, not cheap Russian/Chinese or a converted glow...
2. Get a propeller that you can reasonably flick, not one that's razor sharp and cuts your fingers.
Good luck!
+Brian Cox Thanks for the advice!
Sir,I always find your videos very interesting and informative. I want to hopefully build a plane with a diesel engine, maybe an Enya since I am here in Japan, but I have the image that you need a good dose of magic to be able to run a diesel successfully, the kind of magic that takes half a century to obtain.
+imcarlvideos Hi and Thanks for your interest. If you've never tried a diesel before I'll help you if I can. If you intend to buy a new engine, I would recommend a PAW. They are far better than anything else, except for a few very expensive competition engines. If you really want an Enya, then try to find a sixties vintage Enya 15D or 15D Mk II. They are very good. Operating diesels really is very easy (that's what I try to show!), there's no "magic" involved!
I hope to get some more videos done over the next few days. One will be a new PAW 40, that's waiting to be run for the first time.
I saw on your youtube that you like guitars. Have a look at my daughter's page:
facebook.com/lauracoxofficial/
Regards, Brian
+Brian Cox Thanks for the reply. I went to an ENYA fan day event today. Lots of old planes and old engines, non ENYA engines too. Not a lot of diesels but I got lots of photos and spoke with one of the ENYA brothers. And yes, I saw your daughter's youtube chanel, I don't facebook but I have seen a lot of her videos on CZcams. I was a late starter with the guitar. I ask my guitar teacher "what is the difference between your sound and mine. He says "about 50 years".
Brian - or anyone who sees this forum
I also have a PAW .19 diesel which I am about to revive and put on a stunt venturi - can I ask a silly question ? Since that engine has no problem swinging a 10x5 or 10x6 prop, this is the same prop size a Fox .35 engine swings so I wonder if I could try put on a PAW .19 engine on stunt plane that was meant for a Fox .35
Any feedback / comment would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you all
Charles.
One of the best traits of a model diesel is it's idle. Especially in the smaller sizes. Dead reliable, compared to glow.
hello I have recently the same engine style but I do not master what sai fuel? I live in France and can answer me persone
Brian,
I have quite a few precious diesels with a common problem...a stuck contra. AM15, DC Merlin, DC Sabre. I have tried the old dodge of stuffing the cylinder with a soft nylon rope, and gently hand-turning over to try to move the contra, but I have to stop before stressing out the crankpin etc. I know I could strip down but I hate to spoil the fits of fifty years! Do you know of any remedy? Thanks Charles
Hi Charles,
I was unaware of your nylon rope method(!).
I have two methods, depending on the degree of « stuck » !
First method (if it’s only moderately stuck):
- Mount the engine and install a propeller,
- Unscrew the compression screw a lot, you can even remove it,
- Put plenty of fuel in the cylinder (huge prime),
- Make sure you can turn the engine over gently (important!),
- Then give the propeller a good whack. Overcompressed combustion will often knock the contra piston back.
If this doesn’t work, then you need to unstick the contra piston any way you can...
The following has worked for me many times.
- Mount the engine and install a propeller,
- Gently turn the compression screw down, say half a turn, to increase compression. This must have « unstuck » the contra piston. When you’re sure you’ve actually moved the contra piston, then proceed as above, i.e.
- Unscrew the compression screw a lot,
- Put plenty of fuel in the cylinder,
- Make sure you can turn the engine over gently,
- Then give the propeller a good whack.
The important thing about the second method is that you start by forcing the contra piston to move, so you know it’s no longer « stuck ». You have also increased compression slightly, so there will be more force to knock the contra piston back. You won’t do any damage providing you unscrew the compression screw before turning the engine over, i.e. the contra piston will move before you bend a con-rod!
This method has always worked for me.
If it doesn’t work, then I would try serious heating (oven), followed by the above procedure.
If all that fails, you’ll have to disassemble... but I repeat, the above has always worked for me.
Good luck,
Brian
Brian, what is your fuel tank made from please.
I am going to order New paw 19 and a 40.
I think they sound awesome with their large props.
The 19 will go in a Junior 60.
I am hoping it will not be too thirsty on diesel fuel being a large motor.
But then I try to fly at little more than tick over so the plane is nearly at stall point with the engine just putting away.
Thanks for your video.
Superb engines
Peter
Peter, Thanks for your interest.
Fuel tank material isn't critical for diesel fuels, you can use almost any reasonable material, providing the tank is well made. Even balsa tanks have been used with small diesels.
In the video, the tank in the plane is a vintage American "Perfect" brand tank (tin plate), and on the bench the tank is an old Modelhob (Spanish) tank, I think in polypropylene, but I don't know much about plastic materials.
Dear Brian, I have a 0.25ci Enya RC Carb new in box. Can you give tuning running tips pls.
I'm sorry but I have no knowledge or experience of the Enya .25.
I'm certainly not an expert on modern glow engines and I don't want to pretend otherwise!
As yours is NIB, you should have some instructions.
All my glow flying is done using red Irvines or Lasers, and I just follow the instructions.
Good luck!
Brian,
I'm, curious to know what size and brand of prop you're using here. Also, RPM numbers, top and bottom.
Hi, If you look again at the video, after 30 seconds, you'll see "Propeller is an old Topflite 10x6" (plastic). For flying, I sometimes use a Graupner grey 10x6. They are good as well.
Concerning rpm figures. On my normal RC sport flying engines, which is what this is, I never bother taking rpm readings (why?). I choose an engine that's powerful enough for what I want to do, and the PAW idle is always going to be really good. You can see it on the video, the idling and throttle control are perfect for me, and precise rpm values are not important...
One other point, I usually run my engines slightly on the rich side of "max rpm", which gives enough performance for me and is another reason for not measuring rpm... I'm not operating at max. performance anyway...
Sometimes in my videos, I measure rpm, but only when I consider that it's remarkable for some reason, for example an old engine that's particularly powerful.
Thanks for your interest!
Brian
This is only about 7800-7900RPM, but it's running rich. You can hear it rev up when Brian squeezes the fuel line to stop the engine.
Nitrate and castor oil. Are there any other fuel combinations that one can use if that is not available? Ether is very volatile so unless mixed it is too dangerous to leave laying around.
Hi,
Fuel mixtures is a vast subject, so I'll just make a few general comments.
The only essential ingredients are ether and oil. In the early days of the diesel (mid-forties), several manufacturers recommended just a 50/50 mixture of ether and car engine oil (castor wasn't used until the late forties), and most diesels will run perfectly well on such a 50/50 mixture, even today.
However, ether is very expensive, and it was found (again, in the forties), that you get slightly more power if you include some kerosene, and it's far less expensive. So it's become normal to use mixtures that are fairly close to 3 equal parts: kerosene, ether, oil, with the addition of a little nitrate, particularly if you want to run at high rpm.
To answer your questions: the oil doesn't have to be castor. I also mix fuel using synthetic competition 2-stroke motorcycle oils, the stuff used for motocross, etc. and that is very good oil, available in supermarkets.
The nitrate is also easily available, if you know the commercial name for it.
It's sold as DII - Amsoil cetane ignition improver/booster.
I looked using Google, and found it immediately.
One last point, you consider ether to be dangerous... really...
Do you think it's worse than having a car with 50 litres of gas in the tank?
I've had a lot of fuel and ether in my house/garage for the last 60 years...
Diesel fuel and ether just need to be kept in a well-sealed tin can, that's all...
Very informed. Thank you.
Hi, Brian,hopeyou and yours are well in these parlous times! I'm about to run two small diesels I inherited some years back, and am just asking -'Is the idle setting for the carb the same as for 'glow', i.e. a sliver of moon showing at rest?
Hi Denis, Thanks for your good wishes. I'm just planning an engine running session in the garden.
I think the answer to your question must depend on the type of engine and type of carburettor, but I'll try to point you in the right direction.
You'll notice on the video that at no point do I mention setting an idle. This is because I always hand start a diesel with the throttle wide open (unlike a glow!). Then, as you saw, I just gradually close the throttle until I get the idle I want. That is obviously the "idle setting", but there's no real need to even look to see exactly how much the throttle is open, so there's no need for you to bother about the exact throttle position. The "throttle setting" is done on the RC transmitter, in the plane, i.e. closing the throttle on the stick gives the idle that I showed on the bench, and then closing the throttle trim as well stops the engine.
I hope this helps you. If you need to ask anything else. No problem. Best wishes, BC
@@briancox3691 Hi, and thanks for that. I inherited a sweet Se5a years ago Think its a Keil Kraft), and it was diesel driven (three channel). Unfortunatele, I have lost the small fuel tank for it! Any suppliers you can recommend, please? I did put it to lipo, but it's not the same!!! Also, it's markings are to honour the Welsh WW1 ace, Hubert Jones, who is buried just up the valley from me.Strangely enough, as a regular (cav.) officer he served both in the RFC, and The RAF, and was listed as KIA flying an experimental Hurricane over the Thames Estuary in 1940 ( poss. mistake ident IFF?). Thanks again, Den.
@@denismoran670 Hi, If I wanted a specific fuel tank for one plane, I think I would probably make one.
Obviously everything depends on the space and shape you have available. In fact, just about any tank will do. It's the tubing that's important. So if you use some kind of "clunk", just make sure you have diesel fuel tubing (and for the rest, obviously!).
The best source of "small diesel metal fuel tanks" nowadays has to be eBay UK, but sourcing anything is a bit delicate at the moment. Also, there are people who sells such things among the UK control line crowd.
Finally, have a look at this link. It's probably the plane that you have.
outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=1527
As you can see, the plan shows a standard 4oz RC type plastic tank, so you don't really need anything special.
Regards, BC
@@briancox3691 That's great, Brian.Thank you for taking the time and trouble with all your help.I can still fly, as I have a deserted mountain-top near me, so, happy flying, and I hope better days will return asap. Den, Swansea.
@@briancox3691 Hi,again! I've looked at the two diesels I have (Little and Large!), and notice that in he smaller one, there is another threaded hole in the cylinder head. I think I have a bolt/threaded rod that will fit into it, but am nervous of forcing such a delicate thread before I know more. Is it and adjustable thing, or just a 'bleedoff' type feature of somekind, please? The larger diesel does not have one of those, and , more alarmingly, doesn't seem to have any way of throttling? The adjuster needle valve seems fixed, apart from its normal function of screwing in and out. I had the impression that the whole thing is supposed to turn so I'm baffled! Help!!! Thanks, Den
Are You the one that built these COX RC Plane nitro engines?
No. What's a nitro engine?
That is the type of engine commonly known as a glow engine.
I believe the nitro engine nonsense started among the mini racer people.
An engine running on flat FAI fuel is a nitro engine too!!!
Ou peut on se le procurer et le carburant est il disponible dans le commerce
I've got a brand new boxed PAW motor it's a2.49 I think.
Would love to get it running but don't have a scooby (scooby doo, Clue).
I don't know where to even begin.
I don't know about the correct fuel or any thing else.
Seems a shame in fact to mess with a brand new inboxed motor ( I think this thing is about 50 years old)when I'm don't really know what I'm doing!!
Maybe ebay is my best option.
Hi Don, Thanks for your interest. From your comment, it isn't really clear whether you really want to run the engine or not!
If not, no problem... eBay is there for anyone wanting to let an engine go.
If you do want to run it, you'll see in your engine instructions that PAW specify a fuel mixture, and I also show the fuel mixture I use in the video that you commented on...
If you live in the UK or the USA, you can obtain ready mixed fuel, and this is probably the best choice if you don't really know what you're doing (well, that's what you said!).
After that, to start and run the engine, just watch how it's done on my videos. They're intended to help people who are not used to running diesels.
The best method for the first start is to back the compression right off, really reduce it as much as you can. Then make sure you have plenty of fuel in the engine (slightly flooded), and flick the propeller while very gradually increasing the compression, until something happens (i.e. the engine fires and runs!).
For a PAW 249, a 10x6 would be about the best propeller to start it for the first time.
If you need any help, let me know!
Regards, BC
Components such as ether are legal to obtain?
+Gediminas Jesinas
It depends on where you live. In Europe, people have been running diesels for around 75 years, and this is known, so fuels are available (commercially in the UK).
I live in France. Last week, one of my friends wanted ether, so he went to see his doctor. He showed the doctor a small diesel and explained the situation. The doctor issued a prescription for ether. My friend took the prescription to the pharmacy and was able to buy one litre of ether (repeatable). It's also possible to obtain ether from veterinarian sources.
Basically, if you want it enough, it's possible, anywhere...
+Brian Cox Ok, thanks.
To the best of my knowledge, the cheapest and more readily available ehter source here in the USA is to order John Deere fluid started from their web site (only $4 per canister which is enough to make a quart of fuel) and this fluid started is about 80% pure ether.
so this runs purely off of compression?
Yes. These engines are generally called "diesels", but the correct term is "compression ignition". The ether content in the fuel ignites at lower temperatures than other fuels (methanol or gasoline), and the heat generated by compression is sufficient to provide ignition.
@@briancox3691 I was just about to ask the same question as it was bugging me. Lol.
Can u buy this engine for a rc car I know the perpeler keeps it cool let me know if it's possible to run in a rc car
Hi, Personally, I've never seen it done, but it must be possible. I would contact PAW and ask if they could make you a car version.
Where can i buy this?
Hi, Thanks for your interest.
Where you can buy depends on where you live.
In the USA, you can buy from Eric Clutton (Dr. Diesel) or Ed Carlson. Both of these gentlemen can be found on the Web, and both give great service.
Anywhere else in the world, just buy direct on the PAW Web site. Google "PAW aero engines" and go from there.
As you saw, these engines are superb!
I have a stack of diesels in use. Some of them vintage like this one: czcams.com/video/LDKM-0UvgXM/video.html . The ones without silencer and throttle converted to it. In use is where I beleive they belong and not in a museum or on a shelf. Currently I have four PAWs in use ranging from .19 to .35. and more are coming. The advantage with diesels are that you don't need to bring batteries and the disadvantage is that they stink after use. One thing I noticed is once I have found the optimum compression setting, I do not need to turn the screw anymore at all for the same fuel mixture even at start-up. It should be set once the engine has been run once and reached operating temperature. I also got 2 other Webras R/C, 2 Taifunes R/C and one converted Ritm/Rhytm three bolt in use. I also noticed they run much better inverted than glow engines, and inverted is good for their life length.
plz, roll coal like a detroit.
I have engines that will do it, and I intend to do a video of one during this coming summer... Stay tooned.
Will do sir.
Hi Geoffrey, Thanks for your interest. e-mail me at "bcox0939@gmail.com" and I'll try to help you. Regards, BC