Ren, Stimpy, & John K: The Art vs. the Artist
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- čas přidán 3. 09. 2020
- Coming at the heels of an increasingly massive American conservative movement, "The Ren & Stimpy Show" made waves across the nation and inspired an animation revolution. Its creator, however, is much reviled within the animation community not only for his bad attitude and poor work ethic, but also because of sexual assault allegations against him that were made public in 2018. But should Ren & Stimpy, which was worked on by a crew of dozens, be held accountable for the crimes of their creator? With the help of a recently released documentary film about the show's production, we're going to take a deeper look.
Watch the film: • Happy Happy Joy Joy - ...
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This video is a review and analysis of the film "Happy Happy Joy Joy - The Ren & Stimpy Story". All footage used supplements the review and therefore falls under various fair use precedents, as issued by the Supreme Court of the United States between the passage of the Copyright Act of 1976 and the present day.
“Happy Happy Joy Joy: The Ren & Stimpy Story” is a 2020 documentary film directed by Kimo Easterwood and Ron Cicero. The movie, which was funded by an IndieGoGo campaign in 2017, tells the behind-the-scenes story of the production of The Ren & Stimpy Show, which was created by John Kricfalusi, alternately known as “John K”, and aired on Nickelodeon from 1991 to 1996, although for reasons that are expounded upon in the documentary, Kricfalusi was only involved in the show for its first two seasons, from 1991 to 1992. The documentary’s initial goal was to explore the history of the show, its conception, issues with the network censors, and ultimately Kricfalusi’s firing, as well as his working relationship not only with Nickelodeon, but with his own staff and co-workers at his in-house animation studio, Spumco. For the most part, the documentary sticks to that premise. However, in-between the IndieGoGo campaign in 2017 and the film’s eventual wide release in 2020, the world saw some… pretty disturbing news about John K’s personal life. If you don’t know, I’m gonna sum it up real quickly. In March 2018, BuzzFeed published an article based on information from Robyn Byrd and Katie Rice, both having been Ren & Stimpy fans in their youth, alleging that Kricfalusi, to put it lightly, groomed and sexually abused them and others from early ages. Kricfalusi later confessed to these allegations and followed them up with a rather creepy and insincere apology on Facebook in which he blamed his poor impulse control, alcoholism, and undiagnosed mental illness, which on top of being a deflection, also perpetuated an outdated and offensive stereotype that the mentally infirm are inherently a danger to society. By the time this news broke out, however, the documentary was nearly finished, and in fact, a cut had already been screened. So what were the directors to do? They really only had two choices. They could either trash the whole thing, or they could re-work the documentary, which would further delay it and probably put them over budget. They opted for the second option. Throughout 2018 and 2019, they re-interviewed several of the film’s subjects, added a new interview with Robyn Byrd, and, controversially, sought an interview with John K himself. Now, I didn’t know that John K. had been included in the documentary until after I’d already paid for it. So when he sat down, I wanted to turn it off. I was disgusted, and had no interest in further viewing the piece.
Then he started talking, and it got interesting again... - Krátké a kreslené filmy
In my opinion, it should be one’s personal decision to separate the art from the artist. No one should be forced to separate the art from the artist. In my case, I can still enjoy Pixar films, despite the controversy surrounding John Lasseter’s treatment of employees. However, if someone else cannot, I respect that.
John had talent and innovation, and definitely got the series up and running, but Bob Camp is largely responsible for the show's highlights.
Nah Bob Camp made the show go overboard
Bob Camp didn't get Ren and Stimpy and not only that, he acted like he was the creator of the cartoon. So no, he didn't.
@@alicemargiela John was an ingredient of the show’s success, he was not the sole reason that it was good. Camp kept things focused and made sure things didn’t go too far. He essentially kept the show balanced, and you’re forgetting Adult Party Cartoon, where Camp wasn’t there to tell John “no”. John K is only good when people know how to tell him “no”, similar to George Lucas with the prequels. The reason Star Wars turned out well was that Lucas wasn’t the only one on board. But when the prequels came out, everyone forgot that and essentially made George Lucas the only one in charge. The same thing happened with Ren and Stimpy Adult Party Cartoon. They made John K the only one in charge, and it went too far with its material. You may think it was executive meddling, but you can’t really trust John K on anything. He made up a whole bunch of stories on why he was fired from the original R&S only for the truth to come out.
What most people don't seem to know is that Bob Camp was even more (verbally) abusive, and known as "John's right-hand asshole". He went as far as threatening to punch people through the wall or even to kill them
This comment is, legitimately, the only accusation I can find that Bob Camp… *checks notes* “threatened to go Super Saiyan 3 and launch animators through three skyscrapers miles apart”. You’re gonna need to find me a source on that one.
Ren and stimpy is my favorite show ever.
I'm really looking forward for the reboot out of very morbid curiosity. Pretty interesting video over all
Well I got bad news for you, the creator of Ren and Stimpy is rebooting them as an adult cartoon again, I don't like it when he ruined ren and stimpy by turning them into the adult cartoon. I like it better when they on Nickelodeon, not to be put on Comedy Central as an adult cartoon.
They're making a reboot??
@@lukecross4819 yeah.
www.cartoonbrew.com/tv/billy-west-says-ren-stimpy-reboot-still-on-at-comedy-central-200451.html
There's been some rumors circulating that the reboot was canned but it doesn't appear to be the case
@@ChurchoftheLatterDayShrek oh well cant wait to watch this train wreck considering the adult party version was cancled only after three episodes.
@@lukecross4819 i wouldn't be so quick to judge it just yet. I'd wait untill we see some trailers at the very least.
I think that John K. needs to get some serious help ASAP.
Rather than saying Spongebob appropriated the gross-out closeups, it's more the fact that over 70% of the animators on Games' RnS later ended up working on Spongebob. Vincent Waller is definitely responsible for their increase following season 4 when he took over as creative director. Also the gross out shots were a product of Bill Wray, not so much John, though it can be argued he directed them be included in the first place. Also damn, you missed the chance to show an Egoraptor, Zeurel or Spazkid toon when they seemed to take after John way more than other newgrounds/internet animators. Aside from that, a good video overall.
I did show Egoraptor - Metal Gear Awesome was the first clip I showed in the montage. As for the others, the point wasn’t so much that the animators “took after” John K (that list would have been a lot shorter), just that independent internet animation was something that John K led the charge on. In my rush to get this video out I did neglect to mention that many Ren & Stimpy alumni went on to visually define Spongebob and other shows - that’s my bad.
He was a genius when it came to animation, story telling, and character designs, and giving attention to more obscure cartoons, but yeah he has problems with how he treated his staff and voice actors, and molesting those under aged girls, and yes Ren and Stimpy and the other shows he worked on were team efforts he wasn't the only reason why those shows were great and successful.
MrJohnffrey87 He really wasn't. He was incredible at cartooning and directing, but the actual writing, storytelling, and animating was all Bob Camp. John K by himself cannot write at all; just look at APC and everything he wrote post-RnS. I actually don't hate Cans Without Labels, but I wouldn't exactly call it the pinnacle of writing either.
This. Kricfalusi was an incredible director and his animation philosophy was revolutionary at the time, but that was it. He had a whole team to lean on when it came to everything else and once they were gone, it became apparent that he didn’t actually know a thing about storytelling or even really what made R&S funny in the first place. Compound that with everything else about him...
@@MrMattimation Same. I would argue that he dropped the ball with directing on Cans Without Labels and APC, so I would say the videos he directed make him more of a "one hit wonder."
The Ripping Friends and wired Yogi Bear cartoons that John K made made for Cartoon Network were garbage as well.
@@MrMattimation i wouldnt even call him a good director. his whole philosophy for spumco was letting artists do what they want and not be held to the authoritarian standards of places like filmation in the 70's/80's.
yet on ren and stimpy and every other project, he abused and overworked his staff. always rejecting perfectly fine work for nonsensical reasons to appease his demented view of perfection.
was spumco really any less authoritarian than filmation in that regard?
If Comedy Centeral wanted to do Ren & Stimpy again, I suggest that they should do reruns of the show and maybe release the banned and aired episodes uncut as well since Comedy Centeral can get away with edgier stuff anyway.
OH NO! NOT THE ADULT PARTY CARTOON ONES!!!! THESE ONES ARE VERY BAD!
2:48 No wonder modern SpongeBob feels more like Ren & Stimpy. Had no idea Vincent Waller was the original artist of Ren & Stimpy. It makes sense to me now.
Great video essay, and I agree with you on some points, but seriously? You went through task of explaining other shows being allowed to continue, despite their problematic creators, and believing Ren and Stimpy to be more than just John K, just to arrive at a shitty advertisement for the petition? What about the creators of other shows having a platform to abuse young children? Surely those creators are still given ground to re-abuse if given the chance.
My belief that Ren & Stimpy should not be rebooted was rooted much more in the idea that it was a product of its time and that rebooting the show would go against what the show itself stood for when it first premiered.
Great video essay. Wishing you the best with your animation.
If Comedy Central really wants to reboot old stuff just to get back into the animation scene, there's plenty of adult-oriented IPs of theirs besides Ren & Stimpy they could pick from instead. I'm personally still waiting for ANY ViacomCBS studio to make a series based on the animated movie Rango. That might can fit on CC with the kind of humor it'd have.
The only reason I'm not suggesting an entirely original animated show for CC to make is... well, almost none of their original animated stuff outside of South Park has really been successful. That's pretty much why they're suddenly relying on reboots.
If only Comedy Central had, like, some kinda Matt Groening show they could throw money at, or something.
I like it better if they bring back ren and stimpy on Nickelodeon, not as an adult cartoon on Comedy Central.
It’s honestly disappointing that Comedy Central would pick up this than anything else cause they always end up canceling them .
As for me, this should be done by the creator of the show himself, or at least act as a consultant. And then John's reputation was defamed, and his characters and the universe were completely taken away !!!
To John Krisfalusi's credit he did say this in the documentary:
"The show is the show. And there is a lot of creative people that contributed to it. So whether you like me or hate me, I would hope that that wouldn't color your enjoyment of the show because there is Bob Camp, Jim Smith, Lynne Naylor, and Chris Riccardi and on and on....all these talented people that contributed to the show."
So say what you want about him (and I have plenty), he is honest.
neeeeeeeeeeeerd
@@DosAleph Here's your funniest person of the week award, that was incredibly hilaroius and original! Props to you! 🏆
I have the feeling that with this documentary it seems that John. K will definitely be improving as a person, and apparently will no longer criticize other animations for not meeting his standards.
homestar runner was a great, early internet cartoon. R&S came along and i said, "finally, something is funny"
john k is like if chris chan somehow got a cartoon
Shit, thanks for making this video. I was completely unaware up until now but somehow not surprised.
What a great video! I enjoyed watching. I very much respect what John has done for the animation industry he's an interesting cartoon creator but him as a person is pretty insane. Great job with the video, man!
Ren and Stimpy shouldn’t come back, but animation wouldn’t be where it is today without it. They still should do more original stuff and less reboots.
Ren and Stimpy should be reboot but not as an adult cartoon again, I like it better when ren and stimpy is on Nickelodeon for kids, to be the adult cartoon.
The happy happy joy joy song will forever be the best song in the show.
But even if a reboot did come out and people started finding out about John K. wouldn't that be a good thing? Because then if they found out about him they'd immediately see that he's a predator because, let's be honest, type his name into Google and what do you get? plenty articles with titles like "The Disturbing Secret Behind An Iconic Cartoon: Underage Sexual Abuse" (Buzzfeed) and "'Ren & Stimpy' Creator John Kricfalusi Won't Be Involved in Reboot After Sexual Misconduct Allegations" (Newsweek) so it's not as if he can so easily become a predator once more.
Unfortunately, not that simple. He still gets DMs from fans somewhat often despite all of that, people who either still somehow don’t know or, unfortunately, don’t care about what other people say about him. You can thank the crusade against “cancel culture” for that one.
@@MrMattimation Ah yes, true
10:10 Whats that???
What’s the series at 9:50?
“Starbarians” by Harry Partridge: m.czcams.com/video/SOuNeX9kmWw/video.html
I'm going to google it now, but what the hell happened to Clarence?! He was such a good boy....
The creator was accused of sexually harassing coworkers at Cartoon Network back in 2014 and Spencer Rothbell stepped in to replace him as showrunner, ironically making the series MORE artist-driven than it originally was (the original creator didn’t have much to do with the show other than creating the premise and voicing the main character).
@@MrMattimation I love that boy Clarence and his buddies Jeff and Sumo. I just watched Happy Happy Joy Joy last night... It seems like John K has a lot of family PTSD, not that it's a reason to do what he did... I'm a little disturbed by the men involved that just shrugged this behavior off because he's some "genius". I'm all for the Ren and Stimpy-esque humor, but not at the cost of a child's well being. Or is that the whole "more money, more problems" dilemma?
They already put his name in the spot ligth again with the documentary and año the comments and the interviews.
I actually wanna see a ren and stimpy reboot
The loud was is not only a hit, but on e of my favorite tv show in the 16’s
10:14 what is this clip from?
“Life In Portal: Madness” by Ebolaworld
@@MrMattimation oh wait sorry I mean the one on 10:15
@@AkiraLionPilot Crash Zoom: Sky Scam by TomSka
@@MrMattimation oh okay thanks again!
John is gonna die any second now
Great, but what's this got to do with the nozzle on the end of my washing machine hose?
John K. Gave us Ren and Stimpy. Weird guy and poor dating choices, but talented artist.
How about character vs the person
I am recently rewatching this in light of the recent allegations and ousting of Rick and Morty creator, Justin Roiland, and it does seem like the show will continue on without him with many people and fans being able to imitate Roiland's voice acting with no problem. Safe to say, the fandom surrounding it might be willing to continue on without them as like Clarence and The Loud House, though the high visibility of Rick and Morty definitely felt like a huge spotlight on the actions of Adult Swim and the studio behind the show.
Interested to see how the Rick & Morty situation unfolds. This is probably the closest analogue we have in the modern age to the Ren & Stimpy situation and even then it’s not exact - we have the internet now, which I’m sure is going to massively influence how the post-Roiland shows are received.
On what do you base the claim that the filmmakers behind Happy Happy Joy Joy are big fans of the show? Pretty much every article I saw about it says they weren't, and that one of them had never seen it prior to the decision to make a film.
Ron Cicero gushes about the show in the indiegogo campaign. It would’ve taken an extremely dedicated pair to track down a lot of the interviewees, many of whom refuse to speak publicly about Ren & Stimpy. It was an assumption I made based on that and the content of the film itself.
@@MrMattimation Well of course you gush about the thing you want to make a film about: that's how you get backers. It's Marketing 101. You don't need to be a fan of something at the start to do a good job. In fact, fans are often too close to the material to do the subject justice.
The behavior of the creator of the show behind the scenes has nothing to do with the content of the show, period - unless it somehow encourages the audience to normalize that behavior. This video is the first time I've heard of sexual assault by John K. I simply don't follow the animation industry closely enough to have heard about it. If you are reading this on a cellphone, get off your high horse, a child made your precious device in a far off country for pennies an hour (as well as the clothes you are wearing.) Enough moral outrage... You are all hypocrites.
I'm pretty sure you can both simultaneously be against someone grooming a child, and children being exploited through labor. It's unavoidable to just not use any product that's been made through the exploitation of people, especially if you're poor and can't afford to be picky with how you spend your money. You do know that right? Does this now mean we cannot call out questionable behavior of people in power if we choose to buy a laptop so we can work at our jobs and feed ourselves and are children now?
If Comedy Central rebooted R&S, then they should credit John K. for creating the characters.
All I see is what he could have been
John k love's to watch cuties
80’s cartoons weren’t written by executives. Good Lord. And where are you getting the idea that MLP “put faith into toy driven cartoons again”? Transformers has had a single year with nothing on shelves.
Tell stories and then sell toys and video games to kids
Oh man, really "the monster"? We get it, you're a good boy.
We hate the way you trash John Kricfalusi, cause we love old John K. so much, that I think his dad, Michael K., passed away in his 90s!!
Fiirrrrst!!!!
Congrats
9
No one cares
@@WhiteSharkfsul your mom
Ren and stimpys creator wasnt a bad person he was abused to be a bad person becuase his dad emotionally abused him
Abused people don’t have to continue that cycle of abuse. Pain doesn’t have to beget pain.
@@MrMattimation Apparently his dad visited the Spumco offices sometimes and they said how much of a pleasant person he was to be around. So it's up to debate how John's father really was.
Ugh, visuals are good but your sound is the worst!
I hate ren and stimpy its awful. I dislike the grotesque art, I hate the over the top faces, and I don't like the low brow humor. But they can reboot it if they want to its just ip.
Your profile picture is Bart Simpson
@@MrMattimation Yes the superior with actual humor. It knows how to mix smart comedy with low brow. Ren and Stimpy is just crass.
@@MrMattimation I like light heated physical comedy as much as the next guy but they go too far to the point where its not funny anymore. They over do it to the point where it is disturbing to look at. I've seen less grotesque imagry on Family Guy another better show.
@@Blueit3 I watched the whole video I just disagree. And its ironic that this is coming from someone who dislikes Ren and Stimpy. Also I don't see people complaing about La CassaGranges the Loud House spinoff. This is thinking more with emotion instead of logic objectivly its just a dumb cartoon Its there property and they can do what they want with it.
@@Blueit3 That PPG reboot sure is garbage.
Me and my podcast friend interviewed the filmmakers on our pod! If you’d like to see it!! m.czcams.com/video/PN4ReHM0WWo/video.html