The Biggest Plot Holes In The Cell Saga
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- čas přidán 26. 01. 2023
- In this video Laughingstock Media explains the BIGGEST PLOT HOLES in the Cell Saga of Dragon Ball Z.
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There's no plot holes in Dragon Ball whatsoever- it's the most perfectly written story of all time! 😤
No gods who can see all of the universe noticed broly on planet vampa but that isnt cause they didnt explain that it was a concious writting choice and mfs like to pretend there are "holes" in the plot smh 🙄
Toriyama has literally stated he made shit up after Frieza
Just because its famous doesn't make it perfect
Do..
Do you know what a joke is?
@@xdrdm7096apparently not…
First
Fun Fact: in the Early Funimation Dub: they changed Cell’s explanation of how he survived his explosion. Rather then having a mass inside his head, he said every cell has a life of its own. If even one cell survives, that’s all he needs.
That's almost as op as buu's
that at least makes more sense or is more consistent with how he survived Gokus warp blast.
@@lebaneseedgyist5073 for sure, I was thinking the same thing.
Lol wow. So even then they probably realized the plot hole and rewrote that part. Something that should've been carried over all later tellings of the story/manga rereleases.
So your telling me that DBZ Kai was so loyal to the original manga script that they would keep a plot hole about Cell's cluster of cells in his head as opposed to something that fixes the plot-hole in the original DBZ? okay.
Trunks being contradictory with time travel is explainable as him initially being misinformed. Nobody Bulma knew has ever gone back in time so maybe they assumed it worked on Back to the Future rules. But when their timeline didn't change it proved the multiverse theory of time travel was right
Wonder how strong Cell would've been if he had gotten the DNA from the Piccolo/Kami Fusion instead of just Piccolo.
@@blackzero786I mean he absorbed an arm so he would've got a lil power boost
Yeah, that seems obvious.
Multiverse theory's a bitch
Greetings my friends from beyond and within the grave. In the short time in which we inhabit this world, It would be my honor to offer you a new life with Christ. Let today be the day you begin✝️
This is not a plot hole but something that have bothered some people about the cell saga and that is how the characters are able to end the saga whatever they want but they just continue to make it even longer.
1- The z fighters could have ended the saga if they destroy the androids before they are awaken.
2- Piccolo could've ended the saga if he one shot cell.
3- Vegeta could've ended the saga, but he didn't because he is a saiyan.
4- Gohan could've ended the saga but instead he wasted time by playing with him.
5- When cell lost 18, the other z fighters could've kill him but they were watching the fight when in fact they could've end the saga.
I actually made a video about your first point. You can find it here: czcams.com/video/k5ke00EVadI/video.html
@Laughingstock Media Just watched it, and I agree with all of your points mike 😊
@Abdullahi Farah I don't think so, if all of the z fighters group attacked semi perfect cell in all directions, then he wouldn't even have a single cell left to regenerate
Welcome to dragon ball, where ego and hubris is the real final boss
I think piccolo one shooting cell is a reach
The first two are not plot holes, they are clearly showing that Trunks does not fully understand how the multiverse works when he first appears. Both in that he was unaware of Instantaneous Movement and that he was unaware of his future not changing due to actions in the past.
That's what I was going to say. Even in the anime Trunks learned of the branching timelines when he returned when the Androids arrived. That was when he discovered these actions did not change his future.
trunks not fully understanding time travel is exusealbe but how come he didn't know about the instant transmission?
@@roxonightreturns Because Future Bulma forgot to tell Trunks about it.
@@roxonightreturns how did he not know about something he never saw before? lol come on if Bulma didn't tell him how would he know?
@@rongill1234 what? Bulma could have just said that Goku arrived when she told trunks. Bulma has been known to forget important details
For the first one that was trunks first jump to the past wasn't it so he could have assumed that it would affect his timeline but after he goes back and sees nothing changed then he learns that going back in time and changing things only affects that timeline
its dragon ball so who cares.
@@donnieconyers2829 most people care
@@notamethadict well most people are pieces of shit that need to die.
yeah this is seemingly a pretty simple and absolutely accurate explanation
Right how could have left that very important factor out...Trunks was from a different timeline
Cell was completely surprised he could regenerate from a self destruct. I really don't believe cell understood what his body was capable of after his two new forms. I took it as his understanding was of his imperfect specs.
Cell was born the ultimate biological weapon so in theory, he has the most potential
I am not surprised if we go by your comment, Cell’s design was to perfect his flaws over course of time to truly be perfect.
Being able to surpass the Sayian’s zenkai and Namekian regeneration makes sense
I can also see his cells having life of their own similar to Frieza’s ability to survive horrific injuries despite not being able to regeneration
Canon or not, Frieza has amazing endurance.
The first one isn't a plot hole around all. It is before he ever went back to the Future. So he didn't know that changing past doesn't change HIS present. He was still under the impression that helping Goku will help out His time as well
Yep this is how i interpreted it as well
@@TheSodaShop That’s not even how you interpreted it. That’s literally EXACTLY how Toriyama originally wrote it. When Trunks comes back to the main timeline, he expresses clear confusion that nothing had changed.
But the problem is that trunks had to recognize at the time that his past is different from where he is right now.
I can still roughly remember him saying that Goku would arrive on Earth 3 hours later and defeat Freeza. By then some people will die in this time. Trunks wanted to prevent this.
So that means that in his past, Goku arrived on earth 3 hours later and wasn't able to teleport or he was asleep and missed rescuing the people or whatever.
Trunks should have known from the beginning that Goku can teleport and didn't show up 3 hours later and Freeza and his troops caused chaos during that time.
So that means that he should already know at the time that there are two different events. One where Goku could have teleported himself directly to Freeza and one where he couldn't or didn't do it and only arrived 3 hours later.
Agreed. Trunks thought that and was shocked that changing the past didn't change his specific future.
@@Fuchsfeuer he was just misinformed. Bulma probably didn't hear all the details because she was staying far enough away to not get hurt
I don't know who would say dragon ball has no plot holes whatsoever, in fact, Launch went through a plot hole and was never seen again.
Cell assumed Piccolo couldn't regenerate because he assumed he stole so much power that Piccolo was too weak to regenerate.
I always wondered whatever happened to the timeline Cell came from. Poor Bulma, even her only son has died. She's all alone with only the surviving human population.
That can also explain why Beerus and Whis oppose time travel. Creating new timelines is like Jenga. Taking away the foundation and adding new layers will only cause the whole thing to collapse.
yeah will whis and beerus can f off trunks did time travel to safe lfie there is noting worng with safeng lfies not triyng to safe lifes wodo make you in evil pcie shit like beerus noting olapes lame
And *I* always wondered why they had to create a whole new timeline to send Trunks and Mai to, instead of just sending them to the preexisting Cell timeline.
Unless both Toriyama AND Toei forgot about that timeline. Even though they love to dip back into the past to milk nostalgia.
@@najadamu2724 You mean the timeline in which No. 17 and No. 18 were defeated and Cell is still in Gero's lab?
@@Ms.FortuneTeller not it’s the one where 17-18 were defeated and cell killed Trunks to go back into our timeline.
Funnily enough, we know that Trunks’ androids aren’t as strong as our androids. So we can maybe conclude that that cell wouldn’t be as strong as our cell. But the cell in our timeline isn’t our cell, it’s cell from another universe. Our cell got destroyed with Geros lab. We already know that base cell was around as powerful (without feeding) as Android 17 of our universe so I’m just wondering how powerful (if our cell would have been more powerful) would our cell be ya know? Would SSJ2 even cut it
@@hotnessgaming1396 I'm not sure that the future Androids were weaker.
IIRC in one of the versions (I think it's a Trunks chapter in the manga or something, I can't recall), 17 told Gohan that they were holding back the entire time (they were at half power at most), right before they killed him.
Trunks didn't know this detail. Also, he can't sense their power.
So it's probably less that the present Androids were stronger and more that they didn't hold back as much from the start, since the Z-Fighters were stronger and more prepared (still weaker than the Androids overall).
About the " Don't tell my parents or I may never exist" thing. I believe he didn't know any better because it was his first Timetravel, not his third, where he explains everything, and Multiverse theory was to him a theory and nothing else
Also even if he did know, maybe he still wants Bulma and Vegeta to get together regardless.
And just for plot, literally just for the sake of the plot Trunks is obligatory son of Bulma and Vegeta.
@@il3fortunato664 This doesn't make sense to me. Why is Trunks being their son obligatory? What about them being related makes it "for the plot?" I'd get it if Trunks were future Gohan in disguise or something but it's honestly something I didn't expect first reading it.
@@drumo2273
Because Vegeta was the only Saiyan on Earth at that time and Bulma was the only woman that was important at the time, you're saying "but she was dating Yamcha and was her boyfriend" and I say yes you're right. Toriyama just make Yamcha a clown, completely ruining the character and being unlikable so that Bulma can merry Vegeta that was the man that was living on Earth and adapting to live as a human being also the only Pure Saiyan Warrior stronger in the group. That make Trunks their son for sake of plot, nothing else.
@@il3fortunato664 I get what you mean now, and I do agree that Yamcha was clowned for no good reason. Still I think using "obligatory" and "for the plot" makes Trunks' existence sound too much like the stars had to align for it to happen. Bulma and Yamcha broke up and she got with Vegeta, that's all there is to it.
They establish in both the Namek and Sayian Sagas that the energy required to regrow limbs can take you out of the fight, to the point where Piccolo would rather fight Raditz with one arm than regrow his. I always headcanoned that Cell was surprised because after draining Piccolo's arm he either loses from the martial arts disadvantage or takes a second to regrow his arm and has his power level drop like a rock. Unfortunately for Cell, Piccolo has recently fused with Kami so regen is much less taxing.
If that isn't enough, Piccolo only regrows his arm once before on Earth and we know the bots didn't make it to Namek. It's very possible Dr. Gero's computer never got data on the technique as it didn't happen during a fight, especially since the flashback panels imply they got Piccolo's DNA during his fight with Nappa, when he didn't regenerate.
That's what I was thinking too. I really think cell's knowledge of what the zfighters can do isn't based on just having their DNA, but it's based on whatever data was able to be collected. That would really help us to understand things like why he was surprised at Piccolo regenerating, why he uses Destructo Disc instead of Friezas death Saucer, etc.
@@SethirothGaming it also explains the multiform technique, because if I recall manga canon correctly, Tien isn't a part of him, and Piccolo only uses that ability in filler.
@@SethirothGaming he did use Friezas death saucers 2 of them vs Goku
How scary would Cell have been with the Fusion combo instead of just Piccolo's DNA?
Regarding the "Trunks afraid of never be born" plot hole, it can be explained with himself not wanting to accidentally stopping his past self to be born in that timeline just because he showed up and reveal earlier than Bulma and Vegeta would fall in love
I like how TFS addressed all these things you mentioned including the multiple timelines and the regeneration part.
(Cell regenerated after being blasted by Goku’s Kamehameha)
Piccolo: I’m pretty sure I can’t do that
Cell: We’ll figure that out later..
Where Semi-Perfect Cell sees Piccolo is still alive: “How durable is he? How durable am I???”
@@nicholaskling2425 “Questions for later”
@@nicholaskling2425 nah, Cell just missed all of his vital organs
"Ok I'm 90% sure I can't do that"
" we'll figure that out later"
Probably because of Friezas cells too though.
Regarding the fact that Imperfect Cell didn't seem to realise that Piccolo would regenerate, due to his imperfect form it's possible the knowledge was missing or forgotten. I mean he grew up in a test tube tank listening to Dr. Gero's prerecorded messages until he outgrew the tank right? Then later regresses back into "larval form", is it possible in some hairbrained way that Cell's knowledge diminished during this regression and regrowth? That would be a really stupid explanation though, I always just assumed that Imperfect Cell was kinda what his name implies - Imperfect, meaning he was not above forgetting critical information when in a situation where he feels he is not threatened in any way (i.e. when Piccolo submits).
I always felt as though Cell himself didn’t even know he had regenerative abilities until he saw Piccolo do it. At that point Piccolo had only regenerated his arm against Raditz so he hadn’t demonstrated the power much for Gero to study it.
Cell certainly showed the ability to pick up techniques insanely quickly. Goku, Vegeta, and Tien have all shown some degree of instant mimicry too.
I think Trunks setting the time machine wrong by 3 years could be a fine tunning issue.
For example say I need to calibrate the Time Machine by using dials. First dial selects a range of 10 years. Next dial further breaks down those 10 years into smaller chunks. Next dial breaks that year down to months and so on.
When Cell arrives he interupts Trunks before he could fully set the time machine. Thus Cell arrives too early.
but he killed that version of Trunks, so why is there another one
@@SuperHns because there is more than one time line that Future Bulma built a time machine?
@@SuperHns there are 4 timelines
@@SuperHns because departure creates a timeline and arrival creates another timeline. There aree multiple timelines now
Trunks always knew that going back in time wasn’t going to change his own timeline. He had always heard how amazing Goku was from his mom, and felt that if he could learn how Goku solved the Androids, he could apply it to his own timeline. Also, he was worried that he would not be born in the abstract sense. That this timeline’s Trunks would not be born and he was worried for a fellow timeline self.
Yeah, no-one ever thinks of this. Why would Trunks NOT want his alternate timeline version to exist?
Well, yes, that’s the rewrite Toriyama used to explain the inconsistencies he was creating, thus creating another inconsistency. But when Trunks first showed up, it’s pretty obvious he is referring to himself, and implying that we’re working with Back to the Future style time travel.
@@damkylan3 You also have to remember this was untest technology for hail marry. It's possible that Bulma doesnt know multiworld theory or if there is one set timeline until the switch is flipped.
If that's the case, it really was one GIANT risk. Can you imagine if he returns to find Bulma no longer existing or disappears altogether himself due to the effects?
You know, I’d like to see toriyama make a one shot on his original plans for the cell saga, I wonder how hed make 19 and 20 the big bosses for the arc
Me too . I just know he’d pull some fusion or transformation out his ass but it would’ve been epic .
I'd rather have that,the cell saga was ass.the android saga was so cool amd edgy .androids were awesome and killers then 16 was let out.eveything was so cool and then went to crap with cell
@YerrBrke well the original plans for 19 and 20 seem to be introduction of 18 and 17 replacing them and what happened to those two.all in all it seems that whatever pair of androids he wanted to end the arc would be with destruction to a massive extent but cell was made which in my opinionnruiend rhe whole android saga
Guess it'll never happen.
The second isn’t a plot hole or an inconsistency.
The first time we see Trunks (this Trunks) is the first time anyone has EVER time traveled. And till someone time travels, no matter what theories someone may have had previously as to what of the 3 most prominent timeline thoughts are, you wouldn’t know for sure till it happened. So when Trunk came back home, and Goku was still dead, but more importantly when Bulma still thinks Goku killed Frieza let’s Trunks know 100% how it works. So when he speaks to Krillin later, it’s not a theoretical anymore, he knows how time travel works.
The biggest is definitely Cell’s head blowing up. There is no explanation for that.
23:07 honestly the dub explanation even though it's not canon it makes sense compared to the manga explanation.
The Android/Cell saga is my favorite arc of the story as well.
If a story introduces time travel, it gets my hyped. Even if there are plotholes, i toss it up to time travel shenanigans
This arc is also the best because a lot of different characters got to play a part this go around it felt like
I love time travel, but it's seldom done well and free of paradoxes. Ironically, Toriyama went with one of the most stable structs, multiple timelines.
I've been making time maps of various franchises and giving logics to how they work. DBZ's is one of the more complex ones. I'd love to see your mappings for this.
1) Definitely. The Instant Transmission thing makes no sense because Bulma was present during that fight, and should have known about IT. Which Goku also went out of his way to demonstrate and explain to them all afterwards.
2) I definitely found Trunks' phrasing weird, but I always interpreted it as him not wanting main timeline's version of himself not to be born. Which is reasonable.
3) This is yet another issue with discovery writing, especially when telling a time travel story. Toriyama got a LOT of grief from his editor, but without that we would have gotten 19 & 20 as the final bosses. Yikes...
4) TotallyNotMark made a video explaining how bad Cell's exposition drop was an a narrative level. I recommend it. Basically the point is that Cell was very creepy and enigmatic, then he just explained everything about himself in the most obtuse monologue ever, destroying any element of mystery and fear factor. And yes, it's also continuity swiss cheese...
Side note, interesting how Cell is the one who creates the main timeline.
5) People should just accept that there are plot holes and move on. Cells regeneration, and knowledge about his regeneration is inconsistent. He even seemingly forgets that Piccolo can do it too.
My plotholes are:
1) Why does Bulma know where Gero's lab is in the main timeline, but not the future? Trunks said that if he knew, he'd be "paying Gero a visit instead of Goku", so how come his Bulma never told him where to find it? TFS Even pokes fun at this one..
2) Why is Future Gohan so weak compared to Main Gohan who had far less time, training, and motivation? After several years of battle, he's weaker than two weaker versions of 17 & 18 who never use more than half their power to fight him, at least in the manga. In the anime, he does considerably better against the both of them despite their infinite energy, but still, his present timeline counterpart would have easily destroyed them after coming out of the chamber. And why didn't Popo tell them about the chamber anyway? Why didn't Goku contact them from other world? Why didn't King Kai contact the Namekians and ask them to make a wish to revive Piccolo and the others? In my opinion, there are many ways the outcome could have been altered and prevented, if everything was written consistently. But every time I mention it, I get a laundry list of excuses and contrivances that basically amount to fans rewriting the story retroactively to make sense if it.
Don’t have the answers to most of these plotholes but I can come up with a good excuse why Future Gohan isn’t that strong, he merely lacked guidance from experienced fighters like Goku or Piccolo so that may be the reasoning why he wasn’t able to tap into any of his potential, he just didn’t have the right mindset compared to his present timeline counterpart.
@@vex8127 But I think having so many more years should make up for the lack of proper training, not to mention, his anger should be much greater than Main timeline Gohan's was, due to the androids laying waste to everything and everyone. Even if he has a few disadvantages compared to his counterpart, there are other factors that should do quite a bit to make up for them. Moreover, the lack of guidance is a plothole in and of itself, given that there was nothing stopping the deceased fighters from contacting Gohan, and giving him some useful pointers. In fact, we know it's possible for the dead to visit the living with permission, and for the living to travel to the Other World. Kami, Fortuneteller Baba, and Goku all do this frequently. Why wasn't Gohan allowed to train in the Other World or in the Time Chamber? It already doesn't make sense for him to be on his own. But he should still be able to somewhat catch up with his counterpart after all that time and training...
The instant trasmission thing may just be that she didnt think of mentioning that specificaly. To be fair, it has been years and it wasnt all that relevant
@@DM-Oz I'm not quite convinced that she told Trunks all the details about how Frieza's invasion, but left out the part where Goku appeared to stop them by teleporting.
And if that were the case, the story still has to tell us why that crucial information was omitted.
I can come up with reason after reason for many of the gaps in the story, but those are just things I told myself retroactively to fix those gaps. That doesn't fix the story - Especially when everyone else comes up with a different explanation - Which is telling...
@@AndrewAce. yeah I never noticed that Bulma never told trunks about I.T but I chalk it up as since toriyama didn't reveal it yet bulma wouldn't have known
I think the trunks not being born was more of him joking around about not being born in the present timeline. I dont think he was thinking it would affect his existence. He knew he didnt want his parents to be weirded out by the fact and would then not have another version of him be born lol
this.
Sure, cell's introduction was a sight to behold, but what if it took place after dark, and you could vaguely spot him underneath a dimly lit streetlight. It really doesn't make much sense that a horror inspired (atleast he gives those vibes) entity wouldn't take advantage of being more nocturnal. It was right there, Toriyama liked making homages to popular movies in his work, so having an alien/predator vibe going on with him would've been seamless.
Shit that's right are there any fights at night other than in GT seems so weird.
6:16 trunks asking goku to not reveal his lineage is not a plot hole because at THAT moment he is unaware of the fact time traveling makes a new timeline. He’s just making a guess and he was wrong.
Cell was already slumbering away, so in a sense there was a Time Distortion.
He simply did not know that it was a multiverse/ branch timeline yet! He only found that out, when he returned to his future, and it was the same or unchanged. From his first jump he went straight to when the androids arrived, meaning he hadn't been back to his future yet!
The real plothole, is how he travels between different timelines!
The arrival of Trunks in the past altered the timeline. This is why things change slightly from the way it was described to Trunks by his mom in the future.
About the plot hole of Cell going back a year before Trunks' original arrival in the past. In Cell's timeline: Future Trunks is prepping his time machine to arrive in the past, ie, setting the date, coordinates etc. He is in the middle of setting the "proper date/coordinates" when Cell ambushes him, he gets distracted by Cell and accidentally pushes the wrong buttons which sets the wrong date before he tries to fight and is killed by Cell. Or when Cell is entering the time machine after the fight he accidentally pushes the wrong button/buttons and alters the preset time. This isn't exactly that farfetched since in Back To The Future 2 during the struggle to get the Sports Almanac from Biff the Doc Brown accidentally hits the time settings on the Delorean which caused his next time jump to 70 years into the past.
a mistake made in one series doesn't mean the same mistake is made in another. That's a faulty leap in logic
Nice yu yu haskusho sound bite at 1:32
Great video, Mike!
My argument about Cell's nucleus in his head is that the reason he survived both the IT Kamehameha and the explosion on King Kai's planet is that the nucleus simply wasn't destroyed.
In the first instance, yes, his head was blown off, but probably the nucleus remained and this is how he was able to regenerate.
Same on King Kai's planet - his whole body was destroyed, but yet thanks to the nucleus surviving, Cell managed to regenerate completely.
Going back to his perfect form without 18 was definitely an asspull, but it still works for me due to the shock factor of him coming back with IT and scaring the shit out of everyone else back on the battlefield!
I think Cell being derived from Insectoid stock, maybe doesn't have all of his brain functions where humans do.
Basically like that guy in OPM. The nucleus probably movies around in his body to protect itself.
also people forget that CELL is an ANDROID
The biggest plot hole is Toriyama's plot convenient memory loss.
I think an easy resolution for Cell's regeneration is by assuming some of the "core cells" he has, actually upgraded into his new "main brain".
Like maybe his composition is a bit modular or homogeneous in that he has braincells all over his body, and his body chose to make a cluster into the new control center.
people forget that he is still an Android /
@@SuperHns It's the "Mega Man problem", I think: Pretty much every character in the Mega Man series is a robot, but it's easy to forget that since they all just look like human beings in armor at first glance.
It's the same with the Androids, not just Cell, but all of them: No matter how organic they appear, they're all just machines created by an old mad scientist. That's why I never really understood how Krillin was able to have a child with 18...
That is because 17 and 18 are humans with tech upgrades while the rest of them are actual robots.
@@DannieRay23 i'm sure that 19 and 20 are modified humans too, while 16 is entirely an android. i think it's said at some point in the anime
The first plot hole - trunks warning not to alert anyone to bulma / vegeta being his parents to avoid risking him not being born - is easy to explain and isn't a plot hole
He explains when he returns to the main timeline that he didn't realise this was how time travel worked (diverting timelines). He thought on his first trip to the past that would change his future, but it didn't. So it makes sense that he would be cautious to avoid preventing his birth, as he didn't know better.
So glad you're uploading again Mike! You were missed!
I wouldn’t be surprised if the first time we see Trunk’s he actually believed he might get paradoxed out of existence it is the first time he time travels but when he returned to his future and nothing changes he goes back again to help them change the past but then he sees that the timeline has changed with 19s head which would mean that due to his future not changing but the past changing would mean that he now has a new perspective on time travel.
Remember how Trunks was too slow to fight Cell when he got buff… and then it’s never mentioned again and later on waaaay buffer characters have no problem out speeding and keeping up with slimmer character? I do. I remember.
I assume it's deeper than just bigger muscles. But how they use their power to do that.
On the other hand, he would have been damned useful during SP Cell and Gohan's beam duel. What matters speed when you're not moving?
@@DanielMWJ Nah, it’s just another ill planned excuse to wait for Goku some more. Remember when Nappa was faster than all the Z Fighters except for Goku despite being way larger than them? I remember.
What about Fat Buu’s speed feats? Broly?
@@VidelxSpopovich I meant for Watsonian reasoning, not Doylist. :p
Doylist reasoning can get rather cringeful in Dragonball with how transparently it shows the author's hand.
As for the others' speed? Different transformations. As I said, the only sensible conclusion is that grade 3 bulked up in a way that lowered agility and speed in exchange for more power and strength. Not because bulking up like that alone does so beyond the obvious physical impediment, but with how the ki was being used in that transformation.
It's possible that Trunks time traveling caused a disrupt in which Goku would've arrived 3 hours EARLIER, but as he didn't need to, he arrived "on time."
That would also mean Frieza arrived 3 hours early as well.
In the original timeline, let's say Frieza arrives at 3pm and Goku teleports there at 3pm and kills him.
Trunks time travels. Frieza now arrives at 12pm, and Goku WOULD'VE teleported but Trunks steps in and kills Frieza. So Goku rides his ship and arrives at 3pm.
Thus, Goku arrives at 3pm in both timelines.
It’s also possible turnks doesn’t understand how time travel works so him worrying about not being born is just him still thinking what he does in the past effects the future. He only learns nothing changes when he goes back after meeting goku
Cell not thinking Piccolo was able to regrow the arm, does he know he's fused with Kami before that? either way it could be his misjudging the amount of damage he's done and thinking he can't win even if he does regenerate at that point because it takes more power to do that and then Cell will beat him with his remaining power
How strong would Cell have been if he had that fusion Combo instead of just Piccolo?
Piccolo vs android 17 was my highlight of that arc. Too bad cell ended it prematurely!
I wish 17 was part of the main cast. ☹
You could explain trunks being confused about how time travel works, saying it's because he is traveling in time for the first time, and he expected to save goku and get to a better future, but then he didn't
It actually makes more sense to think Cell didn't know about Piccolo's regeneration... which is very possible. He knows Piccolo's techniques but it isnt like he was taught everything about the namekians lol that would also explain why he didnt just 'rip his limps off when going in the time machine'.
Piccolo was observed at the 23rd Budokai regenerating.
Trunks intervening against Frieza is retroactively explained by Cell. There really was a time discrepancy there because Cell had already time traveled to the main timeline a year prior. We never saw how the initial confrontation with Frieza and Cold happened in the other timelines, maybe things went as planned.
Goku used instant transmission to get there in time
It's assumed that Goku came to earth and killed off Freiza and King cold, in the original timeline.
@@JRich_TheNupe And there is no way to actually know that Bulma was aware of it
Gohan will always be the best character in this franchise he's arguably the soul reason the show is popular in the first place because so many kids related to him including myself!
Actually, for the regeneration part, there's a way it can be argued that I haven't seen many mention, or rather not explained in this manner much. The Frieza race can stay alive under almost any conditions. Frieza was blown almost entirely to bits on namek. Couple that with namekian regeneration, and it'd make sense how Cell is very hard to put down.
Trunks didn't know that time travel worked like that until he comes back and sees the wrong Androids. That's when he realizes it. So when he first talks to Goku, his line about "never being born" was just his assumption, since he literally didn't really know.
I don't see the Trunks not wanting to be born thing as a plot hole. He simply didn't want the current timeline of himself to be put in danger
That's what I was thinking too,
However, the way he says it seems to imply otherwise.
And above all, he wasn't truly aware of how time travelling worked at first, so him thinking he could vanish in a poof of logic would be consistent with his knowledge at the time.
I kind of wish we knew how original trunks beat the androids, and cell going back cause the main timeline right?
Hyperbolic Time Chamber? Krillin's Button?
@@ultraexcalibur1728 he definitely didn't go in the chamber if imperfect cell even before drinking people was able to kill him, and you mean the shut Down device Bulma made? Thoses are only theories
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD can you please explain to me with proper English cause I genuinely have no idea what the point you're trying to make is here.
@@ultraexcalibur1728 I said he trunks definitely didn't go into the chamber if the weakest version of imperfect cell was able to kill him, are we clear.
@@XZAVIER-DAA-GOD It was a sneak attack and Trunks was off guard and in his Base Form.
Cell didn't know about Piccolo fusing. Just like the Dr. didn't know what happened on Namek.
1. Trunks was the issue here. Goku outright stated himself that he was about to come down there but Didn't because he sensed trunks.
2. This is explained as well. When trunks came back the 1st time he thought it would change his future. By the time he came back the 2nd time he had known from having gone back to his future originally that everything he did like giving goku the medicine didn't actually change his time. Which is why he knew later on that time travel didn't help his own time line.
3. The cast wouldn't have been there at the time, and it's very easy to suggest that 17 and 18 would have killed 19 and 20 before they met the Z fighters..
Why didn't Cell just murk Tien instantly to chase 18? Why was the heart virus not a bigger part of the arc, at least in the background, making it less random? How come Trunks couldn't notice he was slower? Why wasn't the Time Chamber tried out again earlier than this saga? Why would Gero make the shutdown device an easily swipable remote instead of it being an implant? Why is Gohan harder to anger, when Buu saga Gohan , a more mature version, was more susceptible to rage spouts?
You're not boring I think you're rather informative
Cell Saga: I have many plot holes.
Goku Black: Hold my beer….
To be fair with Trunks saying he might not be born, in that conversation he probably doesn't know that any changes will result in a seperate timeline at that point. So it would make sense for him to be worried about that.
Cell’s conversation with Piccolo was always a huge red flag for me when I finally understood what he was saying. But correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t Super acknowledge the existence of further branched timelines with the 5 time rings? I thought that implied there was a further branched timeline which made the Future Trunks’ Cell referred to from his timeline possible.
You say that like he's the only one to have ever traveled through time. But yeah, there are at least 4 Trunks has made: Future Cell, Past Android Saga Only, Future Trunks, and Past Main timelines.
It could be possible cell was not totally used to all his powers when he went to the past. He had only trunks in the way. Any real threat was in the past for him to understand how far he can Regen with piccolos cells.
Also if he has friezaa DNA he might have superior Regen hacks but yeah it's a bit of a long shot. Good video I loved imperfect cell the most cunning hideous scary.
22:39 when i was a kid i always thought Cell had like a mutated corrupted version of Piccolo's regeneration, like Gero took Namekian's ability to regenerate and turned it up to 11 and made it unnatural and monstrous through technology. But only recently, with video analysis like this one, i learned this was never the case and it's actually a retcon that made it so Piccolo was supposed to have been able to do that all along which doesn't make any sense whatsoever
Piccolo notably gets much weaker when he does it, so unlike Cell, there's probably percentage of his power it takes to regenerate certain things until he recouperates.
There’s also the plot hole where Gero a human on earth can make normal people androids stronger than a super saiyan yet they couldn’t make mecha frieza stronger than super Trunks with space technology. In fact just the idea that he can make androids stronger than Frieza is ridiculous. He was feared throughout the universe
Proves nothing. Bulma made a time machine, she also created an extremely advanced radar when Frieza's scientists couldn't, her father invented a miniaturization technology unseen anywhere else in the universe, he also created a much more sophisticated space ship than the attack balls used by the Frieza force, which was not only fast but also much larger and more resistant as Goku could train in it, with built-in gravity manipulation technology. There is nothing ridiculous here given the long track record of achievements. Humans are definitely on the upper echelon when it comes to intelligence, and they always were.
That isn't really a plot hole. Who's to say Gero isn't just incredibly brilliant.
@@ak47dragunov he was an average fighter, but a brilliant scientist
@@NaughtiusMaximmus Radditz: hmmmm
There’s a way to explain that. 1) the frieza force scientists stand on the shoulders of giants but aren’t giants themselves. Meaning their civilization has a big head start compared to earth but the current generation of scientists aren’t geniuses. Which would make sense since we know rebellion against frieza is pretty common even though most of them stand no chance of success. So who’s to say the scientists that do have the intellect to reach that level aren’t in hiding, because they fear frieza might want snip flower in the bud like with the saiyans. 2) Gero was able to get samples from frieza and cold without anyone noticing it. He could’ve done the same with frieza’s technology, tech that boosted frieza’s power btw. And use that to improve upon the androids. Also gero wasn’t working alone he had a super computer that work 24/7 to make the perfect killing machines. That would greatly boost the process of his work compared to frieza scientists who aren’t working obsessively to kill planet destroying beings.
Yeah, cant really overthink about the details of this arc.
About the "Trunks didn't know about Instint transmission" thing.
Maby future, Bulma lied to him so that Trunks could kill Frieza and earn
Gokus trust
I choose to imagine Cell just is just making things up to justify himself because he'd feel embarrassed otherwise.
I think this arc tore open so many plot holes that would only be matched by Super when it came out.
Matched and surpassed by the Buu saga. Literally the entire story after Vegeta's atonement was so badly done it might as well have been just one giant plot hole
So glad to see you making content again Mike. You always been one of my favorite DragonBall content creators. And I appreciate any videos you put out. Also caught the Super Hero stream congrats on the weight loss man. Keep up the good work!
That last one's explanation is easy enough, that cell just doesn't know exactly how his own regeneration works.
Based on Cell's own explanation about the nucleus being in his head, he should have died by Goku's hand. Don't get me wrong, love the Gohan stuff. He was a bad ass. Still. Out of all the plot holes, that is the one that I still have an issue with to this day, lol. Toriyama is notorious for forgetting his own rules, really bro? That mistake was so egregious.
Good to see you back doing videos. This was really interesting to watch. Wouldn't mind you doing something similar to this with the other arcs. The changes between anime and manga are also very interesting, makes me wonder what else they changed in the story
This video is a case study in how the term "plot hole" is a lot more limited than people think.
A "plot hole" is, very broadly, when the things that we see don't seem to be possible based on the things we've seen before. It's when a character knows another characters name without having ever heard it, or someone manages to cover vast distances in little time with no mode of transportation, or a character uses an item that we know they had no way to get (lockpicking a door with a paperclip after they were locked naked in an empty room with no prep time), that sort of thing. It's not just when we, the audience, haven't been told how something happened... it's when what we *have* been told seems to suggest a thing *couldn't* have happened, and yet it did. With that in mind:
"Why did Trunks show up and kill Frieza and King Cold, when he should have known Goku would teleport there and kill them?"
This isn't a plot hole, it's just an unanswered question; the two are not synonymous. We might *think* that Trunks probably would have been told that Goku could teleport... But we don't actually have any evidence of that. Keep in mind that Trunks would have just been a baby when Goku died, and spent his entire life dealing with Androids. By the time he would've been old enough to be told any details about the past, the focus is definitely on day-to-day survival and trying to figure a way to deal with the Androids... Not to mention that there's only Bulma left who knows about it. Like, sure, it's a *little* weird that she didn't specifiy that Goku was going to teleport there to fight Frieza, but hell, maybe she just forgot, it's been a traumatic decade or two. Not a plot hole.
"Why was Trunks worried that if Bulma heard he was her future son, it might prevent her birth, even though he later shows that he clearly knows he's in a separate timeline?"
Like you say, he could just be talking about prime timeline Trunks being born. That aside; Trunks is a hot-headed Saiyan, they're pretty prone to jumping into action without actually thinking things through. It wouldn't be too weird for him to *academically* know that "fixing" a separate timeline won't actually help his own, but still want to try on the basis of "I have to do *something* ", and likewise act as though this is his past. In fact, I haven't read the manga, but the page you showed seemed to show him coming to the realisation that his trip was kinda pointless, with Yamcha literally asking the question. I wonder what his answer was on the next page? Anyway, bad character decisions are not plot holes.
"Why were 17 & 18, and then Cell, the villains, when Trunks said 19 & 20 were the issue?"
I think a lot here depends on who Trunks winds up fighting when he goes back at the end of the saga in the manga. If he goes back and we see it was 17 & 18 that were wreaking havoc then, yeah, that's seems like a plot hole, plain and simple.
"Why did Cell talk about potentially taking Trunks' cells, when he couldn't have done that in his original timeline?"
The Fandom wiki claims another Future Trunks from a different timeline did kill Frieza/Cold, but that seems to be something they've just inferred based on Cell saying they could've added Trunks cells, so a bit of circular logic there. That aside, even if there was no Future Trunks in Cell's original timeline to take Cells from... there was still regular ol' Trunks, who lived his entire life until time travelling before Cell emerged. So there was definitely opportunity for them to use *a* Trunks' cells, even if not during that specific event. So this isn't a plot hole... but more by accident than planning, they clearly were implying the cells were taken from the Trunks who killed Frieza/Cold.
"Why was Trunks' time machine set to go back to before he originally appeared when Cell used it, instead of after?"
Weird, but unless Trunks at some point said "this time machine can't be set before this point" or "I'll come back a year from now, have on, let me set the return co-ordinates, can someone hand me a calendar?" or something, then... like, this is *weird,* but just an unanswered question.
You bring up the idea that maybe he wanted to go back and make a better timeline and then dismiss it, but maybe he learnt about Cell, and was planning to go back again and take that into account on his next attempt? Maybe Bulmer re-programmed it for some reason we're not aware of? Maybe Cell didn't check the owners manual and hit the wrong controls, or accidentally brushed the "-1 year" button a few times with his tail without noticing? Like, this is clearly explainable, even if we haven't been given the explanation. Remember; a plot hole isn't just "something we haven't been told", it's "something that contradicts what we have been told", and this doesn't actually contradict anything. Not a plot hole.
(If there is a plot hole here, it's Piccolo floating his nonsensical "he probably wanted to travel to our past to tell us about his victory" theory. Come on, KP, you're the smartest guy around, you have to know that doesn't make sense!)
"How does Cell not know Piccolo can regrow his arm when he has his cells?"
You share 60 percent of your DNA with a banana. Do you know everything a banana tree can do? If someone told you the how it creates its bark, how some internal chemical is synthesized, how it responds to different types of soil, would you be like "uhh, yeah, I know, I have loads of banana DNA already, duh"? Are you even fully aware of everything your *own* body does? Like, sure, you just inherently know some thing your body can do... no-one had to teach you how to breathe... But there are other things your body is capable of that it either does without your awareness, or you need to learn you can do before you can do it (like, I dunno, someone first realising they have double-jointed elbows). Not a plot hole.
"How did Cell regenerate from the Kamehameha that vaporised his head, when later he says that his regeneration relies on a mass in his head?"
I'm... torn on this one. Like, as you said, there *is* a pretty simple explanation (that the mass is *currently* in his head when he says that, but he can move it anywhere in his body, and it just wasn't in his head the first time around)... But there's nothing in the story to actually support that, and it doesn't seem to be the intent. Yeah, OK, plot hole.
So, 2/7 of these "plot holes" were plot holes. Actually not bad, in 2023 terms, when the term is so misused!
I like the headcannon of Cell being made with the absolute worst combination possible of Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza's headspace.
The absolute idiocy of Goku, the confidence of Vegeta, and the malicious and pathological lying of Frieza.
This man(bug?) has no idea what the hell is going on, but is utterly convinced he knows, and is gleefully willing to fill in the gaps and just lie to everyone on the side.
He hit the peak of Dunning Kruger, and then remembered he could fly, so kept going.
The fact that Inperfect Cell was able to sneak upon Trunks and kill him without Trunks sensing him.
did you lose weight?
Yeah, around 100 lbs.
@@LSMMIKE Awesome, dude, you look great!
@@LSMMIKE how long did that take you?
7:53
Third idea: Trunks just actually doesn't know what he's talking about. Remember: This is the first time he's time travelled. The first time that we know of that his time machine was ever activated. WHY WOULD HE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN BETWEEN TIMELINES?
He just realizes what would happen later because he's already seen the effects (or lack of effects) first-hand
From the start i liked the vid but when I saw "King cold wasted potential" link appear and he didnt stop to say "check out my other dadadada" I knew I was in for a solid 30 minutes of good content
Loved the video Laughingstock! I love when u point out stuff in db like plot holes or u talking about your theories!
I like the abridged version of Trunk’s explanation on time travel . “More than I thought, less than I should”
For the last plot hole…we can’t see if a microscopic piece of his core remained because it was microscopic but you can’t say it wasn’t there because cell still indeed regenerated
Love your videos bro. They really give more insight and a different perspective on these type of topics
I usually think of most inconsistencies that involve dialogue explanations as having some easily likely explanations in-world:
1) The character saying the thing is just wrong, and doesn't necessarily realize it. Perhaps they are confused, distracted, or just misinformed to begin with. Characters don't always have perfect information, perfect recall, or perfect reasoning.
2) The character saying the thing is actively lying about it. There is no reason to expect, for example, a villain to be entirely honest about exactly how his powers work, what his weaknesses are, what his origin is, etc. Some people might think they have to lie about the information for some good reason, and they might be right or they might not be. They might just be making something up so that they don't sound dumb for not knowing something that they think they should seem knowledgeable about.
3) The character saying the thing is telling the truth, but is speaking vaguely or is being misunderstood. This is less common, but it does happen, and can be very annoying, since it will often be the center of interpretive arguments over 'how vague is it really?'
4) Any combination of the above - there's no reason that a single statement couldn't end up falling prey to any or all of these effects, or others, either in various parts, or together.
Ultimately, it boils down to a simple thing - Just because a character says something expositive, doesn't mean they're speaking the literal complete truth about something they know complete information about. Just like in real life, as annoying as that often is.
Attack of the Unreliable Narrator Returns!
U can fill 2 or 3 by saying cell originally didn't know he could regenerate until he goes to the past
1) As others have mentioned, Trunks not knowing all the rules yet during his first-ever time travel isn't necessarily a plot hole.
2) Everyone assumes Trunks is worried about getting grandfather paradox'd out of existence, but I think it's equally likely that he just *wanted* himself to still be born in the past, to have a version of him who got to grow up in a safe world.
About the "Trunks' cells" plothole: Cell was probably referring to his creation process in his own timeline, but didn't explain it too much and the background images of Freeza and King Cold being killed (in "our" timeline) by Trunks added to the confusion.
What *I think* he meant was that his computer got cells from both Freeza and King Cold when they came to Earth and the research progressed. Time passes, the androids appear, the Z Warriors almost all die, etc., etc. Gohan steps in as Earth's champion and starts training Trunks, who eventually becomes a powerful warrior in his own right. The computer was spying all of that, but decided to not take his cells, since Saiyan samples were more than enough, by then, and that timeline's Trunks never showed any special feats.
Of course, I'm probably putting way too much thought in this. 🤣🤣🤣
sounds about right. Goku was the one who killed Mecha freiza and his father in Cell's timeline, so maybe Cell meant to say that the PC didnt get a chance to capture Trunks' cells, before Cell was complete.
He probably wanted this version of the timeline to have him.
Too bad my man Yamcha was saddled retroactively with a new character flaw to justify him and Bulma breaking up. Like her general lack of commitment and flightiness wasn't enough and maybe she just needed a guy who was a bit less nice.
The best head canon i've read about the timing of Cell's arrival to the main timeline is that Trunks defeated 17 and 18 with the shutdown device but his Saiyan pride made him want to go back to prevent himself from taking the easy way out.
8:20 the best argument for that is he said that before he even knew the effects of time travel
It was Trunks' first experience with time travel, in fact, it was because he and Bulma hoping that the Androids being defeated in the past would change their present. That is why he was worried about making sure that the truth is secret.
Trunks doesn't know how time travel work yet at that point in the series, he doesn't realise it creates a new timeline until he goes back to the future
Not to mention, if Goku teleports as planned, he doesn't arrive in the ship. The ship just shows later, probably. Even if we assume Goku has a longer kill time because he dicks around, it seems unlikely they would even be there hours later for Bulma to know when. That's a very obscure detail to remember.
Let's say Bulma has the data. Fine. Why would she even mention it if he never arrived in the ship. It implies she told Trunks he arrived in the ship for Trunks to have the info. If not a plot hole, it's negligence on Bulma. Either she just didn't tell him, or she somehow just assumed he arrived on a spacepod he never came in that she never saw him leave out of.
I mean, that first "plot hole" isn't really a plot hole. Bulma even in this timeline was not close enough. She likely wouldn't have seen Goku teleport, and maybe Goku might have told her afterwards, but memories are fickle. Bulma could easily have forgotten that detail.
So that's more of a nitpick.
And Trunks not really knowing how time travel works also isn't a plot hole. This is the first time anyone's time traveled in the timeline we've witnessed in the story. Of course he wouldn't know how it works until he returned to his timeline and seen that nothing changed from his interference. His conversation with the others in the ship with the passed out Goku happened after he came back for the second time.
The cluster of cells might be so small that when Goku destroyed the head it might be still floating around. I mean, it's cells, so very small
Trunks realized that his future will be unaffected by time travel
“You want an old man and a fat bastard to be the main villains change it” 🤣🤣🤣
I like to think trunks just asked his mom to fully explain time travel to him after he came back from killing freeza
Toriyama fr wrote a time travel arc off the top of his head with no planning and still made it work, that's why he's the goat
1) The fact that Trunks knew the exact time and place Goku's ship landed implies that his future self didn't use Instant Transmission to stop Future Frieza and instead just landed on Earth normally for some reason, otherwise it'd be pretty random for Future Bulma to record when/where Future Goku's ship landed if he ditched it and teleported to the battlefield anyways. Ultimately, this means Future Bulma likely never learned of the technique
2) How was Trunks and Bulma supposed to know how time travel works when that was literally the first time they did this? Sure they had done the calculations to prove that it could theoretically work but there was no way to actually confirm it until Trunks made the first trip
3) Yeah I got nothing on the Android name drop, kinda just have to suspend disbelief on that like with how they changed Gohan's starting age from 3 to 4
4) You can argue Cell was talking about taking cells from Trunks when he was a baby but choosing not too because they have enough saiyan DNA and because well... he's a baby.
Other than that, yeah this arc got big holes
1) I think Goku mentioned afterwards that he didn’t instant transmission because he sensed Trunks
You're talking about Goku from the main timeline, I'm talking about Future Goku from Trunks' timeline. If Trunks knew when/where Goku's ship would land, that would mean Future Goku didn't use instant transmission to stop Frieza and instead landed on earth normally for some reason
I think trunks was just trying to make sure there is a version of himself that grows up with his parents and family and friends rather than never born
My own personal head cannon for Cell is that he doesn't actually know how his body works, he just does stuff and it works out for him. He's like that guy who wipes out on a skateboard, then pops right up and says, "I meant to do that!"
"Didn't hurt!"
"You should see the other guy!"
"Once I fired a kamehameha THIS big!"
You been slimming down Mike!! Looks like Harold got you on his fitness regimen! Bench pressing the book of infinity & the earth with one pinky! Glad to see it!
I feel like the reason behind at least 90% of these issues is "Toriyama forgot" and the rest are because of his editor.