Learning Irish Traditional Music by Ear
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- I've been putting this one off for years, but I think I've finally managed to cobble together enough coherent thoughts to make a video about learning tunes by ear. Brief discussion on the caveats of learning by sheet music too.
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Learning by ear is a big part of what drew me to Irish music in the first place. I was in orchestra as a teen and was terrible with reading sheet music. At the end of practice, the conductor would give us the next sheet and have us try to play it through by sight reading. I was the B part (harmony) flutist, so the music often did not make much sense on the first reading. One time he stopped in the middle and asked me if I was on the right page since I was so lost. I was embarrassed to tears. When I saw an Irish band at a local St. Patrick's day event, I knew I had to switch.
This guy is really good, lots of interesting information and great playing.
Enjoyed this, every educational, thanks Sean.
I have wrestled with the sheet music vs play by ear learning style, so this was super helpful! Great direction and insight about listening, patterns and tone! Thanks!
Cool, glad to hear it's helped!
That one about the instrument pitch totally makes sense to me! It's exactly what I've been thinking! I don't have the perfect pitch but am able to recognize some whistle tones. Thanks for all the great advices. I discovered your channel just recently and already learned so much!
Cool, glad to hear it!
When I learn a new tune I always use either sheet music or whistle tabs AND a good recording of the tune so that I know how the tune should sound. I get the tune in my head and then use the score or the tabs to learn the tune, and I go back frequently to hearing the tune on the recording to check I am getting it right. I use this method to learn the basic tune, then when I have committed it to memory I start to make it my own by adding the ornaments, changes in pace, phrasing etc. By the time it is at performance standard the sheet music is no longer needed, although I do find it is handy to have the score available to refer to if needed.
I find this to be the most effective way to learn new tunes, but having said that I dont play much Irish music because as you say they all tend to blend into one tune. I prefer to play more contemporary music so perhaps this is why I find my way better for me.
Very good video! Now i kind of know what I´m doing when learning a tune. Often i practice one a while and finally got, but i always asked myself how that happened.
Thanks a lot.
Really love what you’ve been doing with your channel lately. Adore the drone shots and fun edits. Really slick. Great topic too. I’m with you. Ear is great-I find it’s good to have a sound tool that will let you slow down recordings without changing pitch and also let you set playback loops. Anyway, keep up these great videos. The community is lucky to have you.
Thanks a bunch - and good point, I use Audacity to slow stuff down when need be. Works great and it's free!
Awesome video awesome insights :)
Liked how you associate the sound of the notes with a quality name as opposed to just a letter designation. I was always led to believe that playing by ear was a gift as opposed to a learned behavior. I just held on to the sheet music "crutch" and never gave playing by ear a second thought. Now I can see that it's important to know both and apply each skill set where it provides the most value. Thanks for giving me a jump-start on this.
The timbre of the notes definitely help with learning a tune by ear. Notes like hard low D, the cross fingered C natural, high D all jump out to me on the flute. It’s cool to hear that they other notes will come with time!
Totally - that took a while but listening a bunch gets you there!
I had the same feeling at the session last night. It was really hard to pick up the tune when the banjo player was playing. Then the other flute player joined and I knew what to do with my fingers (even without looking at his fingers). So it's not a matter of pitch, maybe more a matter of timber and intonation. Well observed!
Nice to know others hear things the same way!
I had trouble picking up tunes from flute players until I started learning some whistle!
11:20 I play uilleann pipes and this is absolutely true. On a side note, I can read sheet music (I play Horn also) but haven't really done so that much with the pipes. If you gave me some music, I could play it but not that quickly. I have always found learning by ear much easier.
By ear is way faster. I read music but it's limiting and doesn't lead to enhanced ability in melodic variation.
Great lesson, I spend a lot of time, to much time with studio headphones on listening to diferant instruments and the way they sound. And I agree, I always think it's like listening to someone walk up stairs. If you get used to it, you can tell what step they are on. I find it easyer with the Whistle than the Violin, but you can still hear what step it's on. And if you play the E on the A string compared to playing it on the open E sring. You hear it, once your ear is focused on it.
I figured there would be something similar with other instruments - thanks for confirming!
@@whistletutor I'm not a Guitar player, but I know it's like the Violin, you can play the same note in several places on the fretboard. I have seen people, that once there ear was focused in, they would just know witch string and witch fret someone was using to play that note, or chord. And, 'I would think' that it's just easier on instruments that have just oneway of making that note, like a whislte.
I've been playing by ear (and selftaughted also) since i was a child, and in my case i find equaly easy (or difficult) to learn a melody that comes from a another flute, or a whistle or a filddle etc, it makes no difference at all.... and I think its because what i learn is the "melody" itself to the point i can whistle or hum it, and, at that point, i can replicate that melody it in a low/tin whistle in any key,and, in my case at least, i see no difference in memorizing a song that is been played in a flute or in any other instrument.
You all probably dont care at all but does anybody know a trick to get back into an instagram account..?
I stupidly lost my login password. I would love any tips you can offer me
@Trent Crosby Instablaster :)
@Tyler Angelo Thanks for your reply. I found the site through google and I'm trying it out atm.
Seems to take a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Tyler Angelo it did the trick and I now got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thanks so much, you really help me out !
@Trent Crosby Glad I could help :D
Looking fit in this video brother, next up a video on how we can get in shape!
Hahah cheers, though I definitely got the covid 20 this past year :)
At 6:30 : You can name it as a "pump of music note" :)
I've just subscribed to your channel because you teach in a very balanced style. I'd like to know if you have an upcoming seisiun in the lower NY/NJ area. I've been playing tin whistle and flute most of my life however I've had a long hiatus of sorts (too much to write) that loosened my chops a bit. Thanks a bunch for the added effort in production level btdubbs🤘🏻. I'll be passing the torch to my nieces if they're into it (hopefully)...so your channel will be a "GO TO" for myself and for them.
Aww nice, and thanks for the kind words! There's loads of great music in NYC/NJ, I don't think the link will work here but if you Google "ceol agus rince calendar" you'll find pretty much everything trad-related that's going on in the area. I'm hoping to get back there soon, but don't have anything on the books yet - I miss it!
If I hear a flute or whistle on a recording, I can envision the fingers on the instrument and feel it in my finger tips. After listening to it just a few times, I can learn a good part of any tune without even picking up the flute or whistle.
Thanks, Sean! I've been playing for just a little while, and learned a bunch of tunes from your channel! For me, I sometimes get confused on how to start a tune, but there is always a hook, some phrase that I identify the tune by and then I can roll through it. Is this what is happening at a session when you see someone start playing, and others start nodding and joining in after a bit?
Great question - and sometimes that's exactly what's happening while other times it's done intentionally, to allow whoever started the tune a chance to play it their way, while also creating a natural crescendo as the tune repeats.
I think maybe what you call instrument pitch is technically called color. I had just noticed that I can't begin a tune just anywhere even on a chromatic instrument, where all the notes are present and playable, because that key just doesn't FEEL right--too mournful or too cheerful or too delicate or too bold--the wrongness of the feeling is evident on the first note! When I remarked on this weirdness to a friend, she agreed, and gave me the word "color" for it. Translating from one instrument to another, for me, depends on the tune and the instruments; sometimes it just happens, sometimes I need to hear it on another instrument as well, so that I have two sources that can combine into one in my fingers. I was going to say "brain," but really my fingers hear faster than my brain does--another good argument for learning by ear.
I've been watching lots of music lessons, and I appreciate how consistent and succinct yours are.
If you are starting out and do not know how to play the flute, you need sheet music, basic stuff. I cannot learn stuff by ear as its too hard. I just do not know where to start. I will say learning by ear is better in some ways as you can develop your hearing to such a point you pick up the tune. In the long run its better to learn by ear after knowing how to read music. I play piano and for a long time i did not listen to the recording of the tunes i was playing. So one day i did and it was spot on, so in this regard my music reading skills and playing from them was ok, but not my music memory. I have the same problem wtih gutair playing as well.
Hello sean I am somewhat new to playing. I started off on tabs but now I really wanna develop the ear for it. I am having problems with your videos because it is hard for me to discern notes by ear ,& the fingers playing the notes. Should I ignore your hands moving? Also hard for me to tell when you are doing the note or there is an added ornament thrown in. Any suggestions?
Could you speak out the notes you played after the video or in the drop down?
Thank you, very interesting. My daughter (13) has just been accepted into the (Scottish) National Centre of Excellence for Traditional Music and she has never learnt to play her fiddle by anything other than by ear, this has encouraged me to leave the sheet music aside. If it took you years to learn from listening to other instruments; how did you manage at sessions? As I feel the best way to exercise ‘that’ part of my bra8n is to play with other people 😉
Great question - at sessions I would typically record the tunes and then find one or two that I liked and then learn them by ear from the recordings. It wasn't until much later (probably 15 years) that I could learn a tune while it was playing at a session that I had never heard/played before.
@@whistletutor Firstly, thanks for your prompt response and secondly, sorry to keep on, but before you knew the tunes did you just sit, listen and record or did you try to 'fit in'? Go well.
@@j.a.robinschimneyservices112 No I spent the first year or two just listening and recording - the session players would ask me for a set of tunes and I'd blast away with whatever I knew, then I'd sit an listen for the rest of the time.
@@whistletutor p ooo pmpppooooooopppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
I've been learning by ear unless I can find the tabs. The tabs are good but then I have to remember by playing over and over again.
By ear I'll pick it faster, like said get first note first.
But strange as it sounds I've started in the chorus of a song and the got to the front of it. Strange I know. I've even start out to learn a song and then before I learned that song it turn into a totally different song. That's my A.D.D kicking in.
What kind of flute are you using in this video? You have 2 makers listed, but I don't know enough about wooden flutes to be able to distinguish between them.
You talk... as fast as you play! Can you slow it down? Lol Great lesson all the same mate :)
That repeating bass figure is kind of like an Alberti bass
1:17 did he say strap in or strap on
C# is mustard!
While I don’t have any strong associations with particular notes, I find it very much easier to learn from another flute player. Now that I regularly practice with an accordion player, I’m getting better and better at recognizing the notes on that instrument as well. It is still almost impossible for me to learn a tune off of a fiddle or a banjo recording... I guess it’s all a matter of practice
Yeah definitely - it took me a long time (years) to get to the point where I could do ok learning from other instruments.
Sean! Stop and think! Weight lifting?! What if one of the weights drops on your musical fingers? Or you over stress some arm muscles? Eating and sleeping is the better regimen.
You have a point. I'm just learning to play and I have a broken finger my pointer finger. Broke when I was a kid. Long story,but I can't let my broken finger stop me from learning the tin whistle.
Eat, sleep, shit and play the whistle.
What else is there.
@@Nabium at the moment
I've noticed that people who tend to passionately denounce the use of sheet music usually can't read it themselves. It might just be one of those weird coincidences 😉 In any case, just simply knowing how to read treble or bass clef isn't enough to truly understand what the music is doing. You need to be able to recognize the form, chord structure, musical and rhythmic motifs. The sheet music should serve as a guideline, not a means to an end. I think we have the same debate in the guitar community - learning from sheet music vs tablature. A lot of people would say "well, tabs are bad because they don't tell you what the notes are, just where to play them" which is ridiculous. If the tab says 4th fret on the d-string you should know that that's the note F# in standard tuning, there's no mysteries there. Same with learning tunes by ear/sheet music, you're not just learning the fingering but you should really be memorizing the chord structure. In any case, great video and you've brought up some excellent points with the different instrument timbres.
In the case of some people it's a "sour grapes" issue. Can't read sheet music, but it's bunk anyway. However, on the other hand, my grandfather always wished he could read music. He was very talented, he taught himself to play the accordion and accumulated a certain repertoire throughout his life. He had excellent pitch and he was able to replicate some music he heard, like movie themes. But he was a bit frustrated that he couldn't replicate the music written in a stave. He insisted that all of his children learn how to read music. -- I do both classical and folk music, and I play both from memory and by sight reading. I think you shouldn't be too dependent on sheet music, but if you do classical, you have to exercise your sight-reading skills, too.
It would be great to read music the same way you read a book.