Are they worth it? Photography Workshops
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- This is a bit of different style video. Mike 'Keats' Jaskolka (@justkeatingphoto) on the workshop was talking about potential video ideas and suggested... what would people at home be most interested in & what was it that he would have liked to see before joining us in Patagonia? We collectively decided upon... Are Photography Workshops Worth It?
In this video I break down my thoughts on this growing trend in our industry. I'm interested to know your thoughts and if you think a workshop is a valuable experience... please comment below and let's start the discussion there.
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#Patagonia 2019 #photography #patascape2019
Photography Workshops are becoming more and more popular and honestly could be the future of my business. I'm interested to get your thoughts on workshops and why they're beneficial. Most of our group like the social aspect of an often not so social activity. They also like the gear chat and adventure aspect of searching out compositions. As well as the post processing and constant learning of new techniques.
I just went to a photo meetup in Boston for the first time and i learned more in those two hours than I have in my months of self research and shooting alone. They are 100% crucial for keeping the element of person to person interaction and networking. Sharing online is great but handing someone a business card, or even a handshake, says a lot more than just oh here's a link to my stuff, take a scroll through. Not to mention the experiences and new scenery. Cant wait to get on one of these actual workshops.
If you are beginner photographer and afraid to travel on your own : workshop photography is made for you. Workshop are expensive and most of them do not include dinner. I just came back from 20 days in Patagonia (el chalten and Torres Del Paine), it costs me $2500 (flight, rental car, lodging /camping/ refugio included). Not being with a workshop group allowed me to have be understand of where i was going. Enjoy the process of scouting on my own and not being stuck
With a group. I was very mobile and flexible with my time making changes based on weather forecast. Camaraderie? I met people on the field at camping site, hostel,... Patagonia is easy to travel. Lots of regulations in place in each parks. You cant get lost. Landscape Photography is much more appreciated when you are solo or with a small group. I cannot see myself line up my tripod with 20 others guys shooting in the same direction. :)
I agree entirely with all the comments expressed, especially those from your participants which must be the most relevant, considering your own and your colleagues' position as paid tour leaders and instructors. I have been on a number of photo workshops, including to Croatia and Tanzania. I gained an enormous amount from all the tours that I have been on although I have only one point to make. The tour leaders and instructors and their full on participation is absolutely key! As you rightly say, these tours are expensive for average people, who also must pay their air fares and living expenses when not included in the trip. They will inevitably be expensive as the client has to contribute to all of the tour leader's and instructors' expenses and their 'make a living' margins. Some tours, I believe, have lessened in value where the amount of instruction and participation has been minimal and when the 'staff' might give an impression of being paid to travel on their own photographic experiences rather than the job that they are actually on. Now, I must stress that from the videos that I have seen, and I have followed Greg, Tom and Brendan from the beginning of all three's CZcams journeys, they have never appeared to give anything but their best. Moreover, their workshop prices are both competitive and sensible. Essentially, my message is: please consider trying one of these adventures as they are incredible - expensive yes, but the kind of experience that you will only ever be able to do a few times, unless you are very wealthy. So make sure you choose wisely and gain the maximum benefit rather than just funding someone else's photographic lifestyle rather than helping you on yours. Please take these comments as being a positive endorsement of the type of adventure that you have watched via Tom, Brendan and Gregg and perhaps a small indictment of some of their competing photo tour organisers. Best ......
Are they worth it? They are pretty expensive, but if you have some disposable income, then I would say most definitely.
Having just returned from a Patagonia trip led by Greg, Brendan and Tom, I have the following observations:
1.) Pick a trip run by people that are both knowledgeable and personable. You want to come back having learned something and having also had a good time in the process.
2.) It's nice to have an itinerary planned out by someone that has a photographer's needs in mind.
3.) It's fun to be on a trip with like-minded individuals. We've all been on trips to beautiful places with non-photographers and wished that we had the time to take the photos that we really wanted to take.
4.) Don't overlook what you can learn from your fellow participants.
Btw, it looks like the second group got some pretty good color.
Photography Workshops are so worth it. I wish I could still afford to go on them, unfortunately now that I am on a very low income I can't afford to do so, or even upgrade my eleven year old camera. These workshops really lift your spirits and your photography. It is an absolute joy to be in the company of others who are as passionate about photography and beautiful wild locations as you are and to be immersed in the experience all day every day. Also, as a woman travelling alone (and a bit of a wimp about being alone in the wilds, or potentially dangerous places) it means getting to locations that I would otherwise not be able to go to. As your locations have been researched in advance no time is wasted in location scouting either. So all in all I would say that yes, the right photography workshops are wonderful and rewarding experiences that you will value for the rest of your life.
Man, your behind the scenes footage really made me understand how these things work. I thought that it was an exercise for rich people who have nothing better to do, especially considering that about 20% of them seem to be better photographers than ones leading the workshop (apart from Master photographer Heaton). Tomorrow I'll go and buy that lottery ticket.
I find photography workshops are everything mentioned in this video plus as a single woman in some instances it is safer to travel in a group that is all about photography. Travelling in a tour group is ok if it's just to see some places but when your travels are about photography the added expense of a photography workshop is so worth the extra money. Not only do you come away with awesome photos for your portfolio you are also continually learning. 😀😀😀
Working with other photographers in a learning environment is critical. This can be done by workshops or photography clubs. In my club, we have street photographers, those who love HDR, focus stacking, long exposure photography, Astro photography, land scape photography and many other interests. We have most members pushing the line between artists and photographers with their post processing skills. We learn by sharing interests and skills. One important activity is going on photo shoots for one or multiple day adventures. These can be local or international. This assures you “just do it” at all hours vs. thinking about doing it while watching CZcams. So why then attend workshops vs. plan club excursions? The main benefit, at some cost, is to go beyond your own group and expand your perspectives on photography and equipment. Maybe a good balance between club excursions (which are always well planned) and workshops (which are also well planned) is to plan workshops about every 5th trip. New incites are most valuable.
I like the idea of workshops, getting to meet like minded folk, getting to shoot with like minded folk, and getting to meet and shoot and make friends with folk you look up to. My issue is just finances. They ain't cheap, especially when the folk you look up to are big names and they are to far flung places! If i had the money, I'd book! No questions there! Great video though! Bad Mike stealing Chris's line!! P.s already follow majority of this group so seeing all the insta stories makes me really feel i'm missing out in the camaraderie!
Totally agree. Would be good to photograph together in a group as I think it’s the best way to learn. You can only pick up so much from CZcams. But the cost is prohibitive especially with travel costs on top.
@@DebMcP71 always welcome to come out with me Debs!!
Wadger Catcher Sounds like a plan 👍🏼
@@DebMcP71 are you coming to the Ayrshire meet on the 4th?
Wadger Catcher Unfortunately not. I have a hen do on the Saturday 😔
Greg, to me one of the biggest reasons a workshop is worth it is because the leaders have been there before and planned the best spots for the best times. For many people a place like Patagonia is a once in a lifetime trip. Having experienced leaders who know the best time to leave and the best trail to take to ensure you are in the right place at the right time is invaluable. I did a solo photography trip driving through Patagonia last year. It was amazing but so challenging having to plan each step of the way. The technical guidance and camaraderie of the group enhance the experience even further.
I've got a question. How many of the workshop leaders themselves went on photography workshops before they became pro? And if so how many workshops did they go on and with whom?
It would be a dream for me to attend Tom or BVS and your workshops. I watch the videos and I feel sick I can’t be a part of them. But the cost is so great and I have very little holiday time I can’t waste without the wife. Great production as ever.
Great video and topic, Gregg!
Having never been on an official workshop, I can't speak for it's value from personal experience. However, all the points mentioned in this video, like learning from others, having mentors, being in a group that shares the same passion, etc. can all be easily done locally, with just a little networking, for free.
If one really wants to experience an amazing place, they can take a trip and spend some time planning it, from a photography perspective.
So yes, I'm sure there's value in these workshops. But are they really worth the high costs? I'd say, for most people, no.
Great video and subject matter! Wow Greg you have an amazing energy level. Shooting, walking and talking after playing chauffeur and shooting b-roll for the other CZcamsrs. Your video definitely tempted me to pull the trigger to go on a workshop. All you have to do is book a ticket and bring your stuff. The education, camaraderie and adventure look fantastic. Keep up the great work and keep your tuque dry!
I like the idea. I struggle with the value. Basics applied - have to know how to do things with the camera in manual mode. Skills - composition and composition . Experience - networking especially . Awareness - where to go , and how to go there safely and informed on the potential.
First time a have to be local ; so many locations 200 miles from home to do the core work and then a special trip to a special
Destination?
Workshops on those core skills before adding the extra travel would be key
I would be interested in seeing some of the 1 on 1 interaction between the hosts (e.g. Tom) and participants. This includes in the field as well as photo critiques and Lightroom processing.
Yeah that's essentially what it's like on one of the workshops :)
I also would like to see if that is happening. We only get to see that the leaders do their thing. As participant I would consider ME taking pictures should be their primary worrying. So participants first, then if all of them are happy with their pictures, got all questions answered and so on, then the instructor could do their thing. They pay a lot of money for that service.
This is a great topic Greg, glad you brought it up. That all depends on how much money you have to blow. The camaraderie would be great, but not necessary and jockeying for position to get the best shot is not worth it. I would hire one tour guide that lives in the area to take me to places and avoid the crowds of photographers. Lastly, Thomas Heaton is not a Master photographer, but he thinks he is, so that's OK.
one day, i will be a member of the crew in a workshop, for the experience, the fun, the location, the camaraderie and improve my skills (that shouldn't be too hard !), but i'm just a beginner and i need to buy a digital camera, that could help… :D
I have been in workshops and field trips that were fantastic and others that weren’t so great. The best have tended to be smaller groups of 6 or less but I did do one with more than that that was great. The best I took was one in Yellowstone with a person that lived in the area and knew it like the back of his hand. The worst was a large group with big name nationally known leader that was a total waste of time. Too many people and only one person. Did one with a smaller group and the leader was good and took time with all of us. I learned lots till he got sick. By the end of the second day he couldn’t get out of the car he was so sick. So while I was happy with what I learned in the first day and a half but the rest left me feeling cheated. For me also are leaders with a large pack of their own equipment that are taking their own images while the group is left waiting for them to finish their work at our expense.
Great video and gets me pumped up to do one. I have been doing photography workshops since 2004 and have seen a variety of types while growing into a strong segment in the photography industry . I try to do at least one a year, either a week or one to two days depending on financies and schedules. I have seen this industry evolve and under the "workshop" tag which there seems to be really true workshops with instructors really working with the clients and then the other is a more photography tour where people running the group give a few suggestions but focused the locations. I do like the comment you made below about people learning post processing and new techniques at your workshops. I think this is a great industry and the prefect time to be in it. And thanks for the CZcams channel.
If you're leading it, it's always worth it. And my photo made the thumbnail!
As very much an amateur I can see the benefits of workshops but can't see me doing one in the next few years because (1) With 2 kids to put through Uni and working for public sector then hard to justify the cost to my family if they can't have a holiday too & (2) Would feel a bit self-conscious going on workshops where, as BvS said, everyone take great photographs anyway. The other thing I always wonder about is when you see so many videos from workshops how much time are the leaders spending with the participants and how much making videos for their own channels? Personally I'd have liked to see a 'behind the scenes' video showing the life of participants on workshops rather than just professionals and semi-professionals saying why they liked it. I don't mean to seem overly critical but just reflecting that I didn't feel the video really gave me an idea of what to expect which I'd hoped from the title it might.
Done one last year and absolutely was value for money for me personally and currently looking at options for this and next year. As you said great opportunity to learn and share knowledge.
One day I'd love to come along to ur workshops. U get to learn from our favorite youtuber's and I bet it's so much fun 😂 you guys are funny and down to earth. 😁
I would join workshop after workshop if it wasn't a financial matter... My question would be: what were your recommendations for those wanting to start leading their own workshops? How can someone get to the point when none of the participants' questions will result in head scratching? If you think this topic is interesting enough, could you please make a video about it?
I haven't been on one yet, but I think they are totally worth it. It is a great way to gather people with the same passion to learn from one another, exchange ideas, and to explore our world together (and have fun all at the same time). I am really looking forward to the Bali trip in early September! It is going to be so awesome!
I got two adverts in the beginning of your vlog, and they were so good and mesmerising, I thought it was your vlog/ you had shot them! Lol 😆
Great video. Would love to try one of these workshops one day and doing a small one locally soon and really looking forward to it......
My 5 year plan includes going on one of these workshops with you and Brendan! School keeps me from doing or affording much right now! This year will be my first time to Africa but it is for a medical mission so not much in the way of photography.
Workshops are great IF you can afford them. It's not just the cost of the workshop but travel expenses: gas or airline ticket, meals, hotels. I went to two workshops when I was working FT, now retired have to watch my pennies.
From a learning perspective its great. There will most likely always be someone more experienced than you to learn from or who can share different ways of doing things
would love to do a Workshop with you and Brendan, only all your workshops are on the other side of the world. I live in New Zealand, very long way to travel, please come and do a workshop closer to home.
Yes its all about learning Sorry WRONG its about MONEY im a bussniess man and lets do the math GREG you have 10 people at each workshop and there are two workshops thats 20 people at 5000,00 Euros each
that equals 100,000 Euros minus hotels food but not dinners or lunches park passes and car rentals and your measely fee that leaves Heaton and Brendon with about 60,ooo euros
Wow not bad for two weeks work
its all about the money not about the photography
i learned that from out of moab with over 100 participants at 2500 each not bad for 5 days
i still go on workshops becouse you do learn but its only for people that can afford it why dont you ask if brendon or heaton ever had someone less privilaged come to a workshop for free just to learn photography that wont happen i met Thomas and he defenitly is a classs act he is very humble but the workshops are all about the money
So Sorry
BTW ask Brendon for a raise
5K eur?? holy sh.. for that kind of money I can spend 2 months unlimited travelling all over Japan including fine hotels, restaurants, flights, everything. paying 5K for not feeling like a lonely and possibly learn something.. sounds like a group of people that has too much money.
Greg. Do not take me wrong. I value workshop even if they are only for people that can afford it (I cannot). It is tourism at the end of the day. Question is, if I need to get improvement on my photography, do I need to go to an exotic place for it. Why not a workshop just around the corner.
Totally get the value of this - but how do we find those? I follow you and "the master" and both mentioned on your channel that you were going to Patagonia - but (and maybe I missed that) I never saw you or Heaton saying you were running a workshop in Pantagonia. If one day I do a workshop, I want to be able to do it with someone that I like the work and not someone I don't know. Continue the hard work - you are in a fast moving industry and ideas need to fly!
Photography workshops are worth it for the instructors. They together make a revenue of about 100K in 4 weeks (assumption with 20 participants). Obviously there are some costs to be covered and of course the participants will learn something. And I get it - it is convenient to be driven to some epic landmarks at the right time. But you can learn everything on your own. Buy a nice lens and travel to a nice destination and practice. You will learn your lessons over time. I cannot believe that this investment of 5K plus expenses is a "booster" for your photo career that will pay off for yourself in a near future. But no offense here. The instructors and locations are great. I believe when you have the extra money it is quite fun and educative. So a little bit critical from my side but like I said no offense intended.
Good point - there was no mention of the actual cost in this video. Even if you considered the workshop as your annual holiday it would still be an extravagant expense for a week. I see that your photography skills would benefit but a financial cost that I can't justify personally.
Lol actually bumped into you and Thomas Heaton coming down from Laguna Capri!!
Great and interesting video!
@justkeatingphoto is a cool guy! Great video!
Yeah his Instagram feed is Insane!!
I never considered doing a photography workshop for a few reasons..
First, they ain't cheap. But, it also because I don't want to be told what to shoot or how. A lot of the times I see my shots along the route, and I don't want to be holding people back especially if it's a big group. If they were small groups, like 5 people max, then it would be better. But bigger groups seem to be more of a hassle. Everyone has a different style of shooting.
But it's great to go out and shoot with others.
Would I go on one? Most likely not. Unless I find a group that has a very similar shooting style to me, and is doing it in a location that I can afford to go to and want to shoot at.
Would I do my own workshops? I believe so. I don't have a bit social media presence, so probably not anytime soon, but in the future I will
This is a great subject! For me, a big part of workshop value is the leaders having the knowledge of the local area. To be able to access areas and shoot in places that tourists don't know about is a huge plus. I'm always mistrustful of workshops where the leaders haven't been many times before (or are resident). Why would you pay that premium just to be taken to the regular tourist spots?
I was asking myself this question just now when I saw that the bvs workshop to Patagonia sold out in 15 minutes. Patagonia seems an intimidating place to go on your own, so you may think you need a guide, but in fact you don’t. It’s easy. The iconic locations are easy to get to. So why pay for a workshop? Think it’s because a great leader will change your photography and give you an idea of how to get to the next level. I have been on 2 workshops with someone I consider “great” and though they were expensive, I now always hear a voice in my head that that experience awoke. So for me I guess it’s worth it for the “art” (sorry to be pretentious) if not necessarily for the travel guide aspect.
You were never going to say they're a waste of time and money.
Beautiful place lovely
Great video always😇😇😇😇😇.
Great Video Greg
Is the footage of the stream at 0:18 reversed or is it just an odd camera angle that makes it look like the stream is flowing uphill?
Hehe. Good eye. It's reversed 🙂
I don't have the money to go on one.
I think they should be promoted as photography tours, not as workshops. Perhaps, if I did come, you could teach me lots. Or next to nothing. But you can arrange the itinerary, the basic meals, the accommodation. For me, that would be the value that would attract me to the tour. That, and the exchange of ideas with other photographers.
If I went on a Kim Grant workshop, I would rely on her to show me Scottish landscapes and wildlife, not how to use my gear or how to photograph it.
I have to admit that this kind of trip is absolutely scarry for me - I always travel on my own (with my fiancée), I never tried any sort of group trip's. Knowing that someone else planned my day and group want to go quicker while I want to stay (or other way around) it's so hard to imagine for me. And on top of that there is cost. So I pay all of this money and I have nothing to say about what, when and where am I doing.
I can imagine that networking is great if you have your own social media business, I can imagine it's a great learning opportunity, I can imagine that Hi5's with Greg, BvS and TH are making it even more worth it, but I don't feel ready to go for anything like that. I enjoyed participants pictures on Instagram last year is there a #tag this time? Seeing participants images was something that makes me to start thinking about workshops.
I think Brendan's workshops are great value for your money, some companies are much more expensive ( like Tom's trip to Nepal, that is way to expensive compering it to a regular trip to E.B.C , I can go to Antarctica for that money ) The best thing about these trips is that you spend a lot of time at one location, so you can wait for the best conditions to take your photographs. With regular tour companies, this is not the case. The main problem I'm having is that I have fixed holidays and that most trip, are not within the 4 weeks in summer or 2 weeks during Christmas. I can not get 2 weeks off in April to go to Patagonia)
Network Engineer by day, Gigolo by night has helped me finance travel and these workshops...
Love you work and, for the record, yes they are. Nice sales pitch. 🎥📷
I have never been on a photo workshop but I have often considered going on one several times. The one thing that has held me back is that I have no idea how flexible the schedule is. One of the things that the client is paying for is that all the planning and logistics are taken care of by the organizers. What happens, however if you are in a remote location and somebody wants to do some Milky Way photography (as an example) that was not planned? Is an attempt made to accommodate that request (assuming clear, very dark skies) or are the locations and times pre-planned to the point that getting up at 2am one morning just isn't feasible? (I am thinking of say the Milky Way arching over one of the mountains.)
Yeah good point. We're doing Astro on this trip but it's not in the itinerary specifically cause you can't really guarantee it I guess, you can only hope. When it works out we like to make it happen for those who are interested.
@@gregorsnell Thanks. That was the answer that I was hoping for. I am glad to read that if the opportunity presents itself then it might be an option. (I recently did a trip to Death Valley and ran into a photographer one morning who was running a workshop and his group seemed to be benefiting a lot from his guidance and expertise.) During that trip, we had hoped to do some Astro (at Badwater Basin), but the skies opened up & instead, we got 6 months worth of rain in less than 24 hours.
My view is that it might help to be part of a group, when going to places where there is a possible security concern, or you are not sufficiently familiar with the area in question (so you delegate the whole organisation to a 3rd party). Also it might be funner to be in a group as often photography is sort of a solitary hobby. You also might help learn some things from others. Eventually you can also make new friends.
Where I am less attracted by those workshops is (i) you are not master of your own agenda, (ii) cost can be a problem for some, (iii) locations might not align well with your sort of photography style/interest. Note that one can always consider coming back on his/her own once that first experience is in the bag, (iv) everyone shooting almost the same stuff.
Personally I like travelling alone and take risks, meet local people and ask for places they know. If I fail I can only blame myself for it. Eventually the idea is to discover new spots, try not to replicate what others have done sometimes many times (not that there is anything wrong with that from a learning perspective). For me, photography is personal, like art, so workshops aren't my cup of tea.
workshops are good for people who are afraid to travel by their own , so why not , better than not travelling ,
Wait, you got to the bottom of the hike and didn’t go for waffles and ice cream!
I think that workshops are great but they are expensive, even if you do a session in your home country, if I am going to spend a few hundred or even a few thousand on a course then my other half will be saying that we could go somewhere together for the cost of the course and that is hard to argue against.
Worth it? You did not address the costs, airfare, your fees. Tips? What percent%
I imagine just having the transportation and lodging taken care of takes a big load off for many people.
True. This is a big point I forgot to mention.
Bit few vlogs away question but also Patagonia Wow is throw the a7r3 high mp and a6400 size in the mix being a canon guy love results ef adaptors on Sony
The word is camaraderie.
No .. not for people with limited income.
Yes .. For the workshop leaders / organisers who run them because their "real" photography work is limited in sales ans income.
Everyone ends up with basically the same shots, just look at Instagram and see what I mean.
People are far better off using the £1500 / £2500+ to buy a camera and a cheap holiday, and then shoot and learn. For £2500+ can buy a Canon M100 plus 2 lenses (or a 5d mk1 and 2 lenses ), air tickets to New Zealand and have money for the essentials.
Are they worth it? No they are not, if you are teaching people how to use their camera and process their images then yes they are, if you are taking photographers to a known place to take pictures which has been done before with other groups then no, I think people should find their own locations and developed their own style and not somebody else's style. These outings sorry workshops, cost a lot of money and to me they just look like a day out with likeminded people who enjoy photography, and that should not cost a penny!
comerradery XD