Spyderco 10V PM2 vs K390 PM2 and Police, is the hype real or will K390 rise to victory?
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- čas přidán 18. 04. 2020
- Spyderco 10V PM2 vs K390 PM2 and Police 4. Will 10V live up to the hype? Will K390 take the victory? Is one better than the other and does it matter? Follow along and find out. Thank you to Richard, Rolf and Kurt for making this test possible.
Edge retention testing data sheets
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Contact me at gdniel@yahoo.com
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As always I appreciate your time and thanks for watching.
3 years later. I'm still rockin' k390 every day.
Thank you for your efforts! Very interesting results.
Appreciate the thorough testing and collaborative data sets 👍 this is citizen science
I don’t know much about HRC yet but holy crap that K390 can slice some cardboard 😯
Thank you for sharing...
Keep up the great work...
Interesting numbers... nicely done G!
Man this vid 2 years old. Can't believe this is first time i watched it. 2 of the pm2s on top my wish list
Just snagged a brand new 10v dlc from Eric Glesser at the Oregon knife show, so stoked!
Thanks for all the hard work you put in to testing these steels!
Thank you
I'm sure I speak for all of us but thank you for the content you create. Your fast becoming my go to for any of my steel selection 💯
Thank you
Thanks for the video!
Very interesting.. thanks for all the testing.. 👍👍👍👍👍👍
GREAT VIDEO ! THANKS FROM PORTUGAL !
Wow! Makes me super happy to have a brand new k390 pm2 I love that thing!
Thanks for the video.
Thank you G!
I listened to this on my Bluetooth headset, while out shopping today. When I got home, I sat down and watched it. A great job, as usual.
You know, many of us have been eager to see this one done.
: - )
When you get a chance, let us know what you find out for the hardness, on the two PM 2 knives.
If it helps at all?
My PMA11 Mule, is 62.5.
My REC 10V Satin PM 2, is 64.5.
My K390 Mule, is 64.0
My 4V Manix 2 (Fradon Lock), is 65
I never tested my Spyderco K2/10V before selling it.
I have not yet tested my REC DLC 10V PM 2 knife blade.
I'm with Alex Steingraber
, in the comments section. Personally, I like some Tungsten, Cobalt, and Molybdenum in my blades. Contrary to what some have said. Vanadium is not the be-all end-all. I pick K390 over 10V, every day of the week. None the less, 10V, is a great steel. It could have been worse. REC could have chosen M390!
I have to agree I thought 10v and k390 would do way better thanks for doing this test .. 👍
Thanks! 👍👊
You so far are one of the most credible testers I know
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Great test as always. Thank you for the work you put into this test.. I have both of these PM2's and I thought 10v would have won. They will both hold up to a day at work. Thanks again.
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I somehow forgot the login password. I appreciate any tricks you can give me
@Randy Maverick instablaster :)
@Devon Sam Thanks so much for your reply. I found the site thru google and I'm trying it out now.
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@Randy Maverick happy to help =)
very interesting review
G don’t know if I’ve said how much I look forward to your videos, check every day. Love your tests they look very controlled and systematic as scientific as such a thing. can be. Do you cut with or against the ribs of the cardboard. Looks like with.
Thank you and I cut with the grain of the cardboard.
Excellent work as always. I’m still loving my police 4 in k 390. I do not believe I will purchase the 10v versions as your testing confirms the hunch I had, plus I do already have the k390. Maxamet still blows my mind and currently is my personal favorite EDC knife steel: with k390 right behind it.I still need to try Cru Wear as well. Thank you for sharing.
Us knifeaholics are jonsing for s10v…..a supposed super super steel….not at maxamet level but in top 5…..any thoughts?
@@wattsmichaele sounds interesting, but even with the magnacut hype train coming though…I still find my k390 and maxamet in my pockets…oh and still the same edge on my maxamet too, 3 years later😂
Do u mean s110v? Or 10v? There is no s10v?
nice pieces this police is awsome!
I love the pm-2 but wish they would cut about 2 inch or so off of the back end of the handle kind of like a few people did couple years ago to make a pm2 mini but I would leave the blade the same length
I knew more testing would make the hype train stop dead in its tracks 🚂🦂🚃🚨
Thanks for testing. I like yours videos very much. In my opinion is the quality of Böhler steels way better then quality of CPM steels. I would always by M390 over 20CV and K390 over 10V. Even with lower HRC will
Ive heard it both ways. Lot of people dissapointed with Bohler too.
Really good video G!! I have a question what is belt chatter?? I’ve never heard of it?!! Thanks for all the testing and thanks for sharing brother!!!👊👊👊
Just a guess but I believe it's marks or rough edge created at the factory from belts on a machine they sharpen with. I could be totally off though and talking out of my ass.🤣
The best way I can explain it at the moment, is like this
.
When you pluck a guitar string, it vibrates. Sanding belts can do the same thing when sharpening. So when a 'vibrating' sanding belt is run across a knife edge, or it begins to vibrate while passing across the steel edge. It leaves what some of us call 'belt chatter' marks. Which are just tiny waves, on the secondary bevel.
Then, when you hit it with a sharpening *stone* for the first time. The high spots in that 'belt chatter' pattern, stand out more. As the tops of the waves get flattened first.
Steve Kluver thanks for the response It’s much appreciated !!!👊
I gave one of my k390 pm deuces to BJ Hill for edge testing. If I recall he hit 370 feet working edge in his results. Your tests are interchangeable so it's worth mentioning. I have not touched my 10v yet, in fact it's with Kurt currently for hrc testing. The k390 pm2 performs very well for me, but I have a preference of the rex45 over it.
WHY YOU PREFERE REX45 ?
@@scarysurrealplacestimelaps9627 several reasons. I'm able to use Arkansas Stones with zero drawbacks in terms of performance. The hrc numbers are very consistent 66-67 hrc. Holds front edge sharpness a bit longer than most steels. I prefer a 2k edge on my pm2 for my uses and since there is no drawbacks in performance I can put the edge I prefer and receive results that are ideal. The burnt orange scales darken over time so the knife builds character with use not sitting in a box in some closet. These are my preferences and many choose steels like maxamet, cruwear, even k390 over rex45. Really depends on the user and what they look for in their carry blades.
@@steeltoez8345 Great answer !!!
And they marketed it as holds a edge as long as maxamet and as tough as k390
YUS! Glad to see our results align and me not being bias cause I love K390 so much. Haha. Also, I have a theory that steels with less Cr and more Co, W, and Moly just do a better job performance wise due to the nice hardenablity they gain. Deff gonna year this. Nice work man! Let’s throw Maxamet i there next! 👊🏻🤣🍻
I totally am bias 😉 you know I've been preaching for the green boi while everyone was riding that 10v hype train 🦂🚂 I had a feeling the testing would start showing the truth.
Hell yeah man. I know you have. I still think the PM2 K390 was done dirty, but clearly not as bad as I thought. 🤣🤣🤣👊🏻🍻
Is it a trend that Spyderco, and perhaps others, seem to get a little higher hardness out of blades that are a little larger compared to blades that are smaller in the same steel? Maybe they hold the heat a little better so the quench gets them at a more optimal temperature.
No. Japanese k390 is hardened in Japan, and they have perfected it. The 2 smaller are done in Colorado, which seem to always be a little less softer no matter which steel is used.
Can you do a test MAXAMET VS S110V with a super toothy edge? 120 grit !!?
extra coarse edge , how will win ?
My parade has been rained upon!!
Looks to me like Spyderco maybe droppin the ball on quality and hopin hype will carry the load😕
Thanks for all the work you do . Question, looking at Kershaw link in either m390 or 20cv. Which do you prefer? Thanks,harry
Both perform about the same so I'd pick whichever you like better.
The Links are absurdly affordable and excellent in 20CV
What do you do when the edge gets thick from a lot of sharpening? Do you regrind the whole blade?
The compositions are definitely close enough that geometry and heat treat will make the winner, with 10V lasting longer if all things are equal. I went with the K390 because I feel the Bohler pm process is cleaner and more fine grained which should help toughness.
They really must have messed up the ht on the 10v. Or it was severely over heated.
But from everything I've seen people say about the 10v from spyderco. I just believe they really didnt bother optimizing the ht at all. Plus. Running 10v at that hardness doesnt make a bunch of sense to me anyway.
Larrins testing on this wasnt out at the time, but seeing that 10v and k390 at 65 and higher have basically the same level of toughness. And they already run their k390 around that level now days. Seeing them do 10v at 63-64 seems like the wrong move.
All that said. 10v is probably my favorite steel. At this point its the steel i've worked with more than any other. And around 66-66.5 it does great.
Interesting results. I need to test my k390 para 3 again but my 10v did great, close to Maxamet in my testing as far as edge retention goes. Maybe mine was ran a little harder? 🤷♂️
Maybe you can send yours to G and he will then get it tested by Kurt as well as validate your test. 🙂
Possibly. I tested mine yesterday and it was 64.5.
@@84theblong 10v? Was it Satin or DLC?
@@overlandedc It is satin.
Hi!
Since you bring up the PMA11, I was curious, how did its tests go?
Thanks!
I didn't record any of that test, I do have the results in my book though so I may add it to the data sheet.
I had to buy the damn K390 PM2 from Bento Box because I could not wait for the new P4s, very interesting that the 62-3 HRC VS 65-66 come pleasingly at a more similar formidability than your cruwear experimentation, and how much a point or so can make a world of difference in a particular steel. And to see a DLC or PVD coated Ranger Green PM2 in s90v, which looked great, but made me more annoyed that Spyderco tends to neglect coating their damn tool streel releases, or at least an option. I digg a black blade in general, and became an FDE fan courtesy of the mighty Adamas, but I am seeing Cruwear, K390, 3V,4V, V4E, M4, etc blades; not all Spyderco, but so many uncoated while notorioudly corrosion resistant steels are frequently given a protective finish, and doesn't really affect cost/pricing. I understand the preference of uncoated or finished blades regardless of corrosion resistance susceptibility, but some folks live in areas where they will become fossilized in the box. I have to say K390 (PM2, P4 plain and serrated) have really surprised me with how long even a partial spot patina has shown up. I have been carrying tand using he new Adamas and one of the K390 P4s at minimum every day since I bought them. I carry them in belt pouches, though, and I have a neurotic but effective tendency to put a.dessicant packet in my pants pockets.
Don't know if you'll see this, but of you or anybody else could shed some light on CPM-4V or V4E's disparity level in retention, maybe toughness between a 60-61 HRC, and sound 63-64+ HRC.
Also noticed that Dr Larrin always seems to get optimal performance on about anything using 140 grit, which is interesting.
Appreciate you, brother. Would like to see you put that SOG Seal XR to the test! Also maybe a variety of brands' s35vn quality up or a compatrative level. The Seal's S35VN kicked the ass of every cryo XHP SOG i bought by far on edge retention. Also competitors' 154cm, which has continued to blow my mind Outperformed many M380 identical otherwise models and other unjustifiably expensive blades' premium steel models
I also had to get on from Bento Box….very high priced….but its incredible….blessed to have one…:)
@@wattsmichaele Definitely came at a premium, but is pretty awesome to have. K390 is amongst the most impressive recent tool supersteels folks have implemented in blade metallurgy. And as corrosion prone as it seems to be on paper, I haven't really had much of an issue even after a bunch of use without thorough or minimal cleaning or maintenance, let alone babying and vacuum sealing with dessicant packets every time I stow it. I did finally manage to reach that corrosion state on one of the Semi P4 LWs, but that was totally my fault for forgetting that I had put it aside to clean after it got mired in guck until it had sat like that for days. And even so, after a thorough cleaning, there was not rust or pitting, just a patina. A unique, uneven patina pattern that even has the stitching pattern of the pants I had it clipped into blatantly recognizable on portions of the blade. It would probably even look really cool if I'd actually planned it and did it intentionally. A lot of people have intentionally induced a patina on their K390 and that seems to protect it from any further corrosion or staining, and I've seen some cool custom and experimental patina patterns they've pulled off in a variety of methods. I kind of wish they'd drop a DLCed K390 release or exclusive at some point..I read that Spyderco's Sal said they wouldn't be doing a DLC option because K390 would supposedly still be susceptible to corrosion beneath the DLC; which I don't feel would actually be the case, but I couldn't say for sure, but even so, it would be sweet, and I'd jump on one. I love all of the CPM-4V DLC models I've collected from St Nick's. Another top shelf alloy. I don't know of any non-FRN Seki produced backlock K390 model besides the Bento Box PM2. It's definitely awesome that they've made plenty of production models with consistently solid HT in K390 at great prices, though. Makes me a lot less corrosion paranoid. Wonder when they'll finally get a Magnacut line going.
Sounds like your stones are fining out from use, if it likes a more course edge, try a fresh 600 grit stone
My k390 knife rusted pretty badly over the last three months, with a coat of rem oil on it. That seems to be its only weakness. The edge itself will corrode and go dull faster than from using it. I would not buy more than one k390 knife, living in a humid area
K390 rules!
Which do you think is better to buy between the Kizer Maverick Custom in cpm 10v or the Boker Plus Brad Zinker in K390? Thanks!!!
The Kizer 10V I've done hardness testing on is all soft. The Boker K390 I can't say how it is.
Our Vanadiums go to eleven...
I just got some Rex 45 from Spyderco with horrible belt chadder..it's clearly visible and the worst I've seen on the native I picked up..
im not sure why there was any hype. its mass production heat treatment. sure spyderco are one of the better mass production companies, but you cant get custom heat treat results in a factory. 10v takes a bit more care than can be done in the factory.
It cracks me up how people pay a fortune for a production knife it think most steel is gimmick they all end up cut about the same. But spyderco does have better prices then benchmade I'll never buy their stuff overpriced then they donate to anti gun groups. I personally want American made but I have coldsteel because best lock beats out everything else to me I've had liner lock fail an other knives are overpriced
@@richardhenry1969 Yeah and atleast Cold steel is an american company even though alot of there stuff is made in Taiwan. But so are alot of Spydercos. The Taiwan Spydercos are some of the best
So you would you recommend a s10v para 3 over a K390?…..Thank you in advance for your answer.
I have no idea how the 10V Para 3 came out and may well perform better. If all stayed the same both will perform similarly.
Hey, do you ever trade knives? If you can find or get your hands on a K390 or 10V paramilitary 2 or one of the old Farid K2 Spydercos I'd love to make an offer for one of them.
I do have a K390 PM2 but I don't plan on letting it go currently. My email is in the description, getvwith me and I may have something to interest you.
My K390 PM2 came with either a slight excess of steel at the tip, or bent., brand new from B Box
Dumb question but what Is belt chatter
The best way I can explain it at the moment @ToneSetter, is like this
.
When you pluck a guitar string, it vibrates. Sanding belts can do the same thing. So when a 'vibrating' sanding belt is run across a knife edge, when sharpening it. Or it begins to vibrate while passing across the steel edge. It leaves what some of us call 'belt chatter' marks. Which are just tiny waves, on the secondary bevel.
Then, when you hit it with a sharpening stone for the first time. The high spots in that 'belt chatter' pattern, stand out more. As the tops of the waves get flattened first.
Now Im depressed…….
Why do you forget so much stuff? could you write it down? It would be really cool to be able to derive how many cuts on average one can gain related to hardness levels, and to understand how this varies by steel. I love your work and effort, but it could be more scientific.
RE: "but it could be more scientific."
That's funny, in that this is so far from a scientific methods approach process of testing, begining early in the video with statements including pre-test results assumptions ..., with consideration for basic understanding that "cognitive assumptions can distort how one interprets the observation" (partial quote Scientific Methods definition)
I just want my damn manix pm2 to stay relevant
If that 10V comes in at 64, it's going to be disappointing. On the bright side, K390 at 65 cuts like Spyderco's M390 at 62! 🤣🤣🤣
I'll take Cruwear at 63! 😂
My REC PM 2 10V Satin came in at 64.5. Of course I was hoping for a 66!
: - )
Have you tested any 10V since this post?
And, do we know yet what this K390 PM 2 tested at?
Who else watches in .25X speed to get a more authentic experience?
Why do you expect more from 10V? (Don't listen to the hype). I say it's on point. It's supposed to perform similar to a K390 a couple points harder, looking at wear resistance curves for the two. So if you get it tested I predict the 10V will be 2 or 3 points softer than the K390.
Love your work thank for calling out the crazy steel fad. I think alot is sales gimmick. To me I don't see the reason to spend so much on a lot of these knives. I think now lock wins out so I'll stay with my coldsteel knives in ctsxhp. An 2 of them in aus10 I'm also luck to have a boker auto ak47 in xhp until something else super comes along I know where to find it get tested much better then stupid unboxing an talk about what it should do I like my stuff to work thanks stay safe
You just don't know nothing !