What If the Star Trek: TNG Crew Had Actually Left the Enterprise?
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
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▶Chapters:
0:00 - Introduction
03:03 - The Classic Trek Era Movies
06:46 - Re-imagining Star Trek: First Contact
17:09 - Re-Imagining Insurrection and Nemesis
28:56 - Lost Opportunities for Worldbuilding
31:03 - Conclusion
33:03 - Shoutouts, Plugs, and Announcements
#startrek #startrektng #startrektheoriginalseries #startrekpicard - Zábava
A shame about the Lollipop, she was a good ship.
You beat me to it. I tip my hat to you.
Was also looking for this. Well done you.
And we'll done Steve!
It was a sucker ship.
It only took three licks, then...BOOM!
I hear her newly-commissioned combat strengths of 10 and 6 are bad-ass.
Suggested rewrite to your rewrite of Nemesis:
Picard and the Enterprise crew are scouring various planets, collecting the different parts of B4. They find all but one. Suddenly there is a hail from another starship. It's the Lollipop. Picard orders communication up on the view screen. Riker appears and says, "Captain, do you need a hand?" At which point he produces one of B4's arms from off screen.
...or the hand comes giving giving "the finger" and Riker says, "There may be an emotion chip involved - don't take it personally."
To which Picard replies "What is it with you and android arms, Will?" (Referencing when he removed Data's arm in Measure of a Man.)
@@graafisk 👏👏👏
@@cryofpaine
👏👏👏
Ah, the good ship Lollipop.
Your impression of the nerd suggesting that Worf couldn't be captain because of his misadventures with Dax was a near perfect impression of a riled up Zek. Food for thought, Steve.
ACQUIRE! *strokes earlobes *
I laughed so hard at that impression because that's how many hardcore fans do when it comes to the poor character development of the supporting cast. They use past canon to support why they shouldn't have opportunities to grow. Counselor Troi's promotions comes to mind or the fact that LeForge basically remained unpromoted for six seasons and four films!
It did sound very Wallace Shawn-like.
"And McCoy has retired." Apparently...to join the Bee Gees?
or ZZTop
@@LordDragon1965 His baby beard is too small for ZZ Top. ;-)
Well, he is all about *stayin' alive* ...you can tell by the way he walks.
He was studying medical cocaine.
I never understood why Picard didn’t go into archeology after leaving the Enterprise or after leaving Starfleet in Star Trek Picard? They made a big deal on TNG that archeology was his 2nd love and was quite skilled at it.
Picard left the Enterprise to oversee the relocation of the Romulans when it was discovered their sun will go nova. Picard has always been a diplomat and wants to make a difference. Unbeknownst to him, there was a conspiracy in place to ruin everything.
Honestly, I think Picard becoming an archaeologist makes a lot more sense than him just fucking off back to his vineyard. and would make a much more compelling reason for him to discover Data's brother. Maybe he's on a dig and that's where he finds the android bits and calls up Captain Worf of the USS Enterprise to be like "Hey, we found this android stuff- I think you and First Officer Data should get your asses over here and take a look." And maybe Captain Riker, Geordi and his ship just so happen to be in the area so they also swing by this dig to check it out.
Because “modern” TV characters are all written to be bitter, resentful shadows of their former selves. writers think this shows “depth”.
I often find myself thinking about how DS9 ended, and how a lot of the command crew DID leave; Sisko, Odo, Worf, O’Brien. And then I think about how the station would have been destroyed a week later because these people weren’t around to save it anymore.
#YouForgetRom... #AndQuark... #BetweenThoseTwo...? #AndKira? #TerokNorMosDefSafeAsSpaceHouses.
In the spirit of characters leaving the Enterprise and shaking things up, I really think the producers of TNG missed a huge opportunity with season 6's "Second Chances", when we're introduced to Riker's transporter duplicate. That would have been the perfect time for Will Riker to finally take one of the zillion captaincy offers (as him falling off the bridge would have been a bit too easy, I think), leave the ship and let "Tom" Riker to stay on at a lower rank and be with Deanna. I think the new dynamic on the ship would be interesting. Maybe first officer Data, Worf at ops, and Lt. Riker being head of security, all side by side with Troi and Riker finding themselves again as a couple. And a new Riker, who's unfamiliar with anyone else on the ship. I honestly think the producers kinda wimped out there.
I too have watched SFDebris 😉
Whoa! That would have been awesome indeed!
I agree 👍
Lower Decks literally did this, and the latest episode has expanded on this and shown where the clone is going to go. Will be interesting to see what they do with him.
Also IIRC Riker's clone is still out there so he could pop up on Lower Decks or a Picard spinoff series (or Picard S3 but it's getting crowded already) which would be fun.
Huh, I like that. Would have let them kind of eat their cake and have it. Riker moves on, but Frakes doesn't.
I have always thought it was bizarre that Picard didn’t retire after Generations. He lost his family, his ship, as you point out his crew should have been ready to move on.
Picard should have been at Chateau Picard in your First Contact. Captain Riker coupd have picked him up as a strategic asset.
That makes sense. If a Borg Cube was coming to Earth, reactivating the commission of the person with the most insight into their way of thinking would be a good move. Picard's Ahab tendencies in the film could be out of a desire to regain purpose (in addition to PTSD), and at the end he finds more fulfillment in Starfleet than sitting alone in his chateau, so he rejoins in a longer-term capacity.
And even if he stayed Retired, Nemesis at least gives another reason for him to get back in the Saddle; what with his whole evil clone. Who better to try and deal with an Evil Picard, then the real thing? Not sure how getting him back for Insurrection would work...
Also, I half expected the 'Troi goes off to the fringes' was gonna be set up/tie-in for Insurrection's plot. I don't dislike Insurrection, my issue with it over-all is that it doesn't feel like a movie. It feels like they found some lost 2-parter from the TV series and tried to punch it up a bit. So I am fine with anything that helps make it feel like the movies before it.
If they did that they really would have changed his scene with Kirk in the Nexus though? Kirk's advice to him basically is: "Stay Captain, everything else sucks!"
Or his recurring Borg nightmares force him back out to confront them one last time.
Who would turn down a ride on Riker's Lolipop?
Half my coworkers probably think I have gone insane I was laughing so hard. Thank you Steve.
Obviously, Troy couldn't resist getting on Riker's Lolipop!
The way riker gets in a chair is probably someone’s kink out there
Steve, please stop selling me on the idea of Riker's lollipop so hard...
How many licks does it take to get to the center?
Oh Steve. That’s just all kinds of wrong.
Steve at about 26 minutes begins to descend into madness and turn into Wallace Shawn as the Grand Nagus.
Inconceivable!🤣
I always liked the idea of having more than one hero ship as part of a plot.
River’s ship the Lollipop is a nice deep cut reference. Riker said that was the ship he served on in the season 1 episode Arsenal of Freedom (one of the best episodes of TNG Season 1). Nicely done!
No! Really? I thought it was just a childish joke!
@@Donnagata1409 She's a good ship
It was just commissioned. It's a good ship
@@mattbakken8298 Thank you. Now I don't need to make that awful joke. :-)
"I know the ship Riker takes command of is called the Titan, but I'm still going with Lollipop. Doesn't that sound like a fun place to work?" It does sound like it'd be a good ship. I can see Riker gazing off into the middle distance talking about the "good ship, Lollipop..."
😀😃😄😆🤣
Data has not been promoted once in 15 years. He could have been first officer on another ship in "First Contact". Riker probably had a promotion ban for a few years because of the Pegasus incident. It would also have been a cool thing if Shelby had shown up again.
"Riker probably had a promotion ban for a few years because of the Pegasus incident."
If not for that, for his ridiculous child like behaviour towards Jellico at least.
I loved Shelby,she was tough,ambitious,career-minded,wasn't afraid to go after what she wanted,etc,etc,her character reminded me of women who I served with in the army.Especially my female platoon sgt when I was stationed in Korea-she was smart,intelligent,open to suggestions,friendly,decisive and FINE. LOL.
@@ineptwizzard What child like behavior?
Ah, Shelby. A Kirk-like out of the box thinker with an extra helping of ambition in Picard's overly cautious and diplomatic Federation.
There was a good opportunity for some drama there, but that road was not taken.
P.S. normal rotation is three or four years in one command.
To be really #BorgBizarre, imagine Data requesting a reassignment to Utopia Planitia to assist Shelby with the design of a successor to the Defiant-class, then he uploads his Positronic Net into a prototype ship and leaves his body in storage (well it worked for Picard, so...) ?
Then we would finally have the ships as characters for real, and data could explore what it is to be a serving Starfleet ship. Each ship having its own personality as expressed in its ship's Computer (#RIPMajelBarrett) and having opinions of its crew, its role and its desire to evolve as a biotechnological entity.
This could follow on with the #RightsOfAIConundrum, and tie in (in some way I haven't yet figured out) with the #Control and #DiscoveryAI themes already existing, and probably end up with Data being an #AISurakWithALittleBitOfSybok for all artificial sentiences across the Alpha Quadrant.
Then we get complicated when data has a holodeck conversation with #Spock, #Sarek and #Tpau and ends up deciding he needs to go on an #ReverseKohlinarJourney of his own and fully transcend logic... or something.... or at least a little something for everybody.
I think I should stop now, before I totally ruin the franchise for everybody.
Love the "arsenal of freedom" reference 😂 the majestic lollipop!!
"It's a good ship."
You missed an opportunity:
"Captain Crusher, it's the Lollipop!"
"It's a good ship," Crusher celebrated.
And “On the good ship lollipop” is stuck in my head.
Beverly was an already established badass during the serries. Your rewrite of First Contact would be great with her. Though getting to experience the idea of Troi being a bit of a badass is cool too.
I liked the entire REWRITE that Steve did for both women. My only complaint is why can't we see Beverly as captain of her own ship with Troi as her second officer? That would have been so cool! My uncle was a medic in WWII and Korea. He told me the people who had the most difficult jobs were the medical personnel because they literally had to fly in and out of battle situations all while trying to save a soldier's life. As a Troi fan, I get tired of people giving her nothing to do or discounting that she got commander, which many fans are STILL angry about because she got her promotion before Data did. I've often wondered if Gates, Marina and Denise refused to sleep with a Harvey Winestein type producer who treated them so poorly over the years giving their characters only the basics to do. I am really hoping the third season of Picard passes the Bechdel test and gives Crusher and Troi substantial roles! I have nothing against Troi being a wife and a mother because that is what I am. That said, I also have a career in education that isn't shabby! If not, the producers should at least give Marina ten episodes of the Riker's in Space with their Little Dog Worf while Gates gets ten episodes of Capt. Dr. Crusher Galaxy Medic!🤣🤣🤣
@@fredrika27 To your point out the 3 leading women, there are documented stories of their less-than-stellar treatment as professional actors and humans. Each of them has also obliquely or directly shared info at cons about what happened to them.
Troi was a good Romulan. They could have run with that previously unexplored part of her personality, but they didn't.
More generally, the crew was unrealistically stagnant. People rotate on and off ships all the time. Even if the standard rotation is 5 years instead of 3, everyone should have been gone. Crusher did rotate off for a season, then came right back.
Even in the original series Checkov arrived and Rand departed and that was only three years.
I really like your First Contact rewrite!
Would it be too much for the Lollypop to have a big saucer section with just a single long warp nacelle directly behind it?
Yes, that would be too much, even for us trekkies. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
*Captain Riker holding up B-4's arm* "Greetings, Jean Luc! Need a hand?"
It was RIGHT there, Steve!
The nice thing about the First Contact change is that it adds some context to Picard's speech near the end of the film. His whole "They assimilate entire worlds and we fall back" bit never made sense because we never saw that. There's one scene in Best of Both World I think where they expire a colony that got attacked but that's it. Opening First Contact with the sense that this is a larger engagement would make Picard's words more meaningful.
I really like the First Contact intro change, I think that would have spilled over into the next two movies in interesting ways. It always bugged me that Riker didn’t get his own command. I understood why he didn’t for TV show reasons but in universe I always found the explanation lacking.
Speaking of the TOS crew getting promotions I always thought it made more sense for Sulu to be the first officer of the Reliant in Wrath of Khan. It fits continuity with Khan recognizing him from the Enterprise in Space Seed (as opposed to Chekov who wasn’t there) and it fits in with Sulu’s eventual rise in the ranks to Captain his own ship. I always found that odd as theres no reason Chekov & Sulus roles in Star Trek 2 couldn’t be switched out.
That part about Worf is one of the best things I’ve ever heard you say.
Seeing Picard and Riker arguing, both as Captains, would have been interesting, too.
It would give a nice through line for the TNG films for Worf to get the Captaincy, from his promotion to Lt. Commander in Generations, his performance on the Defiant and Enterprise during First Contact, his sing along with Picard during Insurrection, this could all be part of an arc that takes Worf from Security Chief to Captain.
You forget that incident in DS9 that effectively ruined his chances of becoming captain
I always thought that the borg cliffhanger from TNG when Picard became Loqutus was going to be a major shift in the crew. Picard is now a villain hunting and tormenting the crew he once commanded, Riker is the new captain, the blonde officer they introduced becomes his number 1 - I was so excited to see the season premiere and then by the end everything went back to normal. It was kind of a letdown.
I could totally see that as a TNG mirror universe arc
Maybe Riker's ship could be established in Insurrection and then carried over to Nemesis. Riker and Geordie being seperate from everyone else is already in that movie's DNA and then in Nemesis, it could get blown up for whatever reason so Riker could get command of the Enterprise after Picard's retirement because that's the job he's been eyeing for years and then he could have Worf as his XO. That's just one step further than what you suggested but this feels more complete somehow
“What ship is hailing us!?”
“It’s the… Lollipop Ma’am!”
“The Lollipop!? The GOOD SHIP Lollipop?”
“Yes Commander Troi, it’s a sweet ship!”
One might say that Starfleet Command had a ... Change of Heart ... about giving Worf a command.
🥁 Ba dum bump.
Steve, you've never explained how your screen grabs have this weird uncanny valley about them.
I was creeped out by the Data picture where his pupils aren't the same size.
I'd heard that original drafts for First Contact had Riker commanding his own ship, but that's hearsay and I've know idea if that's just random rumor or some something that's actually been confirmed.
Worf’s situation in the movies always confused me. How was he serving on DS9 and also the Enterprise at, what seemed to be, the same time frame? When last we saw him on DS9 he had accepted a post as Klingon ambassador. But then he’s back on Enterprise. I too had hoped he would’ve succeeded Picard as captain.
There was usually a line of dialogue. In first contact he was piloting siskos backhand during the battle at the start, in insurrection I think he was doing some field work against the dominion and in nemesis he’s there for Troy and rikers wedding
@@tenkenroo Yeah, it was always some convenient plot occurrence that shorehorned Worf in. If they did another one he should've just beamed onto the bridge and said "I heard you guys were doing another movie, so I'm here...."
@@MrAnim8orVideos "I had a vision from Kahless that you were going on an adventure, and I wished to join you."
USS Lollipop!
Love it!!
I actually prefer your opening to First Contact to what we actually got.
It adds maybe... 10 minutes of run time and adds a huge depth of lore
You have offered sooo much, I don't know where to start. To your version of 'First Contact', I truly enjoyed! How imaginative and fun it was to experience that. Then going into the actual movies plot flowed, and with the change to Data.
Now to Riker's ship's name.
It would have to be the 'Lollipop B'. There were prior ships named Lollipop before.
There's the Shirley Temple version ( that's the original). Then there the Tiny Tim version.
So this would be Lollipop B.
And the best of all is we know it would be a GOOD ship!
👏👏👏👏👏👏
🍻
Watching Steve's videos is like getting a mini master class in storytelling. I feel inspired.
Its a bit of a reality check looking at the photo at 6:04 of the Enterprise crew from _"Star Trek: The Motion Picture"_ and realizing that only four of the eleven pictured are still with us (Will Shatner, Steve Collins,. Walter Koenig and George Takei). 😟
I actually think if First contact just having Riker and Data being promoted would have been the perfect amount of growth. Also, I think they could have done a scene where after Picard has decided to Disobey orders, Riker would have sent out an alert to the Alpha Quadrant to recall all available ships as the acting Captain of the defense fleet from his ship. Also, it would make Starfleet less of a stupid organization by not having at least one of the two command officers with the most experience fighting the Borg... actually fighting the Borg. It would also make Picard's decision to save Data at the end more impactful then I'm just saving my friend. Rather, it would be like, "What Captain would I be if I left my Commander behind."
"What sort of captain would I be if I left my commander behind?" is a great line for when Picard and Lily part ways.
My favorite thing about your videos is the humor. It reminds me so much of Lower Decks and I love Lower Decks. Thanks for the great content.
Not sure Steve will appreciate that as much given his (well placed) disdain for Lower Decks “humor.” LOL
Ehh, it's meant as a compliment, so I accept it gratefully as such. But reading "your humor reminds me of Lower Decks" did make me do a double-take for sure.
17:28 Data too. _Insurrection_ has him on the anthropological(? Is that the right word?) mission watching the Ba'ku settlement. I don't remember if it was supposed to be a permanent reassignment or just a temporary one, but it was a reassignment. So Worf and, right at the end, Riker weren't the _only_ changes; damn near it, but not the only ones.
Great points! While reuniting for subsequent movies would have to be more contrived, it doesn’t have to be a bad thing. Doctor Who frequently separates our heroes on separate but related adventures, and the same could happen with multiple ships involved. Start a movie with the Enterprise hopelessly screwed, but then it’s not Wesley Crusher, but Captain Riker and the Lollipop (I understood that reference) that swoop in and save the Enterprise, for once. No dig on Picard - he just taught Riker that well, and now learns from him as an equal. That would be a fun dynamic to explore in itself.
Basically your worf captain scenario played out that way in the Una McCormack book Star Trek: Picard: The Last Best Hope
Always love your work Steve, keep up the good work!
I do love the fact that you referred to the hypothetical ship Riker would Captain as the lollipop. Definitely a clever reference back to an episode of TNG where Rikers being interrogated by an Alien Probe pretending to be a Starfleet officer and he says his ship is called the lollipop and then mentioned how it's a good ship.
I really like these alternate stories. I love the Steve Shives Verse (SS-Verse? Doesn't have the same ring to it as JJ-Verse for obvious reasons) and I really like the Steve versions of These Are The Voyages and Endgame/Pale Blue Dot.
i imagine all the seating on the "Lollypop" is modeled after bar stools.
I genuinely like rikers ship being called the lollipop because I imagine at some point someone tries to make fun of him for it and riker flips their fragile masculinity back on them with a smile.
In series 1 arsenal of freedom, he says he is on the ship the lollipop
@@emmacobb591 It's a good ship
the good ship lollipop. Heh, honestly I kinda love it
"The needs of the marketing outweigh the needs of the realism."
Love the speculation.
I always just assumed the crew felt no pressure to advance their careers because they didn’t have to. In the post scarcity world they live in you only have your happiness to persue, and they all seemed pretty happy in that crew.
13:45
I LOVE how once Riker beams up his mrs and some crew they run away. 😂😂😂
"Who would turn down a ride on Riker's lollipop?" 🤣😂
Loved this video and the scenarios you drew up, especially the new opening to First Contact.
Also, I never noticed the ripped-up chair at 5:40, I can't believe that was left in the movie.
Glad you’re finally coming round to the super importance of lore.
I dunno, 2 consecutive ship rescues (Loolypop and Defiant) to get major crew members back on the Enterprise would seem a bit heavy handed
Worf: Perhaps today IS a good day to die. PREPARE FOR RAMMING SPEED!
Defiant Helmsman: Sir there's another starship coming up.
It's the Lollypop!!
I've been binge watching your Star Trek videos the last few days. I am looking forward to this video.
Once you give Riker a ship at the start of First Contact, it's really easy to play out basically the exact same movie where the Lollypop is the ship that goes back in time. Riker rescues Troi, just like your pitch, and races to Earth to participate in the battle. Picard isn't on the Enterprise E. There is no Enterprise E yet. He works on an office complex space station in Earth orbit. Crusher is back at "Starfleet Medical" on Earth so it's plausible she's visiting her old friend/flame. When the Lollypop gets to Earth, that station is subject to the Borg attack, and Riker rescues Picard and Crusher from it. Reuse Worf getting saved from the Defiant, and you only need to stick Data in anywhere to get the whole crew back together on the Lollypop instead of the Enterprise.
Now the movie takes place on a ship without the fancy brand name, and it's a lot more plausible to the audience that it could get destroyed in the events of the film. Everybody new the producers wouldn't create a new Enterprise to blow it up in its first film.
Totally agree with your concept. World-building. All 4 TNG movies felt like 4 glorified TNG episodes.....hence they didn't quite resonate well as the TOS movies in terms of scale and scope for a motion picture feel.
aight. chekov got major league shafted going from number one on a light cruiser to gun monkey on an antique. dude got it rough.
one thing to note when youre working alongside people with that whole "in the trenches' vibe, the one that bonds you as family: 7 years ceases to seem like a long time after a while. Started with a group of singers in 2003 and the core group stuck around for about 7 years. many for 11, I for thirteen. I should have left around the 7 year mark as well and didn't, to my detriment, but somehow many of us were kept there through some magnetism. Recently signed on to help out for a concert season and 2 of those people are still there 19 years later.
7 years is a miniscule time for bonded characters, especially those who travel together (and the TNG crew are the ensemble who have travelled together more than any other LOL)
There is that, but also a group of singers aren't a military organisation like Starfleet.
@@thecynicaloptimist1884 totally fair. that was in the back of my mind when writing, but considering the soap opera in space tone of most every b-plot it still felt kind of appropriate
To be honest, I always found the fact that the TNG crew were on the Enterprise in the same jobs for the seven years of the series was fairly unrealistic. Whether Star Fleet is a military or company style organization, there is always a pressure and need to move talent around. Even if Star Fleet didn't have a "up or out" attitude to promotions everyone should have been pressured into accepting new and bigger jobs as they gained reputations for competence in their fields.
For some reason I was expecting the buildup of “His Hand Picked Successor” to jump to Barclay, at least for a gag.
1:56 I was going to say, "ffs stop appologising for your idea"... until I saw it was a lead up to the Nemesis joke, haha! Well done :D
Heck, I could envision Geordie working at Starfleet as their head engineer, developing newer weapons and😅 defenses against the Borg. Deanna would probably feel comfortable away from a bridge for a while, having a private consulting practice somewhere. Data would be Riker's first officer. There's plenty of options.
Captain Riker: Well, Data, it looks like youve gotten ahead of yourself, again.
Great point about how... Frozen in time... the TNG films felt compared to the TOS films. I'm not sure that's as big an issue to me as how most of them only seem to care about Picard and Data as characters with everyone else in the ensemble being relegated to second tier (TOS films don't have this issue as much for me because while they can feel like they only really care about Kirk, Spock and McCoy... TOS was already the Kirk, Spock and McCoy show rather than feeling like an ensemble piece with and often the second-fiddle roles the rest of the cast get in them give them more to do than they usually had in the show.
Like Tilly. She left Discovery and started working at the Starfleet Academy. OMG, character-career growth in my Star Trek? It’s more likely than you think!
That was a great Grand Nagus Zek impersonation!
I had no idea there would be quite so much John Logan slander, but I am here for it.
The Lollipop!!! Excellent metajoke to Arsenal Of Freedom! 😁 It's a good ship.
Hang on - that's exactly the sort of joke Lower Decks does!!! 😯
I see how it is, it's OK when you do it, but not when anyone else does?!
😡
I'm watching you, buster!!!
My head canon theory is this. They’re actually NOT the best crew, Picard lost his previous ship by getting his ass handed to him by the Ferengi. He was then assigned the Enterprise as a way for starfleet to save face from the loss of the Stargazer, he was assigned to a ship that had children and daycare, the crew that starfleet didn’t think to highly of, a robot, a blind dude, a first officer that had grown lazy and complacent, an annoying wiz kid, a security officer that was reckless, and a fraking Klingon. Nobody made any real major advancement in over a decade. The Galaxy class was prone to disasters, (the Yamato, the Odyssey.) Getting assigned to the Enterprise was a punishment.
I wouldn't of minded a Beverly series. With her command experience she is given command of a Starfleet Medical HQ station. Now this would of been one of those movie era space stations ships dock inside of lol. The twist, now Capt Crusher commands the station... but therefore is not chief medical officer... almost on cue (cuz it was written that way), in walks [dun dun dun]...
fill in whoever, Pulaski, that lady who messed with Worf's spine, Commander Bashir and his fiance Garek.... whatever warps your ship.
"Who would turn down a ride on Riker's Lollipop?"
I laughed WAY harder than I should have at that.
Surely no one would!!!! 🖖🖖
Steve you had me at Lollipop. Well done.
I agree! And I always found it frustrating that Insurrection and Nemesis diminished or ignored Worf's actual character and career growth.
In First Contact, Borg-combat veteran Worf commanding the Defiant, a ship originally designed to fight the Borg, made sense. It's damaged and they beam him onto the Enterprise (it would have been nice if O'Brien was with him). The Defiant is "adrift but salvageable," (i.e. won't interfere with DS9's storylines). Perfect.
Then in Insurrection, Worf walks around a corner suddenly and bumps into Picard. Their conversation is essentially this:
Picard: "Worf? What are you doing here?"
Worf: "Well, I was on my way to..."
(Someone else interupts and talks over him).
Picard: "Forget it, tell me later."
Worf must have done just that because he never does finish what he was telling Picard, or at least we never see him do it. The only further mention is a line where Picard says "We'll have to delay your return to DS9."
Worf, as established and shown on both TNG and DS9, is a duty-driven workaholic who doesn't like taking leave...so naturally he is totally fine with not returning to work so he can go on an adventure with his old friends.
I can imagine Worf calling Sisko:
"Captain Sisko? I'm sorry, I can't come back in to work today. My friends from my old job can't drop me off and apparently no one else on this ship can help them or do what I do. Yeah, all their warp-capable shuttles/runabout are broken, too. Oh well. What's that, sir? Oh yes, I know it's the middle of the Dominion War and my wife just died. No, they didn't come to my wedding, nor send a message of congratulations with their regrets that they weren't able to make it because of wartime operations they were involved in. No, they haven't mentioned her at all. Yes, Captain Picard WAS my cha'dich. Yeah, we're super close. No, he hasn't mentioned it but he did cut me off earlier. Maybe I would've been able to bring it up. But he's not big into emotions, like my ex-girlfriend is. Yep, she's here too and she's a therapist. No, she hasn’t brought it up either. No, she's busy flirting with her other ex. All right, well I don't want to run up the Enterprise's phone bill. Gotta go! See ya' later guy-who-intimidates-me!"
And then there's Nemesis (which my friends and I always pronuonce like the way the Yoda-speech bar patron alien with the big ears in Star Trek III says "Genesis"). Nemesis flat out ignores Worf's service as Ambassador, just like it ignores Wesley having left Starfleet (not to mention this existential realm).
Sadly, It's par for the course though for how Worf's character grew on DS9, versus a bit more stagnant on TNG. Remember the "Worf getting denied again and again" video anyone? czcams.com/video/edflm7Hh3hs/video.html
I was not expecting a 'The arsenal of freedom' reference with the USS Lollipop XD
Your reworking of first contact wouldn't even be that hard to do truthfully. Troi could be on Ivor Prime (the colony named in the attack). Riker and Geordi could be assigned to DS5 with their own ship like Sisko and O'Brien on DS9 with the Defiant
"Who would turn down a ride on Riker's Lollipop?"......Hmmmmmm, the double entendre is strong with this one.
On the contrary, I think having them separated and find each other in the opening few scenes of a movie would make the universe seem smaller.
I do like your rewrite for FC, despite not believing you premise of splitting them up to be at all necessary. I think saving Riker and Co. aboard the Lollypop then doing the same for Worf aboard the Defiant two scenes later would need a bit more work to not feel too repetitive though.
Aside from Riker, who has a clear path for advancement, we're talking about the heads of departments, they're top of their fields already. There are other things they could do such as Crusher at SF medical, but if they want to work on a ship and in their chosen field, then senior staff on the flagship is the most prestigious posting they can hope for. Worf didn't go off to just be head of security/tactical at a new posting, he changed over to the command division too, it was a different career trajectory.
After Generations, I think it would have made the most sense for:
Picard becomes an admiral at Starfleet command
Riker gets captaincy of the next Enterprise, with Troi as first officer
Data gets command of his own ship, and Geordi goes with him
Crusher goes back to Starfleet Medical
And there's no way Picard is worse than Nemesis. Not by a longshot. Frankly I actually enjoyed it, particularly season 2. The only movie worse than Nemesis is Into Darkness. Or as I call it, ID(iot).
Excellent "Arsenal of Freedom" reference. I dare say it was a good ship joke.
TMP took place only 2.5 years after TOS so it would make sense most of the crew stayed together. WOK is set like 13 years later. Sulu was on earth to raise his daughter and was supposed to get Excelsior and move on in the original script/novel. Uhura could’ve got her own command. In TNG they were very slow to promote. Some of those guys like Data should have been Captain like Spock was in the later era of their careers.
Oooo, good topic next month! Lookiong forward to it. :)
this just made me think of a scenario where Captain Riker, with his first officer Data encounter the borg and then they have to be rescued by picard, not only breaking his " by the book " structure cause of his Cap Ahab hate of the borg... but also his friends. As I was writing this you started telling your version and it is a lot better than mine lol but I just wanna say I agree with the move forward after the D was destroyed.
One line to resolve any conflict with the end of Generations: "Maybe it's time I let someone else make that difference."
I really, really liked that first new scene that had Deanna on a colony, Borg attacking and a last minute rescue… Love that Borg-threat, and tension…
One of the things that went wrong with Picard S2 looks like an awkward, last minute reshuffling of actors into hastily written/rewritten roles. We know Orla Brady was going to be playing Confederation!Laris(which would have been _so much better)_ until someone nixed that from on high, requiring her to be shunted into a comparably large role, the Watcher. I theorise that the Watcher role was already written but intended to be filled by Ducane, from that Voyager episode where Seven got to wear an actual uniform and they worked together to fix the timeline. Since they'd already signed Ducane's actor up, they had to give him something to do, so slashed his character down to the alias Ducane would have been using on 21st century earth, Agent Wells(the H.G. is silent), and made that alias his actual character with a hastily thrown together Fox Mulder-ripoff backstory. This meant that he couldn't interact with Seven to affect the plot in a way that would have been appropriate and effective for their previously established roles.
There was no character in 2024 who actually had a reason to want the Confederation to happen, which I pin on the abrupt and untimely demise of the Magistrate. He was on the bridge of the ship that went back into the past. Why was he killed off, rather than serving as the active antagonist who was trying to ensure that his version of the future happened, in direct opposition to Picard et al? Well, this is pure speculation, but the latest Soong felt very shoehorned in and barely tacked to the main plot. Like his only reason for existing was to give Brent Spiner something to do. It would have hung together a lot better if the Magistrate had been the main antagonist and Soong his sidekick who was only in it for the promise of a statue in the future. Similarly Isa Briones - happy to see her, but why was she there? Kore meant nothing to the plot, except to establish that Soong genes are photocopied from one generation to the next. Feels like the Magistrate was written out to hand his screentime over to Spiner.
Then there was that loathsome "Here's a gritty portrayal of a woman suffering domestic abuse at the hands of her cruel, controlling husba- lol, jk, she's crazy, you can't trust a word she says, he _has_ to control and isolate her for her own good and ooh isn't suicide tragically beautiful?" plot, which I hope was the victim of running out of time so wrenching what was intended to be a responsible story around to a simpler, easier to wrap up conclusion halfway through writing. It was disgusting, honestly despicable, and I am stunned that Patrick Stewart(advocate against domestic abuse) signed off on it.
Q... kinda... didn't need to be there. Okay, he set up the whole "Time's broken, look at this nightmare version of your life, uh oh, you need to go back to the past and prevent it!" thing, but other than that he just acted against his own stated goal to get Picard to fix reality. Almost every action he took was intended to break it further. Like those manipulations were things someone with a different motivation was meant to do. Someone like the Magistrate.
Picard's promotion to Admiral could have gone like the promotion scene at the beginning of Hot Fuzz, ending with Janeway saying, Jean Luc, take the damn promotion.
Clever callback to TNG S1 Arsenal of Freedom 👍
It's funny how your idea of Star Trek: First Contact is ultimately so much more interesting and entertaining than what ACTUALLY happened lmao
This was very entertaining. Thanks
I'd argue First Contact's opening is pretty damned good to begin with. I believe it needs to remain the way it is, since it pays off later on in the movie. That said, there could be a way to keep many of the same beats with Riker commanding the Lollipop. Picard and those on the Enterprise disable the sphere and it lays dormant in Earth's orbit, with Picard ready to blow it up. The Lollipop hails them and a concerned Geordi shouts, "NO!" The Lollipop had been tasked with being the front-line for Borg attacks, due to Riker's performance in "Best of Both Worlds" Part II. They got wind that the Borg had just assimilated a ship in the Delta Quadrant that had experimental time travel technology on it. While crude, the Borg are quickly adapting to it and may be able to unlock it.
Picard sees this as a sign it absolutely needs to be destroyed to prevent not only the Sphere from travelling back in time, but also that information being transmitted through the Collective and orders Worf, rescued from the Defiant, to fire at it, which Worf does, creating a time warp swallowing up the Lollipop and the Enterprise. Upon arriving in the past, the Lollipop begins showing signs of it being assimilated, so Riker orders the crew to evacuate so they can self-destruct. Both ships were affected by the time warp and neither has transporters or shields, and the Enterprise was thrown a good distance from Earth, so Riker needs to head towards Earth. In a shuttle, Riker spots a small Borg ship aiming at a part of the Northern United States, he quickly maneuvers over and destroys the ship, but, like the movie, they determine that it was Bozeman, Montana that was the target. The launch site of the Phoenix, to be more accurate.
The Enterprise limps towards Earth and sends down a shuttle crew of engineers to assist. The shuttle lands and Lily, who spotted the whole thing takes advantage and commandeers the shuttle, which was directed to return back to the Enterprise under the cover of night to prevent this very situation from happening. The Barclay luck holds up, since he was so giddy to be at the site of the Phoenix, forgets to secure the shuttle. D'oh.
The rest of the movie unfolds in much the same way, from here, until the end, when a somewhat repaired Enterprise can beam the Lollipop survivors aboard (along with their engineering team) and a tearful reunion can take place.
*INSURRECTION*
As for Insurrection, I'd also have the crew split between ships. The Enterprise would be assigned to the Briar patch to ferry Admiral Daugherty to meetings with the Son'a. Daughtery believes he can negotiate with them due to a prior meeting when he was a Captain. Starfleet determines this is an incredibly important mission, since the Son'a are providing the Dominion with Ketracel White and making them allies could cut that off at a crucial stage of the war. Daughtery is still aware of the Son'a's plan, but is willing to overlook that, if it means the Alpha Quadrant remains free of Dominion control. He also knows Picard ain't dumb, so he uses the features of the Briar Patch as an excuse to send the Enterprise away to communicate with Starfleet. Data and a small team are assigned to work with Daughterty on surveillance of the Baku at the Son'a's request. Picard tells Data that he suspects something is up, but can't put his finger on it. Data is puzzled by this expression, but not being Season 1 Data doesn't dwell on it. Picard tells Data to obey the orders from the Admiral, but also to stand up for the ideals of the Federation. This causes Data some consternation, as Picard unknowingly creates a situation similar to the one from Harrakis V, where Data is struggling to follow Picard's orders, which will lead to his episode in the Baku village.
While this is happening, Picard is seen to be somewhat frustrated. While receiving communications from Starfleet, a personal message comes through from Marie, Picard's sister-in-law, now widowed and grieving the loss of her son. She tells Picard that she's getting married to a man who has helped comfort her through her grief. While relieved to see she's able to start moving on, this re-opens the issue from Generations for Picard. He realizes he's grown accustomed to life on a starship, but that may not be a good thing. This fits in with the scene where he's able to tell the vibrations of the ship are off. He messages Troi, who is serving on the Lollipop, for guidance. She says its difficult to counsel someone over subspace, suggesting Picard talk to his current counselor, but Picard rebuts that with a, "Well, you know how difficult it was for me to open up to you, it took 7 years!"
The Lollipop-A is assigned to patrol near the Briar Patch and Riker swings by at Troi's insistance. While there, a garbled message from Daughterty comes through asking for Data's schematics. When pressed, Daughterty orders the Enterprise to stay out of the Briar Patch. Picard, in some more Star Trek contrivance, asks Riker for a favor. Daughterty never said for the Lollipop to stay out of the Briar Patch. While Daugherty is busy with the Lollipop's arrival, Picard takes Worf with him in the Captain's Yacht to get to the bottom of things. Like the original, it swaps Picard and Riker from where they were in First Contact (Picard on the ship, Riker on the surface) allowing much of the same plot beats to take place, as well as a dramatic moment when Crusher swoops in with the Enterprise to save the Lollipop from imminent destruction, giving her more to do than just comment on how the radiation has firmed her body up.
Picard's romance with Anij happens and he is opened up to the wonders he's missed on a starship. He gives the line about not wanting to give up his job he does in the original, but this time it's more poignant. It also sets up the decision in your version of Nemesis to become an Admiral (which is canon). He could even have the conversation about Kirk's advice to Anij, who responds, "Making a difference doesn't require being in a Captain's chair. Or even on a starship. It requires being there for those who need it." That could also tie into Picard fighting to help the Romulans.
I know it's probably one of the more popular scenes in nemesis, but the scene where Riker kills the viceroy? I'd give THAT to Worf.
I feel like that would be promotion worthy. And besides Riker got promoted already anyway right? I know he's a badass but he doesn't need it. We already know how good he is.
I believe Riker was chosen to avenge the telepathic violation of his wife.
@@gregoryalexandersipe130 which also didn’t need to be in there
Always enjoy the videos.
You had me at Captain Worf
You could honestly see a situation, for the 2nd tng movie. Where the entire crew is scattered... It opens up with Picard talking with starfleet, a situation has arose within the demilitarized zone and they need Picard and the Enterprise E there. "But that's Rikers ship", "Yes but you have more experience dealing with the Marquis" (essentially putting Picard into a Jelico position). THEN being told he will need to select his command staff, and with that pulls in Jordie from Europa Plantia, Crusher from Earth Medical, Data from the Daystrum institute, and the rest -worf are already on board.
From there they warp out of Earth space... Borg cube transwarps in.... All heck breaks loose, enterprise E is told to continue on to The demiliterized zone... Captain orders them to hold position, then when things start turning bad, the whole disobey orders, reverse course.
Because of this, the Enterprise is out of place when the dominion hits cardasian space and begins clearing out the demilitarized zone.
this is the problem with Trek, and alot of TV shows casts, they stay together longer than is normal IRL. Its fine to split them up and bring them back together once (so lets accept the redone First Contact), but if you have to do that bringing them back together every movie, it becomes a problem, and a cliche in and of itself. Sulu at least spends all of The Undiscovered Country on the Excelsior, and does not take up his old seat. You have to keep Riker, and Geordi on the "Lollipop" for it to really matter (II would assume Troi joins that crew for Insurrection). Nemesis at least has the excuse of a wedding to bring the crew back together, but then feels like Picard is using the flag ship for personal business.
If you only look at First Contact, Insurrection and Nemesis, then knowing that in advance is easy to plot an arc that works, however that isnt something writes had at the time.
My head-canon has always been that Picard realised he had a very, very good 'team' of people around him and so would have worked he ass off to try his best to keep it together. I also think the personal relations play a factor in helping that, Picard could probably count Data, Riker and Worf as genuine friends, and there are other friendships within the command crew, ie Data and Geordie.
When it comes to First Contact, my theory for Riker still being there is based in IRL Naval process; in the Royal Navy, a commanding officer is court-marshalled if a vessel is lost under their command, and Riker lost the Fleet Flagship to a D12-Class BoP. My theory is that he remained as 1st Officer under Picard to essentially make the problem go away, while there were mitigating circumstances, Riker did lose a Galaxy Class ship to an obsolete class of ship and so warrants some form of punishment, and so was denied a promotion.
And the option to be part of the command crew of a brand new Sovereign class ship would presumably have been quite appealing.
I so want a little kid's Star Trek show called The USS Lollipop, as long as there's an Admiral Temple that shows up in it.
A ride on Riker's lollipop! That was a pretty long walk for that one😂