MG11: The Magnificent Swiss Maxim Gun
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- čas přidán 14. 10. 2024
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The Swiss were one of the first countries to test Hiram Maxim’s new automatic machine gun in 1887, and they found it far superior to their just-recently-purchased Gardner guns. The first Swiss maxims were delivered in 1889, and the country came back three more times for newer models. The MG94 was the first major adoption, followed by the MG00 for cavalry. Finally, after the Maxim patents expired and DWM introduced their improved 1909 commercial pattern, the Swiss adopted it as the MG11. The first 167 MG11s were produced by DWM, but deliveries ceased in 1915 because of the war. This prompted the Swiss National Assembly to order the government arsenal W.F. Bern to begin production, and between 1915 and 1946 the Swiss made 10,269 more MG11s domestically. They were absolutely beautifully made weapons.
In 1934/35, a modernization program made a number of improvements to the guns. The booster was simplified, the trigger was made one-hand friendly (so the second hand could be used to adjust aim while firing), a bracket for antiaircraft sights was added, and traverse and elevation stops were added to the tripods. Most significantly, the cloth belt was replaced by a fully metal belt. That belt is widely regarded as the best Maxim belt ever produced, and it is particularly valuable to shooters today, as it will function with essentially any caliber in any model of Maxim.
Swiss Maxims were never exported in quantity, and they are quite rare today.
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Looking forward to when Ian takes this on Backup Gun Day.
It qualifies because he has to back up a vehicle to the firing line to bring the gun up
Just as the founding fathers intended
Want to see Ian on the range with it.
Ha, ha, ha!😉😉😉
It backs up a whole battalion!
A thing I really miss from my time in the army was "clicky snappy" sounds of assembling and disassembling gear. Nothing better than a positive click lol. You assembling that tripod got me all sweaty in the derps.
💀
There's lots of clicking going on in the military for sure, all that's going through my head as I read that was disassemble, reassemble, disassemble, reassemble, ECT
Wuh 💀
The sound of a company of men cleaning M14s on a crisp fall day....
Positive feedback is sexy, it’s true.
FYI this gun is paperless in Switzerland as only man-portable guns are regulated. That means buying one is the same as buying a soda... a very expensive soda, that needs water cooling
Time for dual citizenship
So one could make a non-man-portable MG42?
Switzerland now deserves 1st place for the "Greatest Nation on Earth" award right now.
Does this count for artillery also?
@@DudeInWalmart Maybe? I talked to a Swiss citizen years ago and he said that owning artillery was known, but uncommon. I didn't think to ask him about the laws.
"The devil's paint brush"... what an awesome title for a book on a person who developed machine guns.
Agree, what a striking nickname for the machine gun!
It turned out to be a truth of a type the Europeans themselves had not fully appreciated when they started arming their forces with the mighty Maxim gun!
"European nations began happily and enthusiastically purchasing Maxims." - yeah that's one way to put it.
Yep, or you could just go with Maxim's own quote...
Either way these are weapons of a type that the Europeans had not fully appreciated the devastation they would reek on the field of battle. They got a modern and dependable "bullet hose", but stayed with tactics that intentionally exposed their soldiers to it's direct... consequences.
@@williestyle35 And even earlier...when deployed in colonial brushfire wars...as Hilare Belloc said lol "He stood upon a little mound, Cast his lethargic eyes around, and said beneath his breath: "Whatever happens we have got The Maxim Gun, and they have not"
@@trooperdgb9722 yes, indeed. A memorable quote for sure.
Well, you have to give it to us Americans… come up with most of the individual elements that changed the face of warfare, and is it’s staple to this very day. We never really stop trying to find a better mousetrap, so to speak, when it comes to turning living beings into composting scattered remnants. I myself only recently found out there were fairly extensive landmine warfare in the American civil war, even in Texas!…. ( I knew about sea mines and harbor devices, and the first torpedoes mounted on a spar)Barbed wire, submarines, aeroplanes, machine guns…. The list of deadly party favors goes on and on.
Today it may sound sarcastic or even cynical but it appears war was presented like that in contemporary sources up to and including early WW1.
9:44 "It's not very Swiss because it's not that complicated." 😂 Thanks Ian!
a black powder maxim must have been a hell of a sight, just a massive cloud of smoke
Shooting the gun must have been like chain smoking an entire carton or two of cigarettes in a minute.
I had a thought about that, it might have been "practice" for those to be fired by someone taking directions from a spotter further away position using a telescope, that way it could fire continuously into the cloud of smoke, but if the spotter can see where the bullets land they can give firing directions.
“Hans! We need a smoke screen!”
Hans: “Wait no more…”
Brrrrrrrrt
@@gawkthimm6030 Early machine guns were most definitely considered and used like artillery. It was the only thing they had to compare it to as a crew served weapon.
Also i'm not so sure there was a sight of anything when a black powder maxim is firing lol.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxim_gun#/media/File:HiramMaxim_MaximGun.gif
I’m surprised the Swiss got rid of them. You don’t need to run around with a GPMG when you’re just holding a bunker in the mountains hosing down the mountain passes with a range card refined over 100 years.
My bet is that most are carefully packed away is 'reserve' stockpiles just in case.
Safe bet.
Warfare has slightly changed. With high precision, bunker penetrating bombs those exposed bunkers are not viable anymore. In addition, the mountain passes are not that important anymore, as cargo via air is much more efficient than when the bunkers were built. Lastly, while those are good guns, the newer replacements can fulfill the same role but are much cheaper in production and maintenance.
I can't see the Swiss ever being invaded.
@@thorodin2367 Your first point has some validity. High precision bunker busting bombs can make short work of small bunkers. But they're generally too expensive and too precious to waste on a platoon level asset. They're mostly for HQs buried deep in the earth.
I totally disagree with your second point. Mountain passes are still the main routes into and out of Switzerland. Cargo planes are expensive, have limited capacity, and are vulnerably. Especially flying over the mountains where they can be hit with, ironically, machine guns in bunkers. (Though MANPADs are better still). The idea of invading and sustaining an invasion with cargo planes alone is laughable.
The third point isn't terribly valid. Maxim machine guns are known for their incredible robustness. They're still using Maxim guns in the Ukraine war. There's little doubt they'd be just as mechanically capable today as they would be in 1914. Modern GPMGs are purposely under built so the factories can pump more of them out quicker, with attrition rates built in. They do and will wear out quicker than the old Maxims. Also, GPMPs are built with the intent to provide mobile machine gun fire for offense and an active defense. They're in fact ideal for a nation _attacking_ Switzerland. And they're definitely useful for the Swiss Army so they can mount rapid counter attacks, leaving the heaver Maxims in the bunkers.
I could watch a full hour of Forgotten Weapons ASMR where Ian just sets up guns like this.
I just love the old Maxim guns. The water jacket around the barrel makes the gun so beautiful to look at.
You've probably seen it but (for those who havent) search this channel for "Argentine Brass Maxim" for another hit of what you describe.
Just looking at it you can see the quality of craftsmanship that went into this MG. Thanks for the review of it. 👍👍👍👍
Just like a Swiss watch. The quality is obvious!
Saw a Brit demonstration video with a .303 Vickers, where the gunners knew how to get the bezt use of the tripod; locked down tbe windage and elevation to about 12 incbes above the ground on an oak tree roughly 15 inches across, and proceeded to chop said tree DOWN. IIRC, it took 2 - 3 1/2 belts to "git'er done"....surprisingly clean-cut, too! Start on the edge, 3 rounds, bump it, 4xrounds, bump, 7, bump, etcetera, across the trunk. It. Was. AWESOME!
The Swiss have the most beautiful guns. Great tripod...surprised they didn't include a clock in it. 🤩🤑
That would have been cuckoo...oh wait....
@@JohnSmith-pl2bk cuckoo clocks are german, not swiss.
"Good heavens, look at the time!" *creates a no-mans-land
If the barrel is elevated to the correct position in relation to the horizon, it can be used as a sundial.
@@CsDeathshadow while the original cukoo clocks are indeed German, the "chalet" cuckoo which most refeer to when talking about cuckos is a Swiss style
What a nice example, that spare lock stored in the tri pod just knocked me out ! And I was impressed with how easy Ian fit the A lock in the gun ! Bravo 👏 👏 👏.
Also, a fine machine is easy to work with. Both ways impressive.
Never expected a Forgotten Weapons episode to start with ASMR. A surprise, but a welcome one really
Forgotten Weapons, C&Rsenal etc should have an ASMR stream where they dis/re-assemble old guns.
I wouldn't mind assembly and disassembly/ maintenance vids done in asmr from Ian that would be awesome.
@@948320z absolutely that would be amazing especially if Mae got involved.
But... It's all asmr
Just looked up the results of this auction. Sold for $48,000 which does actually seem like a very good value for such a nice piece.
This auction doesn't happen until May 8. The one you saw was from 5 years ago; an example with ALL the accessories.
@@ForgottenWeaponsso this one will be similar because of inflation
@@shable1436 You never know. Sometimes there isn't much interest and other times you get a few rich guys bidding against each other. It will be interesting to watch.
@@jfess1911the question is: is it a pre ban exempt full speed machine gun? Full auto is banned because of reasons? Fine fine, let me grab my Maxim real quick.
@@vincentvdh9 You are right that there are a lot of things that can affect the price for machineguns. These days, I think most would consider this a collector's item/ piece of art. I am old enough, though, to remember times of relatively inexpensive surplus ammo, when this might have been considered a fancy range toy.
I think Ian has discussed the change in the market as surplus ammo began to dry up and the relative attractiveness and price of belt-feds dropped as opposed to magazine-fed.
I loved that we got to see the set up as the beginning of the video instead of the gun already setup
Ian you demonstrate, with knowledge, history, and the physical "Hands On" functionality, and developmental evolution of all the weapons you cover, very professional and straight forward. A pleasure to follow, understand what you are conveying is a 10, Thanks.
Great Video, I have seen them in Swiss fortifications.
Just to add to the information about the markings on the MG, the metal plaque on the back of the tripod mentions the distance of friendly soldiers on the left and on the right the corresponding setting of the rear sight as to safely shoot above them.
Setting up the tripod and the MG itself just feels so cinematic.
What a treat! Thanks. Spent the last half of the 1980's in Switzerland, and everyone's workmanship was superb. No surprise about the MG being superb.
Great video as always! Just for future use, "Bern" (from Waffenfabrik Bern) is actually pronounced more like "bearn" like a bear, or "bear" with me, or bare-handed, not "burn".
I love the way that the Swiss gentleman tells Mr Maxim about his target a 1200 meters while doing a impersonation of Sean Connery!
Your WW1-ish era machine gun videos are some of my favourites. Glad to see a new one and Swiss no less!
This truly was magnificent. I feel like it's almost a return to the early days of Forgotten Weapons (without that cool intro music). Great work as always.
Seeing Ian sitting on the floor next to this mighty Swiss made Maxim machine gun did remind me a lot of some of his much earlier videos.
The 6,5x55 developed by Norway (and Sweden) was also made to be effective against horses, and have the capability to be used in company or batallion fire against targets 1k away.
A long time ago (1980's) I was inspecting a factory and saw a small machine weaving cloth belts complete with cartridge loops for Maxim MG's. I suppose there are forces somewhere still using these guns. They worked well and still do.
The man I was with said that they still sell all they can make.
Maxim variants are in use in Ukraine right now, complete with heretical attachments like red dot sights.
@@ArchOfficial RED dot sights. There is a tasteless joke somewhere with that punchline.
The MG11's history and evolution showcased brilliantly. The modernization upgrades in 1934/35 truly elevated its performance.
That range table is actually very interesting, since it is made to shoot over the heads of your own troops. The left side says "Distance to troops shot over", whereas the right side says "safety sight setting"; thus making sure you're shooting far enough above the heads of your own guys so as not to endanger them.
7:20 the "one handed" firing was definitely something the Swiss would add as an "improvement". While their main forces might be well dug in to bunkers and the like, with good support and supplies - the Swiss did have some limitations on the manpower side. While most adult males were technically "reserves", they were not an unlimited force that could fill every role. Having a "heavy" machine gun that could be serviced by 3 to 4 soldiers, instead of the better part of a squad was an important consideration for the Swiss. Thank you for this lovely video Ian, it reminds me of your other coverage on similar not so "forgotten" weapons from years back (especially the Mg 08 and other "heavy" machine guns).
Swiss engineering at its finest
... I love that optic. What a magnificent, regal, 1900s tacti-cool optic
i do really love the way, how Ian sitting like that with his legs crossed and visible agitation near some vintage obscure piece of military history.
Thank you as always for showing us the reticles in all the various optics you cover, that sort of thing can be hard if not impossible to find anywhere else. :)
Thank you Ian for showing us this piece of history.
What boys see when putting a camera on a tripod
Totally!!!
🤦🏼♂️
That is a beautiful Maxim. Even the tripod is lovely. Not a single thing was overlooked in developing the platform.
Excellent video, Ian. I love Maxim guns.
The sounds the tripod makes when errected is pure asmr..
Great channel and a story told by a person who has actually read books about it. Thank you.
Did you know that a selection of forgotten weapons videos are available on prime TV? Neither did i until I stumbled across them the other day!
That Tripod must be considered the epitome of "Swiss-ness"! LOL. Having the spare lock in there was amazing!
People know the names Einstein and Edison, but it's really a shame that Hiram Maxim is virtually unknown. The guy was really a genius.
Fantastic quality machinework.
I'm always in awe of how Ian presents and shows/demonstrates weapons, I never get tired of watching.......but that poor laminate flooring took a real good hammering from the tripod mount lol, still, excellent review 👍😁
Nice overview of a great piece of hardware..1911 was quite a year for Swiss ordnance.
The MG-11 as depicted here, the G-11 and K-11 rifle and "carbine" and the thing that was the real magic; the GP-11 cartridge, with its super-slinky bullet.
Genuine GP-11 ammo is impossible to find in shooting quantities and at a sane price, here in the penal colonies, but those of us eccentric K-11and K-31 drivers, "improvise and overcome". with creative hand-loading.
Maybe you could break out the Alpenhorns and Treicheln (cow-bells) and arrange a "Swiss" day on the range with an array of handguns, SMGs, rifles and MGs. The ZfK 55 "sniper" rig is quite a piece of engineering and its FG42-esque muzzle device is a revelation.
do the Gardiner gun next PLEASE, I always liked that liked that gun since I was a boy, simple but effective, plus you can regulate your fire with crank speed!
Worth mentioning that in Indirect Mode the Vickers could do Indirect fire out to 4500 yds+ and when retired from British Service was replaced in the Indirect Role by extra 3" Mortars. Would Love to see a Swiss Night Shoot with Maxims/Vickers from some of their Fortifications lol
That's not a machine gun, that's an artillery piece disguised as a machine gun!
That is pretty much how they were viewed in WWI.
If you read the book by McBride called "The Emma Gees" that's how they used them because they didn't know how to really use them in WWI.
@jfess1911 well it is a 100 lbs lol
@@brettnelson6710 Yup. Kinda difficult for concealed carry.
As commented - that is how they were viewed at the earliest stages of WWI - "light artillery". It would not take long for the Imperial German military, the British Army, and others to quickly figure out that if you spread "heavy machine guns" in units across a front line, very bad things happened to unsupported forces attacking in the open (as was a common battlefield tactic in the beginning).
Thank-you Ian, another super-informative video.
Seems like a good option for home defense.
Thanks for the vid could you do one about the Bergmann MG?
I thank the Lord
That Ian has got
A Maxim gun
But I have not.
The money in your bank account gives a sigh of relief.😮💨
You should have one. Why not ?
Thank you so much Ian
Bless you man
Really cool episode! Fascinating history!
God bless all here.
The 'range table' at 12:36 is something else. It has two parallel marks and tells the shooter what minimum elevation to use (right column: 'Sicherheitsvisier' = safety sight) when overshooting own troops (distance in left column: 'überschossene Truppe') during peacetime training. Generally it's about 600m added elevation but this grows exponentially when your guys are getting nearer to the gun. At 100m distance to your friends the safety sight to be used is 2000m elevation! The Swiss are well known to overshoot own troops regularly during training, that's one reason why they didn't adopt the MG 42 but made their own over-engineered version with the MG 51.
Babe wake up Ian dropped another video…
When I visited the Swiss Guard museum at the Holy See years back I saw a pic of the Swiss Guard in WWII using a gun that looked very close to this.
That would look great in my living room!
The spare lock box is amazingly Swiss.
Thank goodness someone on the design team resisted the urge to put a finely crafted lock on it.
I love the Swiss so much.
I'm in Australia, so there's no chance of buying one of these unless it's deactivated (which would be heresy). I've seen and handled a few Vickers machine guns at dealers and gunsmiths. The Maxim and Vickers are simply gorgeous. I'd love one.
You could probably set your watch by the cyclic rate.
Probably the only Maxim that doesn't vary it's fire rate when it heats up.
It would probably be just as accurate as a shitty Swiss watch to
Beautiful
I love this quick adjustable elevation mechanism reminds me a lot of my gearhead for my camera's tripod. I always found this very neat and thought why weapon tripods didnt use something like this.. well... i was corrected, and it even was my country that did this :D
Makes me remember the video Ian did on the WW1 machine guns a couple years ago. A British artillery officer brought his machine gun group to an exercise (pre-war) where his machine gun raked the cavalry with blanks and theoretically killed most of the unit. His superiors just chided him for not displaying honor.
Meanwhile you have the Swiss who almost immediately saw the potential of this weapon and looked into adopting it.
As alien as this sounds today, this was the era when Scott and his men decided to drag their own equipment and supplies towards the South Pole because there was no honor in using sled dogs to do the hard work. Spoilers: It did not turn out well.
Us brits are dumb. Automatic firearms were rejected by the holiest and mightiest as "gangster weapons" who in their right mind would fight for such a bunch of drips.
The Swiss had a unique situation where their Army was not as large as others and they were only going to be defending their own territory. Heavy weapons in bunkers was the "order of battle" for the majority of Swiss forces - and the reliability of the Maxim was known and appreciated as well.
His superiors were probably horse soldiers.
The traverse slide takes the place of the wooden sticks which a Vickers gunner would put in the ground to mark his arcs out.
As the owner of a K31, which uses the same 7.5x55mm Swiss ammo, I can attest to how much of a pain getting it is here in the states. Gone are the days of $.70/rd GP11 surplus ammo; your only options now are S&B and PP, both of which make decent ammo but which will run you upwards of $1.70 a cartridge. If you want actual match-grade ammunition your only option in the USA is probably Steinel, who will sell you very high-quality ammunition for $2.50/rd. Ouch!
In true Swiss fashion, they went all out in quality here. Even the serial number is a work of art.
The starting part of this video brought me out in sweats....setting up that tripod. During my time at breacon, i had the pleasure of being told to carry the GPMG tripod....i hated that thing more than my ex.....
Does anyone know if any maxims of this version were used in combat? I would be interested to see how the system holds up in those conditions if there are any reports. By all appearances, this seems incredibly precise and well thought out!
This example appears to be a beautifully preserved specimen.
Thanks to the previous owner/s for maintaining this important piece of history!
😁😁😁😁😁
Absolutely beautiful piece of overbuilt early 1900s engineering
Nice gun...for a fixed position I'd prefer the watercooled gun (as long as you keep water handy this will work better than air-cooled) :)
Yeah…until you the guy who has to carry the stuff around to move positions.
In 2011 I shot this machine gun.
It belongs to a friend of mine and is fully matching serials, gun and stand, serial number being #1911.
Any chance there will be an Ian’s tripod roundup in the future? A comparison of different tripods from WW1 and WW2 heavy machines guns.
I want two of these, please.
The modernization upgrades in 1934/35, especially the fully metal belt, show how innovation meets tradition in the world of firearms.
The 1900's DI would instruct the firing line to "hang the lock", as Ian demonstrated.
[it's not a bolt]
Next DI command was to "drop your lock, load the ammo belt".
LOCK AND LOAD
Swiss kit always looks pristine. Never seen the ''mud, the blood or the beer'' I guess.
Now imagine running a pk machine gun with a Swiss mg11 belt, in theory it should work since it's a maxim belt
I would argue the Vickers version was the gold standard for extreme reliability and durability. If the Swiss version had Steampunk brass chasing and clockwork modules, that would be most admirable.
a great fantastically interesting video and machine gun Mr.GJ.that machine gun scope was also fantastic. what was the scope's magnification?have a good one Mr.GJ.btw there is a guy who sings in the st.james cathedral choir in la who looks almost exactly just like you . long hair face the beard & mustache.
The Swiss, good at watch-making, seemingly good at gun-making, too.
I am not a gun aficionado but I do find them interesting.
I liked this video the moment I saw that tripod being assembled, the Swiss know their guns and a Swiss Maxim is probably the Creme de La Creme no matter what anyone else has made!!!!!
Imagine being the sales rep for Gardner with dreams of a big commission and a new boat dancing in your head. Then Maxim shows up and you coin the phrase Gone in 60 Seconds. 😂
Beautiful weapon.
My dad use this one when he was in the Swiss army
Wow that is magnificent.
Could not stop looking at receptible in the background 🙃
Did anybody else hear the Transformers sound-effect in their heads when Ian was setting up the tripod?
Every single swiss gun I've owned was so precisely machined and hardened that with a drop of oil made the action feel like I used grease, buttery smooth.
Maxims are still being used in some countries today. Testament to an excellent design. I think i heard of some being used in Ukrain.
Ian’s next Two Gun event is going to be awesome.
The Maxim gun is still the ultimate machine gun.
Loved the almost ASMR style intro!
I think on a practical matter I would take a Browning M1917a1 first . But this is wonderful for a water cooled mg
I thought I'd clicked on Our Own Devices with that opening scene.
For some bizarre reason, as soon as Ian said it was Swiss, I half expected him to place it on the ground, press a button and for some precision clockwork, to extend the tripod, swivel the gun into place and load it ready for use, all with Ian standing back with his hands on his hips, looking on. Was almost disapointed when he did it all manually! lol.
At first I was surprised at how tame the Swiss-ness the gun was, almost feels wrong for being Swiss. Then I saw that tripod and everything came back into balance.
I'm in love. I want it so badly.