So Much Hate on the Dodge Viper
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- I've been involved deeply in the Viper community for well over a decade now and the automotive community for nearly 40 years, and I have never seen a market as toxic as I have within the Viper world.
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These cars have been criminaly held back for too many years. These vehicles are a hand made supercar and deserve much more than people are giving credit to. They should be way way north of $100K
I think the car staying affordable is better for everyone except those looking to make a profit on their "investment". People buying cars for profit and not enjoyment is the truly toxic part of the market.
It's like not screwing your wife and saving her for the next guy
Amen
Im not against making a profit, but i will enjoy my car and hold the value high until it sells or i get buried in it.
Needs to appear in more pop culture things like movies and TV shows. Just wait for some movie producer to make it a hero car in some movie.
The Viper was such a personal purchase for me that no trends will ever concern me. The car is incredibly unique, I enjoy it every time I drive it, and I'm not really interested in what the general car public thinks. You mentioned my only concern which is with each passing year these cars will be a challenge to find parts for. My car has 140,000 miles on it. That doesn't help my cause. lol
It's great to hear how much you love your Viper! And that's quite the mileage milestone. What year do you have?
@@LifeatSpeed 2001 RT10
Didn't you have yours rebuilt recently? Bad Boyz Garage, right?
That's a great car! And of the gen 2s, one of the better ones (imo) with abs and the larger cooling fan. I still haven't gotten the engine done, but the plan is to have Toddy do the work.
Too many haters out there. The Viper forms are full of negative comments and know it all’s.
Very under rated car. This is beautiful.
Viper is a dream car to own.
Some parts are very $$$ I think over time ppl will sell and prices will go up.
An old school ZR1 is another car that was amazing. I’m not sure of the resale value, but I’d bet those are up there as well. Those things were beautiful and rare.
When you say "held back" what does that mean? Doesn't supply and demand dictate price points in the collector market. IF THE DEMAND IS HIGH the price will reflect that, I would venture to guess that demand hasn't peaked yet or the supply simply overruns the demand.
Have to remember vipers were made in ultra low production numbers so most of us NEVER saw a viper in person never mind drove one growing up hence they were more of a magical beast that had very little connection with the real population. This is reflective in the current market. It was always my dream car but few of us grew up with one.
I'm near Santa Rosa and appreciate your channel! Thank you for the content.
My old stomping grounds! I was actually up that way last weekend for the Peggy Sue Cruise. My brother was showing his 65 SS Chevelle there
These cars are the most underrated sports car you can buy. Super low production numbers, crazy drivetrain power and reliable platform. They should be $100k+++
Like with the mentioned Panteras. The prices on these things are directly related to the health of the economy. I remember seeing a Testarossa going for 35k Canadian following the last financial crisis.
I agree, It's been a really weird market. I've got a 97 Blue and White GTS so I follow the trends as well. I can't believe the number of guys sitting on FB groups commenting how a seller will never get what they want. But, it always comes out that they are going to buy one when the prices will inevitably get to 30k again. haha I think the pressure is building and at some point it's going to have to pop. The cars just too iconic for it not to
i bought a 2001 recently, and one guy who lost out on the sale was mad that i wont sell it for less than $95k. telling people how much i paid for the car as though i would lower my sell price.
Same thing happens with the Gallardo. It attracts a younger crowd and the loud few who say the cars should only be worth 80, because that's what the crappiest, higher mileage cars sold for at one point. Everyone wants one (Gallardo/Viper), so they talk down on them to keep the market cheap. Concerning the Viper specifically, I think the market did jump during covid (as did many other cars) and there are so many low mileage, clean examples that flooded the market at once that it hindered even higher prices. When I bought my Viper it was almost easier to find a car with 30,000 miles. Too many cars have been stored and not driven it keeps the price lower because nothing is rare about a low mileage example. Another example, like the Pantera someone else mentioned, is my Lamborghini Jalpa. Could have bought one for 30k for years. Not until recently did they begin to climb and now routinely hit 130k. The Viper will have it's day. More just need to get "used up" before it happens.
Great point! Similar thing happened with the Dino, for decades no one wanted the red headed step child from Ferrari and recently they've started to skyrocket.
96 B&W GTS owner as well (although UGR TT). I don't follow the market and haven't since I bought the car around 15 years ago, but I would've guessed average examples would be selling for $80k and real pristine examples closer to 2x that. Either way, not all that many Vipers were built compared to most of the others you mentioned, and it was a childhood dream car for many, so I'm confident at least the gen 2 and 5 coupes will have their day in time.
That sounds like a beast of a 96 you have!😎
The Gen V ACRs with low miles are crazy money....
@Bansha1977 that they are! A lot more than I expect based on their age
@@LifeatSpeed I tend to think the Final Viper actually was a fully developed "best of" version of the car. unlike say the Mustang or Camaro that many consider "the BEST version" was the original, the Viper took alot longer to fully "flower" or develop. I own a 1996 Gen2 and there are ALOT of things i'd change, and alot of things that make me scratch my head as to "Why did they do that"....but most of which can be answered by the "Cost Concern" sort of limit. But it's still rather disappointing in many ways (single piston rear calipers...really?). the Gen5 left nothing on the table...except maybe some Horsepower and maybe a cheaper V8 version(which a V8 version to many would be blasphemy, but Id would have bought a Gen5 V8 if it was 80k).
I have 2001 RT10 with 35000 miles, I bought it in 2016 for $30000. Now in 2024 may be I can sell for $50000 if I am lucky. But when you have a viper and you drive it, you do not want to sell it.
I think a large factor is simply that the supply is meeting the demand. If you look at the Supra, for example, the reason why well-preserved examples command such high prices is because it has gotten increasingly harder to find them. A consequence of their aftermarket support is that many/most of them were modified and driven hard. When the Viper was released it was basically a supercar so I would think that most of them lived most of their lives in garages or as weekend cars, which helped to preserve more examples.
This is actually a pretty good point. Thanks for sharing your thoughts
I think the difference between the Viper and many other cars is, they’re not something that people can relate to
How many people had one back in the day, or not many people had something similar back in the day
The Viper is a unique piece.
It’s not a muscle car. But it’s not necessarily an exotic either.
Kind of has its own niche
Therefore, I think a lot of people look at them and go, those are really cool cars… but they don’t necessarily want to own one
And desirability definitely drives market price
I also wonder if the price wars/dealer greed when they were new has some effect on this
I was working in the dealerships when these cars came out, and I remember being disgusted by what some dealerships were doing to the price of these cars. So there could be some negative juju associated in peoples minds that keep them from wanting one. That would also affect pricing.
That's an interesting perspective, and could very much be a factor. It has the rarity of a lot of exotic cars, but not as much exposure as Ferrari, Porsche or Lamborghini.
I didn't even remember that show but I found the car and it was beautiful.
I just saw that the Viper from the TV show sold for $141,000.
Ford GTs took off when they started hitting 300mph in Texas mile events, gen 5 cars took off when Calvo destroyed everything on the street, 70s 911s took off when RWB and Stinger became mainstream. Some food for thought.
Oh that's an interesting perspective. Thanks for that
Your comments are well taken on the Viper market. It reminds me of the Pantera. The Pantera was definitely an American mid-engine exotic of the early 70's. Yet, the market price on Panteras was dormant for many decades. And only in the last decade has the market started to move upward. Hopefully our Viper market is better.
That's an excellent comparison. I forgot about that in the Pantera market.
In my opinion, they’re not demanding a premium because the new viper models were made generation three generation for generation five so the market has to price the older vipers in comparison to the new ones where the skyline was made and then they stopped making it and they discontinued it for a long time you can’t really compare the older skylines to the skylines the new skylines have essentially becoming an American car. Where is the old skylines have to be imported from Japan?
the closest/most similar car I can think of is a Pantera...Panteras only took off around 2010 (I remember a Fast and loud episode where they bought a bar find, non running but complete car for like 12k) , now you cant buy stock wheels and glass for that.
I've owned 10+ fox mustangs and they are not worth anything near the prices right now, a car that handles like a school bus, can't stop to save it's life and has 225 hp? But there's a cult following around them because of the age demographic we all grew up with them and finding a clean fox that's not been crashed is rare.
I am 55 years old and lived through the era of the 80's/90's cars. I owned a speed shop from the mid 80's to the mid 90's so I was deep into it. I owned a gen 4 and a gen 5 Viper. I hated the gen 4 car and loved the gen 5 car. For some reason I lust after the Buick GN and the 5.0 Fox Body Mustang, those were the cars to have in the day. Those were the cars that were at all the street races plus the older muscle cars of the 60's/70's with a mix of some RX7's/Supra's/300 ZX twin Turbos etc... I do not want an early Viper, I just don't. I would like to add a 5.0 Mustang and a GN to the collection. I currently own 3 muscle cars a 72 Duster 340, 72 Olds 442 Convertible (factory 455 car), 71 Mach 1, plus a 2016 Corvette Callaway Z06, and a 2020 Challenger Hellcat WB Redeye. I have not bought either a 5.0 Mustang or the GN for 2 reasons, my wife does not like them and I am out of garage space.
People want to relive their memories, everyone rode in a 5.0 Mustang and a Turbo Buick back in the day, and made great memories in them. Very few rode in a Viper. The magazines were not too kind to the Viper back in the day either, they were not like the old Shelby 427 Cobras which were, and still are, legendary.
on
it is still my dream car, and i have the cash to buy one, but parts availability is the reason i don't buy one. I want to enjoy the car knowing that parts are easy to get if something breaks, so it doesn't turn into garage art.
What i have never understood is why its any benefit for a cars value to skyrocket. A true fan/enthusiast has the car their whole life for the most part so value shouldnt matter other than being insured for enough to be able to replace it in the unlikely event of a total loss. Ive never been a fan of people flipping these sorts of cars for investment purposes because cars are meant to be driven and enjoyed as they are machinery which need to be oiled and run. By having their value increase makes cost of parts increase and cost to insure increase taking the enjoyment of owning a car like this away. Also depriving those who may have a dream of owning something like this but not being able to afford to get into the market. The thing Ive learnt from having perculiar taste in older cars is that if you outlay a massive amount on the initial purchase of the car what is left to pay for all the rare spares and parts? Not to mention if you pay an astronomical figure for a car to purchase you cannot even get parts required for repairs? Its risky. Its scary. It takes the fun out of ownership. This applies also to the recent Nissan Skyline, Fox Body Mustangs, Grand National GNXs and also Porsches.
What is everyone elses thoughts??
I think the fox body comparison is exactly the reason why these cars haven’t appreciated. It’s because people just never drove them enough and didn’t beat them up they collected them so there’s just more nice kept examples out on the market than ratty parts cars
And obviously if there’s a large amount of nice examples to be bought the nice example price will be lower
Really they are not really desired. That’s really what it comes down to the newer vipers that you see at Texas 2K those are sought after.
its a niche market... ranging from the high mileage base R/T10 with no windows to low mileage ACRs and examples with the seat wrap still on... Still big boy money for a nice driver. I have to admit, I was sort of shocked at how much money you wanted for your car with a bad motor. The blue/white and the red/white definitely seem to command a premium as well. Covid obviously added some complexity to the market as well.
I looked , but at the end of the rainbow lay a Corvette. From C6 up ,there is your demand , especially Z cars.
Vipers just aren’t sought after. A Fox body mustang is beautiful. That’s why Vipers aren’t going for more. They were cool when they came out and had V-10s, but they’re not a car people are really into.
Hey, i have a 02 graphite metalic GTS 1of60 limited edition, only 181 ever made in this color. Im sure gts value will go up, i dont say soon, but they will slowly. 5 years ago you could buy a gts around 45-50k. About 2-3 years ago, doubled it. So everybody who spent 80k+ will not sell under 120-140. I think in the next 5 years the gts (in blue or graphite metalic color) will reach at least 120k.
I would like to ask something else, you have both viper and ferrari, all the time when i take out my viper, many people are waving me, telling how they love this car, how extremely rare to see, even taking pictures. My friend told me (he had a viper before a ferrari) if you have ferrari, very few people stop you to say that how cool your ferrari. I asked, why? He said, he thinks, if you have a viper, you are cool, but if you have a ferrari, you are probably an ashole… they dont want to stare you…
What do you thing about this? Thanks
So that's an excellent question! And something that pops in my head everytime I take the Ferrari out. So for reference I've owned Vipers since 2011 and the Ferrari since December 2022. The Viper definitely get a fair amount of attention and mostly positive, the Ferrari on the other hand gets a ton more attention than the Viper! Like it's not even close, and I'm sure the Ferrari being yellow makes a difference. Most interactions I have with people have been incredibly positive, and I do my best to help change the stereotypes thay Ferrari owners are jerks. Most of the negative interactions with folks that have been negative have been online with people who've made assumptions about me based on a picture I've posted of the car. One other thing I've found interesting about owning the Ferrari compared to the Viper, is with the Viper some of my friends, family and neighbors tell people they know someone with a Viper, but with the Ferrari, everyone I know it seems is telling everyone they know that I have a Ferrari, and I think that's because as much as I hate to admit it (because it's not why I bought it), Ferrari is a status symbol almost more than it is a car at this point.
i took my viper to cars and coffee as a spectator, and there were a lot of ferraris there, and 2 vipers including mine. mine was the only gen 2, and not even near the staging area. it got a lot more attention than the ferraris. i think it was because i let people touch it and sit inside. i like that i can treat it like a regular car, and i can work on it myself. it is so approachable.
📢 This Demographic doesn't have the Wealth JDM does Unfortunately 😢
What do you mean “toxic”?
If I had to guess 🤔, the market is now at the fickle whims of the rich people because they have so many choices out there. The average enthusiast, at this point is probably all but priced out of this market or worse a victim of the recession.
Have you checked demand in foreign markets like the middle east, that's usually where the money is.