This wasn't even close in my view. Kwan was literally textbook flawless, while Irina's skate had glaring problems. They really wanted a new leader I think, but had to give it to Kwan again bc of how perfect she skated.
@@jjh2456 I agree with you. But my point was that the other two had to have been insane to NOT give Kwan 1st place. And what I love about youtube is that you can go back and see all their dirty biases.
@@lancewilkinson4192 it was obvious during this point in her career there was a sort of bias against Kwan. I know in 2000 and 2001 they didn’t want Kwan to win, but it was obvious that she was the best on the night that they really couldn’t deny her.
@@Seresu1Michelle extremely consistently fully rotated her jumps. Either she was on and they were fantastic, or she was off and it would be very obvious. She didn't cheat jumps
I always found her to be a better spinner than jumper. She telegraphs her jumps and while they have great height, they dont have a nice run out. But, she is very likeable and skates with a lot of heart.
only remarkable thing about her jumps was the height. it's so weird to think that entire world has the image of Irina being incredibly athletic jumper, while Michelle being the more artistic performer while Irina never had any consistency with her 3-3s, and even while doing 3Lz or 3F, those jumps were too big for her to control the landings. What also bothers me how she insisted on doing -3Lo combos even though she was doubling like 90% of them
+troy0515 You mean, hired someone to choreograph all of her programs! It was the same issue with Maria Butyrskaya! That is why none of their programs except one here and there, ever seemed well constructed and most of times were all disjointed. Now, if you look carefully and on slow-mo, both of her 3loops were under rotated, hence classified only as 2Loops. Weirdly enough, the broadcaster don't seem to catch this after the slow motion replay.
Russian women in general have bad choreography and it's still the same today. strange since pairs and ice dancers from that country are amazing and even the men. the women don't pay attention to lines, pacing, edge work, proper posture and positions. There skating is a hot mess and this is the country with a tradition of ballet. I just don't get it.
@@vistaprime Nowadays with Eteri's students having bad programs/not paying attention to edges, posture etc. we can 'justify' it by the fact that her skaters are leading, those programs work because all of her skaters are constantly medaling and receiving high pcs. however, with Slutskaya and Butyrskaya it never worked that way, they were always behind chasing Michelle, Sasha, Shizuka. And that's ridiculous to me why no one pushed Slutskaya to develop artistically, or work on consistency with her 3-3.
First lutz weak landing. Triple loop underorated on the 1st combo. Triple loop on 2 feet on the 2nd combo. The 2nd lutz is in the 1st part.even if she had big high on her jumps, good edge on the lutz and big courage this programm was not a success...and artisticly there was no comparison with kwan. Michele was far away better.... 5.7 and 5.7. Kwan 5.8 and 5.9. I would have put butyrskaya in front of slutskaya on the free
One of the most over-scored skaters of all time. A very sloppy program in both jumps and artistry. In her defense, I don't think the choices made in regards to her music, choreography, etc. did her justice. Her jumps are high, but are telegraphed and not great flow coming out most of the time. To me, she is a great spinner and her overall demeanor is enchanting. Her 2006 Olympic short program shows when given proper conditions, how good she is. But, in this instance, the judging was overly generous.
I agree. I think if Irina had a better vehicle that more effectively played to her strengths and hid her choreographic weaknesses (like the spiral sequence, yeesh), she could've won this more convincingly. A long program version of her well-done "Culture" or "Totentanz" might've done the job, I think.
She was one of the most gifted skaters in terms of raw talent but never fully developed it. If she invested more effort into improving her artistry and choreography and stopped telegraphing her jumps she could’ve been even better.
Technically mor difficult but sloppy and just unrefined compared to Kwan’s. I’ll give Irina a little more credit than Kwan for the technical part even with the shaky and sloppy landings, just because her combos are more difficult than Kwan’s, even though Kwan’s GOE easily makes up for it. But then Irina’s presentation is way behind Kwan’s. So overall, Kwan still wins.
I always liked her spunk.......... and you may hate me for this.......but.... Knowing what we know now regarding Russia and doping - anyone else question her Vasculitis and heart issues in 2004? Reports were she almost died, then in 2005 she returns stronger than ever and is undefeated all season? Hate that I'm even thinking this, but given Russia's history it wouldn't suprise me.
If she had not attempted that 2nd 3-3 she would have won it. A 3lutz-2toe would have been fine with a solo 3loop preceded by the 3 turns would have done it.
Michelle connected with her music way better than Irina! You can slap any music onto any of Irina's program and it would look all the same. Look at all the different elements (spread eagle, Charlotte, reverse camel spin, differing layback positions, forward and backward spirals, etc...) Kwan has incorporated into her programs through out the years in addition to the required jumps.
I don’t know why anyone would choose Don Quixote for a figure skating competition program. It’s purposefully inelegant. I don’t know what the commentator was smoking saying after Michelle’s skate that Irina had the edge in presentation.
As much as I loved Michelle's 2001 Worlds program, I wished Irina had won this year. Her footwork, spins and jump combinations were definitely more difficult although she underrotated and doubled footed her triple loops and the lutz landing was rather not beautiful. But overall her program had more content although Kwan's was more polished and IMO more memorable but still I wished they rewarded Irina the Gold this year.
Oh please. She has no basic skating skills, like Surya Bonaly. Her greatest asset was how beautifully high her jumps were. But there is no choreography here, no connection to the music and no beautiful positions. If you call this "polish" than so is a heard of angry elephants in a finely appointed dining room.
This wasn't even close in my view. Kwan was literally textbook flawless, while Irina's skate had glaring problems. They really wanted a new leader I think, but had to give it to Kwan again bc of how perfect she skated.
Кван самая скучная фигуристка в истории
The entrances to almost all the triples are telegraphed to death.
+Matt G. LIke the Paul Revere of jumpers.
Love how she just quietly stormed away at the end. I think this was a good performance for its time, but not enough to over take Kwan.
They would absolutely call her for underrotation and traveling on her combo spins today...
Sorry, Irina...not even close.
Wow I never realized her Sal combo was very under on the loop. The boot landed forward. Wasn’t even close
I do love Michelle. I also like Irina. Michelle and Irina were the greatest skaters in their era.
all the judges should have had kwan in front of her...
Jimmy Seraphin 7 of the 9 did.
@@jjh2456 Two were missing.
@@lancewilkinson4192 doesn’t matter. 7 of 9 gave Kwan the victory. It actually wasn’t close. Kwan won by a large margin here.
@@jjh2456 I agree with you. But my point was that the other two had to have been insane to NOT give Kwan 1st place. And what I love about youtube is that you can go back and see all their dirty biases.
@@lancewilkinson4192 it was obvious during this point in her career there was a sort of bias against Kwan. I know in 2000 and 2001 they didn’t want Kwan to win, but it was obvious that she was the best on the night that they really couldn’t deny her.
If she competed in this new scoring system, all her jumps would have been marked down. They're all under rotated.
Just those two triple loops. Michelle would have ended up with a lot more underrotated jumps.
She also would have gotten no credit for that second three jump combination.
michelle rarely underrotated jumps...she may have gotten a call on the lutz edge but she always rotated her jumps.
@@Seresu1 Tara Lipinski would have ended up with the most underrotated jumps.
@@Seresu1Michelle extremely consistently fully rotated her jumps. Either she was on and they were fantastic, or she was off and it would be very obvious. She didn't cheat jumps
She skates like a truck driver compared to Michelle Kwan
I always found her to be a better spinner than jumper. She telegraphs her jumps and while they have great height, they dont have a nice run out. But, she is very likeable and skates with a lot of heart.
only remarkable thing about her jumps was the height. it's so weird to think that entire world has the image of Irina being incredibly athletic jumper, while Michelle being the more artistic performer while Irina never had any consistency with her 3-3s, and even while doing 3Lz or 3F, those jumps were too big for her to control the landings. What also bothers me how she insisted on doing -3Lo combos even though she was doubling like 90% of them
She traveled a lot on the ice on her spins. Not so great.
I can see Irina skated with her heart, just like Michelle. That's why I like Irina.
I love Irina but it was just sloppy.
lots of energy and power, but she should have hired someone to choreograph her program
+troy0515 You mean, hired someone to choreograph all of her programs! It was the same issue with Maria Butyrskaya! That is why none of their programs except one here and there, ever seemed well constructed and most of times were all disjointed. Now, if you look carefully and on slow-mo, both of her 3loops were under rotated, hence classified only as 2Loops. Weirdly enough, the broadcaster don't seem to catch this after the slow motion replay.
+Incredible Mann Underrotation of jumps was not considered pre IJS.
+Incredible Mann re: never getting called out by judges for under-rotation ...She got a pass because of who she was.
Russian women in general have bad choreography and it's still the same today. strange since pairs and ice dancers from that country are amazing and even the men. the women don't pay attention to lines, pacing, edge work, proper posture and positions. There skating is a hot mess and this is the country with a tradition of ballet. I just don't get it.
@@vistaprime Nowadays with Eteri's students having bad programs/not paying attention to edges, posture etc. we can 'justify' it by the fact that her skaters are leading, those programs work because all of her skaters are constantly medaling and receiving high pcs. however, with Slutskaya and Butyrskaya it never worked that way, they were always behind chasing Michelle, Sasha, Shizuka. And that's ridiculous to me why no one pushed Slutskaya to develop artistically, or work on consistency with her 3-3.
First lutz weak landing. Triple loop underorated on the 1st combo. Triple loop on 2 feet on the 2nd combo. The 2nd lutz is in the 1st part.even if she had big high on her jumps, good edge on the lutz and big courage this programm was not a success...and artisticly there was no comparison with kwan. Michele was far away better.... 5.7 and 5.7. Kwan 5.8 and 5.9. I would have put butyrskaya in front of slutskaya on the free
One of the most over-scored skaters of all time. A very sloppy program in both jumps and artistry. In her defense, I don't think the choices made in regards to her music, choreography, etc. did her justice. Her jumps are high, but are telegraphed and not great flow coming out most of the time. To me, she is a great spinner and her overall demeanor is enchanting. Her 2006 Olympic short program shows when given proper conditions, how good she is. But, in this instance, the judging was overly generous.
I agree. I think if Irina had a better vehicle that more effectively played to her strengths and hid her choreographic weaknesses (like the spiral sequence, yeesh), she could've won this more convincingly. A long program version of her well-done "Culture" or "Totentanz" might've done the job, I think.
She was one of the most gifted skaters in terms of raw talent but never fully developed it. If she invested more effort into improving her artistry and choreography and stopped telegraphing her jumps she could’ve been even better.
How does that mess merit 5.9s ?
corruption
@@hannibaljustincase9985 BINGO.
Her presentation didn't give her the title.
She executed 2 different 3 jumps combo’s which the ISU rules state only 1 3 jump combo is allowed in the free skate.
What a telegraphed flip jump
Technically mor difficult but sloppy and just unrefined compared to Kwan’s. I’ll give Irina a little more credit than Kwan for the technical part even with the shaky and sloppy landings, just because her combos are more difficult than Kwan’s, even though Kwan’s GOE easily makes up for it. But then Irina’s presentation is way behind Kwan’s. So overall, Kwan still wins.
I always liked her spunk.......... and you may hate me for this.......but....
Knowing what we know now regarding Russia and doping - anyone else question her Vasculitis and heart issues in 2004? Reports were she almost died, then in 2005 she returns stronger than ever and is undefeated all season? Hate that I'm even thinking this, but given Russia's history it wouldn't suprise me.
I believe she was on meldonium in 2005/2006
Look at that face! She's my favourite Russian skater
great performance, great competitor and accurately scored.
5.9 really?
If she had not attempted that 2nd 3-3 she would have won it. A 3lutz-2toe would have been fine with a solo 3loop preceded by the 3 turns would have done it.
Michelle connected with her music way better than Irina! You can slap any music onto any of Irina's program and it would look all the same. Look at all the different elements (spread eagle, Charlotte, reverse camel spin, differing layback positions, forward and backward spirals, etc...) Kwan has incorporated into her programs through out the years in addition to the required jumps.
I don’t know why anyone would choose Don Quixote for a figure skating competition program. It’s purposefully inelegant. I don’t know what the commentator was smoking saying after Michelle’s skate that Irina had the edge in presentation.
It was the right call!! It was sloppy …
Who won here?
Kwan
Чемпионка
Irinaの演技についてここまでも批判的なコメントが多いことに心を痛めている。多くの人は、ミスに過度に反応しすぎて、彼女が挑戦しているテクニックの難しさとその実施の素晴らしさを見落としている。明らかに彼女は素晴らしい演技をした。ジャンプは非常に高いし、レイバックスピンの難しいポジションのコンビネーションは息を飲むようだった。ジャンプの回転不足は確かにあるかもしれないが、2つ目の3Lz-3Lo
9 an ok
As much as I loved Michelle's 2001 Worlds program, I wished Irina had won this year. Her footwork, spins and jump combinations were definitely more difficult although she underrotated and doubled footed her triple loops and the lutz landing was rather not beautiful. But overall her program had more content although Kwan's was more polished and IMO more memorable but still I wished they rewarded Irina the Gold this year.
But Kwan was cleaner. It was the polish that Kwan had that was lacking in this performance.
Oh please. She has no basic skating skills, like Surya Bonaly. Her greatest asset was how beautifully high her jumps were. But there is no choreography here, no connection to the music and no beautiful positions. If you call this "polish" than so is a heard of angry elephants in a finely appointed dining room.
You only get credit for what you complete
she was lucky to get silver ahead of Hughes and Butyrskaya.
barkingtree88 Except you are wrong and clearly didn't watch
She has better artistry here than 2002 olympics.