Why I prefer using the Lower D's over Side D's
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2020
- There are a few arborist harnesses on the market that now come with lower D rings as well as the traditional side D rings. In this video Dan talks about why he almost exclusively uses the lower D rings on his TreeMotion harness rather than using the side D's.
Have you tried both the lower and side D's? In which situation do decide to use lower and side?
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Thank you for the explanation. You've taught me the fundamentals and a variety of great techniques since the very beginning of my climbing adventures, for which I'm very grateful, and I always look forward to your content. Nice to see you back on, been a while. Cheers mate.
Glad you like it man, and that you’ve learnt a bit from the videos, always appreciate the comment!
You have to figure out for yourself, exactly how YOU feel.... no one can "teach" you how you feel.
Great video, thanks so much! I now will look into getting a new saddle!
Have you tried to use them both? I use use a Steel-Core lanyard and a soft lanyard. Often use them both: it gives some real comfort! I also use combinations with one end attached low and one high: you can play with the configuration😎💪
I built/ use an omni style lanyard to perform a similar function. I can have a standard horizontal lanyard if I need one, use part of the tail to tend my friction device when ascending, or use the tail as a secondary tie in or mini climb line when ascending or working. The extra slack takes a little getting used to but the versatility is worth it.
I’ll have to try this, sounds Time consuming but I like comfort..
I like having two fliplines. One steel core that is easy to flip and throw and takes a beating and also has the added safety. An extra detachable one to use as a mini highline.
Two lanyards are great for bypassing branches on isolated leaders where the highline isn't really helping or is far away and using a main highline to flip as a second lanyard means it cops a bit of a hiding and gets worn out.
Bit strange with the new configuration but think I'll stick with one high and one low. Probably stick with steel core on traditional Ds like with an older harness.
I watch this yesterday put it to good use today, thanks man.
Glad to hear it! 👍
Great video Dan, as I have said before I got this too off you a couple year back and have the same been using the lower D's it does take a little while to get use to but I love it. A lot less back pain after being on a spar too
That was the main reason I went to only ever using the lower Ds, lower back is too important to just accept the pain that being on side D’s give you.
Been making a point of using the lower Ds more on spar work. Often used them for general climbing but never felt right on spurs. Now that I have some time on the lowers, I only ever use the uppers to help balance on leaners or to twist myself around for better cut positioning. Thanks! Much better comfort once I got over the learning curve.
I also have a evo tree motion saddle and I'm trying to strictly use my lowers. Started on sides and tough habit to break. Not even on topic but I love how you enunciate your words. :p
Interesting stuff, I still climb on a old school Buckingham saddle with side D's only. Haven't been sold on the newer saddles yet.
great information ..
Good point to share 👍
Cheers bro🤙
I climb for fun and love my Treemotion S Light!!!
Good info, thanks, On skinny spars I find the upper Ds to be more stable with less tendency to swing side to side...
Treeken LLC same here so far. The skinny stems seem to have very little margin between balance and unbalanced
This could be true, but also if being on the lower D’s is not the norm it will undoubtedly feel a little strange, I think it just takes putting a bit of time into this technique and it will feel normal
Interesting use of akimbo if I saw right. If money is not driving the driving decision, I bet it performs beautifully. Thank you
Couldn't get used to that harness, been using the skylotec kolibri for a while, the best harmess I ever used was the edelrid tree magic 1, bought the 2nd release and it wasn't the same...maybe I need to spend more time adjusting the treemotion and give it more of a chance
I love the lower D rings, and I agree with everything you said in the video. Just one question that you Kind of hinted at towards the end; I have a tendency to step through the loop my lanyard forms while moving around when it is stored on the lower D's. Any advice on mitigating this? Also love your content.
I know what you mean. When I’m pruning a tree or removing, I find that movement between each cut isn’t that much, so not an issue with getting caught up. But if you are deadwooding and you make a cut, then you need to climb and limb walk to get the next piece, this is where I would decide to stow the lanyard on the side. For me it’s just reading/planning the climb. I hope this makes some sense
I wonder if they have it here in Pennsylvania because our use wood chips all the time and really would like a huge pile to use whenever I want to I have a gigantic garden and wood chips are great!!!
I have an Onyx saddle. There is a "swing-set" on the bridge. I always hook lanyard there. But the steel core lanyard goes on the Ds, which are on the side. Fortunately, I don't do a lot of tree take-down involving spikes. I think I need to learn single rope mechanisms. But I'm having fun enough so far.
Why "fortunately"?
this video cured my back pain
I wouldn’t use the lower ds for blocking down because they don’t give you so much triangulation. The wider point on your hips naturally gives you more stability. Do you guys not use this when you work or do you find it’s a disadvantage? Great video
I always prefer the lower D’s as it reduces a lot of the strain on the lower back. Over time this will likely cause back issues which Id like to avoid at all costs. After a bit of practice on the lower Ds, blocking down a stem feels just as normal as on the side Ds.
It is all personal preference though.
Climbing Arborist thanks for replying with regard to this angle, maybe I should give it another try with a bit of practice
It’s like anything, if it’s different to what you are used to if feels a little strange. But put a few hours on the lower D’s and it becomes the new normal, and the new normal creates a lot less stress on the lower back. Definitely worth giving another try 👍
Yes and no. I like both, depends on the lean, diameter, position for cutting ect. Mix and match for even more fun! Overall the lowers are better for me, once I gave them some more time. If they do feel strange, just switch back...
What are some saddles that are designed specifically for this?
That is saddles without the upper D's at all, and just a bridge and lower's?
Thank you very much, Mr. Holiday.
I’m reminded of the proverb, “Why try to see the end of your nose when your friend has a mirror?”
Very much appreciate the boost in wisdom.
👍
Lower D's are great for work positioning out on limbs etc. Using both for chogging down a stem is great, the stability of the side D's sharing the support of the lower D's.
Hi i am just trying to start out climbing trees. I have a the min a full body harness. I just can't seem to make it work on me as soon as i take the weight i lay in a sleep mode not sitting in the harness. is it the harness issue or is it because i have a big beer belly ( fat) lol
For climbing I like lowers but for spar work I find more stable control in the uppers
I'm waiting for a Crazy Boxer climbing harness. Hope they have a model with lower D's.
🤣🤣 it’s in the design phase
Seeing this 2 years later and very true. As a somewhat newer climber, having attachment points anywhere above the waist connected to the side D's sucks. Lower D's are the ticket. If you are connected straight in front of you, side D's aren't too bad then.
Where did you purchase your saddle
Discovered that the other day. Very nice, those D's :-)
Great addition to the arborist harness thanks to those geniuses at TreeMagineers
@@ClimbingArborist The only thing I like more about the side D's is when you're not using your flipline, It's more 'out of the way'.. Got a lot of stuf dangling between the legs when you leave the flipline on the lower D's... (no pun intended) ;-)
Hi Dan,
I tried the lower Ds for my lanyard yesterday and it was a game changer! Why didn't I try it when you posted this video????
Btw: I use a tree Austria 3.2 from Haberkorn, and the lower Ds are textile and perfect for the lanyard carabiners
Honest question, several YT arborists (not in any way taking any bonafides away from you guys - just an identifier) speak highly of the Sequoia SRT but I do not see any arborists who choose that harness. Is there a reason why it is not used more often in these videos? By the way, I love this channel’s content and am soaking up all of this valuable information!!
Personally, I really dislike the Sequoia harness, it provides no rigidity or back support, it just folds around your waist and squeezes to an uncomfortable level. There are a bunch of much better options.
Which harnesses do you recommend? Trying to move on from an old school weaver and be more comfortable.
Why are so many tree motion harnesses for sale on eBay second hand ? Have they lost they’re popularity ? I need a new harness very soon.
Use upper d's for spurring up the tree, but almost always use lower d's any other time
I agree and hanging with the upper D's starts to hurt my back.
@@robertstroh4803 that's because you're not supposed to hang in upper D's mate
Can this option be made on the Newtribe Onyx? I noticed today that there was a lot of pressure on my back using the side D's..especially when I had to hang on my lanyard in certain positions.
I'm noticing a trend in this thread, whereas a lot of (ostensibly young?) climbers are mentioning "pressure", "discomfort", etc.. I am surmising that it's a generational thing....older guys just tighten thier saddle and do the job.....
What's wrong with using the attachment points on your rope bridge???? I have a Rook on my bridge, with three steel thimbles on three short dyneema slings. Comfortable as hell.
Been climbing for 7 years...why have I stuck with side D’s. Climbing next on Monday. Switching to lower Ds thanks v much Dan
Alex Cannon careful with your balance to start with, you may find you need more control from your feet/spikes from the different way the harness reacts
Awesome Alex, I’m glad. Could open up the world of the lower D’s to you. As Ali ray implies, you should definitely take it easy as it does feel a little different especially when on a spar, you feel a little further away with a slightly different feel. It doesn’t take long to become normal though, just like anything you do over and over again. It will certainly be a smart investment in your lower back health. 👍
Climbing Arborist nice one. I always choke my main line on to the stem for chogging down (as shown recently on assessor led course). Will go slower to go quicker. Thanks for all the advice over the years. All the best to all on the channel.
I feel a tremendous force trying to flip me upside down from my middle d ring. I have to tie a piece of paracord to the back of my saddle then over my shoulder and hook it to my climb line while climbing. Is this normal?
Doesn't _SOUND_ normal....🙄
Samuel Luria what I mean is my center of gravity is above where my bridge is. If you are hanging by your climb line and not holding on to anything, would gravity rotate you upside down?
@@michaelpace1075 - That would be comparable to not having any ass whatsoever (nor suspenders) and having your saddle slip down to the middle of your thighs on a long hot day.....you have to rely on balance(experience), and leg strength.
When you’re using the lower D's chogging down it looks like it’s pulling the harness down off of you where the back support is nonexistent .
"Back support" is for girls....
I wholeheartedly agree. The lower D’s really force you to sit down.
when im on 30 40 foot limb walks i use my left d ring then i clip to my lower right dring it holds my about the same angle as the limb and if im spuring up section of trunk i use the waist d rings i use the lower d ring if im suspended on them like leaning out and achieving a goodish work position
I love chipdrop
Me too, it’s awesome 🤙
Shit i might have to give one of these a try i been getting away from climbing because of my back. Climbings a young mans game and i just figured im getting too old for this
I still prefer double DD's ;)
I will start using Chipdrop when they start delivering chips to the worksite....and I mean the potato kind.
Lower D’s all the way. Upper D’s, extra carabiner storage 😆
When you have too much money and start using an Akimbo on your lanyard... 😎
Holy CRAP!!!! That's just silly!!!
Good eye by the way
@@samuelluria4744 it actually a great idea. You will have a second srt system for work positioning. I will buy it.
Its because thats all its good for!! The only time I use my Akimbo is on my cpt.hook..roperunner ftw imo..
TIL that I bought the right harness (with lower D's). Woo hoo
Sounds like upper Ds = equivalent of tree climbing wedgy!
Your arguments are silly and even hilarious when you suspended yourself from the side ds...And when someone inexperienced cuts their harness off and dies we'll blame you. The side ds are a backup separated from the bridge if the bridge were to be cut or the webbing for the bridge the ds and a lanyard are still there, hopefully. Can we at least try and get home in one piece, doing it right and not making it up as we go because of comfort, if you're not comfy, get another harness. Adjustable side ds, yes they make em.
Just read the Treemotion manual. It'll say the same as mentioned in the video ;)
I'll say it shorter : Toughen up.
@@MeltingFingers - Maybe climbing in a saddle that requires a manual is not optimal...(?)
@El Jay I don't understand your point. I'm unexperienced but if I were to cut of my bridge it doesn't matter if you have lanyarded in on the lower or upper D:s. On my harness (Edelrid Treerex) the lower D:s share the weight points with the upper. If I would cut that connection in the same time as the bridge is cut I'll have a bigger problem with my leg half way cut of. I also find the upper D:s useful sometime using double lanyards. So I can't see the sillyness in the argument from Climbing Arborist. I've learned a lot from his videos. All the best.