Sage (Breville) Oracle Touch Review - My Likes & Dislikes After Weeks of Use.
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- čas přidán 3. 05. 2022
- This is my second video with the Sage (Breville) Oracle Touch espresso machine.
In this video, I'm showing you what my usual workflow looks like with this machine, and explaining what I really like about it & what I don't like about it, after using it for a few weeks.
By the way, if you're in the UK or Europe (including Ireland, Germany, France, and most other countries in mainland Europe) see: coffeeblog.co.uk/sage-applian...
Product links:
Oracle Touch from Amazon UK: amzn.to/2PpVYVd
Oracle Touch from Sage UK: breville.oie8.net/RMOrR
Oracle Touch from Amazon USA: amzn.to/3wHDdOL
Oracle Touch from Breville USA: breville.oie8.net/RyYbdy
Oracle Touch from Sage Europe: breville.oie8.net/AoYaeJ
Oracle Touch from John Lewis: john-lewis-and-partners.pxf.i...
Blog Reviews:
Sage Oracle Touch Review (UK) coffeeblog.co.uk/sage-oracle-...
Best Sage Coffee Machines (UK) coffeeblog.co.uk/sage-coffee-...
Best Breville Espresso machines (USA) coffeekev.com/best-breville-e...
Other Links Of Interest:
Freshly roasted high-quality coffee beans from The Coffeeworks (my website): cworks.co.uk (use discount code yt25 for 25% off your first order).
Coffee blog: coffeeblog.co.uk
Buy me a coffee: ko-fi.com/coffeeblogkev
Current Gear:
Canon M6 Mark ii amzn.to/3zoczes (great now the firmware has been updated so I can film in 4k without it getting hotter than the sun).
Blue Ember Mic (now just used for voiceovers): amzn.to/3pT6WR1
RØDE VideoMic Pro (now used for main audio): amzn.to/3DV7xHg
Focusrite Scarlett Solo 3rd Gen USB Audio Interface: amzn.to/3e3qwFn
Amaran 100D LED Video Light, 130W 5500K (Key light): amzn.to/3oQYrqY
Aputure Light Dome SE Softbox: amzn.to/3ESdHcJ
Neewer Bi-color 660 LED Video Light and Stand Kit (Fill light): amzn.to/35jUtwp
Neewer Portable 56 inch/142 cm Aluminium Camera Tripods (I have a few of these, very good value) amzn.to/3pPlCke
Cayer BV30L tripod with fluid head (mega tripod for the money!)
Please note, affiliate links included above.
#sage #breville #oracletouch
Thanks for the amazing reviews!!
You're very welcome, thank you for the kind words :-)
Great review. Did you notice that the fan still kicks in on silent fan mode after pulling a shot? Can't work out if silent fan mode means it should always be off or just kicks in when necessary.
Hi
Thanks for the review. Have you tested this machine with dosing cup in order to distribute and tamp manually to eliminate channeling. Thanks
Thanks for the great video Kev (this and the Oracle)! I am hoping to be able to adjust a few functions as/when needed as I have a dual boiler machine currently and this next purchase is for my office team. No one else knows how to make coffee but I like to do a little latte art and also am used to adjusting the grind size/quantity, along with dosing and tamp pressure. Leaning towards The Oracle so that my work team can easily make coffee without any need to learn the art of making coffee, whilst I still have some control (if I want to?)... but have been a little torn. I suppose if the only different between the two machines is the touch and programmable feature, then I would just buy the Oracle. If I am missing something though and the extra ~$1000 is giving me more than just a touch screen, then I might still consider the Oracle Touch. If I don't have the option of just choosing 'hot water' or 'hot milk' for example, with the Touch version, that will get a little annoying for me I think. Appreciate your thoughts on this one if you have the time Kev - thanks!
Northern "Coffee botherer" AND you're still watching "Lost" on repeat!..🧐.What a Dude Kev!!!😜 I kept watching Lost, hoping the penny was gonna drop.🤯 This channel is So so soo entertaining (and content is spot on!) You really give me what I'm looking for when I click on the coffee vids.🤩🙏🙏
Thanks :-)
great review from across the pond! So close to pulling the trigger. I would prefer to get the Oracle, but they are difficult to find new. I suppose I could "live" with the touchscreen if needed, but that adds to the price as well (as it should), but I think I would prefer to manually push a button. I was sold on this after spending a weekend with a family that had the Oracle. Nothing I make at home is satisfying now.
Yeah I'm thinking the Oracle over the Touch too. Interesting to hear you say they're hard to find. In Australia and I see them everywhere :D Lots online too.
Hilarious comments about Lost & really good review. Thanks for making.
I do wonder however, how would I get the coffee into a small espresso shot cup as it looks as though the coffee pours from 2 side of the portafilter & would probably splash around.
Cheers.
The splitter on the bottom of the filter just screws off and you have one hole in the middle.
Thank you for a nice review.
How often do I have to change the water in the water tank to drink a good coffee?
Hi Aiko,
That's a great question, I would recommend you re fill the water daily, as you would do your kettle.
Cheers
Kev
I have tested the Sage Barista Pro and Oracle Touch side by side, directly next to one another. Same Water, same Coffee etc. Both with stock baskets, later with IMS Competition Baskets.
I personally find, the Barsita Pro makes for a better espresso shot. The extractions are more even and honeylike with the BP (with correct puck prep!), the OT seems to be suffering a lot with channeling.
After 10-15sec of a warm honey like extraction, spurts and sputters occur with the OT. More than in every second shot. Very annoying for a 2k coffee investment.
The reason for this is very simple: auto tamper! Yes it grinds at a very consistent grade, but than the coffee grinds are circularly „thrown“ in the basket by the tamping fan. It helps with breaking clumps and air pockets, but it throws and presses the most ground powder to the outer areas of the puck.
Once enough grind is filled, tamping beginns. But! Due to the overfill on the outer, it is more compressed. Leading to an very uneven, undercompressed inner party, middle of the puck.
You can actually see that by stopping the grind process in the middle: all powder outside, no powder inside until the end. Due to only a rotational distribution you will never really have even distributed from the inside to the outside, or throughout the puck.
Leading to? Right, channeling! System failure by design… very annoying and frustrating for a 2k espresso machine. To be honest, the only real downside, but therefore such a hefty and unfixable one, that it ruins the whole experience for me. Bcuz the machine is build to use auto grind with auto tamp. If i could distribute and tamp by myself, problem would be solved, but thats not possible.
Since a even distribution of grind is the key to perfect extraction, a great espresso shot is very rare and pure luck.
So because you have to prepare the puck yourself with the BP, once you have a consistent method with WDT or OCD tool and tamp yourself, great extractions nearly every time. Bare in mind, BP is only 1/3 of the costs of a OT, wtf… what a design flaw.
Still, i love the auto milk steam function and the microfoam is amazing.
Upgrading to the precision IMS competation baskets made for a way better extraction and greater tasting shot, what a game changer.
But the channeling problem with the OT still exists and makes for quite unbalanced shot due to uneven extraction with over- and underextracted parts of the puck.
My go to would be the Sage Dual Boiler with the Smart Grinder Pro. The best bang for the buck from my perspective! In the Sage Magic Duo Set its nearly half the price of the OT, but with way better coffee or espresso in the end.
Cheers
Thanks for your advice and detailed information!
Cheers
Kev
I am currently looking into investing in a Sage Machine but no detailed reviews insight. I love this comment as your explanation makes perfect sense but was the last thing I’d have thought about. You see this massive price tag and simply believe it’s the best. I will now look at the duo boiler machine as you stated and see where I am at
Totally agreed with your find. My second cup coffee's extractions are always channeling, its not consistent like the first cup that i make. Even i tried to used the tools to puck again after the machine did it, dont know why the results are still the same. just got this machine 2 months ago.
Very enjoyable video! I personally like the current age of touchscreens on smartphones but feel on home appliances they tend to use a few generation old screens that still suck very much... More serious question here, how consistent is the dosing? currently I use a barista pro and my main reason for upgrading would be to no longer have to weigh the beans every time as well as clean up the mess after :). Thanks! Nick
Thanks Nick, you make a good point there actually, although even the latest phone touchscreens do my head in! ;-). I've not actually tested the dose consistency, actually, I will do though, thanks for the suggestion. I think it's relatively consistent, but obviously it'll change when you're changing the grind size. Ta, Kev.
very helpful video! Would you talk about colour choice of the breville machines? stainless steel vs the black ones? are the black ones also stainless steel or plastic covered? Thanks.
All of them have stainless steel body, just different coatings (certain black version has matte finish)
Drinking a straight up double espresso, made with a Breville Barista Pro :) Eyeing off the Oracle and Touch as potential upgrades to this great machine.
Also yeah, I actually hate touch screens on devices - they're much harder to use, more prone to errors and problems, and they just don't FEEL as nice to use (and I'm a software developer who loves technology lol).
So I notice you have a "normal" Oracle in the back there, and you said you ultimately prefer that because of the controls, etc. I think I would be the same. It doesn't sound like you lose much going to the standard non-Touch Oracle, other than profiles? Also it's a bunch cheaper :)
Thanks for the video Kev! Cheers from Australia.
(lol Lost reference over a decade after the show ended :D )
Cheers :-). Yeah I'd agree, I don't find you lose much other than the profiles, and the fact that it has a pretty looking touch screen, they're the same machine at their core. Haha, yeah but although it ended over a decade ago most people I speak to are still scratching their heads trying to figure out what actually happened, and how to get those 7 years of their lives back ;-). I recently watched the entire thing again from the start, for the 3rd time in total, and finally I get it (kind of...).
Cheers
Kev
What makes a better coffee, this or the Gaggia Academia new version ?
hello...where did you find the black knock box? Cant seem to find it anywhere...i have it but in stainless...
I love this machine, as my first coffee machine it was perfect and had a very easy learning curve. Dialing in on this machine is not the best, especially if you change coffee often and like lighter roasts without milk but that might not be the target audience. Since the machine has a regular portafilter i could easily upgrade by simply using an external grinder (i bought this partially since it was cheaper at about 900€ than a sage dual boiler + a grinder) but the milk steaming feature is enough to make this a better machine unless you want to modify the dual boiler for flow control among other things.
One issue i have with the touch model is that there is no adjustment to pre-infusion, is that a feature available on the oracle non touch?
Hi Walter, Yes it is available on the Oracle :-)
If you hold the brew button on the touch screen it’ll extend the pre-infusion until you release it.
Hi Kev great vids :) love buttons and keys going to buy original sage oracle asap:). Johnny (Bristol)
Thanks John 😀👍
Bring back keys!! Loved Blackberries as well! Also love the oracle as I also prefer buttons and not touch screens.
Just like me Pamela!
Why do you say you have to compromise slightly to precisely dial in on the oracle vs the oracle touch? (14:30)
Hi I was always told to ensure enough coffee is in the hopper as you could suffer from the pop corn situation and get a low dose coffee.
Hi Mike, you'll only get popcorning when using a grinder for single dosing, the last few beans will bounce around, and to be honest I don't really find it makes a difference in practice although I know it does in theory. I even took the anti-popcorning disk thing off the Niche Zero as it slowed the grinding down and I've never actually noticed any impact of popcorning. Ta, Kev.
Would love to know more about milk temperature. We have a Siemens beam to cup and the milk for any milk drink, no matter what setting we use remains cold or at the very best room temperature. It's not a fault. Can I actually control milk temperature and by how much? Cheers
Hi K,
One very important rule with milk temp is to pre warm your cups, It will honestly make such a difference to your coffee, Keep your cups on top of the machine when its on with the base of the cup on the machine, that way your cup is warm and ready for you to use.
Cheers
Kev
Hi Kev! Comparing the Oracle with the BDB using a milky doesn’t quite seem fair for a taste contest. I’d like to see you do a blind comparison with a straight espresso. Also, is it me or was that steamer really good with the oat milk?
Yeah I will do a proper comparison with espresso, it'll depend on what grinder the DB is paired with though, and the main difference for me between either the Oracle or the Oracle Touch, and the Dual Boiler, is precision.
If you want to get perfectly dialled in and then for each shot to be perfect from there, well we all know it's not quite that simple even with something like the DB and a well-paired grinder, but you'll definitely have more joy where precision and repeatability in that precision is concerned with the Dual Boiler paired with a capable grinder.
The compromise though, for this level of convenience, isn't all that great, particularly when you're making milkies, as it's a bit harder to detect the result of that slight lack of precision in a flat white for example, which is why I made that comparison in the video. If you enjoy straight espresso, you have a keen palate, and you want perfect shots every time - then the Oracles aren't really made for you.
I've got the dual boiler, and if I want an espresso and I have the time to properly dial in, I'll fire that up, but a lot of the time while I've had the Oracles around, as I usually drink flat white in the day while I'm writing, I've been using the Oracles, and they've been brilliant - particularly the Oracle, as I mentioned in the video I'm not a huge fan of touch screens. Fat thumbs ;-).
Ta
Kev
@@Coffee_Kev thanks Kev! I’m a huge fan and your review of the BDB (or SDB on your side of the pond) was the influence that made me upgrade to the BDB. Then again, your reviews of the Bambino Plus made me buy that, so my wife might not be the biggest fan, haha! Cant wait to see if Breville incorporates some of that Baratza tech in the Oracle. If they do, then I might have to go with the Oracle. Maybe then, my family wouldn’t ask me to be the barista all the time! Again, love the channel, huge fan, and the production values keep getting better too!
What do you think of the grinder on these machines? I'm thinking If I got a separate grinder (eureka or niech) with a bambino plus that would still be easy to use but better coffee because of the grinder? What do you think ?
If you were to compare the dual boiler with one of the grinders you've mentioned, then yeah I'd say better shot potential, more precise dialling in vs integrated grinder - as the Oracle machines are based on the Dual Boiler. To compare one of their entry level machines with a stand alone grinder to the Oracle machines isn't a straight comparison. There are pros and cons, and it'll probably depend on the coffee in question. Cheers
@@Coffee_Kev OK cool might make an interesting video for comparison!
How long does it take to dial in a new coffee
Will this make an Americano or reg coffee ?
Wish there was a Barista Touch review and a comparison with the Barista Pro
I bought my Sage Barista Express in 2019 November just before the pandemic hit. The price I paid was £365.00 from Costco - and over the years I have spent some money on tampers, bigger steaming jug, etc. My same machine is now over £500 - they are profiteering now and i think this machine would have been £1K then and they are just boosting the prices knowing people working at home will still pay. I just cannot justify £2K plus on a machine like this, I would rather get a simpler machine that lets me learn how to change my grind settings to extract a better and more tasty shot. To learn how to steam the milk myself so i can get the best taste, etc. I hope whoever buys this enjoys it and fair play to them as it is their money and their enjoyment. I will not out of principle. Thanks for the video.
So would this be good for a small business not really an expert but would like to sell some coffee using this machine
Does this portafilter have plastic components inside? I prefer to avoid any plastic contact with my coffee.
I'm about to open a small cafe, after more than a stressful decade of being an a design engineer. Compared to the non-automatic machines, this one looks absolutely wonderful! Semi-automatic, very balanced to operate. But is it good for professional use? From what I understand, it's a high-end home appliance.
Hi, No, these machines ae based on home baristas and are not designed for commercial use, If you send me an email kev@coffeeblog.co.uk I will put you in contact with a company that deal in commercial machines.
Ta
Kev
@@Coffee_Kev thank you very much! :)
Can anyone tell me the difference between this machine Nd the barista touch please
How much coffee did you extract from that 22g basket? It looked like a lot, more than 1:2? Problem I have with my Oracle is getting the extraction volume consistent. One day I'll get 40ml of coffee, then the next (same bean, exact same settings) it'll be 75ml or 30ml with no discernible reason why! Last of grind consistency maybe?
I made the mistake of buying the OT for $2,800 a few years ago. The grinder and tamp is horrible but easily fixed with a WDT and tamping myself and adding a puck screen. I agree that the touch screen is not great and buttons will be much better.
Omg! I have also watched the whole of Lost again!! How bizarre!! Only second time for me though!! It made a bit more sense this time, not much…but a bit more!! 👍
It still baffles me to be honest, I might have to watch it again!
I kind of wish Sage would offer a cheaper model that use’s all the same technology and features as the touch. But instead of a touch screen they use a less fancy screen with a simple text and icons with the person choosing their settings via old fashion buttons and dials. Maybe some day they will look at such a model design so the consumer has to worry about one less thing breaking. Because if the touch screen breaks after two years and the repair costs are silly. The consumer who didn’t buy the extended warranty will be furious why Sage could include back up buttons, which are hidden under a flap or sliding mechanism.
Now what should Sage offer in the future. I think there is a market for modular coffee machines that can have a range of parts swapped out for repairs, upgrades and swapping around for certain drinks, coffee styles and projects. And if they included a Rspberry PI chip that supports Linux & similar types of OS, just think what kind of settings and software could be added or customised. Right what about intellectual designs and patents, well for certain modular parts you would have to purchase new one’s from Sage or an authorised dealer.
And since nations are passing laws that means consumers must be allowed to fix their electronics. Sage better look at a range of modular coffee machines and blenders, because since most coffee machines sold these days is a technically electronic device they will have to get with the times unlike the old days.
Now let’s talk why I brought up the old days in relation of new EU laws so here I go. In the old days before chips were a thing, electronics weren’t available to the consumer due to size, reliability and cost. And because of that, the coffee machines back in the early to mid 20th century were manual with no assistance. But since most coffee machines on the consumer market and in retail now use chips to a certain degree.
Sage are going to have to get with the times, because if a smaller brand or start up company/campaign offers a modular coffee machine first. They will lose out on early adopters and people who have been waiting years or decades before buying their next coffee machine.
You push the touch screen like it’s going to bit you.😊. I bought an Oracle Touch 4 years ago and had an issue after 18 months. Breville repaired at no charge. 30 months later, it had another issue. Broken connector on top of a pump. I was fully prepared to buy another, but called Breville support. They offered a new unit with a 25% discount, or repair mine for $550, including tax and shipping. If they are unable to repair, they will replace with a refurbished unit. I called in to request the repair, and was given a 25% discount for the repair. I sent it off the same day, as I still had the box from the previous repair, and within a week was told it could not be repaired. Without any conversation with support, an order was created for a replacement. The product number did not indicate it was refurbished. It was shipped three day UPS and was lost in shipping. It took a week to get UPS and Breville talking, but soon another was on the way. I finally received the replacement, and it was new, not refurbished. I love this machine and can’t say enough about Breville support.
Thanks for the update Tom :-)
im not sure to get touch or oracle with the regular buttons argh
Just depends on how you're going to use it. If a number of people will be using it, choosing different drinks, you may find the touch is the better choice. Personally if I'm going to be using either machine, and it's just me using it, I'd go for the non-touch version, as I'm usually making either flat white, espresso or long black, and the touch screen kind of gets in the way, for me, I just want to start the machine grinding, I don't want to have to mess about selecting a drink first via the touch screen. Ta, Kev
Drinking a cappuccino purchased the oracle touch in truffle black.
Enjoy :-)
Whilst you may your coffee machines, I'd work on the delivery of this, ie tge point of you not liking touchscreens was unnecessarily repeated & some points were made with very long sentences that made the mind drift to the key point.
Thanks for the feedback
I’m with you 100% about buttons, which is why I wouldn’t buy this. Our Oracle is starting to show its age, and I am only really looking at an original Oracle. I hope they don’t stop making it…
I think it is a very popular machine ,and will be with us for many year to come, Hopefully!
Cheers
Kev
hi kev, you old fart :) lol, need some advice spending way to much in Nespresso shops for pods, I want a bean to cup machine and had a Delonghi magnifca some time ago that was great but eventually broke down after several years, I like this review and people do rave about this machine, I just can't decide on a super fully automatic machine with a touch screen like Siemens or Delonghi or try sage for like you say the traditional coffee making, I guess its the best tasting coffee im after and not something that needs a microwave after lol. thanks kev
Out of interest, did you end up finding a machine you liked? I’m in the same boat!
@@c02mosh Hi, yes I did thanks I spent hours researching and I ended up getting the delonghi primma donna soul, its normally 1300 but went on sale with delonghi and lakeland for £999-its so good the coffee is always hot-very user friendly touch screen tells you when and where to put milk dial for different types of drinks, I honestly can make a cappuccino and only just start to drink it slowly after 10-15 mins as to hot-we did buy the specific glasses for it on amazon for £45 so all the drinks fit the correct glasses on display-sage looked good but I wanted simplicity in the long run and drinks are hot and we use Starbucks beans-feel free to ask if need any more info :)
Glad you got sorted!
@@Coffee_Kev Hiya could you please give me some advice between the the oracle or barista touch which would you recommend more would it be better getting the barista and buying a upgraded grinder or just go with the oracle
I wanted this machine but got talked into a Barista Touch instead
I’m on my 5th new machine after being replaced under warranty. If you don’t mind this machine breaking each year and getting replaced then buy it. This machine has no reliability
Hi, Have you had the same problems on each machine or has the issue been different every time?
Cheers
Kev
@@Coffee_Kev Hello, mainly yes it has been the same types of issues. however on this 4th machine the grinder motor also burnt out. I was still able to steam and make coffee for a couple of weeks but then the steam wand would turn on by itself and you can't turn it off with unplugging the machine. This is the most common problem I ran into. One thing about descaling is the tech support people at breville (2 of them now) have said don't use the descale function, just run a tank of descale solution through the machine like you were making coffees as normal. If you use the descale function you run into the issue of it not returning to its ability to get back up to temperature, the temp will stay around 165 degrees and not increase.
But here is my history
Machine 1: steam would turn on by itself and stay on until machine unplugged (1 year).
Machine 2: While trying to make coffee water would come out of the portafilter and hot water spout same time and no pressure (8 months).
Machine 3: steam would turn of by itself and stay on until machine unplugged, temp sensor burned out. (1 year 3 months).
Machine 4: grinder motor burned out, while making coffee water would come out portafilter and hot water spout (7 months).
Machine 5: Is on its way from Breville warranty and will be sold as new machine in box unopened.
Wow! Sounds like you've been very unlucky there! These were all replacements or they fixed the same machine? So you were told to descale them without going through the descale menu, you just put the descaler in the tank and then ran it through the group? How did you get the descale solution through the steam boiler?
Ta
Kev
@@Coffee_Kev all brand new. After returning the machines the report was “unrepairable” they sent a brand new replacement.
@@aptek30 cheers, did I correctly understand what you said in the previous comment, you've been descaling just by putting the solution in the tank and then going through the motions of making coffees? Ta, Kev.