This is why you are such a good reviewer. You are always watching and learning, and willing to change a previously held belief. Proof of this, is that you are the only Guntuber that comments on other channels on a regular basis.
@@DeeboComing I have with a stock 6920 using 75..77 grain 1.to 1.15 consistent MOA at 100 yards till the barrel starts heating up ..really surprised at the results of the CHF Barrel in this video ???
The most consistent, smallest-group shooting barrel I have ever shot (at least a few hundred rounds each) is my Criterion 18" 1-8 HBAR barrel I bought and installed in my AR15 a couple years ago. I'm shooting 3/8" groups at 100 yards (my chosen zero). One thing I did also which I believe in now, is lapping the barrel seat face. I got a lapping tool from Brownells and lapped all my AR uppers. It tightened-up the groups on all of them, one of which was the focus of what I considered a defect until lapping the surface. I noticed the finish was applied unevenly on all of them which explained things for me. Hope it helps others...
@@djupchurch2673 Yes it did. I hate when people stretch the truth to the point it's not really the whole truth, so I'm telling you 3/8" is true and I repeated it to proove to myself I was not just lucky. Two factors may have helped, no wind that day, and I was shooting Black Hills 40gr varmint ammo, but I had been shooting that same ammo all along with that AR anyway. The only difference was lapping, so it proved to me that was a great improvement. Besides, it's not hard to (I had never done it before)...well worth the time, money and effort in my mind.
@@dandexinventorwhy the good fuck are you shooting useless ass 40 gr out of a 1/8? Also, you need to specify group. 3 shot (useless)? 5 shot (meh, ok) or 10 shot (what should be a group)
I've just installed a Criterion Core barrel in my latest 5.56 build. I haven't run a lot of rounds through it as of yet, but let me tell you, I am more than pleased with the preliminary results.
I think it's like anything I think there are good and bad hammer forged barrels and good and bad cut rifled barrels. I've seen many debates on single point vs button rifling and they both seem to be almost the same. Chrome lined seems to always have a negative impact on accuracy to some degree though which is to be expected. I've shot some amazing CHF barrels from SAKO and Blaser and I've also had fantastic results from Criterion. Running a Hybrid heavy 6.5 Creedmoor Criterion in a STAG 10 and having no trouble at all at 1000M on targets about 20" around. cut the barrel back to 19" and the velocity didn't change much from the 22". I'm less than 100 FPS difference (really about 6o-70) than when it was longer.
I have the same Criterion barrel you used and my receiver face was squared off by DTECH. My barrel shoots better than any other barrels I've owned. I had your 18" barrel and it too shot great. They clean up easily and there is very little copper fouling after 100 rounds. Maybe 2 patches. I'm really amazed at the precision of Criterion barrels.
What contour/thickness are you running? This can make a huge difference in performance. Also, a nice upper to barrel fit should have to be heat fitted. if your upper receiver had a loose fit on the barrel when installing it and you didnt have a bolt matched to the Criterion barrel that would be the difference right there for larger grouping....see a lot of installs where they put stainless shims if there is any play in the barrel extension when installing on a upper receiver with subpar specs. The actual bolt can also have a serious impact on accuracy, many people dont know that their bolts aren't quite up to spec or barely fit within tolerances.
I sure would like to see a standard birdcage flash hider on both uppers, it makes such a huge difference in accuracy switching from muzzle device to muzzle device.
Is there a "I live less than 5 miles away" discount? How did I not know you guys were THAT CLOSE? Between you guys and Midwest Industries WI is good to go. :)
I just built a savage 7mm R.E.M. mag using one of your barrels that shoots .1875” groups at 100 yards using Horady 175 ELDX bullets producing 3133 FPS. Still working up to pressure. Can’t be happier with it.
@jamesstephenson2346 What do you expect to gain by addressing other shooters this way? An ego stroke, most likely. You’re the guy who, only a year or so ago, just found out the information you are throwing in his face and you only discovered it then because someone with more experience told you so. Stop being such a pretentious dick. Stop it.
I know this is a pretty old video. I watched it multiple times before and after I bought a Criterion 18" Hybrid AR barrel last year (rifle gas). So I want to share a little bit of my personal experience with this barrel. Hope it'll be useful to someone. After I received the barrel last year, I built a SPR from it. The first thing I noticed was the fit between the barrel and my Aero Precision M4E1 enhanced upper was a little loose. The barrel was wobbling a bit inside the receiver. AP's upper is pretty solid and high quality, and I tightened the barrel nut to 55 lb*ft as Aero Precision specified. The first few trips to the range, it didn't shoot well at all. I tried different ammos. Always 1+ MOA, sometimes maybe close to 2 MOA. I wasn't happy about it. So I reassembled everything, tightened the barrel nut a little bit more and made sure everything else was put together according to the specs. Still it didn't shoot well. Then I found videos talking about bedding between the barrel and upper receiver. Because the loose fit in my case, I decided to do that. So I bedded my barrel and the upper using Loctite 620, which got rid of all the play between them. They're literally glued together super solid. Now it shot noticeably better. I could get sub-MOA sometimes (with IMI 77gr razor core), but not consistently. Most of time it's still 1+ MOA. It's not to my expectation yet, but at least better than before. With my other two WOA ARs (one complete varmint upper from WOA and one I built using WOA predator barrel), I could consistently get 0.6 ~ 0.7 MOA easy. Some of the best groups I got with them are 0.2 ~ 0.3 MOA. And I was using the same ammos I had at home. So I knew I wasn't the major limiting factor for the Criterion barrel. Since then, I left that upper alone for months since I had more accurate rifles to play with. This year I somehow had an urge to see if I could possibly improve the Criterion's accuracy a little bit more. To do that, I needed to remove the "glued" barrel from the receiver first, which took me quite an effort with a propane torch and some hard pushes. Fortunately it came out clean. Then I reinstalled it to a new BCM upper. BCM upper has a reputation of being undersized. So I had to heat it up to thermal fit the barrel in. This time there was no play at all which was a good sign. I then put everything together and took it to the range. I felt the accuracy was probably better than last year, but still most of time it's 1+ MOA. For that trip, I got only one sub-MOA group out of like 15. So I was trying to figure out if there's anything else I can do. I realized I was using an old BCG from another rifle. So I decided to swap in a brand new BCG I had. Another range trip. This time, it still shot most of ammos 1+ MOA. But for IMI 77gr razor core, man, I got 3 sub-MOA groups out of 4. The first group was mediocre because it's probably refouling the barrel. The next 3 groups were ~0.5 MOA, ~0.6 MOA, ~0.6 MOA, pretty consistently. Now I was happy about it. It seems Criterion barrel is a little pickier than my WOA barrels. For several match ammos I have, WOA can shoot most of them sub-MOA consistently. But for Criterion, IMI is the only one I found so far that can shoot. But still I'm happy I found it (I don't reload). Another lesson I learned from this is apparently BCG matters in accuracy.
I can back what you said up as I not only lapped my upper face contact area to the barrel, but also used a high quality Sharpe's BCG when I built it to begin with, so my .75 MOA starting point was not bad...yet I wanted more out of it (actually less...of a group that is). All of these things make a difference which appears to add up together. You did not say anything about lapping...did you, or would you be willing to try it is it would bring your group even tighter? Good luck!
@@dandexinventor I actually thought about lapping the upper receiver face when the barrel was installed on my M4E1 enhanced upper last year. But with that upper, normal lapping tool doesn't work. So I didn't pursue that route. Since then, I read some mixed opinions on whether people should always lap the upper receiver. From your experience, how much have you gained in terms of accuracy from lapping the upper? I'm curious.
@@Ming_USA I did all of my uppers and they all showed some degree of improvement. One of them was already close to being true, so I only noticed my average group improve by .15 MOA. I could tell is already close to true because the lapping tool only took off a very small amount before th ewhole face was showing lap marks. With the others, the worst one took me lapping for a few seconds, look to see how much was coming off, then a few more seconds...repeated until I saw the whole face with new lapping marks. This one improved from .750MOA to .37MOA (average over 20 rounds for my test before and after on all of them). I was learning a lot at the time and kept notes to see what affected what. I learned almost everything affects impact placement, but group size seemed to get better and stay there if the ammo and my skills were consistant. The one thing which threw me off at first was barrel temp, so I learned to shoot 3 rounds before any shots which needed to count. I believe tempature affects harmonics as well, so I learned not to tune my brake/tuner until my barrel was warm. All that made a big difference...now I'm wondering how to get away from that so cold bore shots are not flyers more often than not. If hunting, can't shoot warm up shots. I might have to try my DeWalt cordless heat gun in winter, on hunts, but living in the desert means my barrel is usually over 100F 8 months out of the year anyway. Good luck with your lapping if you can get it done. The other route (assuming your upper is true) is watch Johnny's Reloading and learn to tune your ammo to your gun. That is what I'm doing now...it's a great hobby...keeps me busy and out of trouble, lol.
@@dandexinventor Thanks man for all the information and details! That sounds very promising. What I heard before was if the upper is from a reputable manufacturer, usually there's no need to lap it. But seems you're getting pretty consistent improvement by doing it. I may give it a try for my next build. I've also read about the cold bore (and very hot bore) flier before as you mentioned. But my understanding is it happens more often with thin barrels. Heavy/bull barrels are less susceptible to temperature fluctuations. But I'll keep an eye on it when I shoot cold bore next time. About reloading, I've done some research on it, but not gone down that route yet. With two kids to raise, I just don't have that much time to do it at this stage of my life. :) But I feel I'll eventually do it when I hit the next stage of my life. lol.
Came here thinking about getting one of their 18” barrels not knowing is was going to get some good tech. Thank you for this. And if the others commenting thank you!
I bought your 22inch barrel for my Springfield m1a in an EBR chassis. I haven't shot it yet but after this video I'm very excited to see how it works out. Looks like y'all do great work
I am trying to decide between a WOA or Wilson Combat for a 16" or 18" build....shooting 69-77gr loads 100 to 600 yards. But the Criterion looks really impressive here. Better than I would have thought. Now I am even more confused. Thanks 😊
He just shared the basic info difference between a chrome lined barrel, and a cold hammer forged barrel The CHF will last 2-3 times longer, but with slightly less accuracy That is the only difference between them
Who makes this CHF barrel? Factory DDM4A1 produced a five-shot group last weekend of .96, four of the shots were under half an inch with Nosler 69GR. My DD barrels are all MOA with match ammo and have nearly shot MOA groups with IMI 55GR and Wolf Gold.
Yeah, a dd chf barrel shoots far better than this chf barrel used. Heck I got a 14.7 PSA chf barrel that even my old ass can get 2 inch groups or better off a back of a chair in the woods!
Very interesting video and I like how tight the group is, but I also get skeptical when these test are performed without giving the information on the other barrel manufacturer.
The point of this video wasn't to call out the manufacturer of the other barrel in this comparison (I have a couple of personal friends that work for that company and I don't want to talk ill of their product, especially since this is a fairly anecdotal comparison using only two separate uppers). The goal of this particular clip was to recommend shooters do their homework when purchasing a high quality rifle barrel. If rifle builders don't have a bore scope or gauging instruments on hand, reading unbiased consumer reviews and researching national record barrel performance in various different rifle disciplines is probably one of the best ways to accomplish that objective.
Holy Days!!! I knew that the barrel has an impact on the accuracy of the rifle, but I am shocked to see the difference in performance between two barrels that I would have thought performed similarly!! No chance that you would disclose the maker of the CHF barrel?
@@workingr No. Can tell by the profile and finish it's not a DD. Their barrels are capable of half-inch groups at 100 with match ammo. Shot a 0.96 last weekend with a DD M4A1, four of the shots were under half an inch.
Sam G. I can honestly say I’ve done this at 25 yards standing and prone at 100 yards with my razor 1x6 and my ADM 14.5 which has a criterion barrel. The Vortex LPVO class was awesome and really showed me what these barrels can do
I got a bcm 1/8 twist it was all good till about 2000 rounds in now im haveing accuracy issues hand lapped button barrel was hopeing for better results if i got a barrel from yall
Got a criterion prefit for my big horn in 224 valkyrie. Doesn't shoot worth a crap with factory ammo or handloads, but I'm still not giving up, looking for a problem with my assembly first.
I have a question about proper cleaning. When I clean my rifle, will a bronze brush hurt the chrome? This is the tightest shooting barrel I have ever owned and I don't want to 'eff it up!
The bronze brush itself shouldn't hurt the chrome, but they do tend to pick up pieces of debris/primer material/other abrasives that may wear the barrel a bit more prematurely than if you just used patches and a one piece coated cleaning rod. It's a pretty minimal difference that would only become evident with excessive cleaning. We have an article that details our recommended cleaning procedures here: criterionbarrels.com/criterion-recommended-rifle-barrel-cleaning-procedures
Thats what I'm looking for. Thanks. While I'm here can I suggest a Hybrid profile chrome lined barrel in 6.5 Creedmore and 6.5 Grendel. You barrels shoot very well and are priced very well. I have been exploring other caliber options than 5.56 and 308 and I want a chrome lined barrel.
@@hambone950 I know that now. (that post is six years old by the way) When you're first starting out, its better to ask first than find out you effed something up.
Is a headspaced bolt necessary to achieve the best possible accuracy? Or can you still achieve the advertised accuracy with a standard Mil Spec bolt (e.g. Colt bcg)? Also, which gas block do you recommend for your pencil contour barrels (.625 diameter)?
I use to believe that all bolts are the same. Thats not true at all. The loose tolerances that are beneficial to combat dirt that gets in the chamber. Is the same loose tolerance that will hurt accuracy. But aid in reliability. Basically, the tighter the tolerance the greater the accuracy at the expense of reliability. So if its a combat AR15. Then a standard bolt is ok. A DMR? Then you want the best accuracy possible.
-I would say it is efficiency in manufacturing, not accuracy or barrel life... and it is a good method. However, with a chrome lined barrel, it is the uniformity, tolerances, and quality of the chrome lined interior that will determine barrel life and accuracy, not how the rifling is formed. Because we hand lap bores to perfectly uniform dimensions prior to installing chrome lining, it removes any variations in the depth and uniformity of the chrome lined interior. This makes the barrel more accurate and more durable as it removes any thin spots and variations in the depth of the chrome throughout the bore. As chrome lined barrels wear, the chrome lining will eventually begin to crack and then finally chip due to heat and pressure. Once the chrome lining chips, the barrel will never shoot to the same standard again. Our chrome lined barrels not only shoot better (on par with any of our raw stainless-steel barrels as they are held to the exact same internal tolerances) but last longer than barrels made without the same attention to detail and perfectly uniform chrome lining.
Very interested in a comparison at the 100,000 round count. About 5 years of training will push you past that. The real appeal to me is the lifetime, unlimited round count warranties FN and competitors offer. I cant verify but often i notice CHF barrels feel lighter, yet similar mass.
I have been looking at barrels for my 6.5 Grendel and your name keeps coming up during my searches. I'm looking for at least no more then 1MOA with handloads. I looking to spend in the neighborhood of $300 dollars. So I'm looking at Wilson Combat, Rainier Arms, McGowen and Criterion and it looks like I'm leaning towards Criterion Barrel. I'm going to give a fiddle and dance for my sorrows. I'm a dad of 3 girls. One in collage and 2 will be there soon. So, M O N E Y it a priority for me and I can't waist it. That means I get one shot and I gotta keep it. The BIG Q? What happens if it's not a shooter? I go though my load development and still 1.5 MOA. What then?
All of our barrels are capable of well under 1 MOA. How the rifle is built and what components are selected make a huge difference in performance. All of this being said, we offer a satisfaction guarantee... so its fool-proof. If you are not happy we will make it right by you.
I had/have a 18” 6.5 Grendel barrel from Criterion, shoots terrible as it warms up. Like 2 MOA to 4-5 MOA. I’m not talking mag dumps, just shooting for accuracy. Called Criterion, their customer service was terrible, I just asked for a RMA to send it back so they could check it out. I was going to let Criterion decide what they wanted to do once they figured out what was wrong. They completely ignored me, so I replaced it with a Faxon Match which shot easily under 1 MOA. Criterion does not care about their product once they sell it. Buyer beware.
There are plenty of shooters that use chf barrels like dd,spikes,fn and even psa that get moa. My dd does it and even my 14.7 psa is easily 2 moa or better, if i do my job. With ff and larue triggers
The cold hammer forged chrome lined is probably less accurate but it a jungle or swamp like environment, wet and humid or dry and dusty, rainy or snowing, extreme heat or frigidly cold the chrome line CHF would most like hold up better than the stainless steel or nitrided match barrel! So are you going into war and just need to protect your self while being out in the weather for days at a time or are you in a tournament where you can clean your firearm afterwards and put in back in the safe. This is the decision one needs to consider do I need to shoot the hair off a flies ass or do I just need to land a hit on my target. To have both is the best bet
Bore scoping comparison is one thing . Am I missing something ? You are comparing your .223 Wylde barrel to the competition which is a 5.56 .223 barrel . Shouldn’t you compare the competition with a comparable .223 wylde ? If I missed something please correct me .
This is a simple comparison between commonly found CHF barrels on the market and our barrels for the AR-15. The major difference between the .223 Wylde and the 5.56 NATO chamber is a minor taper in the throat of the Wylde chamber. This taper produces more consistent chamber pressures which aids in producing better (more consistent) accuracy. Both chambers will effectively fire both 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington cartridges. This is not an apples to apples comparison as the manufacturing processes are very different between the two barrels. It is really highlighting the extra steps and the more refined nature of the barrels that we produce for AR-15's vs. what is commonly used as an alternative. This is not a scientific study and should only be taken as a basic public service announcement.
LMT uses a chrome-lined, button-cut barrel instead of CHF barrels, which is different than most high-end military contract rifles. I wonder if Criterion makes them for LMT or if they use in-house barrels.
Ah, the magic marketing word "billet" was used. Since a billet only means a chunk of metal, it's a pointless adjective when describing a receiver. ALL machined parts start with a billet of some form. I thank you for using the term, though, since I can now discount anything else you say.
Forgings are pressed into shape by hundreds of tons of pressure, billet is cut from a piece of forged bar stock. Generally forged receivers are more rigid and lighter in weight... take your pick. But then again, what do I know?
At 8.20 you adjusted windage for what reason? The gun wasnt grouping much less consistent enough to even tell which direction to move it. That was atleast a 6 inch group. It looked like it got shot with buckshot.
I bought mine from optics planet. It has a burr in front of the gas port. Only shoots 1" with immaculate handloads. I need better. Copper free except for in front of the burr. I havent shot it further than 100 but dont have high expectations. Shopping again. My M1A with Criterion Could shoot .5" consistently with my handload and a tuned rifle. Did very well in DMR matches.
Hi UXO Tony. I'm sorry to hear you have run into some complications with your barrel. Feel free to give us a call at (262) 628-8749 or shoot us an email at contact@criterionbarrels.com and Michael will get you set up with a recall tag. We offer a satisfaction guarantee, and would be more than happy to inspect, repair, or replace your barrel if necessary.
Well im sold. Question. Will the nitride finish have better accuracy that the chrome? Id like to buy one at the end of the week. Can find any information or videos on this.
It really depends on the button rifling company.. There are some shoddy button rifled barrels out there which are inferior to a good cold hammer forged barrel, and vice versa. With that being said though, the button rifling process has a higher ceiling when it comes to quality
We have a 1-7.7 model in stock designed for the really heavy bullets (CRI-A2BBL). 1-7 twist Criterion barrels can be ordered through Precision Firearms or Compass Lake Engineering as well!
This honestly gets on my nerves button cut rifle barrels are not as smooth as cold hammer forged. In fact cold hammer forged barrels are levels of magnitude smoother than button cut rifle barrels and you know this. You really should spread mis information like this about cold hammer forged barrels
We work with a few custom shops like Precision Firearms that may be able to help out on that front. For in-house work we typically require production runs of 25+ pieces to effectively offset setup and tooling costs.
Pinned gas blocks are said to decrease accuracy due to heating and metal displacement. Judging by the fact that they are a "Precision oriented" Co. I would say likely not.
The black upper (with the CHF barrel) features an ADM Lowlight rail. I have one installed on one of my personal SPR builds and I've been pretty happy with it.
The mandrel they are formed around wear and can still have imperfections that would be imprinted on the bore. Much like button rifling the quality of the barrel is more dependent on who is making the barrel rather than how the barrel is made.
My 20 inch hybrid chrome lined got delivered today. I have a bunch of powder, primed cases, and 77 grain bullet set aside for it. What kind of barrel life can I expect?
Barrel life depends on a number of factors (load recipe, case composition, rate of fire, maintenance procedures, definition of "shot out", etc.). That said, we typically see a barrel life of 17,000 - 20,000 rounds through a rifle before we see our 3-Gun shooters swap out our chrome lined barrels. These barrels are typically engaged in rapid fire strings of 30-60 rounds at a time, using a mix of inexpensive short range ammunition, as well as long range match ammunition. The service life criteria for these shooters normally involves being able to consistently shoot sub-MOA groups. That said, we have seen barrels last significantly longer than the aforementioned service life. The highest sub-MOA round count I have run across was a shooter who had put 30,000+ rounds through his chrome lined barrel. According to the customer it still shot great, but it was getting difficult to clean (the high level of throat erosion was causing fouling issues). I hope this helps with answering your question!
If only mine(18 1in7 CM) ever shot even close to this with any handload recipe under the sun(69-77), I wouldn't have spent beaucoup bucks and replaced it with a Bart, which did deliver these groups. Was a solid barrel, but not even remotely close to this. More like a .6-.75 true average with best loads, loaded(24.1g Var + Berger 77 OTM) or factory. And yes, trued and bedded, tube aligned, ADM upper, JP bolt, , MI guard, TTD trigger, turned by CLE. Would love to know what you guys are doing to achieve these groups. Though I only know of 2 other people with Crits(ARs, one SS one CM), neither of them shoot like this, and they are both run by more than capable shooters. Does anyone here have an AR Crit that mirrors these groups? Handloads / factory? Which barrel? SS / CM? I still think these are solid barrels for the $, and do recommend them, just want to know what else I have to do to get mine close to these results... Regardless, excellent groups, excellent shooting(especially on a waving target)
My guess is they tested out at least a couple hundred barrels to cherry pick this barrel of perfection that shoots better than 900 dollar barrels..read the comments no one else gets these kinda groups.. they are good barrels but not as good as the one they advertised.
Why did that one barrel shoot so much better than the other. What is done to the barrel that was shooting the tightest group, to make it shoot the tightest group . how did it do that
Details... we take extra steps during production like honing, hand-lapping, polishing chambers, precision cut crowns, and many other details that make for a more refined, more accurate, and more durable product.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc thank you for the reply. How does polishing Chambers and honing the bore and such produce much better groups then a factory BarreI. The factory Barrel was producing two and three inch groups, and the Criterion barrel was shooting 1/4 groups. I'm trying to imagine how simply polishing the chamber and such can produce such dramatic differences. Could you please explain. I'm curious because I plan on buying a Criterion Barrel, but I'm only able to find them being sold by Northland Shooter Supply
@@squirrelmaster760710 The extra steps ensure that the bullet to barrel interface is more consistent. This reduces fouling, bullet deformation, and increases consistency which translates to superior accuracy and durability. If you have more questions, please feel free to give us a call.
When accuracy matters White Oak Armament, Criterion, ODIN Works and Daniel Defense are what you need to be running. There are many "blasters" and mallninjas in the AR15 crowd. A small percentage wants more out of their rifle and knows Wyatt Earp said it best. "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything!" The rest of you can carry on with your high speed, low drag magazine dumps and playing with your Rare Breed FRT15 triggers. With any luck you can repeatedly hit a 8" steel plate at 25 yards. Those ^ kinds of barrels can and will hit a marble or dime at 100+ yards.
youre comparing a match grade barrel to a combat barrel. why not compare the m4 to a accuracy international bolt gun? you cant because they are tools used for different jobs.
Incorrect. Our barrels are in use by numerous special forces units, law enforcement, federal agencies, and armed citizens specifically for tactical applications. Our barrels are simply more refined as we don't compromise on performance. Why would one not want a barrel that is more accurate, especially if ones life was on the line? Our barrels are made for combat applications but deliver match grade accuracy. If your "combat barrel" isn't capable of match grade accuracy, I would suggest you reevaluate your priorities. It's 2021... you don't need to choose between accuracy or reliability, you can and should have both.
i said that because u called it a match grade barrel. i know u guys make great barrels and i dont know what chf barrel company u are referring to but i have an idea. i have an fn chf barrel that has over 12000 rounds of nothing but m855 and mk262 rounds through it and it still shoots sub moa. its a 10.5 in barrel. i was in a 14hr firefight in Afghanistan and in that time i shot out a brand new colt mk18 barrel and ever since then i have bought chf barrels that go on anything i might have to use for real. i would like to get one of your barrels for my mk 18 and see how it compares but since covid im out of work so ill have to wait till i can afford one. and im not shiting on u at all, like i said i know u make awesome barrels i just said that because u said it was a match grade barrel so i was thinking match not combat.
@@juansimon5802 Understood. Mass produced CHF barrels used to fulfill military contracts are not more durable, accurate, or reliable. They are simply the lowest bidder that meets minimum requirements... If one has a choice in the equipment they choose, which many special forces units, swat teams, federal agencies, LE, and civilians do, why not select a barrel that is more accurate, reliable, and durable... there is no need to settle for whatever Uncle Sam chooses to issue you. There is a lot of marketing smoke and mirrors surrounding CHF barrels but the reality is many are pretty rough and the 4 MOA accuracy requirement for many mil contracts is embarrassing. It isn't 1999 anymore and in 2021, the same match grade rifles found on the field of competition are also found on battlefields around the world. Quality barrels, free-floating handguards, optics, ammunition, and a comprehensive understanding of what makes an AR run like a sewing machine is the new standard. If you're building a rifle to take into harms way and it is a tool used to keep yourself and others safe, why settle for anything less than the very best? Match grade performance for fighting rifles is the way, period. Anything less is just sloppy and unprofessional. Standards are a thing and the bar needs to be raised.
So how do they stack up against the CBI 223 wild? Iv been researching a couple other brands this past week, and as of right now I'm leaning towards the cbi.. the other 2 brand I looked into are ballistic advantage, and faxon..I'd like to hear your thoughts on white oak and Odin works
@@OperationGetReady i havent shot the odin yet te criterion seems to be a little finicky on ammo if i had to put money on it i would bet on the WOA barrel although that could change with the odin , i would not bother with ballistic advantage. faxon maybe... i think Wilson barrels to be better than faxon
Yep I did all the digging I could on faxon, and Ballistic, they are ok. I thought my search was over when I saw the extra efforts and love criterion puts into the making of barrels. You know, I just saw an interview with john Krieger a few minutes ago that makes me wanna keep looking... I'm just a bit scared to find the price tag at the end of my search.. let me know how the Odin barrel handles when you have formed an opinion on it
@@CriterionbarrelsInc I am intrigued by your barrels and the reputation they have. This video is a nice demonstration of what you barrels are capable of. However, I also believe the twist rate played a factor in the how the competitor's barrel dis not shoot as well. Also, I don't remember if it was mentioned in the video, but what ammunition brand, weight, and type are you using?
I know you guys make pretty decent barrels, but I'm not sure it's fair to compare a barrel with a 5.56 chamber against a 223 Wylde chamber. The 223 Wylde chamber is always going to be more inherently accurate because the throat has a lot less slop in it. If your going to compare bore characteristics, you need to eliminate confounding factors. Using different chambers pretty much nullifies any validity in your test results.
It is a combination of good prone technique from a skilled shooter, a properly built and timed rifle with tight headspace, the weight of the rifle, the rest that is being used, etc. For testing, we do our best to remove the human element from the equation as much as possible. Consistency equates to accuracy.
Both barrels were seasoned and had roughly equivalent round counts on them at the time of this video. While they were both well cleaned the day prior, a few fouling shots were put through each upper before filming.
Good video although the reality is you're too biased to do something like this. You could very easily just be intentionally shooting a little off target to make your barrel look so much better than the competition. Although no matter what that Criterion barrel put out some serious groups.
I have one criterion 410 SS barrel I’ve shot quite a bit. From prone it shoots 1-1.5 MOA with most bulk ammo. With match ammo it’s consistently sub MOA. I had one of their 300 blk barrels and it was also sub MOA which is less common apparently.
@@K-bob_45 Thanks for the feedback. Our .300 Blackout barrels feature a unique rifling design that was specifically designed and tested for the .300 Blackout. Although this cartridge is amazing, it is not known for accuracy. Our rifling design works to squeeze as much accuracy as possible for the .300 Blackout.
Is there an easy answer on which BCGs go well with these barrels or do I really have to trial and error headspace everything? I plan on doing it anyway just to make sure, hoping my local gun store can do it for better than the price of a gauge set, but it'd be nice to have a starting point to go off. Ordered one of your .308 Hybrid CL barrels to replace an Aero precision barrel I wasn't too happy with. Was going to use the Aero BCG I had with it, at least until I could find something better. Any recommendations welcome.
As far as .308 AR's go I usually recommend going with Fulton Armory or JP Enterprises. Those are the two manufacturers we use for in-house headspace testing (DPMS should be good to go as well). We have found that some Aero bolts may headspace with our barrels, but the range of tolerance they hold varies from the DPMS standard, so many of their bolts will close on a no-go gauge.
Ok thank you sir. Got a headspace gauge set on the way. To my disbelief, not a single gun shop in town had a set. In the event that I'm out of luck with the Aero BCG (which will definitely tick me off, I hate having almost interchangeable parts laying around) I'll have some idea where to turn. Also, I'm really glad you're indicating its a DPMS pattern. If I'd just thrown an Armalite pattern in the mix I'd really be kicking myself right now
I'm calling B.S. here. what was shown was the difference between a lapped barrel and a non lapped bbl. Not cut, or button vs. hammer forged. A ture hammer forged barrel is done with a polished carbide die inside the bore and leaves a virtually mirrored surface. Far from what was shown here, where as a typical bbl has to be hanlapped to give a similar finish. ( The rougher bbl. looked like a typical poorly finished button rifled bbl. or a cut bbl cut with a dull die). A well finished lapped hammer forged bbl. is the best of both worlds! the only reason manufacturers dis. Hammer forging is thar machinery is prohibitive for all but the largest companies. It's easier to run the tech. down rather than face the truth of not wanting or being able to foot the bill for hte machinery. KnifeMaker
Why the bell is everyone just accepting this as objective? CHF barrel shoots as bad as an AK? Lol. Yes, sure a Geissele or Daniel Defense CHF barrel is a 3 min of angle to even 4, and I’m an orangoutang. Lol.
I would recommend taking a look at the CORE Series barrels. It is an excellent option for three gun due to its ability to absorb heat while also being balances and fast for rapid target acquisition and transitions.
Hey criterion thanks for not responding. I have been wanting to try a shilen barrel anyway. I have 2 criterions on savage actions that shoot fine. But you dont respond so i will spend money elsewhere.
@@Dougarrowhead Hello Realgrower. Unfortunately we will not be producing a 7mm08 barrel for a DPMS pattern LR-308 rifle. It sounds interesting, but you are the only one to ever request this combination. Producing a single, one off custom barrel is generally both time and cost prohibitive as it ties up normal production flow. Best of luck to you in the future.
How so? This is simply a sample size of one looking at what separates our barrels (to include the superior .223 Wylde chamber which features a minor taper in the throat that aids in producing more consistent chamber pressures and therefore, better accuracy) from other commonly produced AR-15 barrels on the market. Our twist rates, chambers, materials, and every other aspect of our barrels are obsessed over and the result is a more refined product. Our quality and knowledge of what makes a rifle perform is what separates us from other barrel manufacturers. We are not looking for equal and as this video demonstrates, we are not equal. That is the point.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc I do think your barrels are of superior quality generally. I thought the test was dishonest because you focused on the cold-hammer forged aspect, and appeared to avoid saying what the competitor's chamber was - only mentioning it off-hand near the 3:20 mark. I have a feeling that lot of people missed that, and assumed it was apples vs apples.
@@Subtlenimbus I do appreciate the feedback. We were not trying to conceal any aspect of the comparison. We were simply trying to show what you are getting with a Criterion barrel vs. a commonly found Hammer Forged barrel and highlight the differences. The differences are significant even outside of the chamber option. Reaming, honing, hand-lapping, and all of the other details set them apart both in fit and finish as well as raw performance. Regardless, thank you again for the feedback, I will take it into account in the future.
I don’t think you’re giving a true comparison because the cold hammer forged barrel you’re using is a crappy one. Cold forged hammer barrels are way smoother and definitely not usually as pitted and ugly as the cold hammer forged barrel you chowed because I have 3 cold hammer forged barrels and there incredibly smooth barrels and my other 3 button cut rifle barrels are definitely not as smooth. I think you have a evident bias. Theres no way a button cut criterion barrel is on average as smooth as a cold hammer forged barrel. And you know this. But good try making criterion button cut rifle barrels look as good as cold hammer forged barrel
Big Dick Cheney, I would encourage you to do some research on the manufacturing processes before throwing out your baseless emotion-laden opinions. Hammer forging is a means to form the rifling in the bore of a barrel... it is also vastly less refined than our production methods. If you have doubts, feel free to look at national record winning barrels and find a cold hammer forged barrel that was used to win a match... our barrels currently hold numerous national and internal match titles. Cold hammer forged barrels are great for what they are but they do not even come close to the refinement you get from a Criterion Barrel. I am not trying to be a big dick but in this case, you simply aren't measuring up.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc your responses are hilarious. I already bought a 13.9 core last week but if I hadn't already, I absolutely would be based on your replies alone.
When a company wont tell you what make and model of "other" widget they are comparing to their own widget it means they are cowards and afraid they will be sued over what they are about to say. If what you say is true and you back it up with empirical testing and measurements and have a well designed study you have no fears. Especially if those measurements are down by an independent certified lab or like licensed professional. Instead you want to take the easy way out and show some cheap easy to see machine marks that may or may not be the reason for the outcome you indicated with an insanely small sample size. Your appeal to authority is pathetic and just comes off as cheap marketing trickery and is disgusting! Again do better you are machine shop that makes and sells a ton of rifle barrels if this is the best science and engineering you can come up with I am worried about your product quality now!
We are not the type of company to bad mouth other brands. We obsess over our own quality and let other manufacturers worry about there own issues. We aren't interested in stirring up drama or calling others out... In fact, it is counterproductive to our own business model as we sell barrels to many rifle manufacturers who oftentimes come to us to improve upon the performance they are seeing from their CHF barrel options. This is why we didn't name any names, because many of our current customers choose us because of our professionalism and our reputation. It is not that we are cowards, as you suggest (on a side note it is rather funny to be called a coward by some internet troll who hides behind a generic CZcams channel, just food for thought)... This is hardly a scientific study buckaroo... it is simply highlighting some of the things we do differently. Yes, this is a sample size of one... again, not scientific and was never intended to be... its a simple video that was produced years and years ago. The extra steps we take in comparison to many other barrel manufacturers on the market simply make our barrels more refined and this shows in the way they perform. It is little things like honing, hand-lapping, polishing chambers, precision cut crowns, gas port testing, and all the other details that we obsess over that make for a more accurate and more durable product. We are not bad mouthing other production methods, there are many good ways to make barrels, CHF barrels included (I have used them extensively in my life in a variety of jobs). Details matter and this video highlights some of the things to look for when choosing a barrel. We have little to prove to internet mall ninjas and prefer to work with informed armed citizens, Special Forces Units, The Marine Corps Shooting Team, the Army Marksmanship Unit, SWAT teams and LE across the country, professional shooters and hunters, many of the most reputable rifle manufacturers in the world, and others who spend more time shooting and perfecting their craft than attempting to stir up drama in an old CZcams videos comment section.
Bro. Who shit in your cheerios? It was a pretty damn decent test and I can tell you I have barrels from KAC, Centurion, Triarc, Criterion, BCM, and Geissele and my criterion is easily one of the most accurate as long as I do my part. Chill the hell out. Even if they didn’t compare it to another rifle those groups are pretty damn impressive. You not realizing that let’s everyone know how little time you’ve actually spent behind a rifle and even less time spent learning about ballistics and manufacturing. Machine shops are what make custom PRS rifles. I would love to see you talk shit to someone winning PRS matches with a SAC build. Grow up
It would take a little more than a simple lapping job to clean that CHF barrel up. One or two steps would need to take place prior to rifling to allow for a more uniform bore diameter, as well as a change in production methods to allow for more a uniform chrome lining application. Without a more extensive material test I can't speak to the stress relieving process used post-rifling, but that definitely comes into play as well.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc I understand that you have a product to keep a reputation for, but some diamond lapping compound would clean the rifling right up. Keeping check with bore gages to make sure the dimensions weren't being screwed is a necessity. Of course making your own custom rifling lapping tool from lead would make the job easy. I did the same thing for my rock island 1911 with a chef barrel, and it cleaned up my groupings. Almost a night and day difference.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc also, a lot of chf barrel manufacturers don't take the time to lap their rifling in their barrels. I'm not saying your barrels are bad because I've never used them. However, I was getting sub moa accuracy out of 16 inch 1:8 twist Anderson manufacturing barrel with 69 grain federal ammo lol.
So what you are saying is that if someone gave Criterion a rotary CHF machine they would be unable to make a match grade barrel with it? Are you saying that since you do not make CHF barrels they are all inferior to your barrels? What happens if I purchase one of your barrels and one of Kriegers barrels and a CHF barrel and the CHF comes out on top? Do I then get to bad mouth button rifled and cut rifled barrels? I would like to see 100 barrels Critrion and 100 from Named Source like TIKA, F&N, LW or the like with each OEM providing the barrels. tested on a test bed with standardized load maybe 100 rounds through each barrel then the average of all shots averaged etc.....I would want it to be 3rd party independently tested. It reeks of bias might as well be CNN! Try harder! First don't be cowards if you can not or will not state name brands and the exact specifications that you have measured with regards to their barrel as compared to yours don't bother to even open your mouth about it! We want names and specifications! You working for the CDC or WHO now? LOL Do better!
Might I weed out a simple overlooked variable here and in my opinion, willful omission? We're talking about a military grade CHF 5.56x45mm barrel correct. Your barrel is using .223 Wylde yes? This is an apples to oranges comparison and seriously a joke that you tried to pull this crap on all of us. At base value a .223 Wylde barrel is already designed with more accuracy in mind than a 5.56 barrel. Also another thing not talked about. Since we're talking about cost, a CHF barrel will last you tens of thousands of rounds down the road. What is the lifespan of these barrels? There's a shit ton of overlooked nuance here and really it seems overly intention and extremely misleading. Can't believe people haven't after a year seen this. Outta here with this poor advertising.
Considering that the Criterion barrel is chrome lined, it will most likely exceed the lifespan of the CHF barrel. With regards to the chambering; 223 Wylde barrels would allow you to shoot the 223 Remington round while providing the tolerances necessary to be able to shoot 5.56 NATO. There is a multitude of studies online (some of which can be found on youtube) showing that when firing 5.56 Nato, a 223 Wylde chambered barrel will not differ in accuracy in comparison to a CHF barrel that is also shooting 5.56 NATO. The test is very much apples to apples, hence the reason why no one has pointed out what you referred to as a "willful omission".
Daniel Kelly There isn’t any “military grade” CHF barrel for the AR15/M16 platform, at least as far as Colt’s TDP is concerned. Why is that? Because it was determined that CHF is not capable of the accuracy of a button rifles barrel in military tests. CHF is a scam. It doesn’t last longer, it’s not more accurate, it’s just a way for companies to manufacture the most barrels for the lowest cost.
This is a simple comparison of things to look for and a test sample size of one... I wouldn't overthink it. I would also venture to say that this video is more helpful than your comments. That being said, our barrels are more refined than hammer forged barrels that are made in seconds and the result is that they perform better. The devil is in the details, even if this video falls short for you. Thank you for watching.
good looking groups there; good stuff
Mrgunsngear Channel pretty sure I’ve seen you shoot several tighter groups with a CHF barrel....
Matthew Thwing no you haven't lol.
This is why you are such a good reviewer. You are always watching and learning, and willing to change a previously held belief. Proof of this, is that you are the only Guntuber that comments on other channels on a regular basis.
@@DeeboComing I have with a stock 6920 using 75..77 grain 1.to 1.15 consistent MOA at 100 yards till the barrel starts heating up ..really surprised at the results of the CHF Barrel in this video ???
not a true apple to apple got 2 different flash hider
The most consistent, smallest-group shooting barrel I have ever shot (at least a few hundred rounds each) is my Criterion 18" 1-8 HBAR barrel I bought and installed in my AR15 a couple years ago. I'm shooting 3/8" groups at 100 yards (my chosen zero).
One thing I did also which I believe in now, is lapping the barrel seat face. I got a lapping tool from Brownells and lapped all my AR uppers. It tightened-up the groups on all of them, one of which was the focus of what I considered a defect until lapping the surface. I noticed the finish was applied unevenly on all of them which explained things for me. Hope it helps others...
That big of a differece huh might have yo try it out
@@djupchurch2673 Yes it did. I hate when people stretch the truth to the point it's not really the whole truth, so I'm telling you 3/8" is true and I repeated it to proove to myself I was not just lucky. Two factors may have helped, no wind that day, and I was shooting Black Hills 40gr varmint ammo, but I had been shooting that same ammo all along with that AR anyway. The only difference was lapping, so it proved to me that was a great improvement. Besides, it's not hard to (I had never done it before)...well worth the time, money and effort in my mind.
@@dandexinventorwhy the good fuck are you shooting useless ass 40 gr out of a 1/8? Also, you need to specify group. 3 shot (useless)? 5 shot (meh, ok) or 10 shot (what should be a group)
I've just installed a Criterion Core barrel in my latest 5.56 build. I haven't run a lot of rounds through it as of yet, but let me tell you, I am more than pleased with the preliminary results.
Really glad to hear that!
3yr later review?
I think it's like anything I think there are good and bad hammer forged barrels and good and bad cut rifled barrels. I've seen many debates on single point vs button rifling and they both seem to be almost the same. Chrome lined seems to always have a negative impact on accuracy to some degree though which is to be expected. I've shot some amazing CHF barrels from SAKO and Blaser and I've also had fantastic results from Criterion. Running a Hybrid heavy 6.5 Creedmoor Criterion in a STAG 10 and having no trouble at all at 1000M on targets about 20" around. cut the barrel back to 19" and the velocity didn't change much from the 22". I'm less than 100 FPS difference (really about 6o-70) than when it was longer.
Just ordered one of these exact barrels. Can't wait to see how it shoots!
How does it shoot?
I'd like to know also
I have the same Criterion barrel you used and my receiver face was squared off by DTECH. My barrel shoots better than any other barrels I've owned. I had your 18" barrel and it too shot great. They clean up easily and there is very little copper fouling after 100 rounds. Maybe 2 patches. I'm really amazed at the precision of Criterion barrels.
We're glad to hear your barrels are doing their job!
I’ve never had groups THAT tight from your barrels, but you guys do make a damn good barrel nonetheless
I haven’t either but I don’t have that rest 😂
Also a lot of other factors go into the accuracy of a gun that can change slightly from gun to gun
What contour/thickness are you running? This can make a huge difference in performance.
Also, a nice upper to barrel fit should have to be heat fitted.
if your upper receiver had a loose fit on the barrel when installing it and you didnt have a bolt matched to the Criterion barrel that would be the difference right there for larger grouping....see a lot of installs where they put stainless shims if there is any play in the barrel extension when installing on a upper receiver with subpar specs.
The actual bolt can also have a serious impact on accuracy, many people dont know that their bolts aren't quite up to spec or barely fit within tolerances.
I sure would like to see a standard birdcage flash hider on both uppers, it makes such a huge difference in accuracy switching from muzzle device to muzzle device.
Is there a "I live less than 5 miles away" discount? How did I not know you guys were THAT CLOSE?
Between you guys and Midwest Industries WI is good to go. :)
Feel free to stop in or give us a call and we will take care of you ; )
Dont forget about BCM another Wisconsin company
I just built a savage 7mm R.E.M. mag using one of your barrels that shoots .1875” groups at 100 yards using Horady 175 ELDX bullets producing 3133 FPS. Still working up to pressure. Can’t be happier with it.
3 round groups are lame, and you didnt get that on a 5 or 10 round. Criterion barrels are top notch, but stop it.
@jamesstephenson2346
What do you expect to gain by addressing other shooters this way? An ego stroke, most likely. You’re the guy who, only a year or so ago, just found out the information you are throwing in his face and you only discovered it then because someone with more experience told you so. Stop being such a pretentious dick. Stop it.
sucks waiting 5 months for your 16" mid length Core series right meow but if it reflects these groups, WORTH IT!
Awesome barrels I love my 16" Hybrid Nitride version 1:8 Mid Length it's insanely accurate even with budget ammo
That's what I'm after, where did you buy yours?
Primary Arms has then on sale right now.
I know this is a pretty old video. I watched it multiple times before and after I bought a Criterion 18" Hybrid AR barrel last year (rifle gas). So I want to share a little bit of my personal experience with this barrel. Hope it'll be useful to someone.
After I received the barrel last year, I built a SPR from it. The first thing I noticed was the fit between the barrel and my Aero Precision M4E1 enhanced upper was a little loose. The barrel was wobbling a bit inside the receiver. AP's upper is pretty solid and high quality, and I tightened the barrel nut to 55 lb*ft as Aero Precision specified. The first few trips to the range, it didn't shoot well at all. I tried different ammos. Always 1+ MOA, sometimes maybe close to 2 MOA. I wasn't happy about it. So I reassembled everything, tightened the barrel nut a little bit more and made sure everything else was put together according to the specs. Still it didn't shoot well. Then I found videos talking about bedding between the barrel and upper receiver. Because the loose fit in my case, I decided to do that. So I bedded my barrel and the upper using Loctite 620, which got rid of all the play between them. They're literally glued together super solid. Now it shot noticeably better. I could get sub-MOA sometimes (with IMI 77gr razor core), but not consistently. Most of time it's still 1+ MOA. It's not to my expectation yet, but at least better than before. With my other two WOA ARs (one complete varmint upper from WOA and one I built using WOA predator barrel), I could consistently get 0.6 ~ 0.7 MOA easy. Some of the best groups I got with them are 0.2 ~ 0.3 MOA. And I was using the same ammos I had at home. So I knew I wasn't the major limiting factor for the Criterion barrel.
Since then, I left that upper alone for months since I had more accurate rifles to play with. This year I somehow had an urge to see if I could possibly improve the Criterion's accuracy a little bit more. To do that, I needed to remove the "glued" barrel from the receiver first, which took me quite an effort with a propane torch and some hard pushes. Fortunately it came out clean. Then I reinstalled it to a new BCM upper. BCM upper has a reputation of being undersized. So I had to heat it up to thermal fit the barrel in. This time there was no play at all which was a good sign. I then put everything together and took it to the range. I felt the accuracy was probably better than last year, but still most of time it's 1+ MOA. For that trip, I got only one sub-MOA group out of like 15. So I was trying to figure out if there's anything else I can do. I realized I was using an old BCG from another rifle. So I decided to swap in a brand new BCG I had. Another range trip. This time, it still shot most of ammos 1+ MOA. But for IMI 77gr razor core, man, I got 3 sub-MOA groups out of 4. The first group was mediocre because it's probably refouling the barrel. The next 3 groups were ~0.5 MOA, ~0.6 MOA, ~0.6 MOA, pretty consistently. Now I was happy about it. It seems Criterion barrel is a little pickier than my WOA barrels. For several match ammos I have, WOA can shoot most of them sub-MOA consistently. But for Criterion, IMI is the only one I found so far that can shoot. But still I'm happy I found it (I don't reload). Another lesson I learned from this is apparently BCG matters in accuracy.
I can back what you said up as I not only lapped my upper face contact area to the barrel, but also used a high quality Sharpe's BCG when I built it to begin with, so my .75 MOA starting point was not bad...yet I wanted more out of it (actually less...of a group that is). All of these things make a difference which appears to add up together. You did not say anything about lapping...did you, or would you be willing to try it is it would bring your group even tighter?
Good luck!
@@dandexinventor I actually thought about lapping the upper receiver face when the barrel was installed on my M4E1 enhanced upper last year. But with that upper, normal lapping tool doesn't work. So I didn't pursue that route.
Since then, I read some mixed opinions on whether people should always lap the upper receiver. From your experience, how much have you gained in terms of accuracy from lapping the upper? I'm curious.
@@Ming_USA I did all of my uppers and they all showed some degree of improvement. One of them was already close to being true, so I only noticed my average group improve by .15 MOA. I could tell is already close to true because the lapping tool only took off a very small amount before th ewhole face was showing lap marks. With the others, the worst one took me lapping for a few seconds, look to see how much was coming off, then a few more seconds...repeated until I saw the whole face with new lapping marks. This one improved from .750MOA to .37MOA (average over 20 rounds for my test before and after on all of them).
I was learning a lot at the time and kept notes to see what affected what.
I learned almost everything affects impact placement, but group size seemed to get better and stay there if the ammo and my skills were consistant.
The one thing which threw me off at first was barrel temp, so I learned to shoot 3 rounds before any shots which needed to count. I believe tempature affects harmonics as well, so I learned not to tune my brake/tuner until my barrel was warm. All that made a big difference...now I'm wondering how to get away from that so cold bore shots are not flyers more often than not. If hunting, can't shoot warm up shots.
I might have to try my DeWalt cordless heat gun in winter, on hunts, but living in the desert means my barrel is usually over 100F 8 months out of the year anyway.
Good luck with your lapping if you can get it done. The other route (assuming your upper is true) is watch Johnny's Reloading and learn to tune your ammo to your gun. That is what I'm doing now...it's a great hobby...keeps me busy and out of trouble, lol.
@@dandexinventor Thanks man for all the information and details! That sounds very promising. What I heard before was if the upper is from a reputable manufacturer, usually there's no need to lap it. But seems you're getting pretty consistent improvement by doing it. I may give it a try for my next build.
I've also read about the cold bore (and very hot bore) flier before as you mentioned. But my understanding is it happens more often with thin barrels. Heavy/bull barrels are less susceptible to temperature fluctuations. But I'll keep an eye on it when I shoot cold bore next time.
About reloading, I've done some research on it, but not gone down that route yet. With two kids to raise, I just don't have that much time to do it at this stage of my life. :) But I feel I'll eventually do it when I hit the next stage of my life. lol.
Came here thinking about getting one of their 18” barrels not knowing is was going to get some good tech. Thank you for this. And if the others commenting thank you!
I bought your 22inch barrel for my Springfield m1a in an EBR chassis. I haven't shot it yet but after this video I'm very excited to see how it works out. Looks like y'all do great work
My question lies within the actual assembly of the upper reciever, was each assembled/accurrized the same way.
What kind of round count lifespans are you seeing out of your barrels, just curious.
This question is still unanswered?!!!
10 rounds
I am trying to decide between a WOA or Wilson Combat for a 16" or 18" build....shooting 69-77gr loads 100 to 600 yards.
But the Criterion looks really impressive here. Better than I would have thought. Now I am even more confused. Thanks 😊
He just shared the basic info difference between a chrome lined barrel, and a cold hammer forged barrel
The CHF will last 2-3 times longer, but with slightly less accuracy
That is the only difference between them
Who makes this CHF barrel? Factory DDM4A1 produced a five-shot group last weekend of .96, four of the shots were under half an inch with Nosler 69GR. My DD barrels are all MOA with match ammo and have nearly shot MOA groups with IMI 55GR and Wolf Gold.
Yeah, a dd chf barrel shoots far better than this chf barrel used. Heck I got a 14.7 PSA chf barrel that even my old ass can get 2 inch groups or better off a back of a chair in the woods!
Very interesting video and I like how tight the group is, but I also get skeptical when these test are performed without giving the information on the other barrel manufacturer.
The point of this video wasn't to call out the manufacturer of the other barrel in this comparison (I have a couple of personal friends that work for that company and I don't want to talk ill of their product, especially since this is a fairly anecdotal comparison using only two separate uppers). The goal of this particular clip was to recommend shooters do their homework when purchasing a high quality rifle barrel. If rifle builders don't have a bore scope or gauging instruments on hand, reading unbiased consumer reviews and researching national record barrel performance in various different rifle disciplines is probably one of the best ways to accomplish that objective.
Holy Days!!! I knew that the barrel has an impact on the accuracy of the rifle, but I am shocked to see the difference in performance between two barrels that I would have thought performed similarly!!
No chance that you would disclose the maker of the CHF barrel?
I'm guessing BCM. Their barrels are shit for how much they cost.
Daniel Defense
@@workingr No. Can tell by the profile and finish it's not a DD. Their barrels are capable of half-inch groups at 100 with match ammo. Shot a 0.96 last weekend with a DD M4A1, four of the shots were under half an inch.
@@tx611 DD makes the bets barrels
CRITERION BARREL ROCKS, SMOOTH AND HOPEFULLY THEY ARE ALL LIKE THAT, BECAUSE I AM GOING TO ORDER ONE.
HOLY COW, WHAT A GROUP.
Sam G. I can honestly say I’ve done this at 25 yards standing and prone at 100 yards with my razor 1x6 and my ADM 14.5 which has a criterion barrel. The Vortex LPVO class was awesome and really showed me what these barrels can do
I got a bcm 1/8 twist it was all good till about 2000 rounds in now im haveing accuracy issues hand lapped button barrel was hopeing for better results if i got a barrel from yall
I wonder if he bolt and the rest of the upper (as well as assembly techniques) had anything to do with the barrel results?
Got a criterion prefit for my big horn in 224 valkyrie. Doesn't shoot worth a crap with factory ammo or handloads, but I'm still not giving up, looking for a problem with my assembly first.
anonymous anon that round is just crap
Im looking foward to trying out your barrels.
Was the Criterion barrel used in this video chrome lined?
Yes it was.
Great piece ! When is the next run of 6.5 Swedish Mauser M1 Garand barrels ?
The Criterion barrel shot very tight groups. I like it.
I have a question about proper cleaning. When I clean my rifle, will a bronze brush hurt the chrome?
This is the tightest shooting barrel I have ever owned and I don't want to 'eff it up!
The bronze brush itself shouldn't hurt the chrome, but they do tend to pick up pieces of debris/primer material/other abrasives that may wear the barrel a bit more prematurely than if you just used patches and a one piece coated cleaning rod. It's a pretty minimal difference that would only become evident with excessive cleaning.
We have an article that details our recommended cleaning procedures here:
criterionbarrels.com/criterion-recommended-rifle-barrel-cleaning-procedures
Thats what I'm looking for. Thanks. While I'm here can I suggest a Hybrid profile chrome lined barrel in 6.5 Creedmore and 6.5 Grendel. You barrels shoot very well and are priced very well. I have been exploring other caliber options than 5.56 and 308 and I want a chrome lined barrel.
bro your shooting bullets thru a barrel with hot gas, bronze brush wont hurt anything.
@@hambone950 I know that now. (that post is six years old by the way) When you're first starting out, its better to ask first than find out you effed something up.
@@rdsii64 did you get a cirterion barrel?
Is a headspaced bolt necessary to achieve the best possible accuracy? Or can you still achieve the advertised accuracy with a standard Mil Spec bolt (e.g. Colt bcg)? Also, which gas block do you recommend for your pencil contour barrels (.625 diameter)?
I use to believe that all bolts are the same. Thats not true at all. The loose tolerances that are beneficial to combat dirt that gets in the chamber. Is the same loose tolerance that will hurt accuracy. But aid in reliability.
Basically, the tighter the tolerance the greater the accuracy at the expense of reliability. So if its a combat AR15. Then a standard bolt is ok. A DMR? Then you want the best accuracy possible.
Well frick I guess I'm buying one of your barrels! I love accurate guns. If it won't shoot a half moa I don't want it. Even if it's an AR15.
My fn barrel shoots thise groups too w match ammo at 100 yard out of a seekis build..i have your 16 inch 223 wild barrel when the fn stops..
The point of a cold hammer forged barrel isn't accuracy, it's barrel life.
-I would say it is efficiency in manufacturing, not accuracy or barrel life... and it is a good method. However, with a chrome lined barrel, it is the uniformity, tolerances, and quality of the chrome lined interior that will determine barrel life and accuracy, not how the rifling is formed. Because we hand lap bores to perfectly uniform dimensions prior to installing chrome lining, it removes any variations in the depth and uniformity of the chrome lined interior. This makes the barrel more accurate and more durable as it removes any thin spots and variations in the depth of the chrome throughout the bore. As chrome lined barrels wear, the chrome lining will eventually begin to crack and then finally chip due to heat and pressure. Once the chrome lining chips, the barrel will never shoot to the same standard again. Our chrome lined barrels not only shoot better (on par with any of our raw stainless-steel barrels as they are held to the exact same internal tolerances) but last longer than barrels made without the same attention to detail and perfectly uniform chrome lining.
Very interested in a comparison at the 100,000 round count. About 5 years of training will push you past that. The real appeal to me is the lifetime, unlimited round count warranties FN and competitors offer. I cant verify but often i notice CHF barrels feel lighter, yet similar mass.
doubt the rifling in any barrel would last 100k rounds
I have been looking at barrels for my 6.5 Grendel and your name keeps coming up during my searches. I'm looking for at least no more then 1MOA with handloads. I looking to spend in the neighborhood of $300 dollars. So I'm looking at Wilson Combat, Rainier Arms, McGowen and Criterion and it looks like I'm leaning towards Criterion Barrel. I'm going to give a fiddle and dance for my sorrows. I'm a dad of 3 girls. One in collage and 2 will be there soon. So, M O N E Y it a priority for me and I can't waist it. That means I get one shot and I gotta keep it. The BIG Q? What happens if it's not a shooter? I go though my load development and still 1.5 MOA. What then?
All of our barrels are capable of well under 1 MOA. How the rifle is built and what components are selected make a huge difference in performance. All of this being said, we offer a satisfaction guarantee... so its fool-proof. If you are not happy we will make it right by you.
I had/have a 18” 6.5 Grendel barrel from Criterion, shoots terrible as it warms up. Like 2 MOA to 4-5 MOA. I’m not talking mag dumps, just shooting for accuracy. Called Criterion, their customer service was terrible, I just asked for a RMA to send it back so they could check it out. I was going to let Criterion decide what they wanted to do once they figured out what was wrong. They completely ignored me, so I replaced it with a Faxon Match which shot easily under 1 MOA.
Criterion does not care about their product once they sell it. Buyer beware.
There are plenty of shooters that use chf barrels like dd,spikes,fn and even psa that get moa. My dd does it and even my 14.7 psa is easily 2 moa or better, if i do my job. With ff and larue triggers
The cold hammer forged chrome lined is probably less accurate but it a jungle or swamp like environment, wet and humid or dry and dusty, rainy or snowing, extreme heat or frigidly cold the chrome line CHF would most like hold up better than the stainless steel or nitrided match barrel! So are you going into war and just need to protect your self while being out in the weather for days at a time or are you in a tournament where you can clean your firearm afterwards and put in back in the safe. This is the decision one needs to consider do I need to shoot the hair off a flies ass or do I just need to land a hit on my target. To have both is the best bet
Bore scoping comparison is one thing . Am I missing something ? You are comparing your .223 Wylde barrel to the competition which is a 5.56 .223 barrel . Shouldn’t you compare the competition with a comparable .223 wylde ? If I missed something please correct me .
This is a simple comparison between commonly found CHF barrels on the market and our barrels for the AR-15. The major difference between the .223 Wylde and the 5.56 NATO chamber is a minor taper in the throat of the Wylde chamber. This taper produces more consistent chamber pressures which aids in producing better (more consistent) accuracy. Both chambers will effectively fire both 5.56 NATO and .223 Remington cartridges. This is not an apples to apples comparison as the manufacturing processes are very different between the two barrels. It is really highlighting the extra steps and the more refined nature of the barrels that we produce for AR-15's vs. what is commonly used as an alternative. This is not a scientific study and should only be taken as a basic public service announcement.
Now just to wait for supply to catch up...
LMT uses a chrome-lined, button-cut barrel instead of CHF barrels, which is different than most high-end military contract rifles. I wonder if Criterion makes them for LMT or if they use in-house barrels.
Mike Rock makes barrels for LMT. Rock Creek barrels
Ah, the magic marketing word "billet" was used. Since a billet only means a chunk of metal, it's a pointless adjective when describing a receiver. ALL machined parts start with a billet of some form. I thank you for using the term, though, since I can now discount anything else you say.
Forgings are pressed into shape by hundreds of tons of pressure, billet is cut from a piece of forged bar stock. Generally forged receivers are more rigid and lighter in weight... take your pick. But then again, what do I know?
I would be interested to see how you turn your barrels (outer profile) and also how you rifle them
Bcm cold hammer forged barrel huh?
Drew Baglin Yep
I thought the same thing.
FN makes bcm chf barrels.. good chance it's either an fn or dd barrel tho
Judging by the accuracy, I would assume so
Sold I'm getting one for my 16 inch.
At 8.20 you adjusted windage for what reason? The gun wasnt grouping much less consistent enough to even tell which direction to move it. That was atleast a 6 inch group. It looked like it got shot with buckshot.
My Columbia River Arms 3P polygonal rifled barrel is half MOA with a 6x scope @100 yards. Wonder if it’s quarter MOA with one of them fancy scopes...
I bought mine from optics planet. It has a burr in front of the gas port. Only shoots 1" with immaculate handloads. I need better. Copper free except for in front of the burr. I havent shot it further than 100 but dont have high expectations. Shopping again. My M1A with Criterion Could shoot .5" consistently with my handload and a tuned rifle. Did very well in DMR matches.
Hi UXO Tony. I'm sorry to hear you have run into some complications with your barrel. Feel free to give us a call at (262) 628-8749 or shoot us an email at contact@criterionbarrels.com and Michael will get you set up with a recall tag. We offer a satisfaction guarantee, and would be more than happy to inspect, repair, or replace your barrel if necessary.
How do I order a Criterion barrel? I am in the middle of a 300 BO build and I don't have a barrel yet.
Any distributor online, Brownells, Primary Arms ect
Would be helpful if you put your specs and links in the description.
Well im sold. Question. Will the nitride finish have better accuracy that the chrome? Id like to buy one at the end of the week. Can find any information or videos on this.
Negative. All of our barrels are held to the exact same internal tolerances and produce the same level of accuracy.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc Awesome! looking forward to getting one of these bad boys!
Are u guys making a 224 Valkyrie barrel?
Button rifle> hammer forged in performance
Hammer forged > button rifle in appearance thru a bore scope
It really depends on the button rifling company.. There are some shoddy button rifled barrels out there which are inferior to a good cold hammer forged barrel, and vice versa.
With that being said though, the button rifling process has a higher ceiling when it comes to quality
False CHF is 100% better and u will also get a much longer lasting barrel as well
Please explain the difference between Criterion and stadart bored barrels, like Bartlein?
Any plans in offering a 1-7 twist barrel in the future?
We have a 1-7.7 model in stock designed for the really heavy bullets (CRI-A2BBL). 1-7 twist Criterion barrels can be ordered through Precision Firearms or Compass Lake Engineering as well!
Criterion Barrels, Inc. Thanks for the reply! I used one of your 1-10 twist barrels on a 308 build with great success.
This honestly gets on my nerves button cut rifle barrels are not as smooth as cold hammer forged. In fact cold hammer forged barrels are levels of magnitude smoother than button cut rifle barrels and you know this. You really should spread mis information like this about cold hammer forged barrels
Impressive difference.
Do you guys do custom barrels - I'd like a 338 federal that'll fit a propietary Robinson Arms 308
We work with a few custom shops like Precision Firearms that may be able to help out on that front. For in-house work we typically require production runs of 25+ pieces to effectively offset setup and tooling costs.
Criterion Barrels, Inc. OK thanks for the reply
Did the upper with CBI barrel have a matched headspace bolt?
The bolt was checked to ensure proper headspace with the barrel. This particular rifle uses an ADM Enhanced Bolt Carrier Group.
Do you offer any of your barrels with a pinned gas block ? Thanks, great video.
Pinned gas blocks are said to decrease accuracy due to heating and metal displacement. Judging by the fact that they are a "Precision oriented" Co. I would say likely not.
do they really decrease accuracy?
What handguard is that on the black criterion Barrel upper the one in the beginning of the video .
The black upper (with the CHF barrel) features an ADM Lowlight rail. I have one installed on one of my personal SPR builds and I've been pretty happy with it.
anyone know which handguard that is on the FDE upper w/ the Criterion barrel? It's at 7:15
Looks like a midwest industries
Or an American defense manufacturing upper
4:08 there's your answer
Thanks for this vid! Awesome!!
Why should a hammer forged barrel having tooling marks? No tooling happens in the barrel, does it?
The mandrel they are formed around wear and can still have imperfections that would be imprinted on the bore. Much like button rifling the quality of the barrel is more dependent on who is making the barrel rather than how the barrel is made.
My 20 inch hybrid chrome lined got delivered today. I have a bunch of powder, primed cases, and 77 grain bullet set aside for it.
What kind of barrel life can I expect?
Barrel life depends on a number of factors (load recipe, case composition, rate of fire, maintenance procedures, definition of "shot out", etc.).
That said, we typically see a barrel life of 17,000 - 20,000 rounds through a rifle before we see our 3-Gun shooters swap out our chrome lined barrels. These barrels are typically engaged in rapid fire strings of 30-60 rounds at a time, using a mix of inexpensive short range ammunition, as well as long range match ammunition. The service life criteria for these shooters normally involves being able to consistently shoot sub-MOA groups.
That said, we have seen barrels last significantly longer than the aforementioned service life. The highest sub-MOA round count I have run across was a shooter who had put 30,000+ rounds through his chrome lined barrel. According to the customer it still shot great, but it was getting difficult to clean (the high level of throat erosion was causing fouling issues).
I hope this helps with answering your question!
Honestly I was only expecting you to respond with 8,000 to 12,000 rounds. Now I want order another one for my 308 AR.
rdsii64 😂 yea the knowledge they throw out is abundant
Now if u made a barrel for the savage 110ba stealth chambered in 338 lapua
Jeffrey Brannon Ill take one of those too!
Who makes that black hand guard? I can't find it any where.
That is an American Defense Manufacturing "Low Light Rail".
If only mine(18 1in7 CM) ever shot even close to this with any handload recipe under the sun(69-77), I wouldn't have spent beaucoup bucks and replaced it with a Bart, which did deliver these groups.
Was a solid barrel, but not even remotely close to this. More like a .6-.75 true average with best loads, loaded(24.1g Var + Berger 77 OTM) or factory. And yes, trued and bedded, tube aligned, ADM upper, JP bolt, , MI guard, TTD trigger, turned by CLE.
Would love to know what you guys are doing to achieve these groups. Though I only know of 2 other people with Crits(ARs, one SS one CM), neither of them shoot like this, and they are both run by more than capable shooters.
Does anyone here have an AR Crit that mirrors these groups? Handloads / factory? Which barrel? SS / CM?
I still think these are solid barrels for the $, and do recommend them, just want to know what else I have to do to get mine close to these results...
Regardless, excellent groups, excellent shooting(especially on a waving target)
My guess is they tested out at least a couple hundred barrels to cherry pick this barrel of perfection that shoots better than 900 dollar barrels..read the comments no one else gets these kinda groups.. they are good barrels but not as good as the one they advertised.
Holy fuck, take my money!
Why did that one barrel shoot so much better than the other. What is done to the barrel that was shooting the tightest group, to make it shoot the tightest group . how did it do that
Details... we take extra steps during production like honing, hand-lapping, polishing chambers, precision cut crowns, and many other details that make for a more refined, more accurate, and more durable product.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc thank you for the reply. How does polishing Chambers and honing the bore and such produce much better groups then a factory BarreI. The factory Barrel was producing two and three inch groups, and the Criterion barrel was shooting 1/4 groups. I'm trying to imagine how simply polishing the chamber and such can produce such dramatic differences. Could you please explain.
I'm curious because I plan on buying a Criterion Barrel, but I'm only able to find them being sold by Northland Shooter Supply
@@squirrelmaster760710 The extra steps ensure that the bullet to barrel interface is more consistent. This reduces fouling, bullet deformation, and increases consistency which translates to superior accuracy and durability. If you have more questions, please feel free to give us a call.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc thank you
Dang man, .278. Ha, that's pretty good for an AR.
When accuracy matters White Oak Armament, Criterion, ODIN Works and Daniel Defense are what you need to be running. There are many "blasters" and mallninjas in the AR15 crowd. A small percentage wants more out of their rifle and knows Wyatt Earp said it best. "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything!"
The rest of you can carry on with your high speed, low drag magazine dumps and playing with your Rare Breed FRT15 triggers. With any luck you can repeatedly hit a 8" steel plate at 25 yards. Those ^ kinds of barrels can and will hit a marble or dime at 100+ yards.
youre comparing a match grade barrel to a combat barrel. why not compare the m4 to a accuracy international bolt gun? you cant because they are tools used for different jobs.
Incorrect. Our barrels are in use by numerous special forces units, law enforcement, federal agencies, and armed citizens specifically for tactical applications. Our barrels are simply more refined as we don't compromise on performance. Why would one not want a barrel that is more accurate, especially if ones life was on the line? Our barrels are made for combat applications but deliver match grade accuracy. If your "combat barrel" isn't capable of match grade accuracy, I would suggest you reevaluate your priorities. It's 2021... you don't need to choose between accuracy or reliability, you can and should have both.
i said that because u called it a match grade barrel. i know u guys make great barrels and i dont know what chf barrel company u are referring to but i have an idea. i have an fn chf barrel that has over 12000 rounds of nothing but m855 and mk262 rounds through it and it still shoots sub moa. its a 10.5 in barrel. i was in a 14hr firefight in Afghanistan and in that time i shot out a brand new colt mk18 barrel and ever since then i have bought chf barrels that go on anything i might have to use for real. i would like to get one of your barrels for my mk 18 and see how it compares but since covid im out of work so ill have to wait till i can afford one. and im not shiting on u at all, like i said i know u make awesome barrels i just said that because u said it was a match grade barrel so i was thinking match not combat.
@@juansimon5802 Understood. Mass produced CHF barrels used to fulfill military contracts are not more durable, accurate, or reliable. They are simply the lowest bidder that meets minimum requirements... If one has a choice in the equipment they choose, which many special forces units, swat teams, federal agencies, LE, and civilians do, why not select a barrel that is more accurate, reliable, and durable... there is no need to settle for whatever Uncle Sam chooses to issue you. There is a lot of marketing smoke and mirrors surrounding CHF barrels but the reality is many are pretty rough and the 4 MOA accuracy requirement for many mil contracts is embarrassing.
It isn't 1999 anymore and in 2021, the same match grade rifles found on the field of competition are also found on battlefields around the world. Quality barrels, free-floating handguards, optics, ammunition, and a comprehensive understanding of what makes an AR run like a sewing machine is the new standard. If you're building a rifle to take into harms way and it is a tool used to keep yourself and others safe, why settle for anything less than the very best? Match grade performance for fighting rifles is the way, period. Anything less is just sloppy and unprofessional. Standards are a thing and the bar needs to be raised.
What did you use to measure the groups on the computer?
The program used for this video was the On Target Precision Calculator.
well i just bought their 18-inch hybrid ,,,,it will interesting how it will stack up against my SS white oak armament barrel?
Log your finding on here please. I'm still trying to figure out what brand to go with
@@OperationGetReady i have an odin works 18 inch DMR also
So how do they stack up against the CBI 223 wild? Iv been researching a couple other brands this past week, and as of right now I'm leaning towards the cbi.. the other 2 brand I looked into are ballistic advantage, and faxon..I'd like to hear your thoughts on white oak and Odin works
@@OperationGetReady i havent shot the odin yet te criterion seems to be a little finicky on ammo if i had to put money on it i would bet on the WOA barrel although that could change with the odin , i would not bother with ballistic advantage. faxon maybe... i think Wilson barrels to be better than faxon
Yep I did all the digging I could on faxon, and Ballistic, they are ok. I thought my search was over when I saw the extra efforts and love criterion puts into the making of barrels. You know, I just saw an interview with john Krieger a few minutes ago that makes me wanna keep looking... I'm just a bit scared to find the price tag at the end of my search.. let me know how the Odin barrel handles when you have formed an opinion on it
What was the twist rate for the cold hammer forged barrel I never heard it?
1:7 Twist
@@CriterionbarrelsInc I am intrigued by your barrels and the reputation they have. This video is a nice demonstration of what you barrels are capable of. However, I also believe the twist rate played a factor in the how the competitor's barrel dis not shoot as well.
Also, I don't remember if it was mentioned in the video, but what ammunition brand, weight, and type are you using?
I know you guys make pretty decent barrels, but I'm not sure it's fair to compare a barrel with a 5.56 chamber against a 223 Wylde chamber. The 223 Wylde chamber is always going to be more inherently accurate because the throat has a lot less slop in it. If your going to compare bore characteristics, you need to eliminate confounding factors. Using different chambers pretty much nullifies any validity in your test results.
How many PRS or benchrest shooters use CHF barrels? Most use single point cut rifled barrels a few use button rifled. Not a single one uses CHF.
How do you have so little recoil
It is a combination of good prone technique from a skilled shooter, a properly built and timed rifle with tight headspace, the weight of the rifle, the rest that is being used, etc. For testing, we do our best to remove the human element from the equation as much as possible. Consistency equates to accuracy.
Were both barrels seasoned?
Both barrels were seasoned and had roughly equivalent round counts on them at the time of this video. While they were both well cleaned the day prior, a few fouling shots were put through each upper before filming.
Good video although the reality is you're too biased to do something like this. You could very easily just be intentionally shooting a little off target to make your barrel look so much better than the competition. Although no matter what that Criterion barrel put out some serious groups.
A healthy dose of skepticism never hurts!
We still have that CHF barrel on hand if you would like to do your own independent accuracy test with it.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc Or I could come drop by and we could do the same thing with my gun. My worn out and poorly maintained barrel vs your Criterion.
Criterion made this video? Excuse me if I don’t take this at face value
Richard, I encourage skepticism. There are a lot of marketing smoke and mirrors out there and I am with you on taking things at face value.
I have one criterion 410 SS barrel I’ve shot quite a bit. From prone it shoots 1-1.5 MOA with most bulk ammo. With match ammo it’s consistently sub MOA. I had one of their 300 blk barrels and it was also sub MOA which is less common apparently.
@@K-bob_45 Thanks for the feedback. Our .300 Blackout barrels feature a unique rifling design that was specifically designed and tested for the .300 Blackout. Although this cartridge is amazing, it is not known for accuracy. Our rifling design works to squeeze as much accuracy as possible for the .300 Blackout.
Is there an easy answer on which BCGs go well with these barrels or do I really have to trial and error headspace everything? I plan on doing it anyway just to make sure, hoping my local gun store can do it for better than the price of a gauge set, but it'd be nice to have a starting point to go off. Ordered one of your .308 Hybrid CL barrels to replace an Aero precision barrel I wasn't too happy with. Was going to use the Aero BCG I had with it, at least until I could find something better. Any recommendations welcome.
As far as .308 AR's go I usually recommend going with Fulton Armory or JP Enterprises. Those are the two manufacturers we use for in-house headspace testing (DPMS should be good to go as well).
We have found that some Aero bolts may headspace with our barrels, but the range of tolerance they hold varies from the DPMS standard, so many of their bolts will close on a no-go gauge.
Ok thank you sir. Got a headspace gauge set on the way. To my disbelief, not a single gun shop in town had a set. In the event that I'm out of luck with the Aero BCG (which will definitely tick me off, I hate having almost interchangeable parts laying around) I'll have some idea where to turn. Also, I'm really glad you're indicating its a DPMS pattern. If I'd just thrown an Armalite pattern in the mix I'd really be kicking myself right now
forget about the AR barrels for a moment, M-1 Garand barrels are what I need something with some power to it...barrel replacement.
I'm calling B.S. here. what was shown was the difference between a lapped barrel and a non lapped bbl. Not cut, or button vs. hammer forged. A ture hammer forged barrel is done with a polished carbide die inside the bore and leaves a virtually mirrored surface. Far from what was shown here, where as a typical bbl has to be hanlapped to give a similar finish. ( The rougher bbl. looked like a typical poorly finished button rifled bbl. or a cut bbl cut with a dull die). A well finished lapped hammer forged bbl. is the best of both worlds!
the only reason manufacturers dis. Hammer forging is thar machinery is prohibitive for all but the largest companies. It's easier to run the tech. down rather than face the truth of not wanting or being able to foot the bill for hte machinery.
KnifeMaker
Why the bell is everyone just accepting this as objective? CHF barrel shoots as bad as an AK? Lol. Yes, sure a Geissele or Daniel Defense CHF barrel is a 3 min of angle to even 4, and I’m an orangoutang. Lol.
what model would you recommend for 3 gun? I have a super heavy barrel I'm looking to replace.
I would recommend taking a look at the CORE Series barrels. It is an excellent option for three gun due to its ability to absorb heat while also being balances and fast for rapid target acquisition and transitions.
Ah ya… your target is blowing around in the wind.
Make a 7mm08 9 twist ar 10 barrel 22 inch.
Realgrower hi
Wonder why he’s got buis on that Gun. Must be a mall ninja
@@pookiemonkey1474 what are you talking about?
Hey criterion thanks for not responding. I have been wanting to try a shilen barrel anyway. I have 2 criterions on savage actions that shoot fine. But you dont respond so i will spend money elsewhere.
@@Dougarrowhead Hello Realgrower. Unfortunately we will not be producing a 7mm08 barrel for a DPMS pattern LR-308 rifle. It sounds interesting, but you are the only one to ever request this combination. Producing a single, one off custom barrel is generally both time and cost prohibitive as it ties up normal production flow. Best of luck to you in the future.
We wanted to see how it stacked up against a Criterion ………
It DONT!! Haha
Comparing a 223 Wylde chamber with a 5.56 NATO seems a bit dishonest.
How so? This is simply a sample size of one looking at what separates our barrels (to include the superior .223 Wylde chamber which features a minor taper in the throat that aids in producing more consistent chamber pressures and therefore, better accuracy) from other commonly produced AR-15 barrels on the market. Our twist rates, chambers, materials, and every other aspect of our barrels are obsessed over and the result is a more refined product. Our quality and knowledge of what makes a rifle perform is what separates us from other barrel manufacturers. We are not looking for equal and as this video demonstrates, we are not equal. That is the point.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc I do think your barrels are of superior quality generally. I thought the test was dishonest because you focused on the cold-hammer forged aspect, and appeared to avoid saying what the competitor's chamber was - only mentioning it off-hand near the 3:20 mark. I have a feeling that lot of people missed that, and assumed it was apples vs apples.
@@Subtlenimbus I do appreciate the feedback. We were not trying to conceal any aspect of the comparison. We were simply trying to show what you are getting with a Criterion barrel vs. a commonly found Hammer Forged barrel and highlight the differences. The differences are significant even outside of the chamber option. Reaming, honing, hand-lapping, and all of the other details set them apart both in fit and finish as well as raw performance. Regardless, thank you again for the feedback, I will take it into account in the future.
I don’t think you’re giving a true comparison because the cold hammer forged barrel you’re using is a crappy one. Cold forged hammer barrels are way smoother and definitely not usually as pitted and ugly as the cold hammer forged barrel you chowed because I have 3 cold hammer forged barrels and there incredibly smooth barrels and my other 3 button cut rifle barrels are definitely not as smooth. I think you have a evident bias. Theres no way a button cut criterion barrel is on average as smooth as a cold hammer forged barrel. And you know this. But good try making criterion button cut rifle barrels look as good as cold hammer forged barrel
Big Dick Cheney, I would encourage you to do some research on the manufacturing processes before throwing out your baseless emotion-laden opinions. Hammer forging is a means to form the rifling in the bore of a barrel... it is also vastly less refined than our production methods. If you have doubts, feel free to look at national record winning barrels and find a cold hammer forged barrel that was used to win a match... our barrels currently hold numerous national and internal match titles. Cold hammer forged barrels are great for what they are but they do not even come close to the refinement you get from a Criterion Barrel. I am not trying to be a big dick but in this case, you simply aren't measuring up.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc your responses are hilarious. I already bought a 13.9 core last week but if I hadn't already, I absolutely would be based on your replies alone.
When a company wont tell you what make and model of "other" widget they are comparing to their own widget it means they are cowards and afraid they will be sued over what they are about to say. If what you say is true and you back it up with empirical testing and measurements and have a well designed study you have no fears. Especially if those measurements are down by an independent certified lab or like licensed professional. Instead you want to take the easy way out and show some cheap easy to see machine marks that may or may not be the reason for the outcome you indicated with an insanely small sample size. Your appeal to authority is pathetic and just comes off as cheap marketing trickery and is disgusting! Again do better you are machine shop that makes and sells a ton of rifle barrels if this is the best science and engineering you can come up with I am worried about your product quality now!
We are not the type of company to bad mouth other brands. We obsess over our own quality and let other manufacturers worry about there own issues. We aren't interested in stirring up drama or calling others out... In fact, it is counterproductive to our own business model as we sell barrels to many rifle manufacturers who oftentimes come to us to improve upon the performance they are seeing from their CHF barrel options. This is why we didn't name any names, because many of our current customers choose us because of our professionalism and our reputation. It is not that we are cowards, as you suggest (on a side note it is rather funny to be called a coward by some internet troll who hides behind a generic CZcams channel, just food for thought)...
This is hardly a scientific study buckaroo... it is simply highlighting some of the things we do differently. Yes, this is a sample size of one... again, not scientific and was never intended to be... its a simple video that was produced years and years ago. The extra steps we take in comparison to many other barrel manufacturers on the market simply make our barrels more refined and this shows in the way they perform. It is little things like honing, hand-lapping, polishing chambers, precision cut crowns, gas port testing, and all the other details that we obsess over that make for a more accurate and more durable product. We are not bad mouthing other production methods, there are many good ways to make barrels, CHF barrels included (I have used them extensively in my life in a variety of jobs). Details matter and this video highlights some of the things to look for when choosing a barrel. We have little to prove to internet mall ninjas and prefer to work with informed armed citizens, Special Forces Units, The Marine Corps Shooting Team, the Army Marksmanship Unit, SWAT teams and LE across the country, professional shooters and hunters, many of the most reputable rifle manufacturers in the world, and others who spend more time shooting and perfecting their craft than attempting to stir up drama in an old CZcams videos comment section.
Bro. Who shit in your cheerios?
It was a pretty damn decent test and I can tell you I have barrels from KAC, Centurion, Triarc, Criterion, BCM, and Geissele and my criterion is easily one of the most accurate as long as I do my part. Chill the hell out.
Even if they didn’t compare it to another rifle those groups are pretty damn impressive. You not realizing that let’s everyone know how little time you’ve actually spent behind a rifle and even less time spent learning about ballistics and manufacturing.
Machine shops are what make custom PRS rifles. I would love to see you talk shit to someone winning PRS matches with a SAC build. Grow up
I'd almost bet that if you hand lapped the other barrel that it'd compete well with the criterion barrel lol.
It would take a little more than a simple lapping job to clean that CHF barrel up. One or two steps would need to take place prior to rifling to allow for a more uniform bore diameter, as well as a change in production methods to allow for more a uniform chrome lining application. Without a more extensive material test I can't speak to the stress relieving process used post-rifling, but that definitely comes into play as well.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc I understand that you have a product to keep a reputation for, but some diamond lapping compound would clean the rifling right up. Keeping check with bore gages to make sure the dimensions weren't being screwed is a necessity. Of course making your own custom rifling lapping tool from lead would make the job easy. I did the same thing for my rock island 1911 with a chef barrel, and it cleaned up my groupings. Almost a night and day difference.
@@CriterionbarrelsInc also, a lot of chf barrel manufacturers don't take the time to lap their rifling in their barrels. I'm not saying your barrels are bad because I've never used them. However, I was getting sub moa accuracy out of 16 inch 1:8 twist Anderson manufacturing barrel with 69 grain federal ammo lol.
@@rufusleers are you a barrel maker?
@@brianb1998 fuck off!
So what you are saying is that if someone gave Criterion a rotary CHF machine they would be unable to make a match grade barrel with it? Are you saying that since you do not make CHF barrels they are all inferior to your barrels? What happens if I purchase one of your barrels and one of Kriegers barrels and a CHF barrel and the CHF comes out on top? Do I then get to bad mouth button rifled and cut rifled barrels? I would like to see 100 barrels Critrion and 100 from Named Source like TIKA, F&N, LW or the like with each OEM providing the barrels. tested on a test bed with standardized load maybe 100 rounds through each barrel then the average of all shots averaged etc.....I would want it to be 3rd party independently tested. It reeks of bias might as well be CNN! Try harder! First don't be cowards if you can not or will not state name brands and the exact specifications that you have measured with regards to their barrel as compared to yours don't bother to even open your mouth about it! We want names and specifications! You working for the CDC or WHO now? LOL Do better!
Might I weed out a simple overlooked variable here and in my opinion, willful omission?
We're talking about a military grade CHF 5.56x45mm barrel correct.
Your barrel is using .223 Wylde yes?
This is an apples to oranges comparison and seriously a joke that you tried to pull this crap on all of us. At base value a .223 Wylde barrel is already designed with more accuracy in mind than a 5.56 barrel.
Also another thing not talked about. Since we're talking about cost, a CHF barrel will last you tens of thousands of rounds down the road. What is the lifespan of these barrels? There's a shit ton of overlooked nuance here and really it seems overly intention and extremely misleading. Can't believe people haven't after a year seen this. Outta here with this poor advertising.
Considering that the Criterion barrel is chrome lined, it will most likely exceed the lifespan of the CHF barrel. With regards to the chambering; 223 Wylde barrels would allow you to shoot the 223 Remington round while providing the tolerances necessary to be able to shoot 5.56 NATO. There is a multitude of studies online (some of which can be found on youtube) showing that when firing 5.56 Nato, a 223 Wylde chambered barrel will not differ in accuracy in comparison to a CHF barrel that is also shooting 5.56 NATO. The test is very much apples to apples, hence the reason why no one has pointed out what you referred to as a "willful omission".
Daniel Kelly the point is the price point
You have no idea what you're talking about. Please educate yourself on barrels and manufacturing techniques/procedures.
Daniel Kelly There isn’t any “military grade” CHF barrel for the AR15/M16 platform, at least as far as Colt’s TDP is concerned.
Why is that?
Because it was determined that CHF is not capable of the accuracy of a button rifles barrel in military tests.
CHF is a scam.
It doesn’t last longer, it’s not more accurate, it’s just a way for companies to manufacture the most barrels for the lowest cost.
M LL If you’re using your AR-15 on the trap range, go with the FN CHF barrel.
It’ll give you a wider pattern, easier for busting clays.
Omg this is so unhelpful. Of course you’re gonna shoot your barrel better. Duh. Lol.
This is a simple comparison of things to look for and a test sample size of one... I wouldn't overthink it. I would also venture to say that this video is more helpful than your comments. That being said, our barrels are more refined than hammer forged barrels that are made in seconds and the result is that they perform better. The devil is in the details, even if this video falls short for you. Thank you for watching.