The Poet And The Pendulum - NIGHTWISH Reaction with Mike & Ginger
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- čas přidán 23. 08. 2021
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The Long awaited reaction, to Nightwish's magnum opus. This one really hit home.
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In an interview recently Tuomas Holopainen says that he has not spoken to Tarja Turunen since the band fired the singer in 2005. “We have emailed a few times. Even though the wounds are still there on both sides, things are better. - A few months ago, my father passed away and she immediately sent me an email with her condolences. I was very touched by that.”
That shows time heals wounds. Things may never get to the point is was in the early days of the band but being civil to each other and on the verge of friendship is such a human trait.
That is why in my opinion that I believe Toumas and Tarja will eventually reunite some day. It probably won't be with Nightwish but more then likely some special project together with them only playing live a few times in Finland.
@@midnight-2021 keep dreaming
@@mraijmann59 that was said about Ozzy returning to Black Sabbath because there was alot of anger with him and Iommi but they eventually returned to make one more album together in 2013.
@@mraijmann59 Don't say that. When Nightwish had Anette I was also dreaming aloud that perhaps they could get this rather unknown signer from After Forever to join the band instead of Anette
During this live song, Tuomas's microphone was muted. He was aware of losing control during the show/song hearing Floor's singing it. And still Emppu at the beginning of the song goes to Tuomas and ask Him: Are You OK with this? Then Emppu thanks the support of the crowed and said He is OK. And at the end Marko and Emppu are going to support Tuomas to hold out 'till the end of the song. These people are one-by-one unique persons with really precious souls and feeling. I just want to hug them every time I see a live show from them.
I appreciate your reaction, but Tuomas has not had a microphone in more than two decades. Maybe in 1999, when they were playing in the tiniest of venues like a supermarket in Italy.
@@franshinlopen2166 About when Marco came on board. Tuomas said he'll never sing again. He'll stick to keyboards.
What everybody seems to forget is that tarja had already made the decision to leave the band, Tuomas just preempted that. The relationship was broken long before the "letter".
Yes, and it was actually Marco who demanded that Tarja has to go immediately, because he wouldn't continue in the band anymore if Marcelo and Tarja were in. They brought just too much negativity and difficulties in their everyday life on tour. Marco said Tuomas that either Marcelo and Tarja goes right away and they find a new female front or he will leave the band. Tarja was announced already that she will make only one more Nightwish album and then a "mini tour" (only carefully selected big venues, not North America nor Australia) and then she will go solo. So, only chance was let Tarja go. There would've been much nicer way to do it, but we must remember that relantions with Marcelo and Tarja were really bad at times. They were very toxic already from the year 2004 - almost whole two years till that last gig in October 30th 2005.
Correct. She had been threatening to go solo for probably the last year. The band all finally got tired of the threats.
For me, the album Once first suggested that communication in the band was totally broken. On Planet Hell, the first female lyric is "A dead world...". Tarja sings it as "A deed world..." which makes no sense at all. It's not even English. And fifteen years later in 2019 she was still doing it at Masters of Rock. Tarja speaks good but pretty accented English, but she absolutely knows how to sing "dead". For some reason, she didn't do it here.
So what is going on?
1 Tuomas (who speaks and writes excellent English) tells her she is doing it wrong, but she doesn't listen.
2 Nobody wants to tell her she's doing it wrong.
Total breakdown either way.
@@raunoriipaiseva7691 Jukka and Emppu also said "she goes or we go".
@@raunoriipaiseva7691 And hey ho he left the band anyway, 16 years later. There seem to be a lot of 'facts' here about threats made by Tarja Turunen and band members threatening "its her or us". Where has this surfaced from? Where is the evidence?
Excellent. Brilliant. Your interpretations about this song were a surprise for me. When I heard this song for the first time in 2007, it was with Anette. I knew the story and I was heartbroken when it happened, because this band always was really dear to me. The wounds were still fresh and the song hit me like a brick... for me it tells the chronological story of what happened. For me, it was like this:
Part I - The introduction, where the music tells us what is it all about, like "this is what happens in short. Now let me tell you how it happened..."
Part II - Seems to me like the part immediately after the break-up, where he has to keep going with the band, with the songs, working, while inside he was in turmoil. "Take me home" seems to me to be a plead for help.
Part III - When he sees himself strapped in an altar with a cutting pendulum going down on him, like in "The Pit And The Pendulum" from Edgar Allan Poe. Only that the scenery is at the ocean shore, a recurring theme in NW's songs. Floor's operatic sound just gave me chills there... it flows acceptance for his destiny and seems like relief for finally being able to be released from his agony. The best part for me, by far. The three minutes part is so well thought it gave me chills the first time I noticed.
Part IV - The execution. Marko as the executioner is SO GOOD. The feeling of treason from friends, the feeling of being ashamed, the feeling of being exposed is raw there for me. It makes me cringe sometimes, and I think we all can relate when we get shamed by one mistake, when we get roasted for a bad decision... The narration is perfect and clear, being "1000 pages of erased text" being his past being erased by one mistake, he being judged by that moment only, forgetting about all his history... really resonates with me.
Part V - His parents and the love emanating from them. This part ALWAYS gets me, especially "... in the end I will always love you". During all the events, Tuomas always said his parents were there for him and they were his foundation of strength. The easiness with how the emotion flows in this part is amazing. It's a genius' masterpiece result in my opinion.
And, if you notice, the first line in the song is "The End", and the song, ever so lightly, ends with "The Beginning" which, for me, means that the end of an era ended (no pun intended) and another one began. And, for them, so it was.
Well, just some thoughts both of you inspired me to write. :) Sorry for the long comment and thank you for the excellent reaction. Your interpretation showed me other ways to see the song and made it so fresh to me again.... I can only thank you for sharing.
I appreciate you sharing your perspective. We have the benefit of time lapsed. Our impressions would likely have been different, had we “experienced” the break in real time. - G
@@MikeandGinger in an interview Tuomas said that Floor was what had been always missing" & that she is the final vocalist.Floor refers to the other band members as her brothers.I have seen & listened to this band for 20yrs I had never seen them so happy,content and prosperous until Floor came on board. btw since her the fan base has more than tripled :)
@@nicod1361 Tuomas said that before they hired Anette, they looked at Floor and really wanted her. However, After Forever was really starting to get hot right then so didn't think he could lure Floor away from them.
@@jamesanderson5268 The real ground was, that Floor has at this Time a burnout.
@@fraukehammer4624 No she didn't. When they fired Tarja it was back in 2005. Floor had her burnout when After Forever ended in 2011-2012, right before she joined Nightwish. They didn't go for Floor after Tarja but picked Anette instead and she was with the band until Floor joined.
This, to me, is Tuomas's greatest work - a piece of his soul, on display for all. A few things :
- watch Marco's hands when he's singing during "Dark Passion Play" - so complicated, while singing. I'm very impressed.
- before the split, Tarja had already declared she would stick around for one more album, but then she was out. Something the fans maybe weren't aware of when they gave him such a bad time. Plus, the whole band agreed - he just took all of the heat.
- nothing against Annette, but seriously, could anyone ever have sung thus better than Floor?
- there's a story that Tuomas has the vocals off in his ears, for this one
- "three minutes and counting" means just that, check it out. Tuomas is a genius.
Great job, guys! 🤘
Tuomas’ greatest work, and one of the greatest songs of all time!
I agree that Floor's abilities are perfect for this masterpiece. Of course, that could be said of just about any song she sings. Her range is incredible, and she has that gift of perfect pitch. Never a sour note, ever. And I've read that account of Tuomas asking the sound engineer to switch off Floor's vocals in his earpiece for this song several times.
@@danharris5999 And the emotions she imparts to the song…..
Marko sang the entire demo - darker, angrier, more crude imagery and 4 letter words. If Anette had not sung it on the album, Floor would never have sung it.
@Scott Field Here: czcams.com/video/v65-ErfUyVM/video.html
Watched it a thousand times. And still my eyes getting wet like I´ve chopped a busload of onions... Just incredible.
Same..
Most of the performances by NW cause tears.
Tears of shared pain. Tears of shared sadness.
Tears of pure joy and wonder.
I never felt that with Tarja or Annette.
Floor does something that no other ARTIST has ever done for me... literally unlocked my 60 years of suppressed emotions.
Sometimes, she brings out accompanying, physical reactions. 60 years is a long time to bottle that $hit up....I consider Floor therapy.
The backlash of firing Tarja was so enormous, that even the prime minister of Finland had a say about it. Oh and that Mother and Father part contains actual words from Tuomas' parents
I'm Finnish but don't have a clue. What is this about?
@@sisuboy Sillonen pääministeri otti kantaa uutisissa, jos sitä tarkotit.
Because the prime minister of Finland is part of a underground Folk Metal band and his opinion matters
First time I heard about the politician commenting on the band, I was quite surprised. Then again, I don't live in Finland so it's hard to imagine how invested the society was/is in that incident. I'm a fan, but most people around me never heard of Nightwish and if they did, they know only Amaranth, Nemo or WIHAA from the radio and don't care about the rest.
@@juliannewarren5466 Nightwish are also financially one of Finland's biggest exports.
We will probably never see this live again, but may this be the most memorable performance of this song. This is a song that comes out of emotions, feelings, sorrow, when you actually see no return of anything. Thanks for a very nice reaction to this.
That last bit was almost word for word what his parents said to him when he went home .... so it was his r eal mother
In the past I was just enjoying the music of Nightwish and wasn´t really informed about what´s going on around the band, so this song was just for me an absolute epic masterpiece, but only many years later, actually with all the reactors emerging, I finally realized the full gravity of the topic, and it became much deeper for me. And to be honest, I can´t watch this video without wet eyes, no matter how many times I see it.
I totally agree with Ginger. When you close a singer like Floor in your heart…its a mission impossible to replace a living legend like her. She is a once in a lifetime artist who simply cant be replaced.
its Floor , the most perfect vocalist the world has ever seen
Tears in my eyes for the 1000th time. Still such an emotional song. What a writer Toumas is. Nice response. Thank you.
I'm sure that this has already been mentioned, I came in late, but the part about his Mother was really in a letter from his Mom. That's why "the boyz" were up checking on Tuomas because this obviously was very heart felt. Thank you for reacting to this, it brings tears to my eyes no matter how many times I've heard it.
I'm good until the Mom and Dad part starts. But then my eyeballs start to sweat. lol
That last section always gets me. Floor's singing is so emotional.
Every time tearing up at the end, doesn’t matter how many times I already heard it.
The he brilliance, nuance and mastery of Tuomas’ songwriting lyrics and composition never ceases to amaze me. 3 minutes exactly from where he says “I have 3 minutes and counting “ is when he simulates with his hand the pendulum cutting his throat.This is just an amazing piece of music art!🤘🤘
Hello Mike and Ginger.
The song "The Poet and the Pendulum" is a 13 Minute journey through the mind and turmoil of Tuomas Holopainen after the year 2005. It was in that year the band parted with their long-time singer Tarja Turunen and had a personal falling out with her. The pain of the separation was big on both sides, and shown in this song. There is guilt for what happened, there is the responsibility that the band and Holopainen had to show towards the fans,. It was the End of an Era for them, and reason for Holopainen being lost as described in these lyrics. We can only of course to a certain degree suppose how much of these are truly Holopainen's feelings, wishes and pains - but we do know that the lyrics of Nightwish have been up to then very personal. Other songs on the album also digest this separation and falling out of the members with Turunen.
However personal and "real" these thoughts are, I feel like this song definitely takes us not only on a journey with Holopainen but also into ourselves. The music underlines the emotional gravity of the song extremely well. And I believe a lot of people can actually relate to a sense of guilt and being overwhelmed that all they desired for is the safety of home and innocence. While being personal, the song can still ring true to it's listener. That's a quality Nighwish possesses in many, many more songs. The emotional journey is one we can all share and very few bands know how to put that journey into song and especially into sound as well as Nightwish does.
The band remains through all it's shores and Oceans, one of my main favourites and I hold special place for the band in my musical heart. I hope you have enjoyed reading my analysis and share some of my thoughts. If you do have any comments, please feel free to let me know. And remember the beauty of interpretation is that it is subjective; we can see all and feel different things in the same song and continue to love it endlessly.
Lyric analysis by Annika Hausen
Greetings from the Netherlands
Tuomas' journey through depression and suicidal ideation is perfectly orchestrated.
And the title tribute to Poe kind of a nod to the dark side we all have.
The trauma is palpable in the song... it's raw in places and Marko illustrates it impeccably.
Then Mother and Father soothe the feverish mind... Floor's performance cannot be overstated.
Her emotional connection is unearthly, supernatural!
If you don't go through the stages of grief on this journey, you're missing a soul.
Watching Ginger struggle with her emotions demonstrate you're not missing a soul.
Wishing you healing. Your own pain is also palpable.
"I will always love you" just rips my soul loose.
This will be epic in so many ways.
The threat and the sword relates to The Pit and the Pendulum by Poe and the fate of the poet (as Tuomas usually refers to himself).
I always love the way the song starts with “the end” and finishes with “the beginning” and comes full circle. Just like “The Wall” album by Pink Floyd.
Great reaction my friends.
Thank you!
@@MikeandGinger Tuomas also uses the pseudonyms dreamer, writer/song writer and boy especially.
The song immediately before this in the Wembley set, 'Alpenglow' which you'll get to, Floor sings the chorus line "conquering the darkest places" directly to Tuomas on his podium, she knew what was coming next.
Thanx for a great reaction/conversation about this masterpiece. Again you were a treat to listen too.
The part "Mother and father" strictly refers to Tuomas' parents. It's the exact words his mother told him when he was so depressed at that time.
your reaction at the beginning of "The Pacific" (18:40) is the same I get every time I hear that song, and I have heard it more times than I can remember. The same goes for when I hear her sing "Mother and Father"
Nightwish💥🔥🤘 makes beautiful instrumental and vocal music.
The lyrics that touch😢 you. The melody sounds so good, nice to listen to.
In the end...MARKO and EMPPU support their Brother
TUOMAS 💙💙💙
Thank you ❤
Tuomas has definitely crafted a masterpiece here . A story of life, love and lose. Your reaction was a good analysis with your own interpretation !
I've read that this song is reversed, time wise, back to front. It starts out in the end of the drama, where Tuomas has found his way to the "White lands of Empathica" after his journey. At the end of the song, when Floor has made her way to the front from sitting down, when the camera shot falls on Tuomas at the keyboard, you can hear that child voice say "The beginning."
I found out about this about 1 month into my NW journey, my take is that while each side was justified it matters not in the here and now. What is done is done. Enjoy the music and people who are left for the time of our lives are finite and too short to hold a grudge that wasn't ours to hold in the 1st place. Glad you did the reaction.
I'm equally eager for each of your reactions to this extremely emotional piece of music . I hope you both are somewhat familiar with the epic nature this composition represents pertaining to Tuomas, Tarja, the band and the fans as well.
While this is part of the Holy Trinity of Nightwish (TPATP, Ghost Love Score, The Greatest Show on Earth), this piece is also part of what could be called the Break Up Trilogy, as on the album this was on, Dark Passion Play, there were 3 songs that dealt with Tarja's departure from the band: Bye Bye, Beautiful (which was Tuomas' goodbye letter to Tarja), and Master Passion Greed (their song directed at Tarja's husband, Marcelo, whom the band effectively blamed for the change in Tarja).
Not only will they never play Bye Bye, Beautiful live (Floor stated herself that she refuses to sing that song; her and Tarja are friends), and the band stated that Master Passion Greed will never be played live, everyone is basically over the events that happened. Floor and Tarja are friends. Marco and Tarja are friends again. As stated earlier, Tuomas and Tarja have emailed back and forth, cordially, apparently for business reasons (they would obviously have to get Tarja's buy-in for the remaster of Once, which was Tarja's last album with Nightwish), so they are, to one degree or another, at least on speaking terms. The only ones to not really be over it still, are the fans.
The one sad thing about music is that the composer's work will outlive the composer. So even when they make up and are friends again, and even after both Tuomas and Tarja are gone, this will survive, so it will be there, immortalized.
The song structure actually goes through all parts of depression if you listen to ir again :) first you feel you're dead, then you have chaos in your head being at home dealing with your own mind, then you feel regret for doing things and nostalgic of how things were "On the shore we sat and hoped" then you feel anger of people and feel noone understands you and nobody cares and how everyone will be happy if you're gone. And then you're either gone or you have a new begining ⭐✅💯 at least that's how i got it from the lyrics :) the Man put his heart and soul on the paper and wrote everything he felt at the very moment, and we normal mortals enjoy a Composition of Composers roughest time in his life perhaps 💯💯
Thank you for such a thoughtful reaceion. There's so much in this song, and Tuomas likes to reference to his other works. For one it is possible that the phrase "bleed no more" is a reference to GLS line "If you be the one to cut me I will bleed forever"
That ending always guts me. First, seeing Tuomas singing along. Knowing what personal hell he went through. Second, ever parent knows that inconsolable cry/scream of a child at the end.😢 There's nothing you can do to help fix it.
Great reaction👍👍👍
One great ingenuity of Tuomas as songwriter is for me the announcement of his "death" three minutes (three minutes and counting). Also the fading heartbeats afterwards gives me goosebumps every of the hundred times I have watched this song.
Beside that, the song starts with 2The End" end ends with "The Beginning" .
One of Floors strengths can "shine" here with full power: Her ability to tell a story with her voice, posing and face. There not many singer in the world, who can transport emotions so well like Floor.
A great reaction by both of you. Thanx for sharing your thoughts and emotions with us.
I really enjoyed, and was moved by, watching the two of you experience this work of art. Thank you. This piece always gets me. Heard it so many times and still tears come.
This song is partly inspirated by the short novel of Edgar Allan Poe called "The Pit and the Pendulum"
Great reaction…interesting and thoughtful analysis from both of you. In an interview, Tuomas said this was his suicide in a song, so he wouldn’t have to do it in real life. At the time the band decided to release Tarja, Tuomas had no doubt the band would continue, as he had the support of the other members…it was the backlash from the fans that added to the pain he already felt at having to sever that relationship with his old friend. Interestingly, in a very recent interview (Metal Hammer magazine, Summer 2021 edition), he said that he only feared the band would break up twice…when the original bass player left, and when Marko left. Reminded that, in 2019, he said that if another band member were to quit that would be the end of the band, he said, “ that’s how I felt back in 2019, and that’s also how I felt when Marko left. I take my words back when it comes to that. But if it would be Floor leaving, that’s it, it’s the end of Nightwish. Absolutely, 100%.”
Well, let’s hope it never comes to that! - G
Hard stuff today. Absolut masterpiece
Nice words from you and very well done in respecting this song in a very honorable way, Thank you!
... and nice to se you back with Nightwish :) take care and see you.
Have been waiting for this one from you two. Finally.
Wonderfull reaction to this Masterpiece. Thank you.😊
When it comes to trying to figure out what is going on it helps if you are familiar with Edgar Allen Poe's story, "The Pit and the Pendulum". It's the story of someone trapped in torment and constant threat who is ultimately strapped onto a platform as a swinging blade slowly lowers bit by bit towards them as they try to find a means of escape.
Probably their best song so far and so deep and emotional.
Remember the lyric ‘three minutes and counting’. Look what happens after exactly three,minutes.
This is a masterpiece. Another great musician, Toumas, that came from the 1990s. Can't say enough about how special and unique the 1990s was with the alternative side of metal music. These musicians carried it well past the 1990s as well.
Hearing this song always takes me back to that terrible time from when the split happened to when Anette first joined the band. It wasn't terrible because of Anette - I have great affection and respect for her, and I'm glad I saw Nightwish with her at the helm - but it was because of the "fans." So many people were viciously arguing with each other, everyone wanting to be correct, and so very few people were willing to say, "I don't know." I would listen to "Amaranth" and "Bye, Bye Beautiful" on CZcams and never look at the comments because I knew it was a radioactive sewer. To this day the term "Nightwish Army" sounds ironic to me because I remember how divided everyone was. I adopted the approach of, "I wasn't there, and I don't know these people," like I do whenever a member of a group leaves (like now with LOVEBITES), but on the rare occasion I tried to preach that point of view, my sermon fell on deaf fingers.
Thanks for diving so deeply into the lyrics, for taken seriously what is an important work to a lot of people, and for being one of the best reaction channels out there. You two take the subject matter seriously, but it's always fun because I feel like you're just as enthusiastic and interested as I am.
#VoteForGinger
Great reaction guys , very Human - needed to hear this sort of thing as most of us go through this drama & not all of us pull through to the other side - 👍 , Again thank you , Love your reactions.
wise people always see the whole picture and mike and ginger you are wise :) i dont really like fanatic people who only shout one truth in life. thanx to great reaction and have awesome day there. love tarja and everybody in nightwish ever been and now on. fun fact nightwish second singer was almost singer from canada, they choose sweden anette or canada singer in last. i dont know canada singer name.
The last movement of this song makes me breakdown every time. I would've given anything for my parents to talk to me like that.
To me, the smile and 1,000 pages of erased text was Tuomas's way of taking revenge for the hate he was receiving. He had many masterpieces to share with the world, but since the world hated him, he wouldn't give them the satisfaction of discovering his work after his death.
In this live performance Floor deserves just as much praise as Tuomas. Tuomas is the genius composer who wrote this song but even he needs a female singer who can perform the emotion of what he writes both on a technical level and as an emphatic person of her own. Like so many classical composers did and do!!! They need the right people to perform their compositions. And sometimes that means a one in a million kind of singer. Even Mozart had to be interpreted and performed by singers and musicians throughout the centuries. And some of them are so much more heartfelt and sublime than most others. And when you compare the version of this song sung by Anette with how Floor shapes this song through her vocals it's like two different songs. Especially live!!! In Floor Tuomas has the perfect singer who by her pure 'one in a million' talent elevates this song to a level perhaps even Tuomas himself never dreamed possible. Floor added so much of her own interpretation and beauty to the end result that it became a part of her as well. Tuomas wrote this song but Floor makes you feel it.
I love you guys you're two outstanding people with infanite hearts and mongo integrity an apart of my family. Peace, cheers, and love from Chicago. Please keep doing what you're doing. Take care you two, and hopefully there's no stress now and always.
19:28 Tuomas 💜
32:42 Tuomas - Marco & Emppu💜
And Floor’s beautiful empathic talents - (you both reacted at the exact same note). Those last notes sound to me like a mother’s wailing. 😿
You need to follow up this song by watching both songs:
Bye Bye Beautiful (written by Tuomas to Tarja) and
Master Passion Greed (written by Tuomas to Marcello - Tarja’s husband & manager).
The same feelings were shared by the band but I think there was a lot of love & longing by Tuomas for Tarja.
This song is a moment in time, treasure it, it will never happen again.
Tuomas is thankfully not in the same place as back then. He's been married to Johanna since 2015, and he seems much happier now. FYI, Auri released a new single recently, called The Valley. It's gorgeous.
I'm happy that you waited until your own situation cleared up.
Gives you a lot better chanse to see the picture he is painting.
Thanks for a great reaction!
Much Love 💙💛💙
Think about the situation... Tuomas was still a young man at 29. His life's work was in shambles. Nightwish is his child in many ways. Tarja had already told them she would be leaving, so he already was in pain before they decided to let her go. Then his whole world started crashing down on him when they announced it publicly. This song captured the destruction of his youthful outlook on the world (The End) and brings him to "The Beginning" of the new world he will have to live in.
The Pendulum, as others have mentioned, is a reference to Edgar Allen Poe's terrifying story, The Pit and the Pendulum.
I'm thrilled looking forward to your comments regarding this masterpiece.
Thanks for your comments. As reaction, Nightwish and Tarja with her magical classical soprano voice was always equal to 1 + 1 = 3 for me from 1996 to 2005. Unfortunately the tension between the band members ended with a sad letter to Tarja that it was over for her. This masterpiece is an emotional song with a lot of bitterness referring to that period written by Tuomas the NW genius master composer. Only to say his perspective to that situation. From 2007 till 2012 Anette did a great job as second female singer, especially her calmness and smooth voice made some of the Nightwish songs very special. She is a little bit underrated to me, her live performances on stage were not always great I have to admit. Also her NW appearance ended not good. In Oct. 2012 in the USA (Seattle, Salt Lake City, LA) during the Imaginearium Tour two Kamelot female singers rescued Nightwish for a stage disaster. Then directly Floor came, shortly after her sisters wedding, by airplane to the States. In 48 hours she had to learn the complete repertoire. Since then she is the revelation of Nightwish with her versatile vocal qualities, her enthousiasm on stage, and her connection with the audience, as Dutch Windmill the 6ft Valkyrie Goddess of Metal. And you can feel that from her in this performance of The Poet and the Pendulum.
Last note, to you Ginger, fingers crossed, a lot of succes in the current female competition and the foundation fighting against breast cancer.
Enjoyed your reaction and insight. It wasn’t long ago I learned the story of this song, and honestly it’s heartbreaking to think Tomas was at the point of having to deal with these feelings. It’s cathartic, and sad - but a beautiful song!
Ooh didn't know you had not seen this one yet. This is a big one. And not just in length. The story is heavy and emotional. I can understand prolonging this when you're in the middle of painful times. But I'm glad to see it's time!
Best react of the song.....
Sweet kisses from France
Stay safe
❤️
Tarja, Tuomas, Jukka, and Emppu are all from Kitee a small town with a population of 9,000 people. Safe to say everybody knows everybody there and when this was in the news country wide and the prime minister commented about it, you know that absolutely everybody knew about it and there were two opposite camps.
Thanks a lot for the respect you have shown for this work of art. Your insights, feelings and encouragement. Lots of love from the Netherlands.
The "Blade" was all the "Fans" that turned off from Nightwish that he got a backlash from because as the head of Nightwish he took all the responsibility of firing Tarja, even thought it was all member decision 💯
I was super excited today………!!
🤣
Dont apologize for talking!:) thats why we are here :) awesome reaction
It's great that you can talk about the song in terms of your own experiences and I think that is part of the beauty of this song is that whilst it is a very personal subject to Tuomas and the band the song itself is so relatable to the listener for numerous different reasons. I tend to look on the song and it's parts loosely as the stages of grieving:
Shock and denial. This is a state of disbelief and numbed feelings.
Pain and guilt. ...
Anger and bargaining. ...
Depression. ...
The upward turn. ...
Reconstruction and working through. ...
Acceptance and hope.
and the last section Mother and Father is actually based on words from his parents that helped with that acceptance and hope.
Great one guys. Loved it 👍🏻
Vote Out, and nice reaction! Im a NW FAn since 96, but also i must say Floor has somethimg special to me, i often get so emotinal when she sings.
I did like your reaction, but being a fan since 1996? The band formed in 1996, but their first album was released on November 1, 1997 and I am pretty sure that was only released in Finland initially. See Wikipedia about Angels Fall First. I became an instant fan in late spring of 1999 when I bought Oceanborn on the basis of the review by somebody I trusted.
Great reaction, you did justice to this masterpiece 🤘
I got late in Nightwish, My first video was Storytime in Wacken 2103.
I'm reading anything related to the Band, including the famous open letter that fired Tarja.
This is what I see about it:
They fired Tarja for a number of reasons.
1) Not present in rehearsals, as far I know, this is sacred for any band.
2) She was a total Diva Complex, as she believed that the band would dismiss without her singing.
3) Her greedy husband was demanding bigger payments.
4) She already was signaling that she would pursue her solo career next year. The band just speeded the process.
5) That was a band decision, but all the weight was on Tuomas shoulders only.
For those reasons, I tend to side with Tuomas, I agree that he had all the reasons to fire here.
Excellent job .
As far as chronologically, the very first words sung by the boy at the very start of the song is "The End" and the very last words from that very same boy right before Floor's wordless singing at the end is "The Beginning". Some take this to mean the End of an Era (with Tarja) and the beginning (of something new, for the band and Tuomas).
Some have also looked at the various structures of the song as the stages of grief but however you interpret this song it is definitely a masterpiece.
In my opinion, you are absolutly right, i think also.
i dont know if you have done her yet but i HIGHLY recommend
Loreena McKennitt
Amazing singer/songwriter
awesome reaction. This piece has a very special place in my life. I know the back story but this piece is also an anthem for those people with mental health issues such as depression with suicidal thoughts, Yep I am one of those! Also in the Pit and the Pendulum Poe talks about the point at which you both give up hope and accept the end, which you really get the sense of in this.
If I may I would like to give you my interpretation of the lyrics and what they mean to me.
The first part, which you note starts with the words the end!! Is taken from Stephen Kings Tower series, the white lands were the home of a type of vampire that fed on emotions, (empathy), so a person left feeling nothing, empty and without emotion.
In the second part, those lines expressing a feeling of futility, all same old same old yet, hating how you feel, then the verse seems to express the effort of trying to pretend to be ok, hence those two faces, one for everyone else and the real one that is private, no one to turn to for help as the people around you seem as upset as you so no shoulder to cry on so you just carry on pretending becoming that whore for the cold world. Then there is the remembering back to when all was good, yet you cannot get there despite everyone telling you “you are ok, it will be fine” till those words just sink you even further into the mess.
Then we have the Pacific, oh wow, the wishing and planning stage, the beautiful sea, just wishing it was over, that you could be under the waves, beneath the pain tucked into that beauty., last goodnight kiss and a valentine that ends everything.
Then that part that starts with being afraid, being raped, not in the traditional sense but feeling violated, alone and bloody scared, For Tuomas, feeling that those who he felt should have been there for him somehow betrayed him, a not uncommon feeling with severe depression, feeling that even life betrayed you, also again the mention of the tide and drowning, many see it as the perfect death!
On a side note here, three minutes and counting, yep exactly three minutes to the point that Tuomas simulates the blade.
Here also note how the music becomes chaotic, mirroring the thought process of someone planning their own death, no logic, well there is but only to the individual. Yet also a sense of excitement and of a journey, proceeding the calm.
Then the passion play, traditionally passion plays were performed at Easter and were about the death of Christ, and Tuomas plays with us a little here, “second robber to the right of Christ! Well at the crucifixion there was only one robber either side of Christ but in the painting The Last Supper the person second to the right of Christ is Judas!!!!!
Then of course the symbolic death and the slowing faltering heartbeat.
The beginning or last part of the piece are the words that brought Tuomas back from the edge. In his case words from his parents but many of us will have people who were there at just the right time and who cared enough to be the rock and love us enough to hold on.
If there is a message in this work surely it is to be kind, to look out for each other and if you can be there, you never know you may just save a person’s life. As someone did mine.
❤️ - G
The Pacific is Tuomas describing drowning himself which leads into Dark Passion play when the realization that you about to die kicks in. “You have 3 minutes to live and counting” - the average human can hold their breath for 3 minutes. 3 minutes exactly after that line Tuomas actions the head chop. Genius…….
If you you want to know how angry the band was with Tarjas' husband, who they mainly blamed for the break up because of his greed, can I strongly suggest you react to Master Passion Greed. There is no live performance of it, only a lyrical video. Nightwish said they would never perform this song in public and to my knowledge they never have.
The Poet and the Pendulum was written after firing Tarja the original singer. She was the face of Nightwish at the time, and dear in all their hearts, especially Tuomas who considered her a muse to many of the songs he had written at that point, they had also grown up in the same city and knew each other since early childhood. All the band members decided together to fire her for acting too much of a diva. According to all the band members, Tarja was missing lots of rehearals and would not even travel with the band anymore. Tuomas was painted as the devil by many fans, and went through a deep dark depression. He even considered ending the band and committing suicide. He wrote The Poet and the Pendulum at that time, and actually kills himself in the song. He said he killed himself in the song, as to not do it in real life. To this day every time he plays it, it takes him back to those feelings, and shows on his face. In the last part, Mother and Father, words are sung to him that his real mother said to him at the time of this darkness in him. One part that touches me at the end when the guitarist Emppu and bassist Marko, the only other two involved with firing Tarja (that were still active with the band)were standing with Tuomas at the end in solidarity and love. Nice reaction.
Your most intensive reaction ever for nightwish songs--
Did you catch the fact that when she says "3 minutes and counting" that exactly after 3 mins........... the blade swings!!! Genius!!!!
No! I totally missed it 🤦♀️ - G
Time for a couple of epic Nightwish songs from the Buenos Aires '18 concert? Devil And The Deep Dark Ocean and Slayin The Dreamer please!
Thanks from Colombia
I have theory about Nightwish fans and their allegiances:
Tarja: this is the original sound and concept of Nightwish. They are fully invested in this version of the band, and there is no room for compromise. They loved Tarja’s operatic sound and do not care to hear any variance from it.
Annette: this another group of music fans altogether, they would never have been fans of the band with Tarja - not their thing. But Tuomas adjusted his writing to Annette, went more mainstream, and found mainstream, poppy, but not metal, fans. They also do not care for, quite frankly, how songs written specifically for Annette have been raised to a new level by Floor. They resent Floor for this.
Floor: this fan base has, I believe, two main groups. New fans who have never heard of Nightwish but came across the band with Floor as singer and fell in love. Then learned about the history, Tarja, Annette, but still preferred Floor. The second group, of which I am one, crossed paths with Nightwish, over time. Heard them with Tarja, thought it was innovative and cool, but also very mono-tonal with the singular operatic Focus - a one trick pony. Heard them with Annette and, frankly, was just not impressed. Many years later, came back across them, probably stumbled onto Ghost Love Score at Wacken and just got absolutely stunned by the Valkyrie goddess, and the absolutely phenomenal concept that is Nightwish with Floor as it’s voice! While we recognize that Tarja and Annette helped make the group what it became, Floor was the final piece that the group had always been striving for, to be what it had always aspired to be, and finally achieved.
In broad strokes, I think you've described some of the general lines in the fan base. And over time the commercial success largely tracks the personnel chages. I'll simply point out I think there are many, more nuanced, definitions of fairly significant portions of NW fandom...which I find to be awesome and reassuring and often surprising!
My personal experience goes back a ways, and has been pretty consistent over all that time. I've seen every lineup live except the current, and have all disc's, dvds, etc. When we arranged our '13 WOA trip we were very excited to see Anette. As it turned out, we were Floored instead (couldn't resist ;) And now we'll see the new Jukka in person at the NYC show next spring if it doesn't get rescheduled again.
Most important, I think, is just the fact that we all listen and watch and attend and discuss and share. I've found precious few things in the world that inspire and reach so many, to such a degree and in such a fashion as Nighwish do. And have done for 25 years! Truly admirable that, no?
@@roblaw4554 Such a cool comment. I was watching GLS, WOA, for the 10,000th time last night, thinking “how did this go with people who thought they were going to see Annette, and then had to adjust their expectations”. And then you say, you were that person! Thanks for that!!
@@northof4912 The short answer is that we were there to see Nighwish - not a specific member, but the whole!
We knew of the change before we traveled to Germany. I'd heard AF more than a bit and had actually caught one of their shows several years prior, so I wasn't really bothered at all. But as an active music and performance fan I'm always curious...
I originally fell in love with the band when the composition was built around the Tarja voice and presence, and first saw them live in Canada when they toured Wishmaster before Marko joined. The following albums and shows were great, and while a bit surprised I also enjoyed the Anette period a lot. The rest is history.
As for that Wacken show? You see and hear us, starting from the Intro before anyone is even on stage...do you observe any anxiety or doubts? You have your answer my friend! I think, the only one that is meaningful.
Cheers
rl
🤘👹🤘
@@roblaw4554 That is the beauty of this band - they are the sum of the parts, not a bunch of individuals.
@@northof4912 Indeed. The shouts/chants are nearly always "Nighwish". With the usual, and so well deserved, screams of "TROOOYYY!!!".
🤘
Good reactions from both of you guys ... Seeing Floor sitting there in front and between some of her "brothers" ... Wonderfull ...
1,000 pages of erased text .. he may have wrote with Tarja in mind ... 'you live long enough to see your friends betray you' .. he wanted to burn his music .. he thought he had something with Tarja . .that maybe wasn't there at all .. anyway .. thank you for this Mike and Ginger . .this made my day ... your reaction to this .. .was really good ..
Can't wait for your reactions
Cant wait
Great reaction. Thank you.
The fans didn't even argue about whether Tuomas or Tarja was right. But they were angry with Tuomas because of the way he fired Tarja. That they didn't tell her, they planned her firing behind her back for months and finally did it after their best concert in Helsinki through an childish open letter where they publicly humiliated her, instead of working it out in private. They could ruin her reputation, without being able to defend herself. It was also a big trauma for her at the time.
It can be seen from the interviews that the wounds on both sides are still not healed. And both Tarja and Tuomas wrote several songs about it. For example, Tarja wrote Enough in response to Poet and The Pendulum and the songs Diva and Until her least breath. Tuomas in turn wrote Cadence of her last breath, Master Passion Greed, Bye Bye Beautiful.
NW terribly disappointed me with their behavior back then, and I could never perceive them the way I used to.
But separation was inevitable. Tarja agreed with them that she would leave after the next album so that they could find a new singer. It was a huge drama back then. And the masses of fans were heartbroken by Tarja's departure. Many of them have not come to terms with it yet. I'm glad for that now. I prefer Tarja as a solo artist. She is much happier and her own master. But the first era of NW is still my favorite. And I love their first five albums, especially Century child.
"When you have such oceans within, search for beauty and find your shore"
Great review and reaction
Good that you did research for this song cause one can not understand it properly and even close to fully without. Yes .... NW is a kind of a family and when things go not well...it hurts. They were childhood friends and since then done NW possible. By the way I read that Tarja contacted Tuomas via e-mail just a while ago because his father died. Tuomas was very moved and touched ... she knew his father well. Check the timing since it is said "three minutes and counting". I think it was really his mother and father who encouraged him to continue with NW cause he felt that it is the end of it.
Hey guys, you did well. I see all the background info about the 3 minutes, why Emppu and later together with Marko they go check on Tuomas, the mother's words, the shoulder to cry on, etc.
also worth to say that Tuomas has said he is an empath so all of the emotions others may feel were felt as though they were his own
Floor is a highly sensitive person and she was feeling everything and avoids eye contact with Tuomas A highly sensitive person (HSP) is someone who is thought to have an increased or deeper central nervous system sensitivity to physical, emotional, or social stimuli. i think she has also stated she is an empath as well makes this and every song that much more touching
I voted!👍. The song is presented in reverse order. It begins at the end.
Thank you - G
I already gave up the hope that we will ever see this reaction. But here it is. 😂
NIghtwish - Fantasmic !!!!
I truly hope the two of you find your peace. I know the drama of divorce, family and friends taking "sides". We ALL deserve to be happy and at peace in our lives, even when it means an exit is necessary. Bless you and warm wishes and good vibes from one who get's it.
Thank you ❤️
Finally the day came!
Loved your interpretation and analysis of the meaning of the song, in the end I think it's not about picking sides but to understand the situation Tuomas was in for him to feel that way.
As for Tarja, as you probably know from the letter, she married a guy from my country, Argentina, who became her manager and very influential on the band business, which in the end was the main point of conflict. But she is a lovely person and I think it was for good that she left to be a solo artist. She was going to do it anyway after the next album.
The way to fire her wasn't the best for me but I don't judge anyone.
Anyway, hoping for more reactions to these incredible symphonic bands, maybe Epica next?
PD: Placed my vote for Ginger already :-)
Thank you Damian! - G
After much internal debate, I think this is my favorite composition from Tuomas. It's a masterpiece.
And if interested in his anger stage during all of this, check out Master Passion Greed. (their heaviest song IMO)
Thank you guys for this reaction! I don´t want to mix in with this cause it is ancient history. You just need that Sisu of ours to go through tough times. But fact is that Tuomas is NW, there would not be NW without him. (Need to remember that I saw them live first time in 1996!) So now again they had to react to Marko`s situation which have nothing to do with the band it self. All the best for him!! But they are moving on. And we all hope Marko is coming back when ever he is ready to do what ever he wants. If you need your dose of Marko listen "All Hietala Power Trio" with Marko, his son and brother.
I like when Floor looks at Thomas in the mother father part. Marco and Emppu are checking in on Thomas . The three of them were there when Tarja left. Thomas and Tarja have been friends since high school and Tarja took piano lessons from his Mom. The last part is what his Mom said to him while he was staying with them. He even has his ears turned off.