NEW Ammo For OLD Guns! Graf & Sons Ammunition (Unboxing) Bannerman Military Surplus Rifle Cartridges
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- čas přidán 7. 11. 2023
- Finally 7.35x51 Carcano is available again! Bannerman Cartridge Company is loading 7.35 ammo along with factory new 7.7 & 6.5 Japanese for Arisaka rifles. They are using PPU brass and although not cheap the price isn't ridiculous either. I ordered this ammunition from Graf & Sons. They also had a good selection of hard to find military surplus calibers from Prvi Partizan. Graf had fast and fair shipping. I certainly see myself ordering from them again in the future.
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I live 20 minutes from Graf and Sons. I have been buying ammo from them in person for years. Great company and great people!
Same lol.
The Bannerman name was purchased by Graf at some point not long ago. Bannerman was the worlds largest military surplus purchaser and seller from the late 1800’s through the post WW2 time period. Pretty cool history of that company if you have the time to look it up.
This is very good news for those who love the old warehorses. Bannerman was the name of a rather big military surplus dealer based out of NY from a fortress on an island in the Hudson River (which caught fire and exploded, ending operations). They bought from governments and sold to governments but also to civilian markets as well so it's a wonderful choice to be a namesake for a company looking to breathe new life into the kind of weapons that Bannerman's used to sell.
7.7x58 Japanese brass can be made from 3006 brass using full length 7.7 dies , lube cut excess brass off with small pipe cutter ,trim to length. The head and rim are similar on these two cartridges,also 8x57Mauser. If you do the Mauser conversation make sure you mark it or use US military brass with no caliber markings same for 7.7. These will chamber in your 3006 rifles and can cause damage if you don’t mark and separate the two loads. CZcams had videos on this project.✌️
Yep, old school hand loaders did this to shoot their war trophies.
Bannerman?
Wow, that's a call back to the old days.
Bannerman was the first real military surplus dealer in the US.
I got to see Bannerman Castle in the Hudson river back in 1991. It was collapsed and sinking into the Hudson river back then. It's probably all but gone now.
First place I heard of Graf and Sons was classified ads in Shotgun News.
Thanks for the great video. I have used Graf & Sons in the past for my Swiss ammo. Good to hear they still have some.
Recently dealt with Graf and Sons, amazing experience, helped me select correct projectiles at unbelievably affordable price, and not only that. Once I figured that I wanted slightly thinner diameter they said, “just send it back, and we ARE shipping you what you need”
Simply perfection!
I've done business with graf and sons quite a bit. Mostly reloading supplies. I like they have flat rate shipping. And keep your spent ppu brass, its actually really good, budget brass.
I love Graf and Sons.... they even carry brand new PPU brass for 7.7 Japanese and even 7.65x53 Argentine.... big big score!
When the use of microfusion (MIM) in the manufacture of firearms was generally extended by weapon manufacturers since the early 1970s, and light aluminum alloy frames became popular, they observed that although They were construction techniques that managed to make firearms cheaper and reduce production times. They had certain material weaknesses that caused some parts to suffer premature fractures, cracks and wear.
As it still had to spend a lot of time improving the MIM alloys and metallurgical techniques, the "gun industry lobby" managed to make a "High Hand Act" and in 1972 the Permanent International Commission on Firearms Testing and the SAAMI, which is who internationally establishes the approvals for cartridges, reduced the maximum pressure values that these ammunition were capable of developing.
In fact, the standard of the previous ammunition was higher to the point of being practically what is known today as "+P" (depending on the manufacturer's values) that were created for the needs of users, such as law enforcement, security professionals, armed forces, etc., who needed "full power" ammunition but with the tagline of not recommending at all the use of "+P" ammunition to avoid responsibilities in the after-sale for the deterioration of the weapons in their sales civilians under warranty.
There are now many ammunitions with very powerful general purpose loads for use with any weapon thanks to metallurgical improvements and MIM process engineering by manufacturers (some more than others, as always).
The fact is that the recurring question always arises whether a classic model from the "PRE-MIM" era (produced with classic forging and machining techniques) can regularly use "+P" ammunition.
To answer this, it must be taken into account that for each of the ammunition manufacturers "+P" does not mean "exactly the same" and that in general, many of those ammunition are very close to the previous pressure values for that cartridge. , and for which those weapons were designed.
If you get one of those weapons in almost unused condition since many people almost never shoot their weapons and end up sleeping in a nightstand drawer for years, they are inherited, and if they exist and sometimes appear on the market, it could be used "+P" ammunition with values close to those of the original standard without major concerns (do not forget that "+P" is not always the same for each manufacturer, and that is why no one undertakes to categorically say if that type of ammunition can be used in previous weapons due to the risk of a lawsuit from civilians Demands).
If we are talking about weapons whose use and history is unknown, we do not know the stress accumulated by the weapon and which generally cannot be observed with the naked eye, out of prudence I would not use "+P".
If we are also talking about original models of a certain historical value for which it may even be difficult to obtain a replacement, we must be cautious and in addition to shooting it very sporadically, use the softest loads available for that cartridge.
In short, use "+P" ammunition that most closely matches the original standard values of the "pre-mim" era and be aware of the condition of your weapon.
Regards!
Graf&Sons has been around for a long time. They had their own label ammo few 10 years back. PPu brass was used.
Thanks for the info! I’ll be checking their site, need all the items you show and more….
Awesome video RR
I've dealt with Graf & Sons for over 35yrs. They are they Very Best Folks in the business.
They have carried/made ammo for surplus firearms for a long time.
Graf & Sons is where I get my black powder from. Great company. Nice to see the Bannerman brand of ammo, too bad that the original Bannerman company is no longer.
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Good to know they have black powder...
Have always had a great service from Graff and Sons.
Graf and Sons has been a source for blackpowder forever. Bannerman's is a classic name for military surplus with a lot of stores in New York. Old timers used to talk about a barrel full of cadet rifles at the store.
I get the feeling that we will see a lot of Carcano ammo pop up on the market. Likely some 8x50 Steyr ammo too.
Great and sons has been around a long time. Got to be good to stay in business.
Awesome information buddy thanks
I was happy with the purchase of 35 Remington.
I'm also here in GA, and have been buying from G&S for years. Mostly reloading stuff for my oldies.
Glad I bought a case of 7.35 Carcano from Fed Ord back in the day!
Welcome Graf's. I've been a loyal customer since before you were born. You may want to check out Old Western Scrounger and Huntington Die Specialties as well.
Nice find! Now I really wish I'd had the caraono rifle. My dad has a Japanese rifle from WW2. Couldn't find ammo for it. Will get some ammo for it now. 😅
Just bought a gorgeous K31 from RTI. Tan my reloaded 7.5 Swiss through it and got just as good as GP11 factory loads.
I live about an hour from Grafs and have a dealer discount with them, they used to give them to C&R holders but stopped I believe.
CETME Bayonet and Graff and sons are awesome
Sga usually has 7.5 swiss soft point. Also norma does make 6.5 Japanese
Grafs and sons is great..they do dealer discounts as well for the dealers out there
Sgammo's free shipping over $200 is a real appealing offering.....
Been buying from them for 10 plus years
never heard of them, thanks
It’s a bayonet for an H&K G-3 rifle.
grafs has been my go to for 7.35x51 for years until recently it was under 30.00 a box and it was precision cartridge inc. norma used to make 7.35x51 but it was not very good and for a while back in the 90's someone was loading in modified 303 british brass and it was scary to shoot.
Another place is casto's curios. They are more expensive but have odd ball calibers.
Good job
I've bought Graf and Sons here and there from random gun shops that would have odd calibers that they somehow got in. I've never ordered directly from them. Most time I've checked stuff is out of stock so I'd assume they randomly do a run of weird stuff.
You MUST start reloading!!! Once you have the brass, you can feed your rifles forever, (as long as you can find primers). If I didn't reload, I couldn't afford to shoot.
Steinel ammo is another company that makes hard to come by ammo. You can get the 7.35 Carcano ammo through them when it’s not out of stock.
Wow, just looked at their website and I am excited. Have you ever shot of that Bannerman ammo? have an old 303 Savage that I have not shot yet, and want to get some to eventually reload. Thanks
yes im going to by some for type99
Thanks for the alert on another source for less-than-common ammunition. But they don't have any 32-20 in stock.
Well I'll be, 7.35 Carcano! Thanks for the info, looking forward to the performance update. P.S. Palm facing inward is not "peace".
PPU ammunition is pretty good. Its very commonplace here in the UK
Sometimes it's good to grab that hard to find ammo and spend a little bit more. Once you obtain that brass, you are sitting on gold for reloading those particular cartridges.
7.35 bullets are the only real problem for the calibers in this video. Lee makes a mold if you have a clean bore. Hornady used to make a .300"dia bullet, but hasn't in years. Maybe they could be persuaded to run a batch for Graff.
Haha 😂 I've been buying their 30-06 for years and am getting their dies for 8x50R Mannlicher.
Please be sure to keep your brass, and reload for your older riles.
I load for my 1898 Kraig and my 1911 30-06.
Oh my, I see others are reloaders too!
I load for my two mentioned rifles and my wife's .38 Special and 9MM pistols.
Got all excited and tried to place an order for Lebel ammo at Graf abd Sons. I found out that they won't ship ammo to NY. Thanks to the hand wringers down in NYC I'm a red headed step child.... so frustrating....
Much as I love 8MM PPU Ammo, this is why I finally caved and started reloading. Not because it saves money. It really doesn't. It just makes certain rounds easier to shoot. Course, that isn't exactly the case with Italian or Japanese Cartridges
Reloading allows you to shoot FAR more for the same money. I can reload 303 British for 15 cents a round with my home poured lead bullets, and pretty much anything else in my collection for right around that same price. Of course, this takes into account that you already have the equipment to produce your own ammo and a stock of brass in your preferred caliber.
@@cleophusA it really does depend on the powder, components, and primers. If you are shooting Norma Brass, have a specialty projectile like 7.35 Carcano, run out of Primers, and use Varget for loading, you can easily hit two to three dollars per round
You can make absolutely anything outrageously expensive if you don't watch what you're doing. I reload to make the most accurate load I can for the cheapest price possible. I rarely ever shoot jacketed bullets except when hunting and many times not even then. It is easily possible to get 10 or more times the shooting out of the same amount of money by reloading. @@Courier-Six
@@cleophusA15 Cents??? Are you stealing the primers, powder and lead? I think you are missing some cost there.
Nothing missing, nothing stolen. I get my lead for free. As a matter of fact, I have enough lead stockpiled to last me the rest of my life. There are many businesses that use lead to shield items in transport and then have to pay a hazardous waste disposal company to come and collect it for recycling. If you ask politely and are diligent in collecting it each month, they would much rather give it to you than have to pay someone to haul it away. As for primers and powder, right now, you can find primers for as low as .07 cents each, and my average price for powder in a rifle cartridge, without going into too much detail, runs around 6 to 8 cents a cartridge. There are still great deals out there in surplus military powders that will keep you shooting cheap for years to come! One of my favorite loads in 45 Colt gives me around 820 8.5 grain loads behind a 200 grain LRNFP which equates to, depending on the cost of primers, around 10 to 14 cents a round. It can be done, you just have to do your homework. @@steveeisenhauer3003
Reloaders know them like family. Speaking of reloading, with some of the cartridges costing $1.50 to $2 per round, it's time for everyone to go out and get you a cheap reloading set up, the dies for your milsurp, the cast bullets from Quality Cast or Matt Bullets and start reloading. I get all my brass and dies from Grafs. I shoot Swedish, Swiss, French, Russian, British, etc and reload cast. Uses a whole lot less powder, easier on your rifles, and the cast bullets fit in the older bores better.
Are reloading rigs cheap again? I was going to start during lockdown. Everyone else seems to have had the same idea, though. Cost less to buy the snowflake rounds at tbe time.
@@alfazagato1455 Depends on the use case for the ammo. If you are stockpiling, just buy the stuff online when sales come around. For shooting, reload. There is an initial cost of around $300, (simple loading press from lee and die set). Find a place local to buy powder & primers because shipping is too expensive on those. Then start reading reloader forums.
Going to check them out to see if they have 11.15x57R for my Austrian Werndel
They do not, lol. The best bet is Buffalo Arms.
Graf & Sons also has percussion caps. I can't speak to the price because they're the only place I've seen #11 caps for years.
you can get the sellor and bellot 7.5 swiss for about 1 dollar a round
If only someone could convince PPU to make 7.62x45 brass.......or even ammo. It's really PPU that should be thanked for bring back some of the more obscure brass.
I hope you save your brass and one day get into reloading. It will change your life man. For the better
Might buy to have an excuse to get a 7.35 Carcano rifle. Lol.
I'll have to check them out. Apparently Casto's Curios is no more. The owner got busted with CP....
Have you ever looked at steinell ammo? They have great stuff
I would love to see some 7mm mauser
Are the 6.5 and 7.35 carcano projectiles the proper diameter? I believe ppu had an issue with that.
In the late 70's I bought a box of Norma 7.7 for 20.00$ I'd say the price has gone way down.
I have had luck at Widner's and Lucky Gunner.
I literally just visited their website and 98% of their ammo for old military surplus rifles was sold out. No 7.5X55 Swiss, No Russian 7.62X54. Everything said out of stock.
Have you seen the s&b 174 7.5x55 Swiss fmj ?
Looks to be a surplus G3 bayonet,I couldn’t really tell if it was German or Portuguese….I couldn’t be wrong all together though
The bayonet is for the Spanish 7.62 NATO bolt action rifles.
It looks like a bayonet for a hkg3 or a Spanish cetme clone but it's hard to tell
do you keep and reload your empty brass. If not, I'll pay post to send to me. I reload most all calibers.
Dang they are using CCI BR-4 primers in that 7.7, those are expensive primers.
Checked their website. Turns out you bought three of the four cartridges Bannerman loads. The fourth is .303 Savage. Not even .303 British! much less than .30-40 Krag that I need.
I'd like to see them add 8x50r for Mannilcher Rifles
Cetme or H&k 91 bayonet the scabbard is cetme I no that
Where can I get 30 40 krag ?
Think ya need to start reloading
If $2.25 a round isnt all that expensive, you must be doing something right
Was that the Mrs.?
G3 bayonet
Thats why you need to reload
Love your content, please stop the skip segment thing though. Keep it up though
Ok, find some 8x52R Siamese
German g3 bayonet I think
762x45
Im in Canada... That ammo isnt avail.( bannermen ) my suggestion...RELOAD save your brass... PPU is, i have some for my 6.5x55..139gr sp...shoots terribly...
Ive used federal fusion. 150% better
Accuracy, i also shoot 303 brit. For long time no ammo avail at all. I e reloaded it. Even component bullets were near impossible to get.
The 312 dia hornady RN for 303 sells here for 80$/100 pc box , PPU BRASS sells 70$/50 pc
Who has 8x50 SP lebel for my carbine first military smokeless French rifle.😊
No 6.5 Carcano?
It’s nice to see more company’s making the ammo for our military surplus rifles. Now I’d we can get more of the box stores carrying it. Gotta give business to the small guys too. Can’t let online shopping take over completely. But anyhow I have an 8mm German Mauser from WWII and it’s all numbers matching, and was made in 1944. Says BYF 44 right on the top of the receiver. But anyways, finding ammo for it is so hard around here. I did find an online company that I bought a whole skid of PPU 8mm Mauser from. And it was a mix between FMJ, and FMJ SP. I bought it for around 200 dollars for the whole skid. And I was so surprised to find it. The skid contained 500 rounds. In 20 round boxes. And I’ve found that some of them had styrofoam casing holders and some plastic casing holders. The only reason I can think of for this is they have trouble getting or making plastic casing holders at times, so to keep up with production, and keep production flowing smoothly, they opt in some cheaper material made casing holders like styrofoam. But yea PPU is solid ammo. I’ve never had a single misfire from it. Every round goes off as intended.
I wonder when someone will get off their butt and make a reproduction Martini Henry and facilitate new manufacture of .577/450 Martini-Henry ammunition. I think a lot of people would be very very into that.
Bayonet is a Cetme L
Thats a cetne rifle bayonet
CETME L bayonet.
🇦🇺😎👍Nice
smh, gotta go and tell everyone about Graf?
Was my thought also......
Hopefully, it will be a good thing in the long run. Keep business growing for Graff AND allow them to procure more product in greater volume, lowering cost.
Look into steinel rook