yes ,all others were really bad, one would pay 300 dollars for the turntable it self ,than the plinth ,the arm , the engine and the cartridge with a stylus,this in 1979, not bits of plastic with a mdf table and a engine nothing else inside wich is strange normally was more complex to get a worst sound
Harley: You are an exceptional teacher, and have a way with words. I’m no more than a novice, and these sophisticated concepts are now fully understood. Thank you, kindly.
Currently own the Rega Planar 6 with Ania MC cartridge. Love it! I’ve been using Rega Turntables since the 80’s starting with the P3. When I traded in the Planar 3 in 2020, it was still running great 35 years later! The P6 is even better and my end game turntable. The book on Rega - titled: “A Vibration Measuring Machine”, is a fascinating read for anyone interested in the story of Rega. Deep respect for their engineering approach. When people refer to Roy as a great turntable designer, he corrects them, stating that he is a mechanical engineer.
but ddoesn´t know what direct drive is or a mechanical system to change speed instead of soiling it everytime you chjange speed makinìt be uncurate in speed the older people wanted a stroboscope ,what the hell did they knew about thjat music was only good after the year 2000,strangelly most of the guitars used are from the 50´s to the 60´s as their amplifiers and speakers
you only learn that a bad turntable is good for you ,a 100€ technics in early 90´s would sound 1000x better, this is undeveloping and unlearning for very high prices ,in my time that was called a steal or a robbery or i would prefer burglery
I've got the rp8, fantastic turntable. I imagine the P10 goes so much further. Rega really offers great value, which I feel Linn doesn't anymore. as a plus setting up the Rega is a dream
I disagree with the value for money bit due to the exceptional quality, service and design of the Linn. I can’t imagine needing another turntable in my lifetime and it will be passed down to my children as an heirloom item. Trouble is I’ve 3 sons so 2 of them will have to make do with my Systemdek IIX 900 and my See Revolver/Ittok. They can burn my Pink Triangle as I would not want to burden any of them with that.
Thanks Matthias. At the end of the day, I think what really matters is if one can identify with the design approach and the cost. As long as the solution is good quality and can be handed down to the next generation and not thrown on the rubbish tip, that’s ok with me. + it has to sound good to!
you disagree with the value for money of the RP8? because you own a Linn? wait.... have you even heard an RP8? are you just trolling someones comments? poor form @@tonyjedioftheforest1364
I'm a Rega fan in any case, and didn't need convincing, but doing the kitchen experiment? Inspired and now doubly convinced! I have set my self the target of a P10 in 2023... it shall be mine.. oh yes... it shall be mine... They ought to give Roy a Knighthood, IMHO.
@@mudachuka12345 Best shop around, they have gone up since l bought mine. Analogue Seduction have them at a shade under four grand that's without the cartridge.
@@renyardfox8227 yep, that seems to be the going rate for one in the UK. The PSU’s are matched at the factory so it comes in the box, you can’t get one without. But second hand /trade ins do come up on eBay from time to time.
As an LP12 owner I loved your analogy to your MG and think you're probably spot on, even though I feel no need to upgrade. At some point you pay your money and make your choice and just get on down the road. At least I do--- but I'm not trying to demo speakers in a showroom. Nice video and if I'm ever in the market again I'll consider the P10.
Absolutely. I am sure if I had already owned an LP12, I would not have purchased the P10. It was only because in our listening room, we were starting from scratch, that I applied the logic I did. Enjoy your LP12! 😀
@@PearlAcoustics And I should add--I'd consider your speakers! But, like my LP12 I'm pretty happy with my DeVores! Still, I truly enjoy these vids. Happy Christmas and thanks!
I don’t think the MG car analogy works. A Porsche 911 has gone through many revisions and remains one of the greatest sport cars on earth when compared to anything else new. The LP12 is the same.
Great discussion and demonstration. I know the "high mass" school of thought puts most of the mass in some form of suspension (springs, etc), which I guess is one way to reduce the vibration at the stylus. Of course, this tends to also require a higher degree of "tweaking" to ensure proper level, tension, etc. I really appreciate the relative simplicity of Rega's approach - more of a "set it and forget it" implementation, which I like. I have friends with high mass turntable setups, which sound fantastic - when they are in perfect adjustment. However, they seem to constantly be tweaking and adjusting them. Meanwhile, I thoroughly enjoy listening to my P6/Ania, which I have not touched since initial setup 3 years ago, and it still sounds phenomenal. I can understand the aesthetic appeal of a massive platter/tonearm assembly floating on a delicate (but finicky) suspension within a massive superstructure, but I'd personally prefer to set my turntable up once and pretty much leave it as is. Although polarizing, I find Rega's minimalist sculptural design to be quite beautiful, and I also appreciate the level of engineering sophistication required to achieve the resulting performance. I find it humorous to read people characterizing the new tables as "flimsy packing foam" or other fairly ignorant slights. The P10 is high on my list, and after seeing how much maintenance my friends must put into their high mass tables (for no noticeable difference in sound quality to my ears), I am sold on the Rega school of thought.
I once had a mk2 240 jaguar 2.4 in red, it was 1998, I remember chased my friend home from wales in his Italian super car and was amazed as I put it in overdrive and it eventually, slowly crept up to 100mph, wowee! I never saw the friend as he was away up the road, but was amazed how this 1968 2.4 got me up to 105 on the m56, this in the days before the proliferation of speed cameras, then I started to get a strong smell of burning diff oil , mmmm, time to take it back to a more steady 70….at this time I was running a hifi shop in east Cheshire, a shop that no longer exists. The jaguar ended up sold and exported to New Zealand and with it I was able to buy my home. My first turntable was a Rega P3. I used to call it the Rega Planar 3, Many thanks for your perspective I’ve enjoyed these videos.
part of my enjoyment, I have to admit, was seeing how the basic design philosophy adapted in the industry leading rega design, and explained so coherently in this video, was also utilized somewhat in my own turntable, although the design objectives differ when it comes to cost and the plinth suspension, since rega would never incorporate a hanging spring acoustic isolation design such as my more cost constrained Michell gyro does. But the basic design understandings are solid, and I often use them to analyze whatever new product I might come across in reports. since I live in an area famous for aero space machine work, I disagree about special locations for precision machining, but do agree that there is such a thing as institutional knowledge, gained when one concentrates on building one type of product to an exceptional standard over time. Although the reduced cost of my demo Michell gyro turntable greatly influenced my buying decision, I did go for a new Michell arm, which, like so many others , is simply a tastefully modified Rega arm. Why reinvent the wheel , when there is no need . Since human hearing is so subjective, I think a lot of the value perceived in the ultra expensive audio stuff is just desire and ego gratification. since hearing , and Hi Fi itself, is all a process of illusion, at some point one has to question the need for a whole battle ship of a playback system, since fun shouldn't really be that demanding. Of course, if you want to be a Hi Fi nut, live it up, I have always adapted a position of being solidly pro fun, and that record is unchanged to this day, and unblemished.
Richard, the human ear is the best and final arbiter of sound quality. At what level we become satisfied is the prerogative of each individual. The quest of trying to match a 'battle ship playback system' with polystyrene float money is both rewarding and great fun. The joy of this hobby is that excellent sound can be achieved affordably through time and effort. There is, however, nothing wrong with those who cannot afford either the time or effort but have the resources to leapfrog to high quality instantly. I understand and appreciate your approach and sentiments, but just wish to add that us 'hi-fi nuts' can both avoid spending mega money and thoroughly enjoy the journey.
Thanks for your comment. I see HiFi as one of either two things: a necessary tool to do my work or a fun way to spend my time acquiring equipment and learning about design and history. And of course ( in both cases - listening to music). However, just like some want to spend money in cars or watches or antiques, others choose HiFi. Adjusting budget to suit. there’s a place for all. Enjoy!
Thank your for these videos. Hope you make many more as long as it interests you to do so. I own the P10 and spent the past summer listening to much higher priced turntables and of course, all were greater mass. I never got the sense that these tables delivered the music in a better way than the Rega. It was an enlightening experience.
I wholeheartedly agree with your analogy of a honed version of an old design versus a modern clean sheet one. I was also of the opinion that I was future proofing myself by going for the P10 - each element being designed without having to conform to previous ideas of what a turntable should look like (some having more effort put into the finish that it becomes a piece of furniture!) The Tan cast foam, the EBLT belts, that wonderful RB3000 tonearm which is so free of play with no VTA adjustment being a further example of how that analyse every factor and the ceramic platter for as dead a material as possible. And to cap it all it's not second mortgage money so it's not priced out of the market like some esoterica (SME, TechDas, Kronos, Kuzma, etc.)
I started with a P8/Apheta3 and had the opportunity to compare to a P10/Apheta3 through my Class A electronics and Revel Salon2 speakers. There was a noticeable and meaningful improvement in sound staging and lower noise floor. I upgraded without giving it a second thought.
The Rega P10 is a fabulous turntable ! I listened to it during several afternoons, in our portuguese importer, which is also the importer of fabulous, very High-End, ClearAudio turntables ... I listened also the ClearAudio Innovation, which cost 2,5 times more than the P10, with the SAME cell, same records.... The Clearaudio Innovation, that looks, amazing, BEAUTIFUL, was very slightly, better, a very small margin .... So, this is a great compliment to Rega P10 ....
Roy Gandy is a really amazing person I have met him a few times over the years. He listens to what you say in a conversation and responds wonderfully and with great humility. I am intrigued to hear the P10 in full cry! I remember starting off with a Planar 3 as my first turntable and it was good as a very honest well engineered record player.
ebay have the Rega P10 for £3000 or more depending on the cartridge, which is even more affordable than brand new, many are less than a year old. Part 3 eagerly awaited.
As a former MGA owner, I agree! If you used a similar argument people who are fanatical about digital over analog and solid state over tubes. Thanks my friend!
Superb review of the P10. Many years ago 1990 Rega did a demonstration Evening at the Cornflake Shop and I was impressed by what I heard Rega Plannar 2 and 3 . When it came to questions , I asked him if he ever considered making an even better turntable and take on the LP12 , he seemed surprised by the question and said he was best just concentrating on what Rega did best . I pressed the question " I know you could do it. I think its a shame that people will " upgrade" from a Rega Plannar 3 to a Sondek ( Hifi magazine folklore) " . He laughed and said " Who knows one day " Now I'm not saying the P10 is down to me but he must have asked that same question many times .
@@PearlAcoustics if that's true, I want a P10 for acknowledgement 🤣 I kid you not its a true story . At that time I just bought a Roksan Xerses which was a superb deck . If only that power supply stayed reliable. Anyway I'm happy with my Technics 1500c which actually reminds me of the Roksan .
@@nasdkhan254was it an original Roksan Xerses; wood engulfed electronics?🤷🏻♂️🙈🙈 I still the original Xerses which I still love, but no on my third different type of PSU.
I was able to audition both the P8 and P10 in my home, with my own equipment, and you’re right, there was no contest between the two. I normally prefer vintage looking equipment, but on this case the engineering, sound, and design won out. I’ve been a happy P10 owner ever since. Thank you for another thoughtful and informative video.
@@KM-wl1tp The P10 sounded more refined in the top end. I listen to a lot of Jazz, and there was more sparkle with the ride cymbal on the P10. The bass also sounded tighter with the P10, although the difference wasn’t as obvious as it was with the top end. The P10 tonearm is so incredibly light, that it made the P8 tonearm feel heavy by comparison. I also preferred the P10 power supply, specifically the separate 33rpm and 45rpm switches. I hope that helps.
@John LaMarca thankyou. I think I will get the P10 next year. But will keep the p8 for a while also, then sell later. Your comments on the sound difference have echoed other ppl I have spoken to.
@@KM-wl1tp oh my, that’s difficult. Alm I can say was there was more detail. And it seemed more musical but this comment sounds ridiculous, on reading it back. The difference was noticeable but selling an 8 for a 10 is a big step. You really would need to do a side by side comparison and be willing to spend a lot of money for what is, essentially a small but noticeable difference.
Hello Harley, your insights sure takes the guess work out of buying the Rega P10. Also the fav light you have cast on Mr Gandy makes Rega a technically and musically sound buy ! I very much look forward to Part 3.
Every Linn Sondek can be upgraded to the latest specifications. Dealers will also give a part exchange deal on your old Sondek for a more recent one. I did that in 1990 for my 1980 deck but still had to wait a week for them to set up and fully test before I took it. Upgrading my first Sondek would have taken longer. In 2022 I took some of the possible upgrades, but there was no limit to what I could have chosen to do. For the money of the 2022 upgrade and replace the cartridge the 32 year old Sondek I could not have got a new Rega P10 but could have nearly paid for a p8 with cartridge. At this level you are not going to be disappoint which ever route you end up taking.
Another great vid and I agree the Rega is a very good sub £4k turntable (without cartridge). However, I think you'll find other manufacturers such as SME, Clearaudio, Kuzma, Thorens and Avid to name just a few put as much effort in their designs and engineering philosophy as Rega does and they also produce fantastic turntables. Love the car.
Thank you. Very kind. You’re absolutely right. About other designers… I only chose Rega because their approach seemed to be both challenging and yet aligned with mine. I.E. simplicity, remove whatever does not make it work better. And try and make it at a realistic, sustainable price. Without getting greedy.
I was also thinking all the way through this talk that surely other manufacturers also put a similar amount of effort into finding solutions to these problems. However, maybe the genius of Rega's approach is seeking and finding efficient solutions that produce products that are more affordable?
@@mgsee absolutely. I suspect that too many manufacturers simply rely on past successes and do not invest in sonic improvements rather than production efficiency improvements and look and feel improvements
Such an excellent presentation and analysis of the main variables. Great insight. I genuinely think the de-mystifying of the art of great turntable engineering is vital to the progress of its availability to the masses. Rega team defy all the odds to bring ridiculous listening pleasure to those on a modest income. I reckon I've spent less than £1.25k on my RP3 and its upgrades and I don't think I'll ever sell it on. Thanks for making such cohesive and coherent videos.
Wonderfull Video, for all the reasons you mentioned is why I chose to get a Rega P3! Mass = Money, turntables built on mass are just unaffordable, I like my hifi regardless of sound to look understated!
I am bemused by the fact that people are still trying to extract perfect sound from an LP in the 21st century. The source material is either and analogue tape or a digital file. Why not just go to the source material for perfection i.e. the master copy? The only reason to be interested in vinyl today is because vinyl masters differ enormously from CD masters in the dynamic range and dynamic compression. In the early days of CDs there were no differences but then someone realized that you could make CD masters louder than vinyl masters. 16 bit CD digital music will always be better than that from an LP because of S/N issues and accurate decription by most players and certainly through EAC ripping of the WAV files. The fact that most analogue people do not understand that a digital representation of an analogue signal does not aprpoximate anything up to the Nyquist frequency is moot because they do not understand the physics and don't appreciate that all you need to reproduce an analogue signal is the frequency (wavelength) and the amplitude. This is what is attained through sampling. You do not lose precision the higher you increase the sample rate. Just get a proper life and find proper sources for your music in the digital realm. Jethro Tull releases by Steve Wilson would be a good start. I speak as someone who owned a Sugden A21 on the 70s and actually did physics. Don'y be ostriches.
Hi thanks for your comment and contribution to the topic. I think it’s very important to appreciate that many people gain enormous enjoyment from collecting and playing vinyl. I think it has everything to do with the tactile aspects and the fact that it can sound ‘nice’. Especially when a vinyl is mastered for vinyl. Us humans are not logical people, I think in all our lives we can all find areas where decisions are made on emotional rather than scientific reasons. Enjoy the music. I hope you enjoyed the series, none the less?
One word. The “ visceral” effect. There are thousands of people who can afford a 2024 Bugatti Chiron but chose to invest in classics from the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s. The newer car would walk the older ones in every measurable criteria and the investor could give a flying rats @zz. 😎👍
@@motuknight5569 Perfect comparison! Friends are blown away when they drive my classic 911. There's more to driving a sports car than just how quick or fast it is, just as there is more to music equipment and formats than just what can most accurately reproduce a live performance.
I approve this message….That’s why I mostly purchase vinyl from yesteryear…most are recorded in stereo….but,even then it depends on how it’s been recorded (mastered)😂😂😂😂😂
Mr werdnarot… We are forgetting the one thing that almost no digital music source (with perhaps the exception of box sets) has…The album jacket. To me, being able to see the artwork and photography and read the background of the recording, the “liner notes” often contributed by some interesting third-party, and most important to me, the personnel on the LP…who engineered and produced it, where/when ea. track was recorded, and of course the musicians and singers involved. We can get some of this information today via the Internet, but certainly not all of it. And there was something very satisfying about studying the album jacket while watching the LP spin and of course listening to the tracks. The tactile nature of all of this is lost in digital music and that fact has pushed the entire listening experience from something you/we focused upon..either individually or a group of 3-4 friends sitting around focused on the music ( or comedy/other audio performance )… and a background layer that no one is paying attention to. The loss of the album jacket changed the music industry for the much worse IMO.
Very nice review - Like you, I have very fond memories concerning the MG Midget. A week before my best friend was deployed to Vietnam, he borrowed his mother's MG Midget (it was also red). We went out and misbehaved. The fun part with the MG was the fact that it was so low, the doors would not open when parked next to a sidewalk with high curbs. To get out of the car, I spent the day rolling out of the MG onto the sidewalk. All the best, Paul
Very good video !! 👍👍 And your english is perfect !! I bougt the Rega P9 (rb 900) in 1997... It was a fantastic turntable !! Now I will perhaps buy the new Rega Naia because i agree with the approach Rega engineering.... Best regards from France 🇫🇷
Harley what a great discussion. I’ve never heard it done better when it comes to turntables. I have a P6 and I was drawn to it for the external power source. I love it and use it almost every day. I was fascinated by Rega as a company going against the grain with less mass for vibration control. Got to admire engineers who see things differently and pursue perfection like that. I’m glad to see you’re a car enthusiast as well. I have a Porsche 911 and its the same forward thinking and engineering that draws me to Porsche. I can’t wait to hear your thoughts in Part 3.
Loved this video and you put across a very compelling argument. I myself was in the market for a turntable upgrade around the £5K area. I already had had a Pink Triangle and a Rega P3 in the past but preferred the Linn but being impatient if something was going to take more than a couple of months on the waiting list then I looked elsewhere. The technology was very appealing in the P10 but so was the technology and build quality in the Linn. To me it’s like comparing a Stradivarius to a modern carbon fibre violin or a classic 1960’s Strat to a soul less modern one. I pondered for almost 2 years, my head saying Rega but my heart said Linn. If I had gone for the Rega I would have always thought should I have got the Linn. In fact that thought has been in my head for more than 40 years. Whenever I heard the LP12 I thought I should have bought one. I am a very similar age to you so for my landmark birthday I have ordered a 2022 Linn LP12, it’s coming tomorrow and I am so excited. Just hope the snow doesn’t get worse delaying the installation!
Well, after all we are only humans. And my experience always confirms the same thing. If logic is telling me one thing but my heart isn’t in it, then go with one’s heart. Because it’s passion that makes life worth living.
@@mike_lowndes it’s got to be the Linn. I am sat here listening to Neil Diamonds Hot August Night for the 5th time today while typing this. As my son says Neil is actually in the room with us. Can’t believe I have waited more than 40 years to get one. All the hype had put me off in the past but by god I can now say the hype is spot on. It’s the most amazing thing I have ever bought.
I discovered this channel quite by accident. Thoroughly enjoyable and educational. I am an audiophile in much the same way that a brick isn't. I am, though, baffled by the fact that Rega has left the "closed cell" foam core open on the edges and wonder how changes in humidity might affect the density of the core and ergo the sound of the turntable.
Hi Doug. I think you can rest assured that because if the type of foam and that it is closed cell. That humidity will have absolutely no impact on it. It is not spongelike. - I hope! 😀
I still have a technics SL-1200, 11 or 12 lb. Platter that will spin up to speed in 1/2 turn. That was a feature DJ’s for radio liked. Set the arm on the record an spin manually till it registers sound and backup 1/2 turn. When ready turn it on. I liked the fact that besides the platter is heavy, the case and cover are heavy. The legs are isolated from the rest. You can have the house shaking, it won’t feedback into the case, platter, and arm. The direct drive motor has no hum or buzz, very quite. The center bearing is extremely quite, even in low passages in the music. Still use it.
In reality the linn suspension was for AC motor noise reduction towards the main bearing. As time when on, reducing motor noise entering the bearing has pinnacled to its present top DC motor main bearing set up. OH yes, a properly tunes linn suspension does help with acoustic feedback entering the LP but it is motor isolation at its best. That vital union between the platter, spindle, bearing and sub-chassis is now the strongest they have ever achieved. Also the keel is very light and rigid and can be a turntable on its own. Add 3 feet and an external motor. Radikal is the highest performance motor control and power supply available for the Sondek LP12 turntable and comes complete with a brushed DC motor that replaces the standard LP12 AC motor. Radikal also powers the Urika 1 and 2 internal phono stage for the LP12, where fitted. Radikal brings together several breakthrough technologies that enable a completely new and innovative approach to motor control in the LP12, significantly improving its performance. To ensure perfect timing, Radikal’s speed management system auto-calibrates the motor every time the Sondek LP12 is powered on. With radically reduced electromagnetic noise levels, the precious-metal brushed DC motor delivers a huge improvement in signal-to-noise ratio, getting you even closer to the music. Due to the unique design of both Radikal and the Urika phono stage, Radikal can be used on its own simply to power and control the motor, or in tandem with Urika, for a doubly impressive upgrade.
I’m a fan of Rega turntables…Own the p25 and the rp8 excellent sounding turntables…They’re so good if we’re having guests and I’m demonstrating my system to the guys….Everyone would stop and start dancing….🤣🤣🤣🤣 Rega are just that good….Now, I have my eyes set on the up and coming NAIA…I hope too have one😂👍
If you drive an old car it is absolutely the same experience to me. You exactly know - me as a mechnkcal engineer - what goes on from carburator to the drive shaft, from the steering wheel to the rack and pinion, from the butt to the tire. As you grow familiar with the car you learn to listen to it and truely identify any disturbing noise in the gear box, the motor, the suspension. You can immediately hear when it is time for an oil change, when your drive shafts or knuckles need some love. It becomes part of you. In opposite a 991-2 is driving perfect, gives you the experience of perfection but you can not get in touch with it because the suspension is digitally controlled, the connection from drive pedal to throttle body is cut mechanically, there is no direct connection from steering wheel to front hub and so on. If there is a failure you have no idea what is wrong and you may respect but never really love this car.
Another superb video Harley. I really like your calm, thoughtful and methodical approach, and the pacing of your comments interspersed with great visuals. Loved the wine glass demonstration too. Can't wait for Part 3, but Yes is the answer!
Great video, but no one talks about vibrations coming thru the air from speaker low frequency waves. The tone arm is extremely important it should be tuned to a few hertz
Thanks! Indeed good point. The results can vary enormously. I forgot to mention ruin that I had carried out some simple low frequency feedback tests, and both turntables performed very well indeed.
What a terrific video, Harley. I thought that if I ever upgrade from my Clearaudio Concept, I would probably go for the Rega P6. So fascinating to hear about the amazing engineering behind Rega's products. Thanks.
Every Rega suffers from the same design fault. All the noisy elements, i.e. motor and bearing fix directly to the plinth that the tonearm also sits on. Origin Live have a better design, the motor is separate and sits on its own, only fixed to the platter by the belt. The tonearm is decoupled from the bearing. This prevents noise from the motor or bearing finding its way to the cartridge. On top of all that the Origin Live looks fantastic. Thank you for taking the time to make this video.
@@rongreen1538 Read again. If you separate platter from the tonearm, they are separated, but when the tonearm and stylus is in touch with the record (LP) - there is contact from this separation. Now, read this ten times, and you will understand.
Sounds like a paid ad for Rega. My first visit to your channel, and this is my first impression. I could be wrong. I will subscribe and stay tuned and determine if this is par for the course or if this is just that special of a turntable. Just an FYI after your presentation I will likely purchase a P10. I have always been a large mass guy but this all makes sense. Again I will wait a while and see what I see. Either way thank you for the interesting video series and presentation. Cheers from Italy 🇮🇹
Hi thank you for your kind comment. Please let me reassure you 100% that I do these videos totally out of interest for the topic. No one pays me and I do not even monetise them. Welcome to the channel
@@PearlAcoustics your passion and knowledge is amazing. I hope I didn’t offend but the way things are with reviews both in print and on CZcams I was skeptical. I’m going to buy one for sure based on your recommendation. I currently have a few turntables that either cost more or are similar in price. I will buy it and report back. All things being said all of my TT’s are large and heavy or very large and heavy platter styles. Your explanation makes a lot of sense. If Rega explained the science as well as you have more people would make the switch. Thanks again for the input.
Indeed 😂 but it’s not quite how it seems…. My wife’s hobby / passion is cooking. Mine is music and writing. So she has ‘her’ kitchen where what she wants goes and I have my office and listening room. It’s a very good arrangement. She cooks and I am aloud to wash up and clear things away, exactly how she wants it, when the meal’s finished.
@@PearlAcoustics yes, I wonder if that beautiful resonant table doesn't cost more than Rega P10.. :) Good listen! Inspiring to see that you appreciate Rega, even though you obviously don't share Roy's view on speakers not having to be a beautiful furniture :)
Fabulous video ! . I've always admired REGA for their constant fight to improve their products, even though it must be so difficult with such a fine margin. I don't own a turntable at this present time, but this video has sure got me thinking about a REGA, and my late uncles record collection (2000 LP's) that maybe I should give a spin.
@@PearlAcoustics well he was my main influence in music, and there sure are a lot of classics in his collection. There is even a copy of dsotm pink Floyd with the solid blue triangle and poster and stickers intact.
I don't know too much about music reproduction to be honest, the philosophy for cars is the smaller and lighter the car the more feel you get in terms of the mechanics so it seems like Rega is taking that same concept to turntables. The weight is good for getting rid of jumpiness however it's nice to see Rega solving the problem mechanically.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned the five part CZcams video series put out by Michael Fremer titled “Analog Planet Visits Rega Research” from 2017. It complements this video nicely.
Great efforts and research to try enhancing a physical / analog / old technology that had a huge impact on music accessibility. If people are willing to pay that kind of money for a well engineered mechanical device, that's their business! This will give you a certain type of sound, great if you like it! In my case, i sold my Linn Sondek LP12 along with all my vinyls (i had 20 000 of them!) and i have absolutely no regret. I liked it while i had it, but the current less expensive hardware i have now sounds better (to me!). I have now Ayre QB-9 / Hypex Nilai 500 DIY Stereo and Preamp / Ryan R610, before i had Krell KSA-100s / KRC-3 / Linn Sondek LP12 / Dunlavy SC-IV. Sold my previous kit for good money, i loved it. I want to be closer as possible to the original recording, and it's not an analog "direct engraving" that will bring you that (but it brings you a certain type of sound!). Simply out of competition for fidelity compared to rightly done digital. Same apply with tube amps that adds high level of harmonic distortion to the signal. But you're right, they look awesome and some people like this added distortion ("it sounds rich" ). I'm not questioning people preferences for the vinyl or tube type of sound or the "art and glamour" surrounding the vinyl comeback, i'm just find it poetic and more of a taste of the past, as you just spoke about your old car: That's perfect for those who are into this, it's still available! I'm glad to see people preferring this "arty" form of sound reproduction being able to get what they want, just like this very good Rega P10 piece of solid engineering! I'm an electrical engineer so for me, i look ahead, and i don't say that with any arrogance. It's our way of thinking, just as you described the engineering process behind the Rega P10. The form of "art" i love is the engineering design (much less poetic, i know!), and i have utter respect for what the Rega team did with their turntable design. We never had access to such a level of fidelity we have now for such affordable prices! ... and it hurts many so-called "High End" Audio Companies that are struggling to justify high prices, thanks for information and technical data we can get more easily now. Engineering is a continuous process and we can come with better results as we use methods, knowledge and evolution of electronics in general. Just think about the new GaN transistors as an example or the more computing power we have + evolution of transistor density chip design, paving the way to advanced DSP and much more. More sophisticated test and measurement methods / test sets. Research done on human hearing and perception, etc. Not to mention aesthetic and materials and better manufacturing capability, higher level of constant quality and monitoring. This is the same in the digital world, just think about the Chord DAVE DAC that gets worked out pretty well by current much lower priced DACs! Technology is evolving, sometimes rapidly, and the ones that are not able to follow must find a way / a market to sell their stuff. Just try an SMSL SU-1 DAC, currently unbeatable for under 100$ !! But don't make the mistake of thinking that every recording will sound great, there are unfortunately tons of records with low level sound quality, be it on vinyl or digital... The current pitiful "loudness war" is the antithesis of sound quality and naturalness. Companies that do that don't respect music at all, they fall into mediocrity... I use a set of tracks to test sound systems and part of that are recordings from Patricia Barber / Diana Krall / Anat Fort / Bob James Trio (to name a few!): These recordings sound marvelous, they were done by very competent and respectful sound engineers! So, happy listening to everybody here and enjoy the pleasure of relaxing with your preferred music / form of art!
Thank you for the very interesting details about the decision to go with the Rega P10. Definitely an excellent turntable. However, the idea of the low mass is not entirely conclusive to me, because it contradicts some findings in building physics. The experiment with the wine glass is impressive in any case. But how would it have turned out if the table top had not been made of heavy granite but of a very light material? A comparison would be very interesting..... But it doesn't matter, I'm not pursuing the goal of the highest level of hearing perfection. For me it is important that I could get my son interested in vinyl. We celebrate listening to music together. This is priceless. We play our records on an early Thorens TD124/MKII with SME 3009. A turntable that's as old as I am. We're both fascinated by it, and that's wonderful.
Indeed some of it is! However, Rega make turntables from as little as a few hundred pounds. + the secondhand market is a great place to start. Or to build one’s own HiFi. There are so many kits and video tutorials out there. Great sound doesn’t always have to be extremely expensive
Thanks for your usual professional, high quality and well considered presentation. There are two important sources of vibration that you did not mention, but perhaps you intended leaving them to your next episode on how the P10 performs. The first is resonance introduced into the turntable system from the stylus tracking the groove. Unlike the other sources that you mentioned, stylus resonance cannot be eliminated, only prevented from influencing the signal. When well resolved, the level of clarity, tone and detail from vinyl is astounding and exceeds that of an average digital system. In my opinion, this is what sets turntables apart. Secondly, feedback from the speakers into the turntable via the air and more specifically the physical elements of the room and equipment supporting structures, affects bass response. Turntables that resolve this aspect well will generate non-resonant, subtle and extended bass that one never thought was possible from vinyl. Generally speaking, most turntables sound reasonable when playing pop, jazz and small classical works, but medium to large scale works with loads of midrange and treble energy from orchestra (particularly mass violins), choir, soloists etc are another matter. When your turntable is able to reproduce such works perfectly when played loud, without any audible distortion or colouration, then you know you have achieved audio nirvana. Such a turntable will also make previously damaged records sound more acceptable because previous distortion is replaced by distortion free tracking of the damaged groove walls, which, although a copy of the original distortion, is far less irritating. I sincerely hope that the P10 succeeds where most others have failed. Good resonance control will also enable the cartridge to successfully track at up to 40% lower VTF, resulting in longer stylus and groove life.
Hear you on stylus resonance, P10 owner here and this can be helped along with a different mat. I use a Collaro red mat, on the recommendation of my Rega dealer. Even more effective is an Origin Live Gravity One damping puck. Not a clamp (not the Rega way) but at 40odd grammes in weight just the right weight to damp stylus based vibrations. It works really really well, even on a deck like tbe P10. An explainer for me is that the tancast foam/ ceramic platter/ Rega engineering construction handles the vibration coming UP from the environment, the Origin One damps and eliminates any resonance coming DOWN from the stylus / LP surface interaction.
@@bobannon7799 Yes Bob, mats do help in taming resonance and in somes cases can do an amazingly good job. A couple of years ago I experimented with two LP12s using various mats including the Funk Firm's Achromat while playing a Tracy Chapman record. With the Achromat, both turntables made the recording sound beautiful, but with any other mat, it sounded terrible, also on both turntables - lots of high frequency agitation and some distortion. The differences were startling. I concluded that upper frequency resonance superimposed itself on the primary signal causing, at best, the upper frequencies to be amplified and , at worst, high level distortion. I think it is for this reason that many users have criticised or dislike the Achromat for dulling the sound. My feeling is that the Achromat just does a good job of removing spurious resonance, but it is possible that it might also influence the primary signal in some way. I did not envestigate this further and have not reached any definite conclusions. I regarded the Achromat as a Band Aid solution, preferring to resolve resonance issues in the turntable itself until the upper midrange and high frequencies were free of agitation, but without sounding truncated. Some listeners obviously enjoy the upper frequency boost that resonance can provide, feeling a greater sense of resolution and detail. It is, however, false detail and contributes to what I regard as typical hi-fi sound that is impressive, but can never be regarded as having the smoothness combined with unrestrained detail inherent in live performances.
@@bobannon7799 My apologies, I did not see your last two paragraphs. I have no experience of the Origin Live puck and I am pleased it works well for you on the P10. I was surprised to discover that on my turntable, clamps, weights etc over the record made no audible difference other than helping with warped records. Your explainer is very plausible and makes sense. I have not heard a full explanation of exactly why or how the various sources of resonance affect turntable performance. My assumption is that tracking based resonance feeds both down into the turntable via the platter and bearing, up into the cartridge and arm and finally via the arm back into the turntable. I would expect levitating platters and completely isolated arms to solve resonance induced problems, but that does not seem to be the case. My assumption is that resonance needs to be dissipated rapidly, so each isolated component needs to find a good way of doing that. If all components are tightly locked together, there is probably a better chance of introducing dissipation mechanisms. The design choices seem to include resonance isolation, absorption or combinations thereof. Prevention of resonance based tracking does not seem to be possible. I am completely out of my depth here, so would appreciate direction from a knowledgeable engineer.
Indeed that would be very interesting. But, unfortunately, I have very little knowledge in that field. I would have to start from scratch and get hold of a very wide collection. I think the research alone would be considerable, especially as some cartridges are likely to perform better with certain pickup arms, than others.
Very nice video, what would have been nice to add for you experiment was too prove their approach which you didn’t really by just showing a glass of water on top of an heavy countertop. A way you could have done that is with a high density foam panel/board use for floor. You do the same exercise but now with the glass on a high density foam and show if there’s any difference. I’m also in engineering and usually the typical approach for something like this is to use the benefit of both, what I mean by that is you use an heavy base and you uncouple it using some engineered material (depend of the use case) to a lighter piece of machinery.
Thank you Harley for this wonderful explanation of the technology that goes into a very good turntable. I'm also a Formula 1 race car fan so the connection between those high tech cars and a premium piece of audio tech fascinates me to no end. I half expected you to go into the aerodynamics of the Rega P10 at any moment knowing how important that particular dynamic is to a F1 race car. Of course I'm not serious about aerodynamics as they pertain to turntables but hopefully that gives you some idea about what a complete job I think you have done on this video. I so look forward to the third installment on audio tech that is forthcoming. p.s. I too once owned a MG sports car. Mine being the MGB from1971 thus I can really relate to the comparison and/or analogy you used with cars and turntables.
Very interesting. I bought a P10 last year after buying a pointlessly heavy Dr F table and becoming so frustrated with it, Looking fwd to your next episode.
Sie sind wirklich mit Herzblut dabei und überzeugt! Kein Zweifel, der P10 ist ein großartiger und hervorragender Plattenspieler! Trotzdem ist es meine Meinung, meine Überzeugung: Die Motorachse muss identisch sein mit der Plattentellerachse! Natürlich muss das ein spitzenmäßiger Motor sein! Ich bevorzuge direktgetriebene Player, z. B. Thorens oder mein 1977er WEGA P550.
Regarding the vibration experiment with the massive granite worktop, I think this was fundamentally wrong *(edit:* I dont necessarily disagree with the idea of reducing mass, just with the experiment). The reason why we saw the vibrations probably (if not surely) hide in that this bench probably doesn't sit properly on the floor. I can scientifically explain what happens when three of the four legs rest on the floor, but there's no need for it is something we all met in everyday life. Something like this depending on the circumstances (like the % of the object's mass that lays above the triangle determined by the three legs touching the floor) can result vibrations on the object even with the slightest contact, *and regardless the weight of the object;* it might weigh 1,000 kilos or ten tons and still to present vibrations with the slightest touch. Bottom line: it is essential how an object rests on the ground or wherever..
Thanks for your comment. However I can assure you that all four legs are firmly on the solid slate floor. A seismologist has already explained in an earlier comment how vibrations travel easier through mass, rather than mud.
@@PearlAcoustics And of course the seismologist is correct. But I as a Civil Engineer (structural as well) have a different view of this issue and on what might cause a system to vibrate and how a system vibrates. A Seismologist studies geophysics whereas a Civil Engineer disigns almost every structure you see above and below the Earth's surface. In other words vibrations on structures is vastly more in the field of Civil Engineering than Seismology. (Edit: considering that this soft cloth the way you use it cant give/transmit any kind of vibration to the bench) I find it difficult if not impossible that by rubbing this massive furnature with a cloth, you're reaching the natural frequency of this object, as it happens when we rub the rim of a glass of wine causingit to vibrate (making sound). Thus the only logical explanation for the vibrations we all saw in this experiment you permormed, is how this bench rests on the floor. Thing is that if the center of mass lays right on the hypotenuse of the triangle I mentioned on my previous comment (and in the case of a rectangle with an ~even weight distribution you expect it to lay very close to the hypotenuse), the slightest touch can cause the bench to lose its balance. If the force causing it to lose its balance is periodical, the object thus seems to vibrate, when in reality it just loses and recovers balance. There can be no other explanation. This is my opinion... Note at this point that in Civil Engineering we too extensivelly study vibrations. Have a look at the Tacoma Narrows Bridge and you ll surely understand why. Thank you for making these videos, I appreciate your reply, Regards
Got the P10 six months ago. It is my third Rega 'table. Once again it was set up in no time and once again it requires no attention from me whatsoever. Had no idea how noisy my P6 was! I considered an LP12, but the local dealer told me it requires "installation" after they assemble the bucket of bolts that comes from Scotland. I've been into stereo for 40 years and have never needed anyone to set it up for me. I feel weird about a piece of equipment that complicated.
Thank you again for a great video. I am excited about the chapter 3. And I ask you,... please, do more videos about the other gear you are going to use in the listening room (digital sources, amp,...)
Fantastic video, thank you for the time and effort you put into it and your series! It is extremely difficult, nearly impossible, to compare turntables objectively. And even in the unlikely event of perfect conditions (same speakers, cartridge (synergy?!), source, environment!), you can't "match" personal tastes, of course. Glad you found your perfect choice, enjoy the astonishing P10! It is definitely on my shortlis of possible future upgrade-paths... Meanwhile, I've been enjoying my Technics SL1200GR + Ortofon 2M black or AT33PTG/ii for 5 years now, wonderful sounding combinations, in my opinion ❤ By the way: You should maybe consider purchasing the new UHQR Steely Dan - "Aja" release for your showroom. One of the, if not THE best sounding record I have ever heard (and I honestly heard a lot 😊). All the best, Michael from Germany
Thanks Michael for your very motivational comment. If you’ve been enjoying your turntable for over 5 years then I don’t think there’s much point in upgrading, you might even regret it! The Technics definitely has its advantages. Enjoy the music. Best wishes from Belgium
I had a massive piece of industrial granite that is milled to a perfect flat plane. It was so dense as to be inert. I had a Musical Fidelity M1 'table with SME tonearm/ Dynavector Karat 17D3 cartridge on there. Reproducing that experiment with the cloth woukd have, I believe, produced no vibration. I cannot say why your glass was vibrating? That is odd.
Indeed, but that’s exactly why I carried out the test for myself. Geologists tell us that vibrations pass very easily through hard substances, and that when you lower the mass, the energy is absorbed. (I have put this very crudely) I didn’t believe Rega’s reasoning either until I did the experiment and read the book they wrote on the topic. Remember, my granit slab (which weighs, I guess, well over 100kg) has a very slight Dimpled texture, the soft cloth rubbing very gently on it managed to generate enough energy to travel right through it, the glass (if you remember) is sitting on a slight ridge in the granite, so that it could rock, slightly with the smallest impulse. If I had carried out the same exercise on a piece of rubber, the glass would not have moved, because the rubber would have absorbed the energy created by the cloth, before it reached it.
Another important thing to get rid of in motors is whats known as the "cogging" effect as the armature moves from winding to winding or pole to pole, the more poles the smoother the motor and more consistent the drive speed is maintained - a five pole motor is smoother than a three pole etc etc. im surprised this was not mentioned here.
Hi, thanks for your addition to the discussion. Your point is absolutely true, however, for the last decades I think all manufacturers have designed for this situation, to the extent that the Rega power supply on the P10 only gives out pulses exactly when needed. But it’s a good point you make.
Hi Paul. Thank you for your kind words. I will try and get my hands an Aura phono stage. We do have a customer, or two in Australia. But we only sell direct. Who knows, one day we might have a listening room there?
I really want an Aura. It is fully balanced with XLR outs. Oh, a dream. But it costs an arm and leg, though my bank account has the money, my wife wouldn't be happy. I have the Aria Mk3, still sounds very good.
@@rabarebra better to have a happy and loving wife, than a piece of HiFi kit that sounds marginally better than another. There is always someone with something sounding better… but family: that’s priceless.
@@SidLives I purchased the Aria Mk3 based on its praises from the seller. But found out afterwards the seller actually personally owns a Aura (got it cheap from Rega, of course). And after a few months I said I wasn't satisfied with the Mk3 noisefloor, and he admitted that the Aura is more quiet, but I need to hear it for myself at home to be 100% sure. It is four times the price of the Aria. The only necessity for Aura as I see it, is if you really need long cabling distances - say in a professional installation. I'm not sure if its private use, unless the sound is hugely improved, because the Aria Mk3 really sounds good - but when you push the gain or listen to records using your headphones - it comes too short to me - too noisy. Maybe someone with insight can tell us something about the Aura, except for it being fully balanced on its outs. Edit: I only describe the unit using MC stage. Never had or tried it with a MM, and I'm not interested in the MM's.
If 6,000$ is affordable, how often do people buy more expensive turntables? I didn't realize there was a market for turntables costing 6k and it seems crazy that people are spending more. Is the quality of sound truly that much better?
Thanks for your comment. You would be amazed at how much people are willing to spend. Linn has a turntable that looks much like another of theirs and it costs 60,000EUR. HiFi is like cars, you can spend as little or as much as you like / can afford.
Hifi fanatic and avid consumer of hifi opinions since 1975 here. Hi. Varied vinyl journey? but ended up lucky enough to own a Michell (G)Orbe, SME V with Dynavector XX2 Mk2, Loved it but when I realised the hassle of screwing the clamp on made me lean towards Spotify I knew something was up. Sold it all, and bought a P10 with Apheta 3. Gamechanger. P10 gives life to the music in the way seeing a pub band live does. the fact that, the record you put on that makes you think that... ...is your 60's pressing of a Beethoven concerto. Is an added wrinkle. Never heard a Goldmund Studio or a Naiiad, but I own a P10. Close enough. Yours, (What Hifi reader since 1975)
Very interesting and informative. Some of the other turntable viewpoints in the comments are as expected. May I add, if anyone happens to look at the name of my channel or, at what I do to my Rega turntables, please read the "about" section of my channel before you leave a negative comment as I've heard it all before. Happy listening to all.
Here's something interesting. I tried your wine glass experiment on a lightweight Ikea Kallax unit (the top of which has a 'honeycomb' construction) and the water vibrated less than what you encountered.
I do understand your choice and fascination for the P10. Still I find it a bit unfair to compare the Linn LP12 with an nice little sportscar from the sixties, even with some improvements. The current LP12s have almost nothing to do with their ancestors except maybe the dust cover. After my first CD excitement faded, I bought a Rega RP3, according to my then budget. I was very happy while listening to it at the dealers studio and made the purchase. Before I left, the dealer played me the same piece of music on an LP12. I could not believe that the same speakers were able to reproduce such a much better sound impression. I kept that in mind and bought an LP12 several years later. I still have, but with some significant improvements over the years. Coming back to your P10, I am convinced that it is one of the best turntables money can buy today. I suppose it would have been interesting not only for you, to compare the wonderful P10 with the current top LP12 instead of the P8.
Thanks for your very interesting comment. I totally get your point. Mine was more a philosophical / scientific, a re look at solving a problem approach. Of course, one would expect the top of the range LP12’s to perform very well but they are way more expensive. I hope to get a new LP12 in the listening room one day.
Indeed you are. Even on a concrete floor vibrations can be transferred up through the legs of HiFi equipment racks. This is one reason Rega recommends bolting a turntable shelf to the wall.
Speaking as a structural and materials engineer since of yore, I will comment that it isn't "Roy Gandy's Theory", it's basic vibrational analysis, that added mass will contribute to the proliferation of modes. The 3-way tradeoff between the concurrent goals of low mass, high stiffness, and high damping, are ever-present in the mind of the engineer designing a product that should not vibrate. The reason added mass became the default solution for turntables, is that it works better than a poor/cheap product that is light (not for engineering but to save material and transport cost), low stiffness, and low damping. It's a 'brute force, low analysis' upgrade from such basic products to make everything massive (and often extra stiffness comes with that). It's half way to the ultimate solution, but down the wrong road. In the same way that one can't discover email by making postcards better and better, one also can't discover the ultimate turntable by making them more and more massive. cheers
With the P10, they made the plinth lightweight, but everything else heavy? I’m so curious why they pushed so hard to make things light, and then added a bunch of weight to it.
Hi, not so sure about that. The pick-up arm is incredibly light, I am told. The turntable is calculated to have just the right amount for momentum etc. Interesting point though! Maybe someone from Rega will comment?
Nicely told story about Rega turntable philosophy and their never ending quest for affordable quality at all levels. Many thanks.
Thank you. Very kind
Rega makes a wonderful turntable in just about every budget range. The P8 and P10 are unique looking, but there is no doubt that they sound amazing.
yes ,all others were really bad, one would pay 300 dollars for the turntable it self ,than the plinth ,the arm , the engine and the cartridge with a stylus,this in 1979, not bits of plastic with a mdf table and a engine nothing else inside wich is strange normally was more complex to get a worst sound
Harley: You are an exceptional teacher, and have a way with words. I’m no more than a novice, and these sophisticated concepts are now fully understood. Thank you, kindly.
You’re very welcome. I am glad you enjoy and appreciate them.
Currently own the Rega Planar 6 with Ania MC cartridge. Love it! I’ve been using Rega Turntables since the 80’s starting with the P3. When I traded in the Planar 3 in 2020, it was still running great 35 years later! The P6 is even better and my end game turntable. The book on Rega - titled: “A Vibration Measuring Machine”, is a fascinating read for anyone interested in the story of Rega. Deep respect for their engineering approach. When people refer to Roy as a great turntable designer, he corrects them, stating that he is a mechanical engineer.
but ddoesn´t know what direct drive is or a mechanical system to change speed instead of soiling it everytime you chjange speed makinìt be uncurate in speed the older people wanted a stroboscope ,what the hell did they knew about thjat music was only good after the year 2000,strangelly most of the guitars used are from the 50´s to the 60´s as their amplifiers and speakers
You sold more REGA turntables here than any promo video they ever made.
Superb
Thank you. I thought I was just telling a story of its design and creation but it seems that many people found the video interesting.
The tecnicalities around developing/producing a high quality standard turntable are really amazing! Thanks for the lessons ;-) !
My pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it
you only learn that a bad turntable is good for you ,a 100€ technics in early 90´s would sound 1000x better, this is undeveloping and unlearning for very high prices ,in my time that was called a steal or a robbery or i would prefer burglery
I listened to the Rega p10 , p 8 and Technics 1200G I like the Technics sound Better
@@RUfromthe40s agree
@@chichanleon123 , with same cell ?
It’s the best turntable review I’ve ever seen. I’m 100% digital guy but now I want Rega turntable.
Thank, your comment is much appreciated.
exactly, same story here 😀
I was 100 percent digital cause I had a rega p3. Now I have the P10 and I listen almost exclusively to vinyl. It’s incredible
@@mikechivy strange how analogue can grab you.
Great video and easy to understand explanation of Rega’s quest to dissipate vibration with low mass. Looking forward to part 3.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it
thanks for the lesson. Always satisfying to listen to your arguments.
My pleasure!
Fine appraisal. Bought my P10 back in August 2020 and the best decision, no question about it.
Thanks
I've got the rp8, fantastic turntable. I imagine the P10 goes so much further. Rega really offers great value, which I feel Linn doesn't anymore. as a plus setting up the Rega is a dream
I disagree with the value for money bit due to the exceptional quality, service and design of the Linn. I can’t imagine needing another turntable in my lifetime and it will be passed down to my children as an heirloom item. Trouble is I’ve 3 sons so 2 of them will have to make do with my Systemdek IIX 900 and my See Revolver/Ittok. They can burn my Pink Triangle as I would not want to burden any of them with that.
Thanks Matthias. At the end of the day, I think what really matters is if one can identify with the design approach and the cost. As long as the solution is good quality and can be handed down to the next generation and not thrown on the rubbish tip, that’s ok with me. + it has to sound good to!
you disagree with the value for money of the RP8? because you own a Linn? wait.... have you even heard an RP8? are you just trolling someones comments? poor form @@tonyjedioftheforest1364
Thank you for one one of the best explanations of the fabrication of a turntable that is also a piece of art.
You're very welcome!
I'm a Rega fan in any case, and didn't need convincing, but doing the kitchen experiment? Inspired and now doubly convinced! I have set my self the target of a P10 in 2023... it shall be mine.. oh yes... it shall be mine... They ought to give Roy a Knighthood, IMHO.
You won't be disappointed, bought mine eighteen months ago a serious bit of kit.
@@renyardfox8227 how much is one with power supply etc
@@mudachuka12345 Best shop around, they have gone up since l bought mine. Analogue Seduction have them at a shade under four grand that's without the cartridge.
@@renyardfox8227 yep, that seems to be the going rate for one in the UK. The PSU’s are matched at the factory so it comes in the box, you can’t get one without. But second hand /trade ins do come up on eBay from time to time.
Hi Paul, I am surprised they haven’t given Paul Gandy one already. Maybe he needs to score a few runs for England cricket team first? 😀
As an LP12 owner I loved your analogy to your MG and think you're probably spot on, even though I feel no need to upgrade. At some point you pay your money and make your choice and just get on down the road. At least I do--- but I'm not trying to demo speakers in a showroom. Nice video and if I'm ever in the market again I'll consider the P10.
Absolutely. I am sure if I had already owned an LP12, I would not have purchased the P10. It was only because in our listening room, we were starting from scratch, that I applied the logic I did. Enjoy your LP12! 😀
@@PearlAcoustics And I should add--I'd consider your speakers! But, like my LP12 I'm pretty happy with my DeVores! Still, I truly enjoy these vids. Happy Christmas and thanks!
@@DismasM thank you Joe. A very happy Christmas to you too!
I don’t think the MG car analogy works. A Porsche 911 has gone through many revisions and remains one of the greatest sport cars on earth when compared to anything else new. The LP12 is the same.
Great discussion and demonstration. I know the "high mass" school of thought puts most of the mass in some form of suspension (springs, etc), which I guess is one way to reduce the vibration at the stylus. Of course, this tends to also require a higher degree of "tweaking" to ensure proper level, tension, etc.
I really appreciate the relative simplicity of Rega's approach - more of a "set it and forget it" implementation, which I like. I have friends with high mass turntable setups, which sound fantastic - when they are in perfect adjustment. However, they seem to constantly be tweaking and adjusting them. Meanwhile, I thoroughly enjoy listening to my P6/Ania, which I have not touched since initial setup 3 years ago, and it still sounds phenomenal.
I can understand the aesthetic appeal of a massive platter/tonearm assembly floating on a delicate (but finicky) suspension within a massive superstructure, but I'd personally prefer to set my turntable up once and pretty much leave it as is.
Although polarizing, I find Rega's minimalist sculptural design to be quite beautiful, and I also appreciate the level of engineering sophistication required to achieve the resulting performance. I find it humorous to read people characterizing the new tables as "flimsy packing foam" or other fairly ignorant slights.
The P10 is high on my list, and after seeing how much maintenance my friends must put into their high mass tables (for no noticeable difference in sound quality to my ears), I am sold on the Rega school of thought.
Thanks for your very kind words. And thanks too, for adding your thoughts to the debate. They are very welcome
I have really enjoyed this video/podcast. It was instructive and illuminating in some ways. Now I have a bigger respect for Rega!
Thank you for your very kind remarks
I once had a mk2 240 jaguar 2.4 in red, it was 1998, I remember chased my friend home from wales in his Italian super car and was amazed as I put it in overdrive and it eventually, slowly crept up to 100mph, wowee! I never saw the friend as he was away up the road, but was amazed how this 1968 2.4 got me up to 105 on the m56, this in the days before the proliferation of speed cameras, then I started to get a strong smell of burning diff oil , mmmm, time to take it back to a more steady 70….at this time I was running a hifi shop in east Cheshire, a shop that no longer exists. The jaguar ended up sold and exported to New Zealand and with it I was able to buy my home. My first turntable was a Rega P3. I used to call it the Rega Planar 3, Many thanks for your perspective I’ve enjoyed these videos.
Nice story! Thanks for sharing. And thanks for your kind appreciation!
part of my enjoyment, I have to admit, was seeing how the basic design philosophy adapted in the industry leading rega design, and explained so coherently in this video, was also utilized somewhat in my own turntable, although the design objectives differ when it comes to cost and the plinth suspension, since rega would never incorporate a hanging spring acoustic isolation design such as my more cost constrained Michell gyro does. But the basic design understandings are solid, and I often use them to analyze whatever new product I might come across in reports.
since I live in an area famous for aero space machine work, I disagree about special locations for precision machining, but do agree that there is such a thing as institutional knowledge, gained when one concentrates on building one type of product to an exceptional standard over time.
Although the reduced cost of my demo Michell gyro turntable greatly influenced my buying decision, I did go for a new Michell arm, which, like so many others , is simply a tastefully modified Rega arm. Why reinvent the wheel , when there is no need .
Since human hearing is so subjective, I think a lot of the value perceived in the ultra expensive audio stuff is just desire and ego gratification. since hearing , and Hi Fi itself, is all a process of illusion, at some point one has to question the need for a whole battle ship of a playback system, since fun shouldn't really be that demanding. Of course, if you want to be a Hi Fi nut, live it up, I have always adapted a position of being solidly pro fun, and that record is unchanged to this day, and unblemished.
Richard, the human ear is the best and final arbiter of sound quality. At what level we become satisfied is the prerogative of each individual. The quest of trying to match a 'battle ship playback system' with polystyrene float money is both rewarding and great fun. The joy of this hobby is that excellent sound can be achieved affordably through time and effort. There is, however, nothing wrong with those who cannot afford either the time or effort but have the resources to leapfrog to high quality instantly. I understand and appreciate your approach and sentiments, but just wish to add that us 'hi-fi nuts' can both avoid spending mega money and thoroughly enjoy the journey.
Thanks for your comment. I see HiFi as one of either two things: a necessary tool to do my work or a fun way to spend my time acquiring equipment and learning about design and history. And of course ( in both cases - listening to music). However, just like some want to spend money in cars or watches or antiques, others choose HiFi. Adjusting budget to suit. there’s a place for all. Enjoy!
Thank your for these videos. Hope you make many more as long as it interests you to do so. I own the P10 and spent the past summer listening to much higher priced turntables and of course, all were greater mass. I never got the sense that these tables delivered the music in a better way than the Rega. It was an enlightening experience.
Thank you for your kind words and interesting comment
I'm finally watching the complete "trilogy", carefully, from top to bottom. Like I said before: fascinating. 😊🔝
Thanks!
I wholeheartedly agree with your analogy of a honed version of an old design versus a modern clean sheet one. I was also of the opinion that I was future proofing myself by going for the P10 - each element being designed without having to conform to previous ideas of what a turntable should look like (some having more effort put into the finish that it becomes a piece of furniture!) The Tan cast foam, the EBLT belts, that wonderful RB3000 tonearm which is so free of play with no VTA adjustment being a further example of how that analyse every factor and the ceramic platter for as dead a material as possible.
And to cap it all it's not second mortgage money so it's not priced out of the market like some esoterica (SME, TechDas, Kronos, Kuzma, etc.)
Thank you for your contribution to this discussion
I started with a P8/Apheta3 and had the opportunity to compare to a P10/Apheta3 through my Class A electronics and Revel Salon2 speakers. There was a noticeable and meaningful improvement in sound staging and lower noise floor. I upgraded without giving it a second thought.
Thanks for sharing! Glad I was not the only one to notice!
The Rega P10 is a fabulous turntable !
I listened to it during several afternoons, in our portuguese importer, which is also the importer of fabulous, very High-End, ClearAudio turntables ...
I listened also the ClearAudio Innovation, which cost 2,5 times more than the P10, with the SAME cell, same records....
The Clearaudio Innovation, that looks, amazing, BEAUTIFUL, was very slightly, better, a very small margin ....
So, this is a great compliment to Rega P10 ....
Thanks for the background info. Very interesting
Roy Gandy is a really amazing person I have met him a few times over the years. He listens to what you say in a conversation and responds wonderfully and with great humility. I am intrigued to hear the P10 in full cry! I remember starting off with a Planar 3 as my first turntable and it was good as a very honest well engineered record player.
Indeed, humility is a very good adjective for him.
ebay have the Rega P10 for £3000 or more depending on the cartridge, which is even more affordable than brand new, many are less than a year old. Part 3 eagerly awaited.
As a former MGA owner, I agree! If you used a similar argument people who are fanatical about digital over analog and solid state over tubes. Thanks my friend!
Your very welcome
Superb review of the P10. Many years ago 1990 Rega did a demonstration Evening at the Cornflake Shop and I was impressed by what I heard Rega Plannar 2 and 3 . When it came to questions , I asked him if he ever considered making an even better turntable and take on the LP12 , he seemed surprised by the question and said he was best just concentrating on what Rega did best . I pressed the question " I know you could do it. I think its a shame that people will " upgrade" from a Rega Plannar 3 to a Sondek ( Hifi magazine folklore) " . He laughed and said " Who knows one day " Now I'm not saying the P10 is down to me but he must have asked that same question many times .
Indeed… an Engineer always need a strong motivator. Maybe you gave it to him?! 😉
@@PearlAcoustics if that's true, I want a P10 for acknowledgement 🤣 I kid you not its a true story . At that time I just bought a Roksan Xerses which was a superb deck . If only that power supply stayed reliable. Anyway I'm happy with my Technics 1500c which actually reminds me of the Roksan .
Hence the birth of the P9.
@@nasdkhan254was it an original Roksan Xerses; wood engulfed electronics?🤷🏻♂️🙈🙈
I still the original Xerses which I still love, but no on my third different type of PSU.
I was able to audition both the P8 and P10 in my home, with my own equipment, and you’re right, there was no contest between the two. I normally prefer vintage looking equipment, but on this case the engineering, sound, and design won out. I’ve been a happy P10 owner ever since. Thank you for another thoughtful and informative video.
That’s so interesting John. So I am not the only one?
Can you describe the difference in sound between the p8 and p10? As I now have the p8 and wondered if it's worth upgrading
@@KM-wl1tp The P10 sounded more refined in the top end. I listen to a lot of Jazz, and there was more sparkle with the ride cymbal on the P10. The bass also sounded tighter with the P10, although the difference wasn’t as obvious as it was with the top end. The P10 tonearm is so incredibly light, that it made the P8 tonearm feel heavy by comparison. I also preferred the P10 power supply, specifically the separate 33rpm and 45rpm switches. I hope that helps.
@John LaMarca thankyou. I think I will get the P10 next year. But will keep the p8 for a while also, then sell later. Your comments on the sound difference have echoed other ppl I have spoken to.
@@KM-wl1tp oh my, that’s difficult. Alm I can say was there was more detail. And it seemed more musical but this comment sounds ridiculous, on reading it back. The difference was noticeable but selling an 8 for a 10 is a big step. You really would need to do a side by side comparison and be willing to spend a lot of money for what is, essentially a small but noticeable difference.
Hello Harley, your insights sure takes the guess work out of buying the Rega P10. Also the fav light you have cast on Mr Gandy makes Rega a technically and musically sound buy ! I very much look forward to Part 3.
Thank you, very kind. Pt3. Will be in January
Every Linn Sondek can be upgraded to the latest specifications. Dealers will also give a part exchange deal on your old Sondek for a more recent one.
I did that in 1990 for my 1980 deck but still had to wait a week for them to set up and fully test before I took it. Upgrading my first Sondek would have taken longer.
In 2022 I took some of the possible upgrades, but there was no limit to what I could have chosen to do.
For the money of the 2022 upgrade and replace the cartridge the 32 year old Sondek I could not have got a new Rega P10 but could have nearly paid for a p8 with cartridge.
At this level you are not going to be disappoint which ever route you end up taking.
Thanks for your interesting comment and fir your contribution to the topic.
Another great vid and I agree the Rega is a very good sub £4k turntable (without cartridge). However, I think you'll find other manufacturers such as SME, Clearaudio, Kuzma, Thorens and Avid to name just a few put as much effort in their designs and engineering philosophy as Rega does and they also produce fantastic turntables. Love the car.
Thank you. Very kind. You’re absolutely right. About other designers… I only chose Rega because their approach seemed to be both challenging and yet aligned with mine. I.E. simplicity, remove whatever does not make it work better. And try and make it at a realistic, sustainable price. Without getting greedy.
I was also thinking all the way through this talk that surely other manufacturers also put a similar amount of effort into finding solutions to these problems. However, maybe the genius of Rega's approach is seeking and finding efficient solutions that produce products that are more affordable?
@@mgsee absolutely. I suspect that too many manufacturers simply rely on past successes and do not invest in sonic improvements rather than production efficiency improvements and look and feel improvements
Such an excellent presentation and analysis of the main variables. Great insight. I genuinely think the de-mystifying of the art of great turntable engineering is vital to the progress of its availability to the masses. Rega team defy all the odds to bring ridiculous listening pleasure to those on a modest income. I reckon I've spent less than £1.25k on my RP3 and its upgrades and I don't think I'll ever sell it on. Thanks for making such cohesive and coherent videos.
Thank you Stevie. you're very welcome. I am glad you appreciate them.
A fascinating and inspirational story - explained clearly and succinctly with real enthusiasm. Thankyou.
Thank you Bob. Very kind
Wonderfull Video, for all the reasons you mentioned is why I chose to get a Rega P3!
Mass = Money, turntables built on mass are just unaffordable, I like my hifi regardless of sound to look understated!
Thank you 🙏
Your English, sound like best high end sistem, sir! Thank you.
😀🙏
YES! The Midget is just a perfect car. So much fun driving it.
😀👍
Great company & products. I’ve had some of their kit that is almost 40 years old and it’s still going strong 👏👏👏
I am bemused by the fact that people are still trying to extract perfect sound from an LP in the 21st century. The source material is either and analogue tape or a digital file. Why not just go to the source material for perfection i.e. the master copy? The only reason to be interested in vinyl today is because vinyl masters differ enormously from CD masters in the dynamic range and dynamic compression. In the early days of CDs there were no differences but then someone realized that you could make CD masters louder than vinyl masters. 16 bit CD digital music will always be better than that from an LP because of S/N issues and accurate decription by most players and certainly through EAC ripping of the WAV files. The fact that most analogue people do not understand that a digital representation of an analogue signal does not aprpoximate anything up to the Nyquist frequency is moot because they do not understand the physics and don't appreciate that all you need to reproduce an analogue signal is the frequency (wavelength) and the amplitude. This is what is attained through sampling. You do not lose precision the higher you increase the sample rate. Just get a proper life and find proper sources for your music in the digital realm. Jethro Tull releases by Steve Wilson would be a good start. I speak as someone who owned a Sugden A21 on the 70s and actually did physics. Don'y be ostriches.
Hi thanks for your comment and contribution to the topic. I think it’s very important to appreciate that many people gain enormous enjoyment from collecting and playing vinyl. I think it has everything to do with the tactile aspects and the fact that it can sound ‘nice’. Especially when a vinyl is mastered for vinyl. Us humans are not logical people, I think in all our lives we can all find areas where decisions are made on emotional rather than scientific reasons. Enjoy the music. I hope you enjoyed the series, none the less?
One word. The “ visceral” effect. There are thousands of people who can afford a 2024 Bugatti Chiron but chose to invest in classics from the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s. The newer car would walk the older ones in every measurable criteria and the investor could give a flying rats @zz. 😎👍
@@motuknight5569 Perfect comparison! Friends are blown away when they drive my classic 911. There's more to driving a sports car than just how quick or fast it is, just as there is more to music equipment and formats than just what can most accurately reproduce a live performance.
I approve this message….That’s why I mostly purchase vinyl from yesteryear…most are recorded in stereo….but,even then it depends on how it’s been recorded (mastered)😂😂😂😂😂
Mr werdnarot… We are forgetting the one thing that almost no digital music source (with perhaps the exception of box sets) has…The album jacket. To me, being able to see the artwork and photography and read the background of the recording, the “liner notes” often contributed by some interesting third-party, and most important to me, the personnel on the LP…who engineered and produced it, where/when ea. track was recorded, and of course the musicians and singers involved. We can get some of this information today via the Internet, but certainly not all of it. And there was something very satisfying about studying the album jacket while watching the LP spin and of course listening to the tracks. The tactile nature of all of this is lost in digital music and that fact has pushed the entire listening experience from something you/we focused upon..either individually or a group of 3-4 friends sitting around focused on the music ( or comedy/other audio performance )… and a background layer that no one is paying attention to. The loss of the album jacket changed the music industry for the much worse IMO.
Very nice review - Like you, I have very fond memories concerning the MG Midget. A week before my best friend was deployed to Vietnam, he borrowed his mother's MG Midget (it was also red). We went out and misbehaved. The fun part with the MG was the fact that it was so low, the doors would not open when parked next to a sidewalk with high curbs. To get out of the car, I spent the day rolling out of the MG onto the sidewalk. All the best, Paul
Lovely story, thanks! And thanks for your appreciation
Very good video !! 👍👍
And your english is perfect !!
I bougt the Rega P9 (rb 900) in 1997... It was a fantastic turntable !!
Now I will perhaps buy the new Rega Naia because i agree with the approach Rega engineering....
Best regards from France 🇫🇷
Thanks a lot!
Thank you for a really intelligent video
Thank you. You’re very welcome
The 10 is a fine table easy to set up wonderful to listen to with the right isolation equipment it can keep up tables that cost three times as much
True, the set up is way easier than many of the turntables from yesteryear, and from today too, I imagine.
Harley what a great discussion. I’ve never heard it done better when it comes to turntables. I have a P6 and I was drawn to it for the external power source. I love it and use it almost every day. I was fascinated by Rega as a company going against the grain with less mass for vibration control. Got to admire engineers who see things differently and pursue perfection like that. I’m glad to see you’re a car enthusiast as well. I have a Porsche 911 and its the same forward thinking and engineering that draws me to Porsche. I can’t wait to hear your thoughts in Part 3.
Thank you. You’re very kind. Lovely to read your comment
Loved this video and you put across a very compelling argument. I myself was in the market for a turntable upgrade around the £5K area. I already had had a Pink Triangle and a Rega P3 in the past but preferred the Linn but being impatient if something was going to take more than a couple of months on the waiting list then I looked elsewhere. The technology was very appealing in the P10 but so was the technology and build quality in the Linn. To me it’s like comparing a Stradivarius to a modern carbon fibre violin or a classic 1960’s Strat to a soul less modern one.
I pondered for almost 2 years, my head saying Rega but my heart said Linn. If I had gone for the Rega I would have always thought should I have got the Linn. In fact that thought has been in my head for more than 40 years. Whenever I heard the LP12 I thought I should have bought one. I am a very similar age to you so for my landmark birthday I have ordered a 2022 Linn LP12, it’s coming tomorrow and I am so excited. Just hope the snow doesn’t get worse delaying the installation!
Well, after all we are only humans. And my experience always confirms the same thing. If logic is telling me one thing but my heart isn’t in it, then go with one’s heart. Because it’s passion that makes life worth living.
@@PearlAcoustics what a brilliant statement. Less than an hour to wait now so I am getting very excited!
My local Audio T have both the LP 12 and P10 in stock. Guess what I'll be doing in January!
@@mike_lowndes it’s got to be the Linn. I am sat here listening to Neil Diamonds Hot August Night for the 5th time today while typing this. As my son says Neil is actually in the room with us. Can’t believe I have waited more than 40 years to get one. All the hype had put me off in the past but by god I can now say the hype is spot on. It’s the most amazing thing I have ever bought.
@@mike_lowndes 😊👍
Analog has always been better then digital! 😂😂😂 Great video as usual.
Thanks! 👍
thank you for this interesting video…. I continue to be intrigued with Rega, the company and products. Be well!
Thank you!
I discovered this channel quite by accident. Thoroughly enjoyable and educational. I am an audiophile in much the same way that a brick isn't. I am, though, baffled by the fact that Rega has left the "closed cell" foam core open on the edges and wonder how changes in humidity might affect the density of the core and ergo the sound of the turntable.
Hi Doug. I think you can rest assured that because if the type of foam and that it is closed cell. That humidity will have absolutely no impact on it. It is not spongelike. - I hope! 😀
This video is brilliant. Have not learned so much from a video in a long while.
Thank you. You're very kind
Very interesting and in depth analysis of the turntable, I am looking forward to part 3.
It’s always a pleasure watching your videos. Thank you
Thank you. You’re very kind
I still have a technics SL-1200, 11 or 12 lb. Platter that will spin up to speed in 1/2 turn. That was a feature DJ’s for radio liked. Set the arm on the record an spin manually till it registers sound and backup 1/2 turn. When ready turn it on.
I liked the fact that besides the platter is heavy, the case and cover are heavy. The legs are isolated from the rest. You can have the house shaking, it won’t feedback into the case, platter, and arm. The direct drive motor has no hum or buzz, very quite. The center bearing is extremely quite, even in low passages in the music. Still use it.
Nice!
In reality the linn suspension was for AC motor noise reduction towards the main bearing. As time when on, reducing motor noise entering the bearing has pinnacled to its present top DC motor main bearing set up. OH yes, a properly tunes linn suspension does help with acoustic feedback entering the LP but it is motor isolation at its best. That vital union between the platter, spindle, bearing and sub-chassis is now the strongest they have ever achieved. Also the keel is very light and rigid and can be a turntable on its own. Add 3 feet and an external motor. Radikal is the highest performance motor control and power supply available for the Sondek LP12 turntable and comes complete with a brushed DC motor that replaces the standard LP12 AC motor. Radikal also powers the Urika 1 and 2 internal phono stage for the LP12, where fitted.
Radikal brings together several breakthrough technologies that enable a completely new and innovative approach to motor control in the LP12, significantly improving its performance. To ensure perfect timing, Radikal’s speed management system auto-calibrates the motor every time the Sondek LP12 is powered on.
With radically reduced electromagnetic noise levels, the precious-metal brushed DC motor delivers a huge improvement in signal-to-noise ratio, getting you even closer to the music.
Due to the unique design of both Radikal and the Urika phono stage, Radikal can be used on its own simply to power and control the motor, or in tandem with Urika, for a doubly impressive upgrade.
I’m a fan of Rega turntables…Own the p25 and the rp8 excellent sounding turntables…They’re so good if we’re having guests and I’m demonstrating my system to the guys….Everyone would stop and start dancing….🤣🤣🤣🤣
Rega are just that good….Now, I have my eyes set on the up and coming NAIA…I hope too have one😂👍
Thanks for your comment
I never would have thought that somethig so superficially simple could be in fact so coplex
I guess it mirrots the real world out there
That’s indeed very true. Although my mother always said that we make things as complex as we want them to be! Thanks for your comment
A big thumbs up for the for the folks from Philadelphia who traveled to the listening room. I'm envious 🙂
Hi Frank! We also have listening rooms in Toronto, New York, London snd Budapest, apart from Brussels. Not all the same but similar…
@@PearlAcoustics Good to know. Thanks. I always enjoy your videos.
If you drive an old car it is absolutely the same experience to me. You exactly know - me as a mechnkcal engineer - what goes on from carburator to the drive shaft, from the steering wheel to the rack and pinion, from the butt to the tire. As you grow familiar with the car you learn to listen to it and truely identify any disturbing noise in the gear box, the motor, the suspension. You can immediately hear when it is time for an oil change, when your drive shafts or knuckles need some love. It becomes part of you. In opposite a 991-2 is driving perfect, gives you the experience of perfection but you can not get in touch with it because the suspension is digitally controlled, the connection from drive pedal to throttle body is cut mechanically, there is no direct connection from steering wheel to front hub and so on. If there is a failure you have no idea what is wrong and you may respect but never really love this car.
Good analogy
Another superb video Harley. I really like your calm, thoughtful and methodical approach, and the pacing of your comments interspersed with great visuals. Loved the wine glass demonstration too. Can't wait for Part 3, but Yes is the answer!
Thanks you are really very kind
@@jumpingwhale thanks!
Great video, but no one talks about vibrations coming thru the air from speaker low frequency waves. The tone arm is extremely important it should be tuned to a few hertz
Thanks! Indeed good point. The results can vary enormously. I forgot to mention ruin that I had carried out some simple low frequency feedback tests, and both turntables performed very well indeed.
I bought a Rega P6 7 years ago and absolutely hated it. Sold it and bought a a Roksan. I’ve been delighted since the first record I played on it.
Indeed, turntables are such a personal choice. It’s the one piece of kit we very closely interact with
May I ask which phono stage do you pair with P10?
Yes, indeed. The Rega Aria
What a terrific video, Harley. I thought that if I ever upgrade from my Clearaudio Concept, I would probably go for the Rega P6. So fascinating to hear about the amazing engineering behind Rega's products. Thanks.
Thank you. Very kind.
Buy the Rega, but don't buy expensive power cords and interconnects. They are a scam.
Every Rega suffers from the same design fault. All the noisy elements, i.e. motor and bearing fix directly to the plinth that the tonearm also sits on. Origin Live have a better design, the motor is separate and sits on its own, only fixed to the platter by the belt. The tonearm is decoupled from the bearing. This prevents noise from the motor or bearing finding its way to the cartridge. On top of all that the Origin Live looks fantastic. Thank you for taking the time to make this video.
You’re welcome
Isn't the cartridge on the record? Where is the bearing? On the same table?
@@rabarebra I’m sorry I don’t understand your question.
@@rongreen1538 Read again. If you separate platter from the tonearm, they are separated, but when the tonearm and stylus is in touch with the record (LP) - there is contact from this separation. Now, read this ten times, and you will understand.
@@rabarebra Thank you for your kind words.
Sounds like a paid ad for Rega. My first visit to your channel, and this is my first impression. I could be wrong. I will subscribe and stay tuned and determine if this is par for the course or if this is just that special of a turntable. Just an FYI after your presentation I will likely purchase a P10. I have always been a large mass guy but this all makes sense. Again I will wait a while and see what I see. Either way thank you for the interesting video series and presentation. Cheers from Italy 🇮🇹
@PearlAcoustics Is it really this good? If it is I might have to pick one up.
Hi thank you for your kind comment. Please let me reassure you 100% that I do these videos totally out of interest for the topic. No one pays me and I do not even monetise them. Welcome to the channel
@@PearlAcoustics your passion and knowledge is amazing. I hope I didn’t offend but the way things are with reviews both in print and on CZcams I was skeptical. I’m going to buy one for sure based on your recommendation. I currently have a few turntables that either cost more or are similar in price. I will buy it and report back. All things being said all of my TT’s are large and heavy or very large and heavy platter styles. Your explanation makes a lot of sense. If Rega explained the science as well as you have more people would make the switch. Thanks again for the input.
@@Puroplatino thank you! Absolutely no offence taken. I totally understand. I would be very interested to hear your feed back nice you have it.
7:40 "..my wife's kitchen.." truly a different generation :D
Indeed 😂 but it’s not quite how it seems…. My wife’s hobby / passion is cooking. Mine is music and writing. So she has ‘her’ kitchen where what she wants goes and I have my office and listening room. It’s a very good arrangement. She cooks and I am aloud to wash up and clear things away, exactly how she wants it, when the meal’s finished.
@@PearlAcoustics yes, I wonder if that beautiful resonant table doesn't cost more than Rega P10.. :) Good listen! Inspiring to see that you appreciate Rega, even though you obviously don't share Roy's view on speakers not having to be a beautiful furniture :)
Fabulous video ! . I've always admired REGA for their constant fight to improve their products, even though it must be so difficult with such a fine margin. I don't own a turntable at this present time, but this video has sure got me thinking about a REGA, and my late uncles record collection (2000 LP's) that maybe I should give a spin.
Thank you. 2000LP’s, wow - if you liked his taste, then what are you waiting for? 😀
@@PearlAcoustics well he was my main influence in music, and there sure are a lot of classics in his collection. There is even a copy of dsotm pink Floyd with the solid blue triangle and poster and stickers intact.
I don't know too much about music reproduction to be honest, the philosophy for cars is the smaller and lighter the car the more feel you get in terms of the mechanics so it seems like Rega is taking that same concept to turntables. The weight is good for getting rid of jumpiness however it's nice to see Rega solving the problem mechanically.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned the five part CZcams video series put out by Michael Fremer titled “Analog Planet Visits Rega Research” from 2017. It complements this video nicely.
Thanks!
Great efforts and research to try enhancing a physical / analog / old technology that had a huge impact on music accessibility. If people are willing to pay that kind of money for a well engineered mechanical device, that's their business! This will give you a certain type of sound, great if you like it! In my case, i sold my Linn Sondek LP12 along with all my vinyls (i had 20 000 of them!) and i have absolutely no regret. I liked it while i had it, but the current less expensive hardware i have now sounds better (to me!). I have now Ayre QB-9 / Hypex Nilai 500 DIY Stereo and Preamp / Ryan R610, before i had Krell KSA-100s / KRC-3 / Linn Sondek LP12 / Dunlavy SC-IV. Sold my previous kit for good money, i loved it.
I want to be closer as possible to the original recording, and it's not an analog "direct engraving" that will bring you that (but it brings you a certain type of sound!). Simply out of competition for fidelity compared to rightly done digital. Same apply with tube amps that adds high level of harmonic distortion to the signal. But you're right, they look awesome and some people like this added distortion ("it sounds rich" ).
I'm not questioning people preferences for the vinyl or tube type of sound or the "art and glamour" surrounding the vinyl comeback, i'm just find it poetic and more of a taste of the past, as you just spoke about your old car: That's perfect for those who are into this, it's still available! I'm glad to see people preferring this "arty" form of sound reproduction being able to get what they want, just like this very good Rega P10 piece of solid engineering!
I'm an electrical engineer so for me, i look ahead, and i don't say that with any arrogance. It's our way of thinking, just as you described the engineering process behind the Rega P10. The form of "art" i love is the engineering design (much less poetic, i know!), and i have utter respect for what the Rega team did with their turntable design.
We never had access to such a level of fidelity we have now for such affordable prices! ... and it hurts many so-called "High End" Audio Companies that are struggling to justify high prices, thanks for information and technical data we can get more easily now. Engineering is a continuous process and we can come with better results as we use methods, knowledge and evolution of electronics in general. Just think about the new GaN transistors as an example or the more computing power we have + evolution of transistor density chip design, paving the way to advanced DSP and much more. More sophisticated test and measurement methods / test sets. Research done on human hearing and perception, etc. Not to mention aesthetic and materials and better manufacturing capability, higher level of constant quality and monitoring.
This is the same in the digital world, just think about the Chord DAVE DAC that gets worked out pretty well by current much lower priced DACs! Technology is evolving, sometimes rapidly, and the ones that are not able to follow must find a way / a market to sell their stuff.
Just try an SMSL SU-1 DAC, currently unbeatable for under 100$ !! But don't make the mistake of thinking that every recording will sound great, there are unfortunately tons of records with low level sound quality, be it on vinyl or digital... The current pitiful "loudness war" is the antithesis of sound quality and naturalness. Companies that do that don't respect music at all, they fall into mediocrity...
I use a set of tracks to test sound systems and part of that are recordings from Patricia Barber / Diana Krall / Anat Fort / Bob James Trio (to name a few!): These recordings sound marvelous, they were done by very competent and respectful sound engineers! So, happy listening to everybody here and enjoy the pleasure of relaxing with your preferred music / form of art!
Thank you for your comment and contribution to the conversation
Thank you for the very interesting details about the decision to go with the Rega P10. Definitely an excellent turntable. However, the idea of the low mass is not entirely conclusive to me, because it contradicts some findings in building physics. The experiment with the wine glass is impressive in any case. But how would it have turned out if the table top had not been made of heavy granite but of a very light material? A comparison would be very interesting.....
But it doesn't matter, I'm not pursuing the goal of the highest level of hearing perfection. For me it is important that I could get my son interested in vinyl. We celebrate listening to music together. This is priceless. We play our records on an early Thorens TD124/MKII with SME 3009. A turntable that's as old as I am. We're both fascinated by it, and that's wonderful.
That truly is wonderful. The vinyl resurgence is a truly cross generational happening. And I, for one, am happy about it.
I am very happy for anyone that can afford these kind of gear. The price of some of these gear is more expenssive than a car.
Indeed some of it is! However, Rega make turntables from as little as a few hundred pounds. + the secondhand market is a great place to start. Or to build one’s own HiFi. There are so many kits and video tutorials out there. Great sound doesn’t always have to be extremely expensive
@@PearlAcoustics Thank you so much!
Thanks for your usual professional, high quality and well considered presentation. There are two important sources of vibration that you did not mention, but perhaps you intended leaving them to your next episode on how the P10 performs.
The first is resonance introduced into the turntable system from the stylus tracking the groove. Unlike the other sources that you mentioned, stylus resonance cannot be eliminated, only prevented from influencing the signal. When well resolved, the level of clarity, tone and detail from vinyl is astounding and exceeds that of an average digital system. In my opinion, this is what sets turntables apart.
Secondly, feedback from the speakers into the turntable via the air and more specifically the physical elements of the room and equipment supporting structures, affects bass response. Turntables that resolve this aspect well will generate non-resonant, subtle and extended bass that one never thought was possible from vinyl.
Generally speaking, most turntables sound reasonable when playing pop, jazz and small classical works, but medium to large scale works with loads of midrange and treble energy from orchestra (particularly mass violins), choir, soloists etc are another matter. When your turntable is able to reproduce such works perfectly when played loud, without any audible distortion or colouration, then you know you have achieved audio nirvana. Such a turntable will also make previously damaged records sound more acceptable because previous distortion is replaced by distortion free tracking of the damaged groove walls, which, although a copy of the original distortion, is far less irritating. I sincerely hope that the P10 succeeds where most others have failed. Good resonance control will also enable the cartridge to successfully track at up to 40% lower VTF, resulting in longer stylus and groove life.
Thank you for your very interesting addition to the topic. Pt3 will be more generic, but I will take your comment in mind.
Hear you on stylus resonance,
P10 owner here and this can be helped along with a different mat.
I use a Collaro red mat, on the recommendation of my Rega dealer.
Even more effective is an Origin Live Gravity One damping puck.
Not a clamp (not the Rega way) but at 40odd grammes in weight just the right weight to damp stylus based vibrations.
It works really really well, even on a deck like tbe P10.
An explainer for me is that the tancast foam/ ceramic platter/ Rega engineering construction handles the vibration coming UP from the environment, the Origin One damps and eliminates any resonance coming DOWN from the stylus / LP surface interaction.
@@bobannon7799 thanks for your addition to the debate
@@bobannon7799 Yes Bob, mats do help in taming resonance and in somes cases can do an amazingly good job. A couple of years ago I experimented with two LP12s using various mats including the Funk Firm's Achromat while playing a Tracy Chapman record. With the Achromat, both turntables made the recording sound beautiful, but with any other mat, it sounded terrible, also on both turntables - lots of high frequency agitation and some distortion. The differences were startling. I concluded that upper frequency resonance superimposed itself on the primary signal causing, at best, the upper frequencies to be amplified and , at worst, high level distortion.
I think it is for this reason that many users have criticised or dislike the Achromat for dulling the sound. My feeling is that the Achromat just does a good job of removing spurious resonance, but it is possible that it might also influence the primary signal in some way. I did not envestigate this further and have not reached any definite conclusions. I regarded the Achromat as a Band Aid solution, preferring to resolve resonance issues in the turntable itself until the upper midrange and high frequencies were free of agitation, but without sounding truncated.
Some listeners obviously enjoy the upper frequency boost that resonance can provide, feeling a greater sense of resolution and detail. It is, however, false detail and contributes to what I regard as typical hi-fi sound that is impressive, but can never be regarded as having the smoothness combined with unrestrained detail inherent in live performances.
@@bobannon7799 My apologies, I did not see your last two paragraphs. I have no experience of the Origin Live puck and I am pleased it works well for you on the P10. I was surprised to discover that on my turntable, clamps, weights etc over the record made no audible difference other than helping with warped records. Your explainer is very plausible and makes sense. I have not heard a full explanation of exactly why or how the various sources of resonance affect turntable performance. My assumption is that tracking based resonance feeds both down into the turntable via the platter and bearing, up into the cartridge and arm and finally via the arm back into the turntable. I would expect levitating platters and completely isolated arms to solve resonance induced problems, but that does not seem to be the case. My assumption is that resonance needs to be dissipated rapidly, so each isolated component needs to find a good way of doing that. If all components are tightly locked together, there is probably a better chance of introducing dissipation mechanisms. The design choices seem to include resonance isolation, absorption or combinations thereof. Prevention of resonance based tracking does not seem to be possible. I am completely out of my depth here, so would appreciate direction from a knowledgeable engineer.
How about doing a commentary on the best stereo cartridges? Would be enlightening!
Indeed that would be very interesting. But, unfortunately, I have very little knowledge in that field. I would have to start from scratch and get hold of a very wide collection. I think the research alone would be considerable, especially as some cartridges are likely to perform better with certain pickup arms, than others.
Very nice video, what would have been nice to add for you experiment was too prove their approach which you didn’t really by just showing a glass of water on top of an heavy countertop. A way you could have done that is with a high density foam panel/board use for floor. You do the same exercise but now with the glass on a high density foam and show if there’s any difference. I’m also in engineering and usually the typical approach for something like this is to use the benefit of both, what I mean by that is you use an heavy base and you uncouple it using some engineered material (depend of the use case) to a lighter piece of machinery.
Very interesting. The point I was trying to understand was the claim weather mass absorbs vibrations, or not. But I get your point. Thanks.
Thank you Harley for this wonderful explanation of the technology that goes into a very good turntable. I'm also a Formula 1 race car fan so the connection between those high tech cars and a premium piece of audio tech fascinates me to no end. I half expected you to go into the aerodynamics of the Rega P10 at any moment knowing how important that particular dynamic is to a F1 race car. Of course I'm not serious about aerodynamics as they pertain to turntables but hopefully that gives you some idea about what a complete job I think you have done on this video. I so look forward to the third installment on audio tech that is forthcoming. p.s. I too once owned a MG sports car. Mine being the MGB from1971 thus I can really relate to the comparison and/or analogy you used with cars and turntables.
Thanks Richard!
Very interesting. I bought a P10 last year after buying a pointlessly heavy Dr F table and becoming so frustrated with it, Looking fwd to your next episode.
Thank you!
@PearlAcousticsofficial fk'off, scammer.
Now I know that deck! Lovely piece indeed.
It really is! 👍
Sie sind wirklich mit Herzblut dabei und überzeugt! Kein Zweifel, der P10 ist ein großartiger und hervorragender Plattenspieler! Trotzdem ist es meine Meinung, meine Überzeugung: Die Motorachse muss identisch sein mit der Plattentellerachse! Natürlich muss das ein spitzenmäßiger Motor sein! Ich bevorzuge direktgetriebene Player, z. B. Thorens oder mein 1977er WEGA P550.
Thanks for your input on this topic
really enjoyed this, incredibly interesting. Thanks for posting
Thanks Kevin. Very kind!
Wonderful. Cannot wait for more.
Thanks
Regarding the vibration experiment with the massive granite worktop, I think this was fundamentally wrong *(edit:* I dont necessarily disagree with the idea of reducing mass, just with the experiment). The reason why we saw the vibrations probably (if not surely) hide in that this bench probably doesn't sit properly on the floor. I can scientifically explain what happens when three of the four legs rest on the floor, but there's no need for it is something we all met in everyday life. Something like this depending on the circumstances (like the % of the object's mass that lays above the triangle determined by the three legs touching the floor) can result vibrations on the object even with the slightest contact, *and regardless the weight of the object;* it might weigh 1,000 kilos or ten tons and still to present vibrations with the slightest touch. Bottom line: it is essential how an object rests on the ground or wherever..
Thanks for your comment. However I can assure you that all four legs are firmly on the solid slate floor. A seismologist has already explained in an earlier comment how vibrations travel easier through mass, rather than mud.
@@PearlAcoustics And of course the seismologist is correct. But I as a Civil Engineer (structural as well) have a different view of this issue and on what might cause a system to vibrate and how a system vibrates. A Seismologist studies geophysics whereas a Civil Engineer disigns almost every structure you see above and below the Earth's surface. In other words vibrations on structures is vastly more in the field of Civil Engineering than Seismology.
(Edit: considering that this soft cloth the way you use it cant give/transmit any kind of vibration to the bench) I find it difficult if not impossible that by rubbing this massive furnature with a cloth, you're reaching the natural frequency of this object, as it happens when we rub the rim of a glass of wine causingit to vibrate (making sound).
Thus the only logical explanation for the vibrations we all saw in this experiment you permormed, is how this bench rests on the floor.
Thing is that if the center of mass lays right on the hypotenuse of the triangle I mentioned on my previous comment (and in the case of a rectangle with an ~even weight distribution you expect it to lay very close to the hypotenuse), the slightest touch can cause the bench to lose its balance. If the force causing it to lose its balance is periodical, the object thus seems to vibrate, when in reality it just loses and recovers balance.
There can be no other explanation. This is my opinion...
Note at this point that in Civil Engineering we too extensivelly study vibrations. Have a look at the Tacoma Narrows Bridge and you ll surely understand why.
Thank you for making these videos,
I appreciate your reply,
Regards
Got the P10 six months ago. It is my third Rega 'table. Once again it was set up in no time and once again it requires no attention from me whatsoever. Had no idea how noisy my P6 was! I considered an LP12, but the local dealer told me it requires "installation" after they assemble the bucket of bolts that comes from Scotland. I've been into stereo for 40 years and have never needed anyone to set it up for me. I feel weird about a piece of equipment that complicated.
Thanks for your comment
Thank you again for a great video.
I am excited about the chapter 3.
And I ask you,... please, do more videos about the other gear you are going to use in the listening room (digital sources, amp,...)
Thanks. Much appreciated! I will keep going as long as people want to watch, are polite in their comments snd I have the health and time. 😉
Fantastic video, thank you for the time and effort you put into it and your series!
It is extremely difficult, nearly impossible, to compare turntables objectively. And even in the unlikely event of perfect conditions (same speakers, cartridge (synergy?!), source, environment!), you can't "match" personal tastes, of course.
Glad you found your perfect choice, enjoy the astonishing P10! It is definitely on my shortlis of possible future upgrade-paths...
Meanwhile, I've been enjoying my Technics SL1200GR + Ortofon 2M black or AT33PTG/ii for 5 years now, wonderful sounding combinations, in my opinion ❤
By the way: You should maybe consider purchasing the new UHQR Steely Dan - "Aja" release for your showroom. One of the, if not THE best sounding record I have ever heard (and I honestly heard a lot 😊).
All the best,
Michael from Germany
Thanks Michael for your very motivational comment. If you’ve been enjoying your turntable for over 5 years then I don’t think there’s much point in upgrading, you might even regret it! The Technics definitely has its advantages.
Enjoy the music. Best wishes from Belgium
My Dad had a 74’ midget ( yellow) he would let me drive it occasionally..you’re right it was fun
😀
THANKS HARLEY🤗 FOR GOING INTO SUCH GREAT DETAIL TO EXPLAIN 🧐 … WHY REGA GO TO EXTREMES FOR THE PURSUIT OF PERFECTION 😎💚💚💚
You’re very welcome! Thanks for watching
Great episode! Fantastic story. Thanks for doing this.
You’re very welcome
I had a massive piece of industrial granite that is milled to a perfect flat plane. It was so dense as to be inert. I had a Musical Fidelity M1 'table with SME tonearm/ Dynavector Karat 17D3 cartridge on there. Reproducing that experiment with the cloth woukd have, I believe, produced no vibration. I cannot say why your glass was vibrating? That is odd.
Indeed, but that’s exactly why I carried out the test for myself. Geologists tell us that vibrations pass very easily through hard substances, and that when you lower the mass, the energy is absorbed. (I have put this very crudely) I didn’t believe Rega’s reasoning either until I did the experiment and read the book they wrote on the topic. Remember, my granit slab (which weighs, I guess, well over 100kg) has a very slight Dimpled texture, the soft cloth rubbing very gently on it managed to generate enough energy to travel right through it, the glass (if you remember) is sitting on a slight ridge in the granite, so that it could rock, slightly with the smallest impulse.
If I had carried out the same exercise on a piece of rubber, the glass would not have moved, because the rubber would have absorbed the energy created by the cloth, before it reached it.
Another important thing to get rid of in motors is whats known as the "cogging" effect as the armature moves from winding to winding or pole to pole, the more poles the smoother the motor and more consistent the drive speed is maintained - a five pole motor is smoother than a three pole etc etc. im surprised this was not mentioned here.
Hi, thanks for your addition to the discussion. Your point is absolutely true, however, for the last decades I think all manufacturers have designed for this situation, to the extent that the Rega power supply on the P10 only gives out pulses exactly when needed. But it’s a good point you make.
Now I’m dissatisfied with my current Turntable and concerned about what I’m potentially missing 😮
Oh no! Try not to and enjoy the music 😉
The P6 with Exact2 is for me "the best". The improvements over P3 Elys 2 are dramatic.
Great
BTW, I own a modest Rega P1, considering upgrading to the P3, and dreaming of the P10. 😊
😉 only upgrade, if you really feel the need. The P3 is an excellent turntable
I reckon to really top it off, go for the Aura phonostage, the synergy will be immaculate, (I wish someone carried your speakers in Australia btw)
Hi Paul. Thank you for your kind words. I will try and get my hands an Aura phono stage. We do have a customer, or two in Australia. But we only sell direct. Who knows, one day we might have a listening room there?
I really want an Aura. It is fully balanced with XLR outs. Oh, a dream. But it costs an arm and leg, though my bank account has the money, my wife wouldn't be happy.
I have the Aria Mk3, still sounds very good.
@@rabarebra better to have a happy and loving wife, than a piece of HiFi kit that sounds marginally better than another. There is always someone with something sounding better… but family: that’s priceless.
@@rabarebra I also have the Aria, I'm slowly saving for the Aura, hopefully have it mid next year…
@@SidLives I purchased the Aria Mk3 based on its praises from the seller. But found out afterwards the seller actually personally owns a Aura (got it cheap from Rega, of course). And after a few months I said I wasn't satisfied with the Mk3 noisefloor, and he admitted that the Aura is more quiet, but I need to hear it for myself at home to be 100% sure. It is four times the price of the Aria.
The only necessity for Aura as I see it, is if you really need long cabling distances - say in a professional installation. I'm not sure if its private use, unless the sound is hugely improved, because the Aria Mk3 really sounds good - but when you push the gain or listen to records using your headphones - it comes too short to me - too noisy.
Maybe someone with insight can tell us something about the Aura, except for it being fully balanced on its outs.
Edit: I only describe the unit using MC stage. Never had or tried it with a MM, and I'm not interested in the MM's.
If 6,000$ is affordable, how often do people buy more expensive turntables? I didn't realize there was a market for turntables costing 6k and it seems crazy that people are spending more. Is the quality of sound truly that much better?
Thanks for your comment. You would be amazed at how much people are willing to spend. Linn has a turntable that looks much like another of theirs and it costs 60,000EUR. HiFi is like cars, you can spend as little or as much as you like / can afford.
Hifi fanatic and avid consumer of hifi opinions since 1975 here.
Hi.
Varied vinyl journey?
but ended up lucky enough to own a Michell (G)Orbe, SME V with Dynavector XX2 Mk2,
Loved it but when I realised the hassle of screwing the clamp on made me lean towards Spotify I knew something was up.
Sold it all, and bought a P10 with Apheta 3.
Gamechanger.
P10 gives life to the music in the way seeing a pub band live does.
the fact that, the record you put on that makes you think that...
...is your 60's pressing of a Beethoven concerto.
Is an added wrinkle.
Never heard a Goldmund Studio or a Naiiad,
but I own a P10.
Close enough.
Yours,
(What Hifi reader since 1975)
Thanks for your comment
Very interesting and informative.
Some of the other turntable viewpoints in the comments are as expected.
May I add, if anyone happens to look at the name of my channel or, at what I do to my Rega turntables, please read the "about" section of my channel before you leave a negative comment as I've heard it all before.
Happy listening to all.
Thank you
Here's something interesting. I tried your wine glass experiment on a lightweight Ikea Kallax unit (the top of which has a 'honeycomb' construction) and the water vibrated less than what you encountered.
👍😀
I do understand your choice and fascination for the P10. Still I find it a bit unfair to compare the Linn LP12 with an nice little sportscar from the sixties, even with some improvements. The current LP12s have almost nothing to do with their ancestors except maybe the dust cover. After my first CD excitement faded, I bought a Rega RP3, according to my then budget. I was very happy while listening to it at the dealers studio and made the purchase. Before I left, the dealer played me the same piece of music on an LP12. I could not believe that the same speakers were able to reproduce such a much better sound impression. I kept that in mind and bought an LP12 several years later. I still have, but with some significant improvements over the years. Coming back to your P10, I am convinced that it is one of the best turntables money can buy today. I suppose it would have been interesting not only for you, to compare the wonderful P10 with the current top LP12 instead of the P8.
Thanks for your very interesting comment. I totally get your point. Mine was more a philosophical / scientific, a re look at solving a problem approach. Of course, one would expect the top of the range LP12’s to perform very well but they are way more expensive. I hope to get a new LP12 in the listening room one day.
Are you transferring vibrations through your feet into the floor as you move.
Indeed you are. Even on a concrete floor vibrations can be transferred up through the legs of HiFi equipment racks. This is one reason Rega recommends bolting a turntable shelf to the wall.
Speaking as a structural and materials engineer since of yore, I will comment that it isn't "Roy Gandy's Theory", it's basic vibrational analysis, that added mass will contribute to the proliferation of modes. The 3-way tradeoff between the concurrent goals of low mass, high stiffness, and high damping, are ever-present in the mind of the engineer designing a product that should not vibrate. The reason added mass became the default solution for turntables, is that it works better than a poor/cheap product that is light (not for engineering but to save material and transport cost), low stiffness, and low damping. It's a 'brute force, low analysis' upgrade from such basic products to make everything massive (and often extra stiffness comes with that). It's half way to the ultimate solution, but down the wrong road. In the same way that one can't discover email by making postcards better and better, one also can't discover the ultimate turntable by making them more and more massive. cheers
Thank you for your enlightening addition to the topic.
I have never heard a regs product that sounded any good at all.. I got a planar 3 for Christmas in 1994 and I returned it the next day
With the P10, they made the plinth lightweight, but everything else heavy? I’m so curious why they pushed so hard to make things light, and then added a bunch of weight to it.
Hi, not so sure about that. The pick-up arm is incredibly light, I am told. The turntable is calculated to have just the right amount for momentum etc. Interesting point though! Maybe someone from Rega will comment?
@@PearlAcoustics oh I see ok I might have been less informed about the weight of the other components.