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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2022
- Elizabeth II is dead, but is mandatory mourning something the UK is going to fall out about? And what is patriotism in 2022?
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Australian here. Mourning for my Indigenous brothers and sisters who are being forced to fly their flags at half mast and mourn someone who actively contributed to the tearing apart of families well into the 1970s. People are getting angrier about the fact that we are having this conversation than they are about actual genocide.
Yup.
Exactly that! So fucked up!
Let’s not mention the fact that our government created a public holiday at the snap of their fingers… but our First Nations communities have been asking and fighting for a recognised day of mourning and/or to change the date of ‘Australia Day’ only to be told it’s “too hard”.
Yes! And I just read about Uju Anya, the American academic who just got excoriated and banned from Twitter after making an anti-colonialist tweet about QEII dying. I'm not at all surprised the likes of Jeff Bezos can't tell what is worse between 1000 children starving to death during a civil war and one 96 year old rich lady kicking the bucket. These people really do inhabit an entirely different realm of consciousness to the rest of us.
@@DancersHit OMgods, I didn't even think about that. Ugh.
So when I get parasocial with CZcamsrs and Streamers everyone calls me "weird" and says I should stop it, but when millions of people do it with celebrities and the Queen, it's okay?
Hah I had exactly this thought too watching the crowds outside the palace
Don't know if there's a phrase for it, but it's a sort of generational bias? blindness? I've definitely been made fun of / criticised by parents for something that is actually just a newer version of something they participated in when they were younger.
I also think because of the style of youtubers and streamers, it means we're more likely to find out when they've done something terrible (half the time it's because they did it on a stream) but older celebrities have this cloud of secrecy around them which lessens the chances for criticism.
it's especially funny because you're actually so much more likely to have had some sort of actual interaction with streamers and even with smaller youtubers in the comments
Is it acceptable to think all of the above is weird haha
@Amy Ritchie I can’t speak for all but the people I know who are super into streamers tend to sub it for real life relationships/socialization more than the average celebrity fan girl/boy and get super defensive when I say they should focus on developing real life relationships. I guess weirdness mileage varies.
She was someone else’s Grandma and it’s totally normal for her family to mourn her loss. I can’t mourn for someone I’ve never met and have no interest in (I’m not a royalist). I’m British but would probably abolish the monarchy, if I could.
I identify as a low effort republican. I'm not going out campaigning, but if it came to a vote I'd vote to abolish
I joined Republic last Sunday. Been thinking about it for over a year.
@@lemsip207 Do you care about British tradition or heritage?
@@liasmith9286 The world has to move on and modernise. I don't want to be stuck in the past otherwise we'd still be eating the same horrible food they ate in the 50's and 60's with over boiled vegetables and no salads, curries, pasta, burgers or vegetarian meals. I can't stand having to be the stereotype of how British people are seen abroad and I won't conform to it. I want the UK to rejoin the EU. And I never vote Tory either.
@@AMVactivists Me too. I don't want to go out and protest until maybe after the mourning period is over but I have joined Republic to give them money towards their campaigns as their documentaries and billboards cost money. And I've been signing petitions. If you get on the Republic emailing list they will send you links to their petitions.
Great video, Leena. As an Irish person living in NYC, I'm amused to note how many Yanks have offered me condolences for the loss of "our Queen". I don't even know where to start #700yearsofoccupation
Lol JEEZUS, are they actually asking you that?! My god
I’m Irish too, and a Canadian (living in Canada) asked if Dublin and Ireland were closing down for the queen’s funeral. Um, no?
most americans aren't taught a global history and so that person probably genuinely thinks they're being nice that must have been awkward i'm sorry
Fuck that’s awful. Solidarity in being colonized by Britain 😔😔
My husband is Scottish living in the U.S. and he got the same thing!
My grandfather died the day she did and its been very hard every day to be around people in para-social mourning when me and my family are in a very raw mourning period.
Similar for me - the Queen died the day of my Granny’s funeral and it has been really hard seeing all this. Love to you ❤
I feel sadder reading this than I did when I found out the Queen died - if that's any consolation. I'm very sorry for your loss and the situation you are in with the timing. I hadn't thought about this situation so know that this has provided a new perspective to me and others. Take care if yourself x
Yeah, I have very little idea of how truly frustrating it must be to contend with such a personal loss during a time where your country is dealing with the contentious feelings surrounding the loss of a public figure.
Lost my gran last November, and while it doesn’t feel as raw as it did 10 months ago, I’m still figuring things out. The queen’s death did bring up some difficult feelings regarding my gran’s death, but yeah, nothing compared to what your family is going through, I’m sure. The most important thing I’ve learned, that I hope might help you, is that the grieving process isn’t linear, as much as people like to pretend that it is with the 7 stages of grief and whatnot. Whatever you’re feeling, that’s valid. Seriously. *Whatever* you’re feeling. Don’t suppress it, and give yourself the freedom to do whatever it is you need to do to care for yourself and your family. You owe nobody. Nothing. You just owe it to yourself to practice self care and make sure you can make it through. Hope that helps in some small way. Love to you and yours.
Holy shit, I'm so sorry for your loss and for the collective insanity you're witnessing in a time of mourning.
This was not a rant. This was a succinct mastication of the issue. Thank you.
Haha thanks
I am an Australian, and watching the news coverage from our parliament of all the conservative politicians shedding tears for the death of the queen, it genuinely made me angry. They don't have even half that level of care for so many australian people, who are being abused at their hands.
As a Canadian, I'm really looking forward to watching this video. The Queen is still our Head of State which is weird to me, as she doesn't even live here. It's going to cost my country millions of dollars to change over everything (currency, courts, printing press, etc) with the Queen on it to the new King and I'm upset about that. All that money would be much better served helping people here who need aid, especially as winter is coming & the cost of heating homes is rising drastically.
As a Brit, I think its really weird that she's Head of State for Canada, like you said she doesn't even live there or really "rule over" Canada in any way
I think what Lena said about holding our prime minister accountable is really relevant to us as well. Already on the day of, Trudeau postponed a speech about affordability, and I genuinely do think that Canada is going to as much advantage from this as they can to side step on the actual issues in the country, just like they do when something happens in the US.
Hi from Australia 🥲
Are you quoting an article or something when you say it's going to cost billions? I had heard most things will come in as replacements.
@@erinpennington19 Technically the Queen has a representative here called the Governor General, who is the head of Parliament and the commander-in-chief of the Canadian Armed Forces. The Governor General also gives Royal Assent to bills that are passed into law so if the Crown so chose, they could interfere with the passing of new laws. Personally I don't agree that the GG should even be a governmental position because it's undemocratic, nobody here votes for the GG who is appointed.
I wouldn’t consider myself a royalist but I was actually quite surprised by how upset I was when the queen died. I didn’t cry or anything but the news did shake me a bit. On reflection I think a large part of it is that the queen has always felt like a permanent fixture to me. She was the reigning monarch my entire life, and even the entirety of my parents lives. It’s not logical but I think I believed on some level that she would always be around. Her passing reminds me of the impermanent nature of things and that everyone dies in the end. I think that is what triggered a reaction in me
Exactly my thoughts! As I said in another reply:
I think it is just such an insane idea to imagine a figure, who has lived for so long and during such a hectic time, to be gone suddenly and it makes you think about how someone like that has been a constant in global affairs. At least to me.
I’m an American too, but I am also Danish and live in Denmark now. For me, the fact my parents also never knew a time where the Queen wasn’t on the throne either (dad is 64 and mom is 59), and additionally, Queen Elizabeth took the throne only 5 years after the king before our last here in Denmark, Christian X, someone who we discuss here in Denmark as a very ancient and conservative person, died, it’s just a feeling of astonishment that her presence has been a crux of global culture personified for so long that this just feels unstable somehow
Thank goodness I'm not the only one who experienced this. I'm not even British and yet I've still cried and sobbed over her death, and I absolutely did NOT expect to feel that way.
I think that to me she's just always been this comforting presence that was really nice to have around, and I totally agree with her feeling like a permanent fixture. I guess that to me she was also this link to our past, and with her dead it feels like the 20th century is truly gone and what we're left with is an uncertain, unstable future.
i feel the same as you! and im not even from the UK
It shows the end of an era, no matter how you fell about her personly
I wasn't sad at all but I live near a royal hotspot and the sheer number of people having negative emotions as a result of it definitely had an impact as I walked past with my dog affected me. I'm not an ~energy~ person but there's definitely a degree of empathy involved. I figure that the parasocial relationship sufferers are making empathetic people have feels too but on an unbelievable scale.
Also I noticed that in all her life reels they played that covid speech she did and it puts me back in an awful part of my life that I'm not ready to unpack yet.
To me, I think a lot aren't mourning the Queen specifically. It's mourning the time before inevitable change (if you're neurodivergent like me, this kind of change can be really impactful and disruptive mentally). I find they're also mourning an end of an era, which includes the generation of the Queen that we're also losing, for a lot of millennial it's our grandparents. I lost a grandparent this year and my partner lost two. It's a reminder that we're losing a valuable generation and tbh, people have been incredibly nostalgic in the past couple of years because of how grim everything is. I think this is also part of that.
Well said
That’s actually an excellent point. I only have one living grandparent now and also don’t usually experience positive nostalgia so I didn’t contextualize it like that. I guess people wanted to hold on to something and the queen was one of those things, and now that she’s gone people are confronting the fact that times are changing. Given my family history I couldn’t take comfort in her existence, bc she existed as a symbol of colonization. But I understand a bit more of people’s reactions now
This is such a good point. This kind of momentous change ready throws me off balance (I'm ND also). I feel better knowing nothing is going to immediately change but it's really hard having constant reminders about it all
I think this is a really good point.
You've put my vague thoughts into great words, thank you!
I wasn't sad about the queen dying, but I had this "its the end of an era" feeling when I heard about her death.
And I also felt sorry for her family, maybe because my mum's best friend (and the mother in law of a very good friend of mine) died the week before and today was the funeral and so so so many people attended, because she had so much impact to the people around her.
As an American, I find it so weird that people here are genuinely mourning this loss. I get that the Queen was a vital figure but I just don’t understand the emotions behind it from younger Americans. I think with everything we’ve been through, maybe there’s an emotional buildup from the ongoing turmoil and global change.
What young americans are mourning this 💀 as a young american myself, all i’ve seen are a buncha memes bein shared.
@@kuromimi2007 I guess younger is relative, I meant like under-40
Exactly. Like I kinda get it for my grandma's generation, she listened to Elizabeth II give speeches on the radio as a child during WW2 when she was a child. Her parasocial relationship is almost as old as she is. But I can't understand being upset about it personally
While I didn't mourn it, I remember thinking it was a joke as I could believe it. She was already old when I was born and she simbolized a lot from historic prespective. She also just lost her husband. When she died it was a small shock since her death (or mortality) was somewhere abstract for me - just as her herself. She was a persona, personas usually don't die. It's expected they go on as a footnote even after their story is told. The queen, I'm sure, was a real person for those who really knew her, but for me she was almost a comfort character.
We Americans have the luxury of mourning her purely as a celebrity, and people really do get attached to celebrities sometimes (or rather, their idea of them). Especially with the popularity of The Crown in recent years, I'm sure a surprising amount of Americans feel like they kind of knew Elizabeth to an extent, even though we didn't.
When I heard that the Queen had died I felt nothing, as I did not know her personally and she was a wealthy elderly lady who had lived a full and comfortable life until the age of 96. I do however feel sad everyday that the news and our government are ignoring the current economic issues. I feel sad when I hear my friends at work worry about how they can afford to eat this winter, when I hear my mum is working so much just to be able to get by, and when I think of my elderly neighbours and if they’ll be able to afford the rising cost of living. People can mourn the Queen if they want to, but people are going to suffer and the government will do anything they can to avoid helping them. That makes me want to cry.
🙌
++++++++
Yes.
This.
I was shocked at first but then I remembered that life isn’t endless. She was 96 , which isn’t too bad. Why was I even shocked? I guess it was because she had always been there. However I completely agree with all you said.
True patriotism is holding your government accountable. Accountable to it's citizens needs, to the consequences of it's actions and to staying relevant to society as the nature of human life shifts through the years.
"True patriotism is holding your government accountable." How is that patriotism? In theory, about half the population would not support the incumbent government. So how how would you unify the population and rally them in times of crisis? Should the armed forces swear their allegiance (and change it) every four years?
I'm Australian, and my god the wall to wall coverage of Queen content, even in our one left-leaning newspaper has been gross. Our parliament has been suspended for 15 days, a public holiday called "National Day of Mourning" has been declared. This country was colonised by the British, who presided over a genocide of the Indigenous people. A government recently got elected in this country who have promised to hold a referendum to constitutionally recognise the First Nations people as first people of the country. The same government can create a National Day of Mourning for the queen, but refuse to change the date of Australia Day (which currently commemorates the arrival of James Cook, who led the colonial expedition here) and which Indigenous people and allies currently call a National Day of Mourning. The few Greens politicians who have said that they cannot mourn the Queen because of her rule in enforcing colonialism and imperialism, have of course been targeted by racist abuse. It's been an absolute avalanche of people who would normally say they care about colonialism and Indigenous rights excusing the Queen and justifying their nostalgia for decades of racist and colonial policy in Australia.
I'm a New Zealander and I feel similarly. While I have no animosity towards the Queen as an individual, I feel the monarchy as a concept is out of date. I'm not coming after people who are genuinely sad about it but at the same time expecting Indigenous people and anyone else who has experienced disenfranchisement due to English Imperialism to perform grief is tone deaf and unfair.
not to mention they Used Australia as penal colony & forced women prisoners to marry before being shipped over because they didn't want them to become prostitutes etc . heaven forbid they start a life for themselves single !
I don't conflate the forces that drove British colonization with the monarchy - Colonization was driven by much more than one institution. Greedy rich men wanting more riches. I don't think getting rid of the monarchy is going to be the solution. It's the greedy rich men we need to go after. I think the monarchy has some strange social functions that might be almost protective .... a greedy rich man can never become the queen or the king ... but they can become president. It's very interesting.
Never been to Australia so I rely on the media and social media to get the picture. Watching season after season of m@sterchef and Mkr it was amazing how they intensely celebrated cultures: australian farmers, indian, thailandese, lebannon, african, italian, greek, everyone that arrived, settled, imigrated to Australia and in all those episodes just one mention of indigenous. And in 2022, finally, one contestant was descent of one native nation and he based his menus on his heritage. It was making me sick how they muted the original owners.
I’m Ukranian and I had exact same thoughts about patriotism before the war started. I moved to Uk 5 years ago and people have been asking like “don’t you miss your homeland?” And I was at lost to what should I answer. But now, all this horrible war brought out that lost feeling of what means to be Ukrainian. I’m mourning every single Ukrainian that died from russian hands. Like whole country becomes my family.
yup, on some level I think humans are primed to think parasocially, we don't need to know someone personally to feel their pain etc. and people do have shared experiences, cultures and traditions.
I totally understand what you mean, because I am Ukrainian and I feel the same.
Will point out too, that even if someone gives a lot of interviews, you still don’t know them. You know their public image.
Don’t have the energy to comment properly but bloody nora I enjoy the way your brain connects dots and presents it back to us. Always a pleasure to watch
In Canada, the news has had this very weird fetish for talking about how colonized people have a "special" relationship with the queen. There's no room at all for acknowledging what the British monarchy symbolizes in a colonial country. So much of Canada is made up of peoples who were at one point in time either a) colonized by England, b) kicked out of Europe by European monarchies, or c) driven out of their homes by colonialism elsewhere. Reverence for the queen here just feels like Stockholm syndrome.
Ah totally
ewwwww I didn't know Canada was doing this
I work in a cafe and the other day and elderly customer told me her earliest memory is of the queen's coronation, because at the time her mum was the only one on their street who owned a TV so everyone came over to her house to watch it. She was only an excited little kid then, but now everyone from that memory must've passed away. England looks wildly different now than it did to her then, I can't blame her for feeling grief. I really think it has little do with Liz personally and more to do with what we connect to her image- good and bad.
German here, the news were dominated by the queen's death for 3 days straight. I was very irritated by it, but my theory is that German people of all ages, but mostly elderly, are so obsessed with monarchy because of it's absolute term in a cultural but mainly political meaning. People seem desperate for static, supposedly "orderly" systems in these uncertain times, and I do have empathy for that.
But also, legislative periods in a democracy prohibit politicians from holding office over more than 15 years or so, and this happens for a reason!!!
When people talk about this bringing up sadness about losing grandparents, I completely understand. We just lost my partner's Granny, basically the most wonderful purple-haired Scottish lady who ever existed. When the Queen passed, it definitely brought up the grief that's still there around losing her. I miss her every day. I also just have empathy - losing a family member is hard, no matter who you are.
That being said, I'm frustrated to be living in a country that still has the monarchy as a figurehead and is now going to be pouring money into getting everything changed over to Charlie. We have so many people who need those resources, but we just seem so passive about the multiple crises we are facing. It's all "well, at least we're not as bad as America." Honestly, we need to wake up, slap a maple leaf on it if we absolutely must, and get on with the real work of fixing real problems.
I was a lot more affected by the death of comedian Sean Lock last year than that of the Queen. This felt a bit like hearing that a friend’s grandmother had died, despite the Royal Family having been a constant presence in my life.
When I say I can't wait for this, that is an understatement. I've just read news of a woman being arrested for holding up a sign as the queen's hearse went by. I have a 2 year old, but I'm getting very close to potentially getting myself arrested for what I believe in. This is a very frightening direction and the queen's death has really been the spark that's finally lit the flame inside me. I'd fed into the idea that as a mother of a young child, for now at least my role was to help her grow and feed into our local community. I realise now it's not enough.
Woah I didn’t see that! What did the sign say (granted that whatever it was, it is totally wrong that she was arrested), I’m curious! I understand your feelings…. x
@@luisaproencadecarvalho135 The sign said "f*** imperialism, abolish monarchy" and she was arrested for "disturbance of the peace". I actually kind of get that this is a difficult situation for officials because she was in a crowd of people with strong emotions, many of whom would consider that really disrespectful and hurtful, so there's a risk of escalating reactions and potentially violence within a crowd situation which can get dangerous to her and also anyone nearby really fast. But I certainly don't support her arrest and I think she could easily have been talked to and the sign taken off her for safety reasons without such a weirdly intense backlash.
@@luisaproencadecarvalho135 yes "f*** imperialism, abolish monarchy." Certainly divisive, and also certainly legal!
There was person in Edinburgh who was arrested for briefly heckling Andrew about his crimes as he walked behind the coffin on the way to St. Giles. The crackdown on dissent or critique is worrying.
As a white (Irish ancestry) Aussie, we grew up not really caring for the royals, it was an annoying albeit entertaining saga that seemed so far from home. As I got older, I couldn’t understand why we weren’t a republic, the only pro in my head was our domination of the commonwealth games:) I spent a gap year in England in 2018 and I kind of learned how the queen was almost a comfort to the people. It seemed that overall everyone loved her, like she was your cute little mascot and I got constantly lectured for not really caring. I guess I saw her as some rich white matriach who got our taxes, and represented colonialism, and white superiority. When you look into Australian history and the awful stuff that happened here (google it), yes it was the British government that perpetrated it, but the empire and royals seemed intrinsically linked. I have to wonder if she was something to hold onto, to look up to, no matter what difficulties were playing out as a nation.The phrase for ‘king and country’ was definitely a thing. In addition, being in England in 2018 meant I saw the racism in the media that Meghan had to endure, the words printed in your papers, Australia is by no means on a high horse, but it was shocking. It felt like the UK still held this idea that the royals were to be “preserved” (threw up in my mouth) and as an outsider it was all so plainly racist. This isn’t even delving into things like war, where propaganda in our country involved an almost guilt tripped duty to the crown. Side rant: working in a prestigious secondary private school in England, I don’t think I can explain the anger I felt that none of the students knew that Australia even had an Indigenous population or that we were involved in fighting your battles. We were just the ‘colonies’, and I can’t even speak to the many many other smaller/less western members of the commonwealth (not that that should matter), whose history feels to be erased. We are taught of your royals, as ours, her name and face is on our currency and yet we aren’t even granted a mention in history class. SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE DIED for this system, and I do think you’re right, her hands were most certainly tied, but is it almost a bit to idealistic, to think her life experience, education and ‘duties’ would’ve done anything but ensured an upholding of these horrific old values. The commonwealth is still viewed and understood by so many Brittan’s as a period of exploration and expansion instead of conquest, massacre and destruction. And even after all this, it’s sad Lizzie’s gone, especially as now we’ve got to look to Charles right? Maybe it’ll be harder to gloss over the bad when she’s not cute as hell with corgis. It’s so weird and I’m so glad you made this video, because it does boggles me. I like to think you guys could keep a royal family that acted in a way that was more representative of the millions of brilliant pommies, who all look and live so differently. As for us, who knows what’s best, but I do know this conversation, regarding identity whilst difficult, is so needed.
So many random people shared pictures of her. My only thought was: “since when are we grieving colonizers?”
A lot of people shared posts about what a great person she was but never mentioned any of the awful opinions and political views she had as well as the actual bad things she did or was involved in. Also I think it’s crazy what’s going on in the UK right now. Why are hospital appointments canceled bc a 96 year old woman died??
Go on enlighten me, where are her quoted problematic political views and awful opinions...
Seems to be an awful lot of people on here who would consider themselves 'kind' yet comfortably hold some pretty unjustified and unpleasant feelings .
You do realize colonization ended 85 years before the queen was even born? She actively gave back each member of the empire their freedom and independence and they each democratically voted to keep her as their head of state? She then invited each of them to form the commonwealth, a united union which many of them did. And every country is grieving for her.
Just because a couple of woke people on Twitter like to use vague buzzwords like genocide and colonialism to communicate it doesn’t actually mean they have any clue what they’re talking about or that they’re in any way correct.
@@obiwankenobi687 For a start, colonisation isn't even over NOW. We have not given up a number of overseas "non-self governing territories" from the Empire days in the following locations, with our monarch as head of state: Anguilla, Bermuda, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Falkland Islands, Gilbraltar, Montserrat, Pitcairn, Saint Helena etc. With an estimated 270k people in population. Then there's the Commonwealth Realms which, despite their relative independence, still have our monarch as the head of state. The head of state!! There's a reason many countries are withdrawing from being a realm to become a republic.
To give just one example of how this is absolutely NOT true ("actively gave back"? Nope!) you need only look to South Yemen - the Queen's colony in Aden. 1963 - When the Yemeni people rebelled against continued occupation and colonialism, the Queens troupes violently suppressed and of those who did not fall in line, whether they were actively rebelling or not. Native Yemeni were forcibly deported to Yemen's desert as the colony's form of punishment - notable, in response to Aden's Trade Union Congress calling for industrial action in 1958 - with the aim being to intimidate the population. It wasn't until late 1967 when the last British soldier left Yemen. The Queen's rule started in 1952.
@@timmills8521 The crown is STILL the Head of State in 15 supposedly independent countries (it is not true independence if your Head of State is still that of your previous colonisers). First Nations and Indigenous peoples in Australia and Canada, for a start on those 15 countries, are being asked to mourn for a woman who's legacy is their genocide, because she continues to occupy the position of Head of State in their country on the back of her family's violence. Her power and money came from a history and present of colonisalism, imperialism, genocide, and landowning. As a hereditary position, monarchs are absolutely responsible for correcting the violence of their forebears - she did not. She has passed this legacy onto Charles in kind.
@@merchantarthurn all of those countries are independent. You’re acting like they’re ruled by the monarchy. They don’t hold any power. Do you think head of state means they’re still under rule by the monarchy? Because…they’re not.
The queen just remains head of state because she was democratically voted to remain such. Any country wanting to withdraw from British rule was allowed to do so. Many under her reign. In fact all did, upon her death she ruled nobody just remained head of state due to the countries still wanting her there. A symbol of a woman they respected not some sort of monument to past deeds that had nothing to do with her like all the woke people are pretending.
The last place to be colonised was Hong Kong. 85 years before she was even born
You’re acting like all of these countries aren’t literally grieving for her right now around the globe. Acting like she’s some sort of tyrant when all her good overules any bad that she ever did. In fact I can’t think of anything bad she personally ever did.
Granting every country their independence and the choice to get rid of her as head of state, which many chose not to. Creating the commonwealth, her charities, bringing nations together, adored around the globe, performing her daily duties, opening parliament etc etc..
As for Yemen I can only find good things said about queen Elizabeth personally. As for her troops? Can’t find anything about those but that might be another story.
Again, the queen did not cause their genocide and so it is not her legacy. Her legacy is something she has done, she didn’t commit any genocide. She corrected such previous misdemeanours of people who have nothing to do with her by officially ending the British empire and creating the commonwealth. The commonwealth where all those countries chose to join. Because they respected the queen
She is no more a representation of past wrongdoings than I’m a representation of discrimination just because of a racist grandad. She’s not personally responsible for any past atrocities but I suppose in this day and age of thriving on something to be offended about we have to pretend that it’s all her fault
I can’t stop thinking about your words at the end about mourning the country you wish the UK was in the context of the fact the Queen died in Scotland - a country which has been for years questioning its place within the structures of the UK. The Scottish Government are determined that should Scotland go independent it would keep the monarchy and to me that seems like a betrayal of the idea of the social-democratic nation state it wants to build. I’m not sure what my point is exactly but I think there’s something to be said for the fact the queen died in Scotland, where often we are pretty hostile to the institutions of the UK and where I think we’re kind of doing ourselves a disservice by not questioning our relationship the royal family in amongst all our other existential wonderings.
This whole situation is so weirdly alien to me. I come from Scotland, and I truly cannot understand the outpouring of emotion people have had (this is not to invalidate people feeling their feelings). I grew up around people who don't care at all about the monarchy and generally tended to be anti the monarchy. At the moment I feel a lot of frustration that everything in the news is apparently cancelled because of "national mourning". I'm not mourning and the world still exists even though the Queen is dead. So many events have been cancelled, shops have been closed, all sorts as a "show of respect". I just don't get it, because having shops closed is of no benefit to the country, especially at a time where people are struggling to get by. Plus, I don't know why the Queen demands such respect and everyone else being forced to stop their lives for so many days. For the people sad about this, I'm trying not to be insensitive. I just don't understand all of the rigmarole around this and I feel like there's this parallel universe iny own country of people who seem to find the monarchy super important and I had no idea until now.
I'm also Scottish and I do feel like that it's strange for her to be gone, it's the end of a long era. But I also feel like it's so strange that we have a king now lol. As soon as I saw the news announce her death I knew it was gonna take over all headlines and chatter for a long while, but that's just how the news these days works, big stories like this tend to be milked for all they've got. Plus, it's giving Britain a lot of international attention. Personally, I do think they should just dissolve the monarchy now, because what's the point without the queen? Charles the III? Ew no lol
As someone who lives in Edinburgh travelling around and trying to get to and from work has been a nightmare as public transport and roads are all diverted and closed. As someone with a very unsympathetic manager and boss I feel like I am struggling to sympathise with so much disruption to ordinary people's lives as it's just making things so much more difficult
Fellow Scot. The bank holiday is such a strange one! Like a mini imposed lockdown again, nothing open?? Grateful for a day off and hoping the Scottish weather is good that day, at least! 🏔
I think there is a real difference between Scotland and England, the oaths Charles took for England essentially make him like the Pope there, whereas in Scotland he ... isn't? I feel like that is the difference between the mourning thing in Scotland and England as well, generally Scottish people do notice the passing of an influential figure like that but they weren't so emotionally invested in her as the symbol of goodness in the world. Obviously there will be exceptions (see the Edinburgh queues) but it isn't the same.
Living in England myself, I've also frustrated at being asked to stop my life for the day and in particular for those who've had time-sensitive healthcare appointments/surgeries cancelled. For the millions we'll spend on the funeral and coronation when people face starvation and freezing this winter.
Thank you for the earnest and non-judgemental video Leena, as always. You’ve helped me sort through some of my feelings about this! I definitely felt sad when I first heard the news, thinking about her family etc. but it also really made me reflect on how much, as a white person, we’re taught to covet the glamour and wealth of the monarchy.
I live in Australia, and it’s been shocking how ubiquitous Lizzy has been. Our National broadcaster has been flooded with every bloody detail of her death/the royals and it’s honestly so irritating. We get endless interviews with people who met the Queen once 30 years ago, and live streams of all the goings on in the UK. What’s most outrageous has been that our parliament’s been suspended for 15 days, and they’ve declared a National Day of Mourning, meanwhile, the Aboriginal people who’ve been calling for a day of mourning for those killed by white institutions have still been ignored.
I like what you said at 9:48 about how "charity is something where people still hold the power and can take it away at any moment." Wow, so true.
American here. My primary response of saddness was based on the fact that the last few years have been very tumultuous in the world and I'm just tired of these massive changes. I had no idea people were crying at the gates though. That seems pretty wild for someone you didn't actually know. But then again, celebrities always have devoted fans like that I guess.
Being a Canadian in the UK during this period is so weird. Like it has been so odd seeing people call this a tragedy?? A 96 year old woman dying warm in her bed with her family seems like the absolute best way to go. I wish everyone got to have such a lovely end of life. Makes me think of how Chris Kaba will never get to see his child born or grow old and that to me is an actual tragedy and injustice. Additionally the things she did regarding Andrew and having her household exempt from equality legislation is genuinely god awful. People being arrested for protesting too is actually so upsetting and terrifying. The forced mourning that’s being imposed on us feels like emotional manipulation like since she died it’s 24 hours a day about her and how sad we all should be about her being gone. Basically it’s so strange and I feel like I’m not allowed to have my perspective or opinion. You either are sad and upset or shut up 😐
I will say I disagree that she didn’t have real power. She absolutely did. She was able to directly influence prime ministers, she influenced laws prior to royal assent, she sought to use public money to heat Buckingham palace and tbh the list goes on and on.
Love the 'comp mourn'! I'm Australian, and I have difficulty reconciling a Britain who invaded and killed so many Indigenous Australians in the name of the British monarchy. Here, the Queen's representative, the Governor General, has so much power that they sacked the prime minister in 1975 ... and with the recent election, it has been uncovered that the current Governor General engaged in some pretty dodgy dealings with the last conservative Prime Minister. So yeah, not feeling too much sadness for a Monarch who didn't do anything to improve anyone's life in an active sense.
Blows my mind how much power the GG has, unprecedented even if they’d been elected and not chosen by the monarchy on the other side of the world
@@leggyegg2890 RIGHT? And they aren't even elected by the Australian people ... they are chosen by the Prime Minister!! (which has been the issue with the whole Scott Morrison thing recently)
Not that it worked out in Whitlam's favour, but still ...
I'm from Argentina. The death of the Queen has been a great excuse to talk about the sovereignty on the Islas Malvinas.
In 1982, we got into a war with the UK for those islands. But although the claiming is legitimate, we actually got in it because of the coup that was going on. Many many teenagers lost their life to some stupid "patriotic act".
Today we still live surrounded with people who would like the coup to be back, and it's making it really difficult for everyone: last week, our vicepresident was almost killed because of this.
The type of country I'd like to live in? A country in which nobody disguises selfishness as patriotic feeling.
I find the whole situation currently very emotionally draining and confusing. I did feel sad when I heard the news, but I also don’t really know why I felt that way. I find it upsetting that so much money is going to be spent on the funeral whilst the cost of living is currently so dire and a worry for so many. I am self employed and due to the nature of my job people have started cancelling their slots for the bank holiday Monday which I have no choice in and will lose money because of it, which I know will be the same for many other people in various jobs. And then I feel guilty for feeling annoyed about it, and again I don’t really know why!
It's so weird all of this. I feel sad about it but because the family have lost an obviously well loved family member, it's not my loss. I'm feeling purely empathy. It's got no direct impact on my life, she and any monarch have had no direct impact on my life. I find the historical aspects of living through this truly interesting but in the grand scheme of things, what's the point? A famous, rich old lady has died so let's stop the world completely? It's so so weird. Cheers for the day off though I guess. 🤷
At least talented people like artists or sportists or acientists are famous for SOMETHING they accomplished other than being born into a certain bloodline. Ofc there is privilege at play there too, but some effort is requires
Parasocial relationships are indeed something that's completely widespread in the digital world and in today's society. Seems like we're gradually falling out of touch with ourselves, our actual bond and connections with others, and possibly our own mindsets.
Breath of fresh air after all media in UK turned in to North Korea style reporting with police state kicking in for complaining. Thank you.
Not gonna lie, shortly after she passed away I was already thinking “Oh man I can’t wait to hear what Leena has to say on this.”
same lmao
This pretty much sums up a conversation me and my partner had earlier. I was also thinking about the point “she served and worked her whole life” I then questioned my own thought process about that because what do we define as working hard. The royals have teams of people running everything. Chefs, drivers, assistants, cleaners, nanny’s, how much hard work is it really getting into a car that’s already arranged, after having a breakfast you didn’t have to worry about making, people helping you get ready, to show up at a public appearance and then get back in the car and be driven home. How is that serving her country? She famously said I will make no laws but then has laws changed in secret to protect her wealth and assets. I could talk about the nuances and complexities of this for hours.
I'm from Denmark, and I wish my country would live up to the picture other countries have of us - or even most of our own, think that we are... But really we are stomping on our weakest and all the government cares about is less taxes for the rich! We have this sick believe, that the poor and sick are themselves to blame for it.
Once again you have replicated my exact thoughts in a much more articulate way than I could. Thank you, now I can refer people to this when I'm trying to explain why I'm not remotely sad.
great video. i live in Italy and I'm a patriot only when it's about italian vegetarian food. in a few days Italians are voting for the chamber of deputies and the parties with more chance to win are basically far right. it makes me so angry you can't imagine. what they believe in and what they talk about is hate in the name of god. it's insane.
i’m so sorry… same here across the pond in serbia…
As a greek person who has fought against the rise of far right in the greek parliament to see the popularity of fasc*st and neon*azist parties in Italy France and Sweden is absolutely heartbreaking please stay strong and fight for what is good.
Here is Sweden we just had our election and even if all votes aren’t counted yet it looks like the far-right party is going to become the second largest party. And probably be part of the group of ruling parties. It makes me incredibly angry and sad that 1/5 of the population has voted for them, but at the same time I feel such pride toward all the people going out and protesting. I believe we’re now the country in the EU with most far right people in the parliament which really is scary…
Oh no, it's happening in other countries too? It's awful how hate bubbles just under the surface, then emerges all at once like it ain't no thing.
Update: they won.
Omg my god Leena, thank you. I'm in Canada and I've been so bewildered by the reaction of those around me. I personally see this as a time to reflect on the monarchy and colonialism and feel quite uneasy about the shows of public mourning. I've recieved a fair amount of vitriol from family when I've shared that I feel iffy about mourning. Ironically, as someone who wont lose any sleep over the queen's death itself, this has been an upsetting time for me. It helps a lot to see someone echo my thoughts and contextualize things. I always very much appreciate hearing your takes.
I guess to me it feels abit like the end of an Era. I'm Australian so she is our head of State too but obvs in a more distant way. I think (happily) this will lead to a renewed push for us to (finally) become a Republic. I did enjoy looking back at the old footage the media was showing and reflect on how much change she presided over etc. I don't think I feel sad at all, just a 'Huh' and yeah reflective or contemplative. It probs helps that being out of the UK there doesn't feel so much we are being forced to feel any kind of way, and also aren't generally bombarded with Royal media (I mean, a little bit but nothing on the UK I'm sure).
Preach, Leena!!!!! Those words about God touching some more than others.. PHEW!!
The whole reaction to this situation has really surprised me. Especially on social media. People who I consider left, anti-racist, informed about real history and who talk about needed systemic change, are mourning her like she is their own grandma. Yes it's sad for the family but I feel like I've woken up in a parallel universe where everybody is a Lizzie stan and I had no idea about it. Like finding out your best friend was a superhero all this time, but in a bad way. I know it's yet another thing to change but because I always have a sense of foreboding (hello anxious mind) it's like I felt all of this change happening all along. If that makes any sense?
Agreed, individuals and organisations. It’s so weird.
yeahhhh this. I have some empathy for people with conflicted feelings but honestly, I hate the Queen and always will, and I don't understand how others don't. I also hate how among leftists people are mourning her through the lens of "she didn't choose her circumstances and it sucks she was born into a corrupt system" because she.. didn't care to change that system? and actively benefited from and reinforced it? She's being framed as a "post-colonial" monarch but she was reigning while colonized regions were rebelling and violently crushed them. She was happily a part of the corrupt system and lived a cushy life because of it.
I’m from Melbourne, Australia and they’re renaming one of our local hospitals after her but the hospital currently has an aboriginal name. It’s absolutely disgusting that we apparently can’t give a day of mourning to our First Nations people but we can quickly establish one for someone not even part of this country and force the victims of her families massacre to fly their flags at half mass.
Any empathy I feel for a family losing someone is completely occluded by my anger that this woman and family not only benefit from injustice but actively partake in perpetuating injustice. My empathy goes to all the people who suffered under her reign
As a Russian, I wish I could be honest about the grief for what I thought my country was growing up, and what it could have been, versus what it has become. But sadly, we now grieve even the opportunity (and right) to exercise that honesty.
I know, there is such a huge difference between the death of Gorbachev and Elizabeth, but in many ways they were hugely similar. Same age, involved with attempts to let go of past power structures. In many ways Gorbachev was immensely successful - I would never have seen the rest of my family before they died without the reforms of his era - but this video is a bit naïve about what 'dismantling' can mean in practice. The dismantling of the British Empire into a supposedly gentler, but definitely cheaper, compromise of a Commonwealth is still playing out now.
@@kahkah1986 What do you mean by the "naive" part of the video? Also, how do you feel the dismantling is happening in the UK?
@@still5853 when it blames the queen for not dismantling the systems of oppression. Actually, she did rule over the dismantling of the British Empire into a looser 'Commonwealth' construction; this was a middle ground, but it was not without cost, for all sides. As a non-political leader she didn't have the power to actively create laws; the alternative would have been a dictatorship. Also, dismantling things is simply not without its dangers; the Commonwealth did not seem to be a radical dismantling, but it (and QEII) lasted longer than Gorbachev, who technically could still have been in power until last month.
While the constituent parts of the UK are still considering whether to stay in the UK, they may choose to remain in the Commonwealth with the RF as head of state, again as a compromise. The reality is that some Commonwealth countries (Jamaica, particularly) have made noises that they wish to leave and become independent republics.
@@kahkah1986 I will say, I don't know as much about the topic myself, but from what I understand (and from what people from those countries explained to me), Britain could absolutely have better handled leaving the countries they occupied. Weren't they the ones who had the biggest say in boarders of African countries? The countries that were divided by geographical regions rather than learning more about their ethnic backgrounds and dividing by that - with current country divisions causing countless wars and genocides, where that could be prevented by deciding the borders more thoughtfully? While leaving India this way worked okay due to India's own (still partially violent) measures to maintain the country, that same strategy of just getting out and leaving a mess is not a decision to be proud of. And the queen did have a say in that. I think that's what Leena meant when she mentioned that some people (likely people from those countries) are understandably upset when others put the queen on a pedestal as if she was Martin Luther King Jr. I think for someone with as much power, money and diplomatic immunity as her and her family, they do so little.
Again, I am not an expert on this by any means, but I do believe those who have seen the effects of the British empire on their countries, and I do not want to discard their discontent with the public's rhetoric on the Queen being a powerless self-sacrificing saint who could do no wrong.
@@still5853 most of that was pre-1953 though, when the Queen started ruling. Generally speaking, when uprisings started in the 60s, the initial response was brutal, and members of guerilla groups were killed; a looser Commonwealth approach led to the dismantling of the Empire though. It allowed the British side to retain a feeling of respect with something more nebulous, encouraging their 'values', while in reality ceding most of the political power to the former colonies to govern themselves. Given that Britain controlled a huge percentage of the world's landmass at the beginning of the 20th century, without that it would have been much worse. Removing imperial power can be dangerous, as it allows underlying disputes to resurface, as it did in 1940s India and Pakistan. The monarchy has been steadily withdrawing from political engagement since the 19th century though; it has steadily become a figurehead role rather than an active one. What happens next in that respect is anyone's guess; its main selling point has always been continuity, so change is always particularly challenging for it as an institution.
I was living in London when Princess Diana died, and that definitely was comp mourn (great term!). I thought it was sad that a young mother had died, but it didn't personally affect me. But there was huge social pressure to be visibly distraught.
Absolutely. This isn't a patch on the weirdness that existed then.
I am from Russia and it's been a complicated thing to love my country for the longest time but right now especially. I do hold a lot of warm feelings about my hometown, about beautiful cities and architecture and nature. Some folk art and some modern artists. But mostly I just feel deep shame.
and it's just like Leena said quoting Daniel, I grew up believing my country was something else, on its way to something beautiful and open-minded and modern, and then it all slowly turned to ashes and violence. let's all hope we can one day build a country we can be proud of
Aotearoa/New Zealand - I'm interested to see how the Commonwealth countries react... I'm sure NZ will limp along pretending to be into the royal family when I'd say most actual NZers are largely indifferent. It's brought up again the atrocities enacted upon the Māori - both when colonisers arrived and in the decades since and right up to today. A lot of that was done in the name of the Queen. So I'm not sad that the symbol the Queen is dead. I feel for her family as people. And I feel for my grandparents who very much have a parasocial relationship with her.
Can't even go into land because as a NZ European who has just bought as house on land stolen from the indigenous people... I'm very conflicted and that's something our country is still in the beginning stages of reckoning with I believe.
"It's not an insult to the past to not replicate it" love this quote
The thing about patriotism really resonated with me. I'm a lesbian and Polish and it's been quite a struggle for me to love my country for what it is since I was like, 12. Everything happening here lately government- and people-wise has had me losing my mind for some years now, and when I think something will finally change for better, it actualy worsens. I'm really tired of that honestly, and it kinda hurts my heart knowing what Polish people are capable of (historically and now; how we behaved when WW2 happened or how the whole nation helps and has helped Ukrainians since February). Poland was once an open, tolerant, mixed-culture country and I so wish it could be still the case. But it isn't. It feels like the country has ben scarred but healed badly and behaves totally out of the previous place. I still have so much hope for it now - but there are days when it's, well, difficult to continue to do so (for example when the actual president says that LGBTQ+ people that I am a part of are not in fact humans, it stings right in the heart).
I'm so sorry that you are made to feel that way in your own country. I don't know what's wrong with people that they feel they have to hate selected parts of their own society. Why? I feel alienated in the UK for so many different reasons. It's incredibly frustrating to know that everything could be fine, everyone comfortably housed and fed, clean energy, great education, opportunities for all.....except that a group of criminals are in charge so none of that gets done. I hope that for you and for us, love can break through this wall of corruption and hate.
I live in Sweden and last weekend we had our election. The results so far are inconclusive, but unfortunately leaning against the right, where the radical right party having moved up to be the second biggest party. I'm sad to see this radical right party getting bigger and bigger, each election. I'm sad to see how selfish people can be and even more sad to hear that both my parents voted for them. That party's leader is a great speaker & now that they've gone broader, than to just talk about immigrants, even I can forget where they really come from; what their agenda really is. I'm a believer in equity & it's clear that's not their agenda. Even just reading their "vote for us" thingy (that all parties send out before the election), 90% of their arguments was to point at everything all the others do wrong. Anyway, I wish we'd focus less on restricting immigration and more on giving the immigrants proper help when they get here. I wish we talked less about how the, now daily shootings, is the immigrants fault & focus on making sure immigrants gets integrated properly in society, doesn't get stuck in the aid system, bc no one wants to employ them etc etc. It really frustrates me how our system & how people want to change the system, looks more and more like the US.
one of my main issues with the Queen is that she would say things like "I cannot give you laws" and then actively change laws in secret to bend around HER OWN selfish wants (i.e. climate law exemptions for her properties in Scotland, immunity from anti-discrimination laws etc.)
You know, I can absolutely understand what you're talking about. It reminds me of how patriotism/nationalism was pushed on me as a young person in the USA and how as I grew up and learned just how little the people in power here actually care about the common people or anyone who is struggling, that elusion, that facade fell and it was incredibly painful. We all want to live in a world where we care about our neighbors and help people out. Where governments don't make empty promises while continuously lining their pockets as people go hungry or homeless. There's a sense of fairness and in the modern age, we know that royals and other elites are no more special than you or I and therefore, they shouldn't have protections that are out of reach for everyone else. Monarchy is a very outdated idea at this stage of human evolution.
One cause for optimism in the UK is that some of our museums seem to be doing the right thing. Two of my local museums have started contacting relevant people/groups in other countries to discuss care of or returning artifacts. Pitt Rivers finally removed all human remains from display, including a mummified Egyptian child and the shrunken heads, and have set up a committee to examine the ethical origins of their exhibits.
@@shigermuleye5203 Seriously?! So stealing is ok if the owner will hypothetically not care for it? And the actual human remains?
@@shigermuleye5203 this is an incredibly insulting thing to say and it speaks to a weird justification for imperialism that people have. Also, mummies were quite well preserved that's the whole point of them. They're buried bodies and to have someone dig up your grave to display it is vile. So incredibly vile.
I love your comment about loving your country for the people in it. Because that’s all a country is, isn’t it? I think it’s fashionable these days to hate your country, but i can’t understand how people can separate unfair laws or oppressive ideologies held by some from their homes and families and everything that made them, them. I don’t love everything about England but I love the country that let my ancestors in when they were fleeing pogroms, all the neighbourhoods I’ve lived in, all the communities I’ve been part of. And I do agree that part of that kind of love is about making it better and helping people by making change where you can.
Thank you Leena for this video. As an Irish person I find the idolisation of the Queen very strange. Most English people I follow at the moment are acting as if everyone is in mourning when I feel like it's only a very small portion of people who are
Finally, someone with some sense.
Brotherhood of nations, that nobody is allowed to even ask to leave.. if it is a brotherhood, then lets make it an equal, fair, and voluntary partnership.
I always call it the notcommonwealth.
I was sad when the Queen passed as sad as I would be about finding out anyone died really but what stuck me most was the feeling of uncertainty. She's just been there our whole lives and now we are in unknown territory which is scary 😨
When anyone passes away.. a celebrity.. royalty.. acquaintance.. or a stranger you hear about on the evening news.. those feelings of sadness or sympathy or empathy are genuine.. but people are mourning mortality.. that eventually they'll cross over into the unknown.. the grief people feel is for THEMSELVES
I’m about to start a traineeship at a public library in the Netherlands (where I’m from). The library system is very complicated here and it kind of reflects the Dutch governing culture called the “polder model” in which everyone gets their say and compromises. While endless talking and bureaucracy can absolutely be a force of evil, the polder model can be something to be proud of, too. Everyone in the library system has the same goal: to make everyone able to participate in society and be an open, neutral space where people are allowed to exist with no expectations. So I hope for more (mostly local!) collaboration and for government to put their money where their mouth is, and of course for libraries to reach their full potential!
The only celebrity death which affected me was Terry Pratchett. I did meet him a couple of times, and had breakfast with him once, but I cannot claim to have known him. Still, I revered his works, and genuinely wept when I heard the news of his death.
I am from Spain, Maddid. Tomorrow I will start an Engllish course and we will surely speak about her. Thank you Leena, you just gave me the best arguments ever. I love the way you talk, your accent, your personality. XOXO
Thank you for this! 👏 You know what has really annoyed me these days? The BBC.
I mean, I should have expected that it would basically be a Queen stan medium 24/7, but seeing it still makes me furious. Like their 24h daily programming couldn't afford a SINGLE space, one half-hour slot or something, for things like colonialism and the generational trauma of those hurt by it, people's expressed concerns about the monarchy as a completely obsolete institution, as well as the problematic figures within this particular royal family. Instead we get 24/7 commentary that practically presents the Queen as a saint, where extremely conservative people offer commentary such as "isn't it a right faff how other countries have democratic processes for electing heads of state? you have to appreciate the seamless transition that our system affords." and "the French have always loved monarchy and are secretly jealous that they don't have a Queen themselves" (missed the memo about 1789 and the guillotine that one).
If Dolly died I'd mourn her as many do the Queen.
Omg do not speak of her passing! I couldn't bare it!
As a person who was born in England but has lived almost all of my life in Australia, I have very complicated feelings around the queen’s death and the reaction of others. I find it impossible to ignore the role that the monarchy has played in colonialism, and the horrific impact that colonialism has (and continues) to have on Indigenous Australians. A one of public holiday has been declared for later this month as a “day of mourning” for the queen, and I think it’s incredibly insulting that they can declare a public holiday out of nowhere for this, but go on about how impossible it would be to change the date of Australia Day to one that doesn’t literally represent the genocide of indigenous people. I really hope that the death of the queen prompts a serious consideration of the role of the monarchy here and whether it’s still relevant.
In Canada, only last year did we declare a holiday for Indigenous Truth and Reconciliation, and having a new holiday irritated a lot of people for financial reasons, yet next to none of the same outrage for the mourning holiday.
I feel sad for the family having to experience this loss, at the end of the day they are still a family that lost both of their grandparents within almost a year of each other, but that is how far my feelings go. At the same time there is an anxiety linked to the changes that are about to come and I think their is a certain level of mourning for the way things were because I was comfortable and I personally don’t like change and it can’t be said that this isn’t a big change for the United Kingdom in specific (I know it’s causing change elsewhere but I am from the U.K. so that’s my experience of it). I don’t agree with people being hateful about the queen and royal family because they have still experienced loss and I don’t believe you’re less entitled to your grief because you’re rich but at the same time I also don’t think that people should be judged for just not really caring either.
I mean she was 96 they had plenty of time to mentally and emotionally prepare
@@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 Sure, but grief isn't a rational beast.
Yes but I’ve lost grandparents in their 90s and it still leads to mourning and grief, just because someone is elderly doesn’t make the loss of that person in your life easy to deal with and I think everyone is entitled to feel grief and loss in whatever way they want to. You can feel prepared and be expecting a death and still mourn and grieve, one doesn’t always impact the other.
it's not just that she's rich it's that she is complicit in colonialism, genocide, and dispossession of a truly disgusting number of countries. we don't say "Rest In Peace hitler" bc it's in poor taste to the incredible violence he and other political figures (or figureheads) have directly or indirectly sanctioned
@@mmmondegreen8074 please don’t misconstrue my original comment as being in support of the Royal family as a whole, the main purpose of my comment was to convey my sympathy for the loss of a family member, I don’t have to agree with what that person or family has done and been a part of to empathise that it is a hard time for them. I think discussing the issues related to the queen and royal family is perfectly valid and necessary but she was also someone’s mother and grandmother and she meant a lot to a lot of people in the U.K. rightly or wrongly and I believe everyone is entitled to their grief or lack of grief regardless of their social standing or what they have done. I understand how my initial comment could have been taken the wrong way and I hope this clears up that it was meant as showing understanding for a grieving process and not as me condoning their actions and what the royal family as an institution has been complicit and contributed first hand to.
Leena Norms, thank you for posting this vid. I'm an American watching this long after the fact and also watching Britain with interest after the Queen's death and the flight of Harry and Meghan. I am interested to see how this will change British political self-understanding. As an American, I feel grief for my country as you do for Britain. We have a mythos in our nation of freedom and merit. I was taught that here everyone had an equal chance. If you are passionate enough and talented and driven then it is a world of opportunity out there. That is astonishingly untrue. I was taught that the withholding of rights from every single people group other than wealthy landowning white males was an inconvenient necessity and that the 1960's cultural revolution that supposedly fixed inequality was inevitable. None of it was. We pass over native genocide, institutional racism, exploited immigrant labor, exploitation of women, etc. These things didn't just happen they continue on in the present.. I was so profoundly deceived and so profoundly in love with my country when I was in elementary school. The older I have gotten the more I have had to come to terms with the reality that the real voices that I hear, including my own, don't match the myth.
One thing that made me cry recently, it may have been a side comment from the 1619 Project... Is that 'Black Americans believed in America's creedal promise of freedom, even if the Founder's did not.' I love that. So many people see in our founding documents an emancipation from tyranny whether it is a reality they have access to or not. I want to see those dreams come true. I still want to see America be the force for goodness, equality, justice, and innovation that it is always telling everyone it is... Rather than just telling everyone that while carrying on with our perpetual litany of human rights abuses.
I appreciate your channel and perspective! I love listening to other disenchanted citizens who are trying to find true goodness in national spaces! Keep up the good work on behalf of all the workers and all the vulnerable ❤️
I'm Italian, and as an outsider i found kinda hilarious how pompous and extra was this last week. Like, they literally drove around her body for a final tour, and she still didn't got a funeral because she's still has things to do even if she's dead, i'm sorry for laughing but that's kinda funny. British people sometimes seem like a bunch of weirdos for other europeans.
You have summed up every thought I have had in the last few days so beautifully, thank you so much. I want to live in a country where foodbanks don't exist anymore, where everyone can access a more-than-getting-by wage, where people can actually do the things they enjoy without having to sacrifice their hobbies for work. Yummy food on the table, heating in their houses and good quality health care! I want England to be a place where people can laugh with each other in the pissing down rain and stand up for others when they are under attack.
"loving a country that doesn't really love most of us back." Oof.
I almost cried when I heard that line because it's the perfect encapsulation of my feelings towards my country, Mexico. Such a rich culture and beautiful land filled with wonderful people, but corruption and organized crime have consistently made everyday life worse for everyone, and the government doesn't care. I love being here, I love being mexican, but then catch myself fantasizing about moving to Canada or something lol
Something I’ve wondered as a non-UK citizen is: the morning after the Queen died, you (as a British person) go to a cafe for example and ask for you order, greeting the people in the shop with a cheery “good morning”… did people look at you weirdly? Like as in ‘how was the general mood? Where you allowed to be anything else besides sad? Did you have to be quiet and sensitive?’
I went to town that day, a bunch independant shops where shut but most things were open and people were acting normally.
Normal people were actually normally but the radio and TV was all 'quiet and sensitive'
I don’t have time to watch this yet but I needed to comment because of the title 💀💀💀 I literally tweeted this on The Day 😂😂
I'm so glad someone said it so eloquently. You hear random people on Twitter talking like their granny has died and I'm like "woah the media really worked a number in "humanising" the monarchial institution by dressing it in Liz's skin"
Found your channel randomly through wardrobe shorts. Now I’m in love. What a refreshing little gem you are!
I think you've really helped sum up how I'm feeling. I can feel empathy for her family and for people who felt a connection to her (especially since compared to most of our politicians she seemed a million times more dignified and competent), and also after watching this sadness for how individuals within the royal family are themselves suppressed. However, I can't stand the way everything else has taken a back seat (parliament being suspended, cancelled hospital appointments, cancelled strikes), to constantly update us on how sad the whole country is at her passing. Most of the "grief" feels extremely performative anyway.
I am hoping that since Charles is generally less popular, that more and more people will start to view the Royal Family more critically (I'm in favour of abolishing them and opening up the palaces for tourism).
Someone I work with that I was chatting to about my puzzlement about the British reactions to the queen's death sent me a link to this video and I am so glad she did. You expressed my thoughts and feelings so eloquently! As a non British person who has lived in the UK for 16 years (both in England and Scotland) I was taken aback by how many of my English friends have suddenly become raging royalists as soon as the Queen passed away. I was trying to have the conversation with them asking to explain how they could support the monarchy when the country is literally falling apart and so many people are suffering, raising quite a few of the points you raised, but it was like talking to a brick wall because the response I was getting was "We will agree to disagree", without any attempts to support their views. That's one thing I found incredibly frustrating because as someone who grew up in a country with no royals I have always been genuinely baffled about how regular people could support such (supposedly) God's given privilege and power over others. Alas, noone wanted to look into their own beliefs to explain them to me making me think that perhaps one could only understand it if they were British. And so I am glad to see that I wasn't inherently wrong making my arguments and that there are people who were born in the UK and yet see the world the same way I do. :)
I’ve just felt weird about the whole thing. I’m an American in my 20s and know a lot of people mourning her… it just so happened to be after a bunch of people and pets I knew or tangentially knew have died, so for me I suppose the whole last week has been more of a momento mori than anything else
Thursday evening I was in London on a trip when I found out. I didn't feel sad (old sick person, but understood why others would be) but was more concerned about the unknown and being able to get back home. I felt out of control of the situation and wondered how it was going to effect me. If everything was to shut down, then there was no point in me being there. I would have much rather have been able to get home.
I'd stuck it on fb to see if anyone had any opinions. Apparently my priority of keeping myself busy/being able to get home, was a selfish and insensitive thing 🤷♀️
I understand that The Queen dying is a general sad and momentous thing to happen, but as it didn't effect me personally, I'm disconnected from it all. 🤷♀️
I totally agree! Thanks so much for this, this has articulated my thoughts entirely
What a brilliant video, thank you. I'm not mourning the Queen, and have found the outpourings of grief quite baffling - like you say, people crying at the gates of an incomprehensibly rich person during an energy crisis is quite a jarring image - but this has brought up a lot of my feelings of disappointment in the UK that have been lying dormant. I've never felt proud to be British because of all the awful things we've done around the world, but you're right - this is a new era and we can choose to get involved and help shape that.
I'm Polish, living in UK for 6 years now and it resonates with me a lot, I'd love to live in my country but I simply can't, because it is the way it is now. And while I love Poland, I also hate the current political and social situation.
As an American, I want to love my country, but there is so much about it that I'm embarrassed about. I also have a lot of mixed feelings about the Queen's death too and you said everything with a lot more clarity and insight than I would have.
Rebcca, I'm Canadian and feel the same about Canada. I'm both embarrassed and also disappointed in my country. Thank goodness I'm only a halfie!
Australian here. Same.
As someone who lives in a 3rd world country seeing people who live in first world countries complain about how bad their countries are is bizarre to say the least…
Saaame! Also seeing them complain having to be economic about resources (well, the FR, in my case). So they never turn off lights, ever? Wow. Imagine that!
What a breath of fresh air. Thank you for giving words and reasons to so many of my thoughts and feelings at the moment x
I really enjoyed the video :) also, glad that I put the premiere on my calendar, because it's been about a month that every time you post a video, I don't get the notification, even though I've been subscribed (with the bell on) for ages ! I hope you have as much visibility as possible on this platform, Leena 💙
This was such a thoughtful discussion. Thank you. In answer to your question about mourning what I wish my country could be at its best . . . As an American woman of color, I continue to mourn and yearn for social structures and laws that actively construct, support, maintain and perpetuate justice and dignity for ALL.
I am really looking forward to watching this - your videos are always so well researched and nuanced! I find myself being taken aback by the level of emotion and reverence people are displaying - at least half of my colleagues on Zoom today are wearing black. I am neither a royalist nor an anti-monarchist (although ironically my maiden name is Royal) but more apathetic - I take a nominal interest in the Royal family but can't hand on heart can't that the Queen's actions have directly impacted me or my family. There is an economic argument to be made for the monarchy in terms of tourism but I think the UK has plenty of other things going for it! We had a full week of day trips planned next week (in lieu of a family holiday this year) which has now been halved because everywhere we wanted to visit has closed for multiple days over the funeral. I get that people want to pay their respects but the degree of closures, the subsequent impact on the economy and the cost of the funeral arrangements I don't think is warranted.
The fact that being anti-monarchist is seen as an extreme thing in the UK is truly wild to me like huh?!?
Re: tourism
Versailles has way more tourists that visit every year than Buckingham Palace does, and we all know how the French monarchy was brought down a while ago...
Coming from a huge country, I wish we can just acknowledge the collective trauma we had been carrying around since the British came and also acknowledge our value. That we 're a rich culture with so much beauty and diversity. I wish we also let go of certain traditions that are harmful and keep or bring back the ones we need. Also, I wish for more unity and less division.
I've never heard of you or your channel, but you are the first person I've seen talk about the queen dying with nuance. Especially how the royal family is being used by the UK government (and governments around the world apparently?) as a political game piece for maintaining a status quo that is harming people. I found it super interesting! Thank you for your insight!
something I have been thinking about is how top down this enforced mourning is feeling at the moment. Its all coming from the BBC and politicians and the establishment and then brands following their lead. like I thought the purpose of news media was to mull over the days issues but there's literally no room for a dissenting opinion on the royal family and not even room for apathy about this in the national conversation.. while a lot of the actual people I talk to in real life are too busy worrying about their own issues (not least the ones the government should be working on), or like me are fairly apathetic towards this mascot lady dying and quite bemused about the hoohaa that's being made about it. I think it betrays a sense of fragility in that institution that the media won't countenance platforming the idea that maybe she was just a human who died after a long and privileged life paid for by current working people and the stolen wealth of other countries. Like that's an opinion and it's not factually inaccurate but apparently even that is too frightening for someone to express on the telly or in the press
I'm from the U.S. and have never been into that whole royalty thing. I never watched The Crown or anything, and I don't much care for period pieces. So I was shocked that I felt sad about the queen's passing. Not like depressed or mournful, just vaguely unhappy, largely in recognition that England is really having it rough. And then I started seeing all the anger, which really resonated with me for all the obvious reasons (obvious if you're one who cares about things like colonialism, occupation, human rights, etc). So for the past few days I've had these feelings at odds with each other, and haven't been sure how to convey my thoughts on the matter. Thank you, as usual, for putting it all into perspective for me.
You truly are the bee's knees, Leena.
My country, Germany, got rid of the monarchy more than a hundred years ago but still, every now and then somebody suggests that we should go back (including the man who would be emperor in that case). It is presented like it would be fun and a tourist attraction and it couldn't possibly do any harm... well, I saw a clip of a news broadcast (I think it was BBC) where somebody said that they had planned to talk about the cost of living crisis but now that they had learned of her passing that wasn't important anymore. And today I read that apparently people got arrested for calling to abolish the monarchy. Now it doesn't look like fun, it looks like a warning and like we should hold onto out republic.
My mum is from Trinidad and Tobago, a small island in the Caribbean that gained its independence in 1962, a year after my mum was born. She has an English accent due to working in the UK and we live in Ireland. Her Irish friend asked if she wanted an appointment to sign the book of condolence at the local council buildings 🙃
I was in Trinidad visiting family when I heard the news, and it was definitely one of the moments where you’ll remember where you were when you heard. I was sorry she had died in the moment as it felt like the end of an era but I wasn’t sad. Although my dad is British we weren’t brought up in a royalist household and although he usually watched things like the trooping of the colour, I think it was more nostalgia than anything else for him (he remembers the queens coronation as a small child; there’s a 46 year gap between me and my dad). This is in direct contrast to my Irish friend, who is marrying into an English family who live in Ireland. At Christmas they toasted the king at dinner (she was told she didn’t have to do it but our friend group has a bit shocked that it was even done!)
As an American, I feel that what you said about grief for what you want your country to be is similar to how I feel about the concept of "the American Dream." Many Americans (including myself) wish for the idealized USA that is a land of equal opportunity where everybody is realistically able to have "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Unfortunately, it is a fantasy for so many tragic reasons. I have a deep interest in my immigrant ancestors and am painfully aware of the poverty and bigotry that they experienced trying to make a better life for themselves and for their children. Many people in the history of my country, including some in my family, met tragic fates because their society failed them. I couldn't bring myself to celebrate the Fourth of July this year because, in the aftermath of Roe v. Wade being overturned, I felt more furious than jubilant. So I understand the range of emotions from apathy to disappointment to disgust in the wake of massive change (it is an end of a long era) in one's home country, and I don't think anybody should have to fake grief or joy. That disillusionment is tragedy, but the peaceful death of a very old woman surrounded by her family is not.