Alan Moore is right about comic book movies and fascism / Alan Moore Interview 2022 Guardian
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Alan Moore is right about comic book movies and fascism
Comics are a huge part of our mainstream culture now, the adapted films especially. Alan Moore, easily the greatest single comic writer in history who is also the most begrudged as well, caught flak for pointing out the potential link between the infantilization of culture to simplicities and fascism, in the Guardian interview with Alan Moore October 2022.
The thing is, Alan Moore has been pointing out that superhero comic book worship could be a precursor to fascism for more than 40 years, so if this is news to you? You haven't been paying attention.
#alanmoore #mcu #comicbooks #comicbookmovies #hollywood #fascism #thewatchmen
Alan Moore is right about comic book movies and fascism
I do want to meet the man who got radicalized after seeing Morbius
😂
I want to meet the man who got radicalized after seeing Boyz In Da Hood 😩
Me, that man is me
Based
You see that dance though?
There are so many angry videos on yt accusing Moore of saying this and that, but if you actually read his interviews you'll see that not only they're twisting his words but that Moore also is right
It's funny that Moore said longing for simpler times leads to fascism, while at the same time refusing to use new technologies and sticking to old-fashioned landlines. He's a story telling genius, but he's also a little bit nuts.
@@brokko_le3 He said that a huge mass of menchildren paying huge corps to feed them movie pentalogies based on stories for kids is a sign of fascism. And he's a septuagenarian that keeps facetiming whomever asks him to, even the smallest youtubers.
Liking your own post wont make it truthful. Muh landlines lol.
@@pradamikWhat a silly reply full of childish assumptions. It's all literally from the guardian article. Don't get so worked up over nothing.
@@Tretas. Nothing disingenuous about it. It's in the same ballpark, no matter how you try to twist it. Equating people who just want some simple entertainment that reminds them of their youth to something sickening as fascism? Now that's truly disingenuous and borderline ins*ne to boot. It has no basis in any reality. Nothing as dangerous as inventing evil where there is none. So please, go do something productive with your lives instead of inventing witches to hunt. The world is bad enough as it is.
@@brokko_le3It's quite disingenuous to equate masses longing for a simpler sociopolitical climate with an elderly individual's reluctance to adopt newer tech, especially when using them makes life much easier across the board.
And to shun means to deliberately avoid, ignore, or reject through antipathy, so The Guardian's writer was hyperbolic at best seeing as in the very next paragraph we find that Moore has an assistant to deal with all of that for him. You'd be hard-pressed to find a very busy then-68 year old not requiring such.
The Sci Fi Center in Las Vegas is a comic book store and has a channel. The owner rants almost every single night about how Batman was “never meant for kids”, downplays the Confederate flag and defends Ezra Miller to this day. He’s 50ish.
Lol this is incredible
Idolization of superheroes or heroes in general is the problem. I say as long as you enjoy the stories and at best see the characters as inspiring instead of blind following, it’s fine to have comics as a healthy hobby. In short, don’t make superheroes a religion in disguise.
Idolizing superheroes taught me more good morals than my parents. Religion pretends to be real, everyone knows this is fiction.
I don’t see why it’s wrong to idolize stories of figures who do everything to help others, it teaches you to value selfless sacrifices.
So man, the issue is exactly what happened, several communities appropriated these characters as symbols, which are used for one shit worse than another, it's bizarre, nerds are bizarre ☠️
Half of the reason I read comics is because of the community. Not online but in person. My dad, brother, and I all talk about comics and comic characters frequently and we’ve bonded a lot over it. The guy who sells comics at my local comic shop is super cool too. Every time I come in he asks about how schools been and how I’ve been doing and whenever I ask him about a certain comic he just seems to know everything about it. You can tell how much he loves comics. And comic con is pretty cool. I don’t go every year but whenever I do it’s always pretty cool to see how much effort people have put into their own costumes, and how much effort has been put into all the little stands where they sell homemade stuff around the convention. I saw this old couple who wrote their own graphic novel and it looked pretty cool. I wanted to buy it but I didn’t bring money with me. There’s people who sell knitted hats based off of comic characters. I see a lot of cringey and childish behavior online but at the same time something’s just beautiful about seeing how comic books can unite people as long as those people stay grounded in reality and don’t let it consume them.
Do you support BLM?
Reminder that Super Hero comics had some kind of ethics committee by the US government behind their backs, a code of which they had to adhere to, I forgot the name. They were always proto-McCarthyist and were forced to promote "American Values". This changed somewhat later on, but since the Dark Knight and MCU films I see a regression. 😢
dc and marvel only dropped that within the last 2 decades is the thing. pretty sure around TDK they still had that going. that it's become such a meta thing now is very new
Great analysis, absolutely.
Superhero movies are so popular because people are losing hope; in themselves, each other,and the world around them. The fantasy world of comics and comic book movies portray worlds in which there is hope, even if it's in the form of vigilantes, aliens, mutants, and anti-hero mercenaries.
People are having trouble seeing hope in themselves, so they rely on the stories.
How do you see hope in useless sacks of flesh that constantly believe themselves to be better?
I just fundamentally disagree that Trump represented a “detour” from our normal politics. Rhetorically it may be true, but US politics after ww2 and substantively before has been an unbroken swath of genocidal depravity, internal political suppression, exploitation and the winnowing of civil liberties.
That's a great point tbh. More par for the course I suppose. Or rather the evolution of what we're inevitably moving toward
There's nothing inevitable about it, we've been trying to break free of it for decades as people have become rather broadly aware of structural critiques of capitalism, empire, intersection and so on, but one tradition that has held is the blackpilling of the young and the left against participation, by the reversal of cause and effect and drawing false equivalences to make self-fulfilling predictions and to close all doors outside of acceleration and revolution. The left has been placed in a critical dilemma right now, and it's being brought to us by the same forces, firehoses, autocrats and multipolar billionaires as the last (MAGA) one, and has identical electoral prescriptions, ones which ultimately serve only the accelerationist aims of the Thiels and Musks and Veidts of the world. The tools of fascism have outpaced our defenses and we're staring down autoimmune death.
So true... I also think the problem with many 'fans', authors and the industries themselves, is the desire for Status Quo. They want the good stuffs, but also afraid of anything changing.
bruh go do whippets or sum
The only people who think Alan Moore are right are spoiled suburban socialists who have never been victimized and have never needed someone to help them.
what should change?
@@jmgonzales7701cApItALiSm
@TackyBunny because these characters are loved...
Hmm... I know everyone likes Rorschach (fine me included) but I haven't heard many people stick-up for the Comedian or many others. With Rorschach I think people just like his honesty and the whole 'you're trapped in here with me!' bit. Plus, he's the only one that doesn't want to go along with Ozzy's plan sending his journal to the small news store. That and... I think there's a difference between liking a character and thinking they're a hero.
The problem is that Rorschach is a genuine literal fascist. He thinks prostitutes, black people and other minorities are below him. While he thinks himself as a hero and enacts his world view without regarding other people’s views. To him those views are worthless because they’re not at worthy as his.
For me, I used to like Rorschach due to the moments of humanity he possessed. In the novel he is the ONLY one against mass murder everyone else is ok with it after ozymandias does it. Rorschach is the only one to pursue some form of justice in the face of a god.
Also that moment he was about to assault his former landlord for lying about him but relented when he saw himself in the terror that was on her kids faces. Alan Moore has even gone on record saying Rorschach was “almost the hero of the story despite being a bigoted psychopath “
My favorite character in the story though is Dr. Malcom long.
People like Rorschach because he's cool. He's effective. And he's an individual. All the things Alan Moore hates. Which is why Moore can't relate to normal people.
@@thehmc Rorschach is not normal people.
@@thehmc nah he just hates weirdos like you.
I recall the artist Tom Sutton saying this back in the 70s--basically that all this superhero bullshit was fascism. I never understood what he was talking about until now.
I can't take Moore seriously when he calls anyoen "infantile" knowing that he had a cave for doing magic built into his house.
Even the adults who dress up at conventions undwrstand that their Mjolnirs don't actually do anything.
People like batman actively gives to the community. And actually takes care of people he is rich but instead of becoming owl man he actively trys.
not a story a communist would tell you
My solution to this is to not take these things too serious. I enjoy the thoughtfulness they have, the ideas they convey, but I ultimately go for a good story and enjoyable characters. I go see these movies to get away from things for a couple of hours and just become absorbed in a story. I guarantee that most people go for the same things. Very few people are seeing these movies and going to the lengths Alan Moore is with their thoughts. They go see the movie, enjoy them or hate them, then get on with their life.
Isn't that the problem in itself? Aren't we failing to engage with ideas and earnest expression by not thinking that hard about things these people put an inordinate amount of effort into conveying? Don't you think too many people see the world around them, recognize the ways they are conditioned and fed false narratives and just accept things as they are because "that's how it is"? Maybe we could do with less self righteousness and moralizing but the fact remains: everything is complex, everything requires a great deal of thought in order to contend with reality. And the forces of control, indeed fascism, rely on people being too tired, too frustrated, too averse to conflict to engage with the complexity of reality.
something to keep in mind alan moore also believes he is a wizard. no joke.
I mean he might be correct. Chaos Magick is 9/10ths manifestion of conviction.
It‘s really interesting to me that you sorta frame Thanos as an environmentalist, where he is merely a Malthusian. Instead of using all the power in the universe to create abundance, for instance making inhabitable planets habitable, thereby creating more respurces and space for living beings, he only thinks of limited resources and goes on killing half of everything alive. A capitalist through and through.
Death of the artist couldn’t have ever been a better situation for Watchmen, I never knew anyone online or irl who actually agreed with Adrian Veidt, but I know Alan Moore did. Looking through his interviews He seriously wants you to believe that a Homeless vigilante with a strong sense of right and wrong is on the same level as a megalomaniac rich boy who went to the conclusion of “the world is fallen and billions must die for world peace”. Make no mistake that Rorschach has his own set of baggage but that cannot be on the same level as summoning a giant squid alien (or setting off nukes using Dr. Manhattan’s energy if you prefer the movie ending) to prevent nuclear war. Surely that’s not the same level is trying to blow the whistle and make sure that the people involved in the conspiracy don’t get away with murdering millions of people. Alan Moore has to be on some wack shit to try and convince me that Rorschach is the villain
He is indeed on that wack shit but Rorschach isn’t is not the villain himself either. He’s a victim. He didn’t write a story with heroes and villains, just flawed people, some more than others. Anyhow thanks for watching if you did.
@@TheDOOMCAST i did watch it and i thoroughly enjoyed it
I don't say he's Wrong, I just don't say he's Right either. Whats Hypocritical is that Moore doesn't understand that basically all the Real Life Evil Villain Mass Murderers (Stalin, Hitler etc etc etc) followed the same Amoral Path that allowed them to do the unspeakable.
Moore never did and you completely missed the blatant message of the comic, and that's exclusively on you. Not only did you miss that the racist rape-apologist that kept wishing for the apocalypse praised Truman for doing the same exact thing Veidt eventually did, highlighting the utter hypocrisy of his eternally shifting no-shades-of-gray Randian morality, but it's a narrative without heroes where each allegory easily bends to the winds of that fictional cold war background. Moore didn't want you to agree with Veidt and if Doc Man's words didn't make this obvious then don't blame the author because everything was literally drawn for you.
@@Tretas. Apparently you missed the memo death of the author and all media is subjective
You can pretend that Alan Moore is the most amazing author of all time, or you can accept that he is a very good writer who failed to get a lot of his points across.
For real, I think his ideas are better realized in Miracleman and Swamp Thing. Gibbons' artwork made it almost cartoonish (not always bad) so it was hard to get the point I think.
This guy just wants to put his own political twist on everything he reads. 🤢🤮
Gross.
He is one of the greatest of all time, and also one of the most arrogant and unlikable. I’m starting to see a trend in them usually being Marxists
@@Johnnysmithy24 you'd see the right trend, artists and philosophers often go to ideological extremes because they seem to think that way. It's weird. Good catch.
After trying and failing to read Jerusalem I'd argue he's is not a good writter at all. What he is is a absolut master of subversion, which makes him more of an artist in the purest sense (and a "marxist" to reactionary eyes it seems👆). Truth is he ran out of love for comic book superheroes just at the time hollywood was investing big money in them. And this new "billon dollar industry" iterarion of superheroism lacks both the pulpy self-awarenes of golden-silver age, and the twisted subversion of his days.
@@Johnnysmithy24I have seen plenty of Alan Moore interviews and he comes across as a well mannered person. I would like to see examples of him being unlikeable and arrogant.
Well said, sir! I’ve always enjoyed a healthy dose of escapism as a way to cope with existence. It wasn’t until I was much older did I realize that not everyone enjoys it as such. In comes the giant man-babies of the world, further amplified by the echo chamber known as the internet.
Alan Moore and Hayao Miyazaki always tell it like it is.
I haven't heard Hayao as much. But I doubt he's a bleeding heart narcissist like Moore is.
Really good points dan
Jesus Christ, what a breath of fresh air.
especially on this cesspool of a site where it’s been completely taken over by right wing grifters
"You don´t send to save the world someone who want to change it."
You're absolutely right. I hate how Alan Moore gets misquoted, his words get taken out of context and moaned about by CZcams content providers who seem to be terribly insulted that he may, from time to time, point out that reading a superhero comic for children on tube is a bit childish. The Marvel and DC superheroes are nothing but toys of large corporations that do not actually care about making the world better. They provide comic book fans and even broader audiences with simple fantasies of empowerment, they make billions from ridiculous fan service and endless story lines, without making the audiences challenge their view of reality, or of what it means to have power over people. I find it concerning that some fans in particular choose to follow characters like Batman or Iron Man, not because they're rich and succesful in their fictional worlds, but just because they seemed to look cool to these fans when they were children. And as they grow up, they don't seem to care that their favourite characters are actually hugely wealthy individuals who represent greed and hunger for power... no, the fans still see them as some heroes. Much like Alan, I am an anarchist. It's not like I would agree with everything he says but I do agree with him on practically everything political. I find it laughable that instead of turning their attention to real world issues, economy, politics, attempts at improving the quality of life for everyone in the society, a lot of comic fans just stick to their favourite heroes from childhood and become removed from the complex reality in which we actually live.
What do you think about anime "One Piece"?
So if i like some lighthearted adventure about spiderman, or some batman comic, just nkt caring about all of the corporation shit. This makes me a fascist? Man that's why I can't stand anarchics
@@tuskact4overheaven873Anarchists are legit the most arrogant, self righteous, and downright… yes *useless* people in the word. No anarchist has ever actually done anything good for the world other than bitch around and talk about how superior they are to everyone
@@tuskact4overheaven873 Moore is a genius and does ha many points abouit the industry and the state of comics today, but he has tasted too much of his own Kool-aid. It happens a lot to very high IQ individuals.
But it's like saying an attorney's job is to make the world a better place instead of protecting the interest of his client. I agree that sometimes when writing a Story we can have a message or a specific analogy to depict the thing we are denouncing, however the problem comes from the way the message is hauled to the readers/viewers. Nowadays they don't understand "Subtility".
A writer's job is not to alienate his audience with real world's problem, it's to entertain first and that doesn't necessarily make him or the audience used to this kind of Story Facists. People want to escape from reality and enjoy freedom from their favorite Books, Shows and Movies without being labeled such terrible words.
Great video, appreciate you sharing it!
If you read The Infinity Gauntlet, Thanos was in love with Death and wanted to impress her.
He didn't snap his fingers because he cared about overpopulation or some lame evironmental nonsense like that; he just wanted to sacrifice half the galaxy to win Death's love.
Off course the movie had to reframe this for "modern audiences" (normies who have never been anywhere near an actual comic book).
That last statement is what we call gatekeeping. While, Thanos is pretty consistent with his nihilistic fascist motives.
Fantastic vid!!! Thanks a lot!
I think you make a lot of great points, and I wish your videos had millions of views which they deserve
Alan Moore is the indisputable greatest comic writer of all time if you’ve never read anything outside of marvel and dc
From Hell is untoppable.
Pretty much
As if Moore didn't find great success with incredible works outside of the big 2 🤦🏻♂️
lmao there's a reason you didn't name a single one
I don’t hate myself enough to read anything from Valiant
Thanks a ton, this was super helpful!
wow, great video. thanks so much
Do not forget about the time in the injustice comics when Superman became a fascist. Now I have not read that series it is what I have heard from people talking about the series
its a different universe and injustice superman was beaten by the alternate version of superman which was good.
That story sucks, it completely mischaracterizes everyone involved except batman, read kingdom come instead
@@theverminator4219 Thank you for the suggestion and I will read it alongside Batman Beyond comic books. I have started to read comic books starting with the Batman Beyond series stuff changed from the DC anime adaptation of Batman Beyond.
@@michaelcutler6118 if you have a well enough understanding of the characters of DC kingdom come will mean a lot as a story to you, joker does the something similar to Superman in kingdom come and Superman doesn’t become a dictator over it, injustice is possibly the most bastardized Superman ever
@@theverminator4219That's Tom Taylor for you. I can't believe people actually think his nightwing is good
So rare to find a reasonable take on all of this. Everyone else just repeats what they've heard elsewhere instead of reading the articles 👍
Dude! you perfectly summarized the current issues of today's society. Thanks for sharing, I learned quite a bit from your thoughts.
On my annual Alan Moore CZcams binge, and youve put into words how i feel about this whole discourse. He is correct! I feel the more absolutist and un-nuanced mass entertainment becomes, but expensively decorated in capes and cartoons, the harder it is for mass audiences to take comfort in discomfort. And it shows in online discourse, and the ongoing debate about the fall in media literacy skills.
Re: infantilisation of culture. I despair at the phenomenal success of funko pops. How is it appropriate to cutesy-fy a vicious child killer character like Freddie Krueger? I find that so odd.
@Chance H. or he just has a cool design...
Infantilisation of culture, yet most antifascists are ironic coomsoomer buying up all the funko pops, cosplaying. Larping so hard as fascist fighters wearing ski masks and twink black skinny jeans to rallies cuz muh vigilantism
This is by far the most cogent and concise breakdown of what is actually happening I’ve heard from another adult, it was like hearing someone finally repeat back to me what I’ve been saying to others for about ten years, thank you for making this, and I hope you reach as many people as possible.
Hopefully then more people unplug from this modern bread circus and take better control of their actual life.
ill definitely try that, thanks!
God, thank you.
Alan Moore: Superheroes use violence to solve problems in a simplistic way and that's inherently fascist.
Me: What about all the armed communist revolutions?
Alan Moore: *disappears in a cloud of faiy dust cause he's a magician*
That's not what he said though, he isn't a strict pacifist; the problem is the complete lack of sociopolitical analysis in superhero most superhero media except "big powerful man solves complex issues with violence and we must worship him for that, even though the wealth of people of his class cause the societal problems that lead to crime in the first place".
Batman and Iron Man are like the State, they sell protection from the problems they create, it's only appropriate Tony Stark was a military contractor. Not to mention the caricatures of "progressive" people these childish fantasies perpetuate. Batman, instead of solving poverty by wealth redistribution, he keeps his ill-gotten stuff and beats up people that society did them dirty, not to mention his victims are portrayed as villainous and irredeemable to comical degrees.
Which class does such an ideology serve? Someone who uses "Batman" to analyse society would reach the conclusion that you need to surrender to a rich saviour to help you, and that the enemies of rich people are inherently morally corrupt; not to mention that one certain Batman movie that implies revolutions are the product of secret societies that want to bring destruction with a near-metaphysical obsession. So no, violence isn't the exclusive, defining characteristic of Fascism, but only Fascism fetishises it to a ludicrous degree, AND believes that History is the battleground of Great Men, the masses being weak, or always manipulated against their interests, which interests must be secured by the "Elites", and that the Status Quo is always Good. And that evil destructive secret societies are behind the people that want wealth redistribution.
The only thing that prevents superhero media to become completely Fascist, is that they don't promote an attack of the Status Quo from the Right, a pseudo-revolution of "Great (Wo)Men" that "help" society against its own self, that's usually treated as a bad thing and as a dark parallel universe, like "Injustice". That, and that they don't want to alienate consumers who are the "wrong" race or class. But otherwise, superhero media of the type Alan Moore criticises, including the horrible Watchmen movie adaptation, are pretty close.
*Canalus:* conjures up a complete strawman
*Also Canalus:* vanishes while patting himself on the back
@@nektariosorfanoudakis2270 Might be a bit late, but you're comment is dumb. Exactly, he WAS a military contractor, he's not anymore. It honestly sounds like you are just copying pasting bad takes about Batman. Have you not heard of the Wayne Foundation? They run orphanages, soup kitchens, and clinics. Batman villians such as the Penguin, Black Mask, and Falcone are all rich gang bosses. Same thing with Iron Man villians like Justin Hammer and Roxxon Energy. So this whole thing of Batman and Iron Man targeting poor people and not helping them is not correct.
Let me get this straight, Batman "supposedly" serving the rich in the long run, is the same thing as the us vs them way of thinking in Fascism? Just with ethnic groups swapped out with poor and rich? How does some of this stuff even apply to Batman? What movie are you talking about? As I've said previously, you're acting like Batman never goes after wealthy people. Has he ever thought the public/general population as a whole is inherently weak and dumb? What do you mean by "surrender to a rich saviour?" When have Batman or Iron Man actively cared about controlling anyone? It's not that complicated, if they hear that you commit a crime, they come and stop you. They don't want to be president or anything.
Talking about mindless consumerism and the next video recommended is your mandolorian video
Lol. The guy thinks he's a wizard also. His opinion is, let's say, off the beaten path.
He is a wizard though 😂
@@joeylawrence3865 Indeed, he enchanted everyone into believing he ever wrote a good comic.
@@ZiomalettoTHE COPE is PALPABLE in this one
PREACH!
This of course is completely disregarding the fact that the creators of the superheroes in question were pretty much ALL Jewish, AND part of the generation that FOUGHT AGAINST Fascism. Also that comics all throughout the Silver and Bronze age tended to be left-leaning and sneak thinly-veiled anti-racist allegories into their stories.
Yes, absolutely! And a lot of comics even now are explicitly anti-fascist. No question the origins of a lot (esp for example superman and cap) have their root in anti-fascism and creators who were jewish and often of east european descent. Not to speak for Moore as his comments speak for themselves, but I do agree a lot of that has been co-opted frequently by the right and far right. And infantilization certainly lends itself to manipulation.
Fwiw there’s also more than a few videos on this channel which address this as well!
left leaning how? Marvel had a run in the 50s where Captain America and Bucky were Commie Smashing nutballs. It was so badly received that Marvel rebooted Captain America thru his Avengers origin and tried to pretend Previous Caps and buckys didn't exist.
Thanks for admitting that you think that only White men can be "fascist" and "racist". These are antiwhite slurs.
@@Nsinger998i mean captain america fighting commies makes sense
Great content
I think Moore is right in a way. But not completely. Because longing for simpler times harkens back to something like the enjoyment of classics music. The very structure of any society we know. Like musical bars or notes the struggle to understand right from wrong is like hearing a piece from something that moves you 😝
That's not applicable at all, since these hero myths ADD complexity, that is then justified as escapism when all it serves is indulgence. Batman didn't simplify Zorro, it just removed the rich context of the Spanish California setting for an urban anti-crime crusade, to serve people's thirst for simple answers with complex excuses.
It isn't any wonder that eventually even the pretense of god-like detective skills revealing who deserves it, was done away with, when the same audience devolved even further back with Deadpool and Punisher. These are not "simply fun" stories, they are politically stoking the hearts of people who only have place in their hearts for THIS kind of politics. And so THIS kind of action feels meaningful the same way an adult feels contemporary politics, and sci-fi addressing its issues, to be meaningful.
The "fun" people talk about, is a whole plate of spaghetti for ways to excuse MEDIEVAL solutions to a modern problems, which again reflects what their drive is at solving their OWN modern problems. This madness, is HOW an adult can be pro-spreading democracy all over and validating it with blood sacrifice of veterans, while playing put upon for being forced to consider how to vote by the same democracy you would give lip service to, throughly not enjoying the responsibility.
What people DO enjoy, is the catharsis of being hurled BACK into their childhoods where beating up children by children was understood as "part of growing up". But all that did for you, was make it into an unresolved mental hangup that you have to constantly go back to, to fantasize about being the beater and gain ownership of the violence in this form of self-medicating therapy. To feel like you can assert dominance with your fists like a playground bully, instead of EVER growing out of it and realizing how machiavellian the ACTUAL powers that be in this world ACTUALLY are in their operations. And you're dependent on that, that fan "property" of cartoons without being "taken over" by storytelling that you would brand "political". When it employs any other method but the FUN playground fisticuffs, to COUNT as "political".
Wow, that’s a mouthful.
I for one, simply enjoy watching non woke superhero films(obviously not just superheroes though).
It doesn’t sound like you ever even liked the Batman films, comics or games, but maybe I misread that one.
@@prufan What's 'woke,' mean to you? Even 'Sin City,' had a 'sweet trans girl bartender,' in it. Which is apparently enough to get labeled "woke," these days. Well, the comics did anyway, not the movie. If you really don't care go watch your movies. Why bother commenting? You're basically calling yourself too dumb to want more intellectual media anyway.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 dude, most people watch movies for interesting plots and characters, for fun after hard work. No one thinks that fists and battles can solve everything, as in the series. Stop flattery deeper down the rabbit hole and making up reasons
@@dardmul I mean if you think the movies arent any deeper than what Moore thinks why argue with his comment at all. I just think Moore wants a more ideologically driven narrative and when he sees dumbasses buying into fascist principles it angers him. That's all fine and well but it's not like I read Moby Dick and come out condoning the whaling industry even though the book basically glorifies it. This is a key difference i think between the American and the Briton. We like writing about ugly things that people do and British like giving a kind of moral compass to guide the audience. I find that shit corny whether I align with Moore ideologically or not. Perhaps though I get where Moore is coming from because I too dislike fascists and if idiot writers let that bleed into their work uncritically, unironicslly or what have you, it would bother me. I don't watch shitty comic book movies though.
All very good points nostalgia is a component of fascism.
Longing for the good parts of the past prevent us from building the better future
Great video, short, but to the point. Bravo!
Well said…both by you and the legendary Alan Moore.
I only recently got back into funny books after selling off half my collection. And in my twilight years, I find myself looking back than forward. I’m rereading all the seminal works of Moore, Miller, Claremont, Byrne (his Fantastic Four run is the best for that title), and Perez (his relaunched Wonder Woman run is the definitive version of the character). I can honestly say, without irony, that these creators helped shape me into what I am currently.
This comment section is becoming proof of the topic discussed hahah. Great work man! Congratulations!
*adjusts monocle* Indeed it has.
What a pile of nonesense.
Are there fascist (and fascist adjacent) people like what you describe? Sure.
Same way there are fascist and fascist adjacent people who use religion, or tolkein, or any other work of literature for the same thing.
It's not the comic books. It's the people. Same way Metal music did not lead to satanism or nazism. It has always been the people who decide to twist the art to excuse their behaviours.
A quote from the Grand Dragon, protagonist of the 1905 novel, The Klansman:
"To protect the weak, the innocent, and the defenseless from indignities, wrongs and outrages of
the lawless, the violent, and the brutal; to relieve the injured and the oppressed: to succour the
suffering and unfortunate, and especially the widows and the orphans of Confederate Soldiers."
And now Batman's vow from Detective Comics #33:
"And I swear "by the spirits of my parents to avenge their deaths by spending the rest of my life warring on all criminals".
These quotes support Alan Moore's claims that superheroes do have fascistic tendencies.
I agree. Meanwhile a lot of people see batman as someone "relatable", just because he has no powers and exercises, they kind of ignore all the privilege thar allows him to do that. I use quotes because what they actually aspire its to leave like Bruce Wayne, the actual fake persona, and solve their trauma threw violence. He is being depicted more often than any other mainstream hero as a distrustful and authoritarian vigilante.
However, for me batman still has a lot of value in the sense that shows that even really messed up people can be a force of good if they focus all that garbage inside toward an stoic and heroic goal.
Yeah, one of my favorite jokes on that is actually from 'Powerpuff Girls,' where this really spoiled girl wants to be a superhero like the powerpuff girls and thinks she can because she's rich. When the powerpuffs say,
"You can't just buy your way into being a superhero!"
"Oh yeah? What about the Batman?"
Oh god.. the "But Batman doesn't use his wealth!!!.... " dorky criticism that has been debunked a million times. There are tons of instances in every medium you can think of where Batman is using his wealth to help people. This is just lazy wankery from dumb people pretending to be smart.
batman trained to be a super hero, his gadgets are complimentary to him. I think iron man is a better example. @@deadmanreading3152
Yeah well Bruce Wayne isn't relatable because in today's society being rich is a bigger superpower than even superman. If superman stuck to his moral code and lost his job to downsizing he'd still be living on the sidewalk, while bruce wayne lives in a luxury penthouse and goes out at night dressed like a bat beating the shit out of people who have nothing and sell drugs to survive.
I once heard Mussolini read too much superman.
He was right ! If you think about what he was really saying
This is rationalizing a very specific part (a great deal of), but still a specific part of comicbooks and heroes. Being focused on heroes and villians versus politics-I mean, what are we looking for here? Picking up a sign and joining a picket line? or? I mean, a lot of the themes in "superhero" films are indeed developed for access to youth in order to revitalize and/or continue to milk the market for a stable market (as spider-man's character was originally continued or the purpose of in the 60's). Being critical, these stories date back to myths and belief systems, this rant could be applied to many subculcultures. Don't get me wrong, its a great sensationalization of what an iconic writer says, but if we wanted to take something away from that, it should be, "dig deeper" and "write more of your own truths". There is a wise from the top down look at what the implications of the "big screen" are on the way that comicbook heroes are being changed to and fixed to. That being said, is Alan Moore talking about specifically film screens here or are we talking about characters. If we are going on about the realities of escapism in teh 21st century, it stretches far beyond televsion. love the title of your show though "Doomcast"
new follower my friend!! keep it up
The CZcams channel Folding Ideas had a couple videos YEARS ago about Man of Steel and the broader super hero landscape, and watching them now knowing where history has taken us since then is... sobering
IIRC the videos are titled The People vs Clark Kent and Superheroes Revisited. I'm writing this on mobile so I can't exactly alt+tab to check, though
The only way to believe that Alan Moore is right is if you go out of your way to not know anything about either comic books or fascism.
Care to explain? Can you refute him? History shows that comics have been used by fascism in the past.
@@SirGofres if that’s the bar we are going with then we pretty much need to destroy society in its entirety.
I mean I wouldn’t have a problem with that, but damn is it gonna suck when people can’t get their insulin
@@SirGofres Please go and look up what actual fascism is. Batman is not fascist at all. He is violent. He is a vigilante. He is, in reality, a criminal. But he is not a fascist. If he were a fascist he would be going after business owners and CEOs who worked in their own interests or the interests of their shareholders instead of the interests of the nation. Fascist Batman would be an agent of the state.
It's like people who buy into the current politically popular worldview believe that anything and everything that disagrees with them is fascist.
(Fascism is a horrible system no doubt about it and I strongly oppose actual fascism. But "fascism" does not mean "racist," or "militaristic" or "violent" or have anything to do with rich people being allowed to run society. Fascism is a collectivist system where the interests of the state as a whole come before the interests of the individual.
Rorschach is not as terrible as the Comedian or Ozzy. He has been scared by past experiences and his dissolution of society. He even goes against Ozzys' plan and is willing to say the truth and not be willing to compromise even in death. That's powerful.
Funny how Rorschach had no issues whatsoever admiring Truman for doing what Ozymandias eventually also did, after spending half of the graphic novel wishing for the apocalypse to happen and taking the easy way out 🤔And sure he's not as bad as the Comedian, I mean he _diiid_ excuse him from raping but hey who's worse an attempted rapist or a rape-apologist? I'll be sure to ask Rorschach after he finishes slicing and dicing two innocent dogs. Now, what was Moore saying about the fallibility of a Randian moral compass? Nah nvm something somewhere is powerful I've heard.
The smugness of this video 😆
The super negativity, whining, complaining about every aspect of current comics really bothers me. Nostalgia often works like this. Reminds me of a great song by Jello Biafra, "Nostalgia for an age that never existed".
People forget that they were 12, so a lot more was mindblowing, and you just forget about the mediocre stuff that surrounded the great. This ideal that every movie, comic has to be the greatest one you've ever read is very childish. Again they are cherrypicking an incredible John Byrne issue and equating that to ALL comics they read in their childhood. I still read comics. Some are great most are OK. Some are awful. My expectation is just;did I read the whole issue?, do I want to read the next one?, did I laugh or get excited or sad basically feel something while reading it? Then it was good. If not I won't get the next one. I'm not going to go online and rail on about it ad nauseum.
I think in some ways theres prob a chicken egg situation. do directors wich to explore the themes present in these franchises because they see unresolved or overlooked conclusions of these ideologies out in society? I think the superhero films do seem to bemoving toward slightly deconstructing whats going on(too littlle too late, i suspect) . the popularity of a film like everything everywhere all the time which really hits doctor strange in the nuts hopfully is a sign of things to come.
Yoo this is great! Love seeing leftist perspectives in nerd spaces like this. Gave me a lot to think about, you got a sub!
Also constructive criticism, audio in this vid is pretty rough, seems blown out to me, like super peaky. Seems like it could be easily fixed. Hope to see more from you!!
Sub earned
6:09 Fishing is pretty cool. I don't have anything to say about anything else you presented.
I thought the right house of the government. The Conservatives, were the quick active situation approach. While Liberals were the more calmful slow thinking about resolving solutions. I find out, the Liberals, were the ones with quick tackle approach tactics. And the Conservatives, were actually the more calmful ones, trying to be champions of the citizens in America. But, some of the people who served the right house. Have been misusing the ideals about what Conservatives stand for. Like George W. Bush, Richard Nixon, and Donald Trump. A controversial thing Bush did, is like it's sometimes necessary kill evil people without a second thought or another chance. That's like glorifying murder as heroic and justified. This is not right. But I am not into murder. This doesn't go well with my personality, beliefs, and views my parents were born from. My family tree as a whole. For me, revenge, hatred, and murder isn't going to avenge the people who lost their lives in September 11, 2001. Murder and revenge never felt justified in my viewpoint. The government was allegedly responsible for socialism to young people and families alike, blackmailing the rich corporate CEO's, the 2007-2008 financial crisis, and the cover-up of Watergate and murder of John F. Kennedy (God rest his soul). Not saying I am a conspiracy theorist. Not that is correctly true. True, I don't really know. Just a mystery, a hoax, a theory. I'm not a theorist, political idealist, not a judge, not a minority, and not a soldier. I'm just an average citizen with my parents and family. I have the mindset of a child who is into his small world of imagination, childish escapism, and simple minded views. I am never complex at all. I need childish escapism, and imagination to deal with my shyness, stress, and harsh realities of the outside world. Anyway, I think the Conservatives and Neoliberals weren't having any of this. The Neoliberals aren't going accept this. They are middle-class people. Who believe they are champion for the people. What the government has been doing shady stuff. I have pity for the men, women, and children as a whole. The citizens who are rich, middle-class, and poor. I think, the children of those said corporate CEO's refuse to follow in their footsteps and legacy as a whole. I know what a legacy in fiction and the real world is all about. Family, caring about others, understanding folks, and being passionate. To me, there is no such thing as one life style fits all. Any person, anyone can choose their own views, ideals, and lifestyles as a whole. To discover the outside world at large.
To me, I thought the truth is also used for empathy, and calm things down. I think telling the truth is sometimes I need to be honest, as attention. Not hurting anyone's feelings or else. I may be immature, confused, not that much into morally grey views, lack any sort of jugdement. I am okay like this. I am not a minority, not an idealist, not a judge, and not a soldier. Any attempts at judging, saying that other people are wrong, revolting, criticism, and protesting the government. It just feels out of place for me. I would find and realize this as juvenile, cheap, out of character, and nonsensical at the same time. Me, doing stuff like this, would backfire horribly, and a disastrous failure. This goes against everything I was raised for, especially what young people stand for and their families as a whole. No one is right. There is no such thing being right to prove anyone wrong. It's just pointless. Since I am not a part of the left or right houses, or the government, I was never into political agendas. Since I'm apolitical and apathetic to fit into politics. I consider myself as a volunteer and cooperative person. I refuse to hate or lash out at any person, any being. That would be something I would be regretting in my life. I'm a snowflake, who is sensitive, emotional, and cannot argue against other peoples opinions. I am still a youngster in my heart and mindset to hate someone. The truth I believe, it was for ending this arguing, stop putting others be confused, scared, and bickering with one another. To make people look put their own differences aside. Cooperative, empathize, and be there for each other. Sometimes, I find telling the truth as no more argument, bickering with each other, and as a last defense to empathize, peace, and look out for each other. That's how I view telling the truth. There's no such thing as one life style for everyone. Anyone has their own views about the world as a whole.
I agree that comic books do not belong to hollywood. Either movies or tv. When it comes to novels. I do not want any "buts, no, why, or how dare they do this!", sort of thing. Fans, and sometimes authors complaining. All because of deviations to the source material. That's what really annoys me. I'm a casual person. That has been a few years ago. This unnecessary arguing about books made into movies, tv shows, or other type of media. This type of arguments need to stop and put this needless bickering aside. Then again, what was the entire point of doing novels as films or tv shows in the first place? I agree they need to be part of hollywood. Maybe that's whole reason books needs be a part of hollywood. I misunderstood this all along. They were not butchering them. They were only wanted to deconstruct, experiment, and be subversions of the novel material. I don't care if authors don't enjoy it. To me, that's fine. I am not here for arguments. Books have the rights to do films and tv shows alike. I don't mind about changing things or going against the source material. Book adaptations need to be their own thing as well. Not just copy what the source material already did.
I have no interest in Cancel Culture at all. Especially during the riots in 2016 and 2019. If something like this happens again. I will not participate or be exploited into Cancel Culture. I'm sorry. I would be ashamed of myself seeing people believe in these kind of things. This is just nonsense, outrageous, and not a good excuse as a whole. This is something future generations will never or refuse to even acknowledge it. I do not want to acknowledge this either. I am against bringing up people's dark pasts. A very huge mistake in my viewpoint. I am here to do this for my own safety and protection for everyone else. Acting like a good kid by my parents view. Safety and protection is an important part of our lives! I will compromise, even in the face of dark times.
It's what I call the "dumbification of a generation".
It probably started around 2005/2008.
It's gotten worse recently when Hollywood started using comicbook adaptations for some weird topical political agenda.
You think this started in 2005? I’d say a lot of this consumerism began in the 50s and developed in the 60s. It comes down to businesses indulging the shallow and lazy desires of the majority. With the internet and phones it has reached a new peak. Try and get a teen these days (or a young adult) to watch a bridge over the river kwai without taking out their phone. Real art takes effort. Is crime and punishment or ready player one better? One succeeds in being easy entertainment and one succeeds in creating a profound message while exploring our humanity. All that sells is simple entertainment though. The world is addicted and corporations are shameless dealers. We’ve all been raised to be addicted. It’s our only escape from the lack of meaning in our lives. We are all slaves. We work or else we starve or freeze to death on a corner. We don’t want to put in effort because we need escape immediately and constantly. In addiction there are two mindsets- scarcity and abundance. When your future is uncertain and resources are scarce, people can almost never delay gratification even if it cones at extreme costs down the line. We are all in a scarce and uncertain condition. Our art reveals how desperate and shallow it has made us.
@@digineet8421jesus christ you say all this while using your goddamn phone ironic
@@chandlerburse that just means it’s more true. It would be weirder to say we are addicted technologically while abstaining from it.
@@digineet8421 well we are a species that honestly deserves to just fade away
Is that why the director of blue beetle called Batman a fascist ?
I love it when a Guy draws himself as Cyclops, then dares to call someone else a manbaby, is like a twisted derranged poetic justice by itself
My favorite thing about this comment is you let me know how mad I made you. That picture (I just added a beard to cyclops from TAS, but ok) is only on IG. So you found something that made you mad, looked at the PFP, then tracked me to this specific video to comment. At 4 AM. To misspell the word ‘deranged’ in a mixed metaphor.
Yes, sure, *I’m* a manbaby.
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Goose
Says the guy wearing a Hammer and Sickle T-shirt... infantilization.?.. talk about projection. Moore needs to read up on some history .. in particular on Stalinist Russia and the dehumanizing and deaths of millions. I am a comic book reader. I know that superheroes don't exist, you know. Yes, I can distinguish make-believe and reality (unlike Stalin fan Moore). That's maturity. I like horror too. I know werewolves don't exist .. but they can make for a good story. Infantilization my arse.
Says a guy called ‘spirit of hegel’ lmfao yes clearly you know everything about philosophy and don’t misunderstand hegel or any other theory at all and are versed on literary criticism. Also absolutely correct, any philosophy is invalidated by any of its adherents committing horrible atrocities, which is why notably, nobody has been christian since the 1100’s.
Thanks for watching.
@@TheDOOMCAST Good video though. I suppose me and Alan Moore do have one thing in common .. a couple of grumpy old men 🙂... and I'm also jealous of the beard.
@@thespiritofhegel3487 Alan Moore is an anarchist, which means he rejects authority. Superheroes in particular represent authority in Watchmen.
Yes but communists just like capitalists aren't a monoculture. Just because someone identifies as a communist doesn't mean they support Stalin, just like someone who identifies as a capitalist doesn't have to support Donald Trump. You can believe in collectivism and not want to identify with the fascist leaders who murdered millions like Stalin.
Ehhhh I still think capitalism is the best route
social democracy
Remember, "capitalism" was meant to be a derogatory term invented by socialists. Free trade is the way.
But the point is that Alan Moore made all his money on creating comics. Now in his new story collection he includes a withering take down of the comics industry. Kind of like the lifetime smoker, who has gifted cartons to his friends for year, and now he abhors all smokers. Just read the damn comics for enjoyment, as we have for years.
More like a botanist, that gave you seeds and shit, and you gobbled up the shit. Oink oink for years and years.
@Silver Ranger That is not a good analogy seeing as how he got screwed financially 😒 so that's NOT the point
@@leelohaskin7941he still made tons of money, id say the people who make the ink and the paper for his comics were exploited by a privileged white guy
@@dogguy8603 also pretty much all of his comics were deconstructions of the genre, so i dont think it's hypocritical
@@jalegria2190 except he dosent share the profits, who worked harder, some guy in a room with AC writing, or the guy in a sweatshop who made the ink?
aren't all ten year old boys frustrated fascists? at 72 years of age, one of the few things i remember well is my fascination with the emblems of adult male-ness, like muscles. the complete acceptance of ridiculous costumes... the absolute belief that 'might makes right'... now that superheroes have been normalized as adult fare, we see the long lines of adult males at the movie theaters. how can anyone be surprised at the right wing direction of modern times?
how about you create a society of your own?
Damn! Glad I found this channel!
Joker is not an anarchist
Nietzschean to be exact.
Alan Moore is a genius. The greatest mind behind DC comics and graphic novels overall
The man thinks his Karl Marx
I think rather there is a sort of alchemical reaction in people to changing environments that either move to close to dissolution from chaos or rigidification from order.
If there's a preference for Return of the King-stories, that's a sign that whatever unifies people is largely missing and people become, then, drawn to stories that signify and solve that. Batman for instance, who is returning to bring justice, order and hope to a city dissolved into corruption, wastefulness and anarchy.
In the second example you have V for Vendetta. The opposite example. Guy Fawkes rising up on behalf of the people against the tyranny and stranglehold of authority. London, a city lost to rigidification and
I think anyone who doesn't see this is half-blind.
Alan Moore is half-blind. Fascism is not the only way societies die. Batman proves that.
Batman isn't fact or science, but fiction, so it doesn't prove anything except the ideology of the people funding it. Nothing like the Batman Universe's "Gotham City" exists or will ever exist in the real world, since chaotic people that want to bring death and destruction for the funzies don't exist. Powerful people and their lackeys that want to preserve order since it benefits them materially do exist, and they do want to portray any sort of positive societal change as pure evil, since these changes would endanger their place in the hierarchy. That's why you must get your opinions from the real world.😂
Alan Moore is only like this because he is a giant child who doesn't get his way. He is upset that both DC and Marvel upheld the contracts that HE himself signed. Near the end his work became more and more insane. and about people with mental disorders. He complains that other writers now steal off of his work and characters, yet his league is literally six books of him stealing other people's characters and butchering them. But if you think about it, that is how his career began with Miracle Man. Plus you know the whole thinking he is a wizard thing. Alan Moore has become a parody of himself.
lol, just what Frank Herbert was warning us about!
what did he warn us about?
In lieu of Nazi Heroic Realism, today we have idiots with Punisher skulls and Zack Snyder films.
And I say this as someone who read Punisher comics in Middle School. I grew up. So many people don’t. They’re the same person on the inside upstairs as they were at 13.
@@gibsonraymondaPerfect placement
Lore of Alan Moore is right about comic book movies and fascism / Alan Moore Interview 2022 Guardian momentum 100
Alan Moore is/was the new Wertham. Only he was the worst offender of this type of storytelling.
Alan Moore's not asking for censorship, he just wants the superhero to be supplanted by more genres.
Thank you for this. Subbed.
This video explains everything I've been thinking about the thinking critical podcast for years. Anyone know of a positive comics based podcast?
You know, I think you hit the nail on the head. When I see the comicsgate guys and their criticism of Alan Moore, trashing and taunting him, I'm reminded of British Author Will Self and his criticism of Kidults through Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. It's less on politics and more on how people stunted their own growth but Self was horribly vague on what specifically makes Harry Potter and LotR kidult but here we have a medium thats ripe for kidult entertainment and examination. These kidults of comicsgate have a psychological Peter Pan syndrome where they don't want to grow up but must rely on this child like behavior to get acceptance, views, and pure euphoria. It's sad honestly. Even myself, I have kidult tendencies with cospaly but looking at these people with their woke arguments, distaste for change other than in name, and most of those guys revert to reading Superhero comics when there's a whole plethora of comics to read from Presepolis, Mauz, and more but it's always back to Superheroes.
Yo,
I stumbled upon this channel and expected something worth my while. But all I found was empty fluff, pretending to be of any use. , i was looking for content that actively engages my mind, not just mindless gibberish. From a man that thinks he's deeper than everyone around him. You are as deep as the sky is green
You guys get really defensive but you don't bring any arguments or counterpoints, just insults.
It's very funny to be honest.
@@SirGofresBro all of the people who I try to engage with in the comments do the exact same thing and run when I point it out, guess what Political mind set they have!
-Right-
Left ✔️
@@gatchywatchyentertainmentb2090 I don't know about your other supposed conversations, but you can try here. What do you point out?
@@SirGofres Well comics for certain those saying they’ve never been inclusive until recently. Even though throughout the early years there was tons of diverse characters. Not to mention the fact that some of the earliest comics had heroes fighting Nazis!
@@gatchywatchyentertainmentb2090 So? Moore is not a very "inclusive" guy, so this doesn't apply here. Being inclusive is a marketing ploy to sell more, so capitalism. And yes, comics can be propaganda tools, that's what the video is saying.
Has anyone talked about this? When he came back to the White House from the hospital after having Covid, Trump was planning on ripping open his shirt in front of all those TV cameras revealing a Superman T-shirt he would have been wearing.
He has a point. But I would like to remind you that this is the same guy that makes Harry Potter a school massacre Anti-Christ who kill Alan Quartermain with lightning shoot out of peepee
Check out The League of Extraordinary gentleman, guys. It's damn weird.
And Alan Moore of course did nothing to counteract this or ameliorate it. He just made comics more cynical, and more pretentious. And then years later, the fool complains about it! And the ensuing results in movies!! 😏
Truly a failure to predict even one unintended consequence! 😏
Alan Moore is worse than Robespierre.
Don't believe me: Google the World Socialist Web Site's review of the movie Watchmen. And their review of some of Frank Miller's crap, such as Sin City. And of all of Nolan's Batman movies. (They review mainly movies on there.)
He damn well is - whatever the deleted comment said!
@@oneoflokis Alan Moore is an anarchist, meaning he hates state authority, political power, and capitalism and wants the institution of government to cease to exist. Comparing him to a late 18th century dictator is ridiculous. For Alan Moore, he's been saying that superheroes are costumed policemen and strongmen for over 40 years. In Watchmen, he demonstrates how if they existed in the real world, they would normalize police state activity and the image of a strongman.
@CosmoShidan Yes. But he still glamorises them!
I think that, like many basically middle-class fake radicals, Alan Moore says one thing out of one corner of his mouth, implies another thing from the other, and casts admiring glances at the far right. Why was he praising Frank Miller (an obvious fascist) to the skies in the 1980s then? 😏
I think Alan Moore is a great big fraud! His comics (whether about his own or other people's characters) are full of rapey scenarios. Why the left and feminists haven't gone after this guy decades ago, boggles my mind! 😏 But the left are naive on the whole: and if someone SAYS they are left, they tend to believe them! Hey, if you're a pretentious prat like Alan Moore, you can even write GOLLIWOG characters with impunity! 😏 Yet if you're some insignificant pub owner who dares to have a GOLLIWOG collection, and that gets covered by tabloid newspapers because heavy-handed coppers have confiscated it, all the sheep start bleating after the story, and a million virtue-signallers on Twitter will excoriate you! Jeez! 🙄
@@CosmoShidan Hmm. I don't think my reply has appeared.. Maybe it is being held for review.
That's extremely well said
Alan Moore and you are doing "God's work".
Alan Moore has written both superman and batman so what does that say about him? Hell, he was even responsible for perpetuating violent incel culture when he was one of the first to have a villainous incel attack batman.
@Nicholas Time so you can't argue the counter point?
Btw, comic book movies were in full swing in the early 2000s. Does that make Obama a fascist?
Did you even watch the damn video?
@@manofmartin it's the message behind the comic book movies, not the comic book movies by themselves, my goodness, do you lack this much of critical thought?
@@EduardoFlores-bt4fo you're being rude. But that's not surprising for a person saying it'd the movies have but not the movies in the same breathe.
This video was pretty forgettable but you sentence is about movies is very laughable.
@@manofmartin Yes, because the movies we had in the beginning of the century were mainly working class heroes, like Spiderman, shitty superhero movies like superman returns or the fantastic 4, or movies that went beyond the superficial American propaganda like the Nolan trilogy.
There is a difference, and you not knowing it is tells more about you than Alan Moore's.
I honestly try to understand but this painfully reminds me of my far right colleague who obsessively keeps talking about how the rotten West created war in Ukraine and Putin is the victim.
I'm sorry, but you seem to be equally obsessed with "the rich fascists" the same way he is obsessed with "the rich western elites". I really don't this hate for "the wealthy" as reasonable, nor the repeated use of "fascism" for majority of political spectrum.
But I honestly do want to udnerstand this point of view as best I can, can someone please recomend me a source that is a little more calm about the issue and presents more arguments?
Both “sides” created the war in Ukraine and at this point to say that jig is about “democracy” and not a money laundering skim by way of genocide is sheer ignorance.
OK. Re your main "point": I believe that ordinary people obsess online about "fan stuff"; because politics and current affairs are presented as really boring by the MSM; and/or because those same ordinary people just don't see anything in it that appeals to them, or politicians who address their problems. Demagogues always appeal to many people in such situations, hence the rise of Trump.
And I might say that modern comics are aimed to quite a large extent at incels! Hence all their "rapey" scenarios. Including all those of Moore! 😏
Alan more is a pretentious hippie
Like everything, its best we seperate the art from the artist
Don't tell me how I should read my funny books.
You have something against worker's rights pal?
You're on the ball here mate
Or it all could just be escapism to enjoy nonsense instead of all the people who take themselves far too seriously. Like Alan Moore who I disagree is one of the best writers. He has taken other people's creations and tweaked them. One of the reasons he didn't like Stan Lee who invented the majority of the most popular Marvel characters we all love. Also you are complaining about others being too much into Superheros you are wearing a t-shirt with Daredevil letters on it.😂
@@Tretas. You need help matie. So Marvel Comics is the US industrial complex planning world subjugation? Crikey I think you need to stop reading the comics and get out into the fresh air.
Also, I still believe Alan Moore is a hack who is jealous of Stan Lee.
@@samr8603 Here is a quote from pages 202-203 of Chris Gavaler's 2017 essay, The Ku Klux Klan and the Birth of the Superhero which was published in the Journal of Graphic Novels and Comics:
"Perhaps the most enduring mark of the Klan on the formula is the superhero’s para doxical relationship towards law and order. Narratives repeatedly express a core tension
between romanticizing vigilantes and acknowledging their threat to a democratically governed society - a tension Dixon himself anticipated: ‘There can be but one end to a
secret order of disguised men. It will grow into a reign of terror which only martial
law will be able to put down’ (qtd. in Newton and Newton 1991, 166). Both of the two
Journal of Graphic Novels and Comics 203
most highly acclaimed superhero graphic novels, Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’s (1987)
Watchmen (the title translates ‘Vigilantes’) and Frank Miller’s (1986) The Dark Knight
Returns, create universes in which superheroes have been vanquished not by the menace
of supervillains but by the US government through legislation outlawing costumed vigi lantes. Moore, through a fictional editorial, describes the Watchmen’s actions as ‘glorified
Klan-style brutality’ and ‘costumed heroes as direct descendants of the Ku Klux Klan’
(Moore and Gibbons 1987, 12, 30).13 Brad Bird’s animated film The Incredibles (2004)
is premised on another anti-superhero legislation scenario, and beginning in 2006, Marvel
Comics explored the same tension in the strikingly titled Civil War (Millar et al. 2007). The
multi-title series, which imagines a Superhuman Registration Act to end vigilante secret
identities, culminates in the government control of all superheroes and the death of the
original state-sponsored superhero-turned-vigilante, Captain America. At present, Garth
Ennis and Darick Robertson (2008, 13) are exploring these issues in The Boys, a comic book series in which the C.I.A. is tasked with controlling ‘the most dangerous power on
earth’, superheroes.14
All of these narratives repeat actual government battles against the Klan. In 1871,
Congress passed the Ku Klux Klan Act, which, in addition to creating criminal penalties
designed to bolster the Fourteenth Amendment, gave the President the power to suspend
habeaus corpus against suspected Klan members. In 1922, Chicago’s city council outlawed
the wearing of masks in public in an effort to combat Klan activity, and 17 state legisla tures followed with similar anti-mask laws. In 1944, the Internal Revenue Service filed
a lien against the Klan for unpaid taxes, finally forcing the 29-year-old organization to
disband.
Despite these recent fictional echoes of actual government battles against the Ku Klux
Klan, the superhero’s historical link to the Klan remains essentially erased. Rather than
acknowledging similarities between Klansmen and superheroes, comic-book writers have
consistently distanced their heroes from Klan-like adversaries. Bradford W. Wright (2001,
219) recounts the October 1965 issue of The Avengers featuring ‘an organization called the
Sons of the Serpent, which bore a close resemblance to the Ku Klux Klan and pledged to
rid America of “foreigners” and those of different “creed” and “heritage”. The next month
in The X-Man, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created the Sentinels, giant robots with a mission
to rid humanity of the mutant race because of its genetic threat. The following year in
Fantastic Four, Lee and Kirby introduced the first African superhero, Black Panther, who
in 1976 writer Don McGregor pitted against an undisguised representation of the Ku Klux
Klan in Jungle Action. In DC Comics, Dennis O’Neil and Neal Adams introduced equally
direct political commentary into the character of Green Arrow, who in 1969 became a left wing social advocate, further aligning superheroes to a liberal, anti-discriminatory agenda anathema to Klan politics."
Also a quote from the 1905 novel, The Clansman, as said by the Grand Dragon:
"To protect the weak, the innocent, and the defenseless from indignities, wrongs and outrages of
the lawless, the violent, and the brutal; to relieve the injured and the oppressed: to succour the
suffering and unfortunate, and especially the widows and the orphans of Confederate Soldiers."
And now Batman's vow from Detective Comics #33:
"And I swear "by the spirits of my parents to avenge their deaths by spending the rest of my life warring on all criminals".
Pretty fascistic there eh?!
I find entertainment and wonder in some of his works, I like some. Having said that, Trump 2024! P.s. Alan Moore is like Radiohead,, Great bands, great artists, shady politics for not saying sh...tty. The characters they play in the stage give you that mythical, mystical aura, even the themes of their work, still they belong there in the scene, in the stage, outside they are goofy
Where was he wrong in noting the correlation between countless adults funding infantilized worlds making them the highest grossing franchises with the general rise in the west of fascist movements? Didn't Trump drag the political discourse to the mud while the mcu was raking in all the money and audiovisual awards?
@@acatonahottinroof What is your definition of fascism first of all, so we can have a discussion in the first place? I bet it is not the same definition I was taught since high school
@@gerabadillo7889 Fascism is capitalism in decay, once liberalism abandons the charade of democracy.