22:39 - John Dehlin did not cancel me. I received similar criticism, outrage and condemnation from both the exmormon *and* mormon communities. Dehlin hosted a panel discussing the issue at the time and some of his guests had sharp criticisms of me, but that's all. There were others who unfriended me, called for others to unfriend me and asserted that anyone who remained friends with me or expressed support for me were themselves white supremacists - this was both members and nonmembers alike. It was an understandable reaction, particularly in hindsight. Any actions taken against me were not for me criticizing mormon stories or dehlin - they were for the impact of the satire apology. I remain unwelcome in progressive mormon spaces which are usually open to diverse perspectives. Unfortunately, this doesn't fit your thesis in this video, but I appreciate the consideration.
The thesis is that you cannot exist in anti-Mormon cyberspace without kissing the ring of John Dehlin… and I challenged the others to name one who doesn’t kiss his ring that exists with a formidable footprint. I didn’t mean to suggest you were “cancelled” for challenging him… I’ll have to go back and see what exactly was said. Lol… I wouldn’t put misspeaking past me… it’s a little crazy running 4 microphone inputs, a video switcher, a mixing board, and 3 softwares simultaneously while talking.
Evil Apostate is hilarious. I love the deconstruction you bring to the discussions, Jonathan. I'm a nevermo that loves exmos peeling back the veil. Some are better than others, but they all genuinely share their experiences in a manner I find compelling and, more often than not, entertaining. I feel the LDS leadership could/should be doing the work of Midnight Mormons and going head to head with their detractors, but that doesn’t serve their interests. They prefer to remain in their collective bubbles, surrounded by sycophants that buy into their invented nonsense. Be well.
Streeter, that letter was amazing. I don’t understand the backlash you got as you exposed one the main problems with the church. That it’s incapable of apologizing.
@@WARDRADIO I exist in exmormon space and I’ve been blocked or banned from nearly everything Dehlinian. I recently commented on their Facebook post about thrive. I asked “is any of the criticism you receive legitimate or is it all just smears and attacks?” Banned.
While I think that Dehlin has done a great deal of good for those going through a faith crisis over the years, and some of the interviews and discussions he's had on his channel are absolutely brilliant, videos like this one give me pause. I don't see the same ill-intent in Dehlin as you folks do - he seems sincere and genuine to me - but I've also never really interacted with him. But it also seems like Mormon Stories Podcast has become more tabloid in its content lately. I think they overplayed and misrepresented Brad Wilcox for views, for example. I also think there's quite a bit of Wokeism in the modern exmo movement and that concerns me too. Many in the exmormon community look to me like they may be unwittingly trading their godly religion for a secular one. To be fair to Dehlin, when I expressed this concern in a comment on one of his videos (Episode 1531), he immediately responded with an invitation for me to come on MSP - presumably to explain my position. I later ducked the invitation as it didn't feel right at the time - but maybe I shouldn't have. (I did mention the invitation in my interview on the Sacred Symbols Playstation podcast regarding my own CZcams channel and experience with Cancel Culture and the press.) Streeter is freakin' awesome though.
Everyone has lied a time or few in their life. It's part of the human way of trying to control life or how people view you. If lies aren't discussed or brought to light they become bigger. At any rate if people solely rely on John, midnight, or the church for spreading truth only makes you stuck in their reality not your own. Luv luv
Cardon, l stand with you on Pro Life!!! It is so great to see a man stand up for what is right. I love y'all's show and look forward to every episode! Keep it up and God bless 🌿
I'm just going to go ahead and say that I don't really have a problem with the exmos being homewrecked. You get what you ask for when you go down that road.
Well, Exmo Lex made a video getting mad at people who disagreed with the church's pro-mask policy, and then made a 45 minute video with another person, both without masks, in her car.
So many good takes on all of this. Profit John Dehlin...I've been saying that for about two years now, and glad to see it's sticking! Probably one of my favorite vids so far calling everyone out, Profit John Dehlin, ex-mormon minions, themselves, hypocrisy or lies, misogyny and patriarchial is more damaging in ex-mormon groups than the actual church, pointing out Kwakus maskless parties, Cardon's $25 fine for bringing a knife on a plane, etc. etc.
How is patriarchy worse in exmormonism? It’s taught over the pulpit in Mormonism. “Young girls become pornography by wearing cloths in which they feel comfortable,” that’s not something ExMormons said.
@@bradensorensen966 Your quote is nearly a strawman. First, that's not the quote directly. First use the actual quote, “Young women, please understand that if you dress immodestly, you are magnifying this problem by becoming pornography to some of the men who see you.” BIG Difference in what you are quoting. And second, there are MANY never-mo's and christian and non-christian folks that believe in modesty. Do you look at pornography? If so, what type of clothing are the women wearing in these videos? I agree that just by what you are wearing doesn't make you porn - but it does MAGNIFY the problem for some men and to consider, perhaps, changing your outfit. That's all what the context is. Also, have you ever gone to a public pool and watch all of the young and old, single and married men, looking at women? Next time you do, take a look next time and tell me what a lot of them are looking at. Also, watch their eyes when a teenage girl walks past them specifically...then tell me what they do. I'll tell you that a lot of members and non-members DO look. Ask any member or non-member lady on dating apps, what the #1 question to them asked is. Think you'll be suprised by their answer? There's a reason why members (and non-members) are told "over the pulpit" to "shun pornography" to the men, and to "wear modest clothing" for the women. What do former members do - let's be reminded of Bill Reels (consentual) sexual exploits, NewNameNoah's tango with Christy...what's her name...trying to get a lesbian sex video filmed in the temple, Profit John Dehlin's "abuse" of some women, and so on.
@@bradensorensen966 Your quote isn't a quote. HAHHAA. So ridiculous. Are you talking about Pres. Oaks talk? that is soooo not what he said, but keep up the lies. Studies show that at least 75% of men have porn addictions. That's just addictions. How many of that other 25% view porn but it isn't an addiction? Now add in that porn is changing men's minds to view women as objects to be used as tools (that is what one study found). Now, look at how much our society sexualizes EVERYTHING. And you see a problem with men telling girls - Hey be careful with what you wear. If you wear something that shows lots of skin men start to look at you differently. WTF is wrong with that. IT"S TRUE!! Ppl no longer want to hear truth because it cuts into their behavior and tells them they need to change. You are one of those people.
Rumor has it women can dress modestly and it’s still a problem for me. True? What’s not okay is when women are the ones at fault. Men have to own their own sin. It’s not a womens job to fix that. Yes modesty is best but at the end of the day, you have to deal with the world around you And those who don’t live the same. Can’t blame a women for “causing a man to stumble”. Isn’t that what Adam did? “The women you gave me made me eat of the fruit”.
John has got to constantly find or create new issues, crises and shock items to keep his clicks coming in. He is a drama queen. Suits his purpose. I understand his next podcast is “ The War in Ukraine, why the LDS Church is to blame “.
John. If you’re reading this. We promise, promise you, you aren’t that important to the church to care about. No one loses sleep over you. It’s not that deep. Lol Keep it up boys!!!
@@aprescoups4593 Exactly! Just important enough to reminded how unimportant he is. Lol The guy runs a business of tearing down Faith. Not sure how I ought to be giving him any credit lol
Interesting that critics of the church of Jesus Christ have often used the primary song “Follow the Prophet” to mock both so called ‘blind cultish obedience’ and the idea the church is ‘for Profit’. Ironically, all we need to do is “Follow the profit” (ie follow the money flows) of the loudest critics like John D and we see their motives exposed. We see them as they really are. Thank you to Midnight Mormons for both following the Prophet and for ‘following the profits’ of the critics. Great podcast as always! From Australia 🇦🇺
@@yogurtking9540 not at all. JD is an individual profiting off his religious endeavours. Members don’t make bank from church service and worship. Not even comparable.
It’s insane how much of the donations that his org receives goes right into his pocket. Also, in a post a few days ago, he presented it as if he has other paid employees, yet, per his tax return he has no other employees. In fact, I have read that he makes the people he is “helping” work for free and then takes ownership of their work they do on any social media outlet. I don’t understand why Im so invested, other than I think he is a fraud and using people when they are at their weakest. It’s just wrong.
@@yogurtking9540 when John Dehlin says he wants to hear from critics he means it exactly as much as the bishop does when he asks “if anyone is opposed please show it by the same sign.” Believe me, countless serious and sincere people have taken him up on his offer. He just ignores them.
@@WARDRADIO sorry, I like to make thinks very clear. Are you saying if JD invited you on to his show to have a real discussion about the truth claims of the church, you’d accept the invitation.
John Delirious, the super anti-Mormon cult leader prophet is the king of using the word “super“. Everything is super this and super that. He’s always super excited about that super interesting interview he’s about to do on the super ex Mormon person that was super lied to in their former super church. Anyway, I’m glad you guys do what you do, Cardon, Kwaku and Brad, you guys are the very best at defending our Lord and Savior. To hell with those who can’t wrap their head around the truth. Thank you and may God bless you in all you do!
@@mtddmtdd1 Actually, I can, and the list is long. First of all he claims the LDS church is a fraud and that it doesn’t contain any truth, that’s simply not true. He claims that all or most of the teachings of the LDS church/Mormon church our false. He pushes his opinions and assumptions on others as truth, therefore misleading people intentionally. He claims that God does not exist, but that’s incorrect. He claims that Jesus Christ is not the son of God, but that’s also incorrect. He claims we don’t need a Savior, that’s also incorrect. He also claims that it’s very unlikely that“The whole Jesus story“ took place. He said that Joseph Smith was not a prophet, he said Joseph Smith didn’t translate the gold plates, he said that the Book of Mormon is not true, and he also said that Joseph Smith had 38 wives. None of those things are true. He’s also claimed that Midnight Mormons are paid by the church to defend the gospel. That’s also not true. And if you were paying attention to this video you would have seen that John Delerium claims that the Mormon church took his TikTok down. That’s also not true. It’s pretty obvious that Mr. Delerium is super surrounded by a lot of untrue claims. I’m super excited to let you know all of this, but the thing I’m most “super excited“ about is finding the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
We argued about that in a podcast. Kwaku thinks the brand has evolved out of its seedy past, but Brad and I hate it, but I think he does it to try and be “edgy”.
Commenting before watching because I want to discuss what’s up with all the new temples not having Moroni, and also looking very phallic. Who is making these horrible decisions? How do we say no to a design- answer we can’t because we are stupid peons.grrrr…
By Christian standards in any denomination, dehlin, would be held in in possible accountability for his words and actions for simple common Christian standards, as most of the people on his site. He's got issues about tons of things and it's easy to see. He will be revealed to being a fool by his own hand.
I watch essentially all your guys’ videos on YT. I don’t care to defend John Dehlin on every topic. I’ve been active on the exmormon subreddit in the past. So there is at least one non believer that doesn’t bend the knee. Don’t give John more credit than he deserves.
Can I ask a serious question? If it’s boring, why are you watching it? I unsubscribe to channels that I get bored with. I move on. I run away from content I find boring or unfulfilling. Why do you watch this? What drives you to stay tuned to this terribly boring content? It’s as if you just can’t leave the church alone, either after leaving it or hearing about it. 😢
@@josephjanson4753 but why watch at all? You are still here. Replying and commenting. You said it was boring, why stay? (I didn’t watch all of this episode either, I find JD and his ilk detestable so usually don’t waste my time when their faces/names show up unless I’m REALLY bored lol) BTW, are you a member of or ex-member of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS church?
I’m not sure that anyone who would join a conman who allegedly cheats on his wife and with allegedly young women is worth anybody’s time. Second hand (and a firsthand account in the alleged allegations) accounts from so and so tell us JD is an allegedly unhinged person. If the model fits for JD’s stance on and many of those of the exmo cult (community of ex mos )of JS, so it does for JD. Please, anyone listening, leave the cult of JD. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say.
Exmo's don't have a statue of John Dehlin, a temple with his mural on the wall, and a song with praises to him. Mormons have that with Joseph Smith. We are not the same.
@@dylanwilliams2202 thank you so much for the song. I have never heard about this before so I appreciate it. After listening to the song multiple times I think it fits the first part of the definition but not the second. Merriam-Webster dictionary: to express a favorable judgment of : commend. 2 : to glorify (a god or saint) especially by the attribution of perfections. I listened to the artists Ted talk and some interviews. It sounds like he left because of the 2015 anti gay revalation that allegedly came from God. That revalation destroyed his testimony and his faith in God. Sounds like he was glad there was support groups for people like him not that he thought John Delin was a saint. John cheated on his wife (much like Joseph) however I condemn that John did that. Can you do the same about Joseph? I do not deify John like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does with Joseph Smith Jr.
@@coffeedrinkingisnotasin6049 "Can you say the same about Joseph Smith?" I believe polygamy was a commandment from God and Joseph Smith was a prophet but I do condemn Joseph Smith for lying to his wife about polygamy. There were alot of thing surrounding polygamy that Joseph Smith could have done better or differently. I also believe that exmo's distort or lie about polygamy too. The Church doesn't deify Joseph Smith. There can be months where Joseph Smith's name isn't mentioned in church. Do some people within the church take praising him a little to far where it would be considered worship? Sure, but that is idol worship and is against the commandments (even if you don't believe in them). I wouldn't say exmos deify John Dehlin but he would definitely be considered the exmo prophet and the CES Letter would be your Bible. I was going to say this in my first comment and decided against it but because of that comment I am saying it now. I do agree with you though about us not being the same. A huge difference is that exmo's hate us, want to break our faith and want us to be just has miserable as them, while most of us feel sorry for them and want them to be happy. I know you watched this channels latest video (we had to go to sensitivity training), which is how I found this comment, so you know of the vandalism that has been done to members from exmo's (yes, I did see you say that you didn't agree with it) and the love letters by Jeremy Runnells. There is also Newnamenoah wanting to sneak into a temple to film a lesbian adult video, him and Zelph trespassing on multiple temple grounds to try and start something to play the victim, John Delhin saying that he would attack Dallin Oaks, and more examples. The one time I went to a general conference in person there were people outside protesting it. When the Salt Lake Temple has its open house I can almost guarantee you that there is going to be issues with protesting and/or vandalism in the temple (I hope I am wrong on this). If you go on TikTok there are countless videos made about our ordinances and people saying how we are a cult. There are TV shows that are being made to make us look bad. People writing in Books of Mormon something like "this is fake, CESletter(dot)org" (technically would be considered vandalism). And that not getting into the mental and emotional damage that John Delhin and the exmo subreddit causes people who have family members who are still in the Church. Half the stories on the subreddit don't make sense and sound fake, the other half are stories that most members would be shocked happened. Use a poorly researched book(CES Letter) to say we are false even though most of it's claims don't stand up to scrutiny. (Funny story, I actually read the CES Letter before I fully read the Book of Mormon and I still could see how badly researched it was. Everything that bothered me was debunked with my own research or wasn't what was being represented in the letter). Need I continue? This last general conference they talked about being a peacemaker, being respectful of other peoples beliefs and that contention is not of God and to love everyone. And that is generally how most of the church members are. So you are right there is no comparison.
@@dylanwilliams2202 "I wouldn't say exmo's deify John Dehlin but he would definitely be considered the exmo prophet and the CES letter would be your Bible." Pew research said 58% of ex-mormons are unaffiliated after they leave. It is true that i am agnostic and don't want to be associated with organized religion. John Dehlin is not my prophet if i picked one it would be RFM, lol. The Tanner's left the church and still believe in the actual Bible. The CES letter is not their Bible the Bible is their Bible. Shawn Mccraney who hosted the RFM vs Midnight Mormons debate left Mormonism and the Bible is his Bible. Just as you feel Mormons are misrepresented I feel you are doing the same with exmormon's. You are using extreme examples of of those who have done the church wrong. As you mentioned I don't agree with vandalism. I don't agree with how New Name Noah who tried to make porn in a temple. I don't like watching Zelph on the Shelf because they are too liberal for me even though they are my age. I am glad nuancehoe left Mormon Stories as she made it harder to watch. What if I used extreme examples of Mormons and I said they are radicalized so they are bad. I am sure you get annoyed when Mountain Meadows Massacre is brought up as an example. Or when Hulu shows the Lafferty brother's being radicalized. What about the Fundamentalist Mormons (you know the ones who really stick on to the actual teachings of Joseph Smith). You don't like when that is associated with the church. You used a few bad apples. I am saying the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints over all does deify Joseph Smith. The murals, hymns about him, and statues are excessive. People get on the pulpit at church and give testimonies about Joseph Smith. The first discussions with the missionaries are about Joseph Smith. I can go online to the lds bookstore right now and buy a mini statue of Joseph Smith Jr for my home. "There were alot of things surrounding polygamy that Joseph Smith could have done better or differently. I also believe exmo's distort or lie about polygamy too." This feels like the socialism could work if it was implemented correctly argument. It doesn't work, it hasn't work, we should never try to make it work. It is despicable and still practices today as a result of Joseph Smith Jr. "By their fruits ye shall know them." Is it practiced in this life by mainstream members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Not in this life but the next (according to theology). Is it still practiced on the Earth today because of Joseph Smith Jr? - most definitely. God would know this would be the result and would have chose to implement it anyway (according to church theology). I would also love to know how exmo's misrepresented polygamy. I know church members who misrepresented polygamy to me by saying it was about caring for widow's and there wasn't enough men and lies like that.
@@dylanwilliams2202 no I do not hate members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My mother, sister, dead father, aunts, uncles, grandparents are still members. Some members are some of the best people I know. Just because I don't agree with your theology doesn't mean I hate you 🥰
Way to tell the truth . I'm so tired of these I hate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Haters that try to bring down the trying people of the church. I can't watch them anymore It's a bad taste and hurts my soul. So you keep on tell the truth about them, Please.
@@krismurphy7711 If the comments on this video or the video itself *offends* you, or you simply don’t like it.. then click off and go watch a different video..?
@@s.w.t.m.t.s.u2414 Sorry, there is thing called Free Speech. If these Smart Mouths get to gang up in PUBLIC and have their say, then I, and You, are entitled to our Comments in response. Unanswered attacks tend to stand as factual or accurate. These Mouths have set a Standard and I am applying it to Joseph Smith, in order to make my point.
@@krismurphy7711 Yes, of course we have free speech, and I was never saying you don’t. I would say I was giving you a prudent idea for *yourself*, instead of jerking yourself in a comment section of a small podcast channel while being able to achieve, well, absolutely nothing. It’s simply hapless that you’re in a comment section, hating, with the purpose of hating. You’re the epitome of anti-mormon culture, and the fact you do this in your free time is even more hapless. Go against their arguments and evidences in this video and prove them wrong, go ahead go ahead. These ‘smart mouths’ are going in public no more than John Dehlin, especially if by public you mean online. In fact, John Dehlin has *MORE* of stance online than the Midnight Mormons Pocast. Out of curiosity, what even *is* your *point*? If your meaningless presence in this comment section is a part of it… well.. I suppose I’d just leave that there and would hope you come to realize what you’re doing in this comment section is worthless and not even worth your time.
Is the Issue about John Dehlin or Joseph Smith? What is interesting about THIS video...substitute Joseph Smith for John and use that same standard to determine character, veracity, etc. Using these Guys logic, Joseph Smith would have been found to be much more of a liar, fraud, cheat, etc etc. These Guys attack John for much less than Joseph Smith is documented to have done and said.
@@wes2176 Like I said, if you use the "logic" of these Guys and applied it to Joseph Smith, Smith would end up more harshly judged than Dehlin. Ironic.
@@krismurphy7711 so what? Is that really your bar? Bad behavior is excusable just as long as Joseph was worse?!? You’re making the midnight Mormon’s case for them here.
I can’t believe you would accuse someone of making up being molested - you guys disgust me the way you talk about people, put them in a box. I don’t care what side you’re on let’s be respectful. Who is the “they” you’re even talking about? There is honest people searching for the truth looking at the information that is out there.
You guys really have legitimately caught John Dehlin in a goof. But you guys need to be more respectful of questioning and disbelieving former members.
Being a scholar is sign a that your welling to do some work that satisfies college professors. The fact that he lies, is a sign that John dalin is a liar
11:45 That is what I was thinking before I heard this part of the video. I have to give John credit there, he has done one of the things that people rarely have been able to do. He has created a situation that has actually united some believing members of the church and some former members in this area. That is not a simple accomplishment. 😂
They’re making fun of him because Dehlin literally BEGS to be called out and made fun of. He lies and cries and whines like a snot-nosed kid on the playground nobody wants to play with because he’s always pretending to get hurt for attention. Dehlin is the one constantly ATTACKING these guys and the Church with actual smear campaigns. HUGE difference.
John Dehlin is a good man, but definitely has a big ego and obviously isn't afraid to ruffle feathers. At the end of the day, his work has exposed the spiritual bankruptcy of Satan's little church in Utah so I have to assume he's doing God's work.
Kwaku paints with a very large brush and shows he has a very distorted view of exmormons. "Ex Mormonism is more patriarchal and misogynistic than the current church leadership." Feel free to hate on JD but you look silly when you make a statement like this. And a better way to start would have been "This is how John Dehlin lies to you!" Not "They".
The Young Guys have how many years within the LDS Church? Didn't live through the 1978 Debacle. How old when Prop 8 happened in CA? Were they around before the Internet and the New Church Openess?
When I first left the Mormon church I enjoyed many of the Mormon Stories Podcasts, but I never liked John. There is a long list of annoyingly stupid things John has done for attention, but when he called the cops due to perceived threats over the Inglourious Bastards knock off, I asked myself "how can anyone take this guy seriously?" I think he has been around so long that he has to come up with new over the top content and he doesn't mind fabricating Drama for clicks. He is a drama queen. I am glad to have both the cult of John/Thrive and the cult of Mormonism out of my life. Both promise happiness and truth, but instead deliver misery and sorrow.
There are millions of members that are happy and believe they have found truth which makes you wrong. If you found misery and sorrow, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it had to do with you. Sorry.
People find joy in lots of things that doesn’t make those who don’t find joy in the wrong. The real question is what in religion makes people happy, and does religion have a monopoly on that? I believe that what makes people happy in religion has nothing to do with the religion, but are things the religion uses to manipulate people. Community is the biggest example. To be honest, the misery I found in religion had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with control and manipulation from leadership. Once I got out from that my life got better. It was not me.
@@derrekchild60 I understand your point, but when I feel controlled or manipulated in my life or in the church, I have to take a step back and ask myself… “am I really being controlled or manipulated? Or am I just not setting boundaries?” No one makes me go to church. No one makes me pay my tithing. No one made me marry my husband. No one makes me accept church callings. I can always say “no” to any of these things. If I feel manipulated or controlled, I have to ask myself… is the problem them or me?
I did that, and I left. What I have found is everything positive about the church can be found outside of it, everything unique about about is questionable at best. For example eternal families, most religions just assume you will be with your loved ones on the other side. Many religions/beliefs believe one’s deceased ancestors may even intervene to help loved ones on earth. Mormons believe families are only possible through temple ceremonies. The deference is Mormons use enteral families, more specifically the fear of losing an eternal family, to create control. When a child chooses to leave the church, they are ruining the eternal family, and this causes great loss to Mormon parents. It causes pain and stress that otherwise would not exist. I have seen this first hand many times as I have seen many families have loved ones leave the church. The temple is another example. To make it to heaven you must partake of the temple ordnances. To gain entry to the temple you must pay a full tithing. People are literally paying to get into heaven. I know people who have written big checks just to attend weddings. Most people that I know don’t really like the temple. They find it weird and boring, but you would never know that by the way they talk about it at church or in testimony meeting. Missions are similar. Most missionaries I know and I served with struggle and don’t really like their mission, but claim it to be the best time of their life. My experience is everything unique about the church is not great, and everything good about the church can be found elsewhere and has little to do with the church. I always wondered why apostles have to lie to make points. Holland has lied multiple times but that didn’t stop people from spreading those lies and claiming to know through the spirit those lies were true. Nelson tells a story of a plane catching fire that never happened, the story of the navel ship shared by a 70 in conference never happened, Paul H Dunn fabricated stories, and all of these have been repeated by members as truths they know through the Holy Ghost. Point is the church will say and do anything to keep members coming, many times dishonestly. It is them.
@@WARDRADIO oh maybe simply because you’ll actually talk to individuals with opposing views??? Lol. I was all up in the chat for their most recent “thrive die live” bs and not one acknowledgment.
@@WARDRADIO there are two specific ways that you’re better than JD: 1. You’re willing to talk to your critics. 2. You admit that you’re doing religion. He pretends like he’s not. You admit that it’s a faith. He lies and says his beliefs are purely rational.
@@flipjohnson5863 if you have to ask then that's probably something that would be good for you to think about. ask better questions get better answers. What value would someone bring by talking about something that is traumatic to so many people. I'm glad you midnight mormons aren't effected. there is obviously a pick and choose way to stay in mormonism that I wasn't aware of. I wish I could have been in you guys sunday school class growing up but alas I grew up in black and white mormon absolutist culture that didn't allow for that but did allowed for the mormon label. Midnight mormons is an awesome name. One halloween we were the mormon mafia. Livin on the edge! very cool imagery. I was told that fighting and confrontationalist behavior could get you exed. change is good.
@@flipjohnson5863 well I reckon they could...and do. there are a lot of good youtubers out there. I think we are all hypocrites to some degree as we learn and grow but I havent seen anything flagrantly hypocritcal from him. I really believe he is doing a lot of good. I hope he makes lots of money from it too. Id buy a mug cup from him. nothing wrong with that. you guys are almost breaking 3k subs. hope you can monetize what you are doing as well at some point. Im sure you can enlighten me further on why I should hate this man.
@@gordonzio “they do some good” is true of any number of people and organizations. The church “does some good” too but that’s no defense against valid criticism against it. It’s just deflection. I’m fact, it’s exactly how the church responds to valid criticism.
@@wes2176 Sounds like you got some sort of persecution complex if you think mean words on the internet or people’s opinions differing your own are the same as the systematic execution of millions of people. I’m honestly shocked that anyone would believe that… like you’re either trolling or just lack empathy for what Jews and others went thru under Nazi rule.
John Dehlin: spends 15 years and 1500 podcasts unraveling all the deep problems in Mormonism by interviewing the most respected experts in Mormon history. His work, and others, triggers the church to release the gospel topic essays and begin the Joseph smith papers project. The explosion of knowledge of problematic church history led church historian marlin jenson to say “not since Kirtland” has there been so many people leaving the church. Thousands struggle with faith crisis and many leave. Midnight Mormons: John Dehlin lied about some internet stuff and had an affair. *** seriously… Dehlin is such a small small part of what’s triggering thousands of lds to struggle with the very real problems with church history. ExMOS don’t need Dehlin. The information is all there. That’s why an army of people on tik tok can easily make content that cuts deep in foundational issues in BOM, BofAbraham, polygamy, changes to temple ceremonies, racism. All that information is out there and sources can be verified. Proving John Dehlin a flawed person does not make the mountain of church problems go away.
@@wes2176 you talk all the time and say nothing. Maybe instead of posting 50 times a day… you should actually study up on the historicity problems with the Book of Mormon, translation problems with book of Abraham, problems with polygamy, racism in scripture and prophetic teachings, changes to temple ordinances, deletions and alterations of doctrine and covenants, multiple first vision accounts, lack of evidence for priesthood restoration.
@@flipjohnson5863 I really don’t care if they attack Dehlin. He didn’t influence my faith crisis much. Mormon stories and r/exmormon just let me know I wasn’t alone in my questions. my comment was meant to just say that the many people Dehlin interviews is more powerful than his voice. Wow…“charlatans” a bold accusation. I’m interested in your reasons for such an title for Dehlin. Why do you say that?
@@flipjohnson5863 do you mean he traded one dogma for another? I feel like he wants to say that he is a safe space for free thought, but there isn’t much free thinking. He is full speed ahead with his agenda. I personally liked the older Mormon Stories podcasts better, where he had guests on and allowed them to talk and tell their scholarship or their personal stories. He at least attempted to be a journalist of sorts. Now when he has guests on he is reframing their story into his agenda.
Oh brother. They are human. You guys are human. No one is trying lie. Humans just conveniently leave out and promote particular information and ideas that support what they currently believe. If JD is lying, how the hell is the PR department at the church not lying?
@@WARDRADIO what about all the false or unverified accusations levied in that trashy rosebud move you guys made. I’m not saying Dehlin is innocent, but I am sure you’re guilty. And you can claim Kate Kelly said this or that but I stand with Natasha Parker in her defense of John. And the texts he got from rosebud who’s clearly not well. The only reason I keep coming back to this stuff is you keep saying he wrecks homes for profit. And encourages people to leave their wives, but John saved my life and marriage after realizing the church isn’t true. You guys are the biggest hypocrites alive. Aaaaaand cue the ad hominem attack.
I don’t hate watch ya. I disagree with you on a lot of things because the Mormon church is wrong, based on lies, and has hurt people. But I actually enjoy a lot of the show.
We have a tri-part mission statement. 1. Debunking Lies 2. Promoting Interesting and Faith Building Topics, and 3. Having Fun… if #1 is debunking Lies… then debunking the #1 anti-Mormon would be a natural part of the show.
Sorry Kris. Your comments were never deleted. That’s the problem with you anti-Mormons…. You get a narrative in your head and run with it as fact, calling others bad people with bad intentions, and then wonder why folks think engaging with you was a waste of time.
oh boy! don't you remain playing victim. you love yourselves so much as victims you will continue crying wolf for absolutely nothing.Stop it! i listen to you hoping you can do better. Babbling about been mistreated is getting old guys
You guys really act like exmormonism is a religion??? Majority of exmormons don’t give a shit about it all and have distanced themselves faaar from this drama
boring? LOL. And "accuse LDS leaders of abuse and misconduct"?! WOWzers. That's literally what they are saying about Profit John Dehlin about Kate Kelly, rosebud, and others. See the irony? That's the whole point of this video. You just proved it.
I think exmos can handle John Dehlin being other than perfect, but Mos excuse every instance of their own leadership's lying and corruption. They even admit telling the truth "as best they know how" as if truth needs to be qualified in such a manner.
@@coolchapstickbro7820 I don't care about Dehlin. He hosts a show like Cardon does. The guests are often interesting and they make credible accusations about abuses and coverups by LDS leaders. That's more interesting than what some talk show host is doing.
@@coolchapstickbro7820 Dehlin interviewed a couple who found out their Stake President called a pedophile to be Bishop. That's alarming and shows lack of discernment and Priesthood power. That's valuable content and something members should care about and speak against.
@@nathanbigler you know what would be really interesting is that someone got on a pod cast and said Nathan Bigler left the church because he was already going to be excommunicated for beastiality . It’s interesting but may not be true, when people make money off sensational claims its ok to put some heat on them. And John Dehlin profits off bashing the Mormon church which is almost as shameful as why you were excommunicated, people can say anything and yes they lie.
I was talking to a couple of LDS Missionaries the other day. One of them was African American. I told him that when I was a member of the "Mormon " Church in the 70s , guys that looked like him were deemed unworthy to serve a mission , recieve the Priesthood attend the Temple etc. He accused me of being "anti Mormon " and spreading lies . He accused me a being a follower of "Prophet " John Delhin! Even though what I was telling him was True! BTW I am NOT an anti Mormon I don't hate the LDS Church nor its members. I was a member of the LDS Church for 31 years. I don't care for Mormon Stories John Delhin nor any other Ex LDS group. I still have many close family members and friends who are devout members of the LDS Church. I STILL Believe (have faith) in the Good News (Gospel), God , Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit etc. I no longer believe in Joseph Smith's version of the gospel nor the Jehovah's Witness , Roman Catholicism Islamic versions either! You guys Rock!
I love the way apologists defend their religion by lying and then accuse others of lying. Since you are all concerned about honesty why not tell us where Midnight Mormons get their funding.
22:39 - John Dehlin did not cancel me. I received similar criticism, outrage and condemnation from both the exmormon *and* mormon communities. Dehlin hosted a panel discussing the issue at the time and some of his guests had sharp criticisms of me, but that's all. There were others who unfriended me, called for others to unfriend me and asserted that anyone who remained friends with me or expressed support for me were themselves white supremacists - this was both members and nonmembers alike. It was an understandable reaction, particularly in hindsight. Any actions taken against me were not for me criticizing mormon stories or dehlin - they were for the impact of the satire apology. I remain unwelcome in progressive mormon spaces which are usually open to diverse perspectives. Unfortunately, this doesn't fit your thesis in this video, but I appreciate the consideration.
The thesis is that you cannot exist in anti-Mormon cyberspace without kissing the ring of John Dehlin… and I challenged the others to name one who doesn’t kiss his ring that exists with a formidable footprint. I didn’t mean to suggest you were “cancelled” for challenging him… I’ll have to go back and see what exactly was said. Lol… I wouldn’t put misspeaking past me… it’s a little crazy running 4 microphone inputs, a video switcher, a mixing board, and 3 softwares simultaneously while talking.
Evil Apostate is hilarious. I love the deconstruction you bring to the discussions, Jonathan. I'm a nevermo that loves exmos peeling back the veil. Some are better than others, but they all genuinely share their experiences in a manner I find compelling and, more often than not, entertaining. I feel the LDS leadership could/should be doing the work of Midnight Mormons and going head to head with their detractors, but that doesn’t serve their interests. They prefer to remain in their collective bubbles, surrounded by sycophants that buy into their invented nonsense. Be well.
Streeter, that letter was amazing. I don’t understand the backlash you got as you exposed one the main problems with the church. That it’s incapable of apologizing.
@@WARDRADIO I exist in exmormon space and I’ve been blocked or banned from nearly everything Dehlinian.
I recently commented on their Facebook post about thrive.
I asked “is any of the criticism you receive legitimate or is it all just smears and attacks?”
Banned.
Hi Jon
John Dehlin and Adam Schiff have never been seen in the same room.
Suggestion: spirit world and near death experiences! Please!
14:49 - Kwaku with an excellent British peasant. Well done.
These videos are phenomenal
Is John Dehlin related to Whoopi Goldberg. That's exactly how she presents her "news". "Someone said" and "we're hearing that..."
While I think that Dehlin has done a great deal of good for those going through a faith crisis over the years, and some of the interviews and discussions he's had on his channel are absolutely brilliant, videos like this one give me pause. I don't see the same ill-intent in Dehlin as you folks do - he seems sincere and genuine to me - but I've also never really interacted with him.
But it also seems like Mormon Stories Podcast has become more tabloid in its content lately. I think they overplayed and misrepresented Brad Wilcox for views, for example. I also think there's quite a bit of Wokeism in the modern exmo movement and that concerns me too. Many in the exmormon community look to me like they may be unwittingly trading their godly religion for a secular one.
To be fair to Dehlin, when I expressed this concern in a comment on one of his videos (Episode 1531), he immediately responded with an invitation for me to come on MSP - presumably to explain my position. I later ducked the invitation as it didn't feel right at the time - but maybe I shouldn't have. (I did mention the invitation in my interview on the Sacred Symbols Playstation podcast regarding my own CZcams channel and experience with Cancel Culture and the press.)
Streeter is freakin' awesome though.
Interesting… reach out.
Everyone has lied a time or few in their life. It's part of the human way of trying to control life or how people view you. If lies aren't discussed or brought to light they become bigger. At any rate if people solely rely on John, midnight, or the church for spreading truth only makes you stuck in their reality not your own. Luv luv
sure lucifer keep believing that
Cardon, l stand with you on Pro Life!!! It is so great to see a man stand up for what is right. I love y'all's show and look forward to every episode! Keep it up and God bless 🌿
Why you guys delete comments?
I'm just going to go ahead and say that I don't really have a problem with the exmos being homewrecked. You get what you ask for when you go down that road.
Fact
Are you a radio station?
Yes. In more ways than one too :)
Uh oh watch out guys kwaku is wearing a playboy shirt and doesn’t wear his garments! Bad boy coming thru!
bill reel is a swinger? this is news that I need to read about.
Well, Exmo Lex made a video getting mad at people who disagreed with the church's pro-mask policy, and then made a 45 minute video with another person, both without masks, in her car.
She seems somewhat stuck up to me.
Masks are sooooo BS.
Have Dehlin on the show and prep all his contradictions. Confront him.
The issue. Dehlin isn't man enough to do that.
JD is going to loose his voice at some point
Is Kweku drinking coffee?🤫😉
I love the exmo tears that come streaming in to these videos.
Cardon said he doesn’t like looking things up in real time but does anyway.
Take a drink!
This is funny.
@@WARDRADIO I love your show! You guys are great!
What flavor of Kool Aid is John Dehlin handing out? Must be good cause the ex MO’s are drinking it up.
Brad is best of three 😇😇😂😂
He's called the diplomat on their site. He's fantastic.
So many good takes on all of this. Profit John Dehlin...I've been saying that for about two years now, and glad to see it's sticking! Probably one of my favorite vids so far calling everyone out, Profit John Dehlin, ex-mormon minions, themselves, hypocrisy or lies, misogyny and patriarchial is more damaging in ex-mormon groups than the actual church, pointing out Kwakus maskless parties, Cardon's $25 fine for bringing a knife on a plane, etc. etc.
How is patriarchy worse in exmormonism? It’s taught over the pulpit in Mormonism. “Young girls become pornography by wearing cloths in which they feel comfortable,” that’s not something ExMormons said.
@@bradensorensen966 Your quote is nearly a strawman. First, that's not the quote directly. First use the actual quote, “Young women, please understand that if you dress immodestly, you are magnifying this problem by becoming pornography to some of the men who see you.” BIG Difference in what you are quoting. And second, there are MANY never-mo's and christian and non-christian folks that believe in modesty. Do you look at pornography? If so, what type of clothing are the women wearing in these videos? I agree that just by what you are wearing doesn't make you porn - but it does MAGNIFY the problem for some men and to consider, perhaps, changing your outfit. That's all what the context is. Also, have you ever gone to a public pool and watch all of the young and old, single and married men, looking at women? Next time you do, take a look next time and tell me what a lot of them are looking at. Also, watch their eyes when a teenage girl walks past them specifically...then tell me what they do. I'll tell you that a lot of members and non-members DO look. Ask any member or non-member lady on dating apps, what the #1 question to them asked is. Think you'll be suprised by their answer? There's a reason why members (and non-members) are told "over the pulpit" to "shun pornography" to the men, and to "wear modest clothing" for the women. What do former members do - let's be reminded of Bill Reels (consentual) sexual exploits, NewNameNoah's tango with Christy...what's her name...trying to get a lesbian sex video filmed in the temple, Profit John Dehlin's "abuse" of some women, and so on.
@@bradensorensen966 Your quote isn't a quote. HAHHAA. So ridiculous. Are you talking about Pres. Oaks talk? that is soooo not what he said, but keep up the lies. Studies show that at least 75% of men have porn addictions. That's just addictions. How many of that other 25% view porn but it isn't an addiction? Now add in that porn is changing men's minds to view women as objects to be used as tools (that is what one study found). Now, look at how much our society sexualizes EVERYTHING. And you see a problem with men telling girls - Hey be careful with what you wear. If you wear something that shows lots of skin men start to look at you differently. WTF is wrong with that. IT"S TRUE!! Ppl no longer want to hear truth because it cuts into their behavior and tells them they need to change. You are one of those people.
Rumor has it women can dress modestly and it’s still a problem for me. True? What’s not okay is when women are the ones at fault. Men have to own their own sin. It’s not a womens job to fix that. Yes modesty is best but at the end of the day, you have to deal with the world around you And those who don’t live the same. Can’t blame a women for “causing a man to stumble”. Isn’t that what Adam did? “The women you gave me made me eat of the fruit”.
Good to see you boys living rent free in dehlins head. Whatever you're doing, keep doing it. Keep it based boys
John has got to constantly find or create new issues, crises and shock items to keep his clicks coming in. He is a drama queen. Suits his purpose. I understand his next podcast is “ The War in Ukraine, why the LDS Church is to blame “.
Preach !
😂 Nailed it!
😂😂
John. If you’re reading this.
We promise, promise you, you aren’t that important to the church to care about. No one loses sleep over you. It’s not that deep. Lol
Keep it up boys!!!
John Dehlin would love to talk to the 12 but the 12 would always refer him to his Stake President because he's not important.
I mean, he’s important enough for you to comment though!
This
@@davesn90 His problem isn’t with the 12, it’s with Jesus. He’s gotta sort that out first. His bishop and stake president can assist him with that.
@@aprescoups4593 Exactly! Just important enough to reminded how unimportant he is. Lol
The guy runs a business of tearing down Faith. Not sure how I ought to be giving him any credit lol
Look at my beard and say that again lol 🧔♂️
Interesting that critics of the church of Jesus Christ have often used the primary song “Follow the Prophet” to mock both so called ‘blind cultish obedience’ and the idea the church is ‘for Profit’.
Ironically, all we need to do is “Follow the profit” (ie follow the money flows) of the loudest critics like John D and we see their motives exposed. We see them as they really are.
Thank you to Midnight Mormons for both following the Prophet and for ‘following the profits’ of the critics. Great podcast as always!
From Australia 🇦🇺
But you could say the same thing about the church, which rakes in billions of $$ every year.
apparently following the prophet is optional these days.
@@yogurtking9540 not at all. JD is an individual profiting off his religious endeavours. Members don’t make bank from church service and worship. Not even comparable.
@@Heartsinmelody yikes, better not look up how much general authorities make as a “modest stipend”
It’s insane how much of the donations that his org receives goes right into his pocket.
Also, in a post a few days ago, he presented it as if he has other paid employees, yet, per his tax return he has no other employees. In fact, I have read that he makes the people he is “helping” work for free and then takes ownership of their work they do on any social media outlet.
I don’t understand why Im so invested, other than I think he is a fraud and using people when they are at their weakest. It’s just wrong.
Something about him always irked me. Now I see why
Is John Dehlin even a doctor or is he a doctor like Jill Biden?
So go on his show and talk about it out in the open. Or invite him on to your show. I bet he’ll accept.
He’s too scared. I’ve offered many times. He’s a coward.
@@WARDRADIO you’ve offered to talk about truth claims of the church or accusations of sexual assault?
@@yogurtking9540 when John Dehlin says he wants to hear from critics he means it exactly as much as the bishop does when he asks “if anyone is opposed please show it by the same sign.”
Believe me, countless serious and sincere people have taken him up on his offer. He just ignores them.
Yep… he won’t do it… sorry Guys, but your prophet is not the brave intellectual warrior you think he is.
@@WARDRADIO sorry, I like to make thinks very clear. Are you saying if JD invited you on to his show to have a real discussion about the truth claims of the church, you’d accept the invitation.
I want to Thank Shawn McCraney for leading me into The Restored Church...and Kwaku lol !
I am so sorry you got cyber bulled whats next toilet swishy. How will you recover from this
John Delirious, the super anti-Mormon cult leader prophet is the king of using the word “super“. Everything is super this and super that. He’s always super excited about that super interesting interview he’s about to do on the super ex Mormon person that was super lied to in their former super church.
Anyway, I’m glad you guys do what you do, Cardon, Kwaku and Brad, you guys are the very best at defending our Lord and Savior. To hell with those who can’t wrap their head around the truth. Thank you and may God bless you in all you do!
And you can't name a single thing Dehlin has said about the Mormon church that isn't true.
@@mtddmtdd1 😂😂😂
@@mtddmtdd1 Actually, I can, and the list is long. First of all he claims the LDS church is a fraud and that it doesn’t contain any truth, that’s simply not true. He claims that all or most of the teachings of the LDS church/Mormon church our false. He pushes his opinions and assumptions on others as truth, therefore misleading people intentionally. He claims that God does not exist, but that’s incorrect. He claims that Jesus Christ is not the son of God, but that’s also incorrect. He claims we don’t need a Savior, that’s also incorrect. He also claims that it’s very unlikely that“The whole Jesus story“ took place. He said that Joseph Smith was not a prophet, he said Joseph Smith didn’t translate the gold plates, he said that the Book of Mormon is not true, and he also said that Joseph Smith had 38 wives. None of those things are true. He’s also claimed that Midnight Mormons are paid by the church to defend the gospel. That’s also not true. And if you were paying attention to this video you would have seen that John Delerium claims that the Mormon church took his TikTok down. That’s also not true.
It’s pretty obvious that Mr. Delerium is super surrounded by a lot of untrue claims.
I’m super excited to let you know all of this, but the thing I’m most “super excited“ about is finding the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
Everyone, stop saying the word super! No superman, supermarket, super-foods, none!!! Damn it...lol
‘A meme war is the best kind of war.’
Gladamir Sputin (circa 1952)
Why, support playboy on your Mormon channel?
We argued about that in a podcast. Kwaku thinks the brand has evolved out of its seedy past, but Brad and I hate it, but I think he does it to try and be “edgy”.
@@WARDRADIO 😂😂😂
@@WARDRADIO it’s funny too because I guarantee Playboy profits off the porn they air on their Playboy channel. Kwaku is a hypocrite 😂😂
Commenting before watching because I want to discuss what’s up with all the new temples not having Moroni, and also looking very phallic. Who is making these horrible decisions? How do we say no to a design- answer we can’t because we are stupid peons.grrrr…
Yo mum 😅
The new temples not having Moroni on them is very significant. It is not a simple ‘design choice.’
By Christian standards in any denomination, dehlin, would be held in in possible accountability for his words and actions for simple common Christian standards, as most of the people on his site. He's got issues about tons of things and it's easy to see. He will be revealed to being a fool by his own hand.
Cardon is not that conservative. He’s moderately conservative at best.
Trippin balls bruh
“We’re not a cult you are!”
I watch essentially all your guys’ videos on YT. I don’t care to defend John Dehlin on every topic. I’ve been active on the exmormon subreddit in the past. So there is at least one non believer that doesn’t bend the knee. Don’t give John more credit than he deserves.
Lol. Ok.
@@WARDRADIO none of that was meant to be sarcastic
"Boomer" anti - mormons?
At least JD doesn’t spend 30 minutes trying to discredit you guys. Because that would be boring. Like this
Yet here you are…
Yet here you are…
Can I ask a serious question? If it’s boring, why are you watching it? I unsubscribe to channels that I get bored with. I move on. I run away from content I find boring or unfulfilling. Why do you watch this? What drives you to stay tuned to this terribly boring content? It’s as if you just can’t leave the church alone, either after leaving it or hearing about it. 😢
@@dcarts5616 I didn’t even watch the whole video. So I would say I left it alone pretty good 😂
@@josephjanson4753 but why watch at all? You are still here. Replying and commenting. You said it was boring, why stay? (I didn’t watch all of this episode either, I find JD and his ilk detestable so usually don’t waste my time when their faces/names show up unless I’m REALLY bored lol) BTW, are you a member of or ex-member of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS church?
I'm fine with people not liking John. But his guests, who he gives the vast majority of screen time to, are AWESOME!
Some of them are.
I’m not sure that anyone who would join a conman who allegedly cheats on his wife and with allegedly young women is worth anybody’s time. Second hand (and a firsthand account in the alleged allegations) accounts from so and so tell us JD is an allegedly unhinged person. If the model fits for JD’s stance on and many of those of the exmo cult (community of ex mos )of JS, so it does for JD. Please, anyone listening, leave the cult of JD.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, as they say.
I feel like John chains his guests to a chair, so they don't run away from his 4 hour interviews...🤣
@@davesn90 what gives you this impression?
Perhaps. But it seems like he feeds off of their grief and pain for content in order to push his agenda. Very messed up.
It's pronounced Jeremy Wunnels.
Another Hypocrite Mormon Moment. Making fun of a speech impediment.
@Joseph the Wanderer Doesn't effect me. Maybe Jeremy. But it makes those that behave this way HYPOCRITES. UnChristian too.
Exmo's don't have a statue of John Dehlin, a temple with his mural on the wall, and a song with praises to him. Mormons have that with Joseph Smith. We are not the same.
"Exmo's don't have ... a song with praises to him"
John, give em hell - Tyler Glenn
@@dylanwilliams2202 thank you so much for the song. I have never heard about this before so I appreciate it. After listening to the song multiple times I think it fits the first part of the definition but not the second. Merriam-Webster dictionary: to express a favorable judgment of : commend. 2 : to glorify (a god or saint) especially by the attribution of perfections. I listened to the artists Ted talk and some interviews. It sounds like he left because of the 2015 anti gay revalation that allegedly came from God. That revalation destroyed his testimony and his faith in God. Sounds like he was glad there was support groups for people like him not that he thought John Delin was a saint.
John cheated on his wife (much like Joseph) however I condemn that John did that. Can you do the same about Joseph? I do not deify John like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does with Joseph Smith Jr.
@@coffeedrinkingisnotasin6049 "Can you say the same about Joseph Smith?"
I believe polygamy was a commandment from God and Joseph Smith was a prophet but I do condemn Joseph Smith for lying to his wife about polygamy. There were alot of thing surrounding polygamy that Joseph Smith could have done better or differently. I also believe that exmo's distort or lie about polygamy too.
The Church doesn't deify Joseph Smith. There can be months where Joseph Smith's name isn't mentioned in church. Do some people within the church take praising him a little to far where it would be considered worship? Sure, but that is idol worship and is against the commandments (even if you don't believe in them).
I wouldn't say exmos deify John Dehlin but he would definitely be considered the exmo prophet and the CES Letter would be your Bible.
I was going to say this in my first comment and decided against it but because of that comment I am saying it now.
I do agree with you though about us not being the same. A huge difference is that exmo's hate us, want to break our faith and want us to be just has miserable as them, while most of us feel sorry for them and want them to be happy. I know you watched this channels latest video (we had to go to sensitivity training), which is how I found this comment, so you know of the vandalism that has been done to members from exmo's (yes, I did see you say that you didn't agree with it) and the love letters by Jeremy Runnells. There is also Newnamenoah wanting to sneak into a temple to film a lesbian adult video, him and Zelph trespassing on multiple temple grounds to try and start something to play the victim, John Delhin saying that he would attack Dallin Oaks, and more examples. The one time I went to a general conference in person there were people outside protesting it. When the Salt Lake Temple has its open house I can almost guarantee you that there is going to be issues with protesting and/or vandalism in the temple (I hope I am wrong on this). If you go on TikTok there are countless videos made about our ordinances and people saying how we are a cult. There are TV shows that are being made to make us look bad. People writing in Books of Mormon something like "this is fake, CESletter(dot)org" (technically would be considered vandalism). And that not getting into the mental and emotional damage that John Delhin and the exmo subreddit causes people who have family members who are still in the Church. Half the stories on the subreddit don't make sense and sound fake, the other half are stories that most members would be shocked happened. Use a poorly researched book(CES Letter) to say we are false even though most of it's claims don't stand up to scrutiny. (Funny story, I actually read the CES Letter before I fully read the Book of Mormon and I still could see how badly researched it was. Everything that bothered me was debunked with my own research or wasn't what was being represented in the letter). Need I continue?
This last general conference they talked about being a peacemaker, being respectful of other peoples beliefs and that contention is not of God and to love everyone. And that is generally how most of the church members are.
So you are right there is no comparison.
@@dylanwilliams2202 "I wouldn't say exmo's deify John Dehlin but he would definitely be considered the exmo prophet and the CES letter would be your Bible." Pew research said 58% of ex-mormons are unaffiliated after they leave. It is true that i am agnostic and don't want to be associated with organized religion. John Dehlin is not my prophet if i picked one it would be RFM, lol. The Tanner's left the church and still believe in the actual Bible. The CES letter is not their Bible the Bible is their Bible. Shawn Mccraney who hosted the RFM vs Midnight Mormons debate left Mormonism and the Bible is his Bible. Just as you feel Mormons are misrepresented I feel you are doing the same with exmormon's. You are using extreme examples of of those who have done the church wrong. As you mentioned I don't agree with vandalism. I don't agree with how New Name Noah who tried to make porn in a temple. I don't like watching Zelph on the Shelf because they are too liberal for me even though they are my age. I am glad nuancehoe left Mormon Stories as she made it harder to watch. What if I used extreme examples of Mormons and I said they are radicalized so they are bad. I am sure you get annoyed when Mountain Meadows Massacre is brought up as an example. Or when Hulu shows the Lafferty brother's being radicalized. What about the Fundamentalist Mormons (you know the ones who really stick on to the actual teachings of Joseph Smith). You don't like when that is associated with the church. You used a few bad apples. I am saying the mainstream Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints over all does deify Joseph Smith. The murals, hymns about him, and statues are excessive. People get on the pulpit at church and give testimonies about Joseph Smith. The first discussions with the missionaries are about Joseph Smith. I can go online to the lds bookstore right now and buy a mini statue of Joseph Smith Jr for my home.
"There were alot of things surrounding polygamy that Joseph Smith could have done better or differently. I also believe exmo's distort or lie about polygamy too."
This feels like the socialism could work if it was implemented correctly argument. It doesn't work, it hasn't work, we should never try to make it work. It is despicable and still practices today as a result of Joseph Smith Jr. "By their fruits ye shall know them." Is it practiced in this life by mainstream members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Not in this life but the next (according to theology). Is it still practiced on the Earth today because of Joseph Smith Jr? - most definitely. God would know this would be the result and would have chose to implement it anyway (according to church theology). I would also love to know how exmo's misrepresented polygamy. I know church members who misrepresented polygamy to me by saying it was about caring for widow's and there wasn't enough men and lies like that.
@@dylanwilliams2202 no I do not hate members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My mother, sister, dead father, aunts, uncles, grandparents are still members. Some members are some of the best people I know. Just because I don't agree with your theology doesn't mean I hate you 🥰
Way to tell the truth . I'm so tired of these I hate the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints Haters that try to bring down the trying people of the church. I can't watch them anymore It's a bad taste and hurts my soul. So you keep on tell the truth about them, Please.
The Glory of God is Intelligence? But don't inform anyone about the problems and logical questions that follow, about Joseph Smith's Church?
@@krismurphy7711 If the comments on this video or the video itself *offends* you, or you simply don’t like it.. then click off and go watch a different video..?
@@s.w.t.m.t.s.u2414 Sorry, there is thing called Free Speech. If these Smart Mouths get to gang up in PUBLIC and have their say, then I, and You, are entitled to our Comments in response. Unanswered attacks tend to stand as factual or accurate. These Mouths have set a Standard and I am applying it to Joseph Smith, in order to make my point.
@@krismurphy7711 Yes, of course we have free speech, and I was never saying you don’t. I would say I was giving you a prudent idea for *yourself*, instead of jerking yourself in a comment section of a small podcast channel while being able to achieve, well, absolutely nothing.
It’s simply hapless that you’re in a comment section, hating, with the purpose of hating. You’re the epitome of anti-mormon culture, and the fact you do this in your free time is even more hapless. Go against their arguments and evidences in this video and prove them wrong, go ahead go ahead.
These ‘smart mouths’ are going in public no more than John Dehlin, especially if by public you mean online. In fact, John Dehlin has *MORE* of stance online than the Midnight Mormons Pocast.
Out of curiosity, what even *is* your *point*? If your meaningless presence in this comment section is a part of it… well.. I suppose I’d just leave that there and would hope you come to realize what you’re doing in this comment section is worthless and not even worth your time.
@@krismurphy7711if you honestly looked at every truthful source you would find joeseph did nothing wrong and was following gods commandments to a T
Is the Issue about John Dehlin or Joseph Smith? What is interesting about THIS video...substitute Joseph Smith for John and use that same standard to determine character, veracity, etc. Using these Guys logic, Joseph Smith would have been found to be much more of a liar, fraud, cheat, etc etc. These Guys attack John for much less than Joseph Smith is documented to have done and said.
@@wes2176 Like I said, if you use the "logic" of these Guys and applied it to Joseph Smith, Smith would end up more harshly judged than Dehlin. Ironic.
@@wes2176 Obviously you do, and thats enough for me.
I guess as long as John Dehlin isn’t at least as bad as Joseph Smith he shouldn’t be criticized for anything he does.
That’s rock solid logic.
@@flipjohnson5863 Lol. Dehlin would have to really work to surpass Joseph.
@@krismurphy7711 so what? Is that really your bar? Bad behavior is excusable just as long as Joseph was worse?!?
You’re making the midnight Mormon’s case for them here.
You Guys are acting petty. Use the Prophets example vs thus teenage attitude. Turn the other cheek.
I can’t believe you would accuse someone of making up being molested - you guys disgust me the way you talk about people, put them in a box.
I don’t care what side you’re on let’s be respectful.
Who is the “they” you’re even talking about? There is honest people searching for the truth looking at the information that is out there.
You guys really have legitimately caught John Dehlin in a goof. But you guys need to be more respectful of questioning and disbelieving former members.
Fair enough.
So your not going to atack his scholarship? How he is wrong with things he says about the BOM and the church? Your just going to attack him? hmmmmmm
Being a scholar is sign a that your welling to do some work that satisfies college professors. The fact that he lies, is a sign that John dalin is a liar
I agree with u Paul. He takes the most extreme cases and exploits them and the ex-mos they have on his show.
Cult members.
11:45 That is what I was thinking before I heard this part of the video. I have to give John credit there, he has done one of the things that people rarely have been able to do. He has created a situation that has actually united some believing members of the church and some former members in this area. That is not a simple accomplishment. 😂
There is so much unintended irony in your videos. You're attacking John Dehlin while denying that you attack John Dehlin.
You ignorant 🤣
Better yet, let's apply these Guys critique of Dehlin and apply to Joseph Smith. Result?
They’re making fun of him because Dehlin literally BEGS to be called out and made fun of. He lies and cries and whines like a snot-nosed kid on the playground nobody wants to play with because he’s always pretending to get hurt for attention. Dehlin is the one constantly ATTACKING these guys and the Church with actual smear campaigns. HUGE difference.
John Dehlin is a good man, but definitely has a big ego and obviously isn't afraid to ruffle feathers. At the end of the day, his work has exposed the spiritual bankruptcy of Satan's little church in Utah so I have to assume he's doing God's work.
Yeah, ruining families and ripping apart marriages is awesome. Good point
You didn't watch the video until the end, did you? Hahahaha
Kwaku paints with a very large brush and shows he has a very distorted view of exmormons. "Ex Mormonism is more patriarchal and misogynistic than the current church leadership." Feel free to hate on JD but you look silly when you make a statement like this. And a better way to start would have been "This is how John Dehlin lies to you!" Not "They".
The Young Guys have how many years within the LDS Church? Didn't live through the 1978 Debacle. How old when Prop 8 happened in CA? Were they around before the Internet and the New Church Openess?
@@krismurphy7711 they are assisting in creating the new openness.
When I first left the Mormon church I enjoyed many of the Mormon Stories Podcasts, but I never liked John. There is a long list of annoyingly stupid things John has done for attention, but when he called the cops due to perceived threats over the Inglourious Bastards knock off, I asked myself "how can anyone take this guy seriously?" I think he has been around so long that he has to come up with new over the top content and he doesn't mind fabricating Drama for clicks. He is a drama queen. I am glad to have both the cult of John/Thrive and the cult of Mormonism out of my life. Both promise happiness and truth, but instead deliver misery and sorrow.
Only one, I still find Mormonism interesting and enjoy most of Mormon friends and family. The other side I can do without.
There are millions of members that are happy and believe they have found truth which makes you wrong. If you found misery and sorrow, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it had to do with you. Sorry.
People find joy in lots of things that doesn’t make those who don’t find joy in the wrong. The real question is what in religion makes people happy, and does religion have a monopoly on that? I believe that what makes people happy in religion has nothing to do with the religion, but are things the religion uses to manipulate people. Community is the biggest example. To be honest, the misery I found in religion had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with control and manipulation from leadership. Once I got out from that my life got better. It was not me.
@@derrekchild60 I understand your point, but when I feel controlled or manipulated in my life or in the church, I have to take a step back and ask myself… “am I really being controlled or manipulated? Or am I just not setting boundaries?” No one makes me go to church. No one makes me pay my tithing. No one made me marry my husband. No one makes me accept church callings. I can always say “no” to any of these things. If I feel manipulated or controlled, I have to ask myself… is the problem them or me?
I did that, and I left. What I have found is everything positive about the church can be found outside of it, everything unique about about is questionable at best. For example eternal families, most religions just assume you will be with your loved ones on the other side. Many religions/beliefs believe one’s deceased ancestors may even intervene to help loved ones on earth. Mormons believe families are only possible through temple ceremonies. The deference is Mormons use enteral families, more specifically the fear of losing an eternal family, to create control. When a child chooses to leave the church, they are ruining the eternal family, and this causes great loss to Mormon parents. It causes pain and stress that otherwise would not exist. I have seen this first hand many times as I have seen many families have loved ones leave the church. The temple is another example. To make it to heaven you must partake of the temple ordnances. To gain entry to the temple you must pay a full tithing. People are literally paying to get into heaven. I know people who have written big checks just to attend weddings. Most people that I know don’t really like the temple. They find it weird and boring, but you would never know that by the way they talk about it at church or in testimony meeting. Missions are similar. Most missionaries I know and I served with struggle and don’t really like their mission, but claim it to be the best time of their life. My experience is everything unique about the church is not great, and everything good about the church can be found elsewhere and has little to do with the church. I always wondered why apostles have to lie to make points. Holland has lied multiple times but that didn’t stop people from spreading those lies and claiming to know through the spirit those lies were true. Nelson tells a story of a plane catching fire that never happened, the story of the navel ship shared by a 70 in conference never happened, Paul H Dunn fabricated stories, and all of these have been repeated by members as truths they know through the Holy Ghost. Point is the church will say and do anything to keep members coming, many times dishonestly. It is them.
Y’all are way more ecumenical than MSP.
Thank you. What makes you say that?
@@WARDRADIO oh maybe simply because you’ll actually talk to individuals with opposing views??? Lol. I was all up in the chat for their most recent “thrive die live” bs and not one acknowledgment.
@@WARDRADIO there are two specific ways that you’re better than JD:
1. You’re willing to talk to your critics.
2. You admit that you’re doing religion. He pretends like he’s not. You admit that it’s a faith. He lies and says his beliefs are purely rational.
@@drakosophos Oh hey! You're here too? Haven't seen ya in a while, hope you're well!
@@diamonddavemctv Hey man! Yeah, MM is entertaining af. Hope you’re doing well too!
what? John brings so much value to the exmormon community. he's awesome.
What value?
@@flipjohnson5863 if you have to ask then that's probably something that would be good for you to think about. ask better questions get better answers. What value would someone bring by talking about something that is traumatic to so many people. I'm glad you midnight mormons aren't effected. there is obviously a pick and choose way to stay in mormonism that I wasn't aware of. I wish I could have been in you guys sunday school class growing up but alas I grew up in black and white mormon absolutist culture that didn't allow for that but did allowed for the mormon label. Midnight mormons is an awesome name. One halloween we were the mormon mafia. Livin on the edge! very cool imagery. I was told that fighting and confrontationalist behavior could get you exed. change is good.
@@gordonzio what’s special about John dehlin when it comes to all of that?
Couldn’t people get the support without all the hypocrisy?
@@flipjohnson5863 well I reckon they could...and do. there are a lot of good youtubers out there. I think we are all hypocrites to some degree as we learn and grow but I havent seen anything flagrantly hypocritcal from him. I really believe he is doing a lot of good. I hope he makes lots of money from it too. Id buy a mug cup from him. nothing wrong with that. you guys are almost breaking 3k subs. hope you can monetize what you are doing as well at some point. Im sure you can enlighten me further on why I should hate this man.
@@gordonzio “they do some good” is true of any number of people and organizations. The church “does some good” too but that’s no defense against valid criticism against it. It’s just deflection. I’m fact, it’s exactly how the church responds to valid criticism.
looks like this youtube channel is in love with John Delhin
If you don’t like it then go find a different channel. 🤷♂️
every cause, organization, church, ideology etc. need opposition. I learned that somewhere
@@rickyricky4738 Don’t know where you learned it and I’d argue it’s inaccurate. On top of that, why do you feel entitled to do the opposing?
Are your viewers as obsessed with John Dehlin as you guys are? Like it seems like every other video is about the guy or at least mentions him.
Lol. He attacks is a lot so we end up defending ourselves a lot.
@@WARDRADIO Are you saying Dehlin is attacking you guys personally the same amount that you attack him? Or do you mean your religion?
@@wes2176 you’re… you’re actually comparing this weird internet drama to the Nazi persecution of Jews????? Please don’t.
@@wes2176 Are you being serious? Like honestly.
@@wes2176 Sounds like you got some sort of persecution complex if you think mean words on the internet or people’s opinions differing your own are the same as the systematic execution of millions of people. I’m honestly shocked that anyone would believe that… like you’re either trolling or just lack empathy for what Jews and others went thru under Nazi rule.
Hate crime doesn't exist
John Dehlin: spends 15 years and 1500 podcasts unraveling all the deep problems in Mormonism by interviewing the most respected experts in Mormon history. His work, and others, triggers the church to release the gospel topic essays and begin the Joseph smith papers project. The explosion of knowledge of problematic church history led church historian marlin jenson to say “not since Kirtland” has there been so many people leaving the church. Thousands struggle with faith crisis and many leave.
Midnight Mormons: John Dehlin lied about some internet stuff and had an affair.
*** seriously… Dehlin is such a small small part of what’s triggering thousands of lds to struggle with the very real problems with church history. ExMOS don’t need Dehlin. The information is all there. That’s why an army of people on tik tok can easily make content that cuts deep in foundational issues in BOM, BofAbraham, polygamy, changes to temple ceremonies, racism. All that information is out there and sources can be verified. Proving John Dehlin a flawed person does not make the mountain of church problems go away.
@@wes2176 you talk all the time and say nothing. Maybe instead of posting 50 times a day… you should actually study up on the historicity problems with the Book of Mormon, translation problems with book of Abraham, problems with polygamy, racism in scripture and prophetic teachings, changes to temple ordinances, deletions and alterations of doctrine and covenants, multiple first vision accounts, lack of evidence for priesthood restoration.
I’ve been an exmormon and an atheist for 20 years. The church isn’t true. John Dehlin is a hypocrite, a charlatan and a hack.
@@flipjohnson5863 I really don’t care if they attack Dehlin. He didn’t influence my faith crisis much. Mormon stories and r/exmormon just let me know I wasn’t alone in my questions. my comment was meant to just say that the many people Dehlin interviews is more powerful than his voice. Wow…“charlatans” a bold accusation. I’m interested in your reasons for such an title for Dehlin. Why do you say that?
@@matthewfullmer3739 in short, he’s just doing church again, but pretending he’s not.
@@flipjohnson5863 do you mean he traded one dogma for another? I feel like he wants to say that he is a safe space for free thought, but there isn’t much free thinking. He is full speed ahead with his agenda. I personally liked the older Mormon Stories podcasts better, where he had guests on and allowed them to talk and tell their scholarship or their personal stories. He at least attempted to be a journalist of sorts. Now when he has guests on he is reframing their story into his agenda.
Oh brother. They are human. You guys are human. No one is trying lie. Humans just conveniently leave out and promote particular information and ideas that support what they currently believe. If JD is lying, how the hell is the PR department at the church not lying?
Side note, you should really get in touch with Marti from the Where Will You Go podcast! ;)
And set all those exmos straight.
John is lying about a smear campaign about him. Then you go on to smear him for 30 minutes 😂😂
Antimormons deserve nothing
@@legacy756 There is a difference between anti Mormon and anti lies.
Defending yourself from false accusations and providing evidence aren’t smears… (speaking for myself).
@@bradensorensen966 antimormons=liars
@@WARDRADIO what about all the false or unverified accusations levied in that trashy rosebud move you guys made. I’m not saying Dehlin is innocent, but I am sure you’re guilty. And you can claim Kate Kelly said this or that but I stand with Natasha Parker in her defense of John. And the texts he got from rosebud who’s clearly not well. The only reason I keep coming back to this stuff is you keep saying he wrecks homes for profit. And encourages people to leave their wives, but John saved my life and marriage after realizing the church isn’t true. You guys are the biggest hypocrites alive. Aaaaaand cue the ad hominem attack.
I don’t hate watch ya. I disagree with you on a lot of things because the Mormon church is wrong, based on lies, and has hurt people. But I actually enjoy a lot of the show.
Lol. Don’t worry Braden, you are a regular here.
There is so much obsession about this random CZcamsr on this channel. Who cares? I almost feel like there is more disrespect on here than over there.
We have a tri-part mission statement. 1. Debunking Lies 2. Promoting Interesting and Faith Building Topics, and 3. Having Fun… if #1 is debunking Lies… then debunking the #1 anti-Mormon would be a natural part of the show.
WHO would you trust with your 14 year old Daughter, John Dehlin or Joseph Smith??? (second time I've posted this question. First time it was deleted.)
Sorry Kris. Your comments were never deleted. That’s the problem with you anti-Mormons…. You get a narrative in your head and run with it as fact, calling others bad people with bad intentions, and then wonder why folks think engaging with you was a waste of time.
oh boy! don't you remain playing victim. you love yourselves so much as victims you will continue crying wolf for absolutely nothing.Stop it! i listen to you hoping you can do better. Babbling about been mistreated is getting old guys
You guys really act like exmormonism is a religion??? Majority of exmormons don’t give a shit about it all and have distanced themselves faaar from this drama
@@wes2176 it’s not a religion until we have our own GC lol 😂
Exmormonism isn’t a religion.
Dehlilian exmormonism is very religious.
The fact that you’re here in this comment section, says that you *do* give a shit about the drama.
@@s.w.t.m.t.s.u2414 The drama is bs I come here for entertainment purposes only
@@wes2176 how do you leave something alone that took away your whole life, family and friends??
Your Dehlin obsession is very boring. You should cover some of his guests, the ones who accuse LDS leaders of abuse and misconduct.
boring? LOL. And "accuse LDS leaders of abuse and misconduct"?! WOWzers. That's literally what they are saying about Profit John Dehlin about Kate Kelly, rosebud, and others. See the irony? That's the whole point of this video. You just proved it.
I think exmos can handle John Dehlin being other than perfect, but Mos excuse every instance of their own leadership's lying and corruption. They even admit telling the truth "as best they know how" as if truth needs to be qualified in such a manner.
@@coolchapstickbro7820 I don't care about Dehlin. He hosts a show like Cardon does. The guests are often interesting and they make credible accusations about abuses and coverups by LDS leaders. That's more interesting than what some talk show host is doing.
@@coolchapstickbro7820 Dehlin interviewed a couple who found out their Stake President called a pedophile to be Bishop. That's alarming and shows lack of discernment and Priesthood power. That's valuable content and something members should care about and speak against.
@@nathanbigler you know what would be really interesting is that someone got on a pod cast and said Nathan Bigler left the church because he was already going to be excommunicated for beastiality . It’s interesting but may not be true, when people make money off sensational claims its ok to put some heat on them. And John Dehlin profits off bashing the Mormon church which is almost as shameful as why you were excommunicated, people can say anything and yes they lie.
I was talking to a couple of LDS Missionaries the other day.
One of them was African American.
I told him that when I was a member of the "Mormon " Church in the 70s , guys that looked like him were deemed unworthy to serve a mission , recieve the Priesthood attend the Temple etc.
He accused me of being "anti Mormon " and spreading lies .
He accused me a being a follower of "Prophet " John Delhin!
Even though what I was telling him was True!
BTW
I am NOT an anti Mormon I don't hate the LDS Church nor its members.
I was a member of the LDS Church for 31 years.
I don't care for Mormon Stories John Delhin nor any other Ex LDS group.
I still have many close family members and friends who are devout members of the LDS Church.
I STILL Believe (have faith) in the Good News (Gospel), God , Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit etc.
I no longer believe in Joseph Smith's version of the gospel nor the Jehovah's Witness , Roman Catholicism Islamic versions either!
You guys Rock!
Sorry for not giving you guys any money to smear Ol Jonny boy 😂
I love the way apologists defend their religion by lying and then accuse others of lying. Since you are all concerned about honesty why not tell us where Midnight Mormons get their funding.
Lol. I’m a radio host. This isn’t my only show. We are a monetized CZcams channel. Deal with it.
Poor James Taggert 😢
James, on my great grandmother's death bed, she willed the estate to Midnight Mormons.
You really think the Church would fund these guys? Lol. Delusional. (I like these guys. I'm just saying)
Do you have any evidence that MM is funded in any way by the church?
I’m genuinely asking.