Ruger PC Carbine vs Kel-Tec Sub 2000
Vložit
- čas přidán 11. 04. 2018
- This is a table top review and comparison of the Ruger PC Carbine and the Kel-Tec Sub 2000. We move through a point by point comparison of the two platforms. Please check us out on facebook! Link is on the banner on our CZcams home page!
- Sport
Ruger is likely better quality, but I've had a Gen1 Keltec for years with several thousand rounds through it with zero issues, including shooting many days of drills and a few competitions with it. Runs great and is super easy to shoot. Added a rotating red lion precision forend and a trs 25 red dot and total price is still in line with the Ruger. PCCs are great - running the same shooting and moving drills, it can out shoot any pistol any day. In my experience, it's a great option that will run well for many years.
I have one of each and I’m running Sig Sauer Romeo5 red dots on both. At 25 yards they are both pretty much dead on. At 50 the Ruger keeps a tighter group and the difference opens up as you move out. The big thing to remember is these are PISTOL caliber carbines and shoot 9mm pistol ammunition. They are both a kick in the ass to shoot and have pluses over one another. Keltec is lighter, Ruger is a more stable platform. The only downside to either one of them, is keeping them fed with ammunition.
Glock 33 round mags....
can't have in California, 10 only.
Jerry Ray Hamburg that just sucks!!! Glad I live in the free state of Louisiana
Move to Texas
For me the Ruger hands down .
Ruger pc carbine is going to be my next PCC. I just bought a Sub2K that I absolutely love. The s2k goes with me everywhere.
Started where you did. I'm going to go the opposite direction... .45 hi point I think for me.
For logistical reasons I can only use guns that will fit in a backpack. I have both guns and I will tell you my opinion of them.
The Kel-Tec is nice if you only care about weight and compactness. Because that's the only good things about it. Of course, in certain scenarios weight is the deal breaker, so it has its niche. The cons being many. It is incredibly fragile. It's a paper thin barrel and a paper thin buffer tube joined together by a plastic box. You could break the gun in half over your knee if you know what you're doing. Also the barrel has garbage rifling with tooling chatter. You can't shoot lead out of most of them. Also, mounting optics is a pain and/or comes at a cost of foldability. The bolt is the minimum weight to contain standard pressure 9mm/40cal. Don't run +p if you don't want the gun to batter itself in half. Oh, also all of the above contribute to make it about as accurate as a smoothbore musket.
The Ruger on the other hand is significantly more accurate and significantly more robust. What do I mean by robust? For one thing its bolt is significantly heavier, and is of a better design. This means the Ruger can eat +p and even +p+ ammo all day. Also, when locked together the barrel and receiver assembly form one contiguous piece of metal. If you try to break this gun over your knee, you will break your knee. The barrel is of much heavier construction and has much higher quality rifling. The way it locks together is more solid and is easily adjustable (whereas the kel-tec's lockup is a pita to adjust). Finally, optic mounting is a non-issue, and you can mount scopes, which actually makes sense for this more accurate platform. It is, however, heavy. Heavier then a lot of AR's even. It is well balanced, but its length makes it unwieldy compared to most PCC's.
The Kel-Tec has a narrow niche in high speed sub 50 yard self defense scenarios. I say self defense, because the gun is not strong enough for active duty. It will break. But then again, its cheap enough and light enough you could just keep a few backups in the truck. I wouldn't want to operate that way though.
The Ruger has a operation range of 25 to 200 yards. Inside of 25 yards its weight and length make it too unwieldy, and you'd be better off with a pistol. Beyond 25 yards the Ruger really shines. Unlike the Kel-Tec, which is strictly a fighting weapon, the Ruger is a jack of all trades weapon that can be pressed into a multitude of roles. It's accuracy makes it a excellent small game hunting weapon and predator dispatcher. The ability to use traditional optics and scopes aids in this. It can, like any semi-auto, be pressed into a fighting role as well. It's ability to use +p ammo means it can achieve terminal ballistics more like a AR, rather then a PCC. Many accounts have the gun spitting out 6-750 ft lbs of muzzle energy with the right load. Putting that much energy behind a 9mm hollow point yields....explosive results.
Obviously I'm biased, but I feel justified. The Ruger is everything I needed it to be. The Kel-Tec was a huge disappointment. Perhaps if I were a slick high speed low drag operator I'd have a different opinion. But i'm just a loner survivalist, and I like the ruger.
Well written.
Well written.
I gave you a 👍just because you spent 20 minutes writing your comment..the ruger is a tank
Thanks for the good info
I'm curious if all the critiques of the Kel Tec apply to the Gen 2, I hear they made a LOT of improvements over the Gen 1
I had both, traded the Ruger and don't regret it. The Sub 2000 is a much better gun for the concept of a truck/backpack gun. Trust me, I was surprised too, but Kel-tec got this one right.
Bought the Kel Tec. It all depends what you want it for. I love Ruger but for super one piece concealed carry It's the Kel Tec for size and weight for me.
Concealed? 🙄
@@elche1976 backpack
The hold open on the sub 2000 is actually at the back of the charge handle. Have to pull it back and pull the handle off to the side allowing it to catch in the offset of the groove. It's not a refined hold open but it does work.
I looked at both, watched various videos, and decided on the Ruger. I purchased the chassis model with the magpul adjustable stock. I figured by the time you upgraded the Sub 2000 to come close to the Ruger, the prices would be identical. I'm pretty happy with my choice.
Good call on the upgrade price. I have both. When I purchased the Gen 2 Sub2k I immediately purchased and installed every M*Carbo upgrade made for the Sub2k. In total the upgrades costs more than the rifle. However, it is a completely different rifle now. Between the weight advantage and the upgrades it is a far better rifle than the Ruger PCC. I still love my PCC but the added weight needs to be addressed by Ruger.
I'm still happy with my choice. I planned from the beginning to use an optic (because the chassis model doesn't come with sights) and I felt that the sub 2000 had a clunky way to mount the optic. I didn't like the idea of having to fold the optic to get the gun to fold correctly. The Ruger just seemed simpler by comparison. I still think the Sub 2000 is a cool gun, and I still might get one, but just use the iron sights so it will fold easier.
@@steimystein4368 Completely agree with you on the optic. My Sub2k is my only firearm without an optic for that reason.
I have the Kel Tec. Ease of use in close quarters is excellent. I'm not looking at an optic because the iron sights are deadly at 25 yards and beyond. I'm not trying to take deer with this at 100 yards, that's why I have my 30-30. This is an excellent home defense weapon, which is why I have it next to my bed at night loaded with Federal HST rounds. It will also take small game at moderate distance. And it is insanely portable. It has it's uses, and within those parameters it is superb.
Can't go wrong with either one. Both are a ton of fun to shoot. Just get both!
Agreed, they actually are not comparable. Each have different niche.
RUGER all day long
I have both...totally different experience. Both very fun to shoot. 😎🤘🏻
@@doctoruttley late, but which would you recommend for a first time gun owner?
2 years later still one hell of a review definitely influenced my buying decision.
@blurble923 Kel-Tec (Glk 17)
It’s just awesome.
Ruger quality control is unbeatable, gotta say is trust their build over most...including
Kel-Tec...
💪🇺🇸💪
Instablaster...
Love my Keltec sub 2000's ( 9mm & 40 cal ) over the bulky Ruger for what it's worth as a truck / pack gun.
You can carry 30-40 rnd mags for the Keltic sub 2000 as backup mags that can interchange with your Glock mags in your pistol.
Keep safe all and NEVER give up your guns, they are our last Defense against criminals and a corrupt Tyrannical government.
I have the Sub2000. Over 1000 rounds put through it. No problems at all. Keep it clean and it’ll work every time. Use good quality ammo.
Thanks Chris as always very informative thanks as I have both of these tell Randy we said hi can’t believe you didn’t ask him what he thought lol love the unboxing
Thanks! exactly the analysis I needed!!!
I own both, the ruger is easily a better shooter while the portability, quick deployment and weight make the sub2000 an amazing backpack gun.
Where you going with a pcc toting around in a backpack?
@@noway57 the forest.
I have the KT Sub 2000 G2, a 2017 year model, it was one that needed the recall barrel swapped out. I sent it to KT for that but also mine had a problem with reassembly on sliding the bolt back in from day one of ownership, it would ketch on the hammer. The only way to make it slide in fully on mine is take a wooden dowel rod and put a little pressure on the hammer and then only then will the bolt slide past the hammer, this was after doing a trigger hammer reset. I brought this to KT attention with a enclosed letter describing the problem and also a comment on their website. When I got my Sub2000 back from the recall barrel swap ,they did not fix the bolt problem at all. The gun works flawless other that pain in the butt bolt not sliding in without assistance from the dowel rod.
Any response from KT
Ruger is unmatched in quality compared to keltec. Weight and size is on the keltec side , trigger , accuracy and reliability is on rugers side
Ruger skimped on quality a bit on this one though
@@derf2170 In what ways? Asking because curious.
@@kennydoggins1712 I love an accurate review. I own this one but just saw Kel-tec Caloco. Probably just got approved by CA Roster. Yeah. CA has a few guns its a grab it before its gone. Almost no semi-auto rifle are here in nuthouse.
I found the kel-tec to have lighter felt recoil than the PC9 as well which is a little surprising until you consider how much more massive the kel-tec bolt assembly is. I think it travels further too. And for some reason the polymer rails on the sub 2k are some sort of weird almost picatinny. I'm sure the Ruger has proper, uh, plastic picatinny.
@@kennydoggins1712 It's not 'kind of like an AR bolt', it's direct blowback. It's literally the way submachine guns have been designed for over a hundred years, and it's good to go. If you need your gas system and your feed system totally divorced, get you that SIG thing I guess. Locking lugs are wasted on 9mm imo.
Love from Plainfield Indiana. I’m wanting a ruger pc carbine and I’ll not be getting a sub 2000 because my buddy had one and I tried working on it for him and what a piece
Amazing video. Thanks for the effort.
I've got a 1st Gen 40 Cal Sub 2000 and love it. Modified the OEM Fore Stock to carry a spare 17 round Glock mag.
Waiting for Kel Tec to start selling their Suppressed Sub 2000 and going to pick one up in 9mm.
Great video ... very nice to see the Ruger PC Carbine innards and such.
nice comparison! exactly the two carbines of interest.
I'm a Ruger fan but for the purpose of these rifles, I'll take the keltec. Smaller, lighter, foldable, uses popular pistol mags and it's better looking. Awesome backpack gun.
Glock mags are not a popular pistol mag?
@@jessecoonce1363 They are, but with the sub2000 you get options. My main 9mm is a cz75 so I've got my sub2k setup for those.
The mcarbo upgrades make the Sub 2000 a beast.
And takes the price into the same range if not more... (I've been adding them at a steady rate myself)
Yes, but no matter what, even mcabro optics mount did not hold 0 at 100m accurately after 500 rounds for me. And that is significant problem from my viewpoint.
@@jakubp.6987 Seems to be doing a bit of vertical stringing to me as well...
very nice review! thanks so much, Chris!
Thanks for watching!
I would wager that the Ruger will long outlast the KelTec
@John Evans I have a sub-2000 and it's a lot of fun... But I can't argue. I've detail stripped mine and have seen airsoft guns that seemed better constructed. Plastic feed ramps and lots of parts that are essentially pot metal.
It's a sucker's bet
It's all about purposes, though the Kel Tech can be fit into a bag you could have a bag with enough guns for multiple people in a scenario nessasary for that where you need to be mobile and shtf. Surely staying within home is not plausible for all scenarios
Lmao
@@sociopathmercenary Mcarbo has Amazing upgrades for your Kel-Tec! They have recoil packages, trigger jobs & even a metal feed ramp. Great veteran owned shop! www.mcarbo.com/kel-tec-sub-2000-accessories.aspx
I like both but have to go with sub 2000 for its size, stays together when broken in half, no tools, small stock, takes a variety of popular pistol mags out of the box, and easy to field strip. There are a few things to Improve on but overall satisfied. MCarbo has excellent upgrades for trigger, guard, rear sight, and larger charging handles. In a survival situation it can be quickly put together in seconds and stows in a bag or under a seat in a truck.
Own both for years. As a fan of PCC weapons, especially for home defense. Light weight and maneuverable. Both take more running maintenance as far as cleaning the breach. 9mm not being a neck down cartridge is a dirty rifle round. Both run wonderfully when clean. Good for well over 300 rounds without a hiccup. Well within defensive parameters! 147 grain 9mm is a killer round that shoots straight as a string for at least 120 yards with plenty of knockdown power.
My particular Keltec has been modified with a full set of Red Lion brand fore stock components. All milled aluminum and without a doubt more substantial for the long haul. The Red Lion product allows a quad rail. This allows various options to the end user.
Both weapons are tack hammers and wonderful tools. Just mount your favorite red dot and go to town.
just bought a Gen 2 .40 sub 2000, picking it up tomorrow - pretty excited!!!
I’ve had my KelTec 40S&W for about a year now. I’ve never had a single issue with it. It’s a fun little carbine. I think you’re going to enjoy it.🍻
My 40 caliber sub 2000 only cost me about $349. Since it is easily folds down to 16 and a half inches. It fits very well in a 19 inch Laptop computer bag. This gun has a different role from my AR 15. Which cost 4 times as much.
Very thorough, thank you!
I have sub 2000 got it used$300 but I have been eyeing the Ruger lately
Its same price $499 in CA but Ruger has gone up too $599-699 in Californiacation. I have not seen one a year or so I ordered mine.
Love the ruger, very accurate.
I am a big fan of the Ruger PC 9.. it has ran flawless for two years not...Amazing workmanship and it got the "ker pow" that a pc carbine needs..
Accuracy is amazing. runs any ammo I feed it... I use ruger mags.
Thank you for a excellent video. Take care and God Bless.
Like them both. Edge to Ruger for build quality. Front sight on the Keltec sucks.
I was looking at both of them. In northern nj gun stores now all closed due to covid 19. I found the kel tec went from 500-530 the ruger went for 540-580. Note in Nj we have a 10 round mag limit and is usually more thannon restricted ones. I found a lightly used kel tec for 300 dollars so that made the decision for me.
I was looking at both of these rifles for the past few months. I eventually saw the Kel-Tec finally and picked it up for about $400. Gen 2 model fitted for the Glock 19 mags. I've shot it twice now, with about 500 rounds through it. I've only had one malfunction and that was during rapid fire, so take that how you will. I would like to check out the Ruger PC Carbine at some point. I like Ruger, although I've sold 2 of the 4 Rugers I've owned. Both of these carbines have advantages and disadvantages. I personally wanted a 9mm carbine to take to the range and blow through some ammo with. So, for that purpose, the Kel-Tec is about $200 less. Time will tell if the gun will hold up, my money is the Ruger would last longer over time.
It’s definitely a long shot, but if you see this comment I would love to know how everything turned out
I own both . If I had to chose I'd be hard pressed to do so . The solid feeling of the Ruger gives u a sense of ruggedness . But the Kel-tec is awesome for its lightness . The Kel-tec would definitely be in my back pack and if your a course shooter you'll love it's use . But the Ruger also feels smooth as butter and is fine target weapon . Respect the 9mm round at 200 yrds it hits harder than 5.56 . I've done 400 plus rounds at 200 yards with Sub2000 and you can drive nails with good ammo . Both are awesome weapons . What else to say ? Buy one or both you can't go wrong.
Great review thanks
the keltec is a good backpack gun its more compact/ lighter than the ruger by two pounds and its cheaper im not saying the ruger is bad, its a amazing gun but for my needs the ruger cant beat the light compact keltec
I have the ruger and take this as a WARNING!! it's habbit forming and addictive. You could run out of ammo. WARNING MAY CAUSE AMMO SHORTAGE 😁
Ruger is a great company that stands behind their product if you ever do have any issues. Their carbine is really less of a backpack gun other than necessity. In a true bug out situation it wouldn't ride inside my pack anymore, though you are still carrying that weight. Much nicer firearm for sure. I will be adding it to the collection for sure. The sub 2k would more likely take the place in the pack while the ruger would more likely reside in the safe.
I don't understand why every reviewer fails to mention that the craptastic plastic (craplastic?) picatinny rails on the Sub2k are not flat. They are peaked, like the roof of a house. This is a result of the way the foregrip is manufactured in 2 halves that meet in the middle. Any optic mounted on those rails will cant either right or left as a result and one cannot reliably remove the optic and expect to maintain zero when remounting it. You can see this for yourself at approximately 8:10 in the video. I inquired about this to KelTec and they recommended I buy their aluminum foregrip (which has it's own problems).I filed mine down flat finally but this should be fixed at the factory. NOTE TO KEL-TEC: IF YOU ARE GOING TO BOTHER PUTTING PIC RAILS ON A WEAPON, YOU SHOULD MAKE THEM FUNCTIONAL AND NOT JUST COSMETIC LIKE THE OEM FOREGRIP OF THE SUB2K.
thomas mitchell i didn’t put a optic on my top rail cause I want to be able to fold it and stow it. You can get the side mounts for foldable optics. I just put a light on it on the left side and a laser on the bottom rail and bought the larger Mcarbo steel sights and mine rocks! 👍🏻
The Kel-Tec I bought was awesome! I put the Mcarbo trigger spring kit in it and it became a dream. With a 1-6 scope I was able to shoot 1.5-2" groups at 50 yards from a bench, with bulk ball ammo. After many thousands of rounds I never experienced a jam, or malfunction of any kind. Don't let the construction materials fool you, these are well proven, reliable guns! I sold mine because of the political climate in Canada. That was a very sad day.
Why did you have to sell? I know Justintime hates guns but were you at risk legally? Or socially? No disrespect, curiosity.
@@thomasblock1164 I was in no jeopardy. Since Justin made it clear that he was going to ban guns, I made a crystal ball guess as to which of my guns he was most likely to ban first. I figured because of it's "ugly " looks and its semi-auto function, he would ban the Sub early on. I wanted to still get its full value, so I sold it ahead of any announcement. Currently, the S2K is still non-restricted and I know nothing of the Liberal government's future plans. They have made it clear though (to those who pay attention) that their goal is to ban any gun they can. Cheers!
@@EdAb It does leave one uncertain. Still, that is not a course of action most of us in the US would take. "Come get it then." This would be our common response. Maybe that is why we aren't subject to the same disrespect? Or maybe, that disrespect is headed our way. We will see how it plays out. Have a great day. We love Canada.
@@thomasblock1164 The biggest difference is we in Canada - as of this moment - don't have a legal leg to stand on. The U.S. - for the moment - still has a Second Amendment. We in Canada are taking the federal government to court to fight the confiscations, but those legal actions have a low likelihood of succeeding. Many people talk big, but when push comes to shove, most of those big talkers will knuckle under. Resistance quickly fades when a government gun gets pointed at you. The U.S. fight must be won at the ballot boxes. As the Supreme Court just confirmed, they can't be counted on yet. And as Virginia has proven, no amount of protest and civil disobedience can offset poor voting choices. Everyone must, even if they have to hold their noses, vote Republican in November. Otherwise, your Second Amendment will become a memory from the past.
@@EdAb perhaps that is so. We had armed and peaceful protests on the lockdown here in Michigan. Not even a red state. What they will do is limit transfer and acquisition but allow current ownership. (I think) If they come for guns, there will be a skirmish. (I think) tally ho.
Would be great to see a 5 shot group at 100yards from each rifle.
ruger wins, I have both
The package is undeniable !
Sub" 2K just fill's the billet.
Great video, I biggest deal maker was the length of the broken down or folded unit. Many standard size back packs will handle the Keltec folded at less than 17”. Additionally, it is a close range carbine for under 100 yards. I don’t any of us are shooting more than 50 yards in our homes or yards for home defense and for a travel companion. If you are, then you probably are taking out your AR.
Thanks for video. I might also add that the Ruger has the upper hand also in future conversion, I bet the additional weight and beefy...ness of the Ruger will Birth a 10mm soon, as the Bolt face is also easliy switched too and magwells easy to swap! And remember the stock ruger already has three conversion mags already and will probably have more. I think Ruger could also slip a hex wrench into the buttstock somewhere for tear down too. I will also note that $499 ruger vs $450 keltec approx...the stock keltec gen2 you will want to add hundreds of dollars in Mcarbo badass upgrades BUT still not as strong as the stock ruger from what i know and i have G19-G17 subs and ruger! The ruger rail will lock in dot scopes and other dots very sturdy vs plastic aftermarket issues for dots on more keltec upgrades not needed on stock ruger! Recoil better with heavier ruger and probably gonna shoot suppressed better too with suppressor mounted and you break ruger down easier to carry than with sub folded and suppressor sticking out when carrying too.
Magpull created a stock for the Ruger 10/22 Takedown that makes it much better - I called them recently and they're doing something similar soon for the Ruger PC 9mm Carbine Takedown. (And it will fit in the same 10/22 Takedown bag!)
GandolfTheWise
I just picked up the sub 2000, I haven't shot it yet but so far I love the feel and look
AFRAMS-CCT AF-RAMS-CCT i have gen 2 sub 2000 9mm......love it
AFRAMS-CCT: I too picked up a SUB2K not long ago and took a month or two before shooting it. As much as I love how it folds, and can match up with various pistols, I just don't like shooting it very much. The SUB2K shoots like what it is: A basic, bare-bones, backup carbine. Its just not fun or comfortable to shoot.
I suspect the Ruger is a far better choice between the two and I will be looking into getting a PC Carbine soon to replace the KelTec.
The sub 2000 just got recalled for a barrel issue; it can rupture. I already sent it in for a new barrel under warranty. Back it goes. Just thought I'd give you a heads up.
Thanks, and yes, I did hear of the barrel issue. Owners can check the website to see if their gun has a serial number that would have it recalled. Mine is okay. Good to at least see Kel-Tec found the problem and announced the recall.
@@BobC59 Keep the Kel Tec, buy the Ruger !
I have the Gen2 Keltec. Love it. Don't have any experience with the Ruger but from the video it seems more complicated to operate/takedown. I've got some MCarbo mods on my Keltec that work really well. I run a Sig Romeo5 reddot that flips into and out of position without a hitch and is accurate every time. This being a 9mm handgun round I'd be comfortable with a resting headshot at 50 yards, high center of mass off hand from 75 to 100, but anything beyond that I would want a higher power rifle round of some type. Fun to shoot though and easy to carry in a back pack. Good for defense on the road if you're camping etc. Not my first choice for home defense.
Have seen a few vids of the S2K, with a convoluted Flip-Fold-Flip-Twist mechanism to get an optic mounted on the fore-end out of the way when folding it.
I’m thinking having a vertical hinged stock would be a far easier method. Just swing both barrel/fore-end and the stock up, with the receiver length giving the space for the barrel mounted optic, and then the pistol grip with be sticking out the ‘end’.
To unfold, just slap the stock and fore-ends down, while holding the pistol grip in your dominant hand.
I have a feeling that the Ruger is going to be the better built of the two. But I would choose the Kel-Tec simply because of the way it folds so neatly and compactly.
Yep, agree 💯
I have both. Choices are good.
You can't have a red dot on it and fold it
The Kel-Tec has a manual bolt hold-open; pull the charging handle all the way back, then rotate it slightly into a holding notch.
I also own both, because I camp in CA along the 395 I bring my Ruger. I have the one with the non threaded barrel and I use the super short Glock G-26 10 round mags. As far as the trigger Ruger hands down. I know 9mm is not a Bear gun however it eats BB +P Keith case hard rounds where the KT won't reliably feed them. As far as weight if you're not a girly man you should be ok.
i picked up this ruger and i got to tell you its maybe my best rifle. it just works, whatever you ask of it.
Did you get the 40 or 9mm I saw a video where the 9 would malfunction
I have the PC 9, still like new, tell ur buddy I'll trade him nothing wrong with the PC9 I just love kel tec.....
I had a sub 2000 and it was a PITA to aim unless you put a scope or red dot on it to get it away from your cheek. The Mount for the scope was $100.00 because the scope needs to be twisted for folding.
It was also very easy to take apart but it was a PITA to put it back together.
I had two good days with my Sub 2000 - The day I bought it & the day I sold it.
I now have the Ruger PC and it is by far a much better shooting carbine. I put the Glock magazine insert on it as soon as I brought it home. It is fun to shoot, Easy to break apart,, and just a way better design.
Ronnie 948 should of just bought the MCarbo larger steel sights, they work great. I don’t bother with a optic, things dead nuts up to 60yards. I put a cheap light on the side and a laser on the bottom rail. Thing eats everything as far as ammo, I can use it for home defense or throw it in my truck and it’s a great package with my G17 and a bunch of 33rd “freedom sticks” for “active shooters” medicine or its as light as hell just to throw in a backpack to go on a hike or camping. Absolutely love the OD green Gen2! 👍🏻
I owned the gen 1 sub 2000.Had to replace the fragile rear sight 3 times. Thats because I carelesly leaned it against walls where it would fall over and sight would snap off.
I chose the Ruger just because of the extra weight and added durability.
I am adding many Midwest Ind. mods to increase performance and reduce some weight.
I understand the appearance of a similar purpose between these, but I think that is an illusion. The Kelly is definitely suppose to be a throw and go for when you don't expect to have to have a "rifle" but plan for the unexpected and it does that job fine, I guess, but every Gerber multi tool user will tell you it's nice to have the real tool when you can, and doable when the multi tool is all you got. It's a compromised prepper's tool. Nothing wrong with that. I really don't see the Ruger as a multi tool. It's got a more narrow purpose and has the ability to be adapted to narrow that even further. Threaded barrel, but no break, is just "ready to adapt" to a suppressor or compensator as purposed. Forend rail is ready for a light, if that becomes it's use. Take down barrel doesn't mean grab and go, but it's ready for a bag to be a grab and go or a discreet vehicle gun. Hard sights but reciever rail is readily adapted to a mid range or cqb optic. Comes with two quick options to pair mags with your pistol and room to grow more adaptions or options in time. It's a working tool for a specific set of jobs; like an angle grinder: different wheels for more specific purposes, but it's still a tool for shaping a piece of metal. If you just want a gun to throw under your seat or in a pack, "just in case," then the Kelly will do just fine I'm sure, but if it's part of your job to have a gun under your seat or in a bag "because reasons," then the Ruger is the better tool. Not quite apples and oranges, but not a directly comparable pair of fruits either.
I took my wife to check out both the pc carbine and Sub 2000. The weight of the Kel Tec was significantly lighter, however, with all her might she could not operate the charging handle. She is a very comfortable and competent shooter but the force required to charge that thing, in combination with the awkward design and only being able to use one finger, was more than her 100lb frame could do. I'm glad we went with the PC Carbine, its an awesome rifle.
Very good review. If you’ve ever shot the Kel-Tec, it’s very uncomfortable to rest your cheek on the buffer tube. The Sub 2000 is smaller, but it is far less in quality than the Ruger. IMO. The PC carbine is the one to buy between the two. I just wished it were a little cheaper, but that goes for the Kel-Tec as well. 😉
I really dont want a back pack gun that you need a tool to feild strip. good to know the comfort factor though, thanks.
@@acester8631 the kel tec takes multiple tools to field strip
Keltec should try molding with CFRP. It will cost more to manufacture but the improved durability would do wonders for their reputation and value.
I have them both I really enjoy using my Glock magazines and 50 round drum and hundred round drum in my kel tec. Either guns u can’t go wrong.
The backpacker stock on the newer PC carbines is awesome
From personal experiance. Ruger has first rate warranty, firsts rate customer service. I own several Rugers. I own one Kel Tec and will never buy another one. Let it be known that Kel Tec will not honor warranty without a copy of original sales recipt. Buy used or lose the receipt its your tough luck. Also Kel Tec refused to pay full shipping cost for my sub 2000 with a known defect.
👍
Good to know
I like both of them but if i had to buy one I get the kel tec the collapsible design a is big selling point
Your a fool
John Doe yea I fell for the keltec talk and I got a gun that jammed twice in ten rounds in the first load of 13 round Glock mag it came with. Second load it jammed 3 times. It's a junk gun. But hey you want to buy a keltec .40 cal it works good 😉
I have had both. I stuck with the Rpc9 because I chose the magpul version with the adjustable stock. I chose this version due to the ability to modify it if i so choose and the fact it has a standard AR style grip. I could not stand the grip on the sub 2k as well as the charging handle location. Over all it felt like something my kid would make out of blocks. The sub 2k did shoot good and never malfunctioned so it's not a bad gun, just not my preference.
KelTec Sub2000 runs about 570. Got the Ruger PCC for 540 and the Ruger tactical flag for 650. They are very comfortable and extremely reliable. I've shot the Sub2000 before and absolutely hated the rifle. One of my shooting partners agreed with me, that it was not a good shooter.
Both are American made, but the Ruger is definitely the better quality rifle.
i know the sub 2000 can use model 59 mags, I was looking if the pc carbine has more than 2 mag options in the works. In california we cant buy new glock 15 round mags, I have some model 59 mags
I perfer the Ruger I bought the Kel Tec but sold it. I find the PC Ruger is spot on and I run optics, both work good as a bug out weapon but I like the feel and look of the Rugar. If you want to spend a little less buy the KelTec.
Nice video, little long, but informative. I have the Kel-Tec Sub2000 Gen 2, in 40 Cal / G23, and a Ruger 10/22 "Takedown". I looked at the Ruger PC Carbine, and Sub2000 in 9 mil. After weighing the pros-cons of both platforms, I went with the KT. Sub2000 advantages: Length, weight, options you can add, and price. Did I say you can fold the KT in half!!!
I already have the 10/22 with its own case and its a fun plinker. With the Ruger PC, I don't see the need for another bulky, heavy, and pricey carbine that holds no nitch or value in my collection...
My thoughts exactly, as I have a 10/22 and no need to have another 'just for fun/plinker" type rifle, as the PC would be for me. My idea of a 9mm carbine is to stow away easily in a vehicle or a backpack, and the Sub2000 is a better design for that job.
I have a sub-2000 and it's a blast to shoot. Don't ever detail strip it tho. Lots of questionable materials... Like plastic feed ramps and a bolt tube that you can deform by squeezing it with your hand. I'd be willing to pay double for a premium version.
Sergeant T Pricey??????????
I just bought both today!
I have been on the fence with these two ever since the PC9 came out. I would mainly use it for action shooting, so 4" groups at 50 yards is the hardest shot to make offhand, and most shots at 15 yards on average. It would be nice if there was a way for either of these to accept CZ 75 mags.
+1 on the CZ mags for sure.
PC 9 can be used with CZ 75 magazines now
Excellent thank you so much
First and most important to me is which is better for left handers.
The Ruger is a better shooter, but the Keltec is just so portable. Both are fun to shoot.
Ruger I need to put my cheek on more than what Kel tec gives you. And as far as accuracy again Ruger takes it there to. Have shot both and the Ruger because it’s a rifle with a stock it will hold very good groups out to about 60 yards combat accuracy certainly not a tact driver. As far as the kel tec it is better because it folds up and is wat easier to pack plus light weight. But for me again it’s Ruger.. great review nicely detailed.
I suspect a tactical version of the PC Carbine is in the works from Ruger
Check out model 19115
@@swashbucklingmonkey Just picked one up. I was waiting on the m Lok model to become available and I wasn't disappointed. Thanks for the heads up.
Aaaand they made it. Check out the model 19115 (or commie state compliant model 19117)
It's non tactical look makes it easy to get pass cops because it looks like a 10/22
@@agungpriambodo1674 what do you mean get passed the cops? If either one is purchased legally it doesnt matter anyway
Kel-Tec really needs to make this for CZ ! Then i'll buy one.
they do have that on the gen 2 they have different mag catchers you can easily swap out.
@@blipsnchips4492 But you have to find the Multi Mag version which I have NEVER seen in the wild or at a range.
I had both, a 9mm ruger and a first generation 40sw Kel tec sub 2k. The ruger is a great gun, no problems what so ever. Got rid of the Kel tec. The Kel tec jammed(stove piped) on every magazine load, usually multiple times using any brand of ammo. I sent it back to Kel tec for repair and after 3 months I got it back. It jammed on the very first round of the very first magazine. I will never buy another Kel tec product.
I'm old school, I would love the Ruger version in a walnut stock!!!
Ruger hands down is a better rifle. I had a kel tec 2000 which the barrel blew out and could have caused catastrophic injuries. Later I found out a week later there was a recall on that rifle. Very disappointing. Ruger is a very solid platform, just not a looker like the Kel tec was.
wasn't that recall last year tho?
I got my recall after adding my attachments put on and had to strip them off, repack it, then send it away for a month to await repairs. I did get a free 10 round mag for the month they had it...... Yeah a 10 round mag. My regular mags are 15 round. Glad you didn't get injured by your gun failure.
lol the ruger is fairly bland imo, but almost anything looks better than that ugly kel tec...put down the crack pipe.
think im gonna go with the Kel tec after seeing this, I dont want a back pack gun that needs a tool to feild strip.
One allen wrench is all you need, and that includes being able to get the trigger group out for cleaning. God help you if you need to open up the sub2000 in the field. It requires an allen wrench, pulling (and not losing) c-clips, a pile of allen screws, washers, and nuts, and remembering how to set everything "just so" using your three hands to get it back together and functional. That said, the Sub2000 weighs so much less than the ruger and deploys so much faster, I agree that it is the better choice for a pack gun.
All you got to do is clean the bolt face and barrel
that is my only beef, u must remember the tools if u hit the field for extended use
Looks like the bolt travels further on the keltec. Might be less recoil but more chamber pop.
really hope Ruger comes out with a 40 S&W PC Carbine
i would choose ruger because of the name reputation and barrel material....though keltec is way more beautiful i think :D
I love pistol caliber carbines. I have owned more than my fair share ranging from Marlin Camp 9s to Henry level actions in 44 magnum and even a few Hi Point (knock it off, the carbines are fantastic) in 9mm and 45acp. I currently own a Keltec Sub2K Gen2 in 9mm which pairs nicely with a collection of Glocks in the same caliber. I have wanted to get my hands on a Ruger PC Carbine for some time, but after some initial issues with the guns decided to wait. Since that time I've spent a lot of time in local gun stores fondling them like a drunken college date. Yes, the Ruger is a great gun from a rock solid company, but so is the Keltec. On top of that, I feel like the Ruger lacks in some key areas related to the purpose it was intended for.
The Ruger does a lot well, but to serve as a backpack gun it lacks a lot. It's heavy and cumbersome for a pack gun. To say it's bulky for a pack gun is an understatement. I don't want it banging around in my pack in chunks and greatly prefer the Sub2K in one tightly locked up unit. On top of that, the base price is $80 - $100 less for the Sub2K at my local gun stores (Indianapolis area). That's a few extra 33 round Glock mags (if you want to shoot Glock mags through the PC 9 it's an extra cost for the mag well adapter) or some ammo and/or accessories.
You don't need to buy an adaptor for glock mags, it's in the box
you should try a carbine made for carbine... .30 carbine no one has ever made a better version
I really wish Ruger would make a Non-takedown version, they could have a cheaper base model and the people that neither need nor want the take down feature would be happier since they could get the gun a little cheaper.
I don't know if I failed or won this vs by having both of them. But the Keltec I have is such an old Gen 1 it doesn't even have iron sights, only a rail. But it's always been solid. I threw a lot of mcarbo in both and they both run like champs. I still prefer the Ruger, its just a little more refined, but that Keltec is slick. Have my eyes on the Skorpion Evo.
Anyone have an opinion of which mag change is quicker/smoother? I haven't seen a side-by-side comparison of mag changes with these, but here's what I surmise after watching a few comparison vids (anyone with hands-on experience, please correct me if I'm mistaken).
Ruger mag change: Last round locks the bolt back, support hand releases the empty mag from the well forward of the trigger guard, then support hand goes for the fresh mag, seats it in the well and you have a choice: A. reach over the top with support hand to release the charging handle and re-set to a shooting grip -or- B. move support hand to the forward grip and use dominant hand to release the charging handle and re-set to grip the stock.
Kel-Tec mag change: No last round lock back, dominant hand releases the empty mag from the well in the pistol grip while support hand simultaneously goes for a fresh mag, seats it in the well, then it looks like you'd have to maybe twist the stock a bit to easily get at the charging handle to charge it back and chamber a round.
MCARBO has some useful upgrades for the sub 2000 that are very useful in making it better.
@ No argument there. For the cost of all the upgrades plus the sub2k itself, one could buy a new cz scorpion evo3.
A hi point should be on here
I have the Kel Tek in the .40 caliber. Deadly accurate
While the Ruger is better quality, the functionality of the Kel Tec is top notch IMO
One gun stays intact to fold up and put in your backpack. The other you have to disassemble and reassemble. If I am out in the desert or woods, I know which gun would be in my bag.
Popeye Andy after more research, the Ruger definitely appears to be better built. I may have been won over. I would still keep the sub2k
I love my KelTec Sub2K. But Ruger is a big step up in quality. I'm just waiting for the 10mm version!
Buy the 9 and enjoy it now. The dead blow, main spring mag well and bolt face look like they were designed to be convertible in the future. You probably aren't going to have to buy a whole new gun.
I would like a 40 S & W version since my relatives have standardized on that caliber. For anything past 50 yards, I would use a rifle caliber. I think of this Ruger as an in house Booger Gun. Take care of business without through and throughs offing the neighbors.