How to Use Stone, Steel & Iron to Bake Bread
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- čas přidán 26. 11. 2021
- Volcanic rock, Steel and Cast Iron are my materials of choice to bake on. I rotate the material depending on what I am baking. In this video I'll explain how I use each of them and what they are best suited to baking.
If you can find a local fabricator or online steel supplier then going for a bespoke piece of steel could be the best bang for your buck.
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Chapters:
0:10 Volcanic Rock Baking Stone
2:13 Baking Peels
2:31 Baking Stone Temperature
3:06 Cast Iron Pan
4:34 Cast Iron Temperature
4:57 Baking Steel
7:12 Baking Steel Temperature
Equipment:
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Finally someone normal who is using metric system instead of imperial. Many thanks!
You're welcome :)
I bought a load of bricks designed for a wood fired oven. They were cheap and work perfectly. I just set them out on my wire rack. I also use volcanic rocks in a tray at the bottom of the oven to pour water on and create steam for the oven spring. I managed to get those for free. One of the benefits of living on a volcano.
Are they refractory bricks ad I was looking at those today would be good to know how they worked
I use a steel and what I do to prevent the bottom of the bread from overbaking is either pre heat the steel at a lower temperature, or preheat it to max but turn off the oven for 20 minutes whenI slide the bread in. Second option somehow yields a better oven spring. I never tried, but I guess using parchment paper on the steel will also prevent the bread from baking too quickly at the bottom
40x40 mill carbon steel for $ 38.00 on Amazon. Need seasoning. Great for pizza and ciabatta. Highly recommended
I have followed your baguette method over 10 times and always get a great result …. Got some being baked tomorrow, T55 and granary , great flavour …thanks again man👍
Awesome man, really pleased you are enjoying the recipe :)
Thank you so much. very useful info
Useful. Thanks.
Thanks Philip, another good topic. I used to bake in an enameled Cast Iron Dutch oven, but it is hard to get the bread in and out. Now I bake in a preheated vintage Pyrex England chicken roaster, 2.5” tall bottom with dome lid. For baguettes, ciabatta and Bloomer, I baked in baking stone, it works well covered with a large rectangular roaster top misted with water. The challenger pan does look very tempting though.
Hey Becky. I’d like to try the Pyrex dishes, I haven’t seen any here in Athens, I’ll have a proper look. We do have some cool terracotta chicken roasters, I’ve been tempted to try one of those.
I got a stone plate at the waste collection point. Many times such plates remain unused after a construction job and you can get them for free. It works beautifully, but it does tend to overheat.
As an older sourdough baker I find most recommended Dutch ovens just toooo heavy, and unnecessary. I use a pyrex casserole and lay the dough in the shallow lid. Enamel roasters are great too, just use a parchment “sling” to place the dough inside. I rarely preheat my oven. I turn the oven on and place my dough inside at the same time, just adds a few extra minutes to the bake time. My rationale is that the slow heating gives the dough time to slowly “spring” before the crust hardens. You are a great presenter, love watching your videos…thank you.
Hi Marion, thank for your comment and your kind words. The cast iron pans are heavy, there are days when I don't want to handball them around the kitchen. Pyrex is a great option, although I haven't tried the "sling", I have seen it on Instagram. I'm going to be experimenting with some kind of clay pot in the coming months. Good to hear from you, all the best, Philip
The knowledge
I have always used terracotta to bake my bread in, all the European countries seem to have their own variety - Romertopf in Germany. They are usually only glazed internally. You do have to be careful as they can break if dropped.
We have something similar here in Greece. I haven't experimented with one but will definitely give it a go. I'm wondering if they need to be glazed. Cheers Tanja, really good to hear from you :)
I use cooking steel pot and is great
I have a steel plate as well cut to size to fit the railings of my oven for just 25€. Pizza works great but I struggle with the spring of my bread so I went back to the dutch oven. Maybe I'll try the stainless steel chain option as well
Maybe try dialling down the temperature when you use the steel and see if that helps :)
Thanks! (Seeing that Challenger sitting on your shelf made me consider asking how you got on with it.) Lots of good info for us!
Cheers Helen. The Challenger pan is very good. To be fair I wouldn't want to choose a favourite between any of these, they can all do things that the others can't! (If that makes sense) Cheers, Philip
@@CulinaryExploration But with all of these, they must preheat in the oven? And the volcanic stone can preheat without danger of cracking?
@@helenjohnson7583 I pre-heat all of them. The stone is absolutely fine. You need to be careful heating a stone if it's become wet. This ones coated so there isn't a lot of danger with that.
Hi Phil, struggling to find a lightweight casserole dish of the right size. Any recommendations for the UK?
Great subject. When I was getting started baking at home, I really didn't know my option where other than the pizza stones that can be purchased at any normal department store or Amazon. I have used an enamel coated cast iron dutch oven however I do agree with you regarding the mess of getting the dough into the pot. I would like to find a solution for that.
I've never baked with that type of pot Blair. People seem to use a large piece of baking paper and cut handles into it to lower the dough in, and then remove the bread once baked. Im guessing you've seen that and are probably doing it yourself.
Yes exactly. I will place the loaf on the parchment paper to proof and then grab the corners to lift the leaf and set it in the pot. Much easier using your cast iron cooker. I have come close to burning myself several times. I don't use the pot much anymore. I place my stone on the oven rack and slide the loaves onto the stone with a peel and then place a large stainless steel mixing bowl upside down over the loaves for the first 20 minutes. That or I just put a pan of boiling water at the bottom of the oven.
@@Simplycomfortfood One day I will have a go at baking with one. Hope Thanksgiving dinner went well and the Pain De Mie worked well for the stuffing :)
The meal was great. I made those cream cheese enriched rolls. Sooooo good. Both my kids were there and my daughters boyfriend. We had a beautiful time together. The dressing was great but the star of the show was the Turkey that I brined. The white meat was so juicy. It makes such a hug difference to brine. I did a wet brine.
@@Simplycomfortfood Sounds awesome. Did you inject the turkey or submerge it?
Thanks Philip you are amazingihope you enjoy your time in Greece i love the life. there.tell me please is your stone granite.
Greece is an amazing place that I'm proud to call home! My stone is actually crafted from volcanic rock from Mt Etna. I had a few issues with the supplier of this stone but when I have found a reliable supplier I'll do an update video on the stone.
Hi... i just found your channel. I have a question tho, i have this very old oven ( gas oven ) which is almost impossible to do the steam thingy to bake bread. So i always bake my sd loaf in my dutch oven, and i have two of those. Now the question is... is it possible to preheat my stainless 12 inch 5 layer all clad pan with lids on for 1 hour at 485F ? Is it possible to bake bread in it. I was thinking about semi baguettes and ciabatta. Since its large and has more surface in it. Thanks
Hi, Philip love your videos. I also live in Athens. can you tell me the address of the blacksmith? I want to try baking steel for pizza!
Thanks.
I also live in Athens. can you tell me the address of the blacksmith? I want to try baking steel for pizza!
Thanks.
I have a cast iron pizza pan that I've tried but the bottom cooks way too fast - tried a stainless steel bowl over top for the beginning of the bake. Maybe I shouldn't heat as long or high to start then crank when I put the loaf in?
Had moderate success with enameled Dutch ovens but hard to get in and out.
I'm so glad you did this video! I see you using such a variety of surfaces to bake on I wondered why and which you preferred. I use and love all my cast iron and that baker you show is a must have. But now you did not say what that pan is you are baking that pizza in is. It looks cast iron but not very deep so could you share what it is? I really enjoy how you share the knowledge you've gained over time. If you're ever just sitting pondering "what would be new and different to show" would you please consider making a English pudding that is not like American pudding at all LOL but bread? I read about it in a cookbook and was able to find a pottery bowl and a metal mold with a lid but the instructions were so lacking in how to use them properly I've not mastered it. To be honest I've not mastered why anyone would call bread "pudding" either. LOL Thanks so much for sharing!
Hey Melody, the pan I am baking one of the pizzas in is made by Skeppshult. It's an awesome pan. Do you mean a bread and butter pudding? I'd like to know what pottery and bowl you mean?
@@CulinaryExploration The cookbook is Delia Smith's Winter Collection, Comfort Food. The recipe is Apple Sponge Pudding with Mincemeat Topping and real custard. The note at the end says to steam for 2 1/2 hrs in a 1 Qt. pudding basin. When I looked up what a pudding basin was I also saw they used metal bowl looking molds with a tight lid and I got that also. I found both on ETSY because they are not common here.
@@melodysfiresidefarm Got you you now. We do a lot of steamed puddings in the UK. Our Christmas pudding is steamed too. Heres a link to a spotted dick I made (yes it's a pudding!) - that is steamed too czcams.com/video/tNewpwv4BE8/video.html
@@CulinaryExploration Perfect how did I miss that! That's an interesting name LOL Thank you so much!!
@@melodysfiresidefarm LOL - as I said, I promise its pudding :)
القناه رائعه ياليت تترجم للعربي
hi there, thanks for all the great vids. One question, is there anything specific I should look out for when trying to source locally a steel plate? looking at the commercial baking steel they mention "carbon steel" and there seem to be various types of steel, some that also contain nickel or chrome. What was it called in greek? Here if I ask for the translated version of carbon steel ppl look funny at me... Also anything special that needs to be done to be food safe? just the seasoning? thanks!
Hey Spike. I trusted the fabricator, he was making his own grills so he knew what to use. Have you tried explaining to them what you want it for? I scrubbed it really well with wire wool and soap, dried it off in the oven and then applied several light layers of oil and baked it in between coats. That's worked well
Thank you so much for this video! Would you please share with us where you got the Challenger pan in the US? Please! :-)
For sure, the link to the challenger pan is in the video description
When covering your bread with the enameled pan do you pre heat it love the videos
Nope, it doesn't need pre-heating :)
Phil, I see you have a couple of grain mills up on a shelf behind you. They look similar to the Mockmill but I think they are a different brand; am I right?
Yep, I'm experimenting with the Komo Classic at the moment. I'll be doing a video soon. It's been a nightmare trying to source good grain here at the mo.
One might say your Steel was such good value . . . it was a steal.
YEAHHH!
LOL, spot on
Hello Phil. My 10mm Granite baking stone came from the local stone mason. I just walked in and asked if he had an off-cut from a headstone. He charged me €5 to cut it to size.
I've actually got 3, but didn't want to boast.
I might see if I can get one here. I'm only asking because I know what you are like... do you know how hot it gets?
@@CulinaryExploration Hot enough to bake a couple of loaves of bread
@@CulinaryExploration Attempt No.2. It will eventually reach the ovens' setpoint temperature. I usually bake at 230°C.
I'll give it a blast in the oven tomorrow to see if I can melt it. Watch this space.
@@tac1809 I don't understand too much about the topic, but I was interested to see that the surfaces get hotter than the air temp in the oven. Keep me posted bud
@@CulinaryExploration Hi Phil, my granite baking stone took just under 60 minutes to reach 250°C. The highest temperature reached was 262°C, but that can be easily clarified. I'll send you some more details on IG, including why Granite/Stone doesn't burn the bottom of your loaf and why your 10mm thick Baking Steel does and why my 5mm Steel doesn't burn mine 😉
My oven is a Bosch Compact, set to 250°C on Baking mode (not hot Air).
Phil, I’m getting the feeling that 3 star Escoffier cooking is easier than baking! I’ve devoured all your videos and while my focus is on savoury food, I’d love to learn basic baking, beyond a bread machine of course! 😄. I’ll try a loaf this week. Which of yours is the best to try for the first time ‘not so talented / experienced baker, with no equipment other than what’s in Britain’s average kitchen? Are you planning any videos on Loukoumades, Baklava etc?
Hey Richard, get yourself a good strong bread flour and give the country loaf a whirl. It's a bit more than a basic loaf as it uses a pre-ferment. It's s five minute step that enable us to get more flavour into the bread, develop our dough easily, and cut down on the commercial yeast flavour. Link below, let me know via WhatsApp if you want any pointers, cheers. czcams.com/video/6iTOBI8lA-Y/video.html
@@CulinaryExploration will do! Off to Waitrose for stock ingredients so I’ll grab some flour. Any favoured brand in the UK? Thanks
@@IdeologieUK It has been a while since I have seen what's on their shelves. I'd go for a good strong bread flour and check the protein content is 12.% or above. Let me know what you go for
I had no idea you were living in Athens. I recently got my own cast iron Dutch oven, and I’m struggling to get that oven spring just right on a batard… it’s driving me crazy, cause I can do it with a loaf pretty consistently, but with the batard it tend to spill towards the side where the score is. Maybe i should substitute my room temperature proof for one in the fridge as I used to do with the boules
Yep, I moved away from the UK over 10 years ago now. That's strange, especially as you've nailed the boule. Maybe cut back on the proof a little. I'm sure the cold ferment in the fridge will help.
@@CulinaryExploration only one way to find out! Wish you happy bakes
Ello mate commenting on older vid so not sure you'll see it - I use a dutch oven (hehehe) as I have a gas oven, and any steam you add is vented out the back almost instantly. My pizza steel (6mm) works great for ciabattas though with a deep dish direct underneath and 1lt steam pour, but ya normal breads the venting pulls out the steam instantly.
Sorry lol, my question is what's your option on the dutch ? I did some temp checks and wihile the oven will be 240, the inside of the dutch oven is 270c. I think this was causing the issue I had at the beginning a lot of no rising - the crust was setting too fast. Even on gas mark 8 it's 260, it seems the gas doesn't regulate (you can tell the by the noise of how much it's putting out, it doesn't change until you go from 8 to 7, which is a complete stop, and gas mark 7 is 230c in the pot).
My worry is getting that initial high temp then turning down to 220-230 won't really work for me because the cast iron doesn't drop in temp like an oven would.
I had a stone but some bellend cooked a real greasy pizza on it and ruined it, just couldn't get it clean so binned it. It looked so disgusting I just couldn't enjoy cooking with it, even though I knew it was technically clean. Should I look for a new stone (there's actually a headstone place not far from me, could try there) and maybe get a fine mesh cover for the exhaust fan ? Or should I just add steam more often ?
I don't wanna stick with the dutch oven too much as it's my fave cooking utensil (I use it SO MUCH, like it's my #1 pan, having that wide 7L amount of space, making huge batches of ragu, it's heaven) and constant 250c can damage the enamel.
Or should I just stop worrying about the initial "blast" and get my ductch to 230 and work from there ? Just seems all recipes start with "get your oven to 250c for the first few mins then turn it down), and I never know if this is for rising purposes, or because opening the door will drop it anyway, which doesn't apply to me, because dutch doesn't drop in temp from that initial opening all that much.
BTW I think I asked but not sure, do you not have a patreon ? I think you'd be really successful with it, I'm a broke bitch and even I'd throw in a couple of quid a month. Few hundred subscribers, maybe thousands, you could get an extra grand or 5.
Sorry if this is inappropriate to ask or owt like that. As you can tell my filters are..not great lol.
Hope your good! Hope you're still good after reading my diatribes lmao.
-Andy
Forget the initial 'blast'. Just pre-heat your DO to 230C. If you get your fermentation and proofing stages right you'll nail the spring. You don't need to pre-heat to crazy temps. I bake at 220C and my loaves spring well. The stone I use is lava rock. I got it from Italy but it's more widely available now. This is the best material I've ever used for baking. Failing that you could pop down to a local fabricator, or find one online (they are happy to cut and ship in the UK). Ask them to cut a piece of steel to fit your oven shelf. That will give you maximum baking space. If you chose to use a baking stone or steel I'd suggest finding something to cover your dough. This will work very well in your gas oven. It doesn't need great thermal properties. My cover is made from enamel and is super lightweight. But it creates the perfect micro baking zone for the dough. You could use a large disposable foil turkey roasting tray (just keep re-using it). Or you could find a pot like mine on Amazon. The dimensions of my pot are: 40cm long x 30cm wide x 15cm high. Keep me posted.
@@CulinaryExploration Yeah I am trying lower temps currently. The other day I did a decent one that worked out a bit weird - I was doing it normal (so 1h autolyse, bit of kneading, 4-5h of bulk with about 4 folds), but got tired so threw it in the fridge. Next day when I did it I did it at a lower temp and it deffo came out better than usual. Probably a bit under proofed but ya, was really nice. did 450 white 25 wholemeal 25 spelt with 65% hydration. That was cooked at 230 I reckon and it came out pretty decent
I do all my loaves in a dutch oven so I'm set there, it's a god send. I have a steel too which I use for my ciabattas.
And ya it's less about pre heating to crazy temps, and more I've only just realised how hot my oven actually gets. I knew the max was hot, but I assumed #8 would be 230 or so. I decided to actually check it and it's 260 on the max and 8 is still 250, even 7 is 230-240 lol so ya my numbers are off a fair bit. Now that I know that though I can do em on lower temps
I recently also did buy a 8mm steel for around 55€ in Germany. And yours looks like 8mm also.
If the bottom is too seared when using the steel just let it preheat for a shorter time on 200C for example before you crank up the entire oven and then bake.
What do you think of this oven and baking method? czcams.com/video/8Qd-bmuHAko/video.html
I checked it out, Said. It was brilliant!!!! Is it yours?
I bake bread on a granite pavement tile ~6 euros.