Wow, just finished binge listening to all the podcast episodes and now starting to work my way through CZcams. Thank you for sharing this level of knowledge.
I got a counterfeit shimano chain off Amazon. It lasted only a couple hundred miles, maybe not even that long. I only discovered it was a fake because I was having issued and checked the wear and it was beyond worn.
Great video, really informative! My high performance recumbent bike has almost 12 feet of chain. I clean it with the "shake in a bottle with solvent" method but I have to use a milk jug. The downside, of course, is that this is a ton of chain. The upside is that cross chaining isn't a problem because of the long chain run. I use Squirt lube. Takes forever, but works great!
Thanks for the note Michael, so tempting to make a comment about the size/length of your chain or to have thoughts about pulling it, but I'll refrain ;-) Milk jug sounds perfect for your use case, love the ingenuity and the upcycling!! If you like Squirt, I think you'll love Secret Chain Lube.. we consistently show lower friction AND longer re-lube intervals in testing across all temperatures. Some of this comes from the Tungsten Disulfide permanently modifying the chain surface, so even is cost was a big consideration or issue, you could start a chain with SSCL to get it really rubbed in and surface modified with the WS2 and then move to Squirt for maintenance to save costs.. - Josh
Great video, and a great explanation of tolerances and why chains get precipitously more expensive the more gears they're designed for. This leads me to a question - would molybdenum disulfide be a reasonable wax additive if you were lubing, say, a 6-speed chain? These seem analogous to your 20- or 10-millionths bearings, where that particle size might be more appropriate. I ask because I use an old ("vintage") steel road bike as a commuter, and the weather where I live means that wax is the ideal lubricant.
Hi Josh, great video! Really supports the argument that the application of the lube will be most effective on a brand new chain; before surface finish (where it counts) deviates from 0.6micron.
Super interesting stuff. My thought is that if these ultra high finished products are so expensive to manufacture then why not settle for the “rougher surface” and match a larger particle to the gaps to make it flatter. Maybe it’s an order of magnitude difference and tungsten disulfide is still the best?
This is a great question. So the problem is that the roughness isn't consistent, and the more roughness, the more inconsistent it it.. I'll do a video on this showing the depths of the various imperfections, but in the case of this 0.6 micron surface, the range of imperfection probably varies by 0.2, but in a 6 micron surface, the range varies by say 2 micron, so it gets really, really hard to fill the roughness with the right sized particles as the target gets so much larger.. and even as you do fill them, the variance in the finished surface is quite big.. so NO, definitely better to spend the money to make the best possible surface and THEN modify it when seeking ultimate speed. There are other options as well, and I'll discuss that in the future video.. stay tuned!
Why not just put a really small version of those 1 millionth tolerance ball bearings instead of what is essentially 120 journal bearings in the chain (Sarcasm). But I can actually see Ceramic Speed doing something similar and charging $1000 per chain, after all they did have that shaft drive prototype. On a more serious note, do chains get faster with wear since the pin and inner plates are theoretically lapping and decreasing surface roughness? Maybe a parabola with a max efficiency point and then a decrease due to wear?
Great Video! Please include your suggestions in all your videos for products like Chain Cleaners & Lubricants that fill the uneven surfaces of the Polished Metal on the Chains. I will be learning about Silca Super Secret Chain Lube, and I will try this out on my road bike!!! I have watched the video that you did with Dylan Johnson named "Your Tires Could Be Costing You Minutes. Tire Rolling Resistance with Josh Poertner". Excellent Video as well. I am taking your suggestions for faster tires and Latex Tubes; Because Your suggestions dove tail so well with my experience with tires. Over the years I have experienced the improvement in speed and performance by going to excellent tire manufacturers like Continental getting both puncture resistance and performance from better rubbers. I hope you get compensated for your engineering Salesmanship!
I'm a cyclist first motorcyclist second all this talk of friction, filling voids excetera has me thinking about waxing my motorcycle chains just as I do my bike chains.... the principles are still the same cross platforms, modern motorcycle chains have X and O rings that hold oil between the plates/ pins .... maybe I'll try getting a non X-Ring motorcycle chain strip it of factory oil then wax it.... "sealed" chains (x/O rings chains) provide enormous amount of friction it's really difficult to bend a sealed motorcycle chain ..... don't know just thinking outside the box and applying some of this wonderful engineering from bicycling to motorcycling.... I know one thing's for sure I'm getting need a lot bigger ultrasonic and alot more wax 😅
That's a hard one as you really want a wet lube in between the rubber rings and the metal, not sure how well wax would work in that interface? We do have quite a few go-kart racers using HotWaxX with excellent results but those are not o-ring type chains.
@SILCAVelo thanks for the feedback! the kart guys... do you know what kind of chain they're using? On my motorcycle I would ditch the x or o-ring chain for a traditional chain and wax that ... similar to maybe what the karting guys are doing?
After watching this video, I was wondering if you've done any testing on non-round chainrings and if they increase chain losses due to: the increased articulation around the smaller portions, and the changing chain like from long to shorter caused by the different chainring diameters? Also do narrow white chainrings increase chain losses due to additional contact with the wider teeth?
Very interesting. I run silica super secret and it's great product. What about dirt particles, won't they make grooves bigger than 0.6 microns? What would you say about adding some micronized ptfe < 3ųm to fill in bigger irregularities or maybe boron nitride into silca molten wax? Personally I feel that the chain needs rewaxing after 300kms. This is about every third ride for me. Is there a way to improve that? Harder wax base? I thoroughly degreased the chain in multiple baths with ultrasound. I feel that the wax is maybe a bit to softish and one could get maybe even longer waxing intervals by having a bit harder wax.
Fantastic video, Josh, I particularly enjoyed the insights into tribology. I have a question that I'd love to hear your opinion on. I'm just about to take delivery of my new bike equipped with the Campagnolo Super Record 12-speed groupset. I want to use the best lube possible, not so much for power saving but more for longevity as chain, cassette and chain ring replacements will be expensive. Removing the chain for cleaning is more challenging as Campagnolo chains don't come with quick links and I don't think there's one available for the 12-speed chains. Would Silca Super Secret still be effective in getting the Tungsten Disulphide onto the chain plate surfaces with only on bike cleaning or would I need to use a less viscous product?
Hey Josh, curious your experience using your new hot melt wax product on various chains, and the durability results between brands? Shimano, SRAM, YBN, etc? Are there any that you wouldn't recommend due to tighter tolerances, and maybe less wax getting in the gaps, hence faster wear rate? Great video, you guys have obviously put a lot of thought behind your lubricants.
We have not done extensive durability testing with various coatings and such. I will say that our hot melt wax has over 100 world champ, olympic and ProTour wins across DA, Record, RED, and Izumi chains, but of course, the bikes are getting incredible cleaning and maintenance, so impossible to see longevity differences in the field. In theory, the more perfect the surface to begin with, the less well the wax and lube will adhere, but we use WS2 down to 400nm and the smoothest surfaces we see even in coated chains is typically around 500-600nm, so theoretically should still see some surface modification in these instances. To put the fit/tolerance of the chain components in perspective, the tightest fits in a chain will have a gap on the order 0.04mm while the WS2 molecules are 0.0004mm in size.. 100x smaller!
I have good example of tolerance stacking on my track chain. It's easily 2mm shorter over 100 links and fits tightly around the front of the 48 tooth chainring. The link pins are extremely tight fitting into their bushings. In my application this chain is marvelously smooth. I'm hoping that this Wipperman 108 connex chain is not limited to this one lot.
I admit I'm a 1x convert. There are unquestionably some trade-offs for 1x. You mentioned one here which is the cross-chain angle, and the other is the jumps (assuming you're trying to set up a system with comparable range to a 2x system). But there are some performance gains, to my knowledge. 1x systems can be lighter and more aerodynamic. There are the other less performance-oriented benefits like (in my opinion) a more fun riding experience, less maintenance, and a cleaner look. Then there are some aspects which I'm not sure of the performance benefits of. For example, since you have no front derailleur, which commonly needs to be adjusted, perhaps there's a benefit of no time where you're riding on a derailleur that is not performing optimally because it's between adjustments. Second, there's the possibility of a narrow-wide chainring. I'd love your thoughts on a comprehensive comparison of 1x vs. 2x performance that takes all the trade-offs into account, not just chain angle. Thoughts? :)
Don't get me wrong.. I'm a huge fan of simplicity and really love riding 1x setups, single speeds and pretty much anything with 2 wheels. My issues with 1x come into play when we are chasing speed or efficiency. So the thick/thin rings tend to run at higher friction, the increased necessity of cross chaining leads to high frictional losses and tiny cogs have additional frictional losses.. so if you hire me to advise you for something like the Olympics...it's hard to make almost any good argument for 1x unless you are on a bike that can only be setup that way. The real strength of 1x is that it allows considerable advantage to rear suspension designers, with a secondary advantage that frames can be made more cost effectively as FD mounting/location/reinforcement/cable routing is a massive engineering and manufacturing cost driver in the mtn bike world. For road, the aero advantages of 1x are offset by the much longer RD cage and large cogs. Weight mostly doesn't matter, but when it does matter, the additional friction of cross-chaining of your 1x system will cost you the equivalent of 300-500 grams on a 10% grade. So for me, it's best used for having bike fun but there are better options for bike racing. - Josh
@@SILCAVelo I find the claim that cross chaining and 10 percent grade is like adding 300-500 grams. Where did you get this info? In the research I've looked at, the larger cogs keeping the chain links from bending as much, more than makes up for the cross chaining bend. Also a smaller cog, going from 11t to 10t comes out to be about 1.5w loss in the bend of the chain where a chain that is not properly lubed could cause a loss of 7.5w. Not trying to contradict your claims, just interested where this info came from. I read about all this from ceramic speed's test they did in the past. I'm actually testing a 1x13 sram group that I'll have a video out soon on so just want to get as much info on this as I can. Thanks for the amazing video.
One thing I was wondering is if the Tungsten Disulphide particle is surounded by wax, wouldn't the wax act as a barrier preventing it from bonding to the metal.
Pressures inside the chain go into the thousands of PSI so the WS2 particles are essentially smeared into the crevices in the metal under load and are then held there by the wax coating over top.
Why do you hear people say that a part that needs to be manufactured very precisely has a “high tolerance”? Wouldn’t you say the tolerance [to error/variance] is very small?
Great point and one of those things that's definitely just been baked into the language over the years.. sort of like when people say they're pushing a 'big gear' the chain is actually physically running on a small gear! ;-)
I think the suggestion given on the podcast re: applying a drip-lube (they were specifically referring to drip-on wax lubes) to the chain was to cross-chain when applying and backpedaling to work the lube in as the opening and closing ofvthe gaps would help work the lube into the insides of the links.
Titanium disulfide is less lubricious, softer, less durable, smells bad, and has some additional health and safety warnings attached when compared to WS2. My understanding is that it is primarily valued for use in future battery and energy storage technologies over it's benefit as a lubricant. - Josh
Hi Josh! Thank you for the great content! Out of curiosity I have cleaned my chain with one of these chain cleaning tools and the submersion/shake method after! I can not get any extra dirt out! So that just as an fyi! I was also wondering about wether there is any difference between getting the wax just on the chain or on the chainrings/cassette also! Appreciate any insights!
So there is this thing called 'surface modification' which is the idea of using special particles matched to a surface that can either smooth the peaks, or fill the valleys.. there is some data that shows running this type of surface matched lubricants can help fill the voids in the mating surfaces of the cassette and chainring, but we are not at a 100% conclusive place here yet... yet. I will say that for hour records, olympics, world's, etc.. we will micro polish the cassette and chain rings, and even have a process that is a high velocity impingement of the WS2 on these surfaces that has proven to make the system considerably faster. I like to say that I'm often wrong but will never lie to you.. so taking that into consideration, we don't have enough data at this point to say that putting the lube on rings and cogs is helpful, but from other data that we do have, it is also almost certain to not hurt you.. Best - Josh
Ha!! I'm a huge fan of belt drive..I have a Canyon city bike with Gates belt and Alfine 11 speed internal hub.. it's like magic for commuting! Unfortunately they have higher friction than their metal counterparts so won't see them in racing for a bit! - Josh
This sounds so amazing until I start thinking about contamination!! Yes, we owe the characters in the history of chain a debt of gratitude as they really have gotten us to a point of amazing efficiency both frictional and cost wise!!
@@SILCAVelo Campagnolo could do this. They're good at adding high drag contact seals with exquisite high spec ceramic bearings like on their Super Record Ultra Torque BB! You"d gain nothing in performance, but they'd gain Euros!
Best video about chaine friction I have seen! Thanks!
Loving these videos! Josh - you’re a 21st century Sheldon Brown! Great knowledge.
Wow, thanks!
Wow, just finished binge listening to all the podcast episodes and now starting to work my way through CZcams. Thank you for sharing this level of knowledge.
Yes! Another reason to dump on the one by
This is a brilliant discussion, thank you. I just bought the Synergetic wet lube and can't wait to try it!
I got a counterfeit shimano chain off Amazon. It lasted only a couple hundred miles, maybe not even that long. I only discovered it was a fake because I was having issued and checked the wear and it was beyond worn.
Great video, really informative!
My high performance recumbent bike has almost 12 feet of chain. I clean it with the "shake in a bottle with solvent" method but I have to use a milk jug.
The downside, of course, is that this is a ton of chain. The upside is that cross chaining isn't a problem because of the long chain run.
I use Squirt lube. Takes forever, but works great!
Thanks for the note Michael, so tempting to make a comment about the size/length of your chain or to have thoughts about pulling it, but I'll refrain ;-) Milk jug sounds perfect for your use case, love the ingenuity and the upcycling!! If you like Squirt, I think you'll love Secret Chain Lube.. we consistently show lower friction AND longer re-lube intervals in testing across all temperatures. Some of this comes from the Tungsten Disulfide permanently modifying the chain surface, so even is cost was a big consideration or issue, you could start a chain with SSCL to get it really rubbed in and surface modified with the WS2 and then move to Squirt for maintenance to save costs.. - Josh
Great video, and a great explanation of tolerances and why chains get precipitously more expensive the more gears they're designed for.
This leads me to a question - would molybdenum disulfide be a reasonable wax additive if you were lubing, say, a 6-speed chain? These seem analogous to your 20- or 10-millionths bearings, where that particle size might be more appropriate.
I ask because I use an old ("vintage") steel road bike as a commuter, and the weather where I live means that wax is the ideal lubricant.
Hi Josh, great video! Really supports the argument that the application of the lube will be most effective on a brand new chain; before surface finish (where it counts) deviates from 0.6micron.
Thanks and yes, the sooner you start, the better the results and longer life for the chain!
Super interesting stuff. My thought is that if these ultra high finished products are so expensive to manufacture then why not settle for the “rougher surface” and match a larger particle to the gaps to make it flatter. Maybe it’s an order of magnitude difference and tungsten disulfide is still the best?
This is a great question. So the problem is that the roughness isn't consistent, and the more roughness, the more inconsistent it it.. I'll do a video on this showing the depths of the various imperfections, but in the case of this 0.6 micron surface, the range of imperfection probably varies by 0.2, but in a 6 micron surface, the range varies by say 2 micron, so it gets really, really hard to fill the roughness with the right sized particles as the target gets so much larger.. and even as you do fill them, the variance in the finished surface is quite big.. so NO, definitely better to spend the money to make the best possible surface and THEN modify it when seeking ultimate speed. There are other options as well, and I'll discuss that in the future video.. stay tuned!
218 likes and no dislikes! I love to see it
Why not just put a really small version of those 1 millionth tolerance ball bearings instead of what is essentially 120 journal bearings in the chain (Sarcasm). But I can actually see Ceramic Speed doing something similar and charging $1000 per chain, after all they did have that shaft drive prototype. On a more serious note, do chains get faster with wear since the pin and inner plates are theoretically lapping and decreasing surface roughness? Maybe a parabola with a max efficiency point and then a decrease due to wear?
Great video and an amazing head of hair
Thank you!! - Josh
Great Video! Please include your suggestions in all your videos for products like Chain Cleaners & Lubricants that fill the uneven surfaces of the Polished Metal on the Chains. I will be learning about Silca Super Secret Chain Lube, and I will try this out on my road bike!!! I have watched the video that you did with Dylan Johnson named "Your Tires Could Be Costing You Minutes. Tire Rolling Resistance with Josh Poertner". Excellent Video as well. I am taking your suggestions for faster tires and Latex Tubes; Because Your suggestions dove tail so well with my experience with tires. Over the years I have experienced the improvement in speed and performance by going to excellent tire manufacturers like Continental getting both puncture resistance and performance from better rubbers. I hope you get compensated for your engineering Salesmanship!
Has there ever been consideration given to moving the chainring in/out along with r.derailleur to help reduce cross chaining?
Have you forgotten front derailleur exists? Multiple chainrings helps to choose best chainline. I've seen some old systems event having 4 chainrings.
I'm a cyclist first motorcyclist second all this talk of friction, filling voids excetera has me thinking about waxing my motorcycle chains just as I do my bike chains.... the principles are still the same cross platforms, modern motorcycle chains have X and O rings that hold oil between the plates/ pins .... maybe I'll try getting a non X-Ring motorcycle chain strip it of factory oil then wax it.... "sealed" chains (x/O rings chains) provide enormous amount of friction it's really difficult to bend a sealed motorcycle chain ..... don't know just thinking outside the box and applying some of this wonderful engineering from bicycling to motorcycling.... I know one thing's for sure I'm getting need a lot bigger ultrasonic and alot more wax 😅
That's a hard one as you really want a wet lube in between the rubber rings and the metal, not sure how well wax would work in that interface? We do have quite a few go-kart racers using HotWaxX with excellent results but those are not o-ring type chains.
@SILCAVelo thanks for the feedback! the kart guys... do you know what kind of chain they're using? On my motorcycle I would ditch the x or o-ring chain for a traditional chain and wax that ... similar to maybe what the karting guys are doing?
After watching this video, I was wondering if you've done any testing on non-round chainrings and if they increase chain losses due to: the increased articulation around the smaller portions, and the changing chain like from long to shorter caused by the different chainring diameters? Also do narrow white chainrings increase chain losses due to additional contact with the wider teeth?
Very interesting. I run silica super secret and it's great product. What about dirt particles, won't they make grooves bigger than 0.6 microns? What would you say about adding some micronized ptfe < 3ųm to fill in bigger irregularities or maybe boron nitride into silca molten wax? Personally I feel that the chain needs rewaxing after 300kms. This is about every third ride for me. Is there a way to improve that? Harder wax base? I thoroughly degreased the chain in multiple baths with ultrasound. I feel that the wax is maybe a bit to softish and one could get maybe even longer waxing intervals by having a bit harder wax.
Fantastic video, Josh, I particularly enjoyed the insights into tribology. I have a question that I'd love to hear your opinion on. I'm just about to take delivery of my new bike equipped with the Campagnolo Super Record 12-speed groupset. I want to use the best lube possible, not so much for power saving but more for longevity as chain, cassette and chain ring replacements will be expensive. Removing the chain for cleaning is more challenging as Campagnolo chains don't come with quick links and I don't think there's one available for the 12-speed chains. Would Silca Super Secret still be effective in getting the Tungsten Disulphide onto the chain plate surfaces with only on bike cleaning or would I need to use a less viscous product?
Hey Josh, curious your experience using your new hot melt wax product on various chains, and the durability results between brands? Shimano, SRAM, YBN, etc? Are there any that you wouldn't recommend due to tighter tolerances, and maybe less wax getting in the gaps, hence faster wear rate? Great video, you guys have obviously put a lot of thought behind your lubricants.
We have not done extensive durability testing with various coatings and such. I will say that our hot melt wax has over 100 world champ, olympic and ProTour wins across DA, Record, RED, and Izumi chains, but of course, the bikes are getting incredible cleaning and maintenance, so impossible to see longevity differences in the field. In theory, the more perfect the surface to begin with, the less well the wax and lube will adhere, but we use WS2 down to 400nm and the smoothest surfaces we see even in coated chains is typically around 500-600nm, so theoretically should still see some surface modification in these instances. To put the fit/tolerance of the chain components in perspective, the tightest fits in a chain will have a gap on the order 0.04mm while the WS2 molecules are 0.0004mm in size.. 100x smaller!
I know I bought a good chain lube, but now I know I bought the best.
Thanks Clermont! - Josh
How about a grease for bearings with titanium disulfide?
If you mention the particles give a permanent layer, does that layer stay after stripping the chain with solvent before re-greasing?
I have good example of tolerance stacking on my track chain. It's easily 2mm shorter over 100 links and fits tightly around the front of the 48 tooth chainring. The link pins are extremely tight fitting into their bushings. In my application this chain is marvelously smooth. I'm hoping that this Wipperman 108 connex chain is not limited to this one lot.
I admit I'm a 1x convert. There are unquestionably some trade-offs for 1x. You mentioned one here which is the cross-chain angle, and the other is the jumps (assuming you're trying to set up a system with comparable range to a 2x system). But there are some performance gains, to my knowledge. 1x systems can be lighter and more aerodynamic. There are the other less performance-oriented benefits like (in my opinion) a more fun riding experience, less maintenance, and a cleaner look. Then there are some aspects which I'm not sure of the performance benefits of. For example, since you have no front derailleur, which commonly needs to be adjusted, perhaps there's a benefit of no time where you're riding on a derailleur that is not performing optimally because it's between adjustments. Second, there's the possibility of a narrow-wide chainring. I'd love your thoughts on a comprehensive comparison of 1x vs. 2x performance that takes all the trade-offs into account, not just chain angle. Thoughts? :)
Don't get me wrong.. I'm a huge fan of simplicity and really love riding 1x setups, single speeds and pretty much anything with 2 wheels. My issues with 1x come into play when we are chasing speed or efficiency. So the thick/thin rings tend to run at higher friction, the increased necessity of cross chaining leads to high frictional losses and tiny cogs have additional frictional losses.. so if you hire me to advise you for something like the Olympics...it's hard to make almost any good argument for 1x unless you are on a bike that can only be setup that way. The real strength of 1x is that it allows considerable advantage to rear suspension designers, with a secondary advantage that frames can be made more cost effectively as FD mounting/location/reinforcement/cable routing is a massive engineering and manufacturing cost driver in the mtn bike world. For road, the aero advantages of 1x are offset by the much longer RD cage and large cogs. Weight mostly doesn't matter, but when it does matter, the additional friction of cross-chaining of your 1x system will cost you the equivalent of 300-500 grams on a 10% grade. So for me, it's best used for having bike fun but there are better options for bike racing. - Josh
@@SILCAVelo Thanks so much for your thoughtful reply, Josh. Really appreciate it!
@@SILCAVelo I find the claim that cross chaining and 10 percent grade is like adding 300-500 grams. Where did you get this info? In the research I've looked at, the larger cogs keeping the chain links from bending as much, more than makes up for the cross chaining bend. Also a smaller cog, going from 11t to 10t comes out to be about 1.5w loss in the bend of the chain where a chain that is not properly lubed could cause a loss of 7.5w. Not trying to contradict your claims, just interested where this info came from. I read about all this from ceramic speed's test they did in the past. I'm actually testing a 1x13 sram group that I'll have a video out soon on so just want to get as much info on this as I can. Thanks for the amazing video.
One thing I was wondering is if the Tungsten Disulphide particle is surounded by wax, wouldn't the wax act as a barrier preventing it from bonding to the metal.
Pressures inside the chain go into the thousands of PSI so the WS2 particles are essentially smeared into the crevices in the metal under load and are then held there by the wax coating over top.
Why do you hear people say that a part that needs to be manufactured very precisely has a “high tolerance”? Wouldn’t you say the tolerance [to error/variance] is very small?
Great point and one of those things that's definitely just been baked into the language over the years.. sort of like when people say they're pushing a 'big gear' the chain is actually physically running on a small gear! ;-)
Josh about turning the corner. If you are dripping on would it help to lube both top and bottom of the chain?
I think the suggestion given on the podcast re: applying a drip-lube (they were specifically referring to drip-on wax lubes) to the chain was to cross-chain when applying and backpedaling to work the lube in as the opening and closing ofvthe gaps would help work the lube into the insides of the links.
Hey Josh, ‘wondering why tungsten disulfide, rather than titanium disulfide? Cost? Better? Thanks.
Titanium disulfide is less lubricious, softer, less durable, smells bad, and has some additional health and safety warnings attached when compared to WS2. My understanding is that it is primarily valued for use in future battery and energy storage technologies over it's benefit as a lubricant. - Josh
Josh, how permanently does the WS2 adhere to the metal? Will it come out if I need to submerge the chain in degrease again?
Some of it will permanently impregnate the metal surface, over time the chain surface will actually get faster because of this!!
Wax is not permanent..
With friction heart... It is melting..
Am I missing something here 🤔🙂
Hi Josh! Thank you for the great content! Out of curiosity I have cleaned my chain with one of these chain cleaning tools and the submersion/shake method after! I can not get any extra dirt out! So that just as an fyi! I was also wondering about wether there is any difference between getting the wax just on the chain or on the chainrings/cassette also! Appreciate any insights!
So there is this thing called 'surface modification' which is the idea of using special particles matched to a surface that can either smooth the peaks, or fill the valleys.. there is some data that shows running this type of surface matched lubricants can help fill the voids in the mating surfaces of the cassette and chainring, but we are not at a 100% conclusive place here yet... yet. I will say that for hour records, olympics, world's, etc.. we will micro polish the cassette and chain rings, and even have a process that is a high velocity impingement of the WS2 on these surfaces that has proven to make the system considerably faster. I like to say that I'm often wrong but will never lie to you.. so taking that into consideration, we don't have enough data at this point to say that putting the lube on rings and cogs is helpful, but from other data that we do have, it is also almost certain to not hurt you.. Best - Josh
1:38 but Josh - "plastic chains" do exist... it's called belt drive. :)
Ha!! I'm a huge fan of belt drive..I have a Canyon city bike with Gates belt and Alfine 11 speed internal hub.. it's like magic for commuting! Unfortunately they have higher friction than their metal counterparts so won't see them in racing for a bit! - Josh
Good thing the link pins don't have tiny ball bearings assembled by elves! Only pro teams and millionaires could afford them.
This sounds so amazing until I start thinking about contamination!! Yes, we owe the characters in the history of chain a debt of gratitude as they really have gotten us to a point of amazing efficiency both frictional and cost wise!!
@@SILCAVelo Campagnolo could do this. They're good at adding high drag contact seals with exquisite high spec ceramic bearings like on their Super Record Ultra Torque BB! You"d gain nothing in performance, but they'd gain Euros!