I Think E-Bikes Are A Problem
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- čas přidán 8. 03. 2024
- This is a video 2 years in the making, with one theme... e-bikes. They are everywhere folks and I don't think it's good for the cycling industry, which is suffering right now. These things are big, they are fast, they are taking up more space on trails and pathways and roads... and they're increasingly being ridden by people who don't know what they are doing. They also don't encourage cycling... you know CYCLING... peddling a bike.
I tie a number of things together in this video and my conclusion is... e-bikes are not good for cycling or the cycling industry.
#e-bikes #cycling #bikeindustry - Sport
A couple of key points:
Ebikes are the fastest growth in transportation worldwide.
They are energy efficient and reduce the use of cars for short distance travel.
The issue you express concern about is behavioral ie don't blame the vehicle, blame the driver.
Horse and carriage drivers made the same complaint when cars began entering the roadway.
This is not in anyway to dismiss your incident, just to add perspective.
Bicycle lanes will become congested with this growth and inconvenient for those used to "the good old days".
I am 69 years old, have recently purchased a small ebike, 400 watt motor, max speed of 20 mph. Having ridden a motorcycle in the past, and recognizing that one of the biggest risks is not being aware of what's behind you, immediately installed a rearview mirror on purchase.
You can at least know that your health is benefitting from cardio exercise of pedaling.
Peace
Thanks for your comment. I don't believe my thoughts on e-bikes in any way can be compared to the push back against cars after the age of horse and buggy. I'm not going to repeat what I said in my video, but I will reiterate... I want to encourage people to ride bikes, not motorcycles. As for energy efficiency. There is nothing energy efficient about a society that continues to plug in more and more batteries. I am a cyclist...no batteries required. All the best.
You make the case for e-bike use....on roads where motorized vehicles belong, not on cycling paths meant for non-motorized vehicles.
Nice rant. As a licensed motorcyclist who ride analog bikes I see the same thing. But my angle is education, children should be taught in school on rules of the road like Dutch children. I was hit head on by a cyclists going the wrong way on a one way cycle path. Keep talking and raise awareness. Thanks!
Amazing cyclists have to follow the rules of the road, but children don't get taught until they are 16. All the best.
Yup. I was taught at a young age how to ride the bike paths.... but my parents used to ride with pros on group rides. 99% of the population have no clue and I have seen them. walking 4 a breast on the bike trail, dogs everywhere, stopped and dillydallying. I hope you all stay safe out there.
I'm 75 and my wife is 72. We;ve been riding ebikes for 9 years, putting on about 2400 miles together. At 12 mph, that's over 200 hours of riding. Yes, we go at bike speeds, I might add another 800 miles solo. Last year, 500 of them were on a regular bike.Here in the midwest, ebikes have overwhelmed the bike paths yet. It's like 10% on a weekend, less on weekdays when no one is out.
You're right. Too many people don't have bike trail etiquette, but that includes regular cyclists. It's common for people to ride two abreast and take up 5/8-2/3 of the lane, Very few people call out when passing. At my age, I'm used to it. My wife is used to it. We try to get out when there's less people.
Happy riding.
You need to specify which class e-bike you are talking about up front. You mentioned a throttle ebike near the end, but I am assuming you are talking about all of them. I ride a class 1 e-bike (pedal assist with max 20mph). If you ban those, ban elite riders too. I can’t keep up with my 13 year old son while I am on my e-bike and he’s on a Scott Spark. He averages 15 mph on mountain bike trails. Which is way faster than I can ride my e-bike. In paved areas, he regularly gets over 20mph on flat sections. Riding an e-bike over 20 is extremely difficult, unless it’s downhill. I work hard to keep up in trail mode on my Canyon Spectral:On.
Without the e-bike, I wouldn’t be able to ride with my son.
As another poster mentioned, it is the rider, not the bike. Your crash would have happened regardless of the bike. It was the idiot on the bike.
Thanks for the comment. I'm not interested in banning any bikes. All the best.
[If you ban those, ban elite riders too.] You completely miss the point. Power assist is motorized, no matter how you cut it. And there's quite a few of us in our seventies more than able to out-cycle the average user.
If you can't keep up with your son walking on a sidewalk, does it then follow that you can use a motorbike or car on the sidewalk?
I don't mean to be brutal about this, as at some point my cycling prowess will diminish (God help me) but it doesn't give me the right to assume I can use a boat in a swimming pool, or go flying in a 'motorized glider'.
The entire ‘keeping it pure’ is why the English drove the Puritans out of England
@@stephensaines7100 you also need to read up on the fundamental distinction of a Class-1 pedal assist bike and anything else which has a motor.
@@stephensaines7100 I'm not sure I get all your points, but to be clear... I do not want to ban e-bikes!
I’m sorry you were hurt. I can definitely see the emotion you felt after your accident. It must have been very scary. I’ll start by saying I’m 52 years old and I ride a Trek e-bike. I love cycling but my bum knee made it difficult to climb some of the harder hills in Calgary. E-biking has allowed me to get back outside and my husband and I can ride together and both enjoy ourselves. I can appreciate why you feel the way you do about e-biking but I’d like to think I ride with courtesy and because I’ve broken my knee I’m not looking to go fast or ride dangerously. I just want to have fun, like most people. I went out on the weekend for the first time this year and was passed by a regular road bike - he did announce himself which I appreciated but he was going way too fast and on a blind corner at that. If someone would have been riding/walking towards us we all would have been in trouble. I think if we all learn the rules and use courtesy we can all share the paths. We have some amazing paths in Calgary. We have to share them with pedestrians, cyclists, roller bladers etc. and all different fitness levels. There will be respectful and disrespectful people in each group. I’m tired of hearing about how this group is better than that group . It makes me feel bad about something that I enjoy so much. I hope you recover and are back out on your bike soon. Take care.
Dang, I thought you had some footage to show. Bottom line is, you can have a-holes on any type of bike, scooter or skateboard. It’s not about what type of bike they are riding, it’s about the person that is riding the bike, and their behavior. I’ve been on our bike hike and had crazy riders recklessly zoom by me on just regular bikes, but that’s just my experience. I wouldn’t blame the bike, or what type of bike, so much as I would blame the person that is riding the bike.
Swiss guy here, we had the same cycling and ebike boom during covid. Lots of older people that have never ridden a bicycle in 30+ years bought ebikes (pedal assist models), and it was crazy to see the lack of skills. Lots of them had pretty bad or even deadly accidents. But there's also a tendency that lots of people now use their pedal assist bikes as a commuting replacement for a car, which is a good thing. So not all e-bike related things are bad.
As a path oriented cyclist I would ask what your protocols are for people who are walking in front of you, ware walking with a pet on a leash, walking with pet not on a leash, runners with headphones on etc. and overtaking someone. Double these obstacles because these same occurrences take place in the opposite direction to your travel as well. We need to be even more vigilant on a path-because of all the variables-even more so than a street ride.. I have always my safety is dependent on ME because I cannot control the actions of others. I wear a helmet, use daytime running lights a bell and often a loud but firm voice when passing anything. Yeah I know that bonehead was at fault for your accident because he didn't look before proceeding-you can only do so much to be seen and heard when riding on a path--but you have to be constantly on guard for any scenario you may have to react to when around other people................
Bingo! In central PA there is a posted right of way - horses, then pedestrians then the bike. ALL bikes are at the bottom. Foot traffic stops and changes directions instantly. It took me a while to mature as a bike rider to slow down and announce. Most people are riding for the exercise. Slowing to a near stop and then getting back up to speed when appropriate is great.
Great commentary and thanks for the discussion points. I have an analogue mountain bike and an eMTB. My ebike will not move forward unless I pedal it. Your point is well taken concerning e-bikes with throttles. Those are motor bikes. My ebike enables me to ride further than I would otherwise in this hilly area where I live. Destination rides are a lot of fun. It has also helped me get back in shape while I recover from some recent health issues. I am now in decent enough condition to ride the analogue MTB again thanks to e.
Cheap e motor bikes are going to be problem moving forward. It’s a bit like a kid with a brand new driving license picking up an Audi R8 just because they can afford it. Doesn’t happen often, but they don’t know how to drive it, like the e motor bike rider that cut you off. The important distinction here is between an ebike and an emotor bike. However, it’s not the tool it’s the fool.
Great points. I am not against these electric bikes, they can have a great benefit, I am concerned that they are hurting cycling. The fools, as you put it, are my other concern. Apparently the city is looking into e-bike use after a number of complaints.
why doe it matter if someone is going 20mph on throttle vs. pedal assist? isn't standing without pedaling more stable? (it is)
I've ridden a pedal-assist e-bike. It's a motor bike. One barely needs to spin the cranks to motor uphill. I suppose it makes you think you're actually riding a bike if you move your legs in circles while the motor propels you.
@@LVQ-so5thwhy do you care
I hear what you are saying but in your description of the accident, that could have just as easily happened if a person on a regular old fat-bike decided to brake hard in front of you. I am in agreement in that if the bike has an accelerator it's no longer a bicycle and those should not be on bike paths, bike trails or bike lanes. Pedal assist is a different animal though. You had an accident and now you are hurt through no fault of your own but the bike the guy was on isn't to blame, it's the idiot that was riding it.
why does it matter if someone is going 20mph on a throttle or on pedal assist? standing while not pedaling is far more stable, is it not? when we want to tackle a bumpy section, we stop pedaling to increase stability.
E-bikers have little to no bike-handling skills because almost all of them are noobs.
E-bikers have little to no bike-handling skills. That's dangerous when they're riding at speeds far beyond their limitations.
@@FullSugarBrah well that's a pretty big assumption there. I mean, that person who has no basic bike experience that goes and buys a E-Bike is likely to have a skill deficit but what about the people who have been on traditional bike for years, like myself or even people that might have skills developed by riding various types of motorcycles. All that said, that same person with no basic skills or experience is still dangerous on a regular bike.
By the way, I coach a high school NICA race team, and it's noteworthy that the dedicated athletes still prefer traditional bikes. Even when I offer my son the choice of using an electric mountain bike, he chooses his standard hardtail mountain bike because he's focused on competing in races.
e bikes are not the problem it is some of the people riding them are the issue, here in the uk there are quite strict restrictions but there are still problems ,once again the few are getting everyone a bad name. I ride an ebike as now i could not go out with the guys who i ride with and keep up as an older rider it keeps me able to ride but i dont know what the answer is. There does seem to be a lack of respect and common sense throughout society that is where the change needs to happen.
Great comment. All the best from Calgary.
I don’t think that this is an e-bike problem. Regardless of what type of bike, inexperienced riders still do the same thing. I have been on group rides or come across a rider stopping in the middle of a trail with little to no regard to anyone else about. Education and experience are what most riders need. If you are riding trails or paths that are busy is going to exasperate the problem. We all need to share the trails and share our experiences with others, so that we can all ride safely. Having a driving license doesn’t make the roads any safer, because drivers don’t always know or follow all the rules of the road. Always be aware of other road/path/trail users and don’t expect them to always do the right thing.
After riding bikes all my life and I just bought an Aventon Aventure 2. It came with an extra battery included, normally a $500 addition, for a total of $2000 delivered. With both batteries it has a 80 mile range without pedaling and more range the more you pedal. It weighs 75 pounds and has 4 inch wide tires. It is a beast. The big advantage is that I can pedal when I want and let the ebike motor take over completely when I want to rest but still keep moving. I think it extends the biking experience for older folks.
And you're loving the hell out of it, aren't you?? That's great!!
My wife and I are planning to pick up a couple Aventure.2s when we move to AZ next month. Can't wait!!!! (Maybe we'll even make it in time for the free battery!)
So does a gas-powered motorbike.
I recently switched from a road bike to a pedal assist E-bike after a leg nerve seizure messed with my standing balance. It will definitely extend my biking beyond my 71 years. (Trek Turbo Vado 4 Step thru)
E-bikes are tools (exercise/transportation) and like any tool can be a big benefit or abused. Same is true for regular bikes. I've been on a path many times when a rode bike passed me at at 25+MPH. Way to fast for a path that also has joggers, walkers and such.
I have had the opposite experience. I rode regular bicycles most of my life. Now, these were not the upper end bikes. Mine was a Schwin 3 speed which my wife bought me as a wedding gife 53 years ago. Then I met a friend at church who had just purchased an ebike. My brother, then 70, had done the same. Both told me how much fun they were having getting out and riding around town. So, I purchased an ebike and began to ride on our town's bike / hike trail. Within the first 6 months I was forced off the trail by high speed riders on sport racing bikes who had no courtesy and even yelled at me that I had not right to be on that trial. I'm 77 and I read the trail use regulations. Ebikes are allowed, but courtesy is recommended when passing a hiker or another rider.
I totally agree with you about e-bike.
It like the whole world hopped on this fad, because... It's EASY and can go faster.
People have gotten LAZY.
Bicycling USED TO BE for EXERCISE and fun while doing it. As well as a cheap way of transportation.
EXERCISE is difficult, especially if one is out of shape! However even top in shape riders experience difficulty when going beyond their normal resting pace.
Exercise builds muscle, endurance and goals which can only be achieved by discipline and hard work.
And that's what brings joy and success. Working through the difficulties and challenges to achieve a physical goal that was once unachievable.
E-bikes can't truly compare to normal traditional bicycling the old fashioned way.
Those batteries are a whole nother topic that is hugely toxic to the environment, for all those environmentalists people.
Lithium batteries are extremely toxic to the ground. So disposing is going to be a major problem in the future.
But who cares... We're having fun and going fast as well as pedaling much easier.
Wrong answer!
I will always ride the old fashioned way.
Muscle power and determination and patience.
You are spot on! I ride my bicycle in NYC and Westchester on the Empire State Trail. I average 11-12 mph. Ebikes pass me within a foot, with no warning, and very fast. I stopped riding in the streets due to the dangers. Now I have to deal with ebikes. Bike trails have pedestrians and children. Ebikes weigh 50 to 70 pounds plus rider. The laws of physics dictate a disastrous outcome if it hits you at 20-30 mph. Now even NYC Citibikes are electric. They use the trail also. In my opinion they should share the road with automobiles, not with pedestrians and cyclists. At the very least only pedal assist (no throttle) may be considered on trails.
You seem to recognize the big difference between a pedal assist bicycle and a throttled bicycle. Good for you. A vehicle that doesn’t require peddling and accelerates with a thumb press or twist of the wrist is indeed an electric motorcycle, and should be kept off bike paths and sidewalks. My wife rides, a pedal assist specialized Creo. She keeps it at the lowest setting necessary to keep up with me and some of my friends. This allows her to ride at a higher speed for longer distances and longer times and we have seen a marked increase in her fitness when she goes over to her specialized Roubaix bicycle. On her pedal assist, her heartbeat goes up and she really has to work to keep up with other riders just as I and the other riders must really work to keep up. Thank you for recognizing the difference between an electric motorcycle and pedal assist. I was passed at 25mph on a bike path last year by a guy who turned right across my path after passing. He went off the path and literally threw a rooster tail as he shredded the corner like the dirt bike rider he was. Skillful, but with total lack of respect for traffic around him. It is a multi-faceted problem. Here in SW Florida we are often swarmed by e-bike gangs of seniors, and I’m 69! Wha are disinterested in traffic. They are like 5 year olds swerving all over on tricycles unaware of other path/road users… Now you got me ranting…😏
While I appreciate your viewpoint, I must heartily disagree. I rode everywhere on a Peugoet racing bike in early adulthood. Then I was inactive for a couple of decades. Now, at 76 I’ve become an avid mountain biker. Without the assistance that an Ebike provides, I doubt I would have ever made the attempt.
The belief that one doesn't expend effort when riding an Ebike is misguided. While the energy output on an analog bike may be more significant during a given ride, one generally rides three times the distance on an E-bike - in half the time. Believe me, it's a work out!
I have two Ebikes: a Sondors Rockstar with a throttle, and a Specialized Turbo Levo. They each have distinctly different purposes. I rarely use the throttle on my Rockstar except after coming to a dead stop at the bottom of a hill. It’s a nice option to have.
Bicycle etiquette is a whole different topic. Good trail etiquette is not the exclusive purview of analog bike riders. I've witnessed nasty crashes and know of fatalities among road bike enthusiasts who did not make good judgments.
I agree that Ebikes will dominate the future of cycling and honestly believe it to be a net positive. It brings new riders into the sport and creates more innovation. A purist approach will not provide more safety. It only creates hostility and division among those who seek the same source of enjoyment from a truly wonderful sport.
Here in Australia the 250w no twist throttle law works. Higher wattage are classed as mopeds/ motorcycles that require rego, lights and safety gear are not allowed on bike paths but ok for private off road use only…everyone seems happy so far. Watch out for those hoons!!!
All I can hear is "you kids get off my lawn". What your going to find out is stupid is everywhere. If it wasn't the guy on the ebike it would be the walker or runner blasting music that just decides to change direction on the path without looking and can't hear you coming. You can't fix stupid so you just have to be prepared to run into it every once and a while.
Ya well stupid is about to go to jail or be sued because they are currently drafting new ebike regulations in the US & all ebikes will have to be registered & you have to have a license & there is going to be a age limit my guess is insurance & a helmet law will follow. It’s unfortunate that those dumb people you refer to ruined it for everyone & now the government & states had to step in to regulate it.
@@Casitascrawlers guess I better get an ebike fast enough to lose the cops then?
"Everywhere" doesn't make it right. Learn some logic, boy.
@@CasitascrawlersReally? I think there will be a crackdown on moto-style e-bikes, but these only represent a small percentage of total e-bike sales. Any effective e-bike licensing and registration program would demand law enforcement involvement. Since they don't seem keen on policing bike theft now, I wouldn't expect police to rush into enforcing a slew of new e-bike laws either.
Also, many states don't even have helmet laws for motorcycles., so what makes you think there will be a wave of such laws for E-Bikes?
That's a bit unfair. Some eBikes are pretty big and heavy, and move faster than a walker or runner. So the comparison isn't entirely valid.
In any case, this debate reminds me of the arguments over sailing dingys and speedboats. Most places allow you to sail more or less anything you like (up to 45 or 50 feet long) without a licence or insurance. The regulations change as soon as you fit a motor, because inexperienced, untrained, unlicensed and uninsured operators zipping around crowded waterways are an accident waiting to happen.
I am less bothered by motor-assisted bikes, which help people pedal. They seem more like sailing dingys to me and compatible with bicycle infrastructure.
The bigger issue is the eBikes with a throttle, which are essentially motor scooters. If we don't allow gas-powed scooters in bike lanes, why should eBikes with similar performance characteristics be allowed. The same applies to licenses and insurance.
It's not a turf battle. It's a discussion about what is safe and sensible.
Cheers
I'm an avid cyclist, runner, and weightlifter. I have raced road bike and ran 5 marathons. I currently own two bikes, a Trek Checkpoint SLF 5 and a Giant EX Pro pedal assist e-bike. Where I live it is very hilly, with usually 1000ft per 10 miles of riding. I bought the e-bike for fun, recovery, and commuting with loaded panniers. I find it's great on days when I need to take it easier and can stay in a zone 2. I agree with you, I don't like the fat tire throttle e-bike. I see too many of those. Most are not pedaling but using them as e-motorcycles. I have found younger kinds zipping by too fast and not being mindful of their surroundings. If I'm on a bike path with other riders, I slow down before passing and use a bell to get their attention. I don't trust anyone to hear or see me. Most responsible adults, I've witnessed riding e-bikes, are fine, it's the teenagers, whom I have witnessed, being erratic with them on trails or paths.
Those darn kids. Thanks for the comment.
Fellow middle-aged Canuck (Toronto) here with several decades of cycling in the rear view. I don't have an eBike but do have five of the push pedal variety. GM license since 16, bike messenger, tourer, commuter, MTB'er...that's where I'm coming from.
No doubt about it, the explosion of eBikes is the most significant development in personal mobility in memory. All the benefits of a low-powered motorcycle without the bureaucracy and expense. I don't understand the chauvinism from traditional cyclists: eBikes (and other short-hop micro-mobility eVehicles) represent more choice--perhaps one we'll avail ourselves of in old age--and freedom. Their riders have infrastructure needs identical to cyclists and so align with our general agenda. That's the good.
The bad? Too many eRiders have abysmal cycling skills and habits--no argument. Many cyclists do too but the difference is eRiders shortcomings are amplified with electric power, speed and weight and so are apt to be more consequential.
And as CoaS noted, some of these eBicycles are (low powered) motorcycles. Period. Ostensibly they conform to regulations (wattage and speed caps) but there's obviously no enforcement going on. I'll leave the exploding batteries for another day, but let's just acknowledge the technology and its rampant misapplications and lack of standards need to be addressed. Here in Toronto it's the wild west with eVespas, eUniwheelers, eStand-up-Scooters, bicycles, pedestrians, rollerbladers, etc all amok on multi-use paths.
So we should embrace the technology by taming it. At the end of the day it's all about getting around in clean, efficient, convenient and enjoyable ways. There's no reason why eBikes, properly ridden and vetted, shouldn't have a role to play here.
Your rant is understandable given the event cited, even if it's 2 years and a couple of leaps in e-bike technology late. In this day and age, the term E-bike is far too broad to simply lump them all together and say they’re collectively a problem. Clueless, inconsiderate riders are the problem, an E-bike just magnifies the effect. Personally, the Santa Cruz Heckler SL I purchased in January - my first E-bike - is the perfect solution to a problem. After riding pretty hardcore mountain biking for the last 25 years, my 62 year old body still craves the same climbs and downhills, but my stamina doth protest. Once I felt that minimal, measured assistance with pedaling, on a proven full suspension platform of respectable weight, I knew a problem had been solved. So I respectfully disagree with the notion that every E-bike is a problem, but I can certainly see how an inexperienced or careless rider becomes more of a problem when on an E-bike.
Hi mate. You are spot on!! I live in Western Australia, with plenty of beautiful cycle lanes. E-bikes are good for handicapped and older people, that would love to get out like the rest of us. BUT, there are WAY to many (young) hooligans on e-bikes and "modified" e-bikes, that can't even ride and handle a normal push bike properly! They go too fast and have no regard for other users on the cycle lanes. And like you said..., for this reason, I rather prefer to ride on a normal road, and deal with normal traffic. Thanks for your input. Take it easy :)
John, I wish I could take you for a beverage - this is a great topic to discuss over a few. There will be irresponsible people for sure and an area where the tech is WAY AHEAD of the laws. As an avid (and older)regular MTB’r I am conscious of incidents in the middle of nowhere as decent downhills become more dangerous as e-bikes climb faster in the opposite direction. I'm sure of there is no right or wrong answer, particularly because when I get too old and less capable in a few years, I'll want one to continue to enjoy this sport. I know, however that several jurisdictions around the world are facing the same dilemma - to regulate and how.
This topic has been a growing concern for me as electric grows. I truly understand people wanting to buy these bikes, perhaps I will want one in the future, but cycling is suffering. I often marvel at the simplicity of the bicycle and how it has remained pretty much the same over more than 100 years. Unfortunately I think e-bikes are a threat to that simplicity and the purity of peddling a bike.
Only ever a mere hobbyist bicycler here.
I now ride my "Hase Lepus" recumbent trike w/E-assist here (no balance, wheelchair & forearm crutches).
Over 30-years recumbent experience here.
Putting on solid rubber tires. Cannot get off/on to fix flat tire!
7-12mph is my typical speed. Self-imposed speed maximum is 17mph. (70-yo senior.)
No one would ever realize that I have E-assist.
NFL-size rider with PERFECT; 250W "Class 1," w/Rohloff gearbox here. 250W is European E-bike rules.
"E-motorcycles" with, or without pedals, should ONLY be on automotive streets and roads!
"Class 1 & 2" E-assist only should be on bicycle paths.
Adult and Minor hotrodders are getting hugely problematic!
Communities beginning to already have numbers to call for violations.
Police on cycles, mounted cameras AND volunteer secretive observations are already becoming recognized as being needed.
Immature E-bikes on bicycle paths WILL and ARE turning Bicycle Paths into Bicycle Expressways!
AKA: "Jason Stillwater" in the recumbent world.
Another funny thought is that in my town, it is the boomers on eBikes that are sometimes a hazard. So its 50 and 60 year olds that dont know how to ride worth shit. But at least that they are out getting exercise.
I keep seeing people here in Canada walking/riding on the wrong side of the road and although there aren't any laws on the trail I ride at some point people have to recognize if the trail is busy they had better stick to road rules. Pass only on the left, and stick to the right are pretty basic rules to follow to help prevent a lot of collisions. I come up behind walkers with headphones on often when they finally do hear/see me they often jump to the left, right where I should be if I'm overtaking them from behind. Many joggers who jog alone are the ones I can trust. They wear their earbuds and stick in the rt lane. They stick to basic road rules so they can zone out with their headphones on and do their run. I totally get that but wow, so many spaced out people walking with headphones on as though nobody uses the trail but them. It boggles my mind. I can't help but think it's gotten worse since the legalization of weed. Again, I'm not against people doing their thing, just realize you need to stay on the rt if you plan on taking yourself out of the general flow of traffic. I learn from riding off-road on dirtbikes a long time ago never to go over a blind hill on the wrong side of the road. I watch two of my friends end up in wheelchairs from hitting each other at the crest of the hill.
Sorry for your accident. One, I agree that bike products and prices are way over priced for the average rider. I was not aware that e-bikes were relatively inexpensive so appreciate your viewpoint there. Second, totally agree with your viewpoint regarding the hazards of e-bike operators. I don’t know what the solution is E.g. licensing, driver training, banning from cycle trails) but the current situation is dangerous to cyclists and joggers. Lastly, may I ask what bar tape you use? Are you happy with it? I am looking at Lizard Skins in crimson red.
Thanks for the comment. The tape I have in thus video and on my bike is from Mountain Equipment Co-op. A standard cork with and adhesive strip down the middle. I did get some new tape for Christmas. Instead of red it is black with red accents from Rock Bros. I haven't put it on the bike yet, but plan to soon. I don't have much experience with Lizard Skins other than a shock cover and chain stay cover I purchased years ago. All the best and ride safely.
The e-bike you ran into by your description was most likely a Super 73 or Surron. No self respecting Santa Cruz Heckler eMTB owner would be riding on a bike path with roadies. Your video makes it seem like you group eMTB riders and Super 73/Surron riders together as a problem. This discussion reminds me of skiers who hated snow boarders in the early days. It's a bummer that you crashed. Glad it wasn't more serious. You are vilifying all e-bikes including eMTB riders. I've owned multiple Santa Cruz, GT, Canyon, and Rocky Mountain analog bikes. I recently purchased the new Specialized Turbo Levo SL and all I can say is if you ever get on a super light eMTB you will have hard time going back to your analog bike. I get the physical challenge and sense of accomplishment of climbing. But nothing beats the smile you get from lapping flowy downhill over and over again. Good luck on the bike paths.
Exactly . The only place I ride my emtb is off road. I go during the week and rarely encounter someone else on the trail.
The title brought me in, as I ride class 1 e-bikes. And I actually agree with you to the most point. I have ridden class 2 and 3 e-bikes, and while they are fun, but I can also see the problems they can cause.
I also ride motorcycles, and grew up riding dirt bikes. I don’t really consider a C2/3 e-bike a motorcycle, but I do consider them mopeds. I mean the old gas powered mopeds also had pedals as well.
In my 50's after a long life of riding all kinds of different bikes I ended up with a fixed-gear road bike and an eBike for getting groceries. IMO eBikes are great, fixed-gear is great, I give them each half of my time. Maybe my city is different but I see a dozen road bikes for every eBike, not a big deal really.
Hi John, I live near some stretches of large hills. I thought about buying an ebike to make this hills more tolerable and pulled the trigger sitting in traffic for 40 minutes for a 4 mile drive. It was a class 1 pedal assist ebike and I try using the assistance as little as possible. I enjoyed riding that ebike so much, 3 months later I have now bought a regular bike and I'm taking that bike up the same hills I needed the assistance for.
I think your concerns are valid and I can only hope that the future has more of people like me encouraged to ride more on regular bikes and less of the pathway locusts. Personally, I would not shed a tear class 2/3 ebikes were banned from the pathways or even overall.
Thanks for the comment. There is a great deal of accomplishment when you finish a good hard ride. I'm glad you're enjoying your bike. All the best.
As a 6-foot tall, 275-pound bike commuter and cycling enthusiast dating back decades who commutes in a hilly city, such a ban would definitely be a problem for me. Aside from the fact that such bans already exist but are nearly impossible to enforce, as a commuter I often have to ride up steep hills with traffic. I found this to be dicey on my regular bike for several years -- and not much better on my Class 2 bike -- at my size.
I still ride my regular bike on nice days and on any group fitness rides. But my more powerful new e-bike isn't just replacing trips on my regular bike: it's replacing car trips as well.
You are right in many ways,but i think the problem is not the e-bike,or if it is 10kw motor in it.I think the problem is how you use it,the problem is in the users brain,otherwise we would have to ban Maserattis,lamborginis,ferraris etc just because they are to powerful and to fast.I am 56 ,i pedaled enough,you cannot go anywhere without climbing a bloody hill here so the e-bike is very helpful.
This makes me think of how unusual how common driving cars is. It is also surprising how more crashes or wrecks dont happen. The education or study needed to obtain licensing is certainly part of what makes less crashes or wrecks common. I think the safety also comes from culture embracing driving to such an extent it is impractical not to own and drive a car in many maybe even most places. I know the area i live in not having a car is likely to make it very difficult to remain employed. Even having much of a social life is difficult without a car around here. Public buses are a thing here during daytime but even in the daytime it can be difficuly to find a bus route that is is convenient with a work schedule. The drop off or pick up maybe hours before or after your schedule starts or ends. The cost of cars is a significant expense. Those without them struggling to find employment will also struggle to be able to afford a car. The cost may also be another factor in driving safety. All the drivers in their cars dont want their expensive investment that is a practical necessity to their employment being damaged. So if one driver is driving risky the others stay clear, honk horns, call police, and that creates accountability on the driving endangering others. You make a good point about the realitively inexpensive e bike availability compared to regular bikes. That was a major factor in why j chose to purchase an e bike to get to work. Affording a car would have been difficult with my current situation and income. The ebike i chose was a purchase i afforded easily and maintenance costs dont stress me financially. Experienced drivers are in the majority with cars. Im not sure if experienced cyclists have the same majority with the accessibility and popularity e bikes are having. That could be a difference between driving and cycling along with the difference of motored and nonmotored bikes sharing same paths. Having a majority of experienced users creates a safer environment for the everyone. The inexperienced benefit from observing the experienced and having the option to imitate their safer behaviors. Having a larger portion of inexperienced users could be creating an increase of higher risk behaviors. Finally the infrastructure creating for car culture is incredible. Its mostly pavement, signs, painted lines, and lights. Yet most understand and obey the system of those things. Bike trails lack that infrastructure. So newer riders like myself may not know the to laws, rules or common practices of trail riding like more experienced cyclists do.
With those thoughts explained i will know say i enjoy my e bike. I havent ridden any bike paths or trails yet because im not sure i fully understand the rules to do so. I mean both legal rules and the cultural or common etiquette rules of more experienced cyclists that have been using those trails and paths for a long time. Also i bought a electric road bike with tires intended for road use. Not sure how well it would do on trails or paths. I mostly stay on road bike lanes and occasionally take a lane shared with automobiles when needed. Those occasions can be intimidating and scary since car drivers dont always want to share the road and seem to act differently to bikes. My bike peddal assists up to 24mph and i currently struggle to get it much faster with my own pedal power. On 25 mph roads cars make an effort to cross into the lane intended to go the other direction to pass even when ive been going 25 mph. I got up to 30 downhill once and still had a driver speed up to pass me. Ive never witnessed cars doing that to other drivers in cars going the speed limit. When its two lanes in the same direction its not surprising. Intersection are even worse. Especially the ones with directional lights and yield on green. Drivers probably wont yield for a bike around here it seems. Im not confident enough in my skill that i will be able to avoid a driver like that yet. I dismount from bike and cross as a pedestrian if im not feeling safe. Still i enjoy riding. I want to continue and i hope to gain better understand of trails and paths to ride those. Im even considering getting a second bike maybe electric and maybe not for trails and paths.
Ps. My bike has a cadence sensor that triggers power from pedaling. Everytine its triggered it feels like the engines causes an acceleration similar to pumping the gas pedal in a car. The sensation and the force of the power takes getting used to. I havnt rode a electric bike with a torque sensor but they are said to feel more natural and similar to riding a regular bike. I dont think throttles should be used on trails and paths except for maybe special cases of people with less physical ability requiring some kind of permit or something.
11:20 - you hit the nail in the head. I feel myself safer with cars than with e-bikers on the bike path. Whenever there's the bike path, I always choose to ride on the road alongside with cars for this very issue.
HI John, sorry to hear about the moron who pulled out in front of you and caused your accident. im an old fella who has a ebike Mountain bike, a haibike 7 .... most ebikes here in the uk and certainly on the trails are peddle assisted, meaning you have to put in the effort .... in fact many of the dedicated mountain bike trails do not allow motorised non peddle assist type bikes. I have to say with regards to Ebike peddle assist, it really is a GOD SEND and i would highly recommend an ebike to ALL .... not just old fellas like me in my 50's. Yes ive got/had health issues (heart surgery) but the colleagues i go out with are all on ebikes and we all get a work out whether we are in TOUR mode or Turbo assist. It really gets your heart pumping and being out in the countryside, in the fresh air and sunshine is wonderful ..... ebikes peddle assist are not to blame, it was the person who caused the accident and not necessarily the bike, perhaps there needs to be legislation or insurance for the non peddle assist ebikes ?
I’m a guitarist! I don’t play electrified guitars!!!! I don’t think electric guitars are good for guitar. People need to play normally, not loud and fast like the electric guitars allow people to play. When I was playing at an open mic group jam and these electric guitarists completely played over me, and that made me mad and hurt my feelings!!!! No more electric guitars and the guitar industry is to blame (see what I did there?)….its a poor artist who blames his brush…..
Thanks for the comment. I don't consider my bike riding artistic. I do blame a poor guitarist if he or she plays bad.
That’s a false equivalence. An electric guitar doesn’t enable you to do something you wouldn’t otherwise already be able to do.
Electric Guitars allows the player to do many, MANY things that are impossible on an acoustic guitar!!!
I think the logic behind this video is flawed. In addition to the obvious, demonstrated somewhat in the above comment, the perspective seems IMHO to be completely narrow and appears exclusive to an individual who, clearly, seems to have pre-established notions without thorough consideration. I won't delve into it in this limited space but, where I live in California, I mostly see middle age cargo bikes by people doing their errands or taking their kids to the park. The smaller percentage I see are of the elderly, often 70's, 80's and today a Man probably in his 90's. Additionally, consider the bicycle as a micromobility device that eventually we ALL should rely on (do you own a car?).
I am 64 and have been riding road bikes since the 1960's regularly. Back when I was young, bikes were considered "toys" and it was not uncommon for cars to purposely veer in your path to scare you or to push you into a curb or embankment. I had several run- ins with Autos back then. What has changed? Perception, awareness and acknowledgment of existence. This led to the first cycling boom of the 1970's. I still ride a road bike, a mountain bike and, as of last year, an e-bike. An e-bike does not cause me to ride my Bianchi any less but it sure keeps me away from driving my car and, by comparison, the benefits are huge!
I should add: Where I live I am much more likely to see a 20 something year old on a Electric Push Scooter than an E-Bike. Of all modes of Transportation, IMHO, Car Drivers are THE MOST irresponsible.
I'm a golfer and this reminds me of the young people who ride golf carts. They are often the people who disregard the rules and have bad etiquette. Golf carts damage the course more than walkers, especially when they disobey the rules. Like e-bikes, it's probably giving access to the lazier younger generation and the overweight and unfit which, unfortunately, is increasingly a higher percentage of the population.
We need to encourage people to get out of cars. Getting people on an ebike is a good thing as it gets them out of cars. I have been cycling on an ebike since 2005. Since then I have ridden over 100,000 kilometers and saved tens of thousands of dollars, especially since I sold my car.
Unfortunately there are many bad drivers and many bad cyclists as well out there. Please join an advocacy organization to get mandatory cycling training for all students in Alberta. I have been part of HUB Cycling in Vancouver and we are training children how to ride.
Thanks for the comment.
"They also don't encourage cycling... you know CYCLING... peddling a bike." I don't like bikes that have a throttle rather than the motor engaging when you pedal. Which brings me to pedaling, not peddling. When I owned a bike store, I certainly peddled bicycles. Now, I just pedal them. I'm also bothered because, for years, as a member of a local cycling advocacy group, we spent most of our time trying to figure out how to get more people on bikes. Better infrastructure, more education, safer streets, and on and on. Turns out that what people wanted was just to make it EASIER. Not safer, not fewer cars, not separate bike lanes but just make it take less effort. Make it so they don't have to work so hard to turn the pedals. I agree with your concerns. People with very little cycling experience riding HEAVY bikes can now easily attain speeds hitherto reserved for fit, experienced cyclists who learned how to handle bikes after many miles and years of cycling. I think a lot of these new, e-bike riders are going to learn through painful experience how hard and abrasive asphalt is and how inattentive and inconsiderate motorists can be. At 71, having started riding derailleur equipped bikes over 55 years ago and having taken many long rides and having commuted by bike for years, I am not encouraged by this trend. I agree with your view on this subject.
We just need rules on speed limiters, power limits, and trail speed limits to keep e-bikes safe on trails. For example, on a single track, you shouldn't be allowed to bring a 1000 watt e-bike, that will destroy the trail. On biking paths, your e-bike should have a speed limiters of 25 mph. On walking trails, all bikes should have to remain under 15 mph. Just add regulations and every one can have their fun and be safe.
There are laws and speed restrictions in place to regulate ebikes
So the ebike you hit was hardly even moving…..could have also happened with an acoustic bike….your point is textbook blame shifting. People said the same gloom and doom when full suspension hit the scene ‘inexperienced riders will kill themselves and others’ cuz full suspension lets them ride beyond their skills. You’re just mad you got hurt and that sucks.
John I'm seeing the same in my area of South Carolina as a runner and beginner cyclist with paved rail beds that have been converted into bike and pedestrian conveyances. The ebike rental riders are usually the most troublesome followed by younger crowd with electric Razors, unicycles, etc. I'm all for freedom of choice but there has to be some logical reasoning in mixing 35-45km generators of "fun" with weekend packed gathering of walkers/runners who too are out for fun. Personally for me, there are days I wouldn't even consider taking a pedal bike to these areas....but that's just me. Thanks for bringing attention to this and the opportunity for open honest discussion.
Thanks for the comment.
Thanks for your comment and for watching.
Right on ! I see kids on powerful e-bikes hauling ass on sidewalks, bike paths, on the road . The adds for these bikes push speed and ways to reprogram the bikes computer to get around the speed limiter. I’ve risen since age 5 and thur much of my 20’s. My friends and I loved steep hills as it provided the physical challenge we desired. Anyways I appreciate your thoughts. 👍👍👍
In my opinion I love both regular bikes, and e-bikes I road both mainly regular. I’m still very young, but ever since I messed up my 2 lower discs and having arthritis at a young age e-bike really helps me. I don’t think we should be mad but to help another.
One company in particular is Lectric ebike company that has introduced ebiking to the masses with their inexpensive products. But now they released their newest model The One with electronic shifting (No cassette gears) overpowered motor with throttle. This one scares me if used by young or careless people. All the CZcams videos show people doing wheelies and not pedaling. This model to me should be kept off rail trail type riders like me. I have nice Trek and turn assist down so have to pedal for exercise. I ring bell and say "On your left" when passing and most people smile and appreciate. I have to cross 5 intersections on my route and do wish had throttle at times to cross. As everyone knows drivers often do not give right of way to bikers. So safe travels everyone
I’m in North Carolina. Same issue here. Some riders on e-bikes are responsible. Unfortunately I find many are uninformed and have no biking experience.
Totally agree I’m no lover of this new trend. I think e-bikes do have a place particularly with older people or someone who has a condition who cannot ride a regular bike. But here in the UK they are also getting extremely popular and most are having them chipped so they literally a low powered moped. They are also much younger people who really should not really need them but they always claim they can ride further or get more laps in. It does not wash with me. I think most people are actually riding the wrong type of bike for where they are riding, essentially meaning they are over biked. I got into cycling because of its simplicity and using your own power / fitness and skill. It’s a wonderful sport and think it is currently being ruined by this new fashion trend. They are essentially motorbikes that should really need their own category of insurance and possibly even a license like you said. Because of there speed and weight they are a danger to others trail users. I also see a lot of conflicts on the trails between different riders because of e-bikes something I’ve never seen before with mountain bikers. I don’t even like the fact they are so environmentally unfriendly, the large batteries the constant recharging then you got the disposal of them at the end of their life. It’s just not what cycling is meant to be…
As a "roadie" for the past 35+ years, 100% agree with all points in this video.
The only problem I have with my Wired Freedom is the weather up here in the north east 😁
that and the fact that spare batteries from Wired cost $800 🤣
Here in the coal regions of Central PA, bike riding season ends on Dec. 31, and begins on the following Jan. 1
Totally with you.
I've been riding only ebikes since about 2004; first one was about 19mph. Currently I've got a 16mph & a 50mph; but I ride at around 10-15mph on bike paths with walkers. I feel terrible for walkers b/c that's a frightening feeling when these poops zooms by at 30mph +, esp. when people are walking with their kids. Luckily, there aren't that many ebikes around here yet.
There are many videos on YT of extremely reckless riders in States like California & NYC.. The hammer of the Law is gonna come down soon, I bet.
Perfectly fine to express your opinion on Ebikes. Every iteration of bikes have had a rant from someone like you with an opinion. Progress continues.
FWIW, I pretty much abandon riding on multi-use trails long ago. I routinely ride just below 20 MPH which is just too fast for trails. There are too many families, kids, animals, and now e-bikers on trails (and they have a right to use the trails), so I ride on the roads where I can go as fast as I want and hope the cars stay away from me.
The rails-to-trails movement was pioneered by cyclists so that they would have a place of their own to ride. How sad that cyclists are essentially pushed away from using these trails for the reason you mentioned.
I'm 70 and live in a hilly area.
Even BEFORE I got my new knee, riding the hills here on my analog bike was just too tough.
An ebike has helped me rehab my knee, restart my bike-walks with my dog (8 years and counting) and ride for fun and exercise...both with and without my wife.
When we move to AZ, we're planning on getting regular size (26" wheels) ebikes with slightly more powerful motors...because we're ready.
Ebikes are here to stay so...get used to them.
Also...as someone else accurately remarked: It's not the bikes, it's the riders and...let me tell you...there are a LOT of hot shots who want nothing but power and speed.
That is NOT the case with so many of us...especially seniors.
So...careful where you apply that broad brush. 😉
I believe I address age in my video. Congrats and enjoy your e-bikes. Be sure to watch my comment reaction video goes up at 7 am MT this morning.
To many people in the world
Agree! Inexperienced bike riders riding a 70lbs motorized bike going 20mph on a bike pathway is a disaster waiting to happen. Cycling used to be a method of excursive. It's becoming increasingly dangerous for all.
An added benefit of my renewed love for riding and owning sweet ebikes is my vehicle is parked most of the time. In the past 6 months Ive logged 5000kms on ebikes that would have been in a car otherwise.
They are life changing.
1000 percent this.
We have a trail system in FL that used to be for pedestrians and cyclists... I now stick to the roads and take my chances with vehicles..
I was getting semi-serious about bike riding after Covid. New bike prices were stellar, and I didn't like the "new" layout. I like safety brakes (a.k.a. suicide brakes), rim brakes, stem mounted shifters and a milk crate for cargo. (Yes, I'm old school) My old 12-speed didn't have enough gears. I bought a used, slightly beat up, 21-speed and rebuilt it with the customizations that I wanted. That happened about three years ago. I am VERY happy how it turned out. BTW: e-bikes are not for me. I enjoy the exercise.
I agree, here in Scotland I see these Ebikes becoming a real problem. They allow unfit people to access our remote areas, areas sensitive to human intrusion. The torque these things put into the rear wheel, is far greater than a bike, with corresponding damage to trails and paths. I object to the term Ebike, these things have a fuel source and an engine, they are motor bikes. Another issue is safety as you have direct experience, the little safe cycling infrastructure we have here, threatens to be turned into a danger zone, with idiots on sometimes unrestricted E machines traveling at reckless speeds. Its a problem.
Soo glad to see soo many people adopting assisted cycling. Great stuff.
I ride emtb on mountain trails. I'm pedaling, yes pedaling 8 hours a day. I am probably more careful and curtious than a lot of other people riding mtb. I agree with you, they piss me off, too. I spent a lot of my money on a specialized levo and a yt decoy, and I don't want to lose my rights to ride trails.
I came back to cycling in 2019, got a budget hybrid from a bike shop, and the bike shop emphasized the etiquette of cycling before leaving with the bike (ie: passing on your left, don't go more than 2 abreast, etc.). Since the pandemic started I have noticed a lot of new cyclists don't do any of that, presumably because they didn't purchase from a bike shop. I also noticed that a lot of the e-bikes you are referencing aren't sold through bike shops but rather Amazon, Walmart, etc. making me wonder if it these two issues are the same. Few people buying bikes from bike shops and being informed of the expected etiquette and more people just being ignorant. From my perspective e-bikes are wonderful and should be encouraged. A lot of people where I live don't have cars but could afford an e-bike
The increasing presence of budget e-bikes, combined with riders not wearing helmets and often lacking experience, is creating chaotic conditions. While I personally enjoy cycling on my premium mountain and electric mountain bikes, the behaviors I've observed on the roads lead me to believe that regulatory intervention might become necessary to address some of the reckless actions taking place.
One ebike rider that misbehave doesn't mean all Ebike riders are like that, most are careful, i'm careful.
Excellent video. Here in California, I run into ebikes more on the dedicated bike trails than on the roads, where sometimes it feels safer! Your moped analogy is so true. When i see an ebiker without a helmet, that's the leading indicator that i will need to be careful around them.
Thanks.
You are 100% right about Non pedal assist E bikes are a motorcycle and should be outlawed on bike paths. but I am 100% behind pedal assist E bikes. Also unfortunately it's the person on the equipment that is responsible !! Maybe they should be required to have a license to operate an electric MOTORCYCLE !!
I ride an e-bike no throttle and 2 in tires I Don’t ride 30 kph on bike trails. Maybe 18 22 kph. I have NEVER had an incident with an e-bikes BUT I regularly have incidents with non e-bikes flying past me dodging in out and around me at excessive speed with complete disregard for any one else on the trails (walkers and hikers included) no lights bells mirrors…. So yeah there is a problem !
It’s a matter of etiquette and respect. As a hiker, I’ve been nearly run over countless times by rude mountain bikers who don’t respect right of way and come crashing down the trails at ridiculous speeds. My daughter was literally ran over by an ebiker last year, and the coward didn’t even stop to see if she was OK. So when I hear bicyclists complaining about lack of etiquette, there’s a part of me that snickers a bit, yet another part that feels your frustration. That being said, banning and regulating are just going to make matters worse. Some E-bikers are a nuisance just like some bad drivers are, and just like some bikers are. Such is life. I’m sorry you were injured, and I truly sympathize. I try to live by example and hope others will follow. There’s always going to be bad apples, but that doesn’t mean a particular group is bad, just that particular person. Karma can be a powerful thing.
I understand your frustration with disrespectful MTBers, but I do not want to ban e-bikes. Thanks for your comment.
Agree 100%. Not a fan of the e-schlock. I'm a long-time cyclist and motorcyclist.
It is always cringe when people are so dead against things that they haven't tried or understand. It is one thing to have an opinion. But it is another thing to be so dogmatic and authoritative when you simply have an opinion like everyone else. Ebikes and regular bikes will both have a place in the market. Ebikes have greatly expanded the bike buying market and also have had people with health issues also be able to get on bikes when the could not previously. Many of us have both types and it has caused us be cycling much more than ever.
I don't think I am being authoritative, but I appreciate you opinion. All the best.
Great video, i think it ultimately comes down to venue. Keep motors off non motorized trails and paths.
Amen...... every e-mtb "rider" I see on local trails, seat to low, never shift, run red lights. They just pay to ride.
You know class 1 ebikes require you to pedal the thing to get it going. If it weren't for eMTB I'd still be on the couch right now.
Interesting, where do you live? All the best.
I think it’s a user problem not an ebike problem, but yes, when you have users who haven’t acquired basic fundamentals that most acquire by cycling on regular bikes and you add power and speed plus weight, it’s a recipe for disaster. I personally think that weight should be considered when determining the class of the an ebike. And the park rangers need to enforce the class rules established for trails.
I ride an acoustic bike and also an ebike. The ebike is great for longer rides, or for keeping up to a friend who was a sponsored racer. It is also great for commuting when I can't shower at my destination. Emtbs aren't very popular on the trails in my area yet, and for the most part, emtb riders who I do run into on the trails are very considerate. It is rare however that I don't run into other trail users (cyclists or runners), who are convinced that I should vanish off the trail for them to go by without being disturbed. I'm sure that some of those will be a problem if they do end up on an emtb. As far as banning ebikes, to echo other comments, anything that isn't pedal assisted should be banned from cycling paths/trails!!
There used to be a solidarity among cyclists. We were all out there testing ourselves, using our muscles alone to propel our bikes. I cannot feel that same solidarity with people on motorized vehicles, even if they have to spin their legs in circles to activate the motor.
This rant is hilarious lol. He doesn't realize that most people who ride ebikes wouldn't really want to be biking. Btw the same exact thing could of happened to on a BMX or reg mountain bike lol. Damn at the end I literally thought you were going to cry!
I'm sorry that happened to you. I would be pretty furious as well, thinking about how close you could have been to much more serious injury. Hopefully that moped user will be more cautious in the future. Sounds like they got off easier than they should have.
I don't entirely agree that e bikes themselves are the problem. I think you got closer to the root when you said "and now you've got a bunch of people who had never got on a bike before..." Taken out of the context of the rest of your point, I think it's easy to see that this could (and probably should) be viewed as a good thing. More people one bikes! However, you've effectively drawn some attention to another interpretation of that statement, where there are, in many cases, a surge of new users attempting to share infrastructure who don't really know the "rules of the road." In that case, it's not so much the e-bike that's the problem, but the social, legal, and physical infrastructure that isn't keeping up with current practicalities.
I am also a cyclist, and while I own many bikes, none of them are of the electric variety at the moment. If it's in my budget one day, I can certainly see that changing. I don't lament people who can take advantage of them from enjoying the ride responsibly, though, and especially not if those are people who would otherwise not have ridden a bike at all, whether out of "laziness" or need! I certainly agree that there should be some accountability to help mitigate the proliferation of negligent users and ensure that everyone else can be safe while sharing in the activity we all love so much.
I agree - the crux of the issue here is that people need to be aware of their surroundings and other trail/path users, and ride with courtesy and obey any speed limits and/or other limitations - just because you don't need an official licence, doesn't give you a licence to be an arse.
Sadly it appears you are unaware of the fundamental distinction between a Class-1 pedal assist bike (which is the only kind major bicycle manufacturers produce - such as the Santa Cruz Heckler you mention) and anything else with a motor attached...
A Class-1 bike is pedal ASSIST only, and has to conform to a strict set of rules regarding maximum power output (250w) and maximum assisted speed (20mph in the USA, 15.5mph in Europe), and that fundamentally you only get that E when you are actually pedalling.
Furthermore an eMTB has exactly the same gearing as a non-assisted MTB, so broadly speaking once you reach 20mph you're at about the limit of sustained pedalling anyway - and anything more than that is going to be 100% down to you (or gravity).
Yes, there are any number of other electrically powered bikes out there which don't comply with these rules - from Class 2 & 3 bikes with or without throttles and higher assistance levels, or home-brewed conversions, and Amazon 'eMotos' which people also ride on bike paths and trails (mostly illegally) - and regardless of what they are riding, unfortunately there are people out there who will ignore the rules and good manners in general… but as a content creator you owe it to your audience to educate yourself, and make the fundamental distinction.
As an e-bike "hater" from way back I remember having a disagreement with my LBS owner who had just started selling e-bikes in the early teens. Their argument was that the bikes were 250 watts maximum and that the only people buying them were people with disabilities. I said "yeah now they are, but give it a couple of years". A couple of years later the average e-bike now has 600 watts or more and even though they come out of the factory speed restricted removing that restriction is a plug and play operation. I was also basically forced to buy an e-bike if I wanted to keep riding with my buddies who all have them. Don't get me wrong, my e-bike is awesome. But there is no question that it changes the landscape significantly. A 30 mile hard ride on a standard bike becomes an easy dawdle on my e-bike. It has definitely opened the door for new people and along with that idiots to go places they really shouldn't both on the roads and paths as well as in the mountainbike parks. Beware the idiot.
Beware the idiot. Many people get the feeling I want to ban e-bikes, but that isn't the case. I'm glad you enjoy yours. Just think of the great skills you got from riding a regular bike. Something lacking in many people with wheels and a throttle. All the best.
@CyclingOnAShoestring ... to be fair I avoid group road rides like the plague these days. And especially the large paid events. Maybe I'm a slow learner but after a season of crashes a few years back caused by complete wankspanners doing idiotic stuff in the pack and being told to stop doing that by various people only for them to cause a major pile up 10 minutes later I decided that they weren't worth it. It's not just the e-bike riders ... but yeah there does seem to be a higher average there.
You are right. E bikes are motorbikes, as the old French two stroke petrol Solex was, but battery technology allows e bikes to be more practical. E bikes should be taxed, as motorbikes are, and riders should be required to have a licence. Such measures would impose order on e bike anarchy. Bicycles (human powered) are self limiting, self sufficient and liberating without the menace of a motorised human ego. I’m 80, an active, daily cyclist, but just slower.
I'm seeing more e-bike riders on sponsored rides here in the Houston area.
I've been cycling my entire life, now 61. I think e-bikes, and especially e-cargo bikes are a game changer in the transportation sector. The growth of e-bikes may encourage more biking infrastructure, a good thing. The question about e-bikes being a problem is nuanced. Here's where I've landed. THROTTLE = PROBLEM. Generally, the 130 lb woman or 160 lb man on a TERN GSD, a Surly Big Easy or a front-loading cargo bike carrying two children are not the problem. The e-bike commuters are not the problem. The elderly couple in pedal-assist 4-5 soft-pedaling down the path at 12 mph are not the problem. 95%+ of the people PEDALING their e-bikes are not the problem. The true "donkeys" passing pedestrians, cutting the apex of blind corners, and passing children at 23 mph with inches to spare are not pedaling their e-bikes. They're using the e-bike with a throttle as a low-speed motorcycle. I have a 2019 Radwagon, a 73 lb e-cargo bike with a throttle. I never use the throttle, and honestly, the average speeds on my road bike are faster than the e-cargo bike over the same loop. Why? I pedal both bikes. I personally believe the best answer is to eliminate the throttle. Electric BICYCLE means you MUST pedal, IMO. The solution is to eliminate the Class II e-bike, meaning the bike has a throttle and assists to 20 mph. The people buying e-bikes with a throttle have no desire to ride an electric assisted bicycle, meaning your legs spin.
Electric cyclists are cyclists too! Great developments in the bicycle industry! Evolve or die. Been watching these developments for over twenty years. One word, Empowerment.
I saw a 30 mile an hour guy not using pedals, on the asphalt path.
More erosion of trails. Even for strong capable riders, they now can ride the trail multiple times.
Just being so much faster uphill or on flats will raise accidents.
Someone important will get injured, and legislation will come down. E-bikers are not bicyclists, they are normal people leisure riding. I haven't seen it that bad, but I ride on off hours when people are normally working, or the dead of night. I classify them as mopeds, since they have motors and pedals.
I was stopped on a hill after some quad cramps and I was standing off to the side of the bike trail. Catching my breath I remember seeing an odd sight. It was a man in a business suit with an earphone, talking into it while riding a fat-tire e-bike downhill. Easily doing 20+mph and I could hear the tires from what seems like 200 yards/meters away. That guy was vocal, and honestly seemed distracted while riding. Stay safe out there, that crash could have been a ton worse.
Thanks for the comment. I don't mind bike paths on weekdays afternoons and overnight either, because of far fewer bikes. As for legislation, I have noticed many communities are having issues with electric vehicles (including scooters), some have banned them temporarily. I believe my city is studying it now. I recall an encounter with a number of e-bikes when I was in the mountains a few years back. I was riding a long uphill, up to 2225m above sea level. I was on a pretty steep grade grinding my way up, when 3 e-bikes passed me. They stopped at the top and I asked them how fast they were going... the guy said 32kmh. All of them less than half my age. All the best.
I agree we need good simple quality bikes. But honestly, I’m a raging retro-grouch at 52 yrs, who only rides old single speeds to rebel against industry. True bicycles are pure. I won’t ride an E-bike until my official handicapped parking sticker is issued and I’m completely broken. Complicated, overbuilt, expensive E-bikes aren’t helping anything.
A guy on a pedal bike stopped in front of me and caused a crash. Best ban pedal bikes then!
And driving an Ebike you were probably going way too fast to stop in time. Typical.
I am with you on this. In nanny state Australia the laws are there to make these bikes illegal on public roads or public parks and spaces but you know people dont care.
The ebike riders I ride with are far more polite and courteous than the road bikers. The road bikers fly by me at high speeds and 90% of the time and they do not say on your left. I am a very experienced road biker and they scare the heck out of me.
Hi. I'm an ebike rider in the UK. I'm in my 70's. It's very hilly here - I gave up cycling a fair few years ago due to the frustration of not being able to get up those hills anymore. My (pedal-assist) ebike is a revelation: I now ride regularly at the lowest assist setting I can manage. I get out of breath. My legs ache for a day or two after a ride. But I'm getting out there and staying reasonably fit. I agree that idiot ebike riders are becoming a scourge. As are idiot car drivers, and idiot motorbike riders. Ebikes here are restricted to 15.5 mph of assistance - which must be pedalled. So please don't blame ebike riders/ebikes in general. Have sensible laws and enforce them! Good channel btw 🙂
From what I see, motorized sports people are starting to complain because they need permits to ride the motorized trails and riders on e-bikes don't need a permit. States don't consider e-bikes as motorized vehicles so they don't need a permit. However, as there is more and more e-bikes being used that could change. Then the next step is everyone will need a permit.
I rode bicycles & then motorcycles when old enough. Now I ride bicycles again with a motor so what is your point? The rider was/is the problem not 🚫 a bicycle with a small electric motor. I almost got hit making a left turn when a car ran a red light & T-Boned the car in front of me.
Unfortunately, new regulations will be needed to prevent some people from creating accidents. What happened will turn some people away from cycling. Why risk your health? Analog bikes already have issues with car and truck trafic. Imagine the situation now on trails and paths.
I've been a cyclist all my life. Started with MTBs and Road bikes in the 80s.
I rode manically and religiously for decades.
I had a hip replacement 6 years ago and had lost my love for riding.
Then, I built up a sweet Kona honzo hardtail diy ebike. So awesome! I'm back in love with riding. E bikes offer all the joy, mental health and moderate cardio with none of the misery and suffering inherent with hill climbs.
Don't malign ebikes or ebike riders.
Your take reminds me of how hikers and horse people used to call the trails "our trails" when us "idiots" started riding MTBs on them back in the 80s.
I'm old too, get off your high horse.
Ebikes are an awesome thing.
Just built up an E Honzo ST, building an e Fat bike next. Riding and enjoying riding as much as I did when I got my first MTB back in the mid 80s.
I used to be a snob towards ebikes, not anymore. They rock, especially the diy versions.
My feelings are the same about yours on e-bikes. If you need an assist because of a physical disability by all means an e-bike is for you. If everything works fine why get lazy and ride these baby motorcycles? If the e-bike riders knew how to ride (announce your presence before passing for one) it might be more tolerable, but they dont. So now on a bike path you got the demon e-bike riders, joggers with buds in their ears so they cant hear you announce your presence, people with strollers walking two deep who wont move and of course dog walkers. Im with you; the streets seem much safer than a bike path. Oh yeah, cant forget about cars and delivery drivers who deliberately park in bike lanes too!
So-called "e-bikes are motorized vehicles. Manufacturers go to great lengths to make them look like bicycles. They have their place, but they aren't bicycles. My problem is the use of the motorized vehicles in timed events, such as centuries and timed gran fondos. Many of us enjoy the competition aspect of these rides, for example, placing well in our age group. We pay a fee to join these rides. However, the timed aspect of these rides is rendered meaningless when someone shows up with an "e-bike" (i.e., motorized bike). Sadly, many "e-bike" riders have no problem cheating in these timed events by using a motorized vehicle.