Diving Into Dante's Divine Comedy
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- I discuss the general symbolism of the Divine Comedy, its relation to other narratives and its important role in the re-enchanting culture today. The discussion was given to a reading group which included Franco Gallippi, an expert on Italian Culture who has taught at McMaster University.
My links: Merch: teespring.com/...
Support this channel:
thesymbolicwor...
patreon: / pageauvideos
subscribestar: www.subscribes...
paypal: www.paypal.me/J...
Clips Channel: / @jonathanpageauclips
French Channel: / jonathan pageau - fran...
Website and blog: www.thesymbolic...
facebook: / thesymbolicworld
twitter: / pageaujonathan
Bitchute: www.bitchute.c...
Dtube: steemit.com/@s...
The unofficial facebook discussion group:
/ 1989208418065298
The outro to my videos was written by Matthew Wilkinson
My website designers, Anomalist Design: www.anomalistd...
The music at the opening is Russian Eastern Overture, by Rimsky Korsakov.
Pageau talking to an Italian about Dante - what a treat.
Finished watching. Mind blowing. Content keeps getting better and better.
Franco looks and sounds like Jonathan’s Italian doppelgänger
I thought it was his brother talking at first before I saw him.
@@75patrickfoley same
I wasn't watching the video and thought that Jonathan decided to just do an Italian accent for Dante ahaha
@@oka4678 The Symbolic World, with Jonathan Pageau. Guest star Panathan Jogeau
You beat me to it!
The video output is on overdrive!
He has been cranking good ones out at a quick pace lately hasn’t he? Not complaining at all. Really liked the Sargon talk.
let'S GO!!!!
i think this video was recorded some time ago, because currently he has shorter hair :)
Thank you for all of this content lately Jonathan. I drive a box truck for work and I spend my days listening to podcasts. With it now being the Nativity season, I wanted to focus most of that attention into spiritual topics rather than politics/culture, and your frequent uploads are making that a very easy task for me to accomplish. Blessed Nativity season to you and your family. ✝️☦️✝️
"Dante and Shakespeare divide the world between them. There is no third." - T. S. Eliot
care to elaborate? in what way? tnx..
Both traditional Catholics. A fact that must have bemused and irritated him.
Come to think of it, Tolkien was maybe as revolutionary?
Might as well make it three traditional Catholics!
Fantastic, would absolutely love to see similar conversations for some of Dostoyevsky’s works
My god I can hardly keep up. So many new conversations. Brilliant.
This is awesome content ! Thanks Jonathan ! Just to add , alongside those mentioned one of Dante's main influences was also Ovid and in particular Ovid's Metamorphoses which was completed about 8 CE coinciding with his exile to the city of Tomis, now Constantza Romania ,and that's important because Tomis was at the margins of the Roman Empire, barely Hellenized , ruled by Thracians , Dacians and Getae whose religion was Zalmoxianism . I am mentioning this because Jonathan is speaking of patterns and most people are not aware of the importance of Zalmoxianism and its pattern's influence on Hellenism and most importantly ,Christianity . I won't go into details because there is so much to talk about, maybe I should make a video..lol, but I would say this. Historically speaking, Christianity needed more than just a few of its adepts at the time to rise and be such influence on the enormous Greek and Roman cultures . The two main Roman Emperors who embraced and spread Christianity within the Empire were both of Dacian And Thracian origin . One was Galerius who came from South of Danube and whose mother was of Dacian origin and the other was Constantine who came from Naissus- Dacia Mediterreanea( today Nis Serbia) and whose family was of Thracian origin.
A while back I was watching this tv show about this guy who goes around the world visiting the worst slums and ghettos. I think the show was called "The world's most dangerous cities" or something. On this particular episode he was visiting part of a slum in some Brazilian city where everyone is addicted to some powerful drug. This area had some suitable nickname that I don't remember, and the place and its inhabitants looked ruined and hopeless. The place looked like Hell on earth. The British host of the show was talking to a charity worker, maybe through an interpreter, about this place and its people, when out of the shadows of this large abandoned building filled with addicts that they were standing in front of, this young teenage boy addict came out and up to them with blinking eyes and dirty clothes, he asked them with a small voice what they were doing there and that he recognized something that they were talking about, I don't remember what. This boy looked a lot like my young nephew, and so I was moved to tears as the charity worker put his arm around the boy and explained to the host that this kid was a typical example of the plight of the people in that place. This scene in the show made me remember a part in the Divine Comedy where Dante is being shown a circle of Hell (I don't remember which one) by Virgil, when this sad and tormented figure comes up to them out of the tormented mass of people and asks Dante something. I think he said to Dante that he recognized his accent, and that it reminded him of home ( I also felt compassion for this guy). But I swear it felt like I was watching this same scene in the Divine Comedy come to life when I watched that scene in that tv show.
Pageau on the divine comedy, I’m in.
I was just wondering yesterday why he hasn’t done a video on Dante yet. Not disappointed at all.
Excellent conversation! Dante is also very interesting in his depiction of Theosis in Purgatory 9, and the final moments of the Comedy. Keep up the great work! :)
This is what I've been dreaming of! Dante getting the Pageau treatment
5:20, Ibn Arabi's anabasis is modelled after Muhammad's which is modelled after the hermetic ascent literature (like The Eighth Reveals the Ninth) and the Jewish heikhalot/merkabah mysticism
Jonathan.... YOUR VIDEOS KEEP MY PSYCHE BALANCED. Much Gratitude
57:21 this reminds me of something GK Chesterton said about how gothic architecture can be seen as a fullfilment of Christ's words "if these where silent the very stones would cry out". The stones themselves crying out to God so to speak.
Jonathan, you should check out the Ancient World Podcast. The host is an absolutely brilliant Dante expert, going into Gregory of Nyssa and Ovid now.
Impeccable timing. Dante is just what I wanted to hear about~!
I can confirm what Franco Gallippi told about how Divina Commedia is taught in italian school, I barely remember something about the canti of Paradise.
This is awesome Jonathan! Super grateful for all the work you do
“You have to express the universal in the particular. There is no other way to do it.”
I've had the book on my shelf for over a decade. I got some "new translation" I was curious about. I knew all the parts of the book from my studies and interests, but I am reinvigorated to reach for it again now. I have to say your videos resurrected something in my reading of things that my university had crippled.
Great talk - we need a followup talk specifically about Paradiso!
Yes
Thank God that the Lord has hidden his timely gifts for the world in men like Jonathan Pageau. God protect and prosper his kind.
This was very interesting and informative, I love when people are pondering over something together and the comments make the picture even richer with all other associations..... Thank you all!
as an Italian I was waiting for this, Thanks!
Dante didn't look kindly on the sin of pride. We know what he would say about a pride parade.
There’s other no sin so bad that pride can’t make it exponentially worse. Someone who is humble in their other sins (or at least neither proud or humble), is vastly closer to God than anyone who has embraced pride, for any reason.
@@eldermillennial8330 Can you elaborate why he looked so down on pride? And how it takes you farther from God?
@@ChristianHada What are your thoughts? Do you think it is better to be proud that one is a sinner, suggesting a kind of personal satisfaction or supposed justification, or somebody who feels ashamed (or, I suppose in the case of a pagan, somebody ignorant/unaware) of their sin?
Now imagine somebody who has betrayed their brother and is ashamed, even sorry for it, compared to somebody who is self-righteous in their betrayal, even to the point of spitting in the face of God. Who do you think is more likely to be redeemable? Who do you think it would take more work to redeem?
Yes he didn't look pride softly
He many times mentions how florence,rome became so pride and he is very angry about that
@@ChristianHada not sure I can elaborate but the idea of pride removing you from god would be related to how Lucifer fell from heaven for his pride in thinking that he could go against the father
I absolutely loved this video. In my favorites it goes!
YESSS IVE BEEN WAITING FOR SOME DANTE
Fantastic content. I guess I would have never found my way to Dante‘s opus without your channel. Thanks, Jonathan!
Tolkien’s ascent of mount doom is an echo of pergatorio.... the nakedness... the mill wheel around the neck.... I guess that makes Sam into Virgil. Pretty cool. Pretty sure the three beasts Dante first encounters represent the three lower seals... the panther, the beast of Bacchus, represents the lowest, sexuality. The starving wolf is the second seal, pain, the beast of the victims of the world. The lion is the third seal, the beast of tyrants, the seal of power. (Seals = chakras, except ‘chakra’ is a misnomer). These three are the modus operendi of humanity in its beast mode... not higher man. They represent survival, and as President Snow pointed out, survivalists are not lovely people... he should know.
Dr Gallippi’s contributions enrich Jonathan’s perspective. Like the way the two interact.
Loving the content lately! Please keep it coming, and please do more videos with interesting creators
I needed to hear this thank you for upload.
This topic discussed with great Franco Nembrini, that would bi mind-blowing.
Yes, Franco Nembrini’s vast understanding of the Commedia, particularity the centrality of desiderio, desire is critically important.
This was fantastic, thank you all.
Love the idea! Keep going, please!
Jonathan, have you ever seen the films of Andrei Tarkovsky or Terrence Malick? You would love the abundance of symbolism in their films
One of the best talks yet
Just started reading this with Corey Olsen's weekly class on Signum U's twitch!!
Interesting perspectives on the book. I am about to read it myself.
I am wondering how its inspiration will flow within me, of a less religious stand-point, and no abyss-laden personal events to relate to. But curious to find out.
Jonathan, if you happen to read this, could you share with us the translation you prefer/recommend?
He uses John Ciardi’s translation
Thank you God for Jonathan Pageau !!
Fantastic, thank you. Im getting a t-shirt.
Reading Dante (for 2nd time - read 40 years ago). Appreciate this video.
38:22 Essentialy, in energy healing there are different planes/bodies. The more you go up (365 spherical degrees up, like different atmospheric layers) the more its real is abstract and encompassing. It's something like the layer of matter (body, cellular, mollecular, atomic, etc) but in an other way of direction. In practice the phisical and etheric bodies respond to the linear time, the astral body to the continuous time (an emotion, which are can stay the same until it is lived). Usualy at the top of the astral layer, there is a transitionnal layer, the mental, which correspond to Rodin's thinker at the door of hell. Hell refer usualy to the Astral, and have different layer. Traditionnaly we count 7, 1 solid, 1 liquid, 1 gaz, 4 ethers,. However the more "heavier" or lower the more intense it is. For exemple pulsion may be lower than anger. The sexual region bidge the physical and the lower astral. The nervous system is intimately related to the astral body in general. The neocortex as a beginning of relation to the tird body. All that can be seen by anybody wishing to dive in without any substance. Typically we count 6 or 7 bodies. Each as its matter and realm. The higher the more abstract they are or beyond time. The way Peterson talk about archetype is quite acurate but they are mostly creating us istead of the reverse. Like there is iron in the universe and so in ourselves, so we unfold with them, them part of us. You have good insight on what they encompasses but you're nail down by the fact that you acknowledge the impact of those realm without acknowledging that those realm exists.
Amazing and Gods Bless we need to know this symbolism as people of faith. The forces for evil are revealing themselves and coming pit of the shadows.
Thank you very much for sharing ❤️
Thanks
When you talk about meaning and potential meeting in a chair through consciousness this is what in aristotelic-thomistic philosophy is called the hilemorphic theory so it would be form and matter (form being act and matter being potentiality) united through an agent cause --
Do Paradise Lost and The Tragedy of Man next!
1:07:50 if we visit only the inferno without understanding purgatory and paradise, it is not Dante’s comedy but Adam’s tragedy. Justice without mercy; awe without love; sin and death without garments of skin; 1:10:40 garments of skin without glorification/theosis.
(See also 1:17:20)
I think Freud was arguing against The Divine Comedy as the core of his life's work.
Dropping gems
a marvelous exposition of how the abiding truths of Kabbala live on in Christianity can be found in Giorgio Tarditi Spagnoli's 'Presentation of Kabbalah & Anthroposophy' youtube March 20 2020
1:14:35 this has been another episode of 🤯 with Jonathan
You should do a bideo on Kubrick's The Shining. That film is all about patterns and how they can drive you crazy
Jonathan could you please explain the orthodox stance on original sin, sin, a bit more in depth please. At the very end of this video did you say "...we are not born in sin we are born with sin", I could not make out what was said.
Does Franco also have a youtube channel?
Full Franco vid when
@Jonathan Pageau
1:28:00 Interesting that you say that ontological fallenness, alternatively viewed as ontological incompleteness, should not be included in the Christian system. Some would say that the introduction of ontological incompleteness not only into Creation but God Himself, in part through the Incarnation and Crucifixion, is one of the key points which differentiates Christianity from all other religions. This is a point Slavoj Zizek often makes, and given your (likely unintentional) alignment with some of his ontological views regarding Christianity and his conception of the working of symbols, it is interesting that you two would diverge at this point.
The point about ontological incompleteness is more elaborate than just the connection to Jesus, but I didn't want to make this comment too long. I can try to elaborate if needed.
Also, I'm not necessarily putting Zizek forward as an authority on Christianity; the central position ontological incompleteness occupies in his framework is the main reason I'm bringing him up.
@jonathon you have 144,000 subscribers!
The most important part of the phrase "Re-enchant the World" is the "Re-"
Enoch? OK? Im making it into mp3 for my tomorows workshift. Thank you. I did listened to the audiobook of the Book of Enoch a while ago and the more comentary and angles I have on it the better. Because while omited in our Bible it IS interwoven with the oldest most authentic Christian sfuff. Apostols do point to it now and then. I am very interested in your view. Thank you.
I think i was hoping for a little something different from this video. Im not familiar with the channel, so i wasnt expecting the talk of modernity (im a bit unclear about whether he buys into the idea of modernity or if he thinks its a myth), general fingerpointing at "people today" being disconnected because of their phones (have you tried being a kid in "modern" sociery? Where can you go to have fun at a third space?), and also just generally i was not expecting the inclusion of as much personal experiance with religion (though i dont necessarily think talking about personal experiences in a scholarly setting is a bad thing, just that it might need a bit more explaining).
To be fair though, I was just trying to watch this to help me with my universitys dante class, so i guess take my comments how you will. There is definitely an audiance for this stuff, and im glad they enjoy it /genuine
the most comprehensive contemporary workthrough of the Divine Comedy can be found on youtube in 34 'Inferno' chapters, and 33 each on 'Purgatory' and ' Paradiso' - by psychiatrist Mark Vernon - he has just completed the cycle of presentations ...........3 x 33 = 100!
35:00 After hearing Jonathan explain this ‘gathering’ so many times I see Christ’s gathering (through Peter (who is the rock of which the church is built)) of the fish into the net and raising it out of the water as (in the Catholic tradition) ‘Our Lady of all nations’ (who once was Mary).
The 153 fish represent the people of the (then) 153 nations of the world being caught and united into the one body of the Bride of Christ. The net representing the righteousness of God binding the identity of the one, true church which is Our Lady of nations; the mystical body of Mary after her assumption. So the fish are simultaneously saints, people who have reached perfection and therefore are of the same body submitting themselves to God. The divine marriage...
how is it possible that the Image of a fish caught in a net can be so meaningful?
This finishes a bit abruptly - is there another part?
Kea Whitmore
1 second ago
To deny the breath of GOD is to deny the gift of Life. To stay on your knees, in the face of evil, is to deny GOD's strength. To deny the freedom GOD has asked us to protect is to deny GODs freedom within us. The CHRIST died so that our freedom is protected eternally. Don't dismiss the greatest of all sacrifices in weakness. Stand for the Kingdom is within. Unite with your brothers and sisters in CHRIST. Stand for GOD! Stand for CHRIST! Stand for yourself! STAND UP!
Read Fr. Seraphim Rose - Soul after death
this pinnocho thing made me feel different and hopeful about AI and robots,in itself. Now I'm just a bit affraid what humans will teach them, hopefully some will become "good boys" lol, someon will have to take care of it, god can only encourage us.
Jonathan, what are your thoughts on on symbolism of the man-made "monoliths" that have appeared in Utah, Romania, and California?
It's some weird prank, nothing special about it, you can obviously see rivets in the obelisks.
@@Xcalibus28, yes. Hence why i said man made. I'm just asking for his interpretation of the symbolism as to why it's being done. Regardless of it's stupidity.
@@tristaingwerson6599 vice has a good article on this right now, ignore their lies about the young men involved...
Preparing us for the future, when they reveal they’ve been talking to “extra dimensional entities” this whole time. People will worship them and it will be the new religion. Watch them slowly begin to admit in this decade that there has been an otherworldly presence in our planet this whole time. Even CERN recently was saying that they were making contact with another “dimension”, even though they told us for so long that that was all just conspiracy theories. They faked these ones so that it’s something that they can shape the narrative around and have total control over it, if it was a legit ancient pre flood type of artifact it’d be harder to control the narrative around it. They want us to think that it is little green men from outer space who come in peace instead of what they really are.
This ties into the whole project bluebeam (which if you look it up, actually makes sense and they actually do have that type of technology) and faking an “alien invasion” thing. There planning on doing this, it’s even in UN agenda 2030 and great reset stuff. Serge Monast is written off as crazy, but he was right on the money, the technology is there, the desire of the masses for “aliens” is there, the fake archaeological evidence is here. They hid and obscured evidences that would reveal a more biblical worldview and instead promoted materialism, as it was necessary to create an ideological shift, but now that materialism has done its job, you’re seeing the scientific community get closer and closer to the whole alien trans dimensional thing, and are straight up faking “evidences” now, as they have done for so long. It has been a long time plan of the elite, and of the entities they listen to, and the goal is ultimately to make us willing slaves.
1:03:45 “where I don’t have to mingle with those [animalistic] people anymore”
I think you missed the part where Jesus incarnates and asks us to incarnate.
“In the world but not of the world” means we do mingle yet without sin. The taming of animals requires you don’t “eat the pods the pigs were eating” and you can’t do this if the goal of your life is to incarnate down.
If you want the word to be made flesh in your life, you have to look to Christ not pigs
Is this the old patreon video or a new one on Dante?
It has to be an old video because his talks lately he has shorter hair, not the ponytail anymore
epic
He wrote the book. A momma mia
Perfect timing!
For those of us who haven’t read it yet, any recommendations for which translation to get? I’ve been looking at the Clive James version.
I finally finished reading it this year. I read the John Ciardi translation, which did a phenomenal job keeping the rhyme scheme and still staying true to the original meaning. The footnotes were also extremely helpful, which is especially important because 13th century Italian politics is confusing without context. I don't know much about any other translations anymore as I bought it a few years ago. Don't get too caught up in the translation though. The main decision you need to make is if you want to read it as prose or poem. I thought it was a difficult read, so prose might be better for some. I thought the poem was so beautiful that sometimes I forgot to pay attention to the story being told and had to start over.
Longfellow
@@whackkerouac3062 Thanks for the reply. I was considering the Clive James version mainly because it's supposed to be rendered more poetically for native English speakers.
For the English translation most true to the Italian "spirit" of the poem and for short, brilliant commentary - Mark Musa's Penguin Version is excellent! He gives you a brief 4-5 page explanation to each canto, perfect as a first read of the Comedy.
Nice talk about things which are not Dante's Divie Comedy.
Dante had been initiated by his teacher Brunetto Latini, and he in turn had had a natural initiation, during a journey on horseback. He fell and found himself immersed in spiritual imaginations. His initiation was therefore due to his own karma. The level of initiation of Brunetto and Dante is that of the imagination, or the conscious dream, in which the feminine spirit of Nature or Urania, also called Sofia, was revealed. For Dante it takes the name of Beatrice. The Divine Comedy is in fact the story of Dante's journey into the celestial spheres during initiation, mixed with parts not the result of clairvoyant vision, such as the political controversy, .............................which was also part of a project of social reformism both of Dante and of Brunetto. Both were in fact part of the Fedeli d'Amore: some of its members, including Dante and Boccaccio, inherited the Templar mission, after the Templars were destroyed by the King of France Philip the Beautiful and Pope Clement V in 1314 - just in the same period in which Dante wrote the Comedy. It is now exactly 700 years since he wrote it; 700 years on, we are currently experiencing the 21st 'flourish of interest' in Dante's legacy, which, being in and working in the grail truth steam, rises or 'appears' to prominence in human consciousness cyclically
40:20 That's the scientist looking through his microscope right there!
The gates of hell shall not prevail against the Lord's church !
All writer's borrow from others. We all parroting other people's opinions.
Wrong! It's all about hierarchy.
You misinterpreted the LDS Church's understanding of Kolob. "Kolob" is the name given to the star closest to the throne of God in Abraham 3꞉3. It is introduced in an effort to teach Abraham that there is a hierarchy in all things. There are many stars, and one star is "closest" to God. In a similar way, there are many intelligences, or moral agents, some greater than others. The greatest of these is God.
Do you believe in coincidence?
notice how many likes
There is no free will, change my mind
You willed yourself to write your comment about there is no free will instead of keeping it to yourself, meaning you made a choice and executed will power to type it
@@Bakarost but none of that process was freely chosen. Thoughts simply arose in my mind, and desires to write this comment also simply arose. I never freely chose any of it
@@leleltea8921 you freely chose to voice your opinion on the internet. Desires arise and you decided to voice it. Meaning you made a choice, which requires free will. The fact that thoughts and desires arised within you means nothing, you acted upon those thoughts and desires and manifested it, which is will. no one is forcing you to type it, as well as no thing is forcing you to type it. Im not forcing you to continue this discussion, i chose to respond and you are doing the same. You can be in self denial about the fact that you made a decision, which in that denial frees you of responsbility of your actions. You can choose that as well. Good day
@@Bakarost the desire to choose versus not choose is not something that I freely choose. Like I said, all things in my mind, including thoughts, desires, emotions, sensations, and other experiences, are all just things that pop into my head without me asking them to. They just come and go on their own. At no point is there something that appears that can act independently of internal or external influences. It all just flows, and none of it is free.
Meditation will reveal what I mean. Try it ;)
@ethanav. You’re on a Christian channel. We meditate daily. Prayer isn’t just asking God for material things, my friend.
Pointless intellectual opinions. If l read a book today and l shared same book with my friends,you be sure we all have different interpretations of same book. Lastly to know the meaning of any book or poetry you consult the author's themselves. Common sense. So we can't impose our opinions on people who died centuries ago
Why do you talk of Dante if you’re Orthodox? Isn’t he Catholic? I am confused!
It's okay, Alexandre.
@@MarcumDavid I don’t understand. I am Catholic and I love Dante, but doesn’t he disagree with him?
Patterns are above religious opposition
@@avenger822 Ohhhhh. Ok
And I suppose most of Catholic and Orthodox theology is pretty interchangeable.