The Oldest Depiction of Jesus (It Was Made by School Bullies)
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
- The Alexamenos Graffito is the oldest known depiction of Jesus of Nazareth, and it wasn't made by people who liked him; it was made by ancient Roman bullies who were picking on a classmate. There's a ton to learn about this and a bunch of interesting implications as well.
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If you like the tone and style of this video, you might dig my daily podcast. It's called the Ten Minute Bible Hour, and it's fast, fun, free, daily deep-dive Bible where we pick a book of the Bible and go through the whole thing one little bit at a time each day. I hope you'll check it out and I hope you like it. Here's a link: www.thetmbh.com/tmbh
Already a listener. Went through the whole thing,and caught up right at the end of Matthew.
Can confirm that it is awesome, join us! ❤
If you curious about this subject you should check Lady Babylon
Može i woke on botingbonrle side
Msnnunbleveble nowveokeni liste this reader Holly Spirit precision ,I hoppe this mannhave protectio
Now I’m really looking forward to meeting Alexamenos in eternity.
Same. Alexamenos got the last laugh and he seems like he'd be an interesting person to hang out with heaven.
Real. I would LOVE meeting the Saints in Heaven. And ultimately seeing the Lord face to face and worshipping in His presence
Same here. I want to meet the boy who stood strong in his faith despite cruelty from his peers and the world around him.
thatll be fire
We do not deserve to be in the presence of alexamenos non the less Christ himself. We can only pray he has Truly forgiven our sins and we can all live in paradise as Christians.
So campus students have been mocking Christianity since Roman times? That's crazy.
Crazy they never change
its almost like smart people realize he’s a quack
@@texanarchy666 No smart person thinks hes a quack lol
@@johndoesstuff352 so Einstein wasn’t smart because he believed in a different God and thought yours wasn’t possible? how arrogant
@@texanarchy666Campus students are smart?
the funny thing when someone makes fun of you is that they are in fact giving validation and truth to “remember, before the world hated you, it hated Me first”
religions tend to arm themselves with "magical" self justification. I mean everyone's free to believe what they wish. But yeah, no Christian in the west, at least, is persecuted today.
@@michaelfisher7170 yeah maybe in the west. But to the rest of the world, especially in the middle east? Definitely yes.
@@saywhatnow2173 Yep, the most persecuted religion in the world
The same way you mock the lgbtq and Sleepy Joe and friends??? 😂😂
@@hermitcard4494 lol you dont know what i do 😂😂
Alexamenos definitely got the last laugh. The only things we know about Alexamenos are that he was clearly open and serious about his faith in a time before it was legal to be(c. 200 AD is what people say for dating and Septimius Severus, emperor then, employed Christians in his inner circle and protected Christians from the mob but Christianity wouldn't be officially legal in Rome until the Edict of Milan in 313), that people mocked him for it and that he was a very faithful person. Seems like he'd be a good guy to know.
Definitely
To first of all be a slave torn away from your family and then land in a place where you're mocked by other slaves, that is a real rough start to life. Hard to imagine the prayers of that poor kid. What a thing for him to be remembered by name as one bullied along side the earliest depiction of Jesus, and to have a second record of him recounting his faith? That's unreal.
As always you have a great way of putting things in perspective. I was laughing hard at 19:12. Great stuff. Glad to know you've got the podcast on youtube! It'll be easier for me to remember to keep up to date that way
edit: Just checked out the podcast channel. One thing to note is that your playlists or at least the Matthew one is in reverse order. From the listener side it starts at the last video and plays backwards to the first, and I don't think there's a way to set the play order to go from the bottom up. Sorry that's kind of a huge pain to fix to reorder 800 videos
Wow! I'm a big fan of your projects!
I find it fascinating that the ones people admire can share small things that ground perceptions.
If you don't know, Eusebius writes that the woman with the issue of blood that Jesus had healed made a statue of Jesus to honor Him. It remained intact in Eusebius' day, as he said they had all seen it some 300 years later. We only have descriptions of it by Eusebius and a few later writers, but it would be the oldest and earliest image of Jesus and was actually made in Jesus' lifetime. Some debate exists that maybe it represented something or someone else, but it's interesting.
That's incredibly cool. Also, another point to maybe use in apologetic debates in the future. People don't spend the time and energy honoring an event or person that is just made up. Wish we still had it.
If true, she must have been one of the people who made statues for a living. It was a real industry back then. Any idea what happened to the real statue?
@@Procopius464 It was reported by Sozomen and Philostorgius to have been destroyed sometime later by Emperor Julian. It was a bronze statue on an elevated stone by the gates of her house that depicted a woman kneeling and reaching upward to a man, supposedly Jesus, in a double cloak and extending a hand down toward her.
It’s interesting Eusebius mentions it as a rare and unusual thing for people to make images of such saviors.
What was Eusebius’ description of the statue?
Well, another interesting thing about this "art" is that some academics have used it as evidence to prove that the early Christians believed that Jesus is God. Because of the association between a donkey and Yahweh, the whole point is that the bullies are making fun of him for believing that the guy on the cross is Yahweh, the jewish God. What is more, this is from an relatively early source clearly hostile to Christianity, which is a nice thing to have as an academic.
No. Christains excepted Jesus as the sacrificial deathe of Jehovahs son in exchange for Satan/ Adamic sin !
@@randallwittman2720 Well, we have 2000 years that says otherwise, so ... go peddle nonsense elsewhere.
The burial of a donkey means to a culture you haven’t arrived. Which could reverse the meaning you have arrived
@@randallwittman2720get outta here with your cult. The triune God is the true one, peddle your neo-arian heretical nonsense somewhere else.
@@randallwittman2720 The overwhelming majority disagrees friend, all our study of the Bible led us to the conclusion that Jesus is God, there is not much mystery here.
Alexamenos is faithful
Alexamenos is faithful.
Alexamenos is faithful.
Alexamenos is faithful
Alexamenos is faithful.
Alexamenos is faithful.
Ah, ancient memes, humanity will forever be the same
Ecclesiastes really got it right; nothing is new.
A lot of people have pointed out how in its earliest days Christianity was the religion of the lowly and the downtrodden. Alexamenos seems to have been another example of this.
It still is
@@sarahs8371found the pagan.
@@TheDragonSeer I'm Christian, what a unprofitable assumption. "Which of the two did the will of his father?” They said, “The first.” Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes go into the kingdom of God before you." Speaking of the self righteous.
@@TheDragonSeer How is that pagan? Also, the Bible teaches a radical equality. While there are differences in things like gender roles in the Church and the like, the only differences are between those who are with Christ and those who are not. Read Galations, if you think what she said is unbiblical.
@@TheDragonSeerI am lonely and downtrodden, because I have sinned. Christ died for me that I might be raised up in eternal life.
Jesus removes a lot of abstraction and excuses for personal shortcomings.
Some ppl really don’t like that
Now this is the 10 Minute Bible Hour l remember!
So much more like this to come.
Thank you! I didn't know you had apodcast until you mentioned it. Found it and have added it to my list. Thanks again Matt!
Was literally just thinking the same thing
@@MattWhitmanTMBH Can’t wait! I enjoy your other videos as well, but I’m a history nerd, definitely when it comes to the Bible. I remember when you used to make a lot of videos with this format when I first found your channel I binged watched for a long time 😂 ”How we know Jesus and the Early church existed” is still one of my favorite videos
@@MattWhitmanTMBH Bro, go over the manuscripts!!!!!
This is also good evidence against the Jehovah’s Witness argument that Jesus was not crucified on a cross but a stake.
Elvis don't you think that is a bad argument to begin with say He was Crucified on a cross or a stake is pretty much the same thing. It's not a subject to argue over. Just my opinion, just want your honest opinion?
@@melvincarter9640 the JW use it as a gateway argument to make Christians doubt everything by challenging something so familiar which can make them feel that they maybe assuming a lot more than they think they are.
Looks like the depiction mocking Alexemenos is proving that venerating a crucifix or icon in the early church was common practice
Sure.. cause they are all over the place aren’t they?
Good news. Actually the oldest image of Jesus is dated 150 AD. Half a century earlier than the Alexemenos. Jesus is painted with His mother Mary. The title of the fresco is “Virgin Mary independent of the Magi episode.” This is found in the catacomb of Priscilla in Rome.
Link?
Thank you for sharing this. It also confirms for those who don't believe Jesus died on a cross. Jesus is everything to me.
@@TheBontherapy I don't see how people think that he didn't. Even for those who don't trust the Bible, historians around the time of Christ from Josephus to Tacitus to the satirist, Lucian, none of whom liked Jesus(Lucian for instance called him a "crucified sophist") recognize that He was real and was crucified under Pilate in the reign of Tiberius.
If the first depiction of Robin hood had a bow that doesn’t prove that he existed and was an archer
@@vladthecon Are there writings from prominant historians during the time Robin Hood is said to have lived that confirms that he was indeed a real person, like there is for Jesus?
@@SanctusPaulus1962 given the quality of journalism today if I was only given cnn reports of donald trump I would think of him as a myth as imaginary the tooth fairy
@@vladthecon Ok... so are you going to answer my question or not?
It looks like something Napoleon Dynamite would draw 😆
It does! And that squares with what I'm arguing in the video :)
@@MattWhitmanTMBH it sure does! All jokes aside, this was super interesting. I just shared the link with my 18 year old son who is into history. Thanks too for all your work on TMBH. I came across it last November and am currently at MATT689. I'm excited to eventually catch up but will also be sad to only have one episode a day. Keep up the great (and important) work!
This is a fascinating topic. I recently saw an Esoterica Channel video on the The Origin of the Malevolent Demiurge that, as part of the topic, discussed the Egypt -> Set -> Donkey Head -> God of the Jews -> the Jewish people -> Christians -> Jesus pipeline. Even mentioned there was a production of "Exagoge" (a play based on Exodus) staged in Alexandria, Egypt that probably didn't go down so well with the locals.
People never change, do they?
Thanks for this lesson.
I'm still making my way through Matthew (Episode 383) and I catch up with you and Destin on NDQ but I don't hit your CZcams channel enough at all. This video you posted today is a nice reminder that you're still making scores of great content and that I'll always have lots of reliable stuff to listen to from someone I've kinda come to trust in that weird parasocial internet way. God bless you sir and thanks for pursuing obedience.
PS Writing this makes me realize how overdue I am with supporting one of your projects on Patreon. 😂😇
Thanks for saying all that. It makes me happy to hear you get benefit from stuff I do on the Internet. Thanks for listening to the podcast too!
One reason Christians don’t get too upset about people, making fun of God the Father or Jesus is that we know God is powerful and can defend himself. We also know, that God humbled himself and endured criticism, and humiliation to save us, and save the ones who were ridiculing andhumiliating him. We remember the Psalm “against you only have I sinned.” It is not our place to be angry on God’s behalf.
Hello, I do have a question to your comment. Am I to stand idling around while they make fun of God? Of course I won’t physically harm them or anyone, as we are not commanded to. However, should I not at least be offended whenever nonbelievers blaspheme by taking His name as a curse word? Or whenever they make a mockery of Him in film where they ridicule His sacrifice?
Imagine the thing you wrote to mock someone while you were a school boy manages to be studied 2000 years later. That must be embarrassing.
Alexemenos the faithful, Alexemenos my brother!
***
For the son of man came not to strike dead the scoffers, because they are dead already.
He came to be mocked by them, and to suffer in their hands, till they see the futility of it and repent. Then he receives them with love and forgets the offenses. The end.
Beautiful
Vinny your comment made me cry 🙏
Thanks Ashly, thanks Dormy
Alexamenos was BASED!
funny how cs lewis depicted the false savior as a donkey in The Last Battle
Perhaps they depicted Jesus as such according to him entering Jerusalem on a donkey?
I think there's a possible connection there. I nod to that idea briefly in the video.
Thier are a couple of ancient gods with donkey heads, Most considered evil . maybe it was drawn for what he was accused of according to dr. Ammon an ancient greek historian .
The google earth view when describing the geography was so helpful!
God bless you Alexamenos, I'll see you soon brother.❤✝️
Josephus went savage on the Egyptians.
He goes savage on a lot of people. He's a fun read.
Great video Matt!
I appreciate the positivity!
Hello good to see you again TMBH sign!
Loved this - truly fascinating and indeed inspiring.
Alexanenos pray for us.
Alexamenos is faithful.
1:00 weirdly enough Violent J said this when asked if he was insulted that SNL mocked the Gathering of The Juggalos.
WHOOP WHOOP 👌 I love finding Juggalos in unexpected places 😂
@@MitchellMeyer702 MCL
Thank you for the video Matt, I appreciate all the work you did in the research of this topic. Once we get to Heaven we can ask Alexamenos his version of the story.
When I seriously changed my life for Christ. I wanted to change my name to Alexamenos. I can be who I am for Christ, but I cannot wait to meet Alexamenos one day. One of the faithful. 🙏🏽
The people there, around the time of the sketch, be like: 'We really need to get that wall fixed, maybe add some plaster or paint. But I can't be bothered now, and I'll surely get some time tomorrow, or the day after'
Had heard of the graffito, but none of the background. Excellent, thanks!
Really interesting! I've read about the graffito a long time ago, but I didn't knew a these details. Thanks!
These people just proved the shape of the cross was historically accurate and not like sole secrets claim to be one single plank. Jesus wins this one.
Absolutely fantastic video!
One thing I noticed is that the dark markings seem to correspond to Christ’s wounds from the Crucifixion; the mark on the figure’s right shoulder from carrying the cross, the nails on each wrist, and the spear piercing his body.
Alexemenos probably described the crucifixion details while trying to evangelize the other boys. He probably heard them from scripture readings at his church. And yes, we had churches long before we had buildings to put them in.
@@donaldreynolds6857 It's unlikely that anyone but a very select few would've had access to the gospels or Paul's letters at this time. Most evangelisation during the early days of Christianity was done by word of mouth, rather than reading from scripture.
@@SanctusPaulus1962 In "The First Apology Of Justin Martyr" Chapter 67 "The Weekly Worship Of The Christians" he writes, "And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together in one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things."
The Apology was written circa 155-157 AD and is the oldest known description of a Christian Church service. At the time there was no Bible As we know it today, but there were hand written copies of different books of the Bible circulated among the Christian community.
I find the Set connection interesting. As Set was often considered on "evil" god, for his constant infighting with the other Kemetic gods. And was also a god of foreigners.
I wonder if a donkey was a local sort of stand in for a slave. At least, that would be my guess with the mentioning of the graffito of the slave comparing his plight to that of a donkey.
Nah, its more that there's an extremely zoologically appropriate reason why we say a loud, aggressive, uncooperative stuborn idiot a "jackass"
More likely a mockery of arriving in Jerusalem on a donkey.
Love this video. I will surly tell people about this. Great job Matt
You could interpret the donkey drawing as a jab at Jesus’ teachings. “Why would I follow Him, look what He got for all the good that He did.”
Another certified hood classic. Well done.
This was great!
so middle school has always sucked? good to know it wasnt just us
This was seriously fascinating. Thanks so much for sharing with us. Also, you said "ass." Like, a lot. 🤣 Thanks, Matt, for all you do! You rock!
It is wild to realize that the insult of calling someone an ass has its roots in Egyptians accusing people of worshiping Seth.
My brother in Christ, I love you, I appreciate you, I'm thankful for you and the work you put into bringing awesome videos for us to enjoy. Bro, you said 'ass' way too many times. 😅
SOOO fascinating!
The sweatband on the mic arm is a nice touch.
Thanks amigo. It's functional because it keeps the chrome glare down, but it also makes the mic arm look like it's ready to get into a fist fight.
@@MattWhitmanTMBH Mic arms in a fist fight…
Alexamonos, Saint of Meme's Target
Alexamenos sounds like he was a martyr. He was faithful in Rome and probably those same bullies got him I pray his soul made it to heaven
I remember seeing that in Nijay Gupta's book as well.
The donkey symbolizes humility, opposite of pride. It's like a guy driving a Saleen who is almost broke becauae of it v.s. a guy driving an old pickup truck but he's very wealthy. The donkey Jesus rode on into Yerushalayim is the symbol of Him humbling Himself to be the Servant of all.
The ass, a star so named, is in Cancer, where the summer solstice occurs. This ass, of course, the Sun always, as he passes Cancer, leaves behind. Our Savior (the Sun) rode into Jerusalem (summer solstice) on this very ass, and one other in the same constellation, called by the sacred writer "the foal of an ass." Balaam failed to get his ass beyond, and brought an everlasting stigma on his name because of his brutal treatment of his ass - "the ass rebuked him" (Num. 23.28).
I think they were making fun of Alexamenos’s faith in the second piece of graffiti. They probably tried to get him to do something like deny Christ and he refused. He could have even been martyred, who knows.
One has to wonder of the elephant headed god in Hinduism as well as the many animal heads in Egyptology.
Hey! Could you visit a Benedictine Monastery? I feel like it would be very interesting video to witness the life of monasticism, especially given that many people look at the Catholic faith as crazy yet other people have jumped into so deeply with so much love. (There's one in Cullman Alabama, St Bernard Abbey)
Pedagogium is related to “ pedagogy” = instruction, education. So it was school.
The talking donkey with Baa'laam is worth mentioning. The Creation Speaks! Tov!!!!
Where did the Seth as a donkey thing come from? I thought he was a jackal
I wondered that as well.
From Encyclopedia Britannica:
"Seth was represented as a composite figure, with a canine body, slanting eyes, square-tipped ears, tufted (in later representations, forked) tail, and a long, curved, pointed snout; various animals (including aardvark, antelope, ass, camel, fennec, greyhound, jackal, jerboa, long-snouted mouse, okapi, oryx, and pig) have been suggested as the basis for his form. Because even the ancient Egyptians rendered his figure inconsistently, it is probably a mythical composite."
@@MattWhitmanTMBH Woah that's really intriguing. Thank you for the reply Matt. I love your videos and look forward to your next Church Unity Project video. If you ever find yourself in Oregon, Ekklesia Eugene would be a cool church to check out ;)
Anubis was the god depicted with a jackal head.
If one knows what is said to have been kept within the Holy of Holies, it actually changes the perception of this remarkably.
The despiction of Jesus stacked with feet side by side instead of Jesus feet on top of the other is more accurate according to new foundings of crucified ankes found in England.
The thing is despite that most art despiction of Jesus financed by the Catholic Church are with 1 feet on top of the other, the official historical position of the church is that Jesus was nailed with 4 nails instead of 3, (2 on each ankel and 2 on each hand palm) which seems more accurate with the new archeological foundings. The church even entered in an argument with some priests who defended the 3 nails theory claiming that 3 nails were a symbol for the Trinity.
While I've seen this image before, I've only now noticed the black blotches on Jesus's side and shoulder. The latter, in particular, is noteworthy because Catholic tradition holds that Jesus suffered a grievous wound on his shoulder while carrying the cross, one that went unreported in the gospels. According to this tradition, which is based on the vision Saint Bernard of Clairvaux had approx. 1000 years ago, Jesus said that anyone who prays for his wounded shoulder -- which caused him more pain than the scourging, crown of thorns, beatings, etc. -- would have their sins forgiven. Can only imagine how deeply the cross -- roughly hewn, probably full of splinters -- must have dug into that pulverized flesh. Anyway, good video!
Alexamenos fidelis. ❤✝️🙏
They wrapped him in sack cloth I believe it says and the Roman officers devided his clothes amongst themselves
Donkeys are some of the noblest of animals. Both intelligent and strong and my favorite fact about donkeys is that a mother donkey will never reject one of her babies after giving birth. Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey to fulfill OT prophecy.
Alexamenos, my brother. The spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.
"That's a clever bit of Fallacy Sorcery!", declared Owl.
Pooh was less amused.
At least they hadn't given it a sausage head, thought Piglet.
"Poor Eeyore must be in Heaven with the stars now", whimpered Tigger, "if only me and my stripes could jump high enough to meet him."
I think those kids would be stoked that they’re famous.
the oldest depiction, the truest depiction, love this one.
Jesus in a toga made me imagine him as a frat boy and it made me chuckle way too much
I just watched your older Darius the Mede video and I was wondering if u could reply back with the Persian kings in order with what the Bible has. Im so confused with anything after King Nebby of Babylon.
Please make more videos
In Marina Warner’s ‘from the beast to the blonde’ - which is a look at the symbolism in fairy tales - she tells us that donkeys, more than any other animal symbolize beastliness - they are covered in thick fur, they have big heads and colossal ears, an incredible bellow, quite unlike any noise their elegant relative the horse makes - and they are destined, sadly, to a life of very hard work, with little respite. Personally, I love donkeys! (I don’t worship them, though!) I think the honour God gave them by giving one a human voice, with which to speak wisdom, and painting a cross on their backs, to commemorate their carrying Mary and her Son … well that shows that God loves the humble!
Be like Alexamenos
So where's the merch depicting the graffiti?
First saw this in Flusser's book on Jesus.
How ironic that such an act of bullying remained preserved right alongside this statement of faith!
Alone, it's a meaningless remnant of ill intent from an unknown artist. Without it, the statement of Alexamenos's faith would be so vague as to be interpreted any which way, possibly to any Roman god. But thanks be to the Lord that we have both so that we can know that Alexamenos was persecuted because of his faith in Christ.
The testimony of _two witnesses_ were carved in stone and preserved through the ages by the hand of God so that we might see it this day and know its significance. One of these men remains unknown, the other, Alexamenos, has had his name preserved. Such is the glory of Christ Jesus, in whom eternal life is granted to those who believe.
It's always great to have another little historical reminder that Jesus followers have been mocked from the beginning
well you can also look to the book of acts 11.26 where they were called christians as a nick name which they wore as or like a badge of honor
Some information -
The Alexamenos Graffito's tagger shows knowledge of 4 accusations in Minucius Felix's Octavian. Three you mentioned but the fourth is that Christians worshipped the virilia of their priest. Hence, Alexamenos is depicted with an open hand with spread fingers and with his lips slightly parted. As if he is about to...
The Pozzuoli Graffito to some scholars and to me depicts the crucificion of a male. If you examine it closely the man is "riding" (cough) a _cornu,_ a.k.a. _acuta crux._ Hence the feminine name Alkimilia.
Periere Gem looks to me to be depicting Jesus as not just crucified but also impaled with his legs splayed and hanging.
Finally there's the Vivat Crux a.k.a. Vivit Cross which shows an empty cross with an _acuta crux / cornu._ It's either a Christian reference to Jesus "He lives" or a rebus to the reader "May you live a long time on the cross."
So this is an interesting take on this image from a believing Christian perspective. I've seen the Yahweh is Set argument on Mythvision and other athiest youtubers.
He has the chad pose
Where did you photo shop this at?
I usually do my photoshopping in Photoshop.
The earliest carvings of Jesus depicted him as a boy with a magic wand.
*a young man (which he was)
And
*a doctor's stick which was commonly used by healers at the time
Dr Robin Jenson interprets that as a staff of power (related to Moses’ staff) and not a holdover from pagan portrayals of magicians.
@@MichaelGarten It's possible, but I'm not sure I believe it.
Usually, the simplest explanation is the most accurate.
I don't think these early artists were doing a lot of deep thinking-- drawing parallels between Jesus and Old Testament prophets.
I think they were just trying to depict someone who was never depicted before.
How do you illustrate a loving kind soul with the ability to heal the sick?"
You draw a happy boy with a magic wand.
@@nathanporter3569 Yup. You got it. How do you illustrate a kind soul who can heal the sick? Draw a happy kid with a magic wand.
I thought that the actual crosses were T shaped?
It’s a ‘T’ shape cross because Romans crucified on T I & X shape. The lower case ‘t’ wasn’t part of Christianity until the 5th or 6th century.
You are dead wrong.
The Romans nailed a board right on top of Christ's body mentioning his name in three different languages.
You cannot do that on a T shaped cross.
Anatomically, nails through the palm is impossible? The tissues of the palm would not support the wt of the body! Hebrew word for hand extends up the forearm, nails went through between the ulna and radius with arms over head.
Btw. The greek word for nail/nails , spike, peg.. the word helios. Can be single or pleural!!
Word squares are a documented meme from Ancient Rome. In Pompeii we see a famous one (rendered below). It seems to come from a very old Latin dialect and almost certainly was carved by someone only just literate enough to understand it:
S A T O R
A R E P O
T E N E T
O P E R A
R O T A S
It reads "Farmer Arepo uses his wheelbarrow" in every direction.
An ancient meme
Well….if you really think about it…Jesus rode a donkey to his death marry and Joseph rode a donkey to escape…so many different ways to think about this
The first redditor
The Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit speak to each other and about each other like they are seperate people.
There are passages where God speaks in the first person in the Old Testament, and Jesus will quote these in the first person about himself. He will claim things that are titles of God alone about himself and tells us he can not only hear our prayers but has the ability to answer them too.
Psalm 95:7 - for he is our God
and we are the people of his pasture,
the flock under his care.
Today, if only you would hear his voice,
Isaiah 43:13 - Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
No one can deliver out of my hand.
When I act, who can reverse it?”
Deuteronomy 32:29 - “See now that I myself am he!
There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life,
I have wounded and I will heal,
and no one can deliver out of my hand.
Two of these are God speaking in the first person, one about God.
John 10:27-30 Jesus speaking, - 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
It continues to 33 with the Jewish audience picking up stones to kill Jesus, he asks for what good works do you stone me, and they say not for good works, but you being a man make yourself out to be God.
John 14:13-14
And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.
John 5:19-23 Jesus said that he does everything exactly as he see the Father does and does everything the Father does and that Jesus will be judge and the Father will judge no one.
John 8, Jesus says that he saw Abraham and Abraham didn't try to kill him like the Jews were and Abraham was glad to see him. John 8:58, Jesus said that before Abraham was, I AM, which is what God told Moses his name was.
John 1:1,14 Jesus is the Word who was there in the beginning with God, and who was God, who took on flesh and dwelt among us.
A human being is what I am. trenititybrehm is who I am.
God is what the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit are. One God, who is three people.
The only reason the Trinity exists is because scripture teaches that the Father is God, Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God.
Jesus said, "Destroy this temple (meaning his body) and in three days, I will raise it up!" He did not say his Father would raise him, although the Father and the Holy Spirit are each explicitly given credit for raising Jesus.
Isaiah 43:11, God said there is no savior besides him. Titus 3:6 Jesus is called our Saviour.
John 6:46, Jesus says no one has seen the Father, yet Abraham spoke face to face with God in Genesis 18:19, Moses spoke face to face with God in Exodus 33:11 and Moses and the elders of Israel went up Mount Sinai and saw the God of Israel seated on a throne and ate with him. Jacob wrestled with God in Genesis 32:22-32.
Jesus is the one who ascends and descends out of heaven and the appearances of God throughout the Old Testament is Jesus. This is why he said before Abraham was, I am in John 8:58
Gensis 19:24 "Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah-from the LORD out of the heavens." When LORD is all caps it's using God's holy name in Hebrew, and Abraham was just pleading face to face with God to not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Gen 19:24 says Yahweh rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah from Yahweh out of heaven.
Jesus is the Yahweh who spoke to Abraham face to face and called sulfur and brimstone out of heaven from Yahweh the Father.
Jesus is God with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Jesus IS the Messiah, friend. The Trinity is what scripture taught from the beginning because it is from the scripture that the idea of the tri-unity between the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit as being God teaches. Not something come up with later.
Mark 1:1-4, the very first verses of the very first chapter of what is cited as the very first Gospel calls Jesus God. It refrences Isaiah 40:3 and Malachi 3:1 where Yahweh says he will send his messanger who will be like a voice in the wilderness to make the way before he himself comes to his temple. Mark says John is that voice in the wilderness, making the way for Jesus. John 1:23 , Matthew 3:3, and Luke 3:4 also say the exact same things. So all four Gospels call Jesus Yahweh in the first few chapters in the exact same way quoting the exact same Old Testamentt scriptures to do so.
In Mark 10:18, Jesus said,"Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God." Meaning: "You call me good when only God is good, do you understand what you are calling me?" To further the point, Christ then lists the 6 commandments that relate to how people deal with each other and asks the man if he's followed those. The man says yes. Then, instead of listing the 4 commandments on how to relate to God and asking if he's followed those, Jesus tells the man, "Follow me," because following and worshiping Christ is following and worshiping God.
In Mark Jesus heals the paralytic man, but first, he tells him your sins are forgiven. The Pharisees around thought in their hearts this was blasphemy, because only God can forgive sins. Jesus instantly know what they were thinking and called them out on it, and said to prove to you I can forgive sins, get up and walk and the paralytic could walk. Jesus proved he is God for only God can forgive sins, only God knows the hearts of men (Jerimiah 11:20 and 17:10), and only God can heal people. Jesus did all three in Mark's Gospel, which is often considered the oldest of the four.
Read Hebrews 1:8-12. Old Testament scriptures are quoted that are talking about God creating the universe, and Hebrews 1:8-12 quotes them and attributes the Father calling Jesus God, the Lord who created the everything, who is eternal.
Hebrews 1:10-12 Is directly quoting Psalm 102:25-27, where the Psalm is talkling about Yahweh (God) and Hebrews is talking about Jesus, the Son.
Philippians 2:5-7
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
Revelation 1:17-18
And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. 18 I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
Isaiah 48:16
“Come near to Me, hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord God and His Spirit
Have sent Me.”
(God is speaking, saying he was there from the beginning, and that the Lord God and His Spirit sent him. The Trinity in the Old Testament.)
Zechariah 12:10
"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
These next passages are about the Holy Spirit being a seperate person from the Father and the Son, and also being God.
Matthew 3:16-17
When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
John 15:26-27
But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me. 27 And you also will bear witness, because you have been with Me from the beginning.
John 16:13-15
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.
2 Samuel 23:2-3 (David calling the Spirit God)
“The Spirit of the Lord spoke by me,
And His word was on my tongue.
3 The God of Israel said,
The Rock of Israel spoke to me:
‘He who rules over men must be just,
Ruling in the fear of God.
Acts 5:3-4 (Peter calling the Spirit God)
But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? 4 While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”
We have the writing of the disciples of the Apostles and the disciples of those disciples, and they not only quote much of the New Testament, but all the core idea of Christianty are present. Jesus being God, the Son of God, dying for sins, burial, resurrection, ascension to heaven.
We also have writing of Jewish and Pagan contemporary historians who were hostile towards Jesus, who say the same things : Jesus being worshipped as God, the Son of God, dying for on the cross, burial, resurrection.
The archeology matches the Bible perfectly all the way from Genesis through the New Testament.
It's mainly because of the archeology, "friendly" writers, and "hostile" writers mentioned above that the Jesus Seminar, who are PhD level ashiest/agnostics who study Christ and the Bible, concluded that Jesus really lived in Judea 2,000 years ago, was known as a miracle workers, died on the cross under Pilate, and that his disciples really believed they had seen him risen from the dead.
The fact that there are contradictions between manuscripts is often sited as proof against trusting scripture, when it actually does the opposite. The fact that there are so many manuscripts makes it easy to tell when someone changed one, and modern Bibles are transparent about any differences in the footnotes. Over 5,000 manuscripts in the original Greek and 20,000 in other lanuages. None of those differences found between manuscripts change anything about any core doctrines of Christianity, they are mainly a handwriting error on a letter or a different way to word something that means the same thing. There is 99.5% accuracy between the manuscripts according to scholars.
There is also all the undisigned coincidence between not only the four Gospels, but the rest of the New and Old Testaments too.
Matthew 2:22 talks about Joseph not wanting to return to Judea after fleeing to Egypt because Archelaus was ruling. That's all the info on that the Bible gives. Josephus, the Jewish historian, tells us about the things Archelaus did and how evil he was. Put these two peices of evidence together, we get the full picture.
This sort of thing happens through the text with the seemingly useless details matching up perfectly with extra Biblical sources, lending to the credibility of the text.
The Apostles willingness to be killed not for saying they believed Jesus had risen, but they knew he had risen, because they saw him.
If the tomb wasn't empty, they would've paraded the body around to stomp out any idea of Jesus being ressurrected, but Christianty spread because there was no body in the tomb.
If someone stole the body, why were nearly all the Apostles willing to be killed for saying they'd seen Jesus risen? They were thousands of miles away from one another before phones and the internet and were being threaten, tortured, and murdered for their claim. Not one "broke" and said it was a lie to save themselves.
It's because of the evidence that I believe in Jesus.