How to Analyze Stories: Understanding Setting and World Building with A.P. Canavan
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- čas přidán 5. 09. 2024
- Of use to readers, reviewers, and authors, this video (part five of a series) focuses on setting and world building as crucial aspects of storytelling. In this series, A.P. Canavan (@ACriticalDragon) and I share what we’ve learned about analyzing stories over the years. During the series, we will cover various topics, including story versus plot, narrative perspective, characters, setting and world building, symbols, tone and style, and themes. It is our hope that the tools and techniques we discuss will add enjoyment to people’s storytelling journeys.
I am collecting all the videos in the "How to Analyze Stories" playlist on my channel.
I love that you took the time to teach him how to spell the word locale. This too proves how caring you are.
Even a Nemesis deserves empathy . . . sometimes. 😁
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy How can he not see it. 🤣
Thank you Mr Chase and Mr Canavan. It was a very entertaining and enlightening video! Don't let up with this collection of videos!
@@Gascon12 I’m glad you enjoyed it, Diego! There’s a total of nine videos in this series, which has a playlist on my channel.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy And I have been watching them all! thank you!
Thank you for putting up with the puns. It is always fun to chat about these topics with you, even if you are a diabolical nemesis.
Wait . . . Do I have a choice about putting up with the puns? Is there a no-pun option? Something I can program in the settings? 😁
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy I was being polite... as they say in Highlander, "There can be only pun."
@@ACriticalDragon Ugh! Too much punishment!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy oh no! it's contagious!
@@karloswald407 It’s a fact that the people you associate with affect your intelligence level, so be wary of hanging out with punny-brained people.
When you were discussing how big, encyclopedia-like entries of worldbuilding can slow down a narrative, it reminded me of something Brandon Sanderson said in his lecture about worldbuilding (he has a bunch of BYU lectures posted on CZcams). He said that one critical skill of the masters of science-fiction and fantasy writing is learning to control the flow of knowledge and integrating all that heavy worldbuilding in a manner that feels natural and isn't overwhelming.
That’s a very important insight that Sanderson articulated there. Thank you for sharing it!
There's definitely an art to creating a broad world that has unique and distinctive parts that all feel as though they work together. Not just a kitchen sink of fantasy locales that we move through. For example, I think the Realm of the Elderlings is a bit underrated for a really expansive and distinctive collection of terrains and landscapes--with varied atmospheric feels--that all works really well together. I also think that Eormenlond achieves this brilliantly. This is a wonderful resource, gents. Looking forward to the symbols discussion. Thanks!
I completely agree with you about Realm of the Elderlings - some beautiful world building there that is intricately linked to the story’s themes. I definitely tried to do that in The Edan Trilogy too. Cheers, Vaughn!
The best booktube duo
Cheers! 😊
You guys are pumping these out faster than I can keep up!
This was both informative and fun. Thanks for having these discussions! 😁
Thanks so much for watching! Much appreciated!
One thing I always greatly appreciate in world building is when an author gives his characters accents and quirks in their speech that aren't directly taken from real life. Like "Thankee-sai" or "do ye ken" in the Dark Tower or common phrases like "piss and blood" from the Nevernight chronicles. It really makes a fantasy world feel foreign to me and helps with immersing myself in the world. And when I am done reading, I have a hard time not to use these phrases in real life.
Excellent point! I love that too. Definitely part of the fun when it comes to fantasy!
This was an amazing discussion with a lot of important points that I'm happy were made. As a side note I think GRRM is an amazing and perhaps underrated writer of atmosphere.
I’m so glad you enjoyed the discussion, Eric! It’s a favorite topic of mine.
This was really a very inspiring video! Thank you!
I think some good examples such as the yellow/black taxi came up, but I'd like to ask specifically: what advice so you have for world-building in the present rather than on events that occurred prior to the main story?
This is for a graphic novel so feel free to use your one piece experience too!!
I imagine that most of the world building in a graphic novel is visual, which is a cool advantage because it doesn’t feel overly descriptive or like info dumping. Readers can take it all in at once, and the creator can be as subtle as they want. Most of the rest of the world building will occur during dialogue, and it’s probably best to be sparing and try to keep it as natural as possible. In other words, try to avoid characters saying something that is too obviously inserted into a conversation for the sake of world building and hence feels unnatural. Do you both characters know how a hover-car works? If yes, then there’s no need for one to tell the other. But if one character is from another planet, then there’s an opportunity to explain things. The important thing is for the dialogue to feel natural. The other thing you can do is have the narrator directly explain world building to the reader, but, normally, I’d advise keeping that to a minimum since it tends to be immersion breaking. That’s my take!
Came for the banter, stayed for the pun at the end.. 😁
I guess it shows how AP organizes his thoughts, I'm guessing the appundectomy didn't take? 😆
Professor Fireballs has proven immune to all forms of treatment as he keeps dishing them out with complete impunnity. Such a menace must be stopped!
Welcome to his channel on the best of Fantasy, the Magic Lecture continues!
Thank you for watching -- we will do our best to keep the spell going!
Wow! Another wonderful installment of this series! Setting and Worldbuilding is something I think that defines the very essence of a fantasy book for me - it is the Alpha for me (maybe prose is Alpha 1b, lol), and then characters are the Omega. I continue to be dazzled and haunted by secondary worlds in series like Prince of Nothing, Traitor's Son, Lord of the Rings, First Law, Gunmetal Gods, The Red Queen's War, The Dandelion Dynasty, Malazan, Wars of Light and Shadow, and The Edan Trilogy to name a few! Thanks for sharing your knowledge, gents, about this topic! Can't wait for the next one!
Your love for setting shines in A Drowned Kingdom, PL, and, I have no doubt, in the rest of your series as well. I look forward to getting lost once again in the world you’ve created!
I'm definitely becoming a more analytical reader in general, so these discussions have been great 😊
Yay! I'm happy to hear that the videos are helpful, Kat. I appreciate you watching and commenting!
Another great video in the series! I have just finished Invocation Ocean by Bruce Sterling I wish I had seen this before reviewing it, the setting there is so wild it deserved to be discussed more.
I am excited for the next one, Symbols and Symbolism, I went through a long Marie Louise von Franz/Jung phase and I can't wait.
@@OmnivorousReader I’m so glad you’re enjoying our ramblings!
I think a good example of how atmosphere affects believability even with the same setting is in Harry Potter. In the early books you have a lighthearted whimsical children’s story, where the silliness enhances the story if anything. But the later books transition to a darker young adult story, where the silliness of the world’s rules suddenly start to raise lots of questions even about basic life of the wizarding world.
For example, perhaps Dumbledore was a little careless in tossing 9-year-olds in front of a murderous Dark Lord? Sink or swim, kiddies! 😁
My favorite worldbuidling is in Wheel of time, Malazan, and How to train your dragon. In the last one, the author distinguishes each culture in funny ways to help young readers remember things better. Robert Jordan repeats the worldbuilding a lot, but I actually grew to appreciate it over time, because it made less things to remember all the time.
Those are brilliant examples of world building, for sure!
I really like these videos both for enjoyment and education. Hopefully it will show in my own book-related thoughts videos. The length of this one for me made it easy for me to watch in one sitting. Thank you both!
I’m so glad you’re taking something useful from our antics, Brian! Thank you for watching!
Every time I watch one of these videos I come away with more books for my TBR list. This time it's Karen Miller's Godspeaker trilogy.
You guys could write a book of essays on recommended fantasy novels. I'd buy it!
That would be a fun project! Cheers!
Series that have overly complex worlds that at the end of the day we hardly ever explore to its fullest, yet it is still there for us as readers to know are my favorites series. A song of ice and fire is a good example, Star Wars has a rich universe given from the many books made after its creation.
Dune is something that should certainly be praised for how rich of a world that was made from only 6 main books I think is very impressive when considering other settings that have the opportunity to have 100+ books.
Warhammer 40k is a grim dark sci-fi with origins from Dungeons and Dragons and mainly as a tabletop game. For them to make such a large complex setting with many factions and over 700 books that furthers the narrative or flushes out the lives of people in the world.
Dungeons and Dragons itself at its essence is all world building as well and narrative occurs both without the characters in the setting or when the characters do intervene and interact with this world built for a group of people to exist in a world that is believable, lovable, or enjoyable. In these worlds usually it is time sensitive and so as you make unique choices and it is an immediate butterfly effect on an alive world willing to move on without you. I’d never recommend replaying a DND adventure but the idea of how a story only exists with the players, but the setting and events will always remain the same until interacted with and altered is something I think you’d appreciate.
Beautifully said! I especially enjoyed your points about D&D!
Some of my favorite books (besides LOTR): Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere - real London juxtaposed against an underground darker myth based London, V E Schawb's Darker Shade of Magic series - where there are 4 Londons and the differences are crucial to the plot, Gregory Maguire's Wicked series - geography is key to the both the plot and the politics across the series and Ursula Le Guin's Wizard of Earthsea just because she manages to convey so much world building, setting and atmosphere with SO FEW WORDS. Hmmm, I have just realized that I really like books where setting is practically a character.
Setting does seem to be a theme (and a character) among your favorites! I’m convinced that Le Guin was a sorceress with words. Cheers!
Having recently read KJ Parker's "Siege Trilogy" (I'm not sure if it has an official designation), I'd put him up there with top class world building.
No map, first of all, so you have to build it in your imagination.
And there are lots of references to past events, other places and people that are placed in the story as passing references without explanation. It broadens the world without extra exposition and keeps the story moving.
I’ve been meaning to read KJ Parker ever since I first heard Allen raving about him.
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy That was the only one in my bookstore, I have since found the occasional one in used bookstores. The Folding Knife was terrific but unless you have love for logistics and economics, it might not be the starting point.
I tend to think of good worldbuilding as serving a dual purpose. It's cool to flesh out the world, but good worldbuilding will also further the narrative or reveal something about a character and what they choose to talk about/notice.
I agree! That sort of thoughtful world building can really deepen a story.
That nick-name isn't fantacy; it's horror. (great banter -- useful insights)
Ha ha! We cover all genres. Thanks for watching and commenting!
im learning a lot guys, keep the videos coming
I’m very glad to hear that - thank you for watching and commenting!
Another great video. Really loving this series gentlemen!
I think I am ready for my question....The reasons I have put it off a while are firstly it's a very general question, so not really appropriate to any one video. But also it could potentially be a tad negative and I didn't want to bring any negative vibes so early on in the series!
My question involves analysis and personal enjoyment. Having been a long time student and analyser of music (Bmus, Mmus), I have found that having an analytical brain which turns on immediately when I hear music can very much affect my personal enjoyment of it. This occurs in both ways! Music I listen to that may not be my personal taste preference can be much more appreciated upon analysis, however I conversely find a lot less music that really grabs me and affects me in the profound ways I am looking for. Does this happen to you two as life-long analysers of reading? Does it help you appreciate writing in books that aren't your taste? And do you find it harder to add books to those all important top 10 lists?!
I love these questions, Sam! I'm sorry to put off the answer, but I think we'll give you a more satisfying response if I save it for our final video, when we'll be directly addressing excellent questions like these. Stay tuned!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy That would be great! Also no worries if your video fills up with questions and you don't have space for it. I'm sure you are getting a lot of great question!
@@SamPegg90 I’m sure we’ll get to it, especially since it will be a fun one to address!
I've often said an author should do as much worldbuilding as they feel they need to convincingly tell their story. If one needs to know the ore content and currency exchange rates to create the necessary verisimilitude, awesome. If you just need a name in butchered Welsh and Old English to write, that's great too.
I love names in butchered Welsh and Old English! Currency bores me, but you know what they say about money: You put it where your mouth is, and it makes you talk.
A long time ago. In a galaxy far, far away.
Would you say atmosphere is a key component in a space opera?
Counter examples would be Elric and Black Company. For Moorcock, worldbuilding is fairly minimal by today's standards. Black Company also is sparse and would be more of a campaign than travelogue. But each fits very well tonthe stories presented. Written today, each book might be hundreds of pages longer.
You’re probably right about longer relative page length in recent times, but my sense is that fantasy novels are currently decreasing in length as attention spans continue to atrophy. Moorcock’s world building might eventually become indulgent! 😂
There is no atmosphere in space... opera. 😂😂😂😂😂
@@ACriticalDragonWhat was that AP? We can't hear you out there.. 🤣
A professor and a dragon walk into a fantastical locale to buy some ellbow patches.😁
I wonder how a dragon would look in tweed? 😁
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Can dragons even go near tweed? After all, it's fire retardant. I'm sure that would dampen their style quite a bit.😁🐲
Re: 19th century mysterious island, center of the earth stories, lost race stories, etc. Based on his "On Fairy Stories," I wonder if Tolkien would consider these "travelers' stories," which are exotic but take place "in some region of our own time and space, distance alone conceals them." That doesn't mean fantastic elements aren't present; it might even be otherworldly, but not a literal otherworld. Although, as A.P. points out, a center of the earth story couldn't work anymore...at least as a "traveller's story." Perhaps time has transformed something like my beloved Pellucidar series into something approaching a "portal fantasy?" Given Howard's essay "The Hyborian Age," and his great story "Kings of the Night," in which the Picts fighting Romans have a bloodline going back to the days of Atlantis and summon King Kull to them, his stories are intended, like Tolkien's fantasy, to be prehistory to modern human history and possess continuity with it. Of course, Howard's views of human origins are so dated, and, I believe, derived in part from then current-occult literature, that it's similar in fantasy to science fiction's wonderful "retro-futures" of steampunk, and art deco, mechanized cityscapes of skyscrapers and zeppelins. Is "retro-history" a term that could fit in fantasy like "retro-future" does in sci-fi?
Excellent points, Micah! It’s fascinating how each era’s various lenses color the way people think about and categorize stories, and those categories in turn influence the perception of those stories.
In part it is a different way of looking at the same thing. A Traveller Tale relayed adventures in a far off and therefore 'unknowable' place, in which 'different rules' applied, and in which 'strange things' could happen. In effect, a separation of mundane setting from a potentially fantastical setting/alien setting/foreign setting. With the shrinking of the potential unknowable places, and the shrinking of 'alien' places due to a more global society, the impulse to have a different land escapes the bounds of the known earth and either moves temporally to a different time period (future or past), to a different planet/plane of existence, or potentially makes the known unknown (as we see in Urban Fantasy).
Even before this we saw those thresholds being used in Faerie stories in which there is a boundary between the known, mundane, and the unknown Faerie realms.
For me, the classification is not necessarily in terms of travel story/adventure stories/travelogue but in how each of those sorts of narratives employed a distant or unknowable place to add adventure and an opportunity to explore beyond the mundane.
I find it fascinating how Urban Fantasy eschewed the movement away to a separate locale, and instead chose to make the mundane and local 'remarkable' and fantastic, and implied a hidden duality within the mundane that reinvigorates the setting.
@@ACriticalDragon Exhibit A: American Gods, a fantasy road trip!
@@ACriticalDragon Your observation on Urban Fantasy's relocation of the fantastic within the mundane and local makes me think of earlier 20th century horror writers, like early Bradbury, who Stephen King in Danse Macabre said "put the extraordinary within the ordinary" when they'd have a vampire working at a convenience store (King's example). These guys might be considered grandfathers of urban fantasy. These horror writers tended to be pulp writers, but both Charles Williams and Charles Finney did the extraordinary in the ordinary in more literary novels in the 1930s. And literary Magic Realism like Marquez's "A Very Old Man With Enormous Wings" did it as the 20th century progressed. Toni Morrison's Beloved is literary horror and magic realism, with the extraordinary within the ordinary. But no one does the extraordinary in the ordinary better than an old luchador movie starring El Santo, the silver masked man, who bounces back and forth between the wrestling ring and fighting Aztec mummies and vampire women on the streets of Mexico. Viva el Santo!
@@merleharris7485 We could also see some of those writers as building on the Gothic and the precursors to pulp horrors. The intrusion of the monstrous fantastic into the domestic, or the influence of the supernatural in making the mundane fantastical, albeit for the effect of horror, the sublime, or fear. Which could be seen as playing on the fear of the unknown, fear of the future, and fear of the other, as ways to disrupt the 'natural order' or the mundane. The movement from religion and the supernatural as a source of wonder, fear, and fantastic, to science as a potential source of wonder, fear, and fantastic, is so interesting.
Elbow patches are clearly the work of a dark lotd
Nay! I assure you they are a completely necessary defense against fireballs. Singed tweed is a tragedy of epic proportions!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy Tweed is a tragedy of epic proportions 🤣
My biggest most urgent question WHAT ACCENT IS THAT AP
Ha ha! AP is from Northern Ireland, but he does a pretty good English accent and American accent too when he wants to!
i need the backstory of why you are nemeses :)
Ha ha! Well, that’s quite a story. Perhaps it’s too long for a comment, but we’ll be answering questions in a final video for this series, so we will be sure to include the backstory of the Nemesishood in that video. Cheers!
@@PhilipChaseTheBestofFantasy excited to find out!
@@valliyarnl 😊
@@valliyarnlIt'll be interesting to see how this tale changes with the telling, and from the two specific points of view... 😁
I still have issues understanding psychic distance, could you elaborate please?
We’ll tackle that in the final video, Benjamin! Cheers!
Made me a little sad that you didn't mention Oda as an author reference for world building... :(
I still think of novels and manga as different (but related) media. Both allow great storytelling, but I hesitate to compare them because it’s an apple/orange situation. For example, manga is highly visual, and that introduces whole different categories for analysis. I’m also relatively new to manga, and my default mode of storytelling is the novel, so I tend to think of the latter first. That said, I agree that Oda deserves a mention for his world building!