Is 15W Loud Enough? | Low Wattage Amps as Live Tools
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- čas přidán 20. 11. 2018
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Is 15W loud enough the play with a band? While 15W may not seem like much, it's louder than you think and historically many bands have built carriers on low wattage amps. Find out more about the science and history with this video.
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I use a hundred watt stack to hide the sound of girls not screaming
If you unlock the basement and let them out they will probably stop screaming
Lol
@aNtiDIsEsTabLisHMenTaRiAniSM StRuCtuREd aGaiNSt yOu No shit sherlock
Nice
@Club Soda Oh shit, is so fucking sad... them actually have never heard guitar music... that is really fucking sad... well, manking is comming to the end if that is true.
"Unless it's the 80s, you're playing stadiums and you have thousands of girls screaming at you, and let's be honest, you don't."
And there's the confidence boost I needed to finish the day...
How about bass guitar amps? I need to get one and I'm hesitating. I do not have a band but maybe someday? I was thinking of a vox pathfinder for home practice but what about band and live use? Thanks and sorry if it sounds confusing.
@@blablablabla8613 It depends on how loud your band is, but most of the items in this video will still apply. I have a 130-watt solid state practice combo. For the band I play in, it's loud enough because I run a direct out (which are quite common on most modern bass amps) to our PA at practice and play through the amp's speaker, which is loud enough to play with this band even without the PA.
A louder band? It wouldn't be loud enough for practice without the PA. No PA and a louder band, it wouldn't be loud enough with a louder band.
It is loud enough to mic at shows, but most of the time at shows I keep the stage volume (level of amp's speaker) even lower than at practice, and run the direct out to the house mixing board and our stage monitors. This has included medium-sized venues and outdoor gigs with capacity for a few thousand people.
Since I like the sound of this preamp in my combo more than my larger amps, I've found that it's all I need for practice/rehearsal and live performance.
Before, I had louder amps and bigger speaker cabinets, but I found that in this day and age I don't need them. Eventually I do plan to buy a ~300-600-watt solid state head (hybrid with a tube preamp section) just because those are the amps I'm interested in the sound of, and a lightweight extension cabinet, maybe 2x12, 1x12 + 1x15, etc., but I'm in no huge need of those things right now.
@@InGrindWeCrust2010 Hey! thanks for taking the time to answer me buddy. The type of music I am into would be Grateful Dead "type" and a bit of heavier sometimes, garage / psyche like the black angels...
I am looking for a drummer who would play with a minimal drum kit (floor tom - snare - tambourine - ride) and a few guitar players.
I figure if I join such band we would play at really small venues and for very small audiences.
In the end, I ended up buying a Vox pathfinder bass 10, and I really like it sounds (I play an epiphone Tbird IV)
Also my wife said if I get into a band she might eventually buy me a Orange bass crush 100,
but I was wondering if there was a way I could mess up with the VOX line out and hook it to some another cabinet?
I know this is probably a dumb question, but at least I tried. Cause I really like the sound of this Vox when its got the drive at 9 o clock.
Again thanks for your time I really really appreciate..!!
@@blablablabla8613 Nah dude, that's a great question. I'll give you a specific answer, then I'll give you my broader opinion as a bass player.
I'm not somewhere where I can look up the specs of the Pathfinder right now, but if it has speaker out and is loud enough to keep up with a band or be heard in a small venue, *and* has a direct line out, you'll probably be set for what you need to do for now. That way if the amp has extra capacity for power but lets you hook up an external cab you can do that, and that will help you with the perceived volume and loudness item. The direct out of course will give you your pre-amp signal to go to PA whether it's for practice or venues.
I don't imagine you'll need anything beyond that for the time being.
In my case, I will likely go onto play with other bands as before, and look for a 300-600-watt solid state head and a lightweight cab. IMHO combos are too heavy rendering anything larger than a practice amp worth it to split up. I only say that because my perceptions of what kind of band I would play bass in has definitely expanded and modulated over the years. Happy plucking!
this needs to be on a shirt now!!
*Me, the bassist, sitting and crying in the corner with a 2000w peavey amp*
I do think that you need a higher wattage bass amp to play in a band. I have a Fender Rumble 40 and when I tried playing that with my band, no one could hear me. I had everything turned all the way up on that thing, yet I couldn't even hear myself. However, once I got a 200 watt Gallien Krueger head and 4x10 cab, I only needed to turn the master volume up to about halfway in order to be heard.
@@nickmendlik5788 Yeah, I definitely don't need all the watts, but I want em lol
So why not.
Hey you do you and I don't have any problem with that (I'm an audio engineer, 2KW bass amps get us excited tbh). It's interesting tho that some people just DI their bass and get it back through their monitors (or in-ears) and are also fine. These are much simpler times.
@BoozerBane you need that, i like it to hear my guitar / bass equally, nice sound. bass sadly needs way more power.
@paperchasin23 What is your problem?
The girls in my house scream "turn it down!"
Bro if you arent dragging a half stack to a 120 person cap bar and only turning up your volume to 1.5 then why are you even in a band
you could do like a guy that was in a band here... full stack, all knobs dimed, massive load box keeping that volume in check and it was still loud as fuck
one time he put the setup in his back yard without the load box, called me to tell me to step outside, hung up the phone, played one chord, i heard it about a mile away, his neighbors called the cops
SgtPnkks haha that’s fucking awesome
Because THE METAL
SgtPnkks sometimes ya just gotta fuckin send it lmaooo
@@SgtPnkks That's funny..... his neighbors were like "fuck this shit, I'm calling the cops" lmao
Fun Fact; Woodstock was pretty much the first time someone said "lets put microphones in front of the amplifiers and run them through the P.A." It was also the first use of a live mixing board, delay towers and stage monitors (in the form of side fills). If you look at earlier concert photos (eg; the Beatles) there would be one or two mics on stage in total.
Actually the Beatles at Atlanta Fulton County Stadium were the first time monitors were used at a live event. Woodstock was mixed on 4 channel Shure mixers ganged together so....no it wasnt the first there either.
@@craigpoole1868 and Shae stadium they ran it through the PA
Not very long after "stereo" was invented.
I have 3 girls screaming at me.
"Dad can you get me a snack! Dad can I go out? Dad! Dad! DaaaAD! 🤯
don't worry.... it will soon be.... "Dad, can i have some money?"
Yup. I know.
@@jarrusjenkins And then its meet my new boy friend
The most important ones that need to scream at you for sure
Well look at mister bigshot over here!
"If you see this today, I guarantee those cabs are just plywood fronts"
Laughs in O)))
I wonder how many people will get this joke
@@Haiasiriku I certainly don't.
@@Loebane It is a reference to seattle drone/doom metal band Sunn O))), who plays with multiple full stack Sunn Model T amplifiers. Their shows are like a massage chair across your whole body.
@@aazreaal oh that sounds awesome! I'm in the area, maybe I'll get a chance to see them perform.
@@Loebane They are pretty incredible live.
Word of advice though, don't try to get chicks by playing covers of their songs. They may cry themselves to ash.
I spend the whole time screaming watching your videos too so I can relate to those girls
Gear Gods Don’t we all! 😍
@@xXEmbracetheMetalXx yup, that accent makes me question my sexuality.
Ysha Ive accepted it.
I could not possibly say no to Colin.
Just hope he is willing to take me out for dinner first!
xXEmbrace the MetalXx yes, nothing like a dinner in candlelight while listening to Colin speak about guitar stuff 😍
those audiences from the 60s are kind of freaky and disturbing lol, most of them just stand there completely still, staring psychopathically and then there's loads of girls screaming and crying. It's like they were all possessed by some kind of weird zombie/demon curse
TOTALLY agree with you 100% Colin. (I headlined a stadium show in Malaya (as was) in 1963 with a a 15w Gibson amp with my co-guitarists using similar. (There were 14,500 in the stadium.) Even today (I'm 71 by the way...) my stage amp is a valve 20w. Great video. Keep 'em coming!
@@dibbyf2875 He meant the federation of Malaya. The country of Malaysia didn't exist at the time.
Reading your comment is priceless! Thank you for sharing your experience :)
Seriously? Wow!!
@@zachary963 Seriously!
@@thebeetalls ...in Malaya (as was)... 😉😜
Indeed. The question of 15W vs 100W is not usually about how loud you need to play, but rather how clean you need to sound.
a 100W amp, pretty sure i wouldn't be able to turn it all the way to 1.
@@zhou_sei as an owner of a superlead you are correct.
We really need to shift the conversation to be this instead.. it's the real question
Finley some one explained things better so I understand so a 20w combo for rock (clean and distortion) will go over a drummer
@@zhou_sei lol I turn mine to like 6 at my band's gigs cause I'm that guy and we play shoegaze
When you place speakers next to each other and on top of each other, as in the case of a 4X12 cabinet, or simply stack separate speaker cabinets or place them right next to each other, they actually multiply the distance the sound waves will travel. I went to recording engineering school way back in the 1980's and one of the classes was dedicated entirely to how sound waves travel through the air, and how to maximize the sound waves using different speaker configurations.
When two speakers are stacked together, the sound waves will travel nearly three times the distance than a single speaker, making the distance coverage nearly three times what two separate speakers placed away from each other will cover. That's because the sound waves from each speaker, actually help push the sound waves from the neighboring speakers through the air. It sort of works like drafting during a NASCAR race, where the cars will line up single file while racing around the track. That's because they can actually travel faster when they line up in a straight line, and use less fuel while doing so. The lead car breaks the air resistance, and the following cars actually help push the air behind the lead car, hence the term "drafting." Sound waves from speakers work much the same way. Multiple speaks in a sense create a drafting effect and help each other push the sounds waves through the air, so they can cover a greater distance together than they can separately, and they do so at a lower volume setting.
If you place one speaker on one side of the stage, and another speaker on the other side of the stage, the sound from each speaker will simply cover the distance two separate speakers will cover. However, place one speaker on top of the other, or right next to each other, and the sound waves coming from them will push through the air at nearly three times the distance. Does that make sense to everyone?
On a side note, am I the only one who watched this video, and then walked away talking in his accent for the next ten minutes? It's just good fun!
Kinda digging hooded, wise, sage Collin.
I feel like he should make an appearance more often
I dont know, over use him and he'll kinda lose his punch. Great addition that totally fits with the vibe of your vids though. Great work and info.@@ScienceofLoud
@@Bigscott4130 agree with both. totally appropriate for this video, and would like to see him in similar videos, but not every video. extremely well done! (call him caveat man!- the most annoying super hero ever).
@@ScienceofLoud did you ever do that video you mentioned at 10:11 ?
Yes, it was especially important in the 80's to be "Haired". XD
D.L.'s Studio I don’t usually make jokes about people’s accents, but that one was too good to resist.
That never gets old!! Haha
I guess Motley Crüe were.
Love that you covered the ‘fake wall of cabs’ thing. Blew my mind when I first learned that bands even did that. Only exception I can think of is Angus Young, who apparently still uses that; if his Rig Rundown’s anything to go by
I knew about empty cabs, which isn't so bad. But the image at 7:51 shocked me lol
@@nikolasmatviko4700 it's not that big of a deal, it's just part of the stage decoration.
Apparently Jeff Beck just uses a small fender champ miked up... Dont think he does the fake cab thing, but that's what PAs are for I guess
According to Rig Rundown Brian May also uses more than one Vox AC30 on stage. When I remember correctly he has six, but one ore two running as spare amps for the case of a failure.
Basically at this point, the only bands to still do the full wall of cabs is The Who, AC/DC, and stoner/doom metal bands like Sunn O))), Sleep, or Boris.
Adding more speakers, especially efficient ones, can dramatically improve the apparent loudness of your amp because they increase the "coverage" of your amp. A 15 watt amp through a 4x10 will usually sound louder than through a 1x12.
What do you mean "coverage"?
@@frugihoyi More surface are of speaker disperses the sound in a wider field, making it appear louder.
@@mikeaustin4138 thats true..But can I use my 5e3 Tube amp 15w with one 12" Speaker 8Ohm with an external Box? what Ohm must the 2 Speakers have?
So few seem to put much thought into speakers or cab types.I've got several smaller heads, which can sound entirely different depending on what they're matched with.Multiply this several times if it has optional ohm ratings on the outputs of the amp.
My amp broke so i tried hooking my small 10w Vox VBM1 to my cab.
NIGHT AND DAY
I knew this kinda, but this really laid it out in a way a moron like me can understand, so I learned a lot. Or, at least, I would have if you'd been speaking English 🤣
Boi what the hell are you talking about, this is the most perfect, sexiest english on this planet, I dare you to prove me wrong.
@@sebsthexeno9460 I'm not gonna try I was just trolling my boi
Haud yer weesht - he's 'spikin sassenach!
@@treyxaviermusic All is well, then, if we have a common understanding that Scottish is objectively the best accent.
It sounds perfect, but one has got to get used to it to understand. And I can see that he's trying a LOT!!
guitar amps are also helped by the frequency range in which the guitar sits. full spectrum amps for keyboards and electronic drums need more watts, and more volume in order to achieve the same perceived loudness; and bassists have it even worse!
Yeah my small bass amp can't be heard at all over drums lol but I have a bigger one
There is some truth here. I have gigged with a 300 watt GK head and cab and a 60 watt Fender combo. I never had a problem being haired with either. I wouldn't go any lower than the 60 watts, but you don't need much bigger than that.
In fact, I wound up selling the GK stack and gig almost exclusively with the Fender.
At least until I got a 200 Watt micro head at carvin's clearance sale.
@@ryanbwags but the GK is solid state watts, no? Is the Fender a tube amp?
Which is why I've upgraded from a 90watt keyboard amp (terrible headroom!) , to a 2000 watt powered speaker!
famitory bassists have it fine. Ask Glenn. We don't need them getting any ideas
I worked as a roadie in the 70s, you can imagine how much backline we had to get in.Don't even start with 2 guitars bass and Hammond B3 and cab. Twin Marshall stacks were order of the day, nightmare.
So they didn't mic up the amps then? Would they mic the drums?
@@465marko didn't mic up amps back then, they just came off the stage. Wasn't uncommon to have 3 stacks full on. Had to.
@@acegibson9533 Yeah, right. I thought that might be the case, from looking at old concert footage and stuff. Thanks for confirming.
I think that another reason for not mic-ing up amps in the 60s and 70s was that so many PA systems were poor.
Shoegaze forever , , , , there were none ! , , , The most was a Shure column for voices !
7:44 Yes, except if you're Angus Young
I always wonder cause I’ll always be a bedroom guy, recording artist dude- I don’t need loud so I’m really glad you put this one out
15 watts is too much for bedroom use, in my opinion. You're way better off with 4 or 5 watts. I use a Vox AC4BL. It's a perfect bedroom amp with a few pedals.
David bazan
@@drothberg3 You are correct! 15 watts is too much for bedroom if you want to saturate the power tubes.
I have a soldano astroverb, which is 18 watts from 2 EL84s, but it is not a problem because soldanos are designed to make all their tone from the preamp. You don't have to crank the power section to filter out buzz and fuzz from the lead tone because the preamp makes the right sound in the first place.
Playing live this amp is at 8 (out of 11). The 1x12 combo gets the job done, but if you need more volume you can go to a 2x12 or 4x12.
But if you need a pristine clean tone you need more power.
I am too. I am currently using boss katana 50 watt amp in the 1.5 watt setting and that's all I need to practice.
@@davesaenz3732 how’s ur tones on the boss katana lol
I can't wait until archaeologists unearth footage from a Beatles concert a thousand years from now.
"These beetle-men must have been so terrifying that they caused a mass panic everywhere they went, complete with the females screaming and spontaneously urinating. We've reconstructed an image of one of these beetle-men, I believe this one was named "Ringolos Starthurax" -shows image of a half-beetle, half-man-"
"GOOD GOD IT'S HIDEOUS"
Lauscho's Reviews and VLOGS Too FUCKING funny 😆😆😆😆😆
I forgot to mention that they'll figure out a way to tie this to the curious case of "the Spider man".
The beatles are already relevant to this post.
They retired from playing live after their Shea field gig, because their amps were underpowered to fill the stadium.
They couldn't be heard due to the screaming, which bummed them out so much, they never played live again.
Don't know if your joking or not but they really quit playing live because everywhere they went was complete pandemonium. Had nothing to do with live sound.
Yeah plus when they toured America they were getting death threats and got real worried about being shot. So anyway, later on John Lennon moved to America...
I have seen many bands play with low watt “lunchbox” amps (tiny terror is very common) and they can definitely do the job- especially if the guitar player knows how to dial in their amp to cut through the mix. It’s not just about your tools, it’s also how you use them.
You just need to mic the amp into the PA
I sold my 100 watt amp and bought a 20 watt amp that can dial down to 1 watt and now am very happy. I am not playing stadiums so small lunchbox amps are perfect for home practice/recording and jam sessions small gigs. Plus easier on my back and wallet.
More amps, More volume, More sound, *MORE GAIN*
But no mids, SLAYER
@@vigilantebird8675 0 MIDS
M E T A L Z O N E ! !
Tyler Wolfguard, I agree with the 'more sound, more volume part' but the less wattage the more gain is obtainable because you can work a smaller amp harder than higher wattage heads. You also get more headroom with higher watts. Now power tube breakup, the kind one can only get from high volume is probably thicker, has more body the more tubes you are driving. 100wt heads cranked are definitely more distinctive than a 15wt practice amp. That's why a 30wt Jackson or Rivera with double the power tubes of a standard amp in the same category has such great sound.
Great vid', dude! This got me thinking, I bought a Laney Ironheart, and one of the reasons was, you can theoretically use the full wattage of the amp, but at low volume. Does this kind of sorcery actually work, or is it just fake news supposed to make ignorant people like meself buy the damn thing?
Dear Collin, thanks for handing out a bunch of information in a very clear, concise and down to Earth manner. Keep up the good work and congrats! Cheers and a big hug from Brazil!
I got my head round this concept a while back, but for those who were still unclear, this is a great explaination. Subscribed !
I agree with everything you said, especially the point about speakers having more play on volume EXCEPT....practical application!
I was in a band with 3 guutarists, well four if u count the bass player (which we never do lol)
They had 100w 1/2 stacks, i had a 30 watt twin combo, plugged into another 2x12 ext cab (all were valve amps)
I just could NOT compete, i was always distant in the mix, lacked bottom end and my mids couldnt cut!
I tried everything- smart eq settings, carefully thought out amp placements, boost pedals, i even got frustrated so much one practice that i just cranked my volume to a silly level and still felt under powered.
Then it hit me!
There WAS no other guitarists, nor was i even in a band!
Infact, i didnt even play guitar!
Thanks to this on stage problem, i realised that i was cripplingly insane and was in desperate need of medical help.
After watching your video collin, i once again realise that there is absolutely no need to be concerned about my imaginary amplifier being underpowered, furthermore, the weight of on stage volume Inadequacies has been lifted so much, that i can now carry on with my true calling!....to peel myself with a potato peeler!
Thankyou and stay fresh my little mint flavored basketballs!
@Brody Sodon I agree. I haven't' read work like this since Hunter Thompson blew his brains out at Owl Farm. I'm still trying to make sense of it but maybe that's something that is just not meant to be done.
Bless you sir. I've had to keep these thoughts to myself for years for fear of ostracizing myself from the metal community and guys with a lot of money that like to buy giant amps because reasons. Finally someone said it. Subscribed.
You are very correct about the original reason for Marshall stacks etc.
So nice to here a genuine Scottish musical lilt and a man who knows his stuff.
I had a 68 Fender Twin Reverb with 2 JBL alnico 12s, it was an utter beast, overbuilt like tanks
you can stuff your Brit 200 watt stacks (cheap Fender copies)
in the real world my Twin was a LEAST twice as loud. As live sound evolved I rarely had my Twin over 2 !!
Although only rated at 85-100 watts my tech said it was more like 300-400 watts of REAL sound. I gave it to my
Bass player who said it was the best amp he ever played through.
That explanation about loudness VS power was so clear 👏
Once upon a time, I had to fill a busy basketball court with sound while surrounded by brass and percussion. The court had no PA I could splice into, so it was even worse. I was heart-set on getting a 4x12 and 50w head, but the folks on the UG forums set my head on straight. I ended up getting a DV Mark 40w 2x12 valve combo amp and I was getting yelled at when the volume hit 8. 40w is PLENTY loud for anything you'll need it for unless you're playing outdoors with no PA.
I still have the thing. It sounds great, but I can't turn the volume past 3 without rattling windows :P
Dude I can't crank my AC30 past half without upsetting the neighbourhood. 2x12 with tubes behind it will always be enough.
Imagine having an amp that could send sound equally around the space without cranking up volume to increase the sound waves reach. Like have ur amp running at a pleasent volume and even people at elevated places or places way in the back could hear what ur hearing on stage as if u were right next to them. Im not talking amps miced up either. Who knows maybe with some more material science inventions and physics tests being run we could get something that works to get a bands sound around huge venues without the use of PA systems. Almost like a Sound Reflectory System that works the opposite of eating away sound. Like instead of sound proofing it carries the sound through large distance and ensures the quality of sound doesnt diminish in pitch. The only big issue i still see is probably a lag between what occurs at distances where ur way in the back of a huge venue. I wonder if for outside festivals if it would even be applicalble.
@@IanWrigleyNZ Im a corner house so i cranked my ac 130 to half and when i had my old pedal rack i would make a ton of noises that would only bother my family whod tell me to turn down. My Neigbor loves guitar and Hendrix he even plays from time to time and some guys who live on my street play other instruments. I currently traded in for a space friendly setup with a Valvetorex which isnt half bad, i really like the pushed cleans, that doesnt take up a lot of space since my bedroom is small. Im more into saving up for a guitar than a functional eat someones face of amp with extra grit and bite. That'll all come later.
I was in the same scenario last night, actually. I was using a fender frontman 25 (laugh as you want, its what was available to me), and 4 on the volume knob was plenty loud from the 25 watt amp for the gym.
@@MaddesG1 That was the general idea of the Grateful Dead's gear & PA experiments in the early '70's. "The Wall of Sound" Huge power used not for massive volume, but to push clean sound at reasonable volumes around large venues. The pre-cursor to most modern day line array large venue PA's. I like your idea for next generation! Go get your electrical engineering PhD with a concentration in soundwave physics! ;)
This was an amazing video. I'm loving these, all the information without any crap and some food for thought in one package.
I'm researching Mini Rectos right now and this came up in the "up next" column. Great info, and I was thoroughly entertained! Great stuff!
Subscribed for sure. I just spent an hour looking for this same exact info. I suppose if I would have typed in "relationship between wattage and volume in guitar amplifiers" I may have gotten something close, but I didn't think to type that as I didn't know exactly what I was looking for, lol. Awesome video man, thank you
I think something’s been missed here. It’s not wether a 15w amp can keep up with a band (of course it can) it’s how a 15w vs 100w keeps up with the space your playing in. I went from 100w to 30w and noticed I hit the ceiling a lot faster with 30w in larger rooms and open spaces, you get into the less volume more gain scenario faster. Headroom is also very important, probably more so that wattage when cranking an amp.
Headroom was deliberately omitted from this video as this scenario is a whole video to itself.
@@ScienceofLoud I'm looking forward to that video. That's the part I need help understanding. How many watts is needed to be loud enough to play over drums, yet still have a clean signal. I want distortion from my pedals, not cause I tried to turn my amp up too much, ya know.
Don’t forget that in band practice spaces you can place blankets or other sound absorbing materials up on the wall, which will help cut down on that excess noise from drums and amps.
Works like a charm! 🙂
I agree completely. Headroom is definitely the Joker here. If you're looking for crisp, sparkly bell-like clarity, and a huge venue, you better bring some wattage.
But I kind of like hearing the tubes sweat some.
Robert Horning Honestly, it’s tricky for most people to come right out and say “_________ is enough wattage for _______.”
It can depend on the quality of the amp, tubes, power section (whether solid state or tube powered), size of the room, loudness of the drums, how your pickups react to how hard or soft you pluck the strings, etc. Tons of factors to consider.
In one of my last (metal) bands, we practiced in a small basement room, I had an 80 watt solid state Marshall combo amp, and I was STILL having trouble being heard over the drums, due to the sound of the drum cymbals bouncing off the walls (no dampening material used on walls). The Marshall’s volume was cranked to about 7 or so, and it didnt have enough to keep up.
I hook my 1-12 100 watt rated Crate speaker cab up to the speaker out on the Marshall, turn up to about halfway or more on the amp volume again, and problem solved! I could finally hear myself clearly.
However, I took that same Marshall amp to a friend’s larger space (no extra cab, just the amp) with blankets on the walls, and I can hear myself no problem.
SO many factors...
Dammit, I keep learning so much each time Colin post a new video...
yes
at 4 seconds into it.. i used to lug around huge speaker cabs and big heads... i would never do that again. if the venue doesn't have a pa to mix everything it probably isn't paying much anyway
Please do a live demo showing us your ideas. I would like to see a 100 watt am and a 15 watt amp go head to head in a live band situation.
You aren't alone. Good idea.
I feel like that would be kinda hard to capture
I've seen many sound engineers putting a microphone (or two) in front of the amp. You can get really good sounds and fine tune it well by changing the microphone placement. In a gig I went to yesterday. the master volume of a Fender Twin Reverb ('65 , 85 watt combo) was set to 3. This band had 3-4 backing vocalists 2 synthesizers, bass and drums too.
Even then you could monitor the guitar from the amp rather than relying on stage monitors.
I was playing colleges in their largest halls during the mid to late 60s my rig was a Telecaster and Princeton Reverb (12 watts) I remember being asked to turn down on a couple occasions. BTW my rig was never mic'd. I miss that setup. Fast forward to 2019,...I sold all of my high wattage amps and replaced all of them with a 20watt Marshall tube amp head and a 10" open back cab.
I’ve had this argument many, many times, over the years. I stuck to my 15w amps
I use a 12 watt 5e3 "tweed deluxe" clone - plenty loud for the gigs I'm playing with plenty of tonal options, however in my cover band I use a 30 watt amp, simply for the headroom required by different genres. Great video, even the ad wasn't too bad :-)
Quick answer: In any real venue now, the speaker will be miked and run though a PA. Amp power doesn't matter at all, because the PA does the work in generating the volume. Even w/o a PA a maxed 15W amp is pretty loud and can be enough for a small indoor venue with unamplified drums or other acoustic instruments. Issue is more about how the amp sounds when you crank it up, rather than volume.
"or pounds and Euros if you live on a better continent"... I agree and I'm Canadian!
You would, pussy.
Thanks Colin - always the best explanations on the internet.
That was excellent - looking forward to seeing the other clips
@JACK WURZER ~ I play a MMO, have done for six years, that's my nom de plumb pudding and pic that goes with it "/
Jeff "Skunk" Baxter used a 20 watt tube amp live but used it as a personal monitor and sent the signal into the PA board and amplified that signal when he played live with Steely Dan and the Doobie Brothers.....and one more thing: The first 100 watt amps were Fenders from as early as 1957 because Dick Dale asked them to.
I still like to feel the back legs of my trousers flapping when I’m standing in front of a 1/2 stack!
A man of quality
Good work, glad to see you included speaker efficiency.
I need this message everywhere. Thank you so much!!
Great video, you are so intelligent. I use a 150 watt tube half stack and it's handy for outdoor gigs when we don't have a PA, I've never used a 15 watt amp, but I think I will try one and see what happens. I think you're great and I love watching your videos. Cheers from Oklahoma City USA.
Please assure me that you use ear protection
I like your Top Gun cover... well done.
I remember being asked to do a scottish accent in iambic pentameter
back in 2004, this was for the scottish play. I spent hours watching and modulating Ewan McGregor in trainspotting. All work done, they told me my accent was great but to unintelligible. I wish I had heard you before, I think your accent is on point and something worth of saying 'Money Penny'.
I don't remember Moneypenny in Macbeth...
@@pabcrane CSguitars Scottish dude-"what accent? You're the one with the accent." ha.
This was hugely useful information. Thanks for making and posting this video.
Mate, I think I learned more watching this video than I have for the last year. Thank you.
I’ll be darned if I still don’t wanna own a Sunn Model T haha
Santana plays a 15 watt live! On stage!
I fully agree. I always used high power amps and I never went past even quarter the master volume. This led to thinner sound. Now I use 1 watt channel (internal power brake) on a 15 watt amp and it sounds amazing and full even on low volumes.
your channel is just amazing. Glad i´ve found ya m8
Finally, someone said it! I've got an Orange Micro Dark which I think is rated at 20 watts. People often look at it as if it's some kind of toy. But, paired with a 1 x 12 cab, you'll quickly realize that this tiny thing can get super loud - even as a hybrid. BTW your demo of the Micro Dark is what made me buy it. Thanks for that. Sounds awesome.
I remember the first time I ever say a Micro Terror was atop a 4x12 cab on stage at a show my band was playing.
It belonged to a guitarist in one of the other bands and I had the "that's seriously your amp?" conversation with him.
Despite looking really odd, it certainly managed to keep up with their death metal sound, really did make me question why I was lugging around a huge, heavy amp when really that's all that was needed.
Well if a 15watt terror is good enough for Brent Hinds’ (and Jim Root also actually) signature amp, there’s clearly nothing wrong with it
I use a Micro Terror mounted to my pedal board running through a 2X12. Zero problems being heard.
I've got one too. It's loud as hell. Love it
@@ScienceofLoud well said, I gig'd once with a Blackstar HT-5 (5watt) through a 4x12 cab
Other people laughed. 5 watts. What a joke. His where they suprised.
7:45 yeah unless you go see Sunn O))), or Boris or Sleep or something. No dummy cabinets there
Yeah, but most bands aren't playing drone-y doom-y sludge metal. I loved seeing Matt Pike's Rig Rundown, insanely loud but still very controllable and no screaming feedback unless he wanted too
I was about to head to bed and this video had me glued to my laptop for an extra 12 minutes. Well done sir!
Very informative video about amps man! As a rock band based in Singapore, we always want it louder!!!
I use an Orange Tiny Terror combo. I changed the speaker to a more efficient Celestion and keep it off the floor with either a stand or a beer crate and it's fine. Most guitarist I meet at gigs who struggle to be heard over the band tend to have too much gain or poor EQ settings. It's not the power of the amp but how you utilise it. Good video.
Alex Walker NO MIDS! ALL THE GAIN! And they wonder why once the band kicks in their guitar is swallowed.
I remember the first few gigs I played with using a 1x12 combo I turned the gain all the way up, put the amp on the floor pointed at my knees, and then wondered why I couldn't hear myself.
@@chrisnguyen1186 yup, sometimes i forget how my 4x12 projects, and set it too loud because i'm standing right next to it live! but even a 1x12 or 2 x12 can project really well if you just raise it up a little. put it on a box or stool. huge difference. (even when recording i raise my 4x12' speakers off the ground to let the bass expand a bit more naturally before reflecting off of the floor).
Wise words! I own a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III (40watts)+ Les Paul Classic. That amp has an insane wild RMS. It's great for the deepness of the clean, but I've never been able to reach 3 on the volume knob, before becoming deaf, or being shooted! 😄
The guy I play with has the same amp. He's using an ES335 that feeds back horribly if he turns it past 2. Everywhere we have played his amp has been miced and run through the PA. Shoundguys constantly tell him to turn it down. It does have great transparent headroom and the beautiful clean tones Fender is known for. It can also make ears bleed in small clubs.
Thanks, this gave me a different thought process for my rig budget. Subbed
this video was exactly what i was looking for. thanks for a simple explanation that made everything understandable
"Leets be ownest, ya down't."
hahaha
A little sad ...but true. But in all honesty, I still have a 120 watt halfstack that I like to stretch the legs on. And I'm never giving it up.
I wouldn't either
The biggest setup I used at gigs was a 65 watt music man head with a 4x12 cabinet. That was in the early 1980s. I wish I had my Carr Mercury 8 watt 1x12 combo back then.
EXCELLENT VIDEO!!! Can't wait for the next video on head room and cabinet sensitivity.
Additionally to anyone reading, an Amp running thru a 1x12 cabinet will be less loud than that same Amp through a 2x12 cabinet. And so forth with a 4x12. If your venue has a PA save your back and scale down!
I've been telling my friend for years that 15-20w are loud enough. He is convinced that anything under 100-150w is "a practice amp"
His ears will understand
Agreed! If I set my 50w combo to 2w it's still ear splittingly loud if turned up.
15w is frankly over kill, I'd be interested to know how many 15w's through a 12 or 15" speaker/speakers ever actually get cranked up to 10 whilst playing with a band.
That was a great video, thanks Colin!!!
I'm anxiously awaiting the videos about headroom and cabinets now :D
Yep! That's what I was thinking. 1-5-15 watt amp LOW CEILINGS
Some solutions for the “I can’t hear myself over the drummer” problem: 1) mic the speaker and pipe it through your stage monitor (what most pros do); 2) aim the amp speaker at your ears (lots of novices put them on the floor aimed at their legs); 3) replace the cheap stock speaker with a substantially more efficient one (that’s much better of translating amp wattage into speaker loudness); 4) increase loudness by using additional speakers (more speakers = more air moving). Finally, to get more clean headroom on a tube amp...(do this only if you know it is safe for your amp): try compatible lower gain tubes (e.g., switch typical v1 slot 12ax7 preamp tube to a 5751 preamp tube).
Mark Hill why rely on any of that shit for your onstage volume - and, more importantly, tone? Why not just use an amp that’s the right volume to begin with? You aren’t causing any volume problems by keeping up with the drummer, but you are in control of your tone. Mic’ing up a small amp is fine if you have a sound guy who (1) gives a shit and (2) has some clue what you should sound like. In most cases, you’re going to get about 4 out of 10 on both of those, and your gig is going to be miserable.
Don’t confuse the average gig with some successful band who can employ and travel with their own selected sound guy.
If you have to be mic’ing for FOH, so be it. But you might as well give them YOUR sound rather than something you can’t control because you can’t hear the source.
Mark Hill you forgot 5) wreak violence on your drummer, and 6) replace the cheap stock drummer with a substantially more efficient one...
As a proud owner of a joyo zombie I can assure you it is more than loud enough for any setting through a 1x12 or 2x12
Dicks Malone I’ve got a meteOR through my Mesa 2x12 and it’s plenty loud and sounds kickass
sixstring samurai those 2 amps are honestly the best you can get for the money. The amount of killer tone in those is insane!!!
Loud enough for a band setting? I really fancy one of these!! Thanks
@@jonjoe9232 Definitely man, I've got a AC15 and it keeps up/ overpowers my drummer, so one of those zombies/ bantamps will definitely keep up.
@@KingBlonde thanks man!!!
I used a deluxe reverb for decades after I realized a JCM 800 was just to damn loud unless I used a power soak and I was still asked to turn down in smaller rooms and I'm also a sound engineer so I get it.
Very interesting! Thanks - I learned some cool stuff today. Thanks also for the Physics lesson :). Rock on!
When I played guitar regularly, I gigged with a 20 watt Mesa combo that literally would rattle glasses in a bar (got yelled at many a time by bartenders and soundmen, heh).
Dude, I studied elec eng in college (3yrs) and a full BscHon in Elec Eng and you are so good at explaining this. I should take lessons so my family understands me better!
Absolutely brilliant video and completely put all me inner thoughts straight. Thank you man.
Another excellent informative video. I love your style.
I got myself an Marshall Origin 50W Head recently, now I think 20W Head would have been enough.
btw. awesome video
Vlad, I did buy a 20 watt Origin head nearly a year ago (I've got a lot of amps) and it is loud enough through a 4x12" cab. The 20 watt and the 50 watt do sound quite a bit different though which has nothing to do with volume.
I quite like the sound of the 50, it's beefy and sturdy if that makes sense but the 20 was likeable to me and I wanted something smaller that I could possibly use at a gig if needed. You may well have been able to 'get away' with the 20 in terms of volume but if you like the sound/tone of the 50 then remember that the 20 wouldn't just be a step down in wattage but a real change in sound. Both are good amps in my estimation.
Don't think so man !
If you can't afford a tube amp, I'd recommend adding a speaker output on your standard 15w practice combo amp of choice, and running it off a decent cabinet. You'll be surprised by the results!👍
how could I do that with my 15 watt beginner amp? lol
@@allephdacosta6760 Warning: Audio in this video is loud, but the instructions are quite clear and easy to follow: czcams.com/video/f0eT4mUgJSE/video.html
Also another good video on the subject: czcams.com/video/WvC-V4nHtwE/video.html
Just a reminder: NEVER WORK ON AN AMP PLUGGED INTO THE WALL.
To be safe, unplug it for a day or so, and with it STILL UNPLUGGED, turn the power switch on for a second and then off, to discharge the capacitors in the circuit, THEN you can work on it.
A lot of the “satisfaction” of playing with high wattage is really the feel of the speakers moving a lot of air. My Katana Artist sounds brilliant as it, but man when plugged into my Peavey Classic 4x10 cab, even at the 0.5 watt setting, everything just feels bigger and beefier.
blackcorvo My crappy Vox VT100T has a speaker out and I just ran it through my friend’s marshall cab and holy crap was there ever a huge difference in sound. I always liked the VT despite it just being a lame modeling amp, but when played through high quality speakers it’s on a whole other level. Thanks
If you can't afford a tube amp, save up until you can.
In the late 70's playing large clubs and outdoor gigs, I used three Blackface Bassman's, which were about 30 watts each as I remember, and had three cabs: two 8x10's and a 4x15 which were almost always mic'd. I rarely had the volume beyond 3.They were heavy, deafeningly loud as our rehearsals were louder than our performances (at 64, my hearing is shot from those days). These days, and for many, many years now, I use a 13 watt single ended PTP wired true Class A with massive 1950's transformers ( which is a key factor in 'headroom' and RMS wattage output rating, as technically, this amp didn't hit 'clipping' until almost 19 watts) that a friend built, with a clean boost if needed (rarely), generally with two ultra lightweight 2x10 cabs that I built. Everything is mic'd, I can crank it if needed for more break up yet have plenty of headroom, I get far superior tones to my ear, and can play with any decent drummer. And even though I've used ear plugs for 35 years, I'm deaf in one ear and can't hear out of the other. So, to each his own but I'll stick to my current rig, thank you very much.....
Excellent explanation - and very true, if we're honest with ourselves.. These days, I tend to use the smallest gear I've ever had - namely a Hughes and Kettner 18 watt valve amp and a single 1 x 10 H & K speaker cab - and it's EASILY loud enough for regular gigs in pubs and clubs that most folks do. The extra benefit is that I can get the whole 'rig' in a large carrier bag or sports holdall, so it's a breeze to transport it. If I crank the amp up, in pure volume terms it would give any 50 watt amp a run for it's money as Colin says. The only amp that I am aware of (happy to be corrected) that really shouts loud beyond it's stated wattage is my vintage (1964) Vox AC30 - but I think that's because of it's famous treble 'chime' that cuts through like a shard of glass. The downside is, it's a heavy old box though..... But, if you want a real muscle test, get a pal (you will need him) and try picking up a Burman combo - or a concrete bridge as they weigh about the same !
I use an ampeg V4 full stack if I want to look impressive. Total control of my tone with and without pedals. I've got a Modded Carvin VTR 2800 1/2 stackcause it's just a badass and a Carvin X100b 1/2 stack cause I'm one of those guys that knows how to dial in active equalizers graphic or parametric. This said I also carry a TOM SCHOLZ POWER SOAK!
Now I can be HAIRED at a reasonable level if the soundman is GOOD and If he needs TRAINING well I have that under control too.
If you find a15 watt with the tone you can live with, well more power to ya. Me I just want a
BEAST ON A LEASH
I only have 20w and my neighbours just love it when I go above volume 3
I was gifted a 150watt solid state yamaha from the 80s. My neighbour loved it so much she called the cops to come hear it too.
@@Reveltt it is our fate and destiny my friend. And that's quite a gift btw.
@@Nr1from1978 used to organise and play gigs for my school so they gave me and old amp they had lying around when they were clearing up
There is a reason I am subscribed to this channel. Great info simply put!
Thank you for this video. I've been wanting to get an all tube amp and have been obsessing over whether or not I could be happy with a 30 watt head and after watching this I think I can.
I would love to hear you explain how the speakers and cabinet affects volume and tone. looking forward to your next video on this topic.
As an aside, generally an amp’s power rating is based on how loud it can get until a distortion threshold is achieved. Total harmonic distortion is generally used as the distortion metric, and different amounts of THD are used as threshold. So you can increase the power rating of an amp just by letting your power rating to allow for higher THD. Usually a guitar amp’s power rating is based on generalized outputs of an amp’s power tubes, they don’t seem to actually test an amp’s actual output anymore, they just know stuff like “two 6L6’s generally provide 60 watts of output”
So many guitar amps can operate beyond the measured THD threshold, so a 100 watt amp can put out more than 100 Watts because it’s power rating is based on THD and not how much power it can produce. Also, distorted signals tend to also sound louder to an ear that clean signals (much of this has to do with harmonic content of the signal, and how complicated signals/more harmonic sound louder due to human physiology and psychology). Also add in that ears aren’t equally sensitive across the sound frequency spectrum
This all results in very broad, inaccurate and presumptuous conclusions about how loud amps are and how many “watts” are needed or desired. Power rating is one of the most useless ratings for me when I evaluate an amp
In a previous band, I played with a 100 watt amp and 412 cab. At one point a new guitarist joined the band and he came in with a 20 watt amp and a 212 cab and blew my setup away! Since then I have scaled down my rig a lot!
@@hino-ucanada4506 indeed it did😅
@@davidfaustino4476 Probably shit EQ settings as well
I really like your videos, specially this one, because not only my students have these doubts, but most of the guitar players that I've worked with, made terrible decisions in buying amps and expensive ones. Nowadays in live performances if you work with a good sound company, you will never have problems with listening everyone on stage. The main "problem" are the drummers, that is what defines how much power you will need in your amp. For Jazz/blues drummers you will be safe until 50 watts tube. For my drummer rock/metal, up to 50 watts garanty, he is a power drummer. Once the other guitar player came to the rehearsal room with a 30 watts tube Engl combo amp and we could only hear him with everything in maximum volume, so no clean sounds, too fuzzy and no definition. Hope this can help. Thank you once again for this great video.
Very informative video. You covered a lot of interesting stuff.
Recently bought a boss katana 100w 1x12. The price difference to double the wattage was pretty small so I figured why not. I have yet to use the 100w power setting 😆 and our drummer is quite loud. It’s a great amp for those who want a plethora of built in effects and customizations and don’t mind a solid state amp. It sounds great to me. Takes some fiddling to get the best sound possible. Also satisfies that wattage desire (even if we don’t use it) and won’t break the bank. Cheers
Bass player just bought the 110 bass kantana....he loves it!
I bought the 50 Katana years ago for practice but fet it was a little to low with drummer . Sent it back for the 100w . The 100 a little heavy to lug around . Also play with 15 w bass breaker . Load enough for p ractice ,but have to mic it for gigs
Tube amps are significantly louder than solid state amps. A 15 watt tube amp is about like a 50 watt solid state. 😊
@@DavidSmith-xz4zz I’m not sure that ratio is accurate but could be! Haha, they also weight 17 as much per watt lol ;)
If the two 20 watt amps I have are anything to go by, 20 watts through a 2x12 is loud enough to make things fall of the wall. At half volume, they're both stupidly loud.
Although I already was conscious of this truth, there where some little details I wasn't so clear about, and you really presented the topic in a super-informative and funny way! Thx! :))
I love the Vox Mini5 amp, very loud for its size and has loads of effects built in too.