DEBATE: Dan Barker vs. Mike Licona (Did Jesus rise from the dead? - 2003)
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- čas přidán 11. 02. 2014
- This was Mike Licona's first debate. It took place at the University of Wisconsin (Madison) on April 14, 2003. He and atheist Dan Barker (Freedom From Religion Foundation) debate the question "Did Jesus Rise From the Dead?"
Mike Licona is now associate professor of theology at Houston Baptist University. HBU offers a fully accredited Master of Arts degree in apologetics that may be completed entirely online or on the HBU campus in Houston. For more information, visit bit.ly/2Wlej6Z.
WEBSITE: www.risenjesus.com
FACEBOOK: / michael.r.licona
TWITTER: / drmikelicona
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If you like Mike's work, become a patron by visiting his new Patreon page at / risenjesus
After four strong cans of lager mixed with cider, I have seen and met with Jesus! Amen!
I saw Jesus in my banana 🍌 at work ….. therefor I converted
Mike, you are just like all of the other apologists, you get an A for mental gymnastics but an F for logic and reason. A quote from Thomas Paine will help,
Is it more probable that nature should go out of her course, or that a man should tell a lie? We have never seen, in our time, nature go out of her course; but we have good reason to believe that millions of lies have been told in the same time; it is therefore, at least millions to one, that the reporter of a miracle tells a lie.
@Ju Err: Well said.
FindleyOcean: Spoken like the archetypal ignorant atheist. Licona won this in a shutout, no contest.
Saying Mike gets an F for logic & reason is very disrespectful. The guy is a PhD scholar, not a trolling YT pop enthusiast.
Bad mouthing Licona & his argument is classical of one human who really believes he's a "small god".
@@gavinhurlimann2910 who cares if Licona is a Phd? Newton used flawed reasoning regarding alchemy, and he literally changed the world. Einstein really believed the universe is static, so he modified his equations so it would fit his belief. This happens when u are already convinced of something and try to find proof. Your logic is flawed. About Mike lLicona, he is using the bible to prove the bible, as all apologists do, this is called circular reasoning
Bart Ehrman began studying the Bible, Biblical theology and Biblical languages at Moody Bible Institute, where he earned the school's three-year diploma in 1976. He is a 1978 graduate of Wheaton College in Illinois, where he received his bachelor's degree. He received his Ph.D. (in 1985) and M.Div. from Princeton Theological Seminary, where he studied textual criticism of the Bible, development of the New Testament canon and New Testament apocrypha under Bruce Metzger. Both baccalaureate and doctorate were conferred magna cum laude.
I guess his credentials don't count because he is an atheist? 🤷♀️
@@jessica-vl9nw Just a minor point that I think is worth correcting. Bart Ehrman very specifically doesn't describe himself as an atheist. He describes himself as an agnostic. He's certainly a non-believer, but out of consideration to him I think it would be right to use his own terminology to describe himself. That doesn't mean your point isn't valid though.
Gotta love the vaporwave music at the beginning!
Vaporwave is so good!
If Jesus rose from the dead then he wasn't dead.
Death is supposed to be terminal.
This was more like a bad weekend.
Also how was it a sacrife
Wow, if the verbal gymnastics of Licona could be transferred into a physical performance, Simone Biles would be shamed.
lmfao licona ruined Dan in this debate. 37:09 was hilarious
It was a dumb debate. Is a fantastical story in a made up book real?And you can't use the fact that you're unconvinced as a defence but they can use the bibile for support.
A guy rose from the dead because someone said they did.
If thats the case then I superman flew to the moon because a book said I did.
Well if people truly saw you do it, and went to their death for it, and it actually happened then maybe its true, but that hasnt happened. The people who were there witnessed this as reported, you may not believe and thats your right.
@@ceceroxy2227 except the people that wrote the Bible weren't eye witnesses
@@nathanmckenzie904 if they were wpu;d ypu believe them
@@ceceroxy2227 don't know but probably not.
I say that not because I don't want to believe but because I have been to magic shows where i have seen
1. People sawed in half
2. People disappear
3. People fly
If I don't believe things I have seen with my own eyes there is little chance I'm going to believe a story that was passed down orally for generations and then written in a language that those who could have been couldn't possibly know says it did.
Would I accept a guy named Jesus was preaching about peace and love? Sure.
Would I believe he were crucified? Sure
Lots of people with lots of names isn't uncommon. The Roman's crucified a lot of people, so that isn't abnormal.
Now of you want me to believe that he was born to a virgin, walked on water died and came back from the dead, a story isn't going to convince me its true. People believing it happened isn't going to convince me its true. Am I open to being convinced? Absolutely but the evidence is going to have to be better than that.
@@nathanmckenzie904 do you accept alexander the great? we dont have any records of him until 200 years after his death.
Do you accept Socrates as being real? We have no records of him until after his death.
how about you stop cherry picking what your history is and keep the same standard across the board.
Which is more probable? Jesus rose from the dead (along with -- if you've read Matthew -- hordes of long dead Jewish saints); or subsequent followers of his original followers, inspired by reports of "visions" of Jesus after his death, "stretched" the Jesus story a bit to include "magical happenings" regarding him? The answer is obvious.
What's more likely naturally or under the countenance of the All powerful God?
@@drew2fast489 I wouldn't know. Would you? I would suspect that an all powerful "god" (whatever that is) which wished to communicate with its conscious creation would do so in a completely transparent and unambiguous manner. I'd also imagine -- unless that "god" were very evil and sadistic -- that it would have no interest in blood sacrifices of some of its creation, by others of its creation. Makes no sense.
@@GetMeThere1 That's a wonderful dodge.
@@drew2fast489 A "dodge?" What makes it a "dodge?"
@@GetMeThere1 You never answered my question.
My fellow Christians say that Jesus set them free... My higher power set me free when I studied our " inerrant Holy word of God". Deception upon deception. Their string of lies convinced me that the story was a fabrication. Truth really does bring freedom.
And I agree with everything you just said
Why is is so hard for Christians to believe that ancient people could make up stories?
Because people dont die willingly horrible deaths for made up stories
@@ceceroxy2227 people literally died for refusing to believe in the trinity and and what is the purpose of dying and coming back to life what exalty did he sacrifice Christianity is bullshit and has been proven false
Because there is life in those stories. I pray that you be saved in Jesus mighty name. Amen and amen 🙏
@@jamesrosano9439 Jesus is the way, i challenge you to ask him to open your eyes and save you!
@@user-fr4hs4qs3j There is significantly more death in those stories.
the basis for the resurrection is that it is an act of god, but god’s existence is NOT a fact is an assumption, that’s one of the problems with jesus resurrection
The existence of God IS a fact! Time, space, matter, energy…NONE of them have causal relations. They cannot bring themselves into exist. They exist because they came INTO existence at some point from some(One) outside of time, space, matter and energy.
@@christopherleewilliams33 the law of conservation of mass and energy says that they CANNOT be created or destroyed they only change from one form to another another, then there is no need for a creator, he/she/it can take the day off
Nothing can change from one form to another without FIRST existing. By definition, if anything exists, it came into existence at a point in time. Matter, energy and laws that conserve them, DO NOT have within themselves the ability to come into existence on their own.
@@christopherleewilliams33 according to that law matter and energy could be eternal, or at least energy, then matter could come from energy according to e= mc2
"I heard them talking but I couldn't hear what they were saying." That is not a contradiction. In no way could that be taken for a contradiction. I often hear people talking but can't hear what they're saying. Of course really it should be can't tell what they're saying, but it's a slightly incorrect use of language that's nevertheless universally understood. Now if you have a word that can mean hear and understand, understand as in appreciate the meaning of words or understand a language, then using that word twice to mean different things in the same passage would be rather foolish. Surely you would say they heard the voice, and later they understood not the words or something similar. In the example you give, everyone would understand the different meaning of 'hear' because of the context. The power was out, the microphones weren't working. You could hear the sound of the voices but they were too faint for you to make out the words. As I say if you were writing an account of a mysterious voice and said they heard the voice, and later they did not hear the voice, but actually meant they did not understand the words, that would be very sloppy. Religious writing of course is sloppy. It's ambiguous. The exact meaning of almost every passage in every holy book ever written has been debated ad infinitum. It's one of the reasons I don't believe. An all powerful god would write a book that everyone everywhere could understand without having to read a ton of other books first.
1:51:00 Inspiring Philosophy has explained where these ideas came from circa the 1800s by a writer named Alexander Hislop including attempts to correlate things like bunnies, eggs, Easter, and other traditional things with pagan usage. The reality is it's a weak association fallacy. Ex. Hard boiled eggs on Easter were due to not wanting a valuable food, like eggs, to spoil during Lent fasting and they were preserved better through hard boiling.
Decorating them was a tradition started by a long who was being kind.
I despair at people believing this stuff with no sufficient evidence.
I despair at you denying stuff irrespective of the evidence
James Neighbour, don't be in despair, it's the best thing ever. It has changed my life and is still changing it ❤️
I am not a Christian, but the reason they called it "faith" is precisely because they don't need evidence. Otherwise, it'd be called "certainty".
@@davidrodriguez4016 agreed, nevertheless the history of that institution is very horrble.
So according to Dan, if Jesus appears to us as a spirit, we shouldn't believe it, but if he appears in bodily form, then that's proof he did rise from the dead? As an atheist, how does someone having a spiritual visit from Jesus any less convincing of the supernatural than in him appearing bodily?
Because other people can't see it
It's personal experience, which can neither be reproduced nor shown to have ever happened, nor shown to even be _possible,_
AND there are other naturalistic and far more probable explanations for it (drugs, lucid dreams, hallucinations, and more).
Do you believe every story told by a patient at a psychiatric hospital?
Because it seems like you would. And if you don't, how do you differentiate made up stories from real stories?
1:18:00 in 2020 a book was released about JFK written by a person born in 1963 about JFK 's political life before his presidency
And what is your point? Professional historians write about the past: today they should have higher standards than the ignorant, credulous, superstitious peasants who circulated, conflated and improved on oral tradition. The gospels are more akin to QAnon fantasies than they are the 6 o’clock evening news with Walter Cronkite.
Cross examination at 48:05
"And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up-if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable." (1 Corinthians 15:14-19)
There's a guy in Australia who thinks he's Jesus. One of his followers was crying, because he says he was there watching his crucifiction. Should we believe him?
He isn't the biblical Jesus
@@truthbebold4009 *_Special pleading_*_ is an informal fallacy wherein one cites something as an exception to a general or universal principle, without justifying the special exception. It is the application of a double standard._
@@vejeke What part of my statement are you in disagreement with?
@@truthbebold4009 The part where you try to dodge a question by using an informal fallacy.
@@vejeke Get to know the real Jesus. Today's culture is a cesspool yet believes it has enough sense to talk about Jesus.
When Dan Barker start speaking was the beginning of the end for Licons 😏
Confirmation bias
@@drew2fast489 nah Mike literally has no idea what to Believe in the Bible isn’t the word of god it’s a book of hate
@@jamesrosano9439 You again with another tantrum.
@@jamesrosano9439 Stop replying to my comments unless you're going to say something with merit.
@@drew2fast489 ok sorry I thought maybe you saw underlings who proves this shit was invented and maybe you did some actual research but you still belief in talking snakes and humans coming from the side of others while needing to be saved from what the creator condemned you from to begin with but ok stay trapped in this mindset and remember life goes on outside the Bible
Dan Barker always destroys these apologists
it hurts to watch, god have mercy on this guy soul
It’s EMBARRASSING how AWFUL the sound for 99.99999999% of these debates are
66.44 both scenarios are unbelievable.
2:18:57 got me bursting...uffff..lolll
Greek philosophers would wear white robes. Togas. Etc. the gospels clothe the men in white robes lol. A writer of gospels 2000 years ago would have no idea of how to write angels wearing fabric we have now in the 21st century. These are writers using only data they have at their scholarship of the day. But a real omniscient god would know all past and present
Why are these guys referencing the opinions of others. Can they not read comprehensively and form their own opinions. It sounds like they are trying to make argument from authority which is a known fallacy.
Is it me.... Or does it seem these self appointed Christian zealots are "seathing" with explosive hate and anger under that fragile mask of love and compassion?
Over the last year, reading the Bible more thoroughly and listening to these apologists like Mike Have led to me becoming an atheist. I’m grateful for them
I believe the Bible is the single greatest source of atheism/agnosticism. There is so much that is not covered in church and needs ridiculous apologizing away. God is clearly petty, cruel, blood thirsty, and evil if the Bible is read at face value.
@@robertspence7766 None of you have any idea of what you're reading.
@@drew2fast489 IF God is perfect and all knowing, don't you think that the word of God would be clear to anyone that reads it? Read it literally and one cannot help but be atheist. Anyone that reads these bronze and iron age myths, fables, and fairy tales and believes god is great and kind and loving (and real) is operating solely on faith and not evidence before their very eyes.
@@robertspence7766 First, there's no IF to God's maximum greatness. The minute you question it, you're no longer debating God. To answer your question: NO. And I don't know why you keep trying to reason from a position you know nothing of. "If God is perfect and all knowing, then..." Then what? You can't draw a single conclusion as to what he would do because you've never been either. And all that "bronze age" garbage is just that. It means nothing. It's a childish, atheist ad hominem against ancient people, that's it. As though truth is "age" dependent.
@@drew2fast489 There is no point in debate with someone incapable or unwilling for the application of critical thinking. Faith is the belief in something absent of evidence. There is zero evidence whatsoever of a supernatural being.
Once again, IF God is all knowing and all powerful and all loving, the God would provide irrefutable evidence to the non believer. He doesn't, which means either he is not all loving, or not all knowing, or not all powerful or doesn't exist.
The difference between atheists and the believer is that an atheist can change their mind with evidence. Most believers cannot or will not. I was a believer once until I freed the shackles of close-minded blind faith.
By the way, I guarantee YOU are an atheist as well. You do not believe in all the other religions Gods. Thor, Zuess, Vishna, Santa Claus, etc. I simply do not believe in one more god than you do.
Good day to you.
my goodness... the info mike has is amazing!!!!
Confirmation bias
Believing is simply believing.
All begging the question but no evidence .
You forgot the word bullshit after amazing .
It's difficult to get a scholar to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.~ Upton Sinclair
Mike Licona got owned by Dan Barker.
What debate were you watching?
@@gabepearson6104 the one where Dan Barker dismantled a theist. Do it all the time, so does Dan.
@@reeseexplains8935 could you send me a link to that video?
@@reeseexplains8935 lmao, sure you do
I'll have to agree with you. All theists prove is how little read they are. I often wonder if they even read the Bible they claim manatees their lives. Especially males. Especially considering both god and Jesus both said any male whom has ever played with himself or thought of any woman at anytime other than his wife in lust and does not pluck out his eyes or chop off his hand will never ever heaven.
If they believed Jesus arose spiritually then when He appeared why did, they watch Him eat food? Here is the thing.... Jesus Christ is such a wonderful friend and He understood many would not believe and spoke of this much.... People that have never heard of Him will be granted EXTRA mercy.... People that do not want Him in their lives will get their wishes granted. People that have heard how He suffered for them and have been touched by His tremendous sacrifice will give Him their lives and trust Him no other... I would NEVER trust ANYONE more than Jesus Christ EVER!!!! I would NEVER follow ANYONE but Jesus Christ! EVER! Why? That is so easy to me..... because they were not beat into a bloody mess hanging on a cross out in the hot sun baking with flies in their wounds and spit all over their face in total agony.... Just.... To be my friend..... I love you JESUS! you are the BEST!!!! " I do not call you my servants, I call you my friends" so said Jesus in the bible.... God called us His FRIENDS!!!!
You are self-deluded.
Watched all of it 2:32:25
This mike Licona is so convinced his Christianity is the truth even though it makes no sense
Unless he is correct, which he is.
@@ceceroxy2227 you know this shit was all invented
@@jamesrosano9439 Well if it was invented, alot of very smart people truly wasted their lives, tell Gary Habermas he wrote an 800 page book on it I believe. So I guess you better hope youre correct.
@@ceceroxy2227 a lot of unintelligent people belief in this lie that’s why you guys can’t decide alongside yourself who or what this god is far more smarter people have written in tire novels about how Jesus never rose from the dead how Christians don’t follow Jesus how the New Testament is unreliable how Christians add their own spin into the Bible and divide themselves are all are too coward to admit they know this shit is a lie he’ll even Jews follow Jesus more than Christians and why is acts 8 37 left blank in the Bible
@@jamesrosano9439 OK then good luck bud
1:04:52 the audio dropping out is a good example of us hearing and also not hearing; Dan is refuted by a mere audio issue of how something can be both
It's not both at the same time, though. It's either/or, for any point in time. That's not a refutation whatsoever.
It must be so frustrating for apologists to try to prove and defend ancient legends written 2000 years ago. Bet they sometimes think: „Damn god could just show himself and shut the atheists up for good“
And god never does. What Americans can’t see is that the decline in religious belief is irreversible. Religious zealots are noisy and annoying in USA, but declining in numbers. Christianity in Western Europe has the cultural currency of folk dancing: no one takes it seriously.
Sir i think you just waste ur time to try explaning about jesus.but he did not rise from the death
My comments during this debate:
He said Paul edited his own epistles 😂😂
27:20 This guy is using ad hoc. It's so sad
28:30 this guy thinks the Bible is an entire legend 😂😂
34:25 😂😂😂
39:40 how is Paul editing his letters? 😂😂 OMG
Hey wtf his real name is Chris Cringle and he really existed and still does
So in this biased format the christian gets the best Opening spot? Going First. and Closing spot?:Going Last.
All the ATHEISTS SHOULD HAVE GOT UP AND WALKED OUT
Best theist debater I've seen yet. Still didn't win the argument, but darn it he did a good job, expect for one thing. This quoting of scholars and voicing their opinions as if somehow they are more valid than any other is fallacy. Anyone whom can read, read comprehensively, use logic, reason and analysis is qualified to have this debate. Stop with the argument from authority. It's fallacy and they should know it, just as everyone should know it.
Did mr. Barker ask why the perfect word of god needs apologists? Ive probably taken out of context or misinterpreted the term apoligists. I dont know.
The whole topic is futile anyway, the question should be " did jesus even exit?"
Dan doing a good job of not answering a question directly
For example?
We’ll he avoids the question about Paul’s conversion like the plague.
I mean an epileptic fit? 911 terrorists attacks? Really?
The man was a devout Jew, despised Christian’s and was on his way to persecute Christian’s, suddenly turns his life around, devotes his life to Christ, endures years of imprisonment and suffering, all because of an epileptic fit?
I struggle to find any logic behind that response, even if I were a naturalist.
@@kraezd1 All it takes is a religious experience, real or not, and a bad conscience.
I would agree, there are religious experiences, real or not in the world.
What does not make logical sense, and ask yourself the question, if you had a religious experience, and if it came to the point where you’re being imprisoned and beaten, would you not be asking yourself some serious questions about your belief?
Dan does a poor job addressing this, even avoiding the topic altogether. We also need to figure out how Paul’s story coincides with the people he once hated.
@@kraezd1 People die for false beliefs all the time, even today. Once a belief is established, it's not easily looked at with an objective perspective anymore. We don't decide what we believe - we either believe it, or not.
The moment Paul was convinced he saw Jesus, and that the stories around him made sense, he couldn't just go back and say 'wait a moment - am I actually justified in my belief?'.
We also have no idea if it actually happened this way or not, or if it is fabricated by Paul. However, even if it did, there are absolutely naturalistic explanations for it.
Maybe Dan just didn't prepare for this specific topic properly, and tried to go at it in a more general way.
"Yeah, but the book says...."
Get a different book
Good Book Report Bro. I can replace Jesus with Spock, Paul with Kirk, James with Bones and so on and so on . I can use the dialogue, we have an empty coffin tube, So Spock resurrected after MORE than 3 days. So Spock is God.
Can you imagine talking about magic so confidently that you don’t even wince at how ridiculous you sound
John 20:27 Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”…
This is a great example of the Bible commending people for believing something without evidence. That's not something that should be applauded in my opinion.
@@philb4462 💯
You still believe in this shit Christianity is a lie and makes no sense the stories all are different. From each other mark 16-9-20 never happened
the bible doesn't promote questioning or being open minded
Quote the bible to prove the bible. Sad!
I encourage all the atheists here to read NT wrights book on the resurrection where he analyzes all the Pauline passages thoroughly on the resurrection and mikes book does so as well where they show the history of the use of the words for resurrection. NT Wright makes a good point that if they lived in first century Judaism they would not say a resurrection happened if they meant spiritual
Or you could just read the New Testament itself and keep track of all the errors and contradictions. It's a nice old book with some interesting stories, mostly intended as metaphor. It is *not* the infallible word of God, and should not be taken as such.
@@thomaseliason8376 doesn’t even address my point lol.
I'll keep that in mind.
@@thomaseliason8376 as many historians note contradictions don’t entail we can’t use the accounts
Is English your second language ?
Not sufficient evidence. Saved you 2.5 hrs.
Why do Christian apologeticcs
You are right dr. Dan barker i m agreed with you.
Dr.dan barker i will tell you that there is no jesus.
Barker seems to be pretty generous in granting there were all these hallucinations, an empty tomb etc..I suppose you have to to have any sort of debate but as far as the empty tomb goes and a lot of those witnesses (the 500) the best and most probable explanation is that it's legend and none of it ever occurred. No need to come up with a swoon theory or wonder where the body went to when there was never an empty tomb to begin with. It's just a story like the miracles.
There are, BY FAR, more people who became believers through the unbiased study and reading of the Bible, than read and studied it, who have not.
Doesn't mean it's true
@@nathanmckenzie904
It's true to the one's that believe it to be true.
Look, truth is most important to the beholder.
When did we lose the natural reply of, "I disagree.' as much as the reply, "why do you disagree?"
Instead of personally attacking someone's Character?
Not that you do, but it is plainly being seen in today's culture.
@@thomassallas4451 truth is what best comports to reality. People are free to believe whatever they want but its not necessarily true. Some people believe the earth is flat, sure whatever, but its not true.
I don't speak for other people so I have no idea
Examining the Bible helped make me an atheist.
Yes Dan it was plausible that Paul also ingested hallucinogens and had a religious experience and it’s also plausible that he rode a UFO 🛸 around the galaxy before getting struck by lightning ⚡️ I mean the possibilities are endless with you Dan!!! Endless!!!
Anything but the possibility that He was a magical being who became a child of himself in human form after creating the universe...
Compare the miracles of the gospels to the miracles of QAnon: JFK Jr returning from the dead to be Trump’s VP. People believe that too. People believe Trump won an election, despite 61 failed court cases. They believe he built a wall. They believe he is a great businessman, a christian, a family man. Everyone of them has some high school education. The jesus cultists 2000 years ago were mostly illiterate peasants, credulous, ignorant, and superstitious.
I think a "religious experience" due to the consumption of hallucinogenic materials is pretty much well known, how you get from that to flying around with aliens is weird. Almost as weird as believing in magic and talking animals
Great job Mike and God bless.
Well, why god didn't revelate during the debate. So no more debates. God is supposed to be omnipotent not coward.
Resurrection is a repeated fairy tale. Prior religions : Dyonisos, Mithros also resurrected.
@@Chaturanger False. If you look, both came after Christ. Good try though!
@@lutherenjoyer9629 Study history of religions. Resurrection of Christ has been borrowed from some prior religions. Fairy tales.
@@Chaturanger I've done all the research, actually majoring in religious studies haha. I can tell you, that is a majorly false claim.
37:10 was a mic drop moment. Mike is awesome lol.
right? sheesh that was like a rap punchline
as an atheist I actually think it was a solid refutation of dans point tbh - but also it was his ONLY good point
dan Barker gets destroyed here, like always...
The TLDR of Licona's argument:
THIS guy said, and THIS guy said, and the😢THIS guy, and he sounds really sure.
God Bless us all Atheist 🥰
see, it aint that hard to accept logic is it?
Matthew 28:1-8, Mark 16:1-8 and Luke 24:1-12 tells us that an earthquake occurred as an angel of the Lord went down from heaven to roll away the stone that closed the tomb. They also tell us that some of the women who followed Christ went to His tomb and did not see Him there; instead they were told that Christ is alive just as He promised.
"He is not here, but is risen! Remember how He spoke to you when He was still in Galilee, saying, 'The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.'"" (Luke 24:6-7)
@@tdickensheets hey the stories never happened Christianity truly is a lie Christians don’t follow Jesus this shit is all a lie the book I’m reading proves Christians don’t follow Jesus he was invented and he hates gays and supports slavery
But they are inconsistent.
Many references to Corinthians 1:15...firstly, Paul contradicts ALL the gospels by saying Peter was the first to see the risen Jesus, not the women (remember the gospels themselves cannot agree which women). Why cant God get his story straight? Even more alarming is Pauls mention of an appearance to 500 people, and ALL of the gospels fail to mention this. The whole "well just cos they dont mention it doesnt mean it didnt happen" is bullshit. Had it happened, they would have mentioned it, period. Even more alarming, a man who has been publically executed appears to 500 people, some of whom would have surely seen him die...and this, surely the most remarkable event in the history of mankind, doesnt get back to any of the Jewish chroniclers who would have recorded it? What a load of nonsense.
Ok Mike Licona aced this! To God be the glory!!
What!? He looked like a fool!?
Man, and to think I used to be an atheist and a member of Barker's organization. For an anti-religious group they were as religious and cult like as it gets
atheism is not a religion
Now that's interesting. What evidence convinced you that there was a god after all?
Mabye it's the Irony that man is still attempting to create life and 'one up' The Most High. Yet, the more we find out about the complexity of life, the more we understand the elegance of the cell. All of life does not come from nothing. Something does not create everything. Our measures are repeatable because somebody designed our universe to be that way.
Some people in the comment section are going after Mike. Why are y'all mad at Mike? Mike is only speaking about what he believes. And so is the other guy.
No... The other guy is speaking what makes sense
1:20 Muslims believed what they were taught, and willingly died for it. You mean the Disciples made up a resurrection story and willingly died for their lies? You're a funny guy.
The Bible is incredibly weak as an attestation of accurate history.
You mean the Q’uran?
@@Nameless-pt6oj both books hate gays and oppress women so both
I love how theists use philosophy to help them prove they're correct. Why should you need anything else other than the Bible? That is the only book that Christians say was directly inspired by the diety they defend. Why use human philosophy to prove God when you have a so called book that was directly inspired by him? Because when you actually open that book and read it, you realize it's just as crazy as any other so called "holy book" from other religions littered with contradictions and blatant immorality by God himself! Yet we are supposed to believe Jesus rose from the dead in a physical body because a bunch of people said they saw him? Gtfoh
First of all, let me answer this quickly. NO!
Secondly, I'll explain why. Because the oldest known texts we have found end with the death of Jesus. That's it. The resurrection want added to the text until a hundred years later. The first mention of the resurrection of jesus was made by Paul in papyrus 46. Which is funny because that's part of a Greek handbook on magic. His resurrection isn't added to the new testament texts until middle 2nd century a d.
Also, this nonsense that the testimony of women wasn't really valid in that period, there are Roman court records were female slaves brought Roman masters to court for swearing at her. She won a years salary. Another brought her master to court because he did provide her with the best education he was capable of. She won as well. To claim Jewish women had no authority, maybe they should read their bible a bit more closely. For it was a woman who validated the entire bible to the king and too the people. Not just any woman but a woman they searched for and sought out. They named her which is interesting because a text was found dating to the beginning of the bronze age. This text is important because the 3 woman who wrote the story signed their name. It was witnessed by two men which is still valid in a court today It was basically the bible story. She even editorialized her own work and said they basically wrote it as a bedtime war story. It was enjoyed so much they took it on the road as a type of drug fueled orgy traveling theater. It was these women named in the bible who validated the bible as the word of God to the king. So if a women's word was so meaningless why was it women whom validated the bible? Why was it women whom Jesus and his wealthy highly educated disciples sought out to find their rebel band and protect them? Oh and while we are at it; let's stop pretending these people were poor and illiterate. First of all fisherman were amongst the wealthy upper class. The most sought after products in Rome and jerusalem at the time were olive oil from Spain, salt and fish garum. So let's stop pretending they were poor. According to Mary's lineage, Jesus was the great grandson of the rightful king of Jerusalem. The king herod overthrew. He was neither poor nor illiterate. She was so prized she was taken to the temple when she was born where she was educated in Jewish scripture and hebraic law. She trained there until her pregnancy. Also, let us not forget she was considered the immaculate conception. Not Jesus. She was the one raised within a Jewish temple by priests. Not Jesus. Let us also not forget it was wealthy widowed women whom Jesus selected to travel with them. Not the poor. Oh and the ancient world was very multi lingual. Not only could they read and write but they had to in many languages otherwise they wouldn't have been able to trade, rent a roof, travel, etc. Let us also consider that there is no reason to write books if no one can read them. Not only were texts recorded in Aramaic but in latin, sanskrit and Greek. Greek btw was the official written language of the aristocracy and government. Much like latin today. Most believe it is a dead language because we no longer speak ancient latin, but people like me use it everyday in our work. The official aristocracy languages why from Greek to Latin to French then English. By 2027 it'll most likely be Chinese. Stop saying women's voices were excluded and these people were poor illiterates. It's just not true at all. Hell, the original hebrew all powerfull creator god was a woman. Yhwh was merely one of 72 lesser Gods until the Hebrews lost the battle of 586bc. That's when they killed of the female God and blended all the 72 remaining lesser Gods into one God with 72 names.
First: Based on what evidence?
Second: You realize P46 did not appear in a vacuum? Serious textual criticism that tackles these manuscripts knows there is a line of transmission. And there is quotes from the earliest Apostolic fathers, with the likes of Polycarp, Ignatius and Clement and more who knew and learned from the apostles, strongly attested to Jesus' death and Resurrection.
Third: Your point utterly fails for one reason: you are looking at a Roman perspective. We are in a Jewish context which does not hold a high view of the testimony of women. And you're right, if they read their Bible they would know. But you seem very unfamiliar with the pharisees or any of the issues facing legalistic 1st century Judaism.
Fourth: I don't know what woman you're talking about, a name would help. Lastly, your knowledge of work ascribing them as wealthy and literate (I agree with the latter) fails to take into account how incredible difficult it was to accrue wealth in ancient Israel.You are monumentally confused or misrepresenting the facts of history. Your biggest is the largely ignored and misrepresentative idea Yahweh. The dating of Old Testament claims is going back further and further. Not just with the majority of archaeology favoring an Exodus happening than not (I direct you to Dr. David Falk's CZcams channel for more) but with findings like the Jerubbal inscription push the dating of the OT earlier and earlier than the defunct Babylonian Captivity myths.
42:45 Dan's been exposed as a phony for saying "We don't know how any of the apostles died except Judas." Almost all of them are on Google!
And you think the google search results about this are accurate based on what. I can't tell if you're joking or not.
Just because Google says something doesn't mean it's accurate.
@@TitenSxull If the sites are trustworthy, then yes Barker is wrong
@@linkbiff1054 Ok, good luck showing that some random website you googled has accurate historical information about the deaths of the apostles thousands of years ago.
My understanding is that the vast majority of those accounts are entirely legendary in nature. Mythology not history.
If you believe that kind of thing wait until I show you some web pages about the Earth being flat and our politicians being shapeshifters from the 8th dimension.
The book MisGoded by dr Laurence brown proves Jesus never died nor could he have died even if Jesus did die what exactly did he sacrifice the answer is nothing Jesus was Jesus and never started a new religion
Christ is truth! No matter how the wicked argue their points, truth is it takes much more to be an atheist! Dan Baker, you made an oath to the Lord, then you betray and forsook Him. He too will forsake you when that day of His judgement comes. Brother Mike, may God continue to bless you🙏
Stop embarrassing yourself.
"I have no good evidence but my god can beat you up" 😂😂😂
Yes for drugs adicts and crazy people
Yes he can beat you cause is a genocidal syco With a Big ego
Anyone with a neutral pov has to say that Mike destroyed Dan in this debate. KO!
Dan, how much greek have you studied?
2 years
So basis greek and some intermediate greek? Well I studied 5 years of greek (says Mike) and continued studying it for 20 years. And it's laughable how you understand greek.
No reply
L’icône could speak fluent Aramaic, it wouldn’t change the fact that he argues for the physically impossible based on the stories of largely illiterate, superstitious, credulous peasants who told, re told, and improved stories for decades before they were written down.
You are coping hard bro. You cannot confirm bible with the bible.. no facts or logic has been shown from the Mike's side besides yapping about fairytales.
Sounds like Dan has a problem with facts that don’t coincide with his disbelief! Eg; he asks how do we know that the apostles were martyred? Lacona gives overwhelming evidence and Dan goes quiet! Every time Dan talks it’s based on his ideas of human nature! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 who died and made Dan an expert on human nature? Dan wants plausible explanations which he ignores and ignores! That doesn’t make you smart Dan! 🤣
You sound like another desperate believer.
@@Resenbrink Yes 👍🏽 robby you get an A+ for your intelligence and your profound assessment!!! Good job 👏
Dan like most atheists doesnt want it to be true, he just went to other end of the spectrum. Dan hates the idea of God now, imagine this video is full of atheists commenting, strange when all atheism is is a lack of belief.
@@ceceroxy2227 Imagine living in a society highly influenced by the belief that there is an invisible magical being that wants things from us.
I was never indoctrinated in any religion and for me the god of the Christians is like any other, those in which you do not believe, just as absurd, childish and imaginary as they are.
@@vejeke you seem pretty obsessed with this magical being for some reason, even stranger you think this magical being is imaginary and spend your life watching videos talking about this magical being.
Dan Barker handled historicity poorly. Even Bart Ehrman would disappoint with him.
Not at all.
@@Chaturanger I’m agnostic but you have to agree Dan barkers arguments are very poor in terms of credibile scholarly arguments, probably because he’s not never been to university
Wabackagainman 0 🤔no he was correct, Bart Ehrman also points out these errors
@@Kratos40595 no he’s correct barker argued very poorly
@@gabepearson6104 well he was only reiterating Bart Erhman... and he definitely knows what he’s taking about
😂 Jesus’ corps was fed to the crows…
Liconas very well spoken and educated. Articulating his stance without arguing but with more persuasion.
He is shameless liar and a conman.