livingpianos.com/piano-history... / livingpianos Find out what the best piano brands are. Steinway, Walter, Mason Hamlin, which are the best of the best.
I've been rebuilding and restoring pianos in the US for 42 years and there are many great pianos in the world. It's about how they were made, the materials used, the period of time they were made and from what country. Every country has a different sound, and different approach to soundboard making, plate height, bridge height and angles, casting of the plate, hammer making, action geometry and voicing, let alone the material the rim and cabinet is made out of. You can find great pianos and bad pianos from the same company. There in no real right answer. I personally think a properly restored Mason & Hamlin with the new carbon composite WNG action and Ronsen made Weichart /Wurzen hammers is hard to beat. A new well aged white spruce soundboard with sugar pine ribs doesn't hurt either. This kind of piano can't be over-driven.
Hi Timothy. My dad was in the business for 45 yrs as both a rebuilder and tuner. I remember helping rebuild the players and gluing all the bellows and connecting hoses from the draw to the action as a little kid. Unfortunately he's no longer here but he left me three player baby grands with a tons of parts and over 1200-1500 piano rolls plus. My uncle Bob who was a machinist / parts maker was helping me by identifying the parts but sadly he to passed away. You may know my dad and more so my uncle Bob aka Robert Streicher i probably missed spelled his name. I forgot to mention I kinda miss the smell of the heated glue pots.
Thank you for your videos. I'm really enjoying them. I learned how different pianos were when my teacher while I was majoring in music at college said he had played every Steinway concert grand in 3 warehouses to choose the one I was taking lessons on. At the time, of course, I didn't probably understand that in much detail, though.
@urbano277 Depending upon the type of music being performed, each piano has its advantages. The clarity and delicacy of European pianos is wonderful for classical period music (Mozart and Haydn) particularly chamber music. Steinway is a great piano for concerto playing since it has the power to balance well with orchestra.
Great video and good explanations. I live in Paris and am currently testing pianos in order to buy a small grand. What is said in the video confirms what I discover from my own experience, from discussions with (good) salesmen and with my tuner whom I ask for advice. One could argue 2 points : - the handcrafted japanese pianos (Yamaha CF and S series, Shigeru Kawai) are of the same quality as European and US-made ; but the guy actually acknowledges it during his explanations ; - the east-european pianos are not in the same league as the German-Austrian-Italians - but this is confirmed in the presentation.
You are an amazing teacher and personality! We appreciate your content! Why couldn’t newer countries and people simply employ the same techniques and products as the age old experts?
Next, the L was redesigned and eventually all of the grand pianos employed design tweaks including the patented Acu-Just hitch pins which offer more sustained tone particularly in the high register. What sets the Baldwin L grand piano apart from Steinway and Mason & Hamlin is that there are very few Mason & Hamlin model AA pianos which are 6-foot 4-inch grands.
The opening claim that the US makes the best pianos is kind of silly. My opinion is that there is no "best", there is only your preference, and your budget.
I think Mr. Estrin has a fondness for the old American pianos and that's sort of etched in his memory. Sometimes people have a fondness for what they grew up with. He's a great presenter and all and a fine pianist, but I disagree with him when he gets into generalizing about "Asian" pianos. Asian pianos have a huge range in quality, Japanese have been making pianos the longest time, and some of the best are as good as any piano in the world, IMO. Also, some of the middle-priced ones being made in China are comparable to any American or European piano for the price. There are horrible Chinese pianos, decent ones, and absolutely wonderful ones.
Well, it depends how you look his statement: First of all, Steinway is american brand and he does not list Hamburg made Steinways in his Europe category so we must consider that he calculates Hamburg-made Steinways as a american brand products and Hamburg does make very good instruments for sure. And almost every other grand pianos are more or less based/copied from Steinway as it is the piano to where everything else is always compared.
@@benjaminsmith2287 I agree. He's projecting the old and sadly, ignorant, blanket assumptions about instrument branding. He's a man of his time, I guess.
@@dennisdeemii tbh in the last 10 years since this video has been made yamaha and kawai or even the asian pianos also have brought up their build quality.
absolutely adore Charles Walter pianos, so happy to hear them mentioned in the beginning, I played a new mahogany 6 footer or so at local Steinway Hall and was blown away, definitely on my wish list /bucket list instrument list. The Shigeru's (SK's) remain my no 1 absolute dream (though a particular fine example from Steingraeber , August Forster or a Faz might sway me, or a realy sweet Baldwin SF 10 either from final days the AR shop was making them or a restored vintage....) :)
Pleyel pianos are excellent examples of great European piano design. The pianos are very refined with a bright, clear tone. Like other European pianos like Bechstein and Bosendorfer, playing a Pleyel requires a sensitivity since they project tone with less effort than American pianos like Steinway and Mason & Hamlin. So as long as you don't have a heavy approach to the piano, these instruments can provide a high level playing experience.
A couple of years ago the PTG national convention featured my Living Piano: Journey Through Time: Historic Concert Experience. I have not been to one since then, but you never know!
The Yamaha CFX is the new king of the block in concert pianos around the world. Yamaha sells 11,000 pianos a year for a reason. Founded in 1887 and renowned around the world in both upright form and grand piano form. Thanks for your video and review.
I'm a piano tuner and rebuilder in WV. I absolutely agree with your video. Though it would have been nice to hear something about Baldwin. . . since you are seated at one! There are 2 Walter pianos, in my area, that i service. I'm very glad you mentioned them. They are wonderful pianos. It hurts me to see fantastic old piano names slapped on something that will never live up to the name.
The Baldwin Model L Artist Series Grand Piano has a rich history. For the most part the piano was manufactured to a very high standard throughout Baldwin's history.
Thank you Robert. Very educational video. Unless I missed a specific part, I did not hear you mention Stuart & Sons which is manufactured in Australia. Where do they rank in your opinion. Thank you kindly.
I love pianos and it was simply great to hear from someone so knowledgable about all the brands of piano. Some people will argue which piano brands are the best but we get this debate with practically every instrument. Anyway good job!
You seriously have a lot of knowledge inside that brain of yours. Thank you so much for telling me about different types of pianos. Picking the right piano is even more stressful than picking the right car (and might even cost more). Thank you.
Samick apparently bought Gulbransen in the 80s. We have an old Gulbransen upright that sounds like an old saloon piano! They were based in Chicago and you can find plenty of Ebay listings for them! I recommend them!
I visited a Charles R. Walter dealer and those instruments have amazing action and sound. Their consoles are also beautiful furniture. I personally prefer uprights/verticals because both my own and my parents' house are quite small, and at around $11-12k the Walters are affordable too.
My mother in law has a Shubert stand up piano that was made in New York. I am going to take pictures of it later but I am looking for any information on the brand and whether or not they are good pianos.
@TweakRacer If you follow my blogs, you will discover that indeed I am a big fan of many pianos. The fact is, Steinway is the best piano everyone has heard of. However, there are many companies that make pianos equal in quality to Steinway including Mason & Hamlin, Bechstein, Bosendorfer, Bluthner, Fazioli, Shigeru Kawai, and others.
HI! Mr Estrin, I saw you and subscribed you yesterday. I would like to hear your input about August Forster piano. If you can give me some advice that will be great and helpful for me choosing a piano. Thanks!
@TweakRacer Your observation that you can get more piano for your money if you give up the prestigious Steinway name is right on target. It comes down to personal preference. Other factors to consider are the period of time the piano was made.
Thanks for this informative piece. Your Piano sounds very sweet; no wonder you look so happy!! My Eric Johnson Stratocaster has the same effect on me. Does the cost of a hand made piano mean a lifetime of longing for a Pianist? Let's hope that everyone who loves them gets one chance to play such a wonderous thing at least once in a lifetime. PS Sincere thanks to your Dad for a lifetime of commitment to the art of sound. Alan.
Helpful! I recently had a chance to play the Model S6 of Yamaha, and it was MAGNIFICENT! By the way, can you tell me about special aspects of sounds of Fazioli, Bosendorfer and Bechstein concert grands? I have played Steinway Model D and Yamaha CFIIIS at the concert, but haven't played one of 3 brands I mentioned... I guess all of them are handmade, but I would feel pleasure to know the basic aspects of tones of Fazioli, Bosendorfer and Bechstein.
My grandfather has one of the last Australian made 'Beale' pianos in the world and I much prefer it to the American pianos I've tried. He's had it since 1973 and regularly tunes it and still sounds amazing and sounds different from the normal retail pianos. I think it depends on the brand.
Outstanding. I am a retired piano technician who has tuned and repaired over 25,000 times. I've had a Schimmel 6'4" grand since 1970 that has given me much pleasure. It is well constructed and certainly beats the majority of pianos I've tuned. It's like a thirsty man coming to water. If, I had to replace it, I would choose an older Steinway that had that certain touch and sound.
Check Schimmel! Amazing, plenty of awards. I've got one K 122 and it is just fabulous. Comparing best makes that I've had the pleasure to play, this is my list: Boesendorfer, Grotrian Steinweg, C. Bechestein, Schimmel, Steinway, Fazioli, Steingraeber, Bluthner, Shigeru Kawai, Yahama and Mason & Hamlin.
What does Steinway dominate in the number in most concert halls? Is it because Steinway dominates in music schools so musicians want to perform to a already familiar key action?
pliuworld Yes. Steinway has or had exclusive agreements in major Music Schools and also major Concert Halls. So musicians who can afford it buy Steinways because they want to practice on a piano action they are familiar with, but also because they are likely to hav eno alternative in concert. In addition, Steinway really are great pianos !
Pierre Moller I used to hold this opinion by recognizing a piano by its "brand name" (such as "Steinway really are great"). But I got very confused after running into so many ordinary Steinway pianos which are poorly voiced or maintained. They are everywhere in friends' houses, schools, or some local auditoriums. People always proudly presented their Steinway's to me and I played them with high expectation, and turned out to be very confusingly disappointed. I therefore started to developed a understanding to play and listen to each instrument not by their brand.
pliuworld I do agree that each piano is different, especially when it is pre-owned. And a badly tuned or maintained Steinway can be as bad as anything. I recently attended a charity concert in Paris' salle Wagram and the action of the Steinway failed during Beethoven's 5th concerto... Incidentally, I recently played a Steinway S from 1960 that was good, but did not appeal to me at all. Still, if the purpose is to compare brands rather than individual instruments, which is the topic of the post, I believe one has to rely on general opinions from artists, piano tuners and craftsmen. From what I heard over my 4 month quest, is that Steinway is always ranked at the top, but not alone. Last but least, the brand has an influence on resell price and some buyers like me take that into account since I probably will have to sell it when retiring in 15 years. I usually avoid testing pianos from top brands such as Steinway, Fazioli, Bösendorfer, Steingraeber and Bechstein, because I can't afford them when new, and they are grossly overpriced when pre-owned. Conversely, I do not waste time going and testing unknown brands pianos : I believe that even if I find a great instrument, it will be difficult or impossible to resell. Therefore, I focus my search on a few prestigious brands that I know to make great instruments when new and that are not overpriced when used, such as Yamaha (S series), Grotrian, Sauter, Blüthner, Schimmel, Seiler. In the US I would probably have included Kawai in my list, but there are very few on the second hand market in France.
Thank you for the intro. What about Perzina grands? A sales guy told me they are hand made and use European components, even though they are made in China. Is that true? He also mentioned things like "floating soundboard", wet sand cast iron, etc. Do these make a difference?
I hate you, Robert Estrin. You grew up in a musical household with pianos to play and practice... You are so lucky... The rest of us, like myself, never had that chance in life, but I am making up for it now and learning as much as you can teach me on CZcams... I am so thankful you decided to make your piano channel... Much love and respect...
Hello, I would like to buy a piano 1/4 and I hesitate between Essex, Petrof and Yamaha. This is for an advanced young pianist (9 years of practice). What would you recommande?
I am not going to be in the market for a proper acoustic piano for a long time, but this video was helpful. I am just starting out with a Yamaha P-105 digital, then maybe in a few years I can afford an upright. I wish I had started with piano at an earlier age. I started with guitar when I was 10, and now I find myself getting bored with it. Not because I'm a virtuoso or anything, but because I can't find the motivation to go further with it.
Well that was great ! Thank you ! I think a piano should be ready and at its best when new. Of course one can make changes in tone and adjustments along the way. And the tuning becomes more stable on a mature instrument. But the hammers are wearing away and getting shorter with use, etc. This sounds more to me like the difference between american and german Steinways for example, the first more economical and the latter simply better in all aspects. Don't you think so ?
@TweakRacer Nearly all piano companies have their up and down periods of production. Even the exact same brand and model of piano new in the store have different character since pianos are made of wood, leather, felt and other organic materials as well as the metal plate and strings. The right piano is the one you feel a connection to.
I just bought an older used Knabe piano, the pins are rusty, but it has wonderful sound. I thought later on of having the pins replaced. The tuner said it was only worrysome if the strings would break. The keys look like they have an "ivory" venneer, one key the veneer popped, so the tuner coming to repair it,, but it has great tone and sound. Is there any way to tell how old it is. It doesnt seem to have the plactic type keys that the newer pianos have. This Piano is Japanese? Thanks!
@@wiltzu81 You are rather young. i was lucky enough the spend two days at the Feurich factory in Gunzenhausen. A great loss when they shut down, but hundreds of their grands are still in first rate condition.
@@studentjohn35 world is full of piano makers that have existed in past and names have come alive again with chinese makers. I assumed that your original question referred to existing pianos made with names like Feurich and Grotrian and not with the produts that someone else made in past in Germany with same name. And my age have nothing to do with that matter. I have played hundreds of those pianos which original manufacturers do not exist anymore as markets in Europe atleast for second hand are full of those kind of pianos. For example we used to have here in Finland Hellas and Fazer, who made pianos. Both went oblivion like 20 years ago, but couple years ago Hellas popped back or tried that with the name installed to chinese mass produced piano. Mostly all these chinese pianos, nor matter what fancy old european name it has, come from one factory that is Pearl River just without Pearl River name. If you are willing to pay, chinese will make the piano even with your name and that what some european companies have done as survival solutions in avoiding costly production let say in Germany, so moving manufacturing to China. I would not be surprices to find in someday in future that there is chinese piano on market with name John Broadwood or Conrad Graf which is then advertised as a piano that Beethoven played. Even Steinway isn't as it used to be. They have cheaper model lines Boston and Essex. Both have highlighted note "Designed by Steinway", but one (Boston) is made by Kawai in Japan and in Indonesia and another (Essex) by Pearl River in China. The good question then is, that if Pearl Rivers own small grand cost like 10 000 and same piano with "Designed by Steinway" sticker has double price, is it then bargain/cheap Steinway or overpriced chinese piano?
My piano is Steinway & sons ebony parlor grand 6 foot 2 inches and my parents paid 68K for it years ago. I love my piano. Thank you Steinway for making such beautiful and clear sounding piano. To order brand new Steinway it has to be built by hand it takes one year to get your order. The company in NYC told me I would have to be patient if I want to get a concert grand D piano. Yikes!
HI there. Your apresentation was very cool on piano brands but I have a question to ask you. I didnt see pleyel pianos in this video. I hear people say they are realy good but I dont know if they are american or european and whats your opinion on the pleyel pianos brand. P.S: Wich one you think is better, a pleyel, a bosendorfer or a steinway? if possible post your favourite one type XD
I have a 3 thousand dollar Falcone upright at home but once I drove a long way to AZ Piano in Phoenix to play their 110 thousand dollar 9'2" Schimmel concert and I don't ever mean to toot my own horn but I pretty much wet myself when I played Chopin's nocturnes on that thing. I can only hope I'll get to play a Steinway and Sons someday.
Just curious...If you are actually playing a piano or present when someone else is playing, you can discern the quality differences; but if you listen to piano music in mp3 format over a blue tooth speaker, could you discern the tonal differences?
My pleasure. I think any well crafted piano can last a 100 years or more if well maintained. Knabe was for a period of time the piano of choice by the Metropolitan Opera - so yes you are right. The grands also had shorter lid props (on average) I believe just for that purpose. I've only had the privilege of playing smaller Knabe grands but I'm told the larger instruments purr ever so sweetly. I should think such an instrument would be ideal for the serious residential piano.
Bozendorfer has a heavier almost muffled tone depending on piece played. Yamahas are more traditional in jazz teios because have a briggtee sound across the tonal range. An older steinway model B from say 40s has exquisite tone. I have many experienced friends of mine play my 9 ft petrof and agree it has a beautiful sound throughout its range. Sometimes it's apples and oranges. Many factors involved..also a very personal taste in deciding which piano is right for you.
Bosendorfers and Yamahas vary. Some Bosendorfers, like the new VCs, are very clear in tone. Yamaha is used in many styles, including Classical. It's a myth Yamaha is an instrument for particular genres. Plus, they've changed their tone on the CF, CX series and the new SX and debrightened their other pianos. But I find Steinways just as popular in jazz as Yamahas are. And they're used in pop as well (Billy Joel for instance). I agree, it's personal in deciding which piano is right for anyone. I like 12 or so pianos from different makers and like the 7 to 7 1/2 foot range pianos best. Like the Steinway B, that's one of them. Though nothing beats the 9+ footers for bass and projection.
Agree with the comment about the Yamaha "S" series as I owned an S4 for several years. Very difficult to sell because some prospective buyers would use that "I could buy a Steinway for the price you're asking" line of thinking.
I see so many pianos of the upright variety, old pianos that are free on Facebook Marketplace. I see a lot of 100 year old grand pianos for under a thousand dollars. Are these just shot or is it because there’s just not a demand for pianos any more?
There are a handful of small shops that build specific instruments in very limited quantity. David Rubenstein in California being another and produces a custom 8' and 12'2" grand with 97 notes.
@urbano277 Pleyel piano company was founded in France at the end of the end of the 18th century. They currently produce several hundred pianos a year. Chopin played a Pleyel piano as did Debussy, Saint-Saëns, Ravel, de Falla and Stravinsky. The tone is typical of fine European pianos exhibiting a clear, focused sound which is more delicate than the American piano sound. The sound is much closer to Bösendorfer than to Steinway.
This is an excellent synopsis of the new piano market right now! For more details about all of the piano brands available (and who produces them), it's very helpful to consult Larry Fine's online site for The Piano Book Supplement updates. It also has price lists!
How do you define "best"? There are so many different characteristics relating to playing alone (i.e. not considering things such as serviceability, durability, build consistency etc), for example: action/responsiveness, tone, balance between the bass and high registers etc. And of course choosing is also very subjective: what kind of sound do you want? What style of music you play and so on...
Excellent video. I tend to go by touch in selection. I find the expensive American and European pianos have the best touch. I like the reliability of the Japanese pianos, but dislike the heavy action.
Yamaha CFX, CX-line have improved on those you mentioned. I love these on your list (Steinway B also) and love models from Grotrian, Bluthner, Hailun, (from China), Mason and Hamlin, old Baldwins, and maybe some others I've not discovered yet.
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i like how he plays the opening music to the 'show' on his own hahahahhaa
My favorite pianos are Fazioli, Steinway (Hamburg), and Shigeru Kawai, because of their exquisite sound and fine craftsmanship.
I've been rebuilding and restoring pianos in the US for 42 years and there are many great pianos in the world. It's about how they were made, the materials used, the period of time they were made and from what country. Every country has a different sound, and different approach to soundboard making, plate height, bridge height and angles, casting of the plate, hammer making, action geometry and voicing, let alone the material the rim and cabinet is made out of. You can find great pianos and bad pianos from the same company. There in no real right answer. I personally think a properly restored Mason & Hamlin with the new carbon composite WNG action and Ronsen made Weichart /Wurzen hammers is hard to beat. A new well aged white spruce soundboard with sugar pine ribs doesn't hurt either. This kind of piano can't be over-driven.
Hi Timothy. My dad was in the business for 45 yrs as both a rebuilder and tuner. I remember helping rebuild the players and gluing all the bellows and connecting hoses from the draw to the action as a little kid. Unfortunately he's no longer here but he left me three player baby grands with a tons of parts and over 1200-1500 piano rolls plus. My uncle Bob who was a machinist / parts maker was helping me by identifying the parts but sadly he to passed away. You may know my dad and more so my uncle Bob aka Robert Streicher i probably missed spelled his name. I forgot to mention I kinda miss the smell of the heated glue pots.
Wow! What do you think about Wurlitzer pianos? I am thinking of buying a used one for $200.
Thank you for your videos. I'm really enjoying them. I learned how different pianos were when my teacher while I was majoring in music at college said he had played every Steinway concert grand in 3 warehouses to choose the one I was taking lessons on. At the time, of course, I didn't probably understand that in much detail, though.
@urbano277 Depending upon the type of music being performed, each piano has its advantages. The clarity and delicacy of European pianos is wonderful for classical period music (Mozart and Haydn) particularly chamber music. Steinway is a great piano for concerto playing since it has the power to balance well with orchestra.
Great video and good explanations.
I live in Paris and am currently testing pianos in order to buy a small grand. What is said in the video confirms what I discover from my own experience, from discussions with (good) salesmen and with my tuner whom I ask for advice.
One could argue 2 points :
- the handcrafted japanese pianos (Yamaha CF and S series, Shigeru Kawai) are of the same quality as European and US-made ; but the guy actually acknowledges it during his explanations ;
- the east-european pianos are not in the same league as the German-Austrian-Italians - but this is confirmed in the presentation.
You are an amazing teacher and personality! We appreciate your content!
Why couldn’t newer countries and people simply employ the same techniques and products as the age old experts?
Thanks to take the time for all the info! really appreciate it :)
Next, the L was redesigned and eventually all of the grand pianos employed design tweaks including the patented Acu-Just hitch pins which offer more sustained tone particularly in the high register. What sets the Baldwin L grand piano apart from Steinway and Mason & Hamlin is that there are very few Mason & Hamlin model AA pianos which are 6-foot 4-inch grands.
This was very interesting and enjoyable. Thank you for a great presentation.
My favorite is Bösendorfer, but each piano is different, so try before you buy !
The opening claim that the US makes the best pianos is kind of silly. My opinion is that there is no "best", there is only your preference, and your budget.
I think Mr. Estrin has a fondness for the old American pianos and that's sort of etched in his memory. Sometimes people have a fondness for what they grew up with. He's a great presenter and all and a fine pianist, but I disagree with him when he gets into generalizing about "Asian" pianos. Asian pianos have a huge range in quality, Japanese have been making pianos the longest time, and some of the best are as good as any piano in the world, IMO. Also, some of the middle-priced ones being made in China are comparable to any American or European piano for the price. There are horrible Chinese pianos, decent ones, and absolutely wonderful ones.
@@benjaminsmith2287 Hailun makes great grands and uprights! I've played them before and they sound beautiful!
Well, it depends how you look his statement: First of all, Steinway is american brand and he does not list Hamburg made Steinways in his Europe category so we must consider that he calculates Hamburg-made Steinways as a american brand products and Hamburg does make very good instruments for sure. And almost every other grand pianos are more or less based/copied from Steinway as it is the piano to where everything else is always compared.
@@benjaminsmith2287 I agree. He's projecting the old and sadly, ignorant, blanket assumptions about instrument branding. He's a man of his time, I guess.
@@dennisdeemii tbh in the last 10 years since this video has been made yamaha and kawai or even the asian pianos also have brought up their build quality.
Thank You For The Information! ! ! So Many People Need To Know What You Know.
absolutely adore Charles Walter pianos, so happy to hear them mentioned in the beginning, I played a new mahogany 6 footer or so at local Steinway Hall and was blown away, definitely on my wish list /bucket list instrument list. The Shigeru's (SK's) remain my no 1 absolute dream (though a particular fine example from Steingraeber , August Forster or a Faz might sway me, or a realy sweet Baldwin SF 10 either from final days the AR shop was making them or a restored vintage....) :)
I agree! The Shigeru Kawai is stunning, I was lucky enough to play one in Japan a few years ago. And, Charles Walter are lovely, even the uprights.
@renatoaranha Grotrian is a great piano manufacturer. It is certainly top tier and simply an omission on my part. Thanks for the input!
Pleyel pianos are excellent examples of great European piano design. The pianos are very refined with a bright, clear tone. Like other European pianos like Bechstein and Bosendorfer, playing a Pleyel requires a sensitivity since they project tone with less effort than American pianos like Steinway and Mason & Hamlin. So as long as you don't have a heavy approach to the piano, these instruments can provide a high level playing experience.
A couple of years ago the PTG national convention featured my Living Piano: Journey Through Time: Historic Concert Experience. I have not been to one since then, but you never know!
The Yamaha CFX is the new king of the block in concert pianos around the world. Yamaha sells 11,000 pianos a year for a reason. Founded in 1887 and renowned around the world in both upright form and grand piano form. Thanks for your video and review.
Fantastic. Thank You
I'm a piano tuner and rebuilder in WV. I absolutely agree with your video. Though it would have been nice to hear something about Baldwin. . . since you are seated at one! There are 2 Walter pianos, in my area, that i service. I'm very glad you mentioned them. They are wonderful pianos. It hurts me to see fantastic old piano names slapped on something that will never live up to the name.
The Baldwin Model L Artist Series Grand Piano has a rich history. For the most part the piano was manufactured to a very high standard throughout Baldwin's history.
Thanks for this video.
Thank you Robert. Very educational video. Unless I missed a specific part, I did not hear you mention Stuart & Sons which is manufactured in Australia. Where do they rank in your opinion. Thank you kindly.
Very good information for piano´s, thank You.
I love pianos and it was simply great to hear from someone so knowledgable about all the brands of piano. Some people will argue which piano brands are the best but we get this debate with practically every instrument. Anyway good job!
You seriously have a lot of knowledge inside that brain of yours. Thank you so much for telling me about different types of pianos. Picking the right piano is even more stressful than picking the right car (and might even cost more). Thank you.
Happy I have a Petrof and a Weinbach pianos! They are great for studio.
The force is strong in this on. He even says Kenobi at 2:43.
thats because he is older luke
Samick apparently bought Gulbransen in the 80s. We have an old Gulbransen upright that sounds like an old saloon piano! They were based in Chicago and you can find plenty of Ebay listings for them! I recommend them!
I visited a Charles R. Walter dealer and those instruments have amazing action and sound. Their consoles are also beautiful furniture. I personally prefer uprights/verticals because both my own and my parents' house are quite small, and at around $11-12k the Walters are affordable too.
My mother in law has a Shubert stand up piano that was made in New York. I am going to take pictures of it later but I am looking for any information on the brand and whether or not they are good pianos.
Thank you, it's gorgeous
If you want to get an upright piano which is really nice and affordable, I would recommend Kawai K300 (I have one).
I like Yamaha, I have a G1 baby grand 1992.
Thanks for your uploadings, I love them.
@TweakRacer If you follow my blogs, you will discover that indeed I am a big fan of many pianos. The fact is, Steinway is the best piano everyone has heard of. However, there are many companies that make pianos equal in quality to Steinway including Mason & Hamlin, Bechstein, Bosendorfer, Bluthner, Fazioli, Shigeru Kawai, and others.
HI! Mr Estrin, I saw you and subscribed you yesterday. I would like to hear your input about August Forster piano. If you can give me some advice that will be great and helpful for me choosing a piano. Thanks!
very informative. thanks.
@TweakRacer Your observation that you can get more piano for your money if you give up the prestigious Steinway name is right on target. It comes down to personal preference. Other factors to consider are the period of time the piano was made.
Thanks for this informative piece. Your Piano sounds very sweet; no wonder you look so happy!! My Eric Johnson Stratocaster has the same effect on me. Does the cost of a hand made piano mean a lifetime of longing for a Pianist? Let's hope that everyone who loves them gets one chance to play such a wonderous thing at least once in a lifetime.
PS Sincere thanks to your Dad for a lifetime of commitment to the art of sound. Alan.
I think at the end each peace needs a certain sound of piano so it's totally subjective and there's no such thing as the ultimate piano
Helpful! I recently had a chance to play the Model S6 of Yamaha, and it was MAGNIFICENT! By the way, can you tell me about special aspects of sounds of Fazioli, Bosendorfer and Bechstein concert grands? I have played Steinway Model D and Yamaha CFIIIS at the concert, but haven't played one of 3 brands I mentioned... I guess all of them are handmade, but I would feel pleasure to know the basic aspects of tones of Fazioli, Bosendorfer and Bechstein.
My grandfather has one of the last Australian made 'Beale' pianos in the world and I much prefer it to the American pianos I've tried. He's had it since 1973 and regularly tunes it and still sounds amazing and sounds different from the normal retail pianos. I think it depends on the brand.
Baldwin SD-10 Concert Grand
Outstanding. I am a retired piano technician who has tuned and repaired over 25,000 times. I've had a Schimmel 6'4" grand since 1970 that has given me much pleasure. It is well constructed and certainly beats the majority of pianos I've tuned. It's like a thirsty man coming to water. If, I had to replace it, I would choose an older Steinway that had that certain touch and sound.
very informative....thanks.....
what do you think of Hobart M. Cable pianos? specifically ones from the 70' and 80's.
Check Schimmel! Amazing, plenty of awards. I've got one K 122 and it is just fabulous. Comparing best makes that I've had the pleasure to play, this is my list: Boesendorfer, Grotrian Steinweg, C. Bechestein, Schimmel, Steinway, Fazioli, Steingraeber, Bluthner, Shigeru Kawai, Yahama and Mason & Hamlin.
What does Steinway dominate in the number in most concert halls? Is it because Steinway dominates in music schools so musicians want to perform to a already familiar key action?
pliuworld
Yes. Steinway has or had exclusive agreements in major Music Schools and also major Concert Halls. So musicians who can afford it buy Steinways because they want to practice on a piano action they are familiar with, but also because they are likely to hav eno alternative in concert.
In addition, Steinway really are great pianos !
Pierre Moller
I used to hold this opinion by recognizing a piano by its "brand name" (such as "Steinway really are great"). But I got very confused after running into so many ordinary Steinway pianos which are poorly voiced or maintained. They are everywhere in friends' houses, schools, or some local auditoriums. People always proudly presented their Steinway's to me and I played them with high expectation, and turned out to be very confusingly disappointed. I therefore started to developed a understanding to play and listen to each instrument not by their brand.
pliuworld I do agree that each piano is different, especially when it is pre-owned. And a badly tuned or maintained Steinway can be as bad as anything. I recently attended a charity concert in Paris' salle Wagram and the action of the Steinway failed during Beethoven's 5th concerto...
Incidentally, I recently played a Steinway S from 1960 that was good, but did not appeal to me at all.
Still, if the purpose is to compare brands rather than individual instruments, which is the topic of the post, I believe one has to rely on general opinions from artists, piano tuners and craftsmen. From what I heard over my 4 month quest, is that Steinway is always ranked at the top, but not alone.
Last but least, the brand has an influence on resell price and some buyers like me take that into account since I probably will have to sell it when retiring in 15 years. I usually avoid testing pianos from top brands such as Steinway, Fazioli, Bösendorfer, Steingraeber and Bechstein, because I can't afford them when new, and they are grossly overpriced when pre-owned. Conversely, I do not waste time going and testing unknown brands pianos : I believe that even if I find a great instrument, it will be difficult or impossible to resell.
Therefore, I focus my search on a few prestigious brands that I know to make great instruments when new and that are not overpriced when used, such as Yamaha (S series), Grotrian, Sauter, Blüthner, Schimmel, Seiler. In the US I would probably have included Kawai in my list, but there are very few on the second hand market in France.
pliuworld Just simply because Steinway knows how to market their brand in American style.
It would be nice to do a video about the full range of those Charles Walter pianos, from small to grand.
Hello , would u advice the Yamaha u3 and Kawai us 6x???
Which one do u prefer more ??
my list: Steinway (NY or Hamburg), Fazioli, Petrof, Mason & Hamlin, August Förster
I definitely agree. I have played on Steinways that really suck, though generally, their tone is awesome.
yes young struggling pianist is a pretty good description for me :D
Thank you for the intro. What about Perzina grands? A sales guy told me they are hand made and use European components, even though they are made in China. Is that true?
He also mentioned things like "floating soundboard", wet sand cast iron, etc. Do these make a difference?
I hate you, Robert Estrin. You grew up in a musical household with pianos to play and practice... You are so lucky... The rest of us, like myself, never had that chance in life, but I am making up for it now and learning as much as you can teach me on CZcams... I am so thankful you decided to make your piano channel... Much love and respect...
I feel the same way...total envy. Music was about as popular as clog-dancing in my household. But he obviously understands how lucky he was.
Hello, I would like to buy a piano 1/4 and I hesitate between Essex, Petrof and Yamaha. This is for an advanced young pianist (9 years of practice). What would you recommande?
I have a Baldwin grand that I dearly love to play! You didn't mention that one.
I am not going to be in the market for a proper acoustic piano for a long time, but this video was helpful. I am just starting out with a Yamaha P-105 digital, then maybe in a few years I can afford an upright. I wish I had started with piano at an earlier age. I started with guitar when I was 10, and now I find myself getting bored with it. Not because I'm a virtuoso or anything, but because I can't find the motivation to go further with it.
My 1978 Studio upright Yamaha was built in Grand Haven Michigan at the old Everett factory after Yamaha bought it. (1973-1989)
Well that was great ! Thank you ! I think a piano should be ready and at its best when new. Of course one can make changes in tone and adjustments along the way. And the tuning becomes more stable on a mature instrument. But the hammers are wearing away and getting shorter with use, etc. This sounds more to me like the difference between american and german Steinways for example, the first more economical and the latter simply better in all aspects. Don't you think so ?
@TweakRacer Nearly all piano companies have their up and down periods of production. Even the exact same brand and model of piano new in the store have different character since pianos are made of wood, leather, felt and other organic materials as well as the metal plate and strings. The right piano is the one you feel a connection to.
The piece at the beginning is the 1st movement from Bach's Italian Concerto BWV971!
I just bought an older used Knabe piano, the pins are rusty, but it has wonderful sound. I thought later on of having the pins replaced. The tuner said it was only worrysome if the strings would break. The keys look like they have an "ivory" venneer, one key the veneer popped, so the tuner coming to repair it,, but it has great tone and sound. Is there any way to tell how old it is. It doesnt seem to have the plactic type keys that the newer pianos have. This Piano is Japanese? Thanks!
Very educational. I thought he would talk about quality of wood used but that seemed to have been skipped.
Also should include steingraeber Grand Pianos which make some fine pianos . Thank you so much for your informative videos .
Feurich and Grotrian don't even exist, then?
Feurich is just chinese made piano with german name.
studentjohn36 There’s a Grotrian-Steinweg piano.
@@wiltzu81 You are rather young. i was lucky enough the spend two days at the Feurich factory in Gunzenhausen. A great loss when they shut down, but hundreds of their grands are still in first rate condition.
@@studentjohn35 world is full of piano makers that have existed in past and names have come alive again with chinese makers. I assumed that your original question referred to existing pianos made with names like Feurich and Grotrian and not with the produts that someone else made in past in Germany with same name. And my age have nothing to do with that matter. I have played hundreds of those pianos which original manufacturers do not exist anymore as markets in Europe atleast for second hand are full of those kind of pianos. For example we used to have here in Finland Hellas and Fazer, who made pianos. Both went oblivion like 20 years ago, but couple years ago Hellas popped back or tried that with the name installed to chinese mass produced piano. Mostly all these chinese pianos, nor matter what fancy old european name it has, come from one factory that is Pearl River just without Pearl River name. If you are willing to pay, chinese will make the piano even with your name and that what some european companies have done as survival solutions in avoiding costly production let say in Germany, so moving manufacturing to China. I would not be surprices to find in someday in future that there is chinese piano on market with name John Broadwood or Conrad Graf which is then advertised as a piano that Beethoven played. Even Steinway isn't as it used to be. They have cheaper model lines Boston and Essex. Both have highlighted note "Designed by Steinway", but one (Boston) is made by Kawai in Japan and in Indonesia and another (Essex) by Pearl River in China. The good question then is, that if Pearl Rivers own small grand cost like 10 000 and same piano with "Designed by Steinway" sticker has double price, is it then bargain/cheap Steinway or overpriced chinese piano?
Have you ever played one of the new Yamaha CX series? Are they good value?
My piano is Steinway & sons ebony parlor grand 6 foot 2 inches and my parents paid 68K for it years ago. I love my piano. Thank you Steinway for making such beautiful and clear sounding piano. To order brand new Steinway it has to be built by hand it takes one year to get your order. The company in NYC told me I would have to be patient if I want to get a concert grand D piano. Yikes!
How do you get your pianos to the top of your ivory tower?
Good things are worth waiting for.
Hello, what can you say about Soviet pianos, by the way?
@LivingPianosVideos I'm thinking of buying a second hand Yamaha G3, what you think?
HI there. Your apresentation was very cool on piano brands but I have a question to ask you.
I didnt see pleyel pianos in this video. I hear people say they are realy good but I dont know if they are american or european and whats your opinion on the pleyel pianos brand.
P.S: Wich one you think is better, a pleyel, a bosendorfer or a steinway? if possible post your favourite one type XD
Both are really nice pianos... top of my list.
you have not mentioned Schimmel piano, also German brand I think,and a pretty good one too I heard.
Any reason?
Schimmels are just the best for chamber music
I love Schimmel as well!
Thank you
I have a baldwin and I love it!
I have a 3 thousand dollar Falcone upright at home but once I drove a long way to AZ Piano in Phoenix to play their 110 thousand dollar 9'2" Schimmel concert and I don't ever mean to toot my own horn but I pretty much wet myself when I played Chopin's nocturnes on that thing. I can only hope I'll get to play a Steinway and Sons someday.
Just curious...If you are actually playing a piano or present when someone else is playing, you can discern the quality differences; but if you listen to piano music in mp3 format over a blue tooth speaker, could you discern the tonal differences?
Steingraeber & Söhne Bayreuth Germany, perfection!
thank you
My pleasure. I think any well crafted piano can last a 100 years or more if well maintained. Knabe was for a period of time the piano of choice by the Metropolitan Opera - so yes you are right. The grands also had shorter lid props (on average) I believe just for that purpose. I've only had the privilege of playing smaller Knabe grands but I'm told the larger instruments purr ever so sweetly. I should think such an instrument would be ideal for the serious residential piano.
Bösendorfer and Yamaha 👌🙂
Ever heard of Büchta grand piano's ?
Bozendorfer has a heavier almost muffled tone depending on piece played. Yamahas are more traditional in jazz teios because have a briggtee sound across the tonal range. An older steinway model B from say 40s has exquisite tone. I have many experienced friends of mine play my 9 ft petrof and agree it has a beautiful sound throughout its range. Sometimes it's apples and oranges. Many factors involved..also a very personal taste in deciding which piano is right for you.
Bosendorfers and Yamahas vary. Some Bosendorfers, like the new VCs, are very clear in tone. Yamaha is used in many styles, including Classical. It's a myth Yamaha is an instrument for particular genres. Plus, they've changed their tone on the CF, CX series and the new SX and debrightened their other pianos. But I find Steinways just as popular in jazz as Yamahas are. And they're used in pop as well (Billy Joel for instance). I agree, it's personal in deciding which piano is right for anyone. I like 12 or so pianos from different makers and like the 7 to 7 1/2 foot range pianos best. Like the Steinway B, that's one of them. Though nothing beats the 9+ footers for bass and projection.
Agree with the comment about the Yamaha "S" series as I owned an S4 for several years. Very difficult to sell because some prospective buyers would use that "I could buy a Steinway for the price you're asking" line of thinking.
That is absolutely correct! Each instrument must be individually evaluated on its own merits.
I see so many pianos of the upright variety, old pianos that are free on Facebook Marketplace. I see a lot of 100 year old grand pianos for under a thousand dollars. Are these just shot or is it because there’s just not a demand for pianos any more?
Bosendorfer...Steinway.... Yamaha..... ;)
Yup! My Yamaha u3 will do me until I can afford a Bosendorfer! 🎶
Shigeru Kawai
@LivingPianosVideos What is your opinion on Charles Walter console uprights?
There are a handful of small shops that build specific instruments in very limited quantity. David Rubenstein in California being another and produces a custom 8' and 12'2" grand with 97 notes.
@urbano277 Pleyel piano company was founded in France at the end of the end of the 18th century. They currently produce several hundred pianos a year. Chopin played a Pleyel piano as did Debussy, Saint-Saëns, Ravel, de Falla and Stravinsky. The tone is typical of fine European pianos exhibiting a clear, focused sound which is more delicate than the American piano sound. The sound is much closer to Bösendorfer than to Steinway.
This is an excellent synopsis of the new piano market right now! For more details about all of the piano brands available (and who produces them), it's very helpful to consult Larry Fine's online site for The Piano Book Supplement updates. It also has price lists!
How do you define "best"? There are so many different characteristics relating to playing alone (i.e. not considering things such as serviceability, durability, build consistency etc), for example: action/responsiveness, tone, balance between the bass and high registers etc. And of course choosing is also very subjective: what kind of sound do you want? What style of music you play and so on...
My dad built Haddorf or Hedorff etc in Rockford Illinois....I s
Hello (: Is Schiedmayer a good piano brand?
Excellent video. I tend to go by touch in selection. I find the expensive American and European pianos have the best touch. I like the reliability of the Japanese pianos, but dislike the heavy action.
AFAIK, some Yamaha's are also made in Indonesia, like the old LU Series I own
Thank you , I am thinking of buying piano .
How would you compare Steinway vs Bosendorfer Grands? Is there much difference?
steinway Hamburg type D, bosendorfer, Yamaha CF, C7, C5, C3 , and shigeru kawai. love these brands... 😊😊
Yamaha CFX, CX-line have improved on those you mentioned. I love these on your list (Steinway B also) and love models from Grotrian, Bluthner, Hailun, (from China), Mason and Hamlin, old Baldwins, and maybe some others I've not discovered yet.
@willemvdr12 Baldwin SD-10 Concert Grand
Acujust Hitch pins were made to help the piano as the soundboard decrowns. check out the Permacrown on the new Yamaha CFX