@@alexbridenbaker9261Same here, I work in a warehouse and it really isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Of course I could just be in an exceptionally good warehouse but idk
A federal law is rarely ever the best answer. In your case though I assume you mean they need a law to prevent others from being abused by people like you who fail to understand how the existing laws work.
@@MoreBollocks-ui2zs a federal law would make things a lot clearer and prevent employers from as easily destroy the lives of their employees by denying or simply trying to deny PTO and maybe theyd finally say no to unlimited PTO which is the definition of a scam
VTO is unpaid. Managers put in VTO when the workload drops to cut hours. Employees claim it on a first come first served basis, sometimes midshift. My biggest issue with it from when I was working there is that it’s not offered very far in advance, so for people on third shift you’re not able to actually enjoy your day.
Its not paid time off or unpaid time off. Its voluntary for when theres more workers than work. Same as if a boss asking if you want to leave early, but you can apply online
Yeah vto is something in addition to the normal paid time off and unpaid tome off which is exactly what youre describing. Vto is a pretty cool thing that more companies should do, its just being ruined by a few people
Theres this magic spell that bypasses any business needs bs. I'm taking 2 weeks off for "mental health " reasons lol can't argue just gotta give folks the time off.
Considering they hold way more than you think you would infact be screwing a lot of normal people over. Good 3rd of the internet and businesses run on AWS.
I used to work in a cal center and I learned the VTO system patterns so well I could predict if VTO was coming before it was announced, about 30 seconds decision to announcement time. I hated my job so much at that time I got every single VTO that came up for my last 3 months. That was nearly every day. I transferred within the company to a better job.
Can you help me understand something? VTO is unpaid time off right? Like the only difference between taking a VTO day and just taking a day off when you have 0 PTO hours is that you don't get in trouble with VTO right?
@@georhodiumgeo9827Vto typically means the place has too many scheduled employees OR work load is slow/small so they let people go home/not come to work if they want because it saves the employer money for not having too many workers on payroll, it has no connect to the upt where you call in sick or w/e, that is limited per person
@@georhodiumgeo9827 kinda. We only got in trouble for 0 PTO time off if it was unapproved or last minute. Vto a companies way of saving money by not paying people that aren't needed so if it was slow as hell the system opened VTO.
@@georhodiumgeo9827vto is a free ride to stay at home with no penalty. You could take vto for a whole year if you were lucky enough to get it with no penalty. In fact, you get UPT for taking VTO on top of that.
I remember this same problem happening at my university back in 2004-2008. The university had a priority class registration system, where the more credits you already had, the earlier you could register for classes. The idea was to give those who were close to graduation the best chance of registering for the classes they needed to complete their degrees. What happened in practice was the classes that the upperclassmen needed to take were never full, so they would register for lower classes that were always full to save their freinds a spot. Then they would coordinate with their friend so they could drop the class and then have their friend quickly pick up the open spot. One entrepreneurial student saw this and found a business opportunity. They built a bot that would constantly check for openings in full classes and register students who had paid for the service in classes they wanted as soon as a spot opened up, thus killing the "freind dropping" shenanigans. The bot overloaded the registration servers so bad that it made it almost impossible to register for classes the normal way. What should have taken 10-20 minutes would take over 4 hours due to slow loading on the websites. The university eventually implemented their own waitlist software that all but killed the bot.
@@loganatori6117 You go to your manager, shift boss, whoever else in HR and tell them "i want so many paid off days on such and such dates", then you schedule who will come for you in those days. This is how it worked in my old company in Poland and it's a good system.
You dont understand the system, nor does the guy in the video. You have all your standard PTO that you just ask your manager for approval, like any other job. VTO is when amazon doesnt have enough work for everyone they have employed that day so they offer people to leave early/not come into work today for no pay, it's as if you were never scheduled to work in the first place. It's not forced on anybody, the only people who take it are people who are happy to accept less money in their weekly wage for an extra surprise day off
I work at amazon and I’ve always thought of bots taking the vto but never thought it was a thing. Also at least where I work they offer vto 90% of the time at the same times usually half hour to an hour on the dot after a shift ends so people who know this pick it up instantly.
VTO is normal at high-stress jobs like this - usually customer-facing or customer support. Its randomly given and given during work. I used to work for a similar big name company and had to use an autoclicker or ignore my job risk firing. Can only take so many screaming customers. Could get fired for hanging up on even irate customers. I did this for sanity and don't feel bad for using a clicker I made. This was almost a decade ago. I only made a simple thing, but people used more advanced bots at the time too. This was years and years ago, so yeah. Unfortunately nothing new.
i can teach you the pto glitch to test if it works where you work all you need is 5 minutes of pto and idealy enough attendance point wiggle room for your first try to make sure if it dosnt your fine
@@blackman875 its defenetly i thin in canada i thought it would exist everywhere with how damn innsistant hr is that my sick days can be taken as half days here even tho its only a whole day option because we share an app with america do you guys even ha e the 10 sick days there?
Lol, the bots aren't made by Amazon they are made by independent coders. And vto isn't something that you are entitled to unless you pick it up first. (Hence the first come, first serve basis) Did you even watch the video?
@@isaiahguillory4217So you don't think that it's dystopian ASF to give time off in such a weird lottery-esque way that bots are able to essentially help you cheat in real life?
I worked in an AMXL and sometimes I miss it. The work was easy, the pay was above average for a warehouse, the benefits were amazing and you got Paid time off, vacation time, unpaid time and sick time. VTO is just what they do when they have no work so they'd rather send people home. Oh and Paid time off is automatically accepted, Amazon cannot decline your paid time off. I left the warehouse game awhile back but in terms of time off and benefits it was a really good job. Not to mention I think they gave you like 20 hours of unpaid time off every month, so unless you're constantly calling it and out of paid time off, you'll always have unpaid time
do you have at least 5 minutes of pto and enough free attendance points to try a glitch in the system to get out of work early if it works you will actualy take no points it works at my amazon and theoretically it should work at all of them since we share that damned app
@@LyrosHazard perhaps this is there solutionnsince its been 18 months and they havent fixed it tho i havent heard this in canada amazons are you in one or america Oh but the glitch Use 5 minutes of pto than clock out at one of the physical stations within that period and the system gets confused and wont give you a point just dont make a habit of it and make sure management isnt out to get yah looking for a reason they can only catch you if a human notices
@@garvandragonunited states. Honestly bro I’ve been wondering if my job is even worth the toll it takes on my mental and physical health. I applied to be a game warden in my state. I’m just hoping before I leave I can get the cute Vietnamese girls number who seems kinda interested in me. Even though I will make less money as a game warden Its better than waking up every day and working in the soul crushing environment while being talked down to by PA’s and the managers who have the intelligence of a McDonalds cook.
No amazon is just the affects of capitalism. People are so brainwashed by the media they hate the modern day and are terrified of the future but will do anything and everything to avoid blaming capitalism and start calling it other things
@@proeramoka9168 Only if you're using the definition pushed by the States of Capitalism theory popularized by Werner Sombart, a fascist propagandist & member of the Nazi Party. But seeing as how that's not a valid definition, I don't see why anyone would think that capitalism's system of allowing the creators of wealth to keep the fruits of their own labor rather than having the State & those it entitles to extract wealth from the people, would be opposed to a benevolent anarchy.
Why would they do that if current setup gives them more money? Even if workers leave there will be always desperate ppl seeking job. The only way Amazon can change is through fines and governmental control.
@@TwiliPaladinthis is not what is described here. They get time off, this is voluntary "extra" time off. Do your ears even work or are they just there for aesthetics?
I would die working in a place like that. In my current work I can come to the office whenever I want, I can take a small nap whenever I want, go home whenever I want. At my workplace the only thing that matters is that the work is done and that I do, well even. In a workplace like Amazon the stress would just kill me.
As someone who worked as a driver, this is all true. Tried putting time off a YEAR in advance and couldn't do it because we'd be too busy. Im sorry you can't expect that market a year in advance, some holidays weren't as busy as they were usually so its not a constant trend.
Wow, imagine escaping the hell of working for amazon only to create something to make everyone still stuck there's lives even worse, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night
VTO is not vacation. Its voluntary time off which is given before or during shifts to cut down on hours if there is too many people. Vacation however is not capped.
To clear up the confusion: Amazon has several time off options, UPT, PTO, Vacation time, VTO, Bereavement leave, and sick leave. UPT is a limited balance meaning unpaid time off, if you go negative, you are fired within a week. You can use PTO to cover that time and refund UPT. PTO is just as it sounds, paid time off. It has a yearly cap, around 80 hours max with I believe is 60 hours max accrueal per year. It cannot go negative. VTO is voluntary, meaning you don't get paid for the moment you take it and clock out. Sometimes you can take a week-long VTO, rare albeit. Vacation time is accrued very slowly in comparison to UPT and PTO, but has to be approved when taking the time off. Sick leave can be tricky, sometimes they'll be a little hard to use. They'll refund UPT if a supplied doctors note is valid. Bereavement leave lets you take a few days off to mourne a deceased immediate family member. UPT, PTO, and Vacation time all accrue at different rates, have different caps. Amazon is one of the most fair companies in terms of time off policies.
And people wonder why everyone was annoyed when that worker the other day saved a persons life and got a pizza party and laptop. The next day they do shit like this. They don’t care, they just want the numbers to increase.
Amazon is actively combating Unionisation through propaganda and it's own management practices. It's a lot easier to unionise when employers don't yet recognise the threat, and pro-union agitators are able to speak with their colleagues and educate them beforehand. It's called 'inoculation.'
Standard time off options do still exist. This is thankfully only in addition, the botting is because not only does VTO not spend time off, it also gives you time off equivalent to the shift you would've worked if you didn't use VTO. I think a more dystopian part of this is sometimes they have VTO opportunities mid shift, and that's mostly up to low level management to hand out, which can obviously lead to a lot of favoritism.
@@nickwilliams2745 At least on the sorting center side of things I think it probably has something to do with order volume. If there's not a lot of orders or a truck that's inbound is late or something, why have everyone there if you can get the same amount of work done with fewer people? At least that's how I think of it. You are right that it's a weird system, but it's not obviously evil like some things I've heard about from other people on the internet.
I used to work for Amazon n it doesn’t matter how good of an employee or how long you’ve been there. If you’re even -1 unpaid time off you’ll immediately get fired.
That's not entirely true, I've seen people with -10 UPT and not get fired, I at one point had -5 UPT and was given a warning but still worked and after a few weeks my UPT built back up into positve.
Bro you get 50 minutes of PTO a day. You can no call no show every 12 days. How the fuck do yall run out of upt? Do you just not show up to work? Amazon pto system gives more leniency than any other job. Be 6 minutes late to Aldi 3 times in 3 months, you’re fired. No questions asked. They fired the GM at the one in my town from that. You can be 40 minutes late to Amazon every day and not have problems.
@@jacobjones1849 you get 24 pts of UPT if you are FT, if you are Flex it's different, there is no UPT, you have a total of 8 points, if you are late, you can hit docked a point, 2 for no show etc. I'm 60 days you can earn those points back, and as far as PTO is concerned it differs from place to place, where I work now, at an Amazon locker stite, sure, I can use PTO if I have it, but my manager requests I leave a message first, otherwise disciplinary action.
Hi former amazon worker here who quiting tomorrow at time of writing. It didn't help that there be rarely a warning that we be getting VTO and when we wanna check we get in trouble for being on our phones.
VTO is only dished out when demand for warehouse is low, Amazon has UPT (unpaid time off) that builds up every day, PTO (paid time off) which build very week and Vacation that builds every week. VTO is effectively a cut list. I have worked in warehouses for Amazon for the past 4 years, it’s not bad, it just sounds like it because it’s different than other jobs. And calling UPT a finite number is technically true, but I had 80 hours of UPT at one point very early in my time at Amazon. As long as you show up for 90% of your work days you will typically will be fine. You have to try to be fired from most FCs
As a federal government employee, I watched this 4 times and it only made my head hurt worse. We get 4/6/8 hrs of paid leave/pay period (depending on length of service) & 4hrs of sick leave. We also can accumulate up to 140-ish hrs of leave without pay & in emergency situations can use up to 240hrs of advanced sick leave that we either have to pay or earn back. Plus, we get about a dozen paid federal holidays. We also have a leave donation program for if a colleague gets sick we can transfer some of our unused leave to them. Oh, and many agencies are unionized.
Can confirm, My wife and i cannot claim VTO via the app, however managers can give out VTO on site if they are allowed, meaning you can still get it if you show up for a few hours, usually. Doesnt help they recently updated the app so its loading screens are worse, making it harder to claim VTO or extra shifts.
When I worked at TUS1, it wasn't VTO, it was being VTold to go home. Either you'd take the "voluntary" time off, or you'd get shoved into a position you weren't trained to do that had rate and held top the same standard as the usual worker. We learned pretty fast that you either took the hot or your risk getting fired for not making rate in an area you didn't typically work in and didn't have the experience or training for. It was an absolute shitshow and I'm delighted to have gotten out.
Sounds a hell of a lot like Comcast when I used to work there. Shop around, folks, there's always a company that'll treat you better if you have the skills they need
I believe the purpose of vto on the company side is for staffing and costs. They could set up the app to let employees issue vto to each other. For example, Person A wants to take Friday off, and Person B wants to work that same Friday. Person A issues a VTO request, Person B sees the request as VET, Voluntary EXTRA Time, and accepts. As far as regular Vto....issue it from the building manually🤷🏽♂️
@SuperZac234 They do have Shift Swap, but it's not with other associates. For example, if you need Friday off but are willing to work Saturday, you can put in a request to swap those days. You'd still be working the same number of days, just in a slightly different order. My idea was to get an extra day off if someone else wanted to take your spot.
UPT isn't really finite, as we accumulate it over time as we work, and there's no limit to how much we can get each year, only a limit to how much we can have store up at once. I'm pretty sure it's 80 hours for most employees, and at least at my facility, we get 1 minute of UPT per 12 minutes worked (5 minutes per hour), which means that it actually builds up pretty fast. Even outside of that we also get PTO and Vacation, which are both paid, and we have Leave of Absence options for anytime we need to take expended periods of time off, and they don't use up any of our other time off options.
VTO occurrence varies greatly from warehouse to warehouse, to time of year, and how many employees called off. The warehouse across from the FC i worked at got it all the time. Mine had varied from having it everyday, multiple times a day, throughout a week, to 3 and half months of no VTO available. But one thing that wasn't mentioned that at a lot of facilities, if you claim VTO too much, they'll bump you down the line
Im a Amazon hub and deliver packages every SINGLE day. I get 4 days off a year, New year, 4th of July, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Im not joking either. But .... And its a expensive but ..... I make on average 38 a hour. Thats a average. Around Christmas it can reach 50.
My job's VTO is nowhere near as ruthless, but if you run out you either can't miss work or have to buy more VTO. I still can't believe they make you pay them to have time off.
We did something similar with the flex program. We made little bots that you could put your phone on and it would tap the screen for you in the correct way to get you work for the day as you slept in till your shift. If you didn't know, they dropped the work at like 6 or earlier in the morning, so you'd have to wake up all super early and sit there and tap your screen for a chance to work. The bot did it for you. Go in at 9 of later depending on what job it caught for you
Another thing they do is not put it through the app for employees to accept but instead have a manager announce it and put the time in manually. Problem with this is they ask the friends and favorite people first, then offer it to lower performers so they can maintain minimum expected daily numbers while still giving vto to keep cost down.
Amazon worker get an hour of unpaid time off of every 12 they work, a set amount of PTO, Vacation. AND the option of Personal Leave of absence for vacations. VTO has nothing to do with off time. 🤷🏼♀️
I just read an article about beezos. His mistress with whom he became engaged last year, said he was someone with a great sense of humor, and likes to spread joy to people. He likes people to be joyous. She is flat out gas lighting the public. I'm thinking he sold his conscience somewhere along the way. The working conditions in the warehouses is just absolutely cruel.
I used to work for Amazon. I left & got a good career. I remember one day, at my new job, we were slow, and my boss told me to take a lunch hour. An HOUR. It blew my mind. I literally cried and called my wife.
LMAO Amazon rarely runs out of VTO. Only time VTO is never served is during peaks, which are typically summer, thanksgiving and christmas. I'd guess that at least 96% of Amazon employees do not know how to use github-hosted bots to autoclaim VTO. I've worked at Amazon several times, I am a software engineer who's worked in the warehouse doing hard physical labor, and very few of the RME team can even comprehend software development.
My work has VTO but we never know when or how much and instead of first come first serve they pick random people. We also "aren't allowed" unpaid time off now and can only use PTO which we get 40hrs of a year and it has to he approved 3+ weeks out
This has been going on for a while, I worked at Amazon in 2019 and I could almost never get VTO. At the beginning you could see who accepted on the boards by our stations, but I made friends with security and most of the time the people who accepted it hadn't even entered the parking lot.
VTO was rarely a full day in my experience. It would be a last minute sort of thing to save the company money. They also give you something like 40hrs of UPT per quarter. When i left amazon, i still had something like 100hrs of UPT left. There is also PTO and Vacation time that also accumulate. They are all separate and the system is actually pretty awesome.
When I worked for the state I had to put in leave requests 90 days in advance, and I was lucky if I was told if it was accepted within 90 days. Half the time it was accepted I didn't find out until my name wasn't called in turnout. Even then, that was extremely rare. I had to sick the union on them.
Ahhh I remember my old job. The place used an automated system to approve 8 hours off. I worked 12 hour shifts and had to book the 12 hours and then ask to get it approved. But if you put in 8 hours for the same day well it declined me the time off and auto approved yours. I was later let go for not working to pace after being burnt out with 50 hours of holiday still available (they'd failed to tell me it the previous year so it roled over) and my regular holiday still not used.
When I worked at Amazon and vto got announced you had to pray that that scanner didn’t take too long to load, cause those spits would fill in two seconds flat
they also like to approve days off, then reschedule you for the same day a few hours before the shift starts (they'd usually do it around 4am), doesn't matter whether you got it approved two days prior or a month in advance this isn't an accident either, both unapproved and approved days off are marked very clearly on the calendar
I worked at Amazon a couple years back for such a short amount of time i don’t even put it on my resume. It was by far the worst job experience of my life
when I worked for amazon, they would sometimes come up to you in the middle of a shift and ask if you want to go home. if you said yes, they would tell you to finish up and accept it in the app before you clock out. it was really weird, I thought I did something wrong the first time they asked.
We have that were I work but VTO is offered when business is slow and there is not enough work to support the amount of hours you have in the building. So if you are offered VTO you can use personal time or vacation time to cover the shift and your check won't be short. This is also a sneaky way to get you to burn up all your time so you have to stay or if you leave you don't get paid.
At this point, Amazon has to have set a target of making life more miserable for its employees every day.
I love Cyberpunk.
@@omeganichtdieuhrsondernder6906 it's actually insane how much this game predicted
@@alexbridenbaker9261 Did you work in a warehouse or other position?
@@alexbridenbaker9261 yea warehouse jobs are easy at amazon
@@alexbridenbaker9261Same here, I work in a warehouse and it really isn't as bad as some make it out to be. Of course I could just be in an exceptionally good warehouse but idk
This is why the US needs federal PTO laws.
Amazon workers get PTO. VTO is so you do not have to use your time off.
A federal law is rarely ever the best answer. In your case though I assume you mean they need a law to prevent others from being abused by people like you who fail to understand how the existing laws work.
@@MoreBollocks-ui2zs a federal law would make things a lot clearer and prevent employers from as easily destroy the lives of their employees by denying or simply trying to deny PTO and maybe theyd finally say no to unlimited PTO which is the definition of a scam
@@josetorres4932then whats even the point of PTO??
@@MoreBollocks-ui2zsbullshit. If it wasn’t for federal laws workers would have nothing and monopolies would domaine the market.
Amazon needs a lawsuit and broken up like Apple
And Google.. and CZcams...
@@mcouture8169 Google owns CZcams
@@mcouture8169youtube cant really be broken up like those other companies can
@@mcouture8169don’t forget Microsoft and Sony those douchebags have been ruining gaming for years
No. America just needs employee rights.
I never though the “black market” and “paied time off” would ever be in the same sentence.
I actually made a bet with God that I’d get a nickel every time this phrase is said, so I’m gonna watch the video 762 times today.
VTO is unpaid. Managers put in VTO when the workload drops to cut hours. Employees claim it on a first come first served basis, sometimes midshift. My biggest issue with it from when I was working there is that it’s not offered very far in advance, so for people on third shift you’re not able to actually enjoy your day.
Its not paid time off or unpaid time off. Its voluntary for when theres more workers than work. Same as if a boss asking if you want to leave early, but you can apply online
@@lmao9692 38 dollars is an odd amount to want ngl
It isn’t
This is more dystopian than Orwell's 1984
I think if we described modern society to Orwell he would call it unbelievable
1984 was version 1.0!
Because 1984 is a pretty shit representation of dystopia and totalitarianism.
It’s like this applying for jobs where I live as well people just spam companies with bot generated resumes, so basically good luck.
This is literally 1984
So wild in the UK, in most jobs you just mark on a calendar and employers usually accept unless it's a busy time
Yeah vto is something in addition to the normal paid time off and unpaid tome off which is exactly what youre describing. Vto is a pretty cool thing that more companies should do, its just being ruined by a few people
"unless it's a busy time" sounds like there could be room for exploitation
Exactly how it is in the US
Yeah, that "unless it's a busy time" part is absolutely getting abused eventually.
Theres this magic spell that bypasses any business needs bs. I'm taking 2 weeks off for "mental health " reasons lol can't argue just gotta give folks the time off.
>Go to the servers
>Destroy every single frame
>You save the world
Considering they hold way more than you think you would infact be screwing a lot of normal people over. Good 3rd of the internet and businesses run on AWS.
Black market: shows github
Dead
Yes. The black market isn't a physical place or website. It's a product or service with suspect or illegal origins, or customers.
If you google the title of programming books, you'll probably find a PDF copy on GH 👀
What did you think the black market was? Some shady ally somewhere?
L
it was clearly metaphorical lol
I used to work in a cal center and I learned the VTO system patterns so well I could predict if VTO was coming before it was announced, about 30 seconds decision to announcement time. I hated my job so much at that time I got every single VTO that came up for my last 3 months. That was nearly every day. I transferred within the company to a better job.
Can you help me understand something?
VTO is unpaid time off right? Like the only difference between taking a VTO day and just taking a day off when you have 0 PTO hours is that you don't get in trouble with VTO right?
@@georhodiumgeo9827Vto typically means the place has too many scheduled employees OR work load is slow/small so they let people go home/not come to work if they want because it saves the employer money for not having too many workers on payroll, it has no connect to the upt where you call in sick or w/e, that is limited per person
@@georhodiumgeo9827 kinda. We only got in trouble for 0 PTO time off if it was unapproved or last minute. Vto a companies way of saving money by not paying people that aren't needed so if it was slow as hell the system opened VTO.
Yeah, I remember VTO from the call center jobs I worked at too. Aside from the A/C, it's every bit as bad as an Amazon warehouse job.
@@georhodiumgeo9827vto is a free ride to stay at home with no penalty. You could take vto for a whole year if you were lucky enough to get it with no penalty. In fact, you get UPT for taking VTO on top of that.
I remember this same problem happening at my university back in 2004-2008. The university had a priority class registration system, where the more credits you already had, the earlier you could register for classes. The idea was to give those who were close to graduation the best chance of registering for the classes they needed to complete their degrees. What happened in practice was the classes that the upperclassmen needed to take were never full, so they would register for lower classes that were always full to save their freinds a spot. Then they would coordinate with their friend so they could drop the class and then have their friend quickly pick up the open spot.
One entrepreneurial student saw this and found a business opportunity. They built a bot that would constantly check for openings in full classes and register students who had paid for the service in classes they wanted as soon as a spot opened up, thus killing the "freind dropping" shenanigans.
The bot overloaded the registration servers so bad that it made it almost impossible to register for classes the normal way. What should have taken 10-20 minutes would take over 4 hours due to slow loading on the websites.
The university eventually implemented their own waitlist software that all but killed the bot.
once I had to ask via facebook why the link didn't work for the inscriptions 🤣
Interesting
I made a similar bot to book spots in class and a few of my friends used it. Never overloaded the servers though
we made similar bot for class attendance at the early covid years. not for skipping class, but because a lot of student simply forgot to sign in
@@ilyasofficial1617 same
[This comment was edited due to the fact that I didn't fully think before posting previously. Long story short, screw Bezos]
Bezos isn't in charge anymore
@@Zeivusgaming
This gives off Bezos vibes tho
@@Zeivusgaming correction “publicly” in charge. Who knows what he does behind the strings lol
Ok but how else is it supposed to work?
@@loganatori6117 You go to your manager, shift boss, whoever else in HR and tell them "i want so many paid off days on such and such dates", then you schedule who will come for you in those days. This is how it worked in my old company in Poland and it's a good system.
Meanwhile Bezos has a yacht that's literally as expensive as a new hospital. This is unreal.
I know you mean a specific yacht but...
Just ONE?
Bezoes isnt even the ceo anymore goofy
@@gamermike6586
still majority share holder = still incharge
It’s actually a pretty generous system. My work forces me to use pto no matter what
You dont understand the system, nor does the guy in the video. You have all your standard PTO that you just ask your manager for approval, like any other job. VTO is when amazon doesnt have enough work for everyone they have employed that day so they offer people to leave early/not come into work today for no pay, it's as if you were never scheduled to work in the first place. It's not forced on anybody, the only people who take it are people who are happy to accept less money in their weekly wage for an extra surprise day off
I work at amazon and I’ve always thought of bots taking the vto but never thought it was a thing. Also at least where I work they offer vto 90% of the time at the same times usually half hour to an hour on the dot after a shift ends so people who know this pick it up instantly.
Call center agents having first come first serve days off based on performance: "first time?"
VTO is normal at high-stress jobs like this - usually customer-facing or customer support. Its randomly given and given during work. I used to work for a similar big name company and had to use an autoclicker or ignore my job risk firing. Can only take so many screaming customers. Could get fired for hanging up on even irate customers. I did this for sanity and don't feel bad for using a clicker I made. This was almost a decade ago. I only made a simple thing, but people used more advanced bots at the time too. This was years and years ago, so yeah. Unfortunately nothing new.
I work for Amazon & this is the first I’m hearing of this, but ngl makes sense VTO gets claimed *ASAP*
i can teach you the pto glitch to test if it works where you work all you need is 5 minutes of pto and idealy enough attendance point wiggle room for your first try to make sure if it dosnt your fine
@@garvandragon is the point system still a thing in other states cause they got rid of it in Florida
@@blackman875 its defenetly i thin in canada i thought it would exist everywhere with how damn innsistant hr is that my sick days can be taken as half days here even tho its only a whole day option because we share an app with america do you guys even ha e the 10 sick days there?
@@blackman875on flex, yeah, you can not pick up any shifts during a week and only get 1 point.
@@blackman875 It's not a thing in Ohio either. We just have UPT, and it's been that way at least since 2019.
Bezos is watching Black Mirror like “hmmm…. Good idea….”
What the hell? This shits becoming so dystopian, you gotta _pay_ your company to get time off that you're _supposed_ to have anyways?
Lol, the bots aren't made by Amazon they are made by independent coders. And vto isn't something that you are entitled to unless you pick it up first. (Hence the first come, first serve basis)
Did you even watch the video?
@@isaiahguillory4217So you don't think that it's dystopian ASF to give time off in such a weird lottery-esque way that bots are able to essentially help you cheat in real life?
Try watching the video kiddo, then being outraged. Lol
I mean. we dont have any better than capitalism am i right.
VTO- VOLUNTARY time off
Seeing that first image with Amazon "VTO" gave me flashbacks. Never do Warehouse work for Amazon, it is utter hell
Conversely, I work in a sort center and it's actually pretty decent.
I worked in an AMXL and sometimes I miss it. The work was easy, the pay was above average for a warehouse, the benefits were amazing and you got Paid time off, vacation time, unpaid time and sick time. VTO is just what they do when they have no work so they'd rather send people home. Oh and Paid time off is automatically accepted, Amazon cannot decline your paid time off. I left the warehouse game awhile back but in terms of time off and benefits it was a really good job. Not to mention I think they gave you like 20 hours of unpaid time off every month, so unless you're constantly calling it and out of paid time off, you'll always have unpaid time
Its ez as shit
Definitely not watching this in the ship dock bathroom while trying to decide whether or not my job is worth it anymore
do you have at least 5 minutes of pto and enough free attendance points to try a glitch in the system to get out of work early if it works you will actualy take no points it works at my amazon and theoretically it should work at all of them since we share that damned app
@@garvandragoni got 3 hours and theyre gonna stop giving them soon (or so i heard) im cooked bro
@@LyrosHazard perhaps this is there solutionnsince its been 18 months and they havent fixed it tho i havent heard this in canada amazons are you in one or america
Oh but the glitch
Use 5 minutes of pto than clock out at one of the physical stations within that period and the system gets confused and wont give you a point just dont make a habit of it and make sure management isnt out to get yah looking for a reason they can only catch you if a human notices
@@garvandragonunited states. Honestly bro I’ve been wondering if my job is even worth the toll it takes on my mental and physical health. I applied to be a game warden in my state. I’m just hoping before I leave I can get the cute Vietnamese girls number who seems kinda interested in me. Even though I will make less money as a game warden Its better than waking up every day and working in the soul crushing environment while being talked down to by PA’s and the managers who have the intelligence of a McDonalds cook.
@@garvandragon I work at Amazon and I have no idea what a "free attendance point" is
Amazon is trying to create anarcho-capitalism and it shows in how they treat their employees
Unironically tho 😂😂😂
Amazon exists through State entitlements & legal favoritism, it's kinda the opposite of anarcho-capitalism....
No amazon is just the affects of capitalism. People are so brainwashed by the media they hate the modern day and are terrified of the future but will do anything and everything to avoid blaming capitalism and start calling it other things
@@ixelhainewell anarcho capitalism is an oxymoron in of itself
@@proeramoka9168
Only if you're using the definition pushed by the States of Capitalism theory popularized by Werner Sombart, a fascist propagandist & member of the Nazi Party.
But seeing as how that's not a valid definition, I don't see why anyone would think that capitalism's system of allowing the creators of wealth to keep the fruits of their own labor rather than having the State & those it entitles to extract wealth from the people, would be opposed to a benevolent anarchy.
This shit is literally a dystopian future
Oh you could I don't know amazon give your workers a proper contract with days off they can actually take.
Why would they do that if current setup gives them more money? Even if workers leave there will be always desperate ppl seeking job.
The only way Amazon can change is through fines and governmental control.
That is not what is described here at all.
@@MoreBollocks-ui2zsThat's exactly what's described here.
@@MoreBollocks-ui2zs bro just goes into every reply section talking like a corpo
@@TwiliPaladinthis is not what is described here. They get time off, this is voluntary "extra" time off. Do your ears even work or are they just there for aesthetics?
The dystopian future is here, and it boils down to people accept it if their trinkets are shiny enough.
Would be illegal in germany and sounds really dystopian Wtf
It's weird to hear someone talking about my job
Don't forget about those sneaky or bs (Silent VTO)
I would die working in a place like that. In my current work I can come to the office whenever I want, I can take a small nap whenever I want, go home whenever I want. At my workplace the only thing that matters is that the work is done and that I do, well even. In a workplace like Amazon the stress would just kill me.
Wagey cagey is a meme based on reality, mostly Amazon.
“If money is evil, then that building is hell.”
As someone who worked as a driver, this is all true.
Tried putting time off a YEAR in advance and couldn't do it because we'd be too busy. Im sorry you can't expect that market a year in advance, some holidays weren't as busy as they were usually so its not a constant trend.
Wow, imagine escaping the hell of working for amazon only to create something to make everyone still stuck there's lives even worse, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night
People are terrible
@RR-on4sk I know people suck, but I'm still shocked every time someone does something majorly shitty, I guess I'm still naive
They have limited unpaid vacation? That's extremely depressing
Right? What insane bull is this? I have to compete to have an unpaid day off?
I dont have experience with fulltime positions, but typically vto is offered to part time people who have the bare basic responsibilities
Why would you want unlimited unpaid vacation? Sounds like an easy way to lose a good portion of your workforce around the holidays.
VTO is not vacation. Its voluntary time off which is given before or during shifts to cut down on hours if there is too many people. Vacation however is not capped.
That's absolutely fuckimg insane
Limited unpaid time off that comes with risk of retaliation should be illegal. People have lives.
To clear up the confusion: Amazon has several time off options, UPT, PTO, Vacation time, VTO, Bereavement leave, and sick leave.
UPT is a limited balance meaning unpaid time off, if you go negative, you are fired within a week. You can use PTO to cover that time and refund UPT.
PTO is just as it sounds, paid time off. It has a yearly cap, around 80 hours max with I believe is 60 hours max accrueal per year. It cannot go negative.
VTO is voluntary, meaning you don't get paid for the moment you take it and clock out. Sometimes you can take a week-long VTO, rare albeit.
Vacation time is accrued very slowly in comparison to UPT and PTO, but has to be approved when taking the time off.
Sick leave can be tricky, sometimes they'll be a little hard to use. They'll refund UPT if a supplied doctors note is valid.
Bereavement leave lets you take a few days off to mourne a deceased immediate family member.
UPT, PTO, and Vacation time all accrue at different rates, have different caps.
Amazon is one of the most fair companies in terms of time off policies.
Less facts, more outrage please.
Upt is 80 and PTO is max 48 per year.
Who is making these bots?
Any kid with access to the internet. It's not hard to make them.
Amazon still owes me £500. From 8 years ago when I worked for them.
And people wonder why everyone was annoyed when that worker the other day saved a persons life and got a pizza party and laptop. The next day they do shit like this. They don’t care, they just want the numbers to increase.
being able to quit on the spot is a godsend.
Imagine getting a job and then scrambling to find every possible way to take time off lmao.
Amazon needs to unionize BAD
Amazon is actively combating Unionisation through propaganda and it's own management practices.
It's a lot easier to unionise when employers don't yet recognise the threat, and pro-union agitators are able to speak with their colleagues and educate them beforehand. It's called 'inoculation.'
If this isn’t breaking any laws we should consider crime
Standard time off options do still exist. This is thankfully only in addition, the botting is because not only does VTO not spend time off, it also gives you time off equivalent to the shift you would've worked if you didn't use VTO.
I think a more dystopian part of this is sometimes they have VTO opportunities mid shift, and that's mostly up to low level management to hand out, which can obviously lead to a lot of favoritism.
@@starmangalaxy2001 ah that makes more sense I thought that was replacing pto, still a strange system idk what they were hoping for here
@@nickwilliams2745 At least on the sorting center side of things I think it probably has something to do with order volume. If there's not a lot of orders or a truck that's inbound is late or something, why have everyone there if you can get the same amount of work done with fewer people? At least that's how I think of it. You are right that it's a weird system, but it's not obviously evil like some things I've heard about from other people on the internet.
Buying time off is something that should trigger revolt when heard.
Never have understood the mentality of accepting a job and then bitching that they don't do things the way you want to.
I used to work for Amazon n it doesn’t matter how good of an employee or how long you’ve been there. If you’re even -1 unpaid time off you’ll immediately get fired.
That's not entirely true, I've seen people with -10 UPT and not get fired, I at one point had -5 UPT and was given a warning but still worked and after a few weeks my UPT built back up into positve.
Bro you get 50 minutes of PTO a day. You can no call no show every 12 days. How the fuck do yall run out of upt?
Do you just not show up to work? Amazon pto system gives more leniency than any other job.
Be 6 minutes late to Aldi 3 times in 3 months, you’re fired. No questions asked. They fired the GM at the one in my town from that.
You can be 40 minutes late to Amazon every day and not have problems.
@@jacobjones1849 you get 24 pts of UPT if you are FT, if you are Flex it's different, there is no UPT, you have a total of 8 points, if you are late, you can hit docked a point, 2 for no show etc. I'm 60 days you can earn those points back, and as far as PTO is concerned it differs from place to place, where I work now, at an Amazon locker stite, sure, I can use PTO if I have it, but my manager requests I leave a message first, otherwise disciplinary action.
Hi former amazon worker here who quiting tomorrow at time of writing. It didn't help that there be rarely a warning that we be getting VTO and when we wanna check we get in trouble for being on our phones.
As someone who worked at Amazon it's even worse during peak times of the year when VTO is barely given out
Reminder: you don't request time off, you tell your workplace WHEN you're taking off. You're informing, not begging.
To be honest, I've had the same idea when I worked there.
VTO is only dished out when demand for warehouse is low, Amazon has UPT (unpaid time off) that builds up every day, PTO (paid time off) which build very week and Vacation that builds every week. VTO is effectively a cut list.
I have worked in warehouses for Amazon for the past 4 years, it’s not bad, it just sounds like it because it’s different than other jobs. And calling UPT a finite number is technically true, but I had 80 hours of UPT at one point very early in my time at Amazon. As long as you show up for 90% of your work days you will typically will be fine.
You have to try to be fired from most FCs
As a federal government employee, I watched this 4 times and it only made my head hurt worse. We get 4/6/8 hrs of paid leave/pay period (depending on length of service) & 4hrs of sick leave. We also can accumulate up to 140-ish hrs of leave without pay & in emergency situations can use up to 240hrs of advanced sick leave that we either have to pay or earn back. Plus, we get about a dozen paid federal holidays. We also have a leave donation program for if a colleague gets sick we can transfer some of our unused leave to them. Oh, and many agencies are unionized.
Handing out what should be your right is really crooked behavior that the government was made to stop happening.
I promise the turnover is so high there that if you just don’t show up for a day they might not even notice if you’re in the warehouse lmao
This is true... 90% of people don't make it past the first day
Can confirm, My wife and i cannot claim VTO via the app, however managers can give out VTO on site if they are allowed, meaning you can still get it if you show up for a few hours, usually. Doesnt help they recently updated the app so its loading screens are worse, making it harder to claim VTO or extra shifts.
They also have PTO (paid time off) vacation time and unpaid time off depending on your state but this works near me in Wisconsin
When I worked at TUS1, it wasn't VTO, it was being VTold to go home. Either you'd take the "voluntary" time off, or you'd get shoved into a position you weren't trained to do that had rate and held top the same standard as the usual worker. We learned pretty fast that you either took the hot or your risk getting fired for not making rate in an area you didn't typically work in and didn't have the experience or training for. It was an absolute shitshow and I'm delighted to have gotten out.
I used to work for Amazon, VTO was indeed hard to come by, but the work was pretty easy. Just moving around packages. It was actually kinda fun.
"You load Sixteen Tonnes, Whaddya Get? Another Day Older and Deeper in Debt."
This is why we get 48 hours of pto a year, 5 minutes of upt an hour and 1 hour and 33 minutes of vacation a week.
Sounds a hell of a lot like Comcast when I used to work there. Shop around, folks, there's always a company that'll treat you better if you have the skills they need
I dont have to imagine, this is the standard.
I used to sit and wait for this to pop up ,it would only show up on the east side of the building at a certain time
I believe the purpose of vto on the company side is for staffing and costs. They could set up the app to let employees issue vto to each other. For example, Person A wants to take Friday off, and Person B wants to work that same Friday. Person A issues a VTO request, Person B sees the request as VET, Voluntary EXTRA Time, and accepts. As far as regular Vto....issue it from the building manually🤷🏽♂️
They actually already have that system called Shift Swap that lets you trade shifts with other associates.
@SuperZac234 They do have Shift Swap, but it's not with other associates. For example, if you need Friday off but are willing to work Saturday, you can put in a request to swap those days. You'd still be working the same number of days, just in a slightly different order. My idea was to get an extra day off if someone else wanted to take your spot.
UPT isn't really finite, as we accumulate it over time as we work, and there's no limit to how much we can get each year, only a limit to how much we can have store up at once. I'm pretty sure it's 80 hours for most employees, and at least at my facility, we get 1 minute of UPT per 12 minutes worked (5 minutes per hour), which means that it actually builds up pretty fast.
Even outside of that we also get PTO and Vacation, which are both paid, and we have Leave of Absence options for anytime we need to take expended periods of time off, and they don't use up any of our other time off options.
Boycott Amazon if you can.
VTO occurrence varies greatly from warehouse to warehouse, to time of year, and how many employees called off. The warehouse across from the FC i worked at got it all the time. Mine had varied from having it everyday, multiple times a day, throughout a week, to 3 and half months of no VTO available. But one thing that wasn't mentioned that at a lot of facilities, if you claim VTO too much, they'll bump you down the line
The Air Force treated me like a number, but Amazon treated me like a piece of equipment, and not a valuable one either.
Im a Amazon hub and deliver packages every SINGLE day. I get 4 days off a year, New year, 4th of July, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Im not joking either. But .... And its a expensive but ..... I make on average 38 a hour. Thats a average. Around Christmas it can reach 50.
Was a driver and a warehouse worker, neither of them are worth it and both are part time
Not only was it a pain in the ass to try and use it, but it was also a pain to build it up.
Imagine having a business model that is so twisted it creates an entire black market
My job's VTO is nowhere near as ruthless, but if you run out you either can't miss work or have to buy more VTO. I still can't believe they make you pay them to have time off.
We did something similar with the flex program. We made little bots that you could put your phone on and it would tap the screen for you in the correct way to get you work for the day as you slept in till your shift. If you didn't know, they dropped the work at like 6 or earlier in the morning, so you'd have to wake up all super early and sit there and tap your screen for a chance to work. The bot did it for you. Go in at 9 of later depending on what job it caught for you
When I want PTO I send an email to my boss and then submit a timecard. What the hell kind of corporate hellscape is this?
Another thing they do is not put it through the app for employees to accept but instead have a manager announce it and put the time in manually. Problem with this is they ask the friends and favorite people first, then offer it to lower performers so they can maintain minimum expected daily numbers while still giving vto to keep cost down.
Amazon worker get an hour of unpaid time off of every 12 they work, a set amount of PTO, Vacation. AND the option of Personal Leave of absence for vacations. VTO has nothing to do with off time. 🤷🏼♀️
This is why I do myshopping at eBay it may be a little worse for where but at least the employees are treated better
I just read an article about beezos. His mistress with whom he became engaged last year, said he was someone with a great sense of humor, and likes to spread joy to people. He likes people to be joyous. She is flat out gas lighting the public. I'm thinking he sold his conscience somewhere along the way. The working conditions in the warehouses is just absolutely cruel.
I used to work for Amazon. I left & got a good career. I remember one day, at my new job, we were slow, and my boss told me to take a lunch hour. An HOUR. It blew my mind. I literally cried and called my wife.
LMAO Amazon rarely runs out of VTO. Only time VTO is never served is during peaks, which are typically summer, thanksgiving and christmas.
I'd guess that at least 96% of Amazon employees do not know how to use github-hosted bots to autoclaim VTO.
I've worked at Amazon several times, I am a software engineer who's worked in the warehouse doing hard physical labor, and very few of the RME team can even comprehend software development.
They throw VTO out like candy
My work has VTO but we never know when or how much and instead of first come first serve they pick random people. We also "aren't allowed" unpaid time off now and can only use PTO which we get 40hrs of a year and it has to he approved 3+ weeks out
This has been going on for a while, I worked at Amazon in 2019 and I could almost never get VTO. At the beginning you could see who accepted on the boards by our stations, but I made friends with security and most of the time the people who accepted it hadn't even entered the parking lot.
Yup, you get a notification on your phone.. half the time you don't even have to roll outta bed to accept it
VTO was rarely a full day in my experience. It would be a last minute sort of thing to save the company money. They also give you something like 40hrs of UPT per quarter. When i left amazon, i still had something like 100hrs of UPT left. There is also PTO and Vacation time that also accumulate. They are all separate and the system is actually pretty awesome.
When I worked for the state I had to put in leave requests 90 days in advance, and I was lucky if I was told if it was accepted within 90 days. Half the time it was accepted I didn't find out until my name wasn't called in turnout. Even then, that was extremely rare.
I had to sick the union on them.
They'll sometimes offer it in building too. Depending on the warehouse.
Ahhh I remember my old job. The place used an automated system to approve 8 hours off. I worked 12 hour shifts and had to book the 12 hours and then ask to get it approved. But if you put in 8 hours for the same day well it declined me the time off and auto approved yours. I was later let go for not working to pace after being burnt out with 50 hours of holiday still available (they'd failed to tell me it the previous year so it roled over) and my regular holiday still not used.
When I worked at Amazon and vto got announced you had to pray that that scanner didn’t take too long to load, cause those spits would fill in two seconds flat
they also like to approve days off, then reschedule you for the same day a few hours before the shift starts (they'd usually do it around 4am), doesn't matter whether you got it approved two days prior or a month in advance
this isn't an accident either, both unapproved and approved days off are marked very clearly on the calendar
I worked at Amazon a couple years back for such a short amount of time i don’t even put it on my resume. It was by far the worst job experience of my life
That's literally my job. I don't even want to get paid to get time off but I have to basically beg for time off
Amazon needs to get sued. They are so dystopian.
So glad i live and work in Australia. 4 weeks annual leave and 3 weeks personal (sick) leave
when I worked for amazon, they would sometimes come up to you in the middle of a shift and ask if you want to go home. if you said yes, they would tell you to finish up and accept it in the app before you clock out. it was really weird, I thought I did something wrong the first time they asked.
We have that were I work but VTO is offered when business is slow and there is not enough work to support the amount of hours you have in the building. So if you are offered VTO you can use personal time or vacation time to cover the shift and your check won't be short. This is also a sneaky way to get you to burn up all your time so you have to stay or if you leave you don't get paid.
Makes sense whenever I get a message that there is VTO I immediately check to see that it's already filled up
See they have us so reliant on work that taking a day off to do anything is a punishment.
At PCA you work mandatory 12's for 6 days a week in the heat, and you only get 40 hours of sick time for the whole year.
Worked at an Amazon warehouse and can confirm you’ll never see VTO
They call it Voluntary Time Off as if their job is their life and the time off is just a burden