Are we going back to PHP with fullstack JavaScript?
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In my early days as a web developer, I got started with HTML, CSS, JS and PHP.
Nowadays, modern fullstack JavaScript / JSX code can kind of feel like that basic PHP code I wrote back then. But is it really the same?
I think we over complicated web development in the past few years.
Thanks Max!
Man, you said it right!! Web development has been over-engineered!!
Am happy everyone is seeing php was simple, JavaScript ought to simpler since backend js came after PHP but instead it became too complicated. And funny enough people take it's complexity as a positive thing and look down on the simplicity of PHP. I first started with node but once I learned PHP, it was hard to think of building apps with node because I had less headaches.
Web development got overcomplicated simply because programmers are not designers. Most programmers will do anything in their power to produce something quick before actually trying to develop something from scratch, specially if there's graphic design involved, which is what the web is mostly, if not all, made of.
@@CristianKirk I can't argue with the graphic design part.
also, I know that using known frameworks make it easy for programmers to catch up on other's projects in a short period of time.
but, I think these frameworks are getting bigger and heavier overtime for acceptable reasons (fixing vulnerabilities, adding new features, keeping backward compatibility), this can be an overkill for small and maybe medium websites/apps which in return will drive some programmers to develop their own simplified frameworks so that will not start from scratch in future projects
Finally, I'm not totally against these new dev complexity rather than being wise using it.
Thanks all for your feedbacks
The same thing over complicated the backend development by turning every system into microservices. Most "websites" don't need to be thick client SPA . It is the same old skilled incompetence issues in human history. âIf the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.â - Abraham Maslow
As a web developer, I was using PHP then, still using PHP now. PHP/MariaDB/Vanilla JS and yes, Tailwind.
Haha same. Good old lamp stack
And i thought am a weird developer for using this stack đ
My brutha. Except I used mysql mostly.
Are you using PHP natively? Or use some framework?
like me bro, i use Javascript for ajax and some necessary events
I know this is not the main topic of this video, but as a PHP developer for over 11 years, I got real tired real quick from people claiming that PHP is dead when in all reality I almost never felt I needed to learn another back-end language because the job opportunities revolving around PHP (Laravel, CodeIgniter, WordPress, Drupal, etc.) are as broad as ever (knock on wood). This is not to say that other languages are better/worse. I like to tinker with full-stack JS for personal projects, just to keep myself involved with what's new. So if you are a junior PHP developer, don't feel discouraged. PHP is an excellent tool to build formidable and scalable websites, there is no concrete evidence that it is going away anytime soon.
Php is built like a tank . Never gets old plain and simple no drama unlike the rest is a brittle due to constant changes that sometimes my 3yrs code wont work forces me to update
totally agree, i migrated applications made with php 5.3 to 8.2 with very low effort
Agree! I am old. I want stability. I don't have time experimenting some code tagged as canary or flavor of the minute framework.
Php is making a massive comeback thanks to Laravel! MARK!
Symfony > Laravel
@@hermes6910 No
Can we combine php with react or is it an overkill ??
@@anonymouscitizen4235 For most use cases (especially on its own), React is just overenginering your project.
But there's nothing wrong with using it with php.
â@@anonymouscitizen4235 ofc , try laravel with ineritia and react
I remember scoffing at PHP when I learned Ruby and Rails. My website was slowing down to a crawl with Rails, and debugging it was a nightmare. So I eventually went back to PHP, humbled, and I'm glad Laravel exists.
Skill issue?
@@gamerneversleep4200 right, that explains why Rails is dead, ppl lacked skills
@@danfg7215 Rails isn't dead, and not only is faster than in previous versions but getting really important new additions like Hotwire so not only you don't need a JS framework to provide interactivity, but you can build from web to iOS/Android apps using the same tools. Also the future for Rails 8 is becoming promising with new features for security and deployment, the latter with Kamal.
But nothing of the above should be understood as against PHP, in fact is a really good thing than we are now moving towards a separation and simplification of full stack development, while at the same time the major frameworks (Laravel, Rails, Django, Phoenix, etc) are not only getting better/faster but also providing new features.
If rails is dead, laravel is equally dead.
Django > *
Iâm glad someone else sees this. Also thanks for your react course and node.js I bought them both. When I started web dev in 2001 we used .net and asp pages and did server side vb and client side html side by side in the same asp pages. Recently I used PHP for the first time and went âwoahâŠthis is mixed like asp pagesâ. Then I saw Next.js and had the exact same thought. WowâŠI guess bell bottoms and mullets are back in style.
PHP with Symfony is truly a magical web builder
until Laravel came out
â@@diegoc3749 Have you tried Symfony, on a complex API, not the typical CRUD API?
Symfony is a good framework. much better than Laravel. I wish people would stop being sucked into using Laravel
Laravel actually uses many Symfony components under the hood. There are many developers who eventually migrate from Laravel to Symfony, but it's rarely the other way around. Laravel is more popular because it's easier to learn, but at some point senior developers need something more mature and robust and start looking at Symfony. Laravel is extremely popular because it has great marketing and learning materials, Symfony being a bit more complex to master, but there is a reason why most PHP projects like CMS, ecommerce, etc. use Symfony as their core or many of its modules for functionality @@diegoc3749
I have 12 years programming in PHP projects of different complexities and areas and it is for me the best server language in combination with Javascript and GO is simply perfect
Amazing !
Which framework of PHP do you recommend to learn first ? I am frontend developer with JS/React/TS.
Php is perfect for the most common tasks developers need. Out of the box you have built in functions for Date math, object/array manipulation, data validation & sanitation and currency arithmetic. Each of those requires a separate library or more to do in js/node environments, when building small apps and one off sites that are only pushing blog/news/comments it just works, you then just use js for UI animations and ajax content.
I've started with PHP đ„
In fact, my profile is to work with Laravel and ReactJS â€âđ„
I came from HTML Strict 1.1, where Internet Guides and Stackoverflow and co didn't exist. I feel your pain mate. Nobody new devs will NEVER understand what struggle we went though.
Just use whatever you're comfortable with and what best suits the project.
How dare you use reason! Bah!
I also come from the generation where C (Turbo C) was my first ever language that I learned, and PHP was the first language with which I started my IT career and passion for web application development...
Turbo C++ for me. I remember when JavaScript first came out and everyone was confused and thought they needed Java applets. What what? And it went from Perl CGI scripts which got owned all the time to PHP and everything started to improve slowly from there, and it's still just fine. PHP 8 is awesome and so is Laravel. If you must JavaScript, try Vue first or even htmx and some plain JS, don't overcomplicate it to start with.
Perl, ASP, and Cold Fusion were my first tools to build dynamic websites. But, yeah, then PHP took over websites development like a huge storm
Laravel Livewire runs client side and lets you build reusable components just like a React based app. I think PHP has better built in integration with relational databases.
Yes, PHP certainly has better tooling (both built-in and 3rd party) for working with relational databases.
Yes you can do a lot with livewire but at some point you will need alpine js.
Livewire is amazing, but I don't like to think of it as running client side. More like it allows you to bind back end properties and functions to front end objects and events. To me it still keeps a good cognitive separation between what runs on server and what runs on client.
The TALL stack is really good to work withâ@@jmon24ify
â@@kaf83yes
Livewire acts more of like an api rather than for interactivity
But combining it with alpine makes things so good
I started with php as well and when i discovered jquery and ajax later on, it was a revelation! and after some years am going back to php and symfony, and i like it a lot tbh
Hi Maximillian! I am so glad to see you & hear your familiar voice here again. You are hands down best instructor I have seen in years alongside Corey Schafer.
PHP does what it knows what it knows to do efficiently and excellently, no drama. Can we just let this beautiful piece breathe
I started with PHP years ago like you (fellow old man) and I still use it today.
The new languages are great, but I've never needed to move. I built and run a successful saas on PHP and it's just fine.
I'm not saying it's the best, but it just works. And it's been around forever, which means it's supported and documation is everywhere
As long as your web app/website works.. the end user does not really care what is working in the backend.
I am so happy to know you've succeed ran your SaaS with PHP. While me, as a PHP dev still confuse what stack should I choose to build the SaaS. Because there are so many thoughts to not make PHP to develop SaaS. I feel excited!
PHP, Bootstrap and JavaScript are enough to build a modern website. The beauty about PHP is its function library. Secondly it has been around for so long, you get a lot of support on internet. It's a joy to work with PHP.
I recommend the AdonisJS framework. You can create server-side rendered web apps or APIs. You can use their own template engine like blade. You can use React, Vue, Svelte or Solid with InertiaJS. And maybe soon a TSX template engine too. Those who like Laravel will certainly enjoy working with AdonisJS. This framework is really fantastic but needs more support.
Where do I know this guy from, I know that voice... oh yeah, from a React course I did on udemy a long time ago! Nice to see you here, Max!
Nice to meet you here, too!
The comments in this video make me realize just how entry level the majority of the development community really is.
Can you elaborate more?
It's the frontend web devs. Since they start right away with a frontend frameworks and don't experiment outside of web dev.
What do you expect lol, most entry/junior web developers (here) are all coming from modern frontend frameworks.
True!!!
Laravel is miles ahead any JS framework. You should make a Laravel web apps + APIs course đ
He actually did; in fact it was one of his first courses around 8 years ago. But he took it down, probably because it became outdated.
Agreed. There are so many Laravel jobs in my area.
Agreed, I dove straight into Laravel without any prior coding experience. I simply wanted to build something for the company I was working for at the time. Oh boy, did it introduce me to many concepts I wouldn't have been aware of if I had just learned PHP first. Now, I can understand almost any framework since most share similarities once I've spent a few days reading the language syntax. The documentation is excellent, the ecosystem offers almost anything anyone can imagine to build, and the community around it is pretty strong. I use it as an API with React or Next.js for the frontend
I moved from Laravel to nestjs+typescript. If you read their docs you'll understand how its easy to follow clean architecture there, do microservice setups etc.
â@@realVvDI have a friend who badly wants a job to support his family
Very good video if you use Livewire you can use a same language for frontend and backend with sprinkles of AlpineJS. Yes what you have said is correct assuming most developers are frontend end developers they can ship apps knowing only frontend. Inertia with Laravel is great too which supports SSR out of the box.
What about Inertia (SSR) and its impact on SEĐ?
@@todormarkov2860 with livewire you don't need inertia for SEO. It worked perfectly fine
I love PHP and have for a long time, itâs always made sense to me.
Thank you for bringing this topic.
I have started using nextJs recently and I had the same feelings as yours like the php,jsp era coming back?
There are definitely benefits of server side rendering and nextJs enables mixing between server and client. It's cool but also causes confusion.
Each step with NextJs, I revalidate my SPA development habit is good or not which leads my implementation time slower.
I think it'd be awesome to have what are the real world examples of mixing server/client side components.
I started doing web developing about 15 years ago. I believe that PHP and JS have both evolved pretty equally in terms of features. Developing in both languages has become so much better over the years.
I doubt JS will ever fully replace PHP. There's just too many things that PHP does more securely than could ever be done in a client, such as file and database access. There's some stuff you just can't have exposed to the client, and that's where JS falls short. Even if you obfuscate or secure your endpoints, the client can still see and modify XHR requests. Something that you can't do with server side processing. As for V8, it will never be able to fully replace PHP as a server because there's just so many limitations it has in terms of the features in the engine versus what's available in the real client. Because there isn't a 1-to-1 relation between the engine and client, you'll always have edge cases you're working around which is a terrible way to develop. I like the idea of V8, but I think it does more harm than good. It's best to leave PHP and JS separate, because they are separate languages with separate concerns.
As a developer with 20 years of daily experience, I think that Php is still the best way to develop web applications today
I agree with Max! JavaScript is great for full stack applications and web sites, now. There are other options of course like: PHP-Laravel, Ruby-Ruby on Rails, Python-Django, Java-Spring, C#-.NET etc. It is about the wealth of options when it comes to making/developing web apps and websites! At the beggining of 2000s there were only few ways for making dynamic websites, now there are many ways. Developers should just choose the approach/es that suit/s them best for the projects they work on. In the end there is no "best" option! It is not all about the tools, it is how you use them. đ
PHP is awesome. I have been developing with it since the 90's and it has come a long way. It is easy to place your files on the server and it just works. It's fast, feature-rich, and mature, and also can be used to make powerful CLI applications. It supports multithreading and it's easy to make powerful, fast, reliable daemons.
Yeah, with htmx and even the advent of react, made me question this as well. I started with PHP4 and then slapped to learn PHP5 , converting sql statements to prepared sql statements. I did LAMP stack :P
Did my masteral project with PHP/Laravel. Great way to run into MVC concept.
I started long time ago (>15y) with PHP, I hated React for so so long. But gosh I love Next now.
It feels the best of the two world now.
Not even do I need an API aside now, not even do I need to actually spend time coding, I can full focus features, what a wonderful circle.
i left the PHP world long time a go and got in the asp and angular stormy world but they have a huge advantage in Fintech companies, so going with the market demands is the true source of info for me. thank you ( Js and c#)
SPAs is the main difference. They did not exist back in the old php days so php was sending back full pages or at best small ajax response fragments.
Modern js tech have made the front-end way more powerful (and also way more convoluted). You can still today perfectly use php as the backend for an angular/react app. Today we have many more alternatives of course
it must work without JS, you do not even know how many people just turn JS off when browsing the web. PHP first, then add some JS if you need it, but make sure, the whole thing works on a browser that cancels any JS.
We need a full php course max!!
I started my programming career 11 years ago using PHP for 6 years. Must to say is easy to learn.
Oh, the good ole days of PHP back in the day. It's was my first web programming language back in the year 2000. Can't believe it's been 24 years. đ€Łđ
crazy enough there are people out there still opposing PHP thinking it works the same as it did back then.
Max, I hope you are still part of Academind, one of the most advanced channels for software development.
Yes, I am!
@@maximilian-schwarzmueller huh, great!)
Hello Maximilian, i would like you to know that i got my first job as a React Native developer thanks to your courses on Udemy. This is just a thank you post :)
I see many complain about security in relation to injection, but in this context this is not a problem, we have many layers of security for this, but what I keep thinking is that this approach similar to PHP makes it possible to create systems with a single file, in PHP if the dev didn't implement a file type filter in the upload form, and if the server didn't have a well-configured server with folder permissions, all you had to do was upload a file manager and have full access to the code.
i am currentyl using PHP at work and building a personal project with nextjs 14 RSC and server actions, and its very similar but entirely different. i feel the new stack is much more streamlined. with PHP you need to setup a lot of stuff to get a proper experience of developing server driven web apps, but after going through with it, for me at least, the result is very similar to the new stack. you render the server side of the app, then do client interactions and client-server interactions. the methods are similar, but new its all integrated and its much faster to start with. but comapred with PHP using a framework like Laravel, the experience is so much the same it doesnt really matter any more. its a qeustion of what is more convenient for you and which ecosystem you prefer.
Ich wĂŒrd mich zu sehr dafĂŒr interessieren wie du damals den Weg zum Informatik Tutor eingeschlagen hast. WĂŒrd gern die ganze Backstory hören. Wann, wieso, was hast du in der zwischenzeit gemacht :D
I loved the beauty of symfony and laravel.
But now I'm in love with .NET 8 đ
Totally agree. I was recently involved with a next project, where I usually work with Laravel, and found it extremely lacking compared to laravel. So much spaghetti code was written to just do simple things like seed a database, create models and what not.
Try t3 stack
Do you have any plans for a Laravel tutorial at Udemy?
Frontend framework just got in the sampe path that linux distors got, a lot of duplicated frameworks just like a lot of duplicated and useless linux distros... a lot of inconsistencies and unecessary challenges, a lot of borne costs to developers and companies due to lots of exactly the same but diffrent in names! hooks, composition api,dynamic loading, resumibility etc...
Very true and i use Linux Desktop base OS. Too much freedom can turn into messy world.
@@jediampm fact
also unix philosophy of doing one small thing good we see in package management, where there are too many dependencies which is security risk and inability to do leftpad by yourself
As a Linux user I couldn't agree more.
let's be honest, modern stacks feel kind of stressful more than fun a lot of the time
I love your JavaScript courses
Thank you so much!
Hello, I have been involved with Java and JavaScript frameworks for about two years to learn the easiest way to build a web. Finally, I came to the conclusion that a level knowledge of JavaScript along with PHP can be much better than React or Angular to start working. Those who know object orientation, in my opinion, if they have problems with JS frameworks, they should definitely talk about PHP.
PHP can be used on both client side and server-side... try Laravel and Livewire
Max, what u tnink to make php course... the way u do ?
PHP is literally a templating language on its own. You don't need a separate templating engine to use it for that. I would love to see a better programmer than me create components using one of the front end frameworks compared with using PHP as a templating language, and see just how much worse or better each one is. For rendering mid-sized components, an inventory item card for example, PHP is extremely easy to pull that in. Combining a bunch of smaller components together into a larger component may be where it would be harder due to all of the includes that would be needed. But, I'm not positive it couldn't be done in a more elegant way than that.
JS/TS still have imports, it's all the same crap.
I only used php for server side and javascript for client side for last 10 years. Never needed to look else where. I developed many projects for clients and never needed something else to complete any project. Yes, you also happen to use windows binaries and python libraries in php apps for some functionalities but php always saves your back.
Bro, i use php in almost all my web app projects, i use Laravel and i also add javascript to Handle AJAX requests, and is easy for me to work with theses technologies. PHP never dies.
definitely!
First, I'm on the same timeline with you, so I watched, used but not trusted (especialy latest) javascript expansion as the 'best' tool for anything.
Second, I've herd this argument of 'the same language front and back ends' as the easiest way to do .... but that would be true if there would be javascript: instead all the frameworks starting with those before Angular (such as Backbone) and up to today's Vue, React, next , etc, all are reinventing and forcing own syntaxes, rules, formats, file extensions and blending Typescript in between.
Third: recall that all the big online names of today started as php websites; so as a piece of advice (for newcomers) , start simple and you'll be surprised how far you'll get until fancy architectures and js libs and frameworks may be needed.
Always top contents!
I'm no dev, just was always kind of interested. x) I started playing with html and later I learned some basic php-stuff. For some Reason I never was interested into JavaScript since I thought: What about people who disable JS in their browser?
Long story short: I was interested in some coding but never had ideas for content or was good in designing (graphics/stylesheets) and thus everything I made was boring and ugly so I did not continue⊠x)
Years later (now!) I stumbled over htmx (wich is basically an JS-Library, so much for âwhat if..â xD) and play around using it with PHP. Its kind of fun and somewhat exciting but I have the same problems as back then: no idea for content and design.
So I once again prefer to spent my time on playing Video Games instead of âcreating somethingâ. x)
đ same situation but I haven't called it a quit, don't think I will since there are other creatives around who can give ideas
I started with front end react. Then it felt so limiting, I cannot finish most features with that alone so I switched focus to backend Laravel then added Vue for the interactity with some CSS
i started with php , and continue working with php and bunch of other stuff .. but i think php is still better option for building many websites and backend. its very cool and simple ..
Hi, do you plan to give a nextjs course with typescript sometime?
We are similar age and yes we all used to do PHP back then
I use Mamp right now.
ha ha, used to? I have been doing it for 28 years, it is been a gold mine, and still is, in fact it is better than ever has been ...
I am new to nextjs, and I like the integrated full-stack dev part about it. But I also feel that because of its serverless architecture it poses a lot of limitations. You have to think away from nextjs if you want to build a big projects. I think something similar to nextjs without the serverless would be worth trying.
PHP can do most anything you need. I love to develop vanilla applications. I developed my own basic framework,. It is simple, I know what's in it. I know how secure it is. It is no wonder why so many sites get hacked now days. People are blindly including composer stuff that they don't even know what's going on behind the the code. There are so many files and have become so complicated that it is even amazing that it works. The internet and computers are fast enough now days that server side scripting is not and issue.
Some of us started with ASP (Active Server Pages) and then moved to WebForms, then MVC before going to SPAs. It is a bit funny that, like you said we came around a full circle đ€Łđ
nah, you reinvented the circle that never needed reinventing. I have stayed with PHP 28 years, watched and laughed ...
@@swojnowski453 congrats! I'm glad it worked out for you and you outsmarted everyone.
@@iamchesco nah, I have outsmarted no one. I worked with others. OUr common effort lofted all the boats ...
After years of slinging React, Vue and Node.
These days if a site doesnât need a heck of a lot of front end functionality and has a simple or no API then I will reach for PHP and jQuery when I need simple, fast performing sites.
The older I get the more simplicity I crave.
Although, I wish Laravel had not gotten rid of their small brother framework: Lumen.
I can definitely relate with this simplicity take!
In your opinion, how about the Slim PHP framework, can it replace Lumen ??
I've been learning html css and js what's next? Which language or framework should i learn?
on frontend you should go for react and for backend go for nodejs express (node framework) or nest(same nodejs framwork)
no next, build your project and see what's missing, on that basis you find out where to go next.
Build something. That's the most important part of learning. Build something entirely by yourself and don't go with any tutorials or copilot.
@@_DATA_EXPUNGED_ the reason is, you encounter problems that are relevant to what you build and if you solve them the solution will stick. Solutions to irrelevant problems do not stick ... most of the time.
Javascript also has its own Laravel-like framework called AdonisJS, instead of using Blade, they have Edge with very similar syntax of Blade
Yep, that's true! Played around a bit with it + liked it quite a lot.
Adonisjs is the best nodejs backend framework đđ
I must admit that sometimes itâs difficult to choose if itâs going to be a client or server component and have to reorganize the structure while working with nextjs. But once you get a hold of it, itâs not a big problem. Other than that itâs been a joy and mostly surprising experience for large projects. Even though the question of âare we going back to php days?â might look valid, the experience of React and Nextjs is far superior. Simply one or two lines of code you can decide if itâs going to run on server or itâs full clientside idea works like magic.
Currently only problem is lighthouse score in my opinion. Just because google and lighthouse are pushing it too hard, we have to use too much dynamic imports or remove animation frameworks (framer motion) occasionally and switch to css solutions.
On the other hand, if youâre a django or lavarel developer, htmx looks a like a viable alternative (mostly great for dashboards or simple projects). But I think the future is NextJS, Astro, Svelte and similar modern frameworks.
the only reason to use server side rendering was in the past the fact that it helps SEO, can you give me some extra examples why now?
@@SXsoft99 Another benefit of server side rendering is reducing the side of bundle on the frontend
@@moka7986 code splitting too
I can't count how many projects I did in the XAMPP. Super underrated language after version 7.
So true.
I just started with PHP and yeah I am really enjoying it. Already build a full login and registration system
Sad today's world hate simple straight forward stuff like PHP. Or else if we love simplicity why wouldn't we just stick to 2 genders but know we like 1100 gender and counting. Gender ideology must have inspired js frameworks
In 2005 we had codeigniter with the MVC pattern on the backend, what is the improved and modern nextjs version of that today?
I have been using codeIgniter for some 20+ years, it is fast as a shark, no chenges needed.
Laravel and Vuejs was good choice for me last 4 years but livewire 3 change my mind. Not telling this is the best choice for development( still for SPA is vuejs better choice ) but write one in php full dynamic website without refreshing full page and loading all assets is good for most projects.
nah, your app has to work without JS first, if it doesn't it is a piece of junk ...
Next js, Nuxt Js both are prime example, at the end every language wants to be php.
reinventing the wheel that was never needed ... but well, some people need to learn the hard way ...
we had a full CRM built in-house on LAMP; stability, speed, simplicity, one point of truth, and very very cheap until the we decided to go Salesforce, lol
The biggest advantage to server side JavaScript isnât that itâs the same language as the client but rather I can reuse the same components on both
you can reuse components that are impossible to test? thats interesting xD
Clientside and serverside JS are nowhere near the same. There's heaps of limitations in V8, many of which can literally never be solved due to the difference in environments.
@@Dylan_thebrand_slayer_Mulveiny React Server components in Nextjs are surprisingly seamless and easy to use once you understand the fundamentals.
@@ScottMaday You're still working around edge cases caused by the differences in environments, regardlexs of what framework you use.
@@Dylan_thebrand_slayer_Mulveiny The biggest pain is dealing with other libraries that donât consider server side rendering in my experience. Otherwise I rarely have to work around anything
Can someone give more information about Laravel and Inertia with SSR and more specifically the impact on SEO?
I like js frameworks because of component reuse and state management,but it seems to be a problem especially when SEO is important for the company.
Laravel seems pretty well organized to me, stable with a great community.
Yes Laravel is a master piece. Still it is good to create your own mini php model controller route framework if you prefer to. Also implementing JWT auth makes it a great compliment to create secure APIs
just use codeIgniter 4, it is super small and super flexible ...
is this your new channel? ah, long time no see you. Years ago i learn many things from you, from youtube also udemy
At least for small projects I went all way to PHP. For large projects - something JVM based. Haven't tried running JS on server side at scale, wonder how that works...
I started with php i love it
Love it!!!!!!!
I always asked this question why are we moving to backend but to my satisfaction we are now having hybrid option
Glad I stopped going nuts over frontend and frameworks like NextJS and moved on to PHP with Laravel. There is InertiaJS which you can use with a frontend frameworks like Vue or React leveraging full-blown PHP from the backend.
I was thinking of trying Inertia, but it seems to be a problem with SSR...
@@todormarkov2860 Problem of what sort? Check out the doc for the SSR.
@@todormarkov2860It supports SSR
Yes Max, and that's why we need a FullStack Nuxt3 course. Because it's the best way nowadays to create full-stack apps
Ruby on Rails is still gold
You do not need a templating engine for PHP, but they do help
I started with java, JavaScript. Then PHP. Then angular and node.
PHP 8.x is awesome!
We are most certainly going to be seeing less use of frontend frameworks, because we simply don't need them anymore. Plain old JS, with Web Components, and Web APIs all provided by the browser make applications really lean. That's my humble opinion, but one backed up by 30 years in the industry.
nah, you just old :D... jokes aside...
you probably right.
a lot of the newer frameworks are much smaller and more optimized compared to react. solid and svelte todomvc is roughly 5kb gzipped. meanwhile react is roughly 35kb gzipped. i haven't done benchmarks for web components but i would imagine it's not far off from solid and svelte.
Tbh i think if you're the average professional developer merely making bog standard websites for companies or basic e-commerce, things have not and will not change and there is really not objective advantages that apply to every scenario to doing it one way over another. That's why we still require humans to make decisions about the software, you're supposed to analyze the requirement and decide on the best approach.
In one company i've worked at Javascript frameworks were outright banned due to Analytics providers not working seamlessly with them, analytics were a MAJOR deal for this company so the apps had to be server rendered, and the easiest way to do that for the developers there was to just use Laravel since they were all acquainted with PHP, so we did and it all worked (and works) fine.
So do what makes sense for your context, figuring that out is 90% of the work a developer is supposed to do and why AI isn't going to replace you anytime soon
yeah, look my roof is leaking, ok we do the usual thing we have done for 30 odd years.
Actually it was XAMPP for me and it still is because of WordPress ;)
But I normaly develop in C# and therefor I have so much frontend frameworks to choose of that it is kind of overwelming. With Blazor I don#t need to separate frontend from backend but it is going to be a big ball of mud that nobody really wants.
There are many reasons to like and use Javascript, but for many websites PHP/Laravel will do just fine. Over the past years I used quite a lot and imo the eco system of Laravel blows all JS frameworks away. Is it the most fancy? Are you "limited" in some choices? Sure, you dont have 100 libraries for routing, database access etc. but to me thats a pro not a con.
Onboarding new devs is very easy, the end product is just as good. It does what it should do, and there has been a reliable and clear upgrade path for years for both Laravel & PHP.
yeah, really reliable. they killed lumen. so reliable.
Everything is simple.
Everything is hard.
Everything is knowledge.
Everything is perspective.
There is another channel for Academind?
Im in love with Springboot and Hibernate
Iâm learning this now đ
The problem I see is that many domain specific solutions are enforced into large userbase frameworks instead of keeping them simple and slim. So we have to adjust to certain ways of work to do our simple stuff just because the frameworks were built in a way to support many complex cases. That's one problem; Other thing is that these frameworks have been pushed by big tech as a must, leveraging our FOMO.
Yah javascript is still javascript as 10-20 years ago. It was power up by uncle C/C++ via V8 engine, so basically nodejs in server side is called C/C++ back-end with js interoperability đ
The problem with JS is the need to compile it. In bigger projects it is a huge pain, especially if used with webpack.
In some projects I need to wait 10 minutes or more so I could finally use it. It looks better now with vite but still, I prefer working with php for backend.
Beside this, working on JS projects is way more complicated than few years ago. It becomes a rocket science xD