The lost TONY WILLIAMS LIFETIME footage has been found! MY REACTION
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- čas přidán 3. 09. 2023
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Larry Young, I think, gave the Lifetime its signature sound. He was so unique.
Mitch Mitchell was such a fan he hung out with TW and company for some of their rehearsals, which must be face melting Live..
I heard the opening organ playing and immediately recognized Larry Young. RIP
This is a monumental find..the band is amazing..Tony is unbelievable..his h/hats are lower than his snare !? Never seen anything like it. He's all over the kit !!
Yes, I also noticed that Tony's kit set-up here is a revelation!
Elvin Jones also set his hi hat low. On the rare occasions when he played ride on his hats he crossed his left hand over his right.
Sandy Mckee of Cold Blood also used to play that way.@@randydoak6638
Tony is on the short list of totally acceptable answers to the "best" question. Dude was really rather unbelievably musical on the drums
Their few recordings show how ahead of their time their were. Just amazing.
The algorithm sent me the video last night about 11pm.
For me it's with V.S.O.P where Anthony Williams show what a master of drums he was - in Jazz-Rock : Are you the one ? with Jack Bruce on bass - and one of my favorite sont : Morgan's notion with Cecil Taylor
Picture Jack Bruce being the Bass man in the Mahavishnu Orchestra.
.........and singing!
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer
😂I know 😂👍
I don’t think John would have been too happy with Jack’s habit .
@@indigohammer5732What habit did Jack have???
He had a very long standing addiction to Heroin.
I'm a Beat Club channel subscriber & when this footage popped up I thought: Ay up, this'll make Andy a happy camper.
Just to clarify, Good God was actually a quintet. Here in Philly they were a big deal back in the early 1970's. Their full album can be found here on CZcams and I highly recommend it.
Whilst I can’t articulate why, I always felt their was an affinity between Larry Young and Alice Coltrane.
This performance popped up in my feed and I’ve been trying to wait for a chance to give it my full attention
I think JM revisited this idea with the quartet to promote the Johnny McLaughlin Electric Guitarist LP: Jack Bruce, JM, Billy Cobham and Stu Goldberg. Are you the One ? being a prime example.
This performance enhances the legacy of Lifetime. As was stated in the Paul Stump's book Go Ahead John, "their best stuff never made it onto any record." Hopefully there will be more videos. Anytime people reference Tony Williams Lifetime in articles or post, this video will be used for the evidence. It will have many views over time. Great reflection.
The other HOLY GRAIL footage would be any video/film of the New Lifetime with Holdsworth 74-76 which SHOULD exist but has never surfaced. Exhaustive research has never turned up anything, although there was a rumor circulating that the Believe It era band filmed a cable show performance. Even the Ken Burns master log shows nothing so if anything exists it may be audience rather than pro shot. ANYONE?
I know this is off-topic a little bit. But Tony Williams lifetime album believe it with Alan Holdsworth was and still is one of the most important albums in my life I remember distinctly in the early 80s casting about for a type of music that I wanted to hear. People today don’t realize it back then he couldn’t just dial up Spotify you had to plunk down hard money for an album that may or may not be what you’re looking for and the record guides kept sending me to jazz albums which I later learned to love but what I was looking for was something hard rock which was my background infused with more complexity and jazz notes. And I found believe it instantly I was like this is what I was looking for and then soon after I found Miles Jack Johnson, and both those albums still remain my favorite hard rock jazz fusion albums. I have them both framed on my wall.
0:25 tony williams lifetime, "the legendary trio" that was a quartet: tony williams, jack bruce, john mclaughlin and larry young!
Watch the whole video. I did that deliberately
Well, it originally was a trio on Emergency! and while touring for that album. Then in 1970 they hired Jack Bruce (with some pressure from Polydor) to become a quartet. Some say that Tony wasn't very happy with that. Also the band's touring name changed from "Tony Williams Lifetime" to just "Lifetime" with Jack Bruce in big letters. So Tony felt a little bit like a sideman in his own group. John didn't like that. He wanted to keep the name "TWL". Watch also that short Beat Club clip, where the announcer is saying "we can''t broadcast Lifetime" (not saying TWL).
Way back in the 70s I had an 8 track of "turn it up." Wild, strange, and lovely. Hendrix meets Miles. Lots of McLaughlin tunes and a spacey take on Jobim. Incredible!
Many thanks for letting us know, sir! Awesome, finally some filmed representation
More footage has now been released on Beat Club's channel; this time of Two Worlds (wrongly titled once again).
The seeds of Mahavishnu Orchestra are littered all throughout this video. In the video I hear the leitmotif from Dance of Maya, which would appear about a year later on Inner Mounting Flame. Your mentioning of Robert Fripp's 1972 King Crimson is an interesting coincidence in that there is also a 27 minute improv that was done by the Jamie Muir band that was recorded on the Beatclub, but never released. The video of that improv was later "found" about 15 years ago and became a part of the LTIA boxset release.
So it's Emergency ! (Anthony William ; John Mc Laughlin and Larry Young on organ) before Jack Bruce comin'
It was NOT JM who wanted to bring in his compositions to Lifetime, as you stated! He was a very shy guy at that time. Conversely, it was TW who hired John because he liked John's playing so much and wanted John to write music extensively for Lifetime, which he encouraged him to do. John reported this in many interviews.
a third of the compositions on Emergency were by John. So I cannot see how this was not a consideration for John and Tony when he was brought in. i have also read interviews where JM has said this was a consideration
@@AndyEdwardsDrummerI think Tony wanted contributors/writers, yes. Spectrum on the first TW's lp was great, but McLaughlin had written that before he joined TWL (It was on Extrapolation). Williams wrote, as did Young (who had a series of solo albums before Lifetime), as did Bruce. That might have been a consideration, but that was a pretty common expectation prior to the dominance of band leaders wanting songwriter credits. (There was a reason you saw individual credits given on the Mothers Burnt Weenie Sandwich, for instance.) If you need material, you want writers. That being said, I think the standout track on EMERGENCY! is their rendition of Carla Bley's Vashkar, which seems a strong influence on McLaughlin.
I saw it and it was great
WOAH, this is news to me! Can't wait, been always looking for something from this time/band
This is amazing, thanks Andy! I happened upon that video within hours of it being posted, just thanks to the CZcams algorithm. I'm older than you, have been listening to fusion longer than you, and had nothing LIKE the insight into this video and the dynamics at play at the inception of the genre that you share here!
Andy, re: your intro.... I agree that the Beat Club was a pop show, but not by today's standards of 'pop'. I mean, King Crimson with Jamie Muir were there, and they recorded a full 30-minute improv that's not particularly 'pop'.... it's not like Rihanna was playing there. Other bands that played at the Beat Club were Guru-guru, Popol Vuh, Amon Düül II.... Again, in early 70s parlance these were 'pop bands' but they were pretty avant-garde by other standards.
In other words, Beat-Club as a baby of Mike Leckebusch , produced by Radio Bremen was a underground show, hated from all the other responsibles and the other regional tv patriarchs but covered from the success, that it was saleable to more then 50 nations worldwide. Beat-Club the tv show where The Byrds got the space to improvise a 13min version of eight miles high.
...and there are those that wanna beat me up when I say the Pop of my youth is better than today's Pop.
Not "just different"...better! 😊
@@jazzpunk 1969, all you had to do was turn the tv slower, then 3min suddenly became 463 seconds and Vanilla Fudge crept out of the screen with some velvet morning
Ego is an amazing album and deserves praise.
Dance of Maya with lyrics. Wow n cute dog
I saw the group in Portchester, NY in 1970. I think Bruce had just joined and he was reading scores while singing and playing.
Amazing stuff. Bloody brilliant!
Love the theme and tone of this video, you should write a book with these ideas
I saw them as a 17 year old in 1970 at the Redcar Jazz Club. Normally the main band would start at about 9.00 pm, however Lifetime didn’t appear until 9.45, and I had to leave for a train at 10.25, so I didn’t catch the entire set. I loved Cream and in particular the live album from their ‘Wheels of Fire’ album, so was interested in seeing Jack Bruce, plus a local guitarist and record shop owner, Alan Fearnley, had played me his imported copy of McLaughlin’s ‘Devotion’ album, as it hadn’t been released in the U.K. at that time. However Lifetime’s music went right over my head, probably being more jazz than blues biased, plus I imagined my young age possibly meant this was hard for me to accommodate. Decades later discovered that even the music critics found difficult, so I didn’t feel so bad! Later Alan Fearnley played me the first Mahavishnu Orchestra album, which I loved; the best thing I’d heard since Cream.
Thanks for this presentation and acknowledging the Brian Auger & Good God covers of "Devotion" that we hear in this stunning performance of the Tony Williams Lifetime Mach 2 (or Mach 1B), the stuff of legends long thought to have been destroyed. It's a major discovery to have been found and in such beautiful condition. Most amazing is that we get to see the late great LARRY YOUNG (aka Khalid Yasin) working those Hammond drawbars for his trademark spooky "haunted house" washes of color. And Jack Bruce, recently out of CREAM, is so animated and energetic. McLaughlin is aloof as always and Tony "Eye of the Hurricane" Williams is his usual stellar & unique self in embryonic fusion form. Cheers Andy and thank you Beat Club!
Describing Johnny Mac here as being "aloof" is funny. This young british guy was very very shy. Well, this could give the impression of being aloof. I'm quite sure he wasn't.
Andy, look for the song "one word" by Lifetime... I dont think it is in either of the studio releases, it was included in a compilation released in 1975 (but recorded likely in 1970). One word was later broken up and recorded into two songs in Mahavishnu Orchestra’s Birds of Fire album. The first part became “Resolution” and a following section was used in the song “One Word” in Birds of Fire....
Incredible find for sure !
Thanks for sharing.
Insightful video, I always found it frustrating why no record company would sign a group with a jazz legend, a famous rockstar and one of the most exiting guitarists in years.
Brilliant. Another one of my fave vids of yours because it felt personal. I love that it messed with your understandings of things, but always,( in the absence of anyone else I find as compelling), love that you update your historical understanding of the genre,( I’m willing to bet you’re pretty on the mark when it comes to understanding the history of music, specifically during the recording years).
From my own perspective I’m a little freaked out that Jack Bruce was so significant as a bass player ,( although I always found Rick Laird a little uninspiring…. Despite being presumably light years beyond my technical ability), but then heard ‘Chris Spedding’ and just thought … Britain is a weird place lol …. Bill Nelson came from Yorkshire as well …. That county and guitarists back then 😮😮
Birds of Fire - Mahavishnu Orchestra - every human being listening created lyrics in the head space between their headphones
Jack Bruce also played on Hot Rats...
Thanks for making me aware of this footage..This rocks..
I definitely wish this lineup would’ve stayed together a bit longer with J.Bruce on vocals ...
I definitely see your point regarding J.Wetton era Crimson
Jack Bruce was on Apostrophe, not Hot Rats…
Excellent analysis!
Unbelievable!! Amazing! Love it.
Incredible footage!
Aside from the scant official recordings (four tracks, I think) of this 4-piece version of the group, there's only two poorly recorded bootlegs; one from a performance at City Hall, Newcastle on 6th Nov '70 and another of 3 sets played at Ungano's, New York 28-29th July '70. The set lists confirm that McLaughlin is providing proto versions of Mahavishnu & Devotion tunes alongside a couple of Bruce compositions and the rest is stuff from Emergency! and Turn It Over, aside from Two Worlds and Lonesome Wells (that emerged on the later Ego sessions)...
e.g. Newcastle: 1) Meeting of the Spirits (opening chords only)/Fanfare/Dragon Song, 2) Letter of Thanks, 3) Noonward Transformation, 4) Lonesome Wells 5) Smiles & Grins/Devotion/Dance of Maya, 6) Two Worlds, 7) Vuelta Abajo, 8) One Word, 9) Vuelta Abajo (reprise).
There's mention in the comments of the Beat Club footage of a full 30 minutes of the band, and to expect more to emerge on their channel soon.
Yeah, it's amazing because the sound and video quality is so good !
Excellent. Thanks for this.
My pleasure!
In your excitement (just as I was, this morning when I saw the clip, and watched it, listened to it 5 times over and over again!) you seem to have forgotten that Lifetime's recording contract was with Verve, recording in May 1969 for Emergency.. and July 1970 for Turn it Over John was to record both Devotion(Feb 1970) and later My Goal's Beyond(March 1971) both of which were with that rip-off merchant in the temple.. Alan Douglas Rubenstein.. So any Columbia contract only 'appeared' after Miles' conversation with John which was on the same night as the last night of Cellar Door Live Album(19th Dec 1970) when he told him to get a lawyer first(!).. Two weeks after the first Mahavishnu gig in July 1971 they got their record deal(well John did!)
I have often pondered on this whole subject because Tony was very much the instigateur of all of this and yet he was he one who was 'left behind' commercially.. I do not agree that he was a complete novice as a composer, just listen to his first two albums Lifetime (1965) and Spring(1965 too) and read the liner notes on Herbie Hancock's on either My point of View or Inventions & Dimensions where he states Tony's concepts as being highly influential in his writing.. Granted Tony, just as everyone else had a whole development to come in the future, but he was a self-assured young man who had clear ideas earlier than Lifetime's short life. His desire to study Composition was simply a natural extension of his curiosity of wanting to write other than Jazz..
I am thrilled by the release of the crumbs we have been served.. There are apparently more minutes to come.. Thanks for your enthusiasm for this music..! PS: Lifetime have given me more aural orgaisms than The Mahavishnu Orchestra..! but I love them all..
In chapter 11 of the book, "Bathed in Lightning" on John Mclaughlin, Tony Williams Lifetime made a test recording for their music for Al Kooper at Columbia Records, and John said that they failed the audition. This was right after John arrived in Harlem. It almost happened.
@@flame-sky7148what was the reason they failed the audition? They just didn’t think the music was up to snuff? Did Al Kooper decide that?
@@nikolademitri731 I don't know, in the book it's stated, "Seemingly the next day the Tony Williams Lifetime made a test recording of their newly forged ‘strange, manic music’ for Al Kooper at Columbia Records, the label for which Miles Davis recorded. As John later conceded with a smile, ‘We failed the audition.’
All I know is that had they been able to make the record with CBS, Emergency and Turn it Over would have sounded better. Also probably Devotion too, John wasn't happy with how either of those records were recorded. Emergency was not recorded with the professionalism as Columbia would have done. It's unfortunate, because Tony Williams was already recording with Miles from his second great quintet and the In A Silent Way record the same year Emergency came out.
@esmondbarros I am with you in what you are doing above. HH also states that TW introduced him to Stockhausen and Cage.
In the marketing process of a future (jazz) rock star, it was not intended in 1970 to assign this role to a black man. That was to TW's disadvantage and JMcL's advantage. Joe Chambers comments on this in an interview and also states that this fact has made TW sick. (Interview can be found somewhere here on yout.)
I do agree with you on Tony William's compositional skills, the young man did compose Pee Wee and Hand Jive with the second great quintet of Miles Davis. Including those Blue Note records that you mentioned that he made at 19 and 20 years of age. I guess Tony just want to grow as a musician and composer later on.
Great insights!
This is an amazing find. I saw this very band at the Birmingham Palladium in suburban Detroit, MI in 1970, with the Mecki-Mark Men opening for them. As I wrote elsewhere, I had never heard of John McLaughlin and did not know what to expect from the skinny short-haired man on guitar- until he began playing. And the band was loud, really and truly loud, and Tony Williams was by far the greatest drummer I had ever seen. I went because of Jack Bruce, but fell in love with all 4 musicians and shortly after bought that first TWL double LP, with its phenomenal intensity- which I still listen to to this day. This find is simply incredible! This was, btw, the quartet, not the trio.
The concert poster- which announces the band as the Tony Williams Life Story- also says the Rationals opened, but that is not my memory. It was April 24 and 25 of 1970.
Just a few weeks i was in awe to hear a version of "One Word" with Jack Bruce singin with Liftime so this is a very important footage.
I was just thinking about the Sailors' Tales box set by King Crimson, which I think is very similar to what the Lifetime quartet might have gone on to do, it's very jazz rock. Then you mentioned Fripp and I see we're on the same page.
Thanks. I saw that footage and was fascinated by the singing on dance of Maya. I am also fascinated about the singing on „one word“ on a lifetime record, which has two parts, one becoming the climax part of one word from birds of fire and the other one becoming Resolution from the same album. I like, how the ideas have different weights on both albums. On birds of fires One word, the part appears only some times, on lifetime it is repeated with vocals in between. Resolution is just a short song without improvisation. In the lifetime version it’s the main vocal part. The „One word“ from birds of fire has so little material from the original one word that it took me some time to realize, why this song is called one word. But still I don’t know, why that footage mentions one word. As you said, once you put vocals on it, it becomes more accessible. But still there would not be many people able and willing to sing with lyrics on those lines and time signatures as Jack Bruce does. This is amazing, and even after more than 50 years, this is very progressive. This makes this footage really fascinating to me. As a young guitar player, I was on a workshop course, and the guy who gave the course had studied the music of John McLaughlin and said that John was a great recycler of his ideas. I am not sure if he meant that in a negative way, on the other hand he suggested us to use recycling in composition, but anyway, he is right. You can hear this also on Extrapolation: binky‘s beam becoming celestial terrestrial commuters: same theme Melody, same time pattern, different harmony progression and speed. Arjen‘s bag was also released as Follow your heart on a Joe Farrell album or on my goal‘s beyond. Just wondering why the names were changing.
This is awesome (though sad you couldn’t show it here). I do quite enjoy the theorizing you put into it on what could have been, and I love the brief history of Tony Williams too.
I must admit, I’ve put a lot less time into his albums, to the point I can’t honestly say I’m very familiar outside of sampling his most popular albums. Of the post-Miles musicians who got me into jazz (literally, musicians from his albums are how I branched out into jazz, starting in my teens with those who played on Kind of Blue), Tony Williams is one who I always heard was great, and I liked what I heard, but just never explored enough.. Perhaps this will be the catalyst for my expanding my horizons with more Lifetime, etc..
Have a listen to Carla Bley's album(s) 'Escalator Over The Hill'
Very good insights! thanks.
OMG.....just ordered the new Steven Wilson album....The Harmony Codex!!!!!!
Carlos Santana and Buddy Miles also did Marbles on their 1972 Album. As we know, Marbles was from from the Devotion LP. I think your assessment of Miles and Tony grappling for John and trying to break through is right on point. And you are correct, Tony loved Cream and Hendrix, and it just so happened that Jack Bruce was available after the end of Cream to include him in Lifetime. I honestly think there was another British Invasion that included Mclaughlin, Holdsworth, Paige, Beck, Hendrix (American) etc. that included a higher level of musicianship.
Not to forget that Jack Bruce had previously played with McLaughlin in the Graham Bond Organisation, as well as making his own jazz album "Things We Like" with McLaughlin, Jon Hiseman and Dick Heckstall Smith in 1968 during the time he was in Cream.
Yea Ginger Baker was in that GBO group. That dude had two thirds of Cream and half of Lifetime.
Great. Wished I’d seen this band back in the day. I did see the great Larry Young, Khalid Yasin, a couple years later with Blood Ulmer, Cedric Lawson, and Sonny Fortune. That was pretty wild. Blood Ulmer is one fabulous musician. Saw Tony finally in the mid 80’s around the time of Foreign Affairs with Wallace Roney and Mulgrew Miller in a straight ahead jazz thing. What impeccable musicianship. What a vibe he had.
You lucky Guy! Blood once told me, that he was proud to be on a Larry Young Record, eventhough in the Case of Larry Young there was no real need for a Guitarplayer.
Blood was not to much into a lot of Organplayers eventhough he made his first Bread in Organ Bands.
@@erikheddergott5514 Ulmer was at Big Ears last spring with the drummer Calvin Watson and at age 82 he brought it. Charles Lloyd (age 85) performed at the festival as well and the elders acquitted themselves admirably.
@@erikheddergott5514 He was at Big Ears this past spring with Calvin Weston on drums. At 82 Ulmer still brings it. Charles Lloyd was there as well and the elders acquitted themselves admirably.
@@richardthurston2171 I listened to a bit of Jazz, but Ulmer took me in.
The Guy is Jazz, he is Rock, he is Funk and sometimes Psychedelic Country. One of the dozen and one Musicians that formed my listening.
@@erikheddergott5514 Another of the thirteen?
Thanks
Welcome
Humm @@AndyEdwardsDrummer
I like/subscribe to The Beat Club (not thrilled with what they did to your vid. Love the doggie, though).
I kinda linked The Beat Club to The Old Grey Whistle Test. Pop, Rock, and some "outside the box" stuff.
Top Of The Pops, to me...sorta like American Bandstand. TOTP was better, I think.
Jack Bruce is phenomenal in this
Hi Andy,
I may have mentioned I am a huge Auger fan and Dragon Song appeared on the album Brian Auger’s Oblivion Express. He also did a killer live version of it in 1978 with Billy Cobham and Ronnie Montrose tearing it up!
The band 'Good God' did a great version of Dragon Song too. (check out 'King Kong' on that album too)
Also to add to the complex web of connections: Mclaughlin played with Jack Bruce (and Ginger Baker) earlier in the 60's and according to JB he included JM on his album,
'Things we like' so he could have some money to buy his plane ticket to America. So John and Jack were very tight and his inclusion was seamless.
And as well as the three proto Mahavishnu tunes mentioned here There was also the vocal 'Resolution/One Word that lifetime did.
Edit. Not forgetting Terje Rypdal recorded a cover of Devotion.
Correct John Mclaughlin, Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker were in the Graham Bond Organization in the 60's and they were playing traditional jazz. Jack Bruce was playing upright bass so Andy is correct in that he could have handled jazz compositions.
And I've heard a bootleg (very poorly recorded but very fiery) of Terje Rypdal's Odyssey band playing "Meeting of the Spirits" at a live club gig.
Are you referring to the Graham Bond Organisation? (Graham Bond, Ginger Baker, Jack Bruce and John McLaughlin from around 1963).
Yep , the GBO even have an audio recording on the tube, it sounds pretty good. All of the other musicians who he had in his band surpassed Mr. Bond. But he was underrated himself.
@@dimsylsodium1 apparently ginger baker hated John, no surprise really
Interesting view on this, thank you Andy!
The use of organ on Harmony Row (played by Jack Bruce) has its origin in the Lietime lineup…I guess
Sure sounds like it!
i love watching ur videos
I wonder if Virgil Donati's quartets were influenced by this one. Same instruments.
Polydor took over James Brown from King Records around 69/70 and they also took over Return to Forever from ECM, whereas Herbie Hancock was taken over by Warner Brother. But eventhough Polydor wanted to have a Stake in Jazzrock Fusion, they had not the Guys to Record it properly.
I do not think it was a Problem of financial Backing, coz Polydor really went for that Stuff too.
The 1971 Lifetime Band that played the Montreux Jazz Festival with 2 additional Percussionist was amazing as can be seen on CZcams.
The 2 Lifetime Records on Polydor after John McLaughlin was gone show, what the Problem might have been: Tony Williams wanted to show to big a Variety of Ideas per Record then what was good for „Airplay“ in the rising „FM“ Radioscene.
CBS and Miles Davis I think didn‘t believe that a Soundtrack could sell. So they followed Bitches Brew with the Electric Free Jazz of the Filmore East Double Album instead of the Funk Rock Monster Record Jack Johnson. For my Money the greatest Jazzrock Album of the „Miles Davis“ Circle.
History is made of lots of different stories
Tony Wiliams was a thumbs down decision
@@narosgmbh5916 The German Producer, Festival Programmer and Jazz Historien Joachim Ernst Berendt saw Ego Problems in the unfoldings of the „Game“.
Obviously some Promoters put more Emphasis on Jack Bruce than the Rest of the Band, since back then he was the Superstar of the Four.
Polydor being a German Company allowed the „Mister Jazz“ of the German Scene some insight into the Dynamics.
Tony Williams was also the youngest of the four Musicians and the two Englishmen were „easier“ to understand then the „Cryptic“ African American.
The Choice of Ted Dunbar as knew Guitarplayer was a concious Move away from Rock, whereas the inclusion of „Tequila“ as Singer was not very well received.
As much as I am ready to point to Racism in the Rockbusiness, in this Case I think the Exploratory Mind of the Young Band Leader went into similar Directions as the Mwandishi Herbie Hancock, the first two Weather Reports and the first two Return Forever. Also Jack deJohnette‘s Compost moved away from the Path Miles Davis showed with Jack Johnson. The only one, together with Billy Cobham to take Jack Johnson further on the „Rock Guitar Trail“ was John McLaughlin.
Miles with his Twin Guitar Band took up again and Chick Correa, first with Bill Connors and then with Al diMeola followed John McLaughlin.
Herbie Hancock and Joe Zawinul never really embraced the Rock Guitar, despite the short Time of Blackbyrd McKnight in the Headhunters.
Billy Cobham allowed some Rock Guitars in his Band.
Larry Coryell as Guitar Bandleader was the Pathlayer for John McLaughlin, but as far as I know he had some serious Drinking Issues which interrupted his Career severly.
My Facit: Tony Williams was to much into branching out, to take Care of his original Concept.
@@erikheddergott5514 I am with you too.
From the perspective on TW. First the idea was a classical jazz piano trio but electric and rock. First mistake to use a guitarist for such a formation. Then he had the idea that he need a singer, because every famous group need a singing frontpower. Second mistake.
And to have jack bruce in your band is also a mistake. They are not calculateable for every business.
His conceptual idea was great.I had 1970 the age to be prepared for jazz. And i used the time to go on one side backward, discovering the TW of the sixtiest. He is the drummer named Anthony Williams on two of the greatest 60s. records . On the other side I run forward with Jazz and had no time for jazzrock and fusion. (But i like it)
@@narosgmbh5916 And then his own singing, which was so far away from anything that sounded like Rock. It is the Stuff i skip on CD. Eventhough I grew more tolerant with age.
I was one of the lucky ones, to see the Tony Williams Quintet at the Jazz Cafe back in 1991. At that gig, he mentioned plans he had back in 1970 to go into the recording studio with Jack Bruce and Jimi Hendrix, which got a huge cheer! Obviously sadly never happened.
Perhaps for Andy Tony didn't do a lot, but he was particpating in a lot of interesting music, doing live shows with the likes of Jan Hammer, Carlos Santana, Winton Marsalis.
I understood he intended to reform the Lifetime Band in 1997. That would have been interesting. I mentioned Fire Merchants before with John Goodsall, Doug Lunn and Toss Panos in the 1990s playing updated rock fusion, Tony Williams would have done something of similar quality.
Oh yes, saw the Beat Club footage four weeks ago, glad it made it on CZcams.
Pure fire
This is very nice footage. I had a bootleg 8- track tape I bought in a record/" Head Shop" around 1971 of Jimi Hendrix & Larry Young. Does anyone know that it still exists? I lost mine many years ago. Didn't Miles have another tune called "Go ahead John"?
Search for “Nine to the Universe”
Fusion Days
The music that very nearly died
And then did. From McLaughlin to Holdsworth.
For a while in the early seventies
McLaughlin/Santana made history with two lead guitars, two bassists and a wall of percussion. Where are those live recordings?
I asked Chic Corea years later, where are all the live Return to Forever shows,
He told me the record companies hold all of it and unreleased to this day, let alone in 1986 when I spoke with him with the Electric Band.
It seems there may be a lot of UN released Fusion music from the 1970's.
Thank God we have JM and his phenomenal out put. Plus my favorite
Frank Zappa and his massive library.
First, Miles did not lose out on anything, that statement is wrong. As to jazz rock fusion, Jimi Hendrix's 1968 Electric Lady Land introduces us to fusion with the song Voodoo Chile ( an extended rock/blues/ jazz jam) with Steve Winwood on keyboards, Jack Casady on bass and Mitch Mitchell on drums. Jeff Beck's LP "Truth" (with Rod Steward) to me is a very early intro to fusion also, though not as clearly defined fusion as his 1976 production of "Wired", with Jan hammer and Narada Michael Walden. As to the Tony Williams Lifetime 1970 band, they were a great trail blazing fusion band that were a year or two ahead of their time. Their 1969 concert opening for the rock band The Who in Boston was not received well and they performed extremely well. It was not until a few years later when The Mahavishnu Orchestra, Weather Report and Chick Corea and Return to Forever could open for Groups like Emerson Lake and Palmer, Yes, Traffic and Frank Zappa that Jazz/Rock fusion bands met with a small window of big success.
Miles lost out on having Larry Young, Tony Williams and John McLaughlin in his band. And these guys were trail blazers. I have covered the history of Jazz Rock here on this channel in far more detail than you have described and your take is essentially wrong. what Hendrix was doing came out of what Cream were doing which have their roots back to the Graham Bond band, which included Jack bruce and John McLaughlin.
In the states there is a line through Don Ellis, Gary Burton, Free Spirits Larry Coryell all before the time scale you describe. So your idea Jimi introduced the world to fusion is completely misguided. And there is the issue of Jazz Rock, and artisticall succesful Jazz Rock. The first true Jazz Rock masterpiece I believe was Electric Bath by Don Ellis recorded and released in 1967.
As to "my take on jazz Rock being essentially wrong" I respectfully disagree. I agree that The Graham Bond Organisation including Jack Bruce, John McLaughlin, Ginger Baker, Jon Hiseman and others were important to the blues, jazz and R&B foundation in England in the early 60s after many defected from Blues Incorporated. I own the LP and CD "Graham Bond Solid Bond" and "Graham Bond Live at Klooks Kleek" "Person To Person Blues." I also followed guitarist Jeff Beck playing in the Yardbirds, and Guitarst Eric Clapton's movement through the Yardbirds and John Mayall and the Blues Breakers before he formed Cream with Ginger and Jack. I understand the history here and I clearly see Cream as a very successful innovative loud (very loud) electric blues and rock band. The Jimi Hendrix Experience was different; guitarists Eric Clapton and Jeff Beck knew it and commented on this assessment often.
In the States, guitarist Larry Coryell was there early, yes, I own his wife's fusion book and I have seen Larry Coryell's Eleventh House live in concert. As to an impact that was felt, I have to go with Jimi Hendrix's "Electric Lady Land" as one of the key inspirations for Tony Williams to create his Lifetime bands after leaving Miles. Miles seeking pathways into jazz/rock fusion wanted to record with Hendrix during this period but things didn't t work out. Guitarist John McLaughlin turned out to be a perfect selection for his early fusion LPs; "In A Silent Way", "Bitches Brew", and later "Jack Johnson". For me, John McLaughlin's LP Devotion is the key fusion masterpiece produced by Alan Douglas (who also produced Jimi Hendrix and reed player Eric Dolphy) with keyboardist Larry Young (present on Miles Davis' Bitches Brew) and two Hendrix recording mates, bassist Billy Rich and drummer Buddy Miles. During the recording of the LP Devotion, Buddy Miles was touring with Jimi Hendrix in The Band of Gypsys. I will make a subjective statement in saying the early Tony Williams Lifetime band and John's Devotion LP were strongly influenced by the music of Jimi Hendrix.
I've watched the unexpurgated version of this vid on Patreon, and it's a really interesting visit to the Infinite Worlds of Maybe. Where indeed would music have gone if the big money'd been behind Lifetime?
I'm now going to dedicate what's left of my nostalgic-boomer life to two projects:
1.) I'm going to check out those later albums in Williams' career you name-check.
2.) I'm going to travel the multiverse till I find that parallel where Lifetime are bigger than Weather Report...
☝️😎
P. S. Jack Bruce's Harmony Row ROOLS!!
A most enjoyable & insightful analysis...😊 looks like Tony Williams got the s**t end of the stick....I say this because everyone's individual musical chops & compositions seemed to gell & everyone seems to go their own way...thanks! Most unfortunate that these people are so short-sighted not allowing you to show the very brief clip...I would have gone to check them out, something you made possible, as I had no idea of this new find...it is not as if you are showing all if it...wanting to get paid just shows how greedy & petty some of these people can be....😡 PS...You also led me to Arcana...thanks again! 😊
Beat Club took down awesome Rory Gallagher footage from CZcams that were great performances when he appeared...its very irritating. Massive YT blockers
The version of Lifetime Turn it Over that Bill Laswell worked on is a much improved beast... caused a seismic shift in how I viewed the output of the 1st generation of Lifetime. Glad to see Good God get mentioned. Would also like to see the Les DeMerle (1968) and James Vincent Culmination get checked out on this channel.
How do you obtain the Laswell version of "Turn It Over" (Redux)...Seems difficult indeed.
Ooo just came across this,( my notifications are firing off like muthafuckas tonight).
This should be good … he’s a drummer ….. and he’s a drummer.
This will be musically very personal I feel. Let’s gooooo !!!!
Not arrogance. It was Ego! 😎
Actually, Soft Machine played suites live in 1968 as well. I don't know if they picked that up from Miles or Miles grabbed it from them or if they arrived at it independently of each other. But Soft Machine sets were, as a friend of mine said, like one long song. I think SM's role in developing fusion is remarkably overlooked.
For SM it was purely pragmatic at first. According to Wyatt, they found that when they ventured outside of London in the early days, audiences weren't very receptive to what they were doing. Continuous sound, running all their songs together, was their way of dealing with the hostility they experienced, which then developed into a conscious style.
@@gidouille Exactly, it was a way to avoid being booed at.
Interestingly Williams played with two great guitarists from Yorkshire, pity he didn’t collaborate with the greatest of them all
Arcarna the testimony LP or should I say CD. I only heard it once ( a track) of BBC R3 Mixing it. I made a note in my then address book. Now we have the internet I better get it Correction. It was Arcana The Last Wave which I heard.
Just do a quick search here on YT. "Tony Williams Arcana". You'll find 2 complete albums. Then you can delete your note. Have fun listening. Two great albums. 😉
Too bad that band didn't record just one more album. It would have been fire. Before Larry Young joined with Tony he revolutionized the organ trio format, playing incredible post bop with a cooler sound than the normal chitlins circuit bands from that genre. With Tony he brought sounds out of that Hammond never heard before. Right now John McLaughlin is having a hell of a moment, touring North America playing electric guitar with the wonderful new incarnation of Shakti.
You're a very good student. Your comments mirror many things I experience from Tony Williams. BELIEVE IT was right on time. WILDERNESS is a unique, underrated recording. YOUNG AT HEART is a SUPREME MASTERCLASS of jazz drumming. All of his jazz wizardry and musicality is displayed on this recording. Extremely underrated. Played on DW drums. Recording and acoustics A + plus. I heard Tony almost played with Jimi Hendrix. Is this True? I also heard, Tony sat in for Elvin and played with Coltrane. Is this true? I think I received my PhD listening to ARCANA. Finally, the highest, most accurate description I have for Tony Williams: If Jimi Hendrix was a jazz drummer = Tony (The Tiger) Williams. #creativity #Hihats #cymbals. PEACE.
They just released a new video by them. A few days ago.
I have been watching
🌠I LOVE THE "FRED" SONG...
I don't think that Fripp's choice of John Wetton had anything to do with Jack Bruce's presence in Lifetime (although Wetton was clearly influenced by Jack Bruce and, according to Wetton's widow, Wetton called Bruce "the guv'nor". You can hear Bruce's influence on Wetton as far back as the sole Mogul Thrash album. I loved Wetton, but he never quite equalled Bruce in terms of melodic invention.
King Crimson was going through a bad spell before LTIA . The group wanted to move more towards funk (as can be heard on Earthbound) and Wetton wanted Wetton in the band then as an ally against the other members. Wetton was with Family and wasn't interested in getting into a power struggle in the band. Fripp was also involved in free jazz (he wanted Keith Tippett in King Crimson and played with Centipede, for instance) and was more interested in a fusion of European free jazz (like Han Bennink, for instance) and added Jamie Muir to "loosen up" the rather stiff approach of Bruford. Bruford was able to "loosen up" a bit, Bruford loved Cobham, but one reason I think KC disbanded was becoming a bit less of Fripp's vision and more of Wetton and Bruford. So Fripp and MO parallels were more of a reflection of where music was going at the time (until fusion started getting more standardized). (The Brian Auger cover of Dragon Song was on the very first Oblivion Express album; Auger had been working, unheralded, on fusion before Davis, Williams, etc and his version of Dragon Song was far more coherent than the original McLaughlin version, in my opinion.)
I always had the suspicion, by the way, that Davis encouraged McLaughlin to form his own band because he was a bit pissed that Williams beat Davis to the punch and had a more vital, coherent band than Davis did. Also, I think taking a sample of footage from the Beat Club as representative of where Tony Williams was going is a bit of a logical leap. They probably picked material that they thought the audience could connect with, and that featured Jack singing as opposed to Tony singing.
I still think we would have had a richer fusion experience if the original Lifetime stayed together.
By the way, the Lifetime album with Dunbar is really one of my favorites. Williams singing improved and Young's organ work shimmers.
Dunbar is just less aggressive than McLaughlin. It sounds like the only one of the three initial albums they took time to produce. I also liked the Emergency! album because it has a rougher more spontaneous quality to it. I lived through Earthbound and countless Byg albums that didn't sound as well recorded! And I still liked the music.
You might want to cover Wolfgang Dauner at some point and the Fourth Way, as they were also covering fusion in a unique way before it became stereotyped.
Just my thoughts...
I thought by the plug you showed that you were going to show some examples of that band not just talk
where can I see this?
I have the disagree with you on that second album that second album was powerful. I loved it because it was just really chaotic and very punk rock in that sense, too. Tony wasn't a Hendrix and the MC5. And you hear it on that second album a lot. Also I remember getting some kind of retrospective with Jack dJanet talking about Tony .dance of the maya had words .. but another song on that retro was one song that had singing was 1 word you hear how john used those spnga as instrumentals later on Mahavishnu albums So that's interesting that you mention that. turn it over as one of my favorite albums and I love Jack Bruce's playing. He didn't ruin. Any thing it was a sound that Tony wanted to go for. Jack Dejanet also mentioned the fact that Tony was the first to really shoot for more playing rock and roll before even Miles did( Miles davis wasnt really hipped to it at that time when Tony left to do that Tony never gets the shine for that..... I'm glad you also made the same parallel that I did to 7374 King Crimson lifetime did it F. Ew years before them heavy based tone dark compositions, chaotic intervals and everything. And that's my favorite. of King Crimson actually. rest. In peace, Tony Williams rest in peace. Jack bruce rest in peace larry young a k a Khalid yasin. Memory eternal 🙏🏾
Cute dog anyway. I LOVE... dogs
You seem to forget Greg Lake played bass and sang in KC, before Lifetime and before Wetton. So Crimson influenced Lifetime, not, as you suggest, vice/versa
Thanks for your insights. I disagree with your speculations that Lifetime did not fit into the concept of this TV Show and for that the performance was aborted. Yes, Beat Club started as a pop show similar to Top of the pops. But from 1969 the face of the show changed drastically. While it was previously a show with pop and beat music, the show became increasingly progressive. People moved away from the hit parade culture and bands played life more and more often; playback soon ceased to exist. Also remarkable was director Michael Leckebusch's television adaptation of the music, which was accompanied by the use of visual effects to the limit of the technical possibilities at the time. In the future, progressive and jazz rock bands should dominate the scene. Colosseum, Soft Machine, Curved Air or Captain Beefheart to name just a few names, now performed live in the beat club. The ideal environment for Lifetime. For that the reason to abort Lifetimes performance must be another. Maybe that they acted arrogantly and rudely as Uschi Nerke announced. However, Beat Club was no longer the mass taste on a Saturday afternoon, the Beat Club finally closed in December 1972 and was replaced by the mainstream pop and disco show “Musikladen”.
Quartet ?
What we are seeing in the clip is the beginnings of Mahavishnu with Tony starting to use John’s compositions! Why don’t you watch John’s interviews where he explains what happens rather than make up your own history!
John has said in interviews he went with Tony, not Miles, becuase there was the opportunity to bring his compositions in. a good third of the compositions on Emergency are JM's. How you can say we are seeing Tony starting to use John's compositions here is ludicrous.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummerThe interviews I’ve seen with John he says he was in both bands at the same time but Miles was not open to using his compositions but Tony was. At the start of Lifetime or was Tony’s compositions by this time a lot of John’s were coming in not just The Dance of Maya. They played many of the tunes that would turn up on Inner Mounting Flame. That’s why I said it the seedlings of what became Mahavishnu started with this group! I’ve heard John say it on multiple occasions! John says that he started his own group because Miles told him it was time.
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer You are incorrect if you think he went with John not Miles because he was playing in both! The composition issue came while he was with both! He went to To y first because Jack De Johnette played Tony a tape of John and he invited him to join his band. When he got to the States he joined Miles and played with both!
Thank god Tony didn’t sing on this performance, god love him but he made Ringo sound like Pavarotti
'take me home with you'.....awful
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer I must admit I do like their version of once I loved, Tony’s out of tune warbling works well against Larry young’s organ drone
Also Carlos Santana covered the song marbles from devotion on his live album with buddy miles
Sigh I understanding what you are saying BUT Tony Williams made 2 albums before Jack and John left and you completely leave that out ... Those albums are phenomenal ... What I want to know this is Tony Williams band ... How did he let John and Jack bring in they're own stuff when they already had AWESOME STUFF with EMERGENCY AND TURN IT OVER where are those records do you mention those ??????????? Was that stuff not good enough ?????????????????????????????
Thumbs up etc but you have a strange aversion to mentioning the great Jack Bruce. But sod Beat Club in any case.
Did you watch all the video?
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer No I didn't, to be honest. Apologies, as presumably you did talk about Jack Bruce! I spoke in haste.
I think you mean quartet.
deliberate, watch the whole video
@@AndyEdwardsDrummer yes. Thank you. Excellent commentary. In New York, at the time, we teenagers found out that Lifetime was playing in a third rate “psychedelic dungeon” somewhere in Brooklyn. Most of us were rabid Jack Bruce fans and a few were even familiar with John McLaughlin. Our neighborhood essentially bought out the show. As we were at eating g to organize transportation- the gig cancelled, literally less than an hour before it’s scheduled start time. We were all quite devastated. Years later Jack said in an interview that Tony’s management had no understanding of how and where to book them which lead to the band’s demise. I have no doubt that’s true. When I think of all the jazz venues in NYC at that time, and that they wound up in the Electric Banana……. Jack, alone, could have filled a decent sized theater, at that time, let alone The BLue Note, Village Vanguard! Etc etc . Anyway, thanks again for your attention and excellent commentary on this group and especially this footage.
It's not particularly great. Bruce's song doesn't really suit Lifetime's gestaldt. Bruce's 'Songs for a Tailor' is a much better setting. Richard William's blog is a decent summary of this clip. Beat Club's Magic Band film is more of the real deal.
THAT is NOT sad music...